3 New Witnesses, Whistleblower Speaks Again, Major Skywatcher Changes

Hi everyone, and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. My name is Andy, and this is your UFO news update for, we're going to call it the end of August 2025, as we move into September 2025. We're very much on the road to the UAP hearing on the 9th of September, but there is a lot of news to cover across this show. Thank you in advance to everyone who has played their part and got in touch. You'll hear your questions and thoughts as we go across the show. If you want to get involved, make sure you email the usual email address. I'll give you those at the end. They are in the description for the podcast too, or use the website contact form. Anyway, listen, here's the latest UFO, UAP news, and what it means for a really interesting time in the UFO topic. And I suppose if you want to call it the top story as such, we have the hearing, like I say, the UFO hearing, the UAP hearing, whatever you want to call it, now confirmed for the 9th of September 2025. And we know who our three witnesses are. Well, we don't know their names or who exactly, but we know the what. So we know we have a former U.S. Air Force veteran who can speak on up to five UAP incidents from his time in the service. We have a U.S. Navy officer who witnessed UAP events firsthand and another U.S. Air Force officer with firsthand encounters. So like I say, no names previously given. What we've had previously, folks, just to rewind a little bit, are some hearings in 2022, 2023, and 2024. So 2022, we had senior DOD officials, Moultrie and Bray, you know, they talked about institutional disclosures. It was very cautious, very little firsthand reporting. I believe that was the hearing that had the clusterfuck with the VLC media player that looked completely amateur. And I remember, and you may remember if you watched it, Moultrie and Bray spent a lot of time looking at each other, doing the, I'm not too familiar with that. Are you almost playing dumb? And do you know what? Maybe they were guilty by association. Maybe they didn't know and ignorance is bliss. So they could deny from a plausible point of view. But that was the first kind of hearing we had. 2023, it was David Grush. That was the big one. Of course, with a shout out to David Fravor and Ryan Graves. You've got pilots and a former intelligence official. Now, Grush was the name. Grush is the one that we're still reeling from in a lot of different ways. Claims of crash recoveries, pilot sightings, safety concerns, biologics, and a really interesting line of questioning from folks like Tim Burchett, Anna Paulina Luna, Representative Eric Burleson, and others, which again was the big one for me. And I think for some of you listening or watching this, I'm guessing you would agree. And I'd love to hear folks on that. And I'm going to ask you a question in just a second. Then, of course, 2024, we had a mix of military, scientific, insiders, journalists, and a NASA official. And that was, of course, Mike Gold from NASA. We had Michael Schellenberger, who was the journalist presenting the Immaculate Constellation document. Strangely, seemed to be a bit of a one and done. And Luis Elizondo, of course, and we had Timothy Gallaudet, former Rear Admiral, Timothy Gallaudet, as part of that. There was a broader scope, broader conversation. Again, safety risks came up, secret programs, insider testimony, scientific policy. It fell flat for me. And I think at the time, I remember speaking with Dan, who hopefully we'll get back on. We spoke after those breakdowns around it, not being a nothing burger, but I think we were mixed. I remember at the time, and I'll probably have to go back and watch it, but I was quite impressed with Nancy Mace, who, within hours of impressing me, was selling T-shirts and playing down the topic. And I don't know what happened there. It was such a strange, strange hearing. It really was. And we had the questions around, you know, Christ, was it not something about pigeons being cameras or whatever it was? Who knows? But yeah, that was a really, really weird hearing for me. And it definitely fell flat. I don't know what happened there. I still get the feeling there were meant to be folks there who didn't end up being able to testify. Of course, the big takeaway was the Immaculate Constellation document. And we'll get to some Matthew Brown, who is the author of said document news, in a few moments. So in 2025, how does this hearing differ? Well, we're expected to have all first-hand military witnesses focusing on direct experiences. Yeah, that could mean a whole range of things, though. Are we going to get the real first-hand, I touched a craft? I don't think so. So what I hope we don't get, and it's all up in the air at the moment, I'm going to have Stephen Bassett, actually, on the podcast to discuss the hearings with me in advance to kind of work out what we may or may not get. But I hope we don't get people just retelling their sightings. You know, there were lights that followed us. You know, we've got some data. It needs to be something more. But what that is right now, I don't know. I like the idea that you go in with tempered expectations, proceed with caution. You can't be let down too much if you do that. And I think that's probably true of a lot of things in life. But yeah, I'm excited for the hearing on like a low-level basis. And then what comes from it could be really interesting as well. Ross Coulter on his News Nation podcast recently said, you know, the hearings publicly are a dog and pony show, which is more than likely correct. However, that's true of anyone with sources that, you know, you can't share everything you know to a certain extent, that people are going to stand up and there's only so much they can say publicly. And that's true. However, there are things they can say publicly that I don't think are said. And we know that with things like the gimbal videos not getting the full length declassifications of different things. So yeah, I'd love to know people's thoughts on this one. Are you excited or not for the hearing? I know I discussed that last week. But as things tumble towards the actual date on the 9th of September, I wonder if you get a little bit more excited for it. But yeah, we shall see. Something to move on to another story that is tied in very much is an update on the Age of Disclosure documentary. The much maligned, I think at this point, Age of Disclosure documentary from Dan Farah, producer of multiple features, including Steven Spielberg's Ready Player One was the big one I know of. Of course, this documentary has a lot of talking heads. I won't go back over all that. However, it's not going to be a screening for the public that's going to be happening reported from UAP James, who I love checking out online. And I recommend if you are on social media at UAP James, the Age of Disclosure will be shown to Congress in two private screenings as voting begins on the UAP Disclosure Act. And Danny Sheehan has confirmed the Senate will be shown the film the week of September the 8th and Representative Andre Carson will have a showing for the House on the week of September 15. That is according to Danny Sheehan, who I imagine would be in the know with that. What to look out for, folks, comments and views from those who get to see it. And I don't want to be a buzzkill on this one. However, the documentary has been seen. We know it got its premiere, a couple of screenings at the South by Southwest Film Festival back earlier this year in March and April. Go back and check out the episodes I'd done at the time with Chase Kelly, who was attending the premiere in person, who discussed it with me, including other listeners who had attended. The feedback was it's good, but not groundbreaking. I think if you want to see it as groundbreaking, it would have to be from that point of view that you've got some really high ranking politicians and officials discussing something rather incredible. However, there are no huge claims. There are no clips that we haven't seen before being used. It's very dry and it has a lot of talking heads. So, yeah, on that, I think a really good question. Unidentified, who is a wonderful over on the Patreon channel, said, Andy, the Age of Disclosure will get a private screening for the US Senate and, if I understand correctly, Congress. Yes, these screenings will happen as the politicians vote on whether to include the UEP Disclosure Act in this year's NDAA. Part of me wonders if this was the true purpose of creating the documentary. The reasons we have not seen a public release are there is no urgency as the public is not the primary audience. As such, it's appropriate to delay public release until these private screenings take place or maybe until after the NDAA passes should the UEP Disclosure Act be included. What do you think? Good question. I think for me that makes sense in a way. However, I don't then understand why it had its premiere at South by Southwest. That is a place where you get hype, you look for distribution, you network. And if this documentary is largely made for politicians, then it didn't need Dan Farah attached to it. You know, other folks could have done it and it could have been done quietly, but it wasn't. It was made like a documentary made for the public. And I just wonder if they've either and this is purely speculation, folks, I genuinely don't know. And I hope it's not the case. But have they just not had the uptake on it they would want? Again, is it perhaps lacking in footage and stuff to really capture the imagination? I don't see the general public having an appetite for a 90 minute talking head documentary, given a lot of the talking heads. And bear in mind, folks, I've not seen it still are representatives from Congress, the military and whatnot that the general public largely won't care about, especially outside of the United States. These people don't mean a lot to other folks and without the the headline or attention grabbing footage, clips, things like that, maybe even some of the wilder speculation that people may or may not like. Maybe it just doesn't have the reach that they hope and it's going to end up landing on a platform like a Netflix or an Amazon or an Apple TV, but not to the fanfare they would hope and it would perhaps need. So maybe maybe what it is has changed. We've heard the rumors recently, some of us and it was reported a few weeks ago that there's an issue between Luis Elizondo's camp and Dan Farah and the whole acting as an agent and the involvement in the literacy agreement with the book deal. And that because things had changed, they were holding it back. I don't know if any of that's true or not. And I haven't seen any comment or follow up on that. But yeah, for me, I don't know. So I think it's basically they haven't got a distribution deal yet or perhaps they're going to show it. Maybe they have the deal and this is me being positive. Maybe they have the deal and this is going to launch after the hearings. And that's a kind of good way to viral market it, perhaps. Who knows? Again, I'd love to know people's thoughts on that. But it's it's one of those things now, isn't it? This age of disclosure, which is becoming almost lower in the UFO community. But yeah, there we go. Moving on to something that I feel is definitely a more positive sign of things to come, hopefully. Matthew Brown, author of the Immaculate Constellation document, is back. Matthew Brown, who, of course, came forward earlier this year through the Weaponise podcast with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, is back online after a somewhat quiet spell. He started up a Substack blog to share his story. He announced this on Twitter and I'll put the link in the comment comments on the comments for what he said online. I'm just going to read you what he said online announcing this. So it's almost been four months since my interview with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp was released. A lot of questions remain about myself, about the phenomena, about our government and about what the future holds. I do not have all the answers. No single person ever could. But I am committed to sharing what I can. However, the harsh truth is this. To obtain the answers we seek, our system must change. This change has already started. It cannot be stopped. But the pace and final outcome depends on us. I am telling my story here to inspire, to inform and to support the movement. My hope is that we will, in time, take the thoughtful steps necessary to achieve disclosure, restore our constitution and advance our civilisation. He then puts a link to the Substack, which will be in the description, folks. Revealing that which the powerful have concealed, unravelling a century of lies, overturning the tables in the temple. None of this will happen unless we decide to act. Thank you for those who already have. More will come. And, of course, he's got a lot of support in those comments and whatnot. For me, I've reached out to Matthew. I got a little approval salute from him some time ago when I said thank you for what he's done. I'd love to get Matthew on the podcast. Is that likely? I don't know at the moment. But I always ask the question, folks. And maybe if you want to see Matthew on the podcast, his username is sonofabramelin. And I'll put the link in the description. Go and check that out. Maybe give him a nudge if you want to see him on the podcast. But, you know, he's a busy guy with a lot on his plate, I'm sure, with all of this. Definitely check out his blog on his Substack. Part one is a very quick read, and it covers his background, growing up, his career, and the story we know about Immaculate Constellation. In a pretty short form, to be honest. I really like Matthew, and from what we've seen and heard of him, I look forward to seeing part two, which I think is going to go into a little bit more of the murkier detail behind that. Real interesting timing, again, just ahead of the hearing coming out. A lot of folks, I think, hope to hear more or see more from David Grush. I imagine his work is being done quietly in the background in all of this. A question on this particular topic, and you might notice, folks, I'm trying to play with the format on these news updates, which people are enjoying, which is wonderful. And I'm integrating the listener questions during this as well. So David, on the Matthew Brown situation, said, Matthew, coming back to the conversation is a pretty big deal, I think. There are lots of questions he has heard over the past few months, and maybe we get some answers, such as, how can you be sure about what you saw? How can you be sure what you saw was not just war games or a psyop situation like what was in the Wall Street Journal article? Number two, please elaborate on the Matrix comments. Number three, what compelled him to come back now with hearings on the horizon? I'm really curious what he has to say. And yeah, I think we all are, David, on that. For me, there's definitely more to expand on. And I wonder, with Matthew coming forward in this way, with the sub stack, are we going to see him appear back on with Jeremy and George on the Weaponize platform to share that story in a different format? I can't imagine Joe Rogan, again, big platform, wouldn't want to host a Matthew Brown. Jesse Michaels, American Alchemy, you know, Danny Jones Concrete. These are guys with some clout, some money behind them. They have the opportunity, I would hope, to pay these guests for their time and at least compensate, obviously, their travel expenses, all that kind of stuff as well, to get them into a setting. They're comfortable and happy to share their story. And I would love to see them on some of those bigger platforms, as well as the smaller platforms like this. So yeah, thank you to Matthew for coming back forward. And yeah, I think he definitely has more to share. And the way he left the Weaponize podcast, it was almost on a bit of a cliffhanger. And I'd like to see more said. Maybe Matthew is waiting to see what gets said at the hearing to then see how much more he shares of his story. Hmm. On that, something else making headlines is Skywatcher. Now, we're now eight months into the year, almost nine months into the year, folks, depending on when you listen to this. Maybe we're well into the next several years, depending on you're listening to this in the back catalogue. Hello to the future. Skywatcher announced earlier in the year that they would hope to have real results by the end of 2025. However, what may hamper that is one of the founders, James Fowler of the organization, who was known for bringing along and having that dog whistle technology, has moved on from the organization to a new role, the dog whistle. There are two ways, folks, very quickly, that Skywatcher claim to be able to contact or summon these craft or communicate in a way. One, psionically, using a psionic asset. I spoke to James Hodgkins recently, who is one of these psionic assets. They basically psychically channel these craft, try and contact and communicate with them to bring them closer, to study, to collect data. The other was mechanical. Using an object, the dog whistle that we hear, I visualize it as a big box in my head. You flick a switch, it creates a frequency or signal. These objects come close. Apparently, it has a 100% accuracy rate. So here's James's statement anyway. From August 2024 to July 2025, I had the opportunity to serve as a founder and consultant at Skywatcher, where I led field operations supporting the mission of exploring unidentified aerial phenomena, UAP, and advancing air domain awareness. I am stepping away from active involvement with Skywatcher, with my contributions now limited to my foundational work. I am excited to focus on a new venture in aerial intelligence, dedicated to building innovative technology to address complex challenges in this field. I remain proud of my foundational contributions at Skywatcher and wish the team continued success in their future endeavors. He has tagged Skywatcher, Jake Barber, and Gary Nolan. So this, of course, has got a lot of folks talking. There were rumors, and I've got to say, unconfirmed rumors that already have been swirling about NDAs being signed recently. To be fair, it wouldn't surprise me that NDAs were involved in this or any organization like it. You know, it's normal to have a non-disclosure agreement with all kinds of things to not get information out in the public you don't want out there. And that can be for any number of reasons, both private, you know, commercial and such. Not that we've found evidence of ET life. Don't share it. I don't think that's necessarily what it is. More of our protection. But now there's more government involvement, and Fowler's new role certainly stirs the pot even more that one of their prized assets with a big piece of their project, the dog whistle, is gone. Matthew Pines, who is part of the organization and a wonderful commentator on the UFO topic online, has commented to say, don't listen to gossip and rumor. And I'll read you now Skywatcher's comment on the situation, folks. So Skywatcher said this was August 18th. The Skywatcher team is excited to congratulate James Fowler on his new venture, contracting with the US government, and we sincerely thank him for his contributions to Skywatcher. He has played a key role in all of our field operations and in the data we have collected. As of this past July, our team has completed its initial round of field operations, during which data was captured for 7 to 10 days each month, beginning in January. We now hold more than 10 terabytes of data and have assembled an external team of analysts and subject matter experts who have begun their work. We are working with world-class independent scientists, physicists and radar specialists to evaluate the data in accordance with our discovery framework. In short, we have now entered our analysis phase. We are pursuing this work scientifically and rigorously, and we will share our findings as soon as they are available. The entire team is moving as quickly as possible. We'll have more updates to share soon. So, a fair statement, a transparent statement. You could read it multiple different ways. Let me read a question first then from Longknife and Ginger Hipster, who both had some questions on this. So Longknife said, the whole Fowler going back to government and taking his ball with him seems like A, exactly what they wanted. Someone in government to tell him to stop, or the PSYOP had run its course time to wind down. Ginger Hipster, I'll get to in just a second. It's more of a statement, so let me answer the question first from Longknife. So, Fowler going back to government, you could look at it in multiple different ways, and people are. One, the government has won. They've got involved, they have stopped them. I've talked about on this show, and other people have as well, that part of Skywatcher's remit, or modus operandi, was a non-public one to reach out to people within government to say, stop us. We want to help, we want to get on board. Don't make us do this the way we think we need to do it. You know, let's work together. Perhaps that's what's happened. You could look at it as the government shutting things down and signing one of the star players from the team, a real contributing player in James Fowler. However, in the Skywatcher statement, they're saying their analysis was complete, or their data collection was complete come July. So maybe it was just a good time to move on. Maybe this was pre-arranged. Maybe this was a long-standing commitment that James Fowler knew he was going for. And it was data collection was done. Skywatcher no longer necessarily need that equipment as much as I'm guessing they would have liked to have it. But it was a good time to separate. And now they're in an analysis phase that doesn't require that dog whistle. So there are positives to look at from this. I remain hopeful, but skeptical that Skywatcher can come through by the end of the year. I'd love to speak to someone from the organization. It's difficult to get folks to reach out. But again, if they are in this kind of data collecting and now analysis phase, maybe they don't have anything to tell us. You know, they're doing their updates online as and when they can. So yeah, I wonder how this changes people's opinions or thoughts on Skywatcher as a project. They're three quarters of the way through the year. They've got a few months now to see what they can provide. And I wonder is three months enough to go through 10 terabytes of data? Let's wait and see. Fingers crossed. Ginger Hipster, great name, says there are now a variety of people and groups in the private sector who say they can summon UAP through tech, consciousness, or some combination of both. This seems like it should be a bigger deal. Speaking as someone from outside the US, I have absolutely no confidence in the efforts being made within the borders of that nation. And I think that folks in the US with good intent working towards disclosure should work beyond the realm of their national allegiance for the good of all people. Support for controlled disclosure with allegiance to national interest is in support of efforts that have caused massive harm to many people. I suppose I can't disagree with the idea that we often hear about the American people deserve to know and more than half this audience is based in the United States. So say to that what you will. It does seem to be mainly the Americans, the American government, American specialists who are working on this topic, not to downplay the work being done by other folks. But if that's where the work is, then they are speaking to that American public and the American psyche, the American people, American voters, American taxpayers, American funding on this. And that's nice to see, for example, the Sol Foundation has their symposium at the end of October in Milan in Italy. So they've moved over to Europe for this year's symposium. I am fortunate I'm going to be attending the symposium. So anyone who is going, it'd be great to meet up, let me know. But that's good to see that they're moving outside of the remit of the States. And this is a worldwide phenomena. Let's get folks, journalists, academics, scientists from outside the United States involved. And perhaps that's what's going to happen at the Sol Foundation this year as well. The Sol Foundation, of course, co-founded by Gary Nolan. And of course, he has that involvement still with Skywatcher. Remember, folks, Gary Nolan stated that if he felt there was any moral issue with Skywatcher and their work and them having any nefarious intent towards these UAP or craft, whatever they are, he would leave. And I am using Gary Nolan as my canary in the coal mine for Skywatcher that as and when he steps away, I suppose a red flag would go up for me with that one. So we'll wait and see on that. But yeah, Skywatcher changes a foot in that organisation. We'll see what comes next. But I would expect to hear from them perhaps in September as they publish part three of their documentary which is kind of going along along the way. Another interesting story that hit the headlines is the release or leak of a Tic Tac manual. Now, folks, this is basically a document that's been released that seems to show the design and construction of the said Tic Tac. Now, famous Tic Tac multiple folks from various tech backgrounds moved very quickly to comment on issues with this but let me read the original post first, okay? So, here's what was said. Alleged leak possibly disinformation documents of Lockheed Martin's CL-956 the Tic Tac according to the leak. The Lockheed Martin CL-957 nicknamed Tic Tac was created in the early 2000s as part of the secret project Orbit Lance. This advanced transmedium vehicle designed for aerospace operations is presently being tested at Groom Lake and Dugway Proving Grounds. Developed by Skunk Works for in-depth intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and quick reaction tasks, the CL-957 incorporates groundbreaking propulsion technology that uses inertial mass reduction and directed gravity manipulation. This enables quiet extreme G performance in atmospheric orbital and underwater environments. Its smooth seamless body is made from a flexible metamaterial outer layer that offers complete stealth across all wavelengths, adjustable surface shaping and integrated energy field management. By 2004 the initial version of this system began limited operational deployment under a special access program. Like I say folks if you're watching on YouTube the picture just next to me is going to be of said manual however there were so many people immediately found issues from various tech backgrounds people with an expertise in photoshopping and whatnot commenting on issues with the wording the labeling the typography the font even finding that the image used on the front of the manual is a copy of another image that appeared online years after this manual was produced and I believe was CGI but this is where we are there is a lot of nonsense a lot of disinformation being pushed online this one is folks I would file under nonsense but is also interesting this kind of stuff is coming out around the time of the hearings and there being such chatter again bubbling up as we head towards another peak in the UFO topic with public interest starting to focus and gaze as the mainstream media will no doubt pick up the UFO conversation Ross Coulthart mentioned on his latest reality check again folks that Skywatcher is constantly being trolled by a lot of accounts that were only created in October and November 2024 part of an ongoing CIA disinformation campaign maybe this kind of thing is just another part of that where people dump stuff online to muddy the water and it's water that's been very muddy already folks that's the main stories what I want to do is just dive into some listener thoughts and questions off the back of those that have not sort of got to in the body of the news show so first off Windermere comments I watched as Ross Coulthart corrected his statement that he categorically knew that the tic-tac was Lockheed's tech during the Nimitz encounter to that the tic-tac was not Lockheed tech as he previously had stated and he walked his statements all the way back to Lockheed was only in control of the tic-tac psionically I believe his original statement was the cause of a split from Bryce Zabel because he refused to confide who his source was even with Bryce I think that this incident was greatly or has greatly hurt Ross's credibility with not only Bryce but with the public also what do you think Andy who might be the dubious who do you think might be the dubious source and can Ross repair this massive blunder lots of questions to ask here I have only tossed out a couple I don't know on this and I don't want to get involved in he said she said I appreciate it did split opinion that's certainly a factual statement I can make while sitting very firmly with my arse on the fence it was controversial you know like I say earlier when Ross mentions things being a dog and pony show I can see why it upsets folks when he made statements like he did but then can't go into more detail Bryce was certainly upset by it it seemed I don't know whether that statement and that episode was the cause of their split perhaps perhaps it wasn't only Bryce and Ross I think would know that I don't know who the dubious source would be I think Ross Coulter has numerous very good sources who have given him credible and good information over the years we don't know if this was just a mistake a misstep perhaps it's accurate we don't fully know yet we can only assume I fall on the side of I don't believe it is Lockheed Martin technology and if it is I think that brings up a whole load of more questions and again it's certainly opinion that if you view this as a blunder from Ross Coulter people do the reality check podcast and show is very popular a lot of folks in the comments there and online do very much support Ross Coulter as much as Ross gets a lot of smash from other folks as well and I've talked about that with Ross some time ago when we recorded privately and on the podcast Ross is a strong character and he knows what he's saying he knows what he's doing so I don't think either way it would necessarily affect him the trolling he's got quite a strong Aussie ethic behind him which I think is quite similar to that British mentality as well so certainly I think in the eyes of folks who may feel his credibility has been diminished from this situation of course I would believe someone like Ross could come back but it just depends are people happy with what Ross says going forward it'll depend but yeah it's all very much an eye of the beholder with this one folks for me I enjoy Ross's commentary I enjoy what he says but like with anyone in the UFO topic and I would encourage folks the same with myself just because I share an opinion doesn't mean you need to agree with it or not I always like to hear various different opinions different takes and it makes me question things in different ways as well so I had no issue with those statements as much as I perhaps don't agree Ricky got in touch with a question similarly and congratulations to Ricky on his new position I'll just say that much Ricky was in touch and he had a promotion so well done Ricky he says I could possibly buy that the tic-tac is or was Lockheed Martin but if it was it's extremely bizarre all the data was snatched up and Admiral G Gallaudet was left out of the loop do you think if it was Lockheed then that's likely why the tic-tac knew the cap point this whole cap point situation again for folks unfamiliar I think a lot of folks will be by this point is that the tic-tac knew a pre-arranged point out at sea that the pilots and those involved in those military operations in 2004 with the Nimitz and the Princeton were going to meet you know you're out at sea there's no streets there's no landmarks me that the cap point had been used multiple times before it wasn't that it found it before it had been used so it could be the tic-tac whatever it was knew the cap point through observation and that could be whether it was alien interdimensional human technology a Chinese drone Russian manned drone who knows but perhaps it knew through observation regardless in the same way that after time your dog will sit at the back door to let you know he wants to go out for a walk excuse me folks little bit of hiccup there so yeah it could be a learned behavior it could be it was reading the systems some folks believe it was reading the pilots minds I don't think that was the case on this one I think it was an observed behavior based on repeated use of said cat point or at least technology using the systems but yeah interesting thoughts and it's funny that here we are 21 years after the tic-tac event happened we're still talking about it and it still seems like it's got something more to give some other questions again folks I never quite got to Paul says to what extent do you think that the credibility of NHI being behind UAP has been materially damaged by the examples you list when stepping back and looking at them individually and collectively and I suppose the examples being the news items for this show so let me answer it really broadly and pretty quickly the idea that you know we've got these hearings we've got the tic-tac manual dropping you've got the immaculate constellation document you've got Ross Coulthart's comments on tic-tacs you've got the psionic aspect and the dog whistle aspect of what sky watcher are doing I don't think it does damage the idea that NHI are behind UAP and I'll just use my own personal experience because I think for me that's the best way to put this no matter who or what lets you down in this subject whether it's an individual or an organisation or a train of thinking you had or a piece of evidence you've held dear and you've been let down by said person organisation evidence I've had my own experience in the mid 90s where I saw as people may know a huge ferris wheel looking object really close to the ground moving at incredible speed spinning on the spot that shouldn't have been there for me I can always go back to that and say I don't think that was the Russians testing out a new carnival ride in the middle of Scotland in the mid 90s I don't think it was the US government I don't think it was the British government I think I saw something pretty incredible that wasn't human and perhaps the more I've been involved can something access our reality in a different way to us did we see it in that small group I was a part of and other people didn't given it was a busy built up suburban area perhaps I don't know but for me there's enough evidence to suggest there's at least a non-human element to some of what's happening and going on and I think the pushback and the cover up when you look at the totality of what's happening right now is enough to suggest this isn't just the US hiding some secret tech because I think there's a lot of panic from a US point of will you obviously know one another and Lou responded with yes I'm very familiar with Gary and his work in ATIP in not for but in interesting dynamic that isn't it particularly with what's happening I'm not aware of Gary Nolan working for ATIP folks might know that may be common knowledge I don't think it is if he did I wouldn't be shocked if Gary Nolan shared some insight or perhaps some of his work was involved or looked at as part of it but yeah I think there is a lot of cross pollination across the topic and there has been and I think this is something I've talked about how over the last however many years now in the topic four or five years there's been a fracturing as different people have split off and gone into their own ways of working maybe there was a pool of folks like Elizondo Mellon Nolan and any number of folks you could throw into that who in 2020 2021 were more aligned in their thinking but as they've got deeper as they've got more involved perhaps they have moved off into their own ways of working Lou Elizondo very much seems to work on his own I don't see him attached or affiliated with much these days you've got Gary Nolan with Peter Scaffish Jonathan Baird and the Sol Foundation and the work they're doing is very scientific very academic looking at this from a very different point of view you've got your Carl Nells getting involved in the topic and speaking at things like the Salt Foundation Avi Loeb with the Galileo Project Beatrice Villareal and the work that she's doing with her transient objects Skywatcher Jake Barber the psionic aspect of this the fact they can technologically and psionically or psychically contact craft it's splintered off into so many different directions that makes things complicated it makes things naturally more complex but perhaps it gives us different avenues or paths or opportunities for progress to split off in those different directions but again I'd love to know people's thoughts on that splintering and again for me right now the Sol Foundation is one that I very much keep an eye on as it works away quietly and diligently in the background Brian asks thoughts on Skinwalker Ranch's ceramic find in the latest series for me Brian very quickly on that one I'm not up to date with Skinwalker Ranch this series so I will at some point but I'm not too sure on that one to watch as things go on and carry on into further seasons are you still enjoying it are you feeling that it's getting somewhere are we seeing progress from series like Skinwalker Ranch and the UFO topic it certainly splits opinion Brian also asked me has my opinion or trust changed on anyone's narrative over the last eight years without going into individual names I think what I've managed or learned to do pretty early on especially the last two or three years is take more of a step back and I decided a long time ago to hang more on the periphery of the subject not get involved with individuals groups echo chambers chatter chatter rumours to an extent that you're sitting in various groups on whatsapp or signal or forums and communities I just for me personally it's not my thing not my bag and I appreciate maybe folks who listen to this or watch this podcast that is your bag for other people it's not so much but yeah I think it's there's a lot of moving parts it's very complex very complicated individuals and organisations have come and gone in that time they have also made mistakes but they have also made progress no one is perfect but yeah there's all kind of things we don't know about we don't hear about when it comes to this topic so yeah for me the big change for me has been that being able to step back and try and take a broader view of what's being said and who is saying it and doing the podcast and the way I've done it there's been some kind of changes and tweaks in the way it's presented but I think that gives the audience for me a fairer chance to make up their own mind I don't want to come on here and tell you who to believe who to listen to who to watch for who not to watch for I can only share my opinion and always try and state that it is my opinion and trust people trust people to make up their own mind and Brian also asked if a wealthy backer or group agreed to fund whistleblowers pensions would that encourage more to come forward perhaps could you say Skywatcher as a group funded by wealthy backers Alex Clocus and the group involved there are all independently wealthy and funding the work being done there does that change with that dog whistle going is that something that was part of those contracts perhaps we don't know yet maybe we don't find out I think the money side of it always raises an eyebrow or a red flag for a lot of folks but again if you knew you had some kind of financial protection there as long as the vetting was done and the people funding that were aware of the individual being all good thumbs up they are who they say they are they're being honest then yeah perhaps I think there's just a lot happens in the dark and murky backgrounds and I think from when he came out with the attacks both personally and professionally showed how someone making the statements he made could be treated so yeah I can see why a lot of folks did hang back and choose not to speak and finally a couple of comments from people asking me Aaron asked what about the Grush Luna Elizondo spat so again I commented on this on the last show with Pavel on the breakdown if you have got two more sorry but this is on the Elizondo and Luna situation so from Buffalo Gal she says as to the tiff between Elizondo and Luna on X I live in the same town as Luis Elizondo the closest major airport is 120 miles yes we have an airport 35 miles away but you have to connect to Denver and there are few flights to choose from also that time of year is our snowiest time of year and the weather is very unpredictable since he made so many trips on his dime to DC can you blame him for not showing up he actually has commitments here and a family also considering that Luna could only have been referring to a couple of people in the skiff flu comment I think most would agree he had the right to defend himself since she went on Rogan to make that comment I as well as others would like all of the information and all UAP related matters to be revealed but that is not reality these people are bound by NDAs and cannot tell what they know I as well as others will continue to listen but we all know that the government military and industrial complex people control it they control it all and we didn't travel and I think more and more it's looking like Luna was perhaps unfair in what she said on the Joe Rogan podcast and it does seem that she can just speak which can be great from a UFO speculation gossip chit chat point of view but it's not always completely coherent or correct or it can be clouded by personal opinion at the time and that's something I'm still getting comments and emails and people getting in touch with me from both sides or all sides of the US political spectrum who have different thoughts and feelings on the individuals involved so yeah it is what it is for me it wasn't a good look the whole online debacle between Luna and Lou Elizondo they could have kept that offline you could argue Luna cast the first stone by saying what she said on a very public forum with the Joe Rogan podcast and the David Grush element being thrown in David Grush hasn't come out and said anything himself so you have to take that with a pinch of salt final listener question folks from Peter he says just a I don't know if people will like this answer Peter however I think the community and human nature we do it to ourselves you only have to throw one cat amongst the pigeons for so many different folks to carry on with their own stories I think there's been so many examples of a few comments running wild and spreading information that may not necessarily be correct in recent time I think that whole never saw anything at all other than some folks looking for clickbait online that there was any aliens involved in that and that it wasn't a bunch of youths causing issues and the police presence and whatnot I know it was a big police presence but I saw nothing alien related to that one but folks online jumped on it same with some of the drone stuff where so many people posted things online which were quite clearly just aircraft claiming it was something else and people jumped on it so for me the UFO community does enough infighting there's enough misinformation there's enough misinformation being spread I try my best as can I call myself a researcher I suppose just looking into what I research but there are far far better researchers out there than me doing what they do that can truly lay claim to but again appreciate you folks listening to and watching this for my own opinion I think if you're a gatekeeper you sprinkle a little bit of bullshit in amongst some truth and then it's very hard to disseminate what is bullshit and all of the above I think they just let people do it themselves and social media has a lot of great elements to it I think it also answers has a five available around half of those are now gone and also my favourite piece I think is the new science the shit out of it t-shirt that I've bought myself and I'll be wearing soon on the podcast and go check it out and if you see something you like why not treat yourself if you don't fuck it don't on that my book that you may have heard me mention a book almost two years ago I think it's a brilliant coffee table book I would say that though wouldn't I it's a good conversation starter hopefully it complements your existing collection or if you don't have one it'd be a good place to start or maybe gift it to someone you can get signed copies from forum books if you want a signed copy then you have to get in quick as I am looking forward to going and personalising those books or if you want to order from one of the usual outlets like Amazon Barnes and Noble Waterstones etc the link is in the description and if when it's out you see it in a store I'd love for you to take a snap of it and send me a picture or something or share it online anything like that would be very helpful folks even the pre-orders make a big difference from an Amazon point of view if you haven't already pre-ordered I promise you it's a really well put together book and I don't mean just the writing for me the whole team of people who worked on it to make it look and feel like it does I truly believe it's a premium quality book when you see it I plus bonus content is available from this price of a small coffee free trials if you check out Apple and Patreon are available otherwise Spotify if you type in that UFO podcast premium or YouTube have paid feeds to access big thank you to everyone who has listened or watched this far and if you want to get involved email over ufo uap am at gmail.com or use the contact form at that ufopodcast.com forward slash contact with the hearings over the horizon lots of shows are coming including a listener ramble I've got loads of questions from people using those contact forms and emails to get through there will be preview shows I've got Stephen Bassett hopefully joining me in the next week or so to talk about the hearing in advance and of course we'll be analysing and breaking down what comes from those hearings and anything else that's going on in the UFO topic with some new interviews also on the way and with that said I will speak to you all very very soon my new book Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects is now available to pre-order wherever books are sold including Amazon Barnes & Noble and Waterstones explore the UFO phenomenon through 34 cases from throughout the world with accompanying pictures and maps in a beautiful hardback edition or download for your Kindle links available in the podcast description below