A Scared to Death Timesuck with Dan Cummins

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Listen to the Astonishing Junk Drawer exclusively at patreon.com slash astonishing legends. I've lost all track of what day of the week it is. We're still talking about movies, I'm sorry. The earth is going to be fine. They call it the elephant's foot. Michelle said you're hanging on by a thread, so you might as well take that vodka shot. If Prince had crawled out of his grave, I don't think he could have gotten into the live show. So, if you want to roam the earth in that, have at it. That's weird. Wait, you didn't end the stream. I'm ending it now. I don't know why we don't go away at the end of that. We should. I think we're supposed to. Are people still hanging out? Maybe I'm supposed to make us go away ahead of time. No, now we're going. Bye, everybody. Good night. Tonight's episode contains discussions of adult themes as related to historical research connected to Russian mystic Rasputin, including sensitive topics such as rape and sexual practices. Listener discretion is strongly advised. The content may not be suitable for all audiences, and we encourage listeners to exercise caution when listening. Astonishing Legends. We'd like to thank Smalls, Factor, our contributors at patreon.com, and you, our listeners, for making tonight's show possible. Tonight, Astonishing Legends welcomes a master storyteller, podcasting legend, and comedian with an extensive archive of episodes that border on the supernatural, Dan Cummins, creator of the wildly popular podcasts Time Suck and Scared to Death. Dan's show Time Suck delves into historical figures and mysteries with the meticulous attention of a scholar and the disposition of a seasoned stand-up comedian. We have long been fans of his shows, not only for how well they are produced, but because his research rivals ours in depth. We'll be discussing a wide variety of topics tonight, from Dan's paranormal experiences over the years to the puzzling legend of the mad monk, Rasputin. Dan has covered Rasputin in the past, and the depth of his knowledge about him underscores his lasting psychological influence and power. We're also going to examine some unsettling similarities between one of Dan's own unexplained experiences and something that happened to Scott a few years ago. The coincidences are too odd to ignore. Dan's prolific output, two weekly podcasts, plus bonus content, demonstrates his strong work ethic and passion for the same kinds of topics we love here on our show. We'll discuss his unique approach to storytelling and the unexpected path that led him to podcasting. Additionally, Scott will share an anecdote from his recent tour of the infamous Rhine Institute in Durham, North Carolina, where he learned about a recent scientific study on human bioluminescence. Welcome back to Astonishing Legends. I'm Scott Philbrook, and this is Dan Cummins. I've had a little thing happen now, and weirdly it started right when I started scared to death. And it was just a taste, and I'm like, I know that was paranormal. Join us tonight for an in-depth discussion with Dan Cummins on, well, a lot of stuff. And we're back. That we are, folks. And I would like to dedicate tonight's show to an amazing woman in my life who was a take-no-prisoners, cynical, witty, and hilarious matriarch in every sense of the word, my grandmother, Betty Brinkley. She passed away peacefully yesterday, as we record this, on March 18th, 2025, at the age of 96. And I'm just so grateful that my entire family got a chance to visit with her before she transitioned. It's an odd thing to be in the world without one of those folks that was here before me. Yeah, I know. It's never easy to lose a family institution like that, especially one that's been around and had such an impact on everybody. And I know you loved her dearly. And it was a storied family, her and her husband, right? Her husband was related to newscaster David Brinkley. I'm not sure many people remember who he was, but he was talking about an institution in the news. Yeah. David Brinkley was my grandfather, her husband, my grandfather's father's brother. Wow. Yeah. He was, I guess, an old-school newscaster. A lot of people will not have heard of him, but he was one of the first guys out there out of North Carolina, which is interesting because Edward R. Murrow is also from North Carolina. So we got two pretty serious news guys from North Carolina back in the day. I know. Well, I've heard all the family stories, and my heart goes out to you and your family for the loss. But also, they leave a tremendous legacy because even the attendants at her care facility called her this. What were their nicknames for her and her husband? She was known as the queen. Right. My grandfather was known as the king by the whole family. That's what they called them for decades. And why? Because they were just such magnificent presences? It's honestly, I feel like I've told this on the show before. I don't think I have, maybe. But my, it's all because, it's me, actually. I came up with it, which is, it's a huge family now. There's all kinds of grandkids and great-grandkids and lots and lots of people. But back in the day, I was the only grandson. I was the first one. And my grandfather was a banker. He was like a vice president at a bank, and he did commercial loans. And my mom had gone back to college, and I would stay at their house after school until she got out of college classes that she was taking. She was studying to be a CPA. And one day, he came home. He drove this big Lincoln Continental, and they had like a kind of a nice house in Raleigh, North Carolina. And I was there waiting. And he came in the door, and I said, the king is home. And then he became the king from then until he passed away. And he died a while back, and she became the queen. But they very much embodied those personalities. And for other folks who are older, and you'd have to be older still, but you can probably look on YouTube and find her. There was a sitcom way back in the day in the 70s called Maud. Oh, yeah. And then there's Maud, I think, or just Maud. B. Arthur. Maybe the theme song is Then There's Maud. Yeah, B. Arthur. That was my grandmother's personality to a T. My wife, who was a comedy writer, even said that my grandmother was funnier than B. Arthur. But yes, the same vibe. So yeah, she will be sorely missed. Well, sorely missed, but always remembered. So you can't ask for much more than that. All right, folks. Tonight's show was a blast. It came at the right time for me. I'm so glad we finally got a chance to sit down and really hang out with Dan. And folks, we're damn near certain you're going to enjoy this episode. So when it's done, find and subscribe to his shows, Time Suck, and the one he does with his better half, Lindsay, Scared to Death. Both are excellent. Oh, they are. You know what? If you love some spicy, peppery, salty humor with your laundry list of facts that we deliver without all the humor, check out those shows because they're a lot of fun, each in their own different way. So they both bring a lot to the table. And one of the things that we found out from talking to him, and you'll hear this tonight, is that he is a very disciplined individual. Oh, yeah. And he is very focused on his research and getting things right and going deep. And that's one of the things because, you know, we had told him that we'd wanted to talk a little bit about Rasputin. We were thinking about doing a show on him down the road. But honestly, when I heard Dan's coverage of it, which was an episode he did back in 2017, I was like, wow. I mean, this guy, my God, he really, really covered it. He dug up a lot of great information. Right. And conveyed it in a really great way with a great narrative structure. So he's just a top flight podcaster in this field. And it's in the same genre as us. In a lot of ways, they do things that we don't do. But, and also he's a standup. So he's hilarious. And, you know, which we're not. So there you go. No, I was going to say, people don't get the wrong impression. Yes, there is a lot of irreverence and humor directed towards the goofy, crazy characters throughout history on his subjects and the topics he covers. But he's very reverent to the facts and the information. And it's very well researched. A trustworthy source. Trustworthy source. He's also very concise, which we've never managed to do with the same amount of information. We're getting better at it. We're getting better. We're getting better at it. 10 years in, we're getting better at it. Yeah, but they're both very entertaining. So go check them out. All right, Sarah, let's roll our discussion with Dan Cummins. We would like to welcome a longtime podcaster who honestly is better at it than we are to the show. And you may have heard of him because his name is Dan Cummins and his show is called Time Suck. It's been around a long time. That's one of his shows. He's actually got another show now with his wife, which is Scared to Death. Right, Dan? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So welcome to Astonishing Legends. Thank you for coming on. Well, thank you. You set the bar too high. Anyone who listens like, oh, he's better? Nope. They will immediately be disappointed. But thank you. I disagree. You know, it's funny because we've been in touch over the years. We did some cross promos several years ago. It was on Scared to Death, I believe. Oh, that's right. That's right. You were, weren't you, Forrest? When did you go on? What did you talk about when you went on? Oh, boy. You're one, maybe. You're two at the most. Oh, wow. Yeah, it just started. But, you know, what you'll find and listeners will find is, you know, a lot of these folks, especially within the genre, kind of have heard of each other. And, you know, not only are there, you know, you're going to be fast friends and they're listeners. They've heard your show. I've heard their show. So, but the premise sounds like a lot of fun just to be on. So, obviously, yeah, I agreed to come on and it was a blast. Oh, thanks. Yeah. I remember I reached out to you guys. What first caught my eye, you know, as I was looking into like paranormal shows, I kept seeing your guys' logo pop up and it is one of my favorite logos of just any show of any kind. I still. Oh, wow. Thanks. Oh, it's so good. And I still like, I mean, I see it on Forrest's hat, you know, I'm like, I'm jealous, you know, I'm happy with ours, but it's not that it's like, it's perfect. Yeah. It's wild. I don't, I don't know how we've just finished our 305th show. Yeah. You're on over 400. I think. Yeah. What in the world, man? How often are you putting out time sucks? Is it weekly? It's weekly. So round weekly year round 52 weeks a year. Yeah. How do you do that? My wife would say like, I've, I've pushed it to the edge of a nervous break. Down on several occasions. Well, we're glad there's a limit because it would seem impossible, but first of all, dad's in better shape. Also, we're going to talk about him being a standup comedian and that performance gene, as we called it, and that kind of energy that it takes to do that. And also one thing I love about not only a standup, but the podcast he does is there's full of energy. It just comes across your, there's never a dull moment. You're laughing throughout and learning a little something and just that amount of energy. It's like, okay, this guy is a different breed than Scott and I. It's like, Scott and I wrote, we just read eight articles and we're exhausted. You know, it's funny, like socially I get exhausted pretty fast. Like if I go to like a little gathering, I can only kind of handle so much of that before I'm pretty tired. But like when it comes to information, my wife would say, I've never, I've never been tested, but she is certain that I'm fairly autistic. And, uh, when it comes to like research and stuff, I basically won't get out of my seat until I just have to, cause I have to go to the bathroom so bad or my blood sugar is all wonky because I haven't eaten in a while. But like, I love to just absorb information. I'm just fascinated by it. Yeah. And I was so thankful that I found an audience for people who wanted to hear that information regurgitated. Yes. Because a lot of the comedic podcasts where it's just a conversation, I mean, I get it. There's a place for that, but I get pretty bored with that pretty fast. Right. You know, just talking about the same kind of stand-up-y things. I would much rather talk about, well, like we talked about before, before we started hitting record, Rasputin, some just historical weirdo. Yes. I could lose days happily just be like, what? Are you serious? Well, and that shows in your episode on him, it's like one of the most thorough historical episodes, cause there's so much. And when we tackle topics like that and you get, you can get really in the weeds on like, it's almost, you, you've got, you got to walk the line between this academic history lesson and then the weirdness and the parts that, you know, that you're real. And that guy, what a freak, by the way. And you, you made a joke in your episode on him, which I thought was funny. You were like, you know, sometimes people say that about my eyes cause my eyes are really good. And I went and looked at like a publicity shot of you on the internet. And I was like, I think you, you two might be related. You and Rasputin. Oh yeah. No, folks. He doesn't, I can look cool to you for sure. He's a very handsome man. He doesn't look anything like that as we're seeing him now. I got my glasses, but oh no, my, my, even my daughter, my teenage daughter, we were having dinner a while back and, and I have tattoos and things, you know, and I'm sometimes bigger than people expect when they've seen me online. And she just said out of nowhere, she's like, if I didn't know you, she's like, just looking to you, I'd be scared. I was like, yeah. And I'm a, I think a pretty gentle, nice guy, but it's like, it is funny. Like, uh, I've gotten the Rasputin or a comparison or like cult leader when we've covered cults in the past. They're like, you know, that you definitely look like a cult leader, right? Right, right. You could pull this off. Yeah. It's the eyes. I think people are, they're conflating that though, with your personality. And like I said, it's a lot of charisma coming through. You don't look scary to us at all. Okay, good, good, good. Cause here's the thing is like what you do, not everybody in the audio space could do. And that is stand, it's one of the most scary things on earth is to stand up in front of an audience and tell jokes. Yeah, that is terrifying. Just the fear of bombing and the reaction. And when it works, there's a high to it. I mean, I've been on stage a little bit and, and it's exhilarating, but just being on camera when you just have crew people there, that is terrifying, exhausting. And there's a lot to it that people who've not done it don't realize that. Totally. When did you start doing standup, man? I started doing standup back in 2000, shortly after, like a year after college. And it's interesting, I was just talking to somebody about this the other day, but I'm one of the few standups who never really cared that much about standup. I wanted to do something creative. I was actually more into music at that time, but I had a little band in college and, you know, was frustrated that they weren't as invested in it as I was. And I didn't want to have to restart. And I just thought, well, what's something I can do where I don't have to depend on others and don't have to worry about them flaking out, but it allows me, you know, a lot of creativity, immediate feedback, which was nice about standup. And so, yeah, I just got into it then. And, and, and really over the years, I've learned what I really like is just storytelling. And actually what I like about podcasting compared to standup is my problem with standup has always been, as soon as I get a story or a joke to work, I lose all interest in repeating it. Oh, right. Yeah. I like the creation process. I like, I like the, the puzzle solving aspect of figuring out how to make this story funny for strangers. But then once I've done that, I'm like, okay, I'm bored. Let's do the next thing. I'm not a comedian, but I can relate to that in terms of projects. Like it's over the years, whenever I would try to take something on and Forrest and I have talked about this, we were even were involved in something, I guess, 20 years now ago that was the same kind of thing. It's like, I want to crack the nut. And then once it's cracked, I'm kind of like, um, I start, I get a wandering eye or whatever. This is a probably astonishing legends is the longest I've stuck with anything really. I'm, I mean, I used to be an editor, a TV commercial editor and stuff like that. I was in that gig for 17 years. So I got to do seven more years here before I'll surpass what I thought of as my career for the first half of my life, you know? Yeah. But probably with this is podcasting is constantly evolving and changing. Yeah. And within the paranormal world, there are so many different things to look at. So many types of stories. It's nice that way where for a creative person or somebody who gets easily bored, I think it does a good job of like holding our attention. Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition. If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of, or artificial sweeteners do all the heavy lifting. It's basically dessert in disguise. You shouldn't have to choose between tasty and nutritious. And that's what makes Aloha stand out. Aloha protein bars nail the delicious and nutritious. They're USDA organic and made with ingredients that actually grow somewhere. It's their whole taste that grows philosophy. Plant-based ingredients grown in the ground, thoughtfully sourced, and built to keep you satisfied. Their peanut butter cup bar has 14 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber, and only 5 grams of sugar, which is wild considering how delicious it is. 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La erupción dolorosa con ampollas duró semanas, haciendo que incluso las tareas más simples sean todo un reto. No aprendas sobre la culebrilla de la manera difícil. Hi, I'm Jenna, and you're listening to Astonishing Legends with Scott Philbrook and Boris Burgess. Now back to the show. Here's, you know, it's a personal question. I should have asked you this one off the air, but like, if you're doing a weekly show, how often do you guys put out scared? Has that, how often does that go? We do a week, that one every week as well. You have two 52-week, year-round weekly shows. Yeah, and then we do bonus episodes on Patreon for Scared to Death, and then I started doing two short sucks a month last year on Time Suck. Oh, right, that's right. So every other week I do one of those, and then every other week on Scared to Death, now I do these Nightmare Fuel stories, which are fictional stories. Every time, it's like a joke with my wife. I paused stand-up, took some time off the road, and the point was to recharge, which I did, but like recharge and do less. I think two weeks after I stopped touring, I immediately launched these other series. Yeah. And she's like, why? Why do you do that to yourself? Right. Oh my God. Does she have a day job or another gig too, or it's just all you're just working on y'all's stuff? When we left L.A., we met in L.A., and we moved to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho to be closer to the kids. I have two kids with my ex-wife. They were coming down and back and forth all the time. Didn't want to split them up when my son wanted to live with us. So we just thought, okay, my ex is not going to move to L.A. We need to move back to where she is and move up here. My current wife, Lindsay, was in the production space in film and TV. She was in the costume department. What kind of stuff did she work on? She worked on like Supergirl, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Oh, cool. Weeds, a bunch of shows over the years, mostly TV, mostly in the studio lots. And she primarily worked as a costumer or as a shopper. Okay. She would go get the outfits for everybody to wear. So when she moved up here, she was going to go into realty and be a realtor. Yeah. And about a year into her doing that, things started to pick up on Time Suck. And we were at that weird point where we were gaining a lot of traction as far as listeners at that time. It was a newer show. It was building, getting more emails from fans, more engagement, more demand for content. I was trying to keep up with that. But we weren't monetizing a lot of it yet. Yeah. Yeah. So we had more work than I could handle. I was getting real fried and felt like I was going to collapse. And so we had this decision. We couldn't afford to pay someone to do what she could do, but she could do it. And she took a leap of faith and left realty and came over here. And she's been doing that for six, seven years now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's amazing. But when you first started, let's wind this back. Like what got you interested in that? Any formative experiences when you were young? I would say like on the paranormal side, I mean, Time Suck's kind of all over the place, but with like scared to death, paranormal, the first author I fell in love with, I grew up in this tiny town. And I'm old enough and it was remote enough that when I was a kid, you had the three channels. You had like airwaves. You had like NBC, CBS, ABC. I mean, very, very little to watch, but we did have a library and this little library. And my grandma, who I spent a lot of time with my grandparents growing up, like their house was more of the main house as opposed to like my mom's house. And my grandma was always reading. I started reading young. You know, she was, you know, got me reading young. And I don't even remember exactly what drew me to horror, but I saw something like the way it made me feel or whatever. And the first author I started reading was Stephen King, which is probably not a normal choice for a little kid. But I was fascinated. I remember being so into it. I wanted to move to Maine. I wish I could have lived there. I thought these towns were real. And then that led to my stepdad, a couple of years later, got this huge satellite, like early satellite TV days. It looked like something from NASA. I mean, yeah, those dishes. I had friends with those in high school. Huge. Nuts. Yeah. And plus they have motors on them. You got to tune them to different satellites. Oh, yeah. And you'd grind along on this massive concrete block. Yeah. And there was this thing going around when I was probably 10 or 11. My stepdad got it. They just called it the black box to scrambler. Yes. Yep. Yep. Totally illegal. I don't know who sold these things. I still don't understand to this day how they did this, but you would just get it. And it gave you literally every channel for free. Yes. Yep. And so suddenly they just had all the channels. And I had a little TV in my room after that that was, again, like it's no one would have this now. We called it like a satellite TV where it only showed it was hooked up to the main TV. So I had to watch whatever anybody else was watching. Whatever they were watching. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But because nobody else had something like this in my friend's group in our town, I became like the go-to sleepover place. Yeah. And because we had all the channels, once my mom and stepdad fell asleep, we could watch anything. I mean, we could watch anything from penthouse to cinema. But what we started to fall in love with was these Cinemax, HBO, and stuff at that time, late on Friday night, late on Saturday. Oh, Skinamax. Skinamax. Totally Skinamax. That's what we used to call it. Yeah. Us too. Us too. Yeah. And Showtime and all that. But they would play horror movies all the time. And that was the go-to for years was to watch all these horror movies. And so well before comedy, I was much more in love with horror. Oh, interesting. And even when I got into comedy, and specifically Supernatural horror has always been my favorite. And then once, you know, even when I got into comedy, if I was going to watch a movie, it was never a comedy. It was always, you know, something in usually like the paranormal horror or sci-fi space. Oh, very cool. And so it was always kind of there in the background, a fascination with this world. And then once Time Suck got going, and Time Suck, I launched that out of honestly 100% desperation. My stand-up career was I had a good reputation to clubs for being funny, but I could not sell a ticket to save my life. I'd done some of the late night. It didn't help translate to an audience. And then once you kind of do those shows, unless you become a favorite, they just move on to the next person, which I get. So I was kind of on the outs. We had decided to move up to Coeur d'Alene. And I honestly thought like my career was probably over. And so I took this Hail Mary on like, okay, I'll try a podcast, but I don't want to do. I tried a few in the past and I was sick of agents and managers telling me, oh, you should do this. Oh, you should do that. It never worked. None of what they suggested resonated with me. So I'm like, well, this is going to be my last thing. At least I should like it. Yeah. And I thought, well, I like these weird topics. I like exploring deep dives. That's what I procrastinate and do when I'm supposed to be working on a script or something. And instead I'm learning about like the OJ Simpson trial randomly, 10 years, you know, like something, something random. Yeah. And I just thought, well, maybe people will like it and threw it out there as a Hail Mary. It worked. And then I started to try to do paranormal topics on that show, but it was too analytical, too critical. And I felt like I was taking all the fun out of it. And I was like, this isn't the right vehicle for that. And that led to scared to death where I was like, my wife is a very expressive person. Great to watch a horror movie with because she's one of those people that will cover her eyes and scream. And I just thought, well, what if I told these stories to her and didn't critique them? Here is what someone claims has happened, period. I wasn't there. I don't know what's true. And I also am going to see if I can tell it to her and if I can scare her and she's having kind of fun in that scared way, maybe other people listening will feel the same. And that's how it became a thing. That's great. Yeah. That's great. So it's very organic. Yeah. So nothing really odd happened to you. It's more of just a general like for the genre. Nothing really said to you. I wanted something. I wanted something to happen. That's the other camp. Yeah. I used to want that until it happened. Oh, really? Yeah. I am on the edge. I've had a little thing happen now. And weirdly, it started right when I started scared to death. Yeah. And it was just a taste. And I'm like, I know that was paranormal. There's no other. What was that? What happened? It's not the most exciting thing. Yeah. But it was at the Rainbow Tavern on the Sunset Strip in LA. Yeah. I was doing a show at the Comedy Store, but we were living here now. So it was my wife, Lindsay, my agent, Joe. So we were meeting at the Rainbow Room or whatever, Rainbow Tavern, to have a meal before the show. So we met kind of early, like 5 o'clock. It was like on a Thursday, pretty dead for anyone who's not been there. You know, it's kind of this old school, like Italian steakhouse kind of vibe, the pleated leather, the booths, dark. In the evening, it's filled with 80s hair farmer rockers. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a last bastion for the hair bands like Rat and Motley Crue. And then people who are even younger are still showing up to wallow in that vibe. It's got a cool feel. It does. It does. Lemmy from Motorhead's got his own stool there. Yeah. I mean, you know, God rest his soul. Totally. I went and sat on that stool last time I went, so. That's awesome. Yeah, I'd never been. And so, you know, you know, it's like the ground floor is like the restaurant. Then you go up one level, there's a bar and a little performance space. And I think there's even a third level with a tiny performance space up there. It'd been known as the Vampire Lounge. Oh, that's right. You get a little special access. And basically, I think there's a, you know, you go up there and there's a tiny bar. It's often not staffed. So, but you can just go up there and chill out and it's a little quieter and you can look down and see the other performance space. And I think they have TVs where you can, you can watch. Basically, it's just people, one of those places that somebody, you wander into, you have a few sips and then you go someplace else. You can look down at the police. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the next floor down. Well, when we went there, the second floor was not staffed. The third floor, definitely not staffed. It's pretty dead. We're waiting for Joe to arrive. My wife, Lindsay, and I were sitting there in the booth and it was pretty lightly, you know, there wasn't that many other people there. And eventually I have to go to the bathroom. So I'm like, hey, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. Where is it? It's the second floor. On my way up to the second floor, first little weird thing, but fairly common for me in LA. There was this guy and this lady coming down and they just had a very strange energy, but like especially strange. And the way he was looking at me, I'm like, I don't know, just kind of gave me the chills and I couldn't figure out why. I'm like, well, that's weird, but let go of it. I go and use the bathroom and the bathroom on the second floor. When you walk in, there is one stall to your left. And I think like two urinals straight ahead. It's a very small bathroom. And I walk in and there's a sink to wash your hands right when you walk in. I would have noticed if it was on because I'm an anal person. That way I would have turned it off. Yeah. I go, I'm using the urinal. All of a sudden I noticed the sink is on full blast and not only full blast, but it's so hot. Steam is coming out of the sink. And I remember specifically thinking, why would they do that? That's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Right. Like, why would they allow it to ever get that hot? Someone's going to burn themselves and sue them. So I'm thinking that also just kind of feels weird in there. Finish using the bathroom. I turn the hot water off, put the cold on, wash my hands, you know, put the hot. So it's warm, whatever. And then I'm like, man, that's crazy that it was able to get that hot. And I wanted to recreate it. So I turned just the hot water on, let it ride for about, I don't know, 30 seconds. Doesn't get close to that hot. And I'm like, that is really, really weird. And I still feel weird. So I walk downstairs, sit back at the booth, and then the waitress comes over. And I have, one and only time I've ever said this, I go, excuse me, I've never asked anybody the question like this before, but is this place haunted? And she goes, oh, yeah. And then she had to walk off to deal with somebody else. I'm like, okay, that's weird. Yeah. Well, then she comes back and I'm like, and then she's like, so what were you saying? And I was like, okay, I just had the weirdest experience. I told her, I go, I'm upstairs using the bathroom. And then she cuts me off and she goes, let me guess, the hot water turned on all by itself. And I just got the chills. And I'm like, yes. And she goes, you've met one of our ghosts. Wow. And I have racked my brain in the years since thinking, how can you explain that? Yeah. Other than the paranormal. And one person said, they're like, oh, well, it could have been someone downstairs and they turned it on. And I'm like, how? How does somebody turn on the hot water upstairs from downstairs without changing, you know, the actual handle? That's a valve. That's a mechanical valve. And to get it that hot. Makes no sense. Like you said, right. They are cognizant of that, most establishments. And they know not to turn it on that hot where, yeah, you could get burned and then you get sued and then, you know. Totally. I've been in that bathroom. Funny. Yeah. I've been to the place many times back in the day, mid-90s, early 2000s. And every place, well, as you probably know, Dan, from doing all your tours there, LA's comedy clubs especially are notoriously haunted and they give tours. Yeah, a lot of them on the Strip. Right. Places on the Strip are haunted. Comedy store. Comedy store. Yeah. They're all, in the sense that Strip has a long history, you know, the whiskey, a go-go. They're all very storied, lots of energy, lots of tragic stories. Oh, yeah. Right. And so they're all haunted. And in fact, every place I go into, usually there's a vibe. And then sometimes if there's not, you just ask and it's like, oh, yeah, strange stuff happens. Yeah. But generally, if you feel like, is this place haunted, the answer is yes. Yeah. And so, especially in that place, which is also dark and kind of vampiring and kind of creepy and you could just, the place just oozes, you know, that kind of vibe. And so I would expect that. But it's interesting though that you had the encounter with, there's a lot of strange people that frequent it, especially back in the days when I would go there occasionally, you know, and usually they're nice and they're kind of comical. But you've done so much traveling that when you meet somebody like that, it has an impression on you. It has more weight. What did the guy look like? Or the couple look like? They were attractive, very LA looking, like probably, you know, late forties, very fit. And it just seemed the way he looked and smiled, I don't know, just a dark energy. You got a feeling. Uh-huh. Yeah. Just like. Devil in the Diner. Yeah. We have an episode called Devil in the Diner. One of our, it's actually the first interview we ever recorded. And it wound up being like the seventh or eighth episode. Yeah. With a friend of my wife, you know, she's a comedy writer and she, her friend is Paula Pell, who I don't know if you know who she, she was on Girls5eva and SNL forever. Oh, wow. Yeah. Whatever. Genius. But she, this was when she was working at Saturday Night Live in New York and she and her friend at like two or three in the morning saw somebody in a diner that freaked them both out. Yeah. And they described almost exactly what you're talking about with this person coming down the stairs. They wound up fleeing the diner. Oh, wow. And didn't realize they had been separately freaked out, but hadn't told each other inside the restaurant. When they got out on the street, they both started like going crazy about this guy that was in there. Yeah. And so that's really interesting. And I've had other things like that happen. I've had like unexplained sounds, feelings, maybe shadows, but that was the first one that was so concrete. Right. That like mechanically, you know, I couldn't explain it. Like, like my wife's convinced that there's something in our, actually my son's former room in our house. There's always like a weird energy that comes from that space. And actually like when I will work on scared to death or work on, you know, stories, sometimes I would work late at night at my house. I can't do it anymore, especially if I'm a home alone. I start looking up in that direction and thinking I'm seeing stuff and I'm like, okay, all the lights are coming on and I'm done. Like, yeah, I'm done for tonight. 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No aprendas sobre la culebrilla de la manera difícil. Habla hoy con tu doctor o farmacéutico, patrocinado por GSK. This is Danielle Lyons. Thank you for listening to Astonishing Legends. Let's get back to the show. I believe Scott's story, but he was in that, was it Ruth's Chris? I had a bathroom story. So this is the weirdest thing, Dan. I was thinking about this. I'm glad Forrest brought this up because like it's weird segue. Like it's very similar story. It's so strange. My wife and I had gone when we were living in Valley Village and we would sometimes go to the Morton's in Burbank and eat. Oh yeah, I've seen that. Yep. Yeah. So that, you know, that Morton's, it's like in the bottom of like the Sony music building or whatever. Yeah. And so we would go over there and great place to eat. Got a cool vibe for being in an office building. And, you know, I've told this story on our main show, but it was years ago. We had both recently lost a very dear friend. We lived in New York almost 10 years. And during that time or a good portion of it, we had like a little getaway house on the Delaware River in Bucks County. Nice. And so we would go there on the weekends or whenever we could get there, it was only about an hour and 10 minute drive. And there was a neighbor out there who we were very close with, who had grown up there, lived there his whole life. Him and his family were like in three houses all next to each other. Yeah. He was about 10 years older than us. And he would watch after the place when we weren't there. Yeah. And then when we were there, he would invite us over with all the locals to his basement bar. And everybody drank and talked. It was just so much fun. And his name was Don Skiss. You know, he's like a family member. He would like take my son on the snowplow when he was just a baby and he's out plowing the snow and stuff. Don had passed not too long before that. And we used to joke a lot with him. And he, you know, everybody would be like, you know, taking the piss in that family, but from each other and everything. Cause he would write, he wrote Harley's and, and he had gotten too old to have a two wheeled one. So he got one of those three wheeled ones and then everybody was like, oh, look, it's the ice cream man and all that. So there's a lot of like making fun of each other. Sure. I was there at the Morton's at night and I got up to go to the restroom and I go into the bathroom. It has three sinks and they're all the magic eye sinks, right? The sensors where you put your hands under and the water comes up. And so I walk in, none of them are on. I go, at least I think they're, you know, I'd have to go back and hear my own version of the story, but I'm pretty sure none of them were on when I walked in. And then I went over to the urinal and I'm, I'm peeing and I looked down and there's a company and I think it might be global. I don't know. It's national, whatever that does the urinal stuff like cakes and whatever. And they have, they make those filters and it's just the name of the company is Don, D-O-N. And I probably had had a Manhattan myself. I'm like, I'm, so I'm in there and I'm going to the bathroom and I looked down and I saw his name and I kind of had been thinking about him anyway. And I kind of chuckled and, you know, and maybe made like a offhanded joke inside my head. It's like, look, I'm peeing on your name or whatever, something like that. And then like the faucet comes on, no one else is in the bathroom. And so the urinal and the sinks are on the same wall, but I'm like 20 feet from the. Yeah. Yeah. Not even close enough. Yeah. Yeah. So I came back in getting, I'm like, well, I'm going to go wash my hands. I'm done. And I come back in the faucets on and I got like literally the hair stood up on the back of my neck and my arms and everything. And I was like, and I remember thinking, and I was still kind of laughing. I was like, I'm sorry. I was like, do you didn't think that was funny? You know, dear, whatever. Sure. And I was like, but you're still thinking, oh, this is a malfunction with the sink and whatever. And I was like, okay. I was like, that's really strange. And then it turned off by itself. It had come on for like five seconds, I believe. Yeah. And so that was the first faucet of the three. So I went to the one on the far left and I like reached under and I started washing my hands. And then the one next to me, the next one came on by itself too. That's weird too. Cause I've, I've literally never had that happen. And I've used those kinds of faucets. Yeah. I was just like, I was just like a million times. And I was like, oh my, it's, I was like, it is you. Of course, you know, now that since we've done the show for so many years, what I've learned, or at least I've come to this philosophy that you don't always know what you're interacting with. But for me in my head, it was Don messing with me or saying hello or something like that. But so, yeah. So the first one came on by itself. Then it turned off. Then the second one, while I was washing my hands, it came on by itself and also turned off. And then after that, like I finished and dried my hands, I stood back and I went and checked all the sensors and they were functioning completely normally. There was nothing going on with, I don't know what temperature the water was cause I didn't check it. But like, that's the thing is that generally there's no, you can't control. It's just a warm, it's a warm setting. Yeah. And you know, like I said, I believe your story, but people could say like, oh, it's an electronic sensor. Sometimes those malfunction. I have looked into that though. But like, yeah, I've looked into that. But Dan's story, it's like you physically, it's a mechanical thing. That's an actual valve. Yeah. That's different, but it's like water coming on in the bathroom though. It's weird that those stories are even that similar. And the feeling, accompany it and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a common thing. Well, faucets, whatever, ghosts love faucets. That's just that they love water, they love plumbing, fixtures, they love turning the water on. Okay. Let's change gears here for a minute. So Dan, one of the things we wanted to talk to you about tonight was Rasputin because I mean, you just did such an amazing job covering him back in 2017 on Time Sucks. So much great research, but it ties into what we were just talking about because this is another one of those people that seems to dominate whatever room he's in, like be the total focal point. People just seemed absolutely obsessed with him, right? It was crazy the effect he had on people. I will say, you know, so much of that with him also came down to timing where early 20th century in Russia. And then also like, you know, coming out of the late 19th century, just like spiritualism was huge in America. I mean, and he went whole hog, like his brother drowned and then he goes to the monasteries and like, it's like, he really dove into that. So there's this fascination with the occult. There's, there's a lot of very odd Christian denominations. I want to say like cults, but they weren't necessarily cults. They were just very extreme, small denominations called like one was called, I believe the Christie's. Yes. They were very, you know, into like a gifts of the spirit, speaking in tongues, this revival type atmosphere where they would have these huge get togethers, these tent revival type get togethers where they're spinning around and they're cutting off each other's oxygen. They're literally like choking each other there. There was rumors that they would devolve into orgies. It was like this crazy, like ecstatic gathering. And that was a known thing. There was another, even more extreme group that I want to look up their names. Cause I'd forgot the scopsies, the scopsies. This is insane. They believed that genital castration brought you closer to God. And these people removed everything. I mean, like the whole kit and caboodle, not just the boys and the women would remove their breasts and their genitals in these surgeries that would often be botched. They were not performed by a doctor. They were just performed by another member of this group. No, thank you. Yeah. Just alcohol for your painkiller. And there's more. So there's all these different groups going around. There is, you know, people like in America, looking to the occult seances, that kind of thing. Faith healing was a big thing, you know, as medicines, not quite advanced. And so he comes out of that. And yes, he, uh, you know, he got his introduction to religion when he went to this monastery. To me, looking back, it's like, oh, he was such a blatant grifter. He was a notorious womanizer. He was a drunk. And before he became the mad monk and wandering around Russia, he had seven kids with this wife, four lived. But, you know, so he has these four kids at home, his wife cheating on her all the time. And then he actually went to a monastery because he was accused of stealing a horse, I believe. A horse or a donkey. I think a horse. And it was a sanctuary. So he goes to the monastery to hide so he can't be arrested. And, you know, back then you could die from that kind of conviction. You know, horse thieves were not tolerated. And then he miraculously finds God, how convenient, while he's hiding from the authorities. He eventually comes back home. I'm a changed man. I'm not a womanizer. Well, no, he's just part of this cult-like offshoot of Christianity where now he's holding revival meetings in the basement that allegedly also devolved into orgies. And his story is so crazy. And it should have just ended there. He should have been a small-time hustler. Yeah. But, like, he gets this vision, supposedly. I don't think he got a vision. I think he just saw an opportunity to head, you know, west to go to St. Petersburg to find the Romanov family. Yeah. The Romanovs, they'd had their spiritual advisor die. Before he died, he's like, you know, you will find a new one soon. Some kind of vision of, like, another one's going to take my place. And you'll know him when you see him kind of thing. He heard through back channels, like, this kind of stuff was going on. And he approached the Romanov family through the Crow sisters, I believe, who were, like, relatives. They were very into the occult. So, like, there was all these opportunities for him. But the biggest thing that hooked him in with the Romanovs is their son, Alexei. And I'm pulling this from memory, so I think. But Alexei was a hemophiliac. Yeah. He gets a cut on his leg. It's bleeding. The doctors are trying to help him. Well, the doctors back then, they didn't know that aspirin thinned your blood. So, they're giving him aspirin. And so, he just keeps bleeding. Well, then Rasputin just takes, I think, a shot in the dark. And he's like, I can heal him, but, you know, get away from him. Let me heal him. Well, when he had the doctors get away from him, they stopped giving him aspirin. So, his blood is thinned. It is able to clot a little bit. And once the doctors are removed, he stops bleeding, coincides with Rasputin being there. And, man, he is in now. And over the next couple years, it was bonkers what he got away with. He was sleeping with everybody around the staff. They had the police follow him because, you know, people are suspicious in the Romanoff circle. Yes. He would have multiple prostitutes a day that he is taking into bathhouses, extreme stuff. He's whipping them and then having sex with them. He convinces some of the people around the Romanoffs that his actual penis is a sacrament. And so, he will get people to fellate him thinking they are receiving the sacrament of the second coming of Christ. Oh, my God. It just kept getting more and more extreme. Yeah, it was so bonkers. And wasn't he supposedly having an affair with the Tsar's wife as well? Yeah, the Tsarina? Yeah, the Tsarina, yeah. They think so. So many things are alleged. We'll never know for sure, but very possibly. Yeah. Alexandra, who was the one who, because out of desperation, we've seen this before, is that when you have a sick child, you'll, at some point, when nothing else works, you're so desperate, you'll try anything. And here you have this man who comes with a legend already built in. And the question I'm going to head towards here with you is that since birth, it was reported or part of his personal legend and how his cult of personality built. He was born when there was a comet in the sky in three days. And so you have this auspice in the sky. And as a child, he was described as very strange and standoffish and spooky. And, but he could, he was said to have cured farm animals of their illnesses. He was able to eventually cure people, villagers, neighbors thought he could read their minds. Yeah. So then you do wonder, it's like, okay, was there anything there? There might be. So I was going to ask you, do you believe that that kind of thing is possible? You know, it's so tricky because I think of somebody like a really good at like cold reading and how they're able to make people think they're speaking to the dead. And I am not opposed at all to that gift being real. And I, in fact, think that some people probably can do that. Right. But when you watch a grifter do it. Yeah. Really good. They can be very good at like doing this cold reading. I think Rasputin probably was very good at those kinds of things, like a natural born con man. But also he might've had some kind of weird occult gifts, you know. Yeah. Why can't it be both? That's something we say on the show all the time. Why can't it be multiple things happening at once? Totally. Yeah. Logically, it's all of this or none of this. Or something in between. And I often kind of believe that. And he was pretty evil. He was, I think, a pretty evil guy. That's the other thing I think people forget too when you, especially when you talk about folklore or legends or, you know, people like Rasputin. All of them are just people. And plenty of them, they might be famous or doing something crazy that's been talked about for generations. But some of them are jerks. You know, they're like, they're not good humans. Even if you take all that other stuff away. He could be the deal with the devil guy for sure. I mean, he abandoned his family. He allegedly raped a lot of women. You know, he was very aggressive sexually. Yeah. And he seemed to have no moral compass. There's nothing he wouldn't, I don't think, I think he was capable of doing almost anything. Quick aside, have either one of you seen The King's Man? No. The sequel to The King's Man movie? Oh, yes. Okay. Okay. Well, so there's an actor in that movie. His name is Rhys Ifans. I'm not sure how you pronounce his last name. I-F-A-N-S. Yeah. He's been a lot of great actors. He plays Rasputin in it. And so I don't know if you saw Kingsman, the first one, which was, you know, a lot, you know, it's like a kind of a British Secret Service kind of thing. Oh, yeah. I saw that one. So this is the follow-up, but it's also kind of a prequel thing because it takes place in 1902. And that guy, Rhys, plays Rasputin, and he is unbelievable. And there is a fight sequence that is just one of the best I've ever seen in a movie. And it's Rasputin, and he's doing all this magical crazy crap. It is like, but it really, it plays into like, it's funny because you watch that or you see that character in that movie and you're like, this is ridiculous. Yeah. And then I'm like, I'm listening to your episode on Rasputin from 2017. And I was like, it's actually weirder than it was in the movie. I mean, the stuff in the movie was not only was that all true, but it's even stranger, the reality of that guy. He was so strange. He was so intense. There was some kind of weird energy around him. Many, many people spoke to that. His eyes were very hypnotic. He was a Cretan. He would just do stuff like pick his nose and eat it at like a royal dinner. He stunk horrifically. He rarely bathed. He's having sex all the time. I mean, God knows how many venereal diseases he may have had, you know, and he was a high a lot of the time, you know, some of his quote unquote faith healing with like the Romanovs. Well, he was supplying Nicholas, the czar with cocaine, morphine and opium, you know, to take his pain away. And, but they didn't know what that stuff truly was back then. So it's like, you know, he became this drug dealer, but to them, he could be perceived as like folk medicine. And why do you make me feel so good when my doctors can't? And yeah, he was a mix of a lot of things. I think, you know, he's on a lot of drugs. He morally bankrupt, but there also was this weird X factor where maybe he sold his soul to some kind of demon or something. I mean, God, it seems possible. On that note, dialing the, uh, the woo meter all the way to, out of the right or the left, I don't know, pick your, uh, your, your end on one end of the scale on the, uh, on the radio dial. 11. Yeah. 11. Going up to 11. It's like, he's been mentioned several times that I think, uh, some ancient aliens episodes. And one clip I just recently saw was talking about not necessarily alien, alien, but like external existential, a threatening beings that are non-human coming or being, uh, involved in earth matters to influence us and steer things as, as they sometimes do. And it's not always good. Uh, I believe there are good influences and good people who kind of by hook or by crook or whatever their intent are, uh, are the angels that kind of steer us towards good or, or sometimes they're involved in miracles. And then sometimes of course, uh, with the balance of the universe is that they're sometimes not good. And the supposition or wondering is that, was he not saying that he's not human, but is he influenced in some way by some non-human force? Because now he's involved in world politics, uh, from a very unlikely and impossible outside route somehow, you know, as you, as people know, he was a peasant, they don't mix with the upper class. You're the Siberian peasant. Yeah. Siberian peasant. And the fact that he was so just physically and personally repulsive, but it didn't matter that he had such pull. And so your story there talking about, uh, when you mentioned that, that couple at the rainbow instantly made me think of an anecdote that I read in, uh, strange intruders by David Weatherly and he talks about energy vampires, which you were talking about as well. And I think you can, uh, take it away or give it to people as well. Yeah. You could reverse the flow, but in, in Rasputin's thing, it's like, how do you hook people? Is that, well, you can't be all evil. Eventually like people don't like that. And they will, you know, as he'll, you'll meet the same end eventually, or just be shunned. So you're not effective for what you're trying to influence. Yeah. So you do a bunch of good acts and then that gets people on your side. He's like, well, he healed, uh, my farm animals or they were sick and that, or the cow wasn't producing milk and he, he was able to cure it. He healed my son, whatever it is that gets you in. And then you're able to do even more, uh, dastardly deeds. But this one anecdote, cause it reminded me also that a young woman was at a, a New York nightclub with a group of friends and this other group of friends had this other, and I always wonder about this too. Like how do people meet these kinds of people? She was with this other group of friends that had a stranger with them. Or it's like, oh, this is so-and-so, uh, friend and she's visiting. She was, uh, you know, young or, you know, in her thirties, uh, demure Japanese woman and, uh, just kind of quiet. But the woman who's telling the anecdote said there's just something off about her. Like she, I know she had a, like a bucket hat pulled over, but like you, you look, you couldn't see her face very well, even though she's five feet away, there's just something not right about her. And so she was mesmerized and she couldn't take her focus. There's the Woody Allen movie where he was out of focus. Yeah, the DP. He was the only one. The DP and the director of photography is, uh, right. The worst thing that could happen to you. Uh, but there was something about her that just keyed her off. And then there's the other chilling part. It's like the people that you met at the Rainbow or Paula Pell. The other person notices that you noticed them. They now know, oh, you're feeling the effect, aren't you? Yeah, because that's, that is what happened in Paula's story. Did the couple that came down the stairs, they look you in the eye? Did the guy look you in the eye? Yes. Yeah, no, they, they know they're aware of the effect that you have on them and they use that to their advantage, much like Rasputin. But finally, the, the young Japanese woman. And I, and I mentioned that because, you know, often we, we perceive them as being demure and genteel. And she's like the, the person you should not be fearing out of that whole group in a New York nightclub, you know, or two in the morning. And so the woman notices, the Japanese woman notices the effect she's having, like this, she can't stop focusing on her. And she gives this really kind of creepy, sick smile. And then she reaches out and just with her index, like pokes her or touches her in her midsection, her stomach. And she instantly felt like she was going to collapse. Like she felt all the energy just kind of drain out of her and she was woozy and like just had to leave. And, and the other kind of, she kind of grin and giggled the Japanese woman. It's like, I got to go, like something happened here. I got to go. And she was like really ill for the next three days. So strange. And just drained of energy. So I do believe that they're, you know, I don't know the people telling the story. They walk among us. Well, there, there are energy type vampires. They can either do it through talk or just being around you or by touch, but they are aware Maybe she was a master in dim Mac, death point striking. That's a five finger death point. Yeah. Like the five palm, or the palm exploiting heart. Yeah. That's, that requires multiple acupressure points. But the thing is that, yeah, there's, there's something like that. And we do, you know, bringing it back to Rasputin, it's like, I'm sure there was, because he also touched people. There's something about touch, the mesmerism with the eyes. That's also a big thing about being able to affect that just with the gaze, with the, the focus of the eyes. And you said pivotal moment, like, you know, like what if there were these kind of beings sent in to kind of like steer the earth in different directions? If we're going to follow that theory, that possibility with Rasputin, I mean, the effect he had on world history, modern history is immense where the Romanov family, you know, I think they'd been around three centuries in power. There was another family that was a, for more centuries before that they'd been in power for a long time. And towards the end of the Romanov's reign, things weren't, you know, going well, Russia wasn't doing so well in some wars and things. However, if you remove Rasputin from the Romanov family, do they still get killed? Do the Bolsheviks still win their revolution? And there are arguments that they don't. And obviously, like the Bolshevik revolution, you know, in Russia following World War I changed the history of the world dramatically. I mean, there would be no Cold War. There would be no Stalin. Also, I mean, Hitler may have won World War II if it wasn't for the power of Soviet Russia being able to stop him on the, you know, the Eastern front there. So it's like, it's crazy to think about how the world might look today if you just literally remove that one person. Exactly. Yeah. You know, some folks with knowledgeable about history may know, like the English around World War I, we're not happy with the Russians' position and them, you know, possibly being removed from World War I or not fighting. And they weren't doing, like you said, they weren't doing well. Russia as a country was starving. Yeah. And there's a change that needed to happen. Had Nicholas the Tsar still been in power, as weak of a leader as he is, yeah, it would have changed the course of history most likely. Yeah. So now you come in, you have somebody that comes in as a catalyst for this massive change and world events change. And so was that the purpose or had Rasputin's personality or if he just played his cards better and stayed in power, could it have been even greater change or for something that was more nefarious? Right. Yeah. He's a very unique historical person. I was trying to think even as you're talking, I'm like of somebody similar to Rasputin, somebody who had so much influence out of nowhere, somebody who shouldn't have been there. I mean, maybe there are some people in the courts of various Roman emperors, possibly historical figures lost somewhat to history. I don't know. I can't think of a comparative person. Well, as a solid person, there's been tons of stories, though, of interference, you could say, or just nudging. I think even George Washington claimed there was an apparition that appeared to him and gave some guidance or encouragement. Because if you look at it, again, these impossible things like America should not have won the Revolutionary War. Correct. Just the numbers were not there for them to have the effect that they did. And so it was very unlikely that we would come out as winners and a country from that and not get taken over once then and also in 1812. So history is full of these stories where somebody was, I mean, Lincoln had visions. Yeah. Everybody has this kind of spiritual or otherworldly presence where something comes in and at some kind of, it could be a lucid dream. It could be an apparition or a vision of a being that kind of nudges them along in a good or bad way. Right. And usually it's, usually often the story you hear, it's for the good. It's like, hey, you need to do this. And then they have the confidence to go do or follow directions and it changes the course of history. So that's kind of the idea I was getting at is that there is a larger influence that is not strictly human or just people's imaginations. I think there are, you know, we, we are influenced in some way and steered here and there. Yeah. It makes me think in the best of ways about like the smoking man from the X-Files, which was one of my favorite shows growing up, but you know, like, but these players behind the scenes that are possibly steering, you know, world events, which, uh, you know, I'm very open to that possibility. It makes me think of, you know, following like the, the first detonations of the atomic bomb. It wasn't very long after that, that all of a sudden so many UFO sightings all over the place where it's like, did we get some people's attention? Did they have to come down more in a show of bigger force to kind of steer things in a better direction to keep us from annihilating ourselves? I don't know. Well, speaking of the X-Files, there is that one episode. I remember the, uh, the woman who I think Mueller starts to see her and all these historical photos standing behind all the great world leaders. And she says, well, you know, I was offered a three wishes and I wished for a sack of turnips initially because, you know, we were starving. So that's, I thought like a never ending sack of turnips would be the answer, but then, uh, you're kind of a mortal and then you're influencing people. The same thing when, when we covered, uh, Saint Germain, where he's now got the ear of all these, the most important people because he's such a charismatic figure, but more for the good. Yeah. He's very reserved personally. Yeah. That's one of the things, nobody ever really saw him eat when he had these, uh, large dinner parties, except a gruel he would eat. And, uh, so he was much more reserved, but he did seem to show up and start influencing people in a more subtle way. So yeah, you do, you do wonder about, you know, that's the more dramatic part of it where the, you know, the person's who's a mortal, you know, and just kind of like showing up throughout history. And if you have enough time and influence, the secret empire, you could build with your influence. Yeah. I'm just getting to know people. And, and, uh, I do think that there are influences. I don't know, you know, who or, or what or when, but like, yeah, I was just noticing there are tons of stories like that where you have to dig because that's not in the usual, uh, in the usual history books, but like somebody will have had a vision or they saw somebody or, you know, it's Alexander the Great down to Lincoln. And I'm sure it still continues where people are like, I was going to do this. And then I just had a thought in my head and I decided to, uh, you know, rule the other way. Charisma itself is such an interesting, just characteristic. I made me think of like, you know, Dungeons and Dragons where it's like, you know, you come up with your character and you roll for charisma and stuff. But like, then that just led me to thinking like, what an odd attribute that is like, what even is that? Why does some people have this hypnotic sway of others that is intangible? Like could charisma itself have some sort of supernatural aspect? Yeah. That's a good question. Yeah. That we don't understand yet. Cause like, why are some people, and I've heard that about some politicians, I don't want to get, you know, polarizing now, but I've heard about like some politicians that, you know, a lot of people hate and a lot of people like. Yeah. And then you hear these stories about like, so-and-so hates them, but then they get into the room with them and they feel almost hypnotized. I met Bill Clinton a long time ago. Oh, I've heard he's one of them. Like wildly charismatic. Yeah. Yeah. It was, all I did was shake his hand, you know, but like it was, it was, you could sense it like coming off of him. What is that? It's wild. I don't know. And again, I'm through my wife, you know, cause I went to the whole time she was at SNL. I of course went to every thing. And I met a lot of people that were like that because they rise to the top when they're actors or whatever. I mean, what a power they have. Yeah. It's really wild. You can't be trained or learned. It just, it reminded me of my friend, John. He's taught English in Japan and Taiwan for 30, 40 years now. And I think this is when he was in Taiwan and he's, he's not a woo-woo guy. He's not, he's mildly interested, but he, he did go to an exhibition in this park. I believe in Taiwan where Tai Chi master was going to be there. And he, it's like, oh, everybody's heard of this guy, you know, all the locals. And it's like, okay, he's just going to give a talk and be there. So I think he had a friend who showed him, was able to introduce him and he's, and he didn't really know, like I said, much about, he doesn't practice Tai Chi, but he went up and I think he was introduced to this guy. I think without even touching him, he said, you could just feel what the Asian world would call key or martial arts, you call it key or chi, you know, it's that energy. And for the good, he said, like, you just felt like, whoa, I just got a charge of like positive energy from this guy. Like he's just radiating it. And that is, you know, that is from his practice and being a master and cultivating it. And I'm sure learning some ancient techniques. I mean, I've done Tai Chi a little bit, but nothing like to that spiritual level, but that reminds me too of like, I've never done this, but my wife has. She's more open to this stuff than I've been historically Reiki, like the Reiki massage where you're not being touched. And she has told me the craziest stories of like feeling like you're not touched, but you feel this type of energy. You feel something in the room and moments, the person practicing it on you, they feel something. I had an experience where I was not feeling this, but like, it was a very intense experience. I did that, uh, toad venom, that bufo that, Oh, you did what you did that? Yeah. The God molecule, that really powerful psychedelic. I, I, I like psychedelics and, but that's, I've only done that one once. Yeah. And it was the most intense experience I've ever had in my life where it felt like I was dying. Like I was out in space, but like such a powerful feeling. And I felt like I purged all these negative blocks, this emotions. And the guy who gave it to me that his was kind of a practitioner and some of that stuff and would help people with PTSD and other things. Not that I had that, but like, he goes, I don't know where you went, but he goes, I felt this negative energy blast off of you. That was so powerful. It pushed me back against the wall. I mean, I didn't see him experience that, but I certainly felt different. And I'm like, how, what is that? What, where does that come from? Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition. If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of or artificial sweeteners do all the heavy lifting. It's basically dessert in disguise. You shouldn't have to choose between tasty and nutritious. And that's what makes Aloha stand out. Aloha protein bars nail the delicious and nutritious. They're USDA organic and made with ingredients that actually grow somewhere. It's their whole taste that grows philosophy. Plant-based ingredients grown in the ground, thoughtfully sourced, and built to keep you satisfied. 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Al llegar a los 50, ya había aprendido algunas cosas, como el valor de la familia, la importancia del trabajo y que el 99% de las personas de más de 50 ya tienen el virus que causa la culebrilla. Aunque no todas las personas en riesgo la desarrollarán, yo sí la sufrí. La erupción dolorosa con ampollas duró semanas, haciendo que incluso las tareas más simples sean todo un reto. No aprendas sobre la culebrilla de la manera difícil. Habla hoy con tu doctor o farmacéutico. Patrocinado por GSK. Forrest and Scott, thank you for supporting their sponsors. I'm Keely. Now back to the show. I was going to save this story, but as I was mentioning to you, Dan, before we started rolling, yesterday I went to the Ryan Institute here in Durham, North Carolina, which is the organization that started out as part of Duke University studying parapsicology. By the way, the Ryan's daughter, their daughter, I can't remember her first name, it might be Sally, her last name is Feather. She's still with us, 95, and still with us, by the way. So I didn't meet her, but there were other folks there we're talking about, maybe interviewing her soon. But anyway, so I'm there and I got a tour of the facility from the current managing director, who I think has been there 15 years at this point, maybe longer. And he does scientific experiments there at the Rhine. And he's been doing a study, I think, for several years, seven, eight, maybe more. And it involves hundreds of subjects coming into the Rhine. And he has a room that I went in yesterday called the double dark room. And so the walls are painted black. The door has special plates on it so that when it's closed, no light can come in. And then on top of that, the room outside of it, whenever somebody's in the double dark room, he's trying to go to total blackness, they shut the light off in the room outside and shut that door as well. And so it becomes a very, very, very, very dark room. Yeah. I took a picture of it. It's all black. So the, but he was like, this is my favorite part of the tour. I want to tell you about the study I've been doing. Duke University, they still, obviously, they talk to each other. It's right there in town. And, or, you know, in Chapel Hill, which is not very far away, like 20 minutes. Some folks were doing a medical study to try, and I think it was to identify, and I'll get the real story from this gentleman. His name's John G. Kruth, by the way, K-R-U-T-H. I think they were, these two, at least a couple of guys, researchers at Duke were working to try and come up with an easy way to identify the presence, I think, of muscular dystrophy. And somehow it involved light. And so these guys had done this whole big study, and they had all this gear. And then, like, before they finished it, some other really simple test came out, and it just nullified all the work they'd been doing, which, you know, this happens inside. They weren't, you know, they were just like, all right, well, we can move on to something else. But they brought the gear, and they were like, we should take this over to Rhine. So they took this gear, and they gave it to the Rhine Institute, and they were like, you should study healers. And I'm bringing this up, because we have naturally segued into Reiki and stuff like that here a minute ago. So in this room that I was in, there was an infrared camera, Hughes manufactured, like a very sophisticated infrared camera. And then in addition to that, like an engineer would use somewhere. And then a thing called a biopack, which is in the medical practice, it's, you know, it's for measuring electromagnetic energy on your own body. It's like a hospital thing. It's not like a woo-woo thing, you know, Scientology thing. It's like a real life medical gear. Yeah. And then a photon sensor. And this was the coolest thing. I can't remember what the actual name for this thing was. I took a picture of it. It's like a metal box. If you looked at it, you wouldn't have any. It looks like the little black robot from Star Wars. But it's just a box with things on it, and it has a little aperture. And this thing can sense as little as one photon of light. Oh, my God. So what he has been doing is rounding up healers, people who say that they're healers, and remote healers, Reiki, Qigong, I think it is, if I'm saying that right, all the different kinds. Yeah. As well as martial artists, senseis who have a high degree of aptitude in their martial art. Yeah. And bringing them into this room, turning off all the lights, turning on the photon sensor and the infrared camera, and then asking them to do their thing. Mm-hmm. And what he has found, categorically, with proof, I mean, this blew my mind when he told me this, was that these folks, he goes in, it's only about 10% of them. 90% of people, nothing happening. And it was so fascinating, too. He said, you know, like, first of all, we all glow a little bit. So a person goes in this room, no matter who you are, four or five photons will be detected in the pitch black coming off of a human body. He said, if someone eats shrimp for lunch, he has to know what they've had, because shrimp glow. And he goes, he had a person come in once who had had shrimp, and when they opened their mouth, like, all these photons came out. Whoa. So it's like you're having, and then another person came wearing a sweater that had been washed in phosphates, and the person had to take the sweater off and go back in. So it's all this, like, different things that he's doing. And he's being very scientific about the results, and, you know, because the Rhein Institute, they study this stuff that's out there, but they do it in a very scientific way. That's their whole goal. And so what he said was about 10% of these folks who claimed to be, or not didn't claim to be, like people who were healers, or in some cases maybe claimed to be healers, or martial artists who obviously are definitely masters of their art. Yeah. When they would get in this dark room, and the lights were off, and they would do their thing, they would emit light, are you ready for this, from their palms. What? Both of their hands, and up here in your forehead, where people say the third eye is. Yes. Photons were coming. He has recorded this in numerous individuals. And he was like, it is a consistent thing, and somehow they are emitting focused light from their bodies. Is it shooting out, too, like a Street Fighter 2 thing? You know, I didn't ask that. I was so slack-jawed, I didn't ask the right questions. Hadouken. Yeah, exactly. Or Iron Man. Like, I don't, it's just like, but whatever it is, they were really doing this. And he said some folks, only a very, much, much, much smaller percentage of the people who could do this were, like, off the charts. Like, 16 million photons, like, coming out of them when they were doing their thing. To clarify, so you're saying they're doing this in a completely pitch black room. Pitch black room. I actually asked to sit in there with it off for a little time, and they did it. I sat in there for, like, 10 minutes. And it's- It freaked you out? Yeah. I didn't melt down or anything. I was very calm. So I was wearing my, like, super white, I had these really, like, flat white, they're not Converse, they're Nikes, but just, like, you know, they're the nice, like, really flat, almost like chucks or low-top chucks. And they're super white leather, you know, with just a gold swoop on them. And they were so bright, I was like, I know I'm going to be able to see these a little bit. And I couldn't see them on my feet. I put my hand in front of my face, like, literally, I was going back and forth with it, inches away from my face. I could feel the wind, I could feel the heat from my hand, couldn't see it. So that's how dark it is. But for clarification, another person in that room would not be able to see the light coming from the third eye and the two palms. No, no, the infrared camera picks it up. Yes, it's not in the visible spectrum. Okay, that's the question. Yes, sorry, I should have said that. Yeah, just not in the visible spectrum. Photons are being detected and measured and tracked, but somebody else in there would not be able to see it. It's an invisible force. But still, there is a measurement of the very basic building block of light, a photon. Yeah. Was he able to detect any other kind of electromagnetic or any kind of other energy or force? This experiment was very focused on one thing, which I think they always kind of are. But he did suggest, or during the course of explaining this stuff to us, we were talking a little bit about electromagnetic energy and EMP meters that ghost hunters use and all that stuff. And he said, people do emit that, but it's like, you have to get sensors literally in contact with the skin to measure it. Yeah. Because it does not come off of people. And so... Is it connected to Kirlian photography? No, it's not. And it's funny you should mention that because our friend, Dan, I don't know if you know who she is, but this is a woman I was talking about earlier. Her name's Allison Jornlin. She owns a ghost walk company with her brother and has been on our show several times. That was her next question. Was it, did it have anything to do with Kirlian photography? And he said, no, it's completely unrelated. And on top of that, Kirlian photography is, he explained it actually. He was like, it's basically just science. He explained how it worked. It's not like the famous photo of the leaf that you can still see half. They took half the leaf away between the two plates and you can still see it. And everyone's like, oh, it's an outline of the leaf's existence. And he was like, it was moisture from the leaf that was still on the plates. And so he explained, he was like, we've studied that. It's not a thing. It's really cool. He goes, it's very, makes great art and all that. But he was like, but that's entirely unrelated to what we were just talking about. Just quickly for folks and using the AI assist here, bringing it back to Soviet Russia. Yeah. Yes. Just a brief explanation here. So Kirlian photography is a technique that captures images of electrical coronal discharges around objects, often creating a glowing effect that resembles an aura. It was discovered in 1939 by Soviet scientist Semyon Kirlian when he connected an object to a high voltage source and placed it on a photographic plate. So I'm sure a lot of people will, we'll talk about the opening of the X-Files. One of the images that comes in the montage, that's a Kirlian. So people, as we know, we generate electricity. You're seeing a little bit of that, even though it's invisible, but it has some kind of effect. And so then you wonder if it's all connected. But what he's saying is that it's not connected in that way because this is a different force. Yeah. There's no connection to Kirlian photography. And on top of that, he seemed to be saying that's actually a natural process. There's not a supernatural or paranormal process, which he explained. And I can't do it. We'll have him on the show and maybe he can explain it. He said the next thing he wants to do with the study is they have another room there and he wants to bring the person being healed, put them in the other room and then have the healer be, you know, this wouldn't, martial arts wouldn't necessarily do this, but I, you know, I don't know, maybe if somebody wanted to punch someone from another room, but like because he has another photon detector, put another one in the other room and see if the light is actually traveling to the other person. And because as you know, anybody knows with it, because I've actually had folks, because we have friends that practice Reiki and I've had them do sessions on me from many states away. So like, how does that work? You know? It's the same, Scott, you know, yeah, the same principle as I'll say it here and Dan can take a drink, remote viewing. Yeah. That's one of our old chestnut bugaboo words here, but they just, there's no matter. Yeah. Some people get so mad when you say. Yeah. Generally time or space, because I think it depends on what you're doing. It's like, why could, uh, you know, of course, Rasputin wanted to travel that distance, be in the court and because he's a very physical guy, but you could do, then you could do the healing remotely as with Reiki, or you could do the laying on of hands because I think that's a direct transfer. It's more effective. Uh, so there's something also about the touch and there, as we know, like what, that's what Curlian photography is suggesting. There is a physical thing that's very close and very localized. So I do think there's, there's two different things, but there's no time or space is, does not matter. I think in some of these kinds of connections and some of the weirdest stories, I'm sure Dan, you come across where, well, one that we were talking about earlier about, uh, spirituality and spiritism and spiritualism do different things in that, uh, when we covered the Watsika wonder, there were things that you were talking about cold reading and the young girl, Laurency Venom, who was the young girl who claimed to have been possessed or had knowledge of this other younger girl in, uh, you know, one of her peers, she knew things that could not be picked up by cold reading. And so she was claiming that, no, the spirit of this other girl is telling me these things. And the psychologist at the time talking about, uh, uh, William James, the father of American psychology, what they were claiming was that, no, I don't think it's this other spirit giving the words, but what it is, is psychic ability. What we found fascinating is that they didn't really want to believe in spirits inhabiting people and informing you through some kind of connection, but they were believing in and wholeheartedly behind psychic ability. And she's picking it up from your mind subconsciously. You're not even realizing you're giving her the answers. So I thought that was fascinating, but, but there was no time or space with that either. It's all that, that Akashic record. So, uh, but before I forget, speaking of, have either of you two known anybody that could see auras and, uh, my follow-up question, Mr. Cummins is, uh, has your, has your wife seen or experienced anything strange? I mean, I've read about, you know, people who, you know, like talk about, you know, being able to see auras and that stuff. I've had conversations with people I've just met, like fans and stuff who they have claimed to be able to see auras. I can't even remember what they said that my aura was. I've, I've been around that. I've never been around somebody I've known well who claims to have that ability. And then with my wife, as far as paranormal experiences, I don't think she's had something as mechanical for lack of a better term, as I said, like with the bathroom and stuff, but she has definitely, um, had some experiences when she was younger around like Ouija boards where some very strange messages came through that she doesn't understand how anybody playing the game could have known that message. Right. Yeah. You know, like, like there was a relative that died, uh, you know, right before she had played one game and that things that came through freaked her out to the point that she won't ever mess around with one of those again. That's a good call. So yeah, yeah. So yeah, so she's, I mean, a few, uh, Ouija stories that are just, it's like, let's not, let's just, let's take this out of the equation. Yeah. Yeah. So she's, so she's had a number of those things. She's had things, you know, happen around her that she is convinced is, you know, uh, a message from the ghost of so-and-so. Uh, so she's very, very, very much a believer. Have you read, or has she read, um, Siren Call of the Hungry Ghost? Have you read that book? I haven't. I don't think she has either. Find it. Find it. Okay. I'm going to write it down. Yeah. Find it. It's, uh, it's amazing. It'll freak you out because it's, that's the one that taught us never to trust what you're talking to. We've done a number of those stories, you know, that we've just found online where it's like, I mean, I don't want them to be true because they're horrific. Yeah. So that was, that was my next question, by the way, you've been so generous with your time. Oh, no, thanks. I don't want to keep too much longer, but like, I, I want to know, uh, for you, as we said at the top of the show, you've done easily, you know, almost 170 more episodes than we have just of your regular show, not to mention the other ones and the bonus shows and all that stuff. You're so prolific. But my question to you is, um, you know, people ask us this sometimes and I'm curious with you, uh, because I'm not familiar with your entire catalog. Oh, of course not. What is the thing that has stuck with you the most or that changed your outlook? I don't think anything will ever trump this for me. It was such a powerful like story for me. And it definitely pivoted me from being skeptical of this world, but fascinated to still fascinated, but a believer. And it's the story of Tara Sita Bassa. I don't know if you're familiar. Okay. No, I don't know why. I don't know why I know it. You know, it's funny. There's not, you can find like through like newspapers.com, you can find old newspaper articles about it. You can find a couple, uh, journalism pieces, but, but not a lot actually, which is interesting to me because it is such a fascinating story. The cliff notes of this story is that this nurse, this woman comes over from the Philippines to Chicago, I believe in the seventies. I mean, it's been a while since I've looked at the source material, but I know that the, the, the core elements I'm getting correct here. She has a background in music. She was a gifted pianist, comes over, can't find a career for herself in music, but ends up getting a nursing degree. And she works at this hospital in Chicago. So while she's working at this hospital in Chicago, she's in her forties, I believe now she's teaching piano lessons on the side. So she does have people that she doesn't know coming in and out of her apartment in this high rise she lives in to receive these lessons. Well, one day she gets murdered. They weren't broken in. So it was somebody she knew, or was she, she was given a lesson to, and there are signs of possibly a sexual assault, the way the body was staged. And I say staged because it turns out it was, she's found nude. Uh, somebody had piled some stuff on top of her. They had burned those things to maybe mask what had really happened. Oh, see, I think I've heard. Yeah. Yeah. We did talk about this, Scott. And, uh, yeah, but we'll let Dan finish her, but it involves a court case. Please do. Please do. Yes. Yes. It's a crazy story where the police have zero leads. She was very well liked. She lived alone, no known enemies, no known altercations with anybody. Yes. I remember the story. Okay. Yes. Okay. Oh, it's so good where a month or two go by and they're, the case is dead. They don't know if things were stolen or not. They don't even know for sure if she was sexually assaulted. They have no suspects whatsoever. And then the two detectives that were assigned this case to get a call from the captain of another precinct, who's like, Hey, so-and-so is claiming they have information on the Teresita Basa case. I think you should go talk to them. Well, this person is a doctor at another hospital. So they go to talk to this doctor, the doctor, his wife randomly also is Filipino, but didn't know Teresita personally, but it turns out just for full disclosure, they took an orientation course together at the hospital like years before, but don't stay in touch. So they've been in each other's presence. They've been in each other's presence one time for a few days, never since. And this doctor, I guess he asked the investigators, the first thing he says is, do you believe in ghosts? And the one officer later said in some articles, you know, by like the Boston Globe and the Chicago Tribune and some interviews at that time, he's thinking, great, I have wasted my time. This guy's a quack. This is going to go nowhere, but he, but he's already there. He has no lead. So he's like, I'll hear him out. Well, this doctor tells him that a few weeks before his wife woke him up in the middle of the night. This, his wife, also Filipino, also a nurse wakes him up in the middle of the night and is in a trance-like state and is speaking in a voice unfamiliar to him and is claiming to be somebody else. It's claiming to be Teresita Bassa, but he doesn't know who that is. Right. It's claiming to be this woman who was murdered and is urging him to go to the police, tell them so-and-so did it. You have to help me. You know, my death has to be avenged kind of thing. Well, he just thinks his wife is having a very weird, lucid dream. And he, of course, does not call the police. He talks to her about it the next day. She doesn't remember it. Whatever goes about their lives. About a week later, trance-like state again. And now his wife in this other personality, the Teresita Bassa, is angry. Why didn't you call the police? And so he thinks he's just kind of humoring her in this state. And he's like, well, I can't just call the police because my wife has a dream and gives me a name. I have to have more details. Well, now this, his wife, who, again, there's no way she should know any of this, tells him who murdered her, how they got in. They were actually coming to, like, supposedly fix her TV. Right. It's this other nurse from the hospital who the police were not looking at at all. Says this guy stole some of her jewelry, jewelry that came from the Philippines that you would not find in Chicago. Tells him who has the jewelry. His girlfriend is wearing it at that moment. Gives him the names and numbers of her friends that can verify that this jewelry was, in fact, Teresita Bassa's, did come from the Philippines. They're so amazed by the level of detail, they decide, why not just check this out a little bit? They go and they go and they interview this guy's girlfriend, the guy who supposedly killed her. Sure enough, she is wearing the jewelry exactly as was described. They're like, oh, my God. They call some of these numbers. These people verify. Yep. That was Teresita Bassa's jewelry. The names match the number. Then they interview the guy and they just read him, hey, you came into her apartment. You were supposed to fix this. You killed her, blah, blah, blah. He is so shocked that they know so many things they shouldn't know that he confesses it was him. He did steal those things. And then the story takes a final weird turn where they go through the trial. Some stupid technicality gets this guy off and there's a mistrial. So now it looks like he can finally get away with it after all this. Very next day, he confesses everything all over again. And the story was that her ghost appeared to him in his cell and made it very clear to him that she was going to terrorize him for the rest of his days unless he confessed to what he did. The officers, they're talking about this. This is back in the 70s. They're like, this does not help our careers to say that a ghost helped us solve this case. It makes us, other officers are going to make fun of us. We don't want this to be the reason this case gets solved. How else can you explain it? And I read all the old source articles and I just walked away from that story thinking there is no other explanation than a ghost. Right, because for you, so what you're saying is what changed your mind or made you more of a believer is the fact that it was documented and it's, you know, with police reports and part of the court case it came out. Yeah, I do, yeah, we do now remember that story because we had talked about other instances where supposedly a ghost had helped or influenced a court trial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's other cases. Yeah, there's other cases where it was kind of documented and I can remember the first one where it, I'm not sure if it may have had to do, you know, I think we came across that in the Somerton man. It was one of the people involved in that trial, I believe, and I may be getting this wrong. It wasn't tied to the Somerton man, that disappearance. It was another case that they had some connection with where some evidence was presented that nobody could have known. Right. And it was claimed that a ghost had delivered the information to make the conviction. So I don't know if you come across any police officers or psychics much in your travels there, but the one, you know, the ones that we have, at least to me, you know, it is said that, yeah, we, if we get desperate, we're in a bind at a dead end here. We will consult a psychic and we have some very good ones, but they just don't tell anybody about it because of course of the reaction. Yep. Yep. And psychics will tell you that like, oh yeah, I get consulted a lot. And, you know, it's not always the open and shut case like this where what's remarkable about the Teresita story is that it's so detailed and it was so forceful. Usually the things are vague. It's like, I'm in a field underneath a walkway and there's water there. You know, you get, you know, the way that I understand that, you know, some psychics get their images and feelings, it can be a little vague, but it narrows it down. It gives you a lead where you didn't have before. Now there's a dedicated streaming channel of just those psychics in court cases where they've come through. And like you said, it's just at some point the police officers with every interview is like, yeah, I didn't really, you know, when they first started, I didn't believe in any of this at all. And I can't deny the information we got. There's no way this could have happened. You know, that reminds me, and I can't remember if it's an unsolved mystery or something, of the psychic who like managed to stab a suspect while he was driving, like in the chest or whatever. And he like felt it and ran off the road. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, I feel like that was an unsolved mystery. Now you're talking about, yeah. Men Who Stare at Goats and Project Stargate where you could, and Russian, the Russians were working on this. George Clooney making that face. Well, you could, you can manipulate. I think there was one Russian PK, adherent, I guess you could say, telekinesis there that they apparently could stop the heart of a small animal or just affect it, give it arrhythmias where you could, you could kill it with a heart attack. And so that's the stories that the Russians, because they, that's what we found as well that is kind of surprising is that the Americans with our cultural background and our, uh, you know, with some of our religious beliefs, we tend not to want to put any stock in that, but the Russians are like, nah, Hey, if it works, it works. Yeah. We're going to try it out and we're going to see if this, if it does work and we're going to find the people that claim to can do this and we're going to test them. And then, uh, through some, uh, espionage, the Americans find out like, Hey, they seem to be getting some results and they're really into this. Now we should try this. And so they have to do that more, uh, surreptitiously because of course you still get, I mean, we still to this day, it's one of the most contested subjects we ever covered is, is, is psychic ability. And so you can't really tell people that, uh, you're doing it and what the results you get, because even then when it comes out, it's like, oh, they did a study and it's ineffective. Uh, and then you find out later, even that's even what the, uh, uh, Stanford research Institute and what they were doing with Stargate is that the person, uh, they said, well, it's speaking of aspirin, tying it back in, the efficacy is greater than the effect of aspirin as a drug. So it's like, okay, that's just raw scientific data. Yeah. Yeah. What they don't like is the implication of that data. Well, what do you mean then? Does that, does that mean this is all real and there are psychic spies and it's like, well, uh, some countries believe so. At least the Russians. Yeah. Yeah. This is what I love. Like, uh, this whole world is it gives me the feeling I had when I was a kid, a teenager watching X-Files, but better because these are real stories, not things, you know, from a writer's room. It's just, um, I, I just love all the mystery it makes me think of. And, you know, if one of these things is true, we say that a lot on scared to death. If there just has to be one of these things to be true. Right. Right. And it opens up an entire giant Pandora's box of mystery, which it just makes me so excited to be alive and be able to explore it. Yeah. Yeah. But it was for people that want to hear your Teresita Bassa episode, which show is that do you remember? That was a scared to death episode. And I had to make myself a little episode list to keep track of everything. So we don't duplicate stuff. That's what we have to do. It was, let's see, Teresita Bassa was episode 88, episode 88 of scared to death. So folks, you should find that by the way, folks should find time suck in general. If you haven't already heard of it, as we said, Dan and, uh, Lindsay's shows are very successful. Uh, he's doing us a favor, but no, you guys are so well, we, we really appreciate it. And, um, I'm not trying to wrap this up, but I, you know, originally, um, we, we were told that you had an hour and it's been, uh, 95 minutes. So I want to give you an opportunity to say goodbye and, but also where can people find your shows? What should they be looking out for? You know, if they go to bad magic productions.com, that links to everything I have time suck scared to death, or they can just throw my name, Dan Cummins into Google and these things will come up. Great. Great. Well, Dan, thank you so much for coming on the show. Oh, thank you for taking the time. I hope that, um, I think I, you know, speak for Forrest. We both would have you back anytime. Oh yeah. Please let us know what you're up to and, uh, uh, your next, uh, strange, uh, paranormal bathroom experience, anything. Uh, come on. Oh no, no. I love that we both have paranormal. Yeah, me too. Lindsay and I have been big fans, you guys, since we started doing scared to death and, Oh, great. You know, it just, you're just genuine, you know, we always tell our listeners, you know, it's like just good, genuine people. I am pretty skeptical with people in general and, uh, you know, entertainment is, as you guys know, it's a weird business and there's a lot of weird motivations out there. And, uh, I just like, you're talking about energy. I've always just liked your guys's energy. Just, uh. Thank you. Thank you. Right back at you. Really good guys. Yeah. Thanks, Dan. Like I said, I think it's a big community of folks, uh, all with different talents and outlooks and, uh, from skeptical to full on believer. And that's what makes it special here is that we all, no matter what you believe or what your temperament is, uh, is that you have an interest in this and that, uh, kind of connects us all. Yeah. And I think it's like, yeah, it's a, it's a special group, but yeah, we've, uh, we've listened to your show for a long time now. And again, uh, just the energy of it and the way you present it. And it's very refreshing from what is, uh, from what we do and what's usually out there. So thank you for producing all these years and we hope you keep up with it. And, uh, no matter where we're the steers. Yeah. Hopefully it'll work out. Hopefully you'll, you know, you'll get committed and maybe really dive into it. Thank you guys very much. That's going to wrap up episode 306 of Astonishing Legends. We'll be back with a new episode next week. Look for new episodes of the Dead Letter Office weekly on Tuesdays. Astonishing Legends is edited by Sarah Voorhees-Wendell at VW Sound. Our co-producer is Tess Feifel, who also leads our research efforts and manages our social media, and we're grateful for the hard work of our technical producer, Ed Vakola, behind the scenes. Special thanks to our announcer, John Boland, for lending his voice to our shows. Hi. Hi. Hi. I'm Jenna. And I give permission to Astonishing Legends to use my voice however they see fit. Galaxy wide and perpetually. Our theme, which is available as a ringtone, was composed by Judson Crane at Foundermusic.com. All other music and sound design for the show is composed and created by Alan Caressia. Our logo was created by Tommy Beaver Design, and our animated graphics for social media and YouTube are done by Joshua Sloan at DeadStreetProductions.com. Many episodes have transcripts available. For ones that don't, you can request them by emailing transcripts at AstonishingLegends.com. Astonishing Legends would not be possible without you, our listeners. Visit our store at AstonishingLegends.com or interact with us and other listeners on Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, Discord, and YouTube. You can also visit us at Patreon.com slash AstonishingLegends, where patrons have access to commercial-free versions of both the main show and the Dead Letter office, as well as additional bonus content, including the Patreon-exclusive show, The Astonishing Junk Door. No part of this show may be reproduced anywhere without permission. Copyright Astonishing Legends Productions. Good night. Raise your hand if you want your nails to look perfect all the time. Me too. I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle from Olive and June, and this is exactly why we created the Manny System. We wanted to make it possible for everyone everywhere to give themselves a beautiful manicure at home. With our tools and our long-lasting polish, each manicure with our Manny System comes out to just $2. That's right, $2. No more $30, $40, $50 Manny's that you get at a salon and they take hours. Now you can paint your nails on your time and love them more than ever. And by the way, when people ask, who did your nails? 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You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Ever notice that feeling your worst also seems to happen at the worst time in the worst places? Like sudden nausea at 9 p.m. when you're out of town. Really? Now? 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