Air Force Doctor Reveals Disc-Shaped Craft, Electromagnetic Anomalies & NASA Secrets

This is Jim Simovan, and you are listening to That UFO Podcast. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. Joining me today, my guest is a former U.S. Air Force flight surgeon and aerospace medicine specialist who supported more than 30 space shuttle missions with NASA at Cape Canaveral. He served as chief of aerospace medicine for the 45th Space Wing, overseeing medical operations for launch and flight crews. After retiring from the Air Force, he became an author and speaker, sharing insights from his years working at the intersection of medicine, aviation, and spaceflight. He recently gained attention for publicly discussing a 1992 experience involving what he describes as a disc-shaped craft seen at a secure facility. I'd love to welcome to the podcast, Dr. Gregory Rogers. Welcome. It's my pleasure to be here. Very good to have you on. And like I say, your short bio from myself will not do your illustrious career justice. That must have summed many decades of work and effort and accolades all up far too quickly. And I'd love if you could just fill the listeners and viewers in on some of those gaps on your background and career. Okay. Well, I was a senior flight surgeon for the United States Air Force and was attached to NASA as a flight surgeon. I had a flight surgeon certification at Johnson Space Center for NASA operations. I served in Europe, stationed in Germany. I've been on five continents, performed classified mission on four continents, visited more than 19, well, 19 countries, and worked with people from more than 34 nations related to their military operations, deployed on multiple classified missions that I'm, of course, naturally not going to discuss. But I think one thing that sometimes people miss is that I was concerned with what NASA was doing, because when I got there in 1989, there were a lot of crazy things going on. You think of NASA as, you know, the top of everything, but there were all kinds of details that were being missed. One simple example was that in the orange launch entry suit that the astronauts would wear when they got onto the orbiter for launch or were wearing on the orbiter for landing operations, in their right lower leg pocket, they had two chemlights. And the purpose of these chemlights was that if they bailed out into the Atlantic Ocean at night, my helicopter crew and I would go out looking for them. So they were supposed to hold these chemlights out and show them to us. The only problem was they were red chemlights. And so as soon as I learned this, I said, you've got to be kidding me. Why did you put red chemlights in? And the NASA guys said, well, we don't want to ruin their night vision. And I said, look, I don't really care about their night vision. Besides, if we use green chemlights, it's not going to disturb their night vision because it's not that bright. But what does concern me is that because of the wavelengths of our night vision goggles, I could see a green chemlight in the water 10 miles away on a clear day, a clear night. So, you know, red chemlights are not helpful. Look, we've got to change to green chemlights. And it took me a year and a half to convince them to switch to green chemlights so that if they actually held one up in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, we could find the astronaut to save their life. So little things like that were very annoying to me. So what exactly is the role of a chief flight surgeon? And does that differ from the Air Force to NASA? Yes, it did. And as the chief of aerospace medicine, I was in charge of all of the medical operations in the SGP office, which means preventative, but we took care of all of the flight crews. We took care of air traffic controllers. We took care of missile launch personnel. We had combat air controllers that we dealt with. We dealt with people from the Air Force Technical Application Center. The 9th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing had a section there, and they were flying the U-2s at the time. So I was dealing with that. But then all of the operations at Cape Canaveral were also under my purview as the chief medical officer for the 45th Space Wing. So Cape Canaveral is actually a very large facility. The Air Force owns it, but they can't run everything. So they hired a contractor known as EG&G, and they were the prime operators for the facilities all over Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. Now then, for those who know, EG&G has a very long and important history as a military contractor to the Department of Defense. So I had to interface directly with them on many cases because I was responsible for what they were doing. They had a contract, but we had to have people monitoring the contract to make certain that those contracting companies were performing their jobs correctly. So I would go out to Cape Canaveral, and even though it was highly classified, probably about 80% of the facilities there I could go into and visit. Many times I had to have escorts because of the secrecy. But there were still about 20% of the facilities even I could not get into because of the classification. So that was actually what I was doing at the time of the event in 1992. And EG&G is an organization that Bob Lazar has claimed he worked for as part of the work he was doing at S4. Is that something you're aware of or you've come around to? I'm aware of that, and EG&G is a prime contractor for many military facilities, many of the most classified facilities. So if you're in the military and you know EG&G, you know what they do and how they do it. Certainly an organization that's got a lot of intrigue behind it. And do you know what? It's one of those I don't think get named often enough in these things. But like you say, they're probably there in the background in some way, shape or form for many of these operations, potentially. Something that really interested me, Greg, when I was watching several of your interviews, I enjoyed listening to your time as talking about time as a pilot. You've flown with some of the best out there. And I heard you mention that you couldn't trust certain areas due to electromagnetic interference. You've mentioned the famous or infamous Bermuda Triangle. And what's your take on what causes the issues in that area? Is it something anomalous or something more scientifically explainable for you? Well, there are actually areas located all over the Earth where because of the mineral content of the land, maybe an ancient asteroid landed there, you know, 30 million years ago or something of that sort, that as you are flying, you know, when you're driving or walking, you know, you don't notice it as much. But when you're flying, you notice that your magnetic compasses get screwed up, that there's a magnetic field in very many areas. In fact, if you look at even like Skinwalker Ranch, the same kind of things I was seeing with my flight crews in the Bermuda Triangle are very similar in certain ways to what has been identified on Skinwalker Ranch. There are just places on this Earth that have magnetic disturbances. And if you disturb magnets, you're going to disturb electromagnetic fields. And you're going to cause electrical equipment to malfunction. And a whole sort of anomalous influences are going to be present there. There are places all over the world that many times have been identified as holy places to ancient peoples. And, of course, they weren't flying helicopters or aircraft. But when we go to their sites today, we can detect anomalous electromagnetic frequencies, magnetic effects, and so forth. And the world is much stranger than people think. Well, I'm glad you say that because I was going to ask, do you think as a case of we get this interference on these instruments, and that's because of the, for example, like you say, an ancient asteroid that crashed some many millions of years ago. But do you think there's also a causality that because of those areas being so different in terms of their frequencies, their signatures, that interference, you can get more anomalous events happen in those areas? Absolutely. You know, I think there was one podcast that I discussed this one, but we were going out searching for, I believe it was an aircraft that was missing. And when we went out to a position where we thought we would start the search and rescue operations, we had planned on when we would arrive at the specific location. And so there were radials that were using radar signatures from Cape Canaveral that would tell us of what our specific location was at. And so when we reached the location at the specific radial that had been indicated, we'd actually gotten there like eight minutes faster than we should have. And we did not have a tailwind, so that shouldn't have accounted for it. And so we all sort of looked at each other, you know, all the time we're flying, we're flying into Bermuda Triangle when you're flying off the Cape and Patrick Air Force Base. So we just kind of looked at each other and said, okay, well, that was strange. But we had it timed, we thought very clearly. And yet we had eight more minutes when we arrived at our station to start the search and rescue grid than what we thought we had. And what would you put that down to? Sent, you know, we were all experienced personnel. We do search and rescue missions off the coast of Florida for ships that sink, airplanes that crash, and all of that. But we also support certain types of submarine operations that I'm not going to discuss. We ran the Eastern Missile Range. We supported the launch not only of the space shuttle, but of a whole series of unmanned launch vehicles that was used by the Department of Defense, NSA, CIA, all kinds of things. And so we were all experienced people. We'd been doing this for a while. And for all of us to get to this location, realize what happened, and we're all looking at each other. These are, everyone on the flight crew is experienced. And so the reason we're looking at each other is because we know we should not have been able to do this. And yet it doesn't matter whether we should have. The fact of the matter is we did it and there was no one on board who had an explanation of how we did that. And is that something you've ever thought about since or discussed with those people since? Or is it just something you've chalked up to it happened and you've kind of made peace with it and moved on? Well, we went ahead and performed the search and rescue mission, and we ended up recovering survivors. So we brought them back, and I and my PJs provided medical care to them on the way back to the mainland, and we dropped them off at a hospital. And, and, and, uh, a mainland hospital. And then we flew over to our air base and, uh, you always have a debriefing after every mission. So as we get together and, uh, we're going to go over all of the mission details of what we did. Um, one of the guys said, is anybody going to mention it? And we all looked at each other and, uh, finally the, um, uh, aircraft commander said, no, we're going into the briefing. And so nothing was said, uh, you know, no one wanted to talk about what, what we had seen. Um, I can understand that. And was that incident before or after 1992? I, I can't really say that, that I remember. Okay. Because as soon as that mission was over, uh, we all kept our mouths shut. We didn't tell anybody. And, um, as is so often done by astronauts, pilots, uh, military personnel, and everybody else. When something like that happens, especially, uh, back in the early, uh, 1990s, or even back in the, uh, 1980s, when I first started, uh, military operations, it's not something you discuss. Uh, it is not advantageous to your career to say that you experience something that anomalous. No, of course. And I wonder, just before we talk about 1992, what was your, your thoughts on the UFO topic growing up and then before the incident in 1992? Was it something you paid much attention to or had any interest in? Oh, oh, yes. Actually, in probably 1969 or 1970, uh, I got a copy of the book Chariots of the Gods by Eric Von Donneken. And I, I must've read that thing 15 times and, uh, I, uh, was really hooked on that. And so, uh, it affected my outlook, uh, for the rest of my life. Uh, and that was even before I experienced anything that would, um, cause me to say, you know, this is the same kind of stuff. That's in Eric Von Donneken's book. I was very fortunate to interview Eric Von Donneken, um, a couple of years back. Of course, he's in, he's, uh, an aged gent these days. And I don't know how much he understood what I was saying to him, but he certainly can still speak about the UFO topic. And he's a very interesting, interesting gentleman with an incredible legacy. Um, and that, obviously that book had a lasting impact on you. So let's talk about 1992. And I've heard you tell this story a few times. People watching or listening to this may or may not be aware. So if you don't mind, Dr. Rogers, taking us back to the beginning of what happened with your own very unique experience. Where were you? What were you doing? And talk us through it. Okay. Um, yeah, I'll be glad to do that. Back in 1992, um, as I had mentioned, uh, one of my duties was to monitor all of the medical operations going on at Cape Canaveral. Now, medical operations also included, uh, the medical safety guidelines for all of our operations. So when, whenever there was any sort of operation that had an element of danger to it, uh, we had to, uh, ensure that, uh, we were protecting the safety of all of our workers. Uh, that could include, um, not just mechanical problems, but also electromagnetic problems, ionizing radiation. We had hypergolic fuel, and it had an oxidizer. The fuel was hydrazine and monomethylhydrazine, and then the oxidizer was nitrogen tetroxide. Well, nitrogen tetroxide is extremely dangerous. As soon as it reaches air, it turns into a red gas, and so one of the things that I learned there was, you know, we did it as a joke, but we always said that at Cape Canaveral, you never wanted to come in contact with the BRC, and so that sounded mysterious. And when I first heard it, you know, they were teasing me because I was a novice when I first got there, and I said, okay, I give up, guys. What's a BRC? And they said, a big red cloud. If nitrogen tetroxide leaks, it forms a big red cloud. If you see a big red cloud, run. If you even breathe, it might be the last thing you do. You cannot inhale this during space shuttle launches, for instance. I had to carry certain types of antidotes to some of the chemicals that were aboard the space shuttle, and so if there was a catastrophic failure, one of the first things I was going to do was inject everyone in my helicopter with these antidotes so that we could try to go rescue everyone else. Because if we came in contact with some of these chemicals, if you were untreated, you could go into convulsions immediately, and if you're trying to fly a helicopter in the midst of convulsions, it's not going to work out very well. So on this particular day, I was going up to the Cape, and the EG&G facilities had some new operations that they had initiated along with the contractors for the rocket engines, the satellites, and so forth. And so on this particular day, I got to the Cape, and I met an EG&G escort, and so he was going to take me to three different locations on Cape Canaveral, and he was going to show me what the new functions were. So we went to the first building, so we went to the first building, went inside, he showed it to me, and said, okay, great, now I know what it is. So we went to the second building. He escorted me inside, we took a look at it, said, okay, that's really interesting, now I understand that. So then we went to the third building, and it was a classified building, most everything at Cape Canaveral is, you can't take a picture on Cape Canaveral without clearance. You can't get onto the military installation unless you have specified clearance to do so. So I've mentioned there would be times that two- and three-star generals would be on vacation in Florida, and they would drive up to the front gate at Cape Canaveral and say, hey, I want to get a tour. Can you let me in here? I'm a three-star general. And the guard would just say, I'm sorry, sir, you do not have clearance to enter this facility. So you're going to have to back your car up and go back out. So everything was like this all over. This particular building was classified, and so I didn't have an iPhone or cell phone at the time because nobody did. But I did have a pager, but I had to leave the pager outside in my car because you could not take any type of electronic equipment into this location because of the security. So I went in, and he took me into this area to go into this clean room where they had all of the things we were going to view that day. I had to put on a cap to keep my hair out. So I had to put on this coat to make sure that I didn't leave any debris back. I had to wear gloves, and I had to put on these little electrostatic booties so that I didn't leave any dust behind and did not create any electromagnetic static electricity because everything in there was very significant electromagnetic and one little thing. And if you short-circuited something, that might be a $3.5 million satellite. So you just got to be careful. So we went and did all of the stuff that he was going to show me. And so as we exited, we went out into the little preparation room. And so I'm taking off my cap, taking off my jacket, and all of this. Well, the EG&G escort guy did this all the time. And so boom, boom, boom, he had all of his stuff off and secured. And he said, okay, see you, doc. And so he left. And so I was maybe like one minute behind him. So I got all of my stuff arranged. And so as I stepped out, there were these double doors, and it led into a hallway. So as I entered that hallway, there was a gentleman off to my right that was in his Class A Air Force uniform. And from his insignia, I could tell that he was a missile launch guy. So as I went up to him, he said, hey, doc, I've got something to show you. Well, the thing is, I saw all of these people, hundreds and thousands of people on sick call, in the emergency room, on annual physicals and stuff. So a lot of times for me, I might see 15 people in a single day. And then six months later, I don't remember who those 15 people were. But because coming to the flight surgeon's office was important for them, they would remember whatever we did on that day. So he recognized me and said, I've got something to show you. I said, oh, okay, what is it? And he did this. He said, I've got something to show you that even you have never seen. So I said, well, okay, well, show it to me. Now, the reason I believe he did that was that on the Cape, there were like 25 different classified locations on there. And so to enter each of those locations, you have to have a special security clearance. So I had gone through like 13 different locations. And so on my little necklace thing, I had 13 different ID cards so that when I went to this location, I could show him this ID. If I go to this location, show him this ID. Well, this guy only had like one or two. So he was very limited in where he could go and what he could see. And we did that for compartmentalized security. We had so many different things going on that we didn't want people in building A to know what was going on in building G. So those people could not interact and certainly could not enter. So he said, I'm going to show you this. So I stepped in behind him into this little office that was there to the right. As soon as we entered the office, he shut the door and locked it. So I thought, now, that's pretty strange. And then there were louvered blinds. And so he closed all of the blinds. And now I'm thinking, you know, hold it. You know, this is getting kind of funny, you know. I don't know what's going on here. So he said, just a minute, I'll show you. So there were four computer stations inside this office. So he sat down at one of the computer stations, which I assumed was his. So he turned on the computer, turned on the console. And he starts doing some things looking for something. So, you know, we're just sort of chatting, nothing important that I would remember later. Well, all of a sudden, this screen came up. And he said, here it is. You take my seat. So he moved over one seat to his left. And I sat down in his chair, which was directly in front of the computer screen. Now, when I looked at this screen, it looked like a closed-circuit TV feed. But it was totally clean. There was no time or date or location noted on it. There was no evidence of any classification marker or anything else. It was just this raw feed from the closed-circuit television. And it looked like it was, you know, sort of a typical military hangar. So when I looked at it, it looked like just a regular hangar, with the exception of what was inside the hangar. Now, then, what I saw was a saucer vehicle. It looked sort of like an egg. Eggs are a little bit oblong. If you sort of smashed it down to where it was even all the way around, that was what it looked like. The surface was pearly white. There were no rivets, no seams, no doors, no windows, no pitot tubes, no control surfaces, nothing I could identify as a propulsion system. But as soon as I saw it, I thought, this is a test vehicle. Now, then, along the beam of it, the midsection of it, there was a black rectangle that had been painted horizontally from the 1230 to 230 position and then from the 330 to the 530 position. As it moved, I later saw that there were four of these rectangles, the other two were at the 630 to 830 position and the 930 to 1130 position. So, around the center of it, sort of like a belt, was these four large black rectangles. At the 330 position above the beam, at the 630 position, as I saw it move later, there were vertical rectangles. Now, the reason these impressed me as being in a research vehicle was that the surface was so smooth and clear that if you had not put something on it, you couldn't tell what was going on. Even look back at the Saturn V launch vehicles to more properly monitor the vehicles during launch. They painted large rectangles on all of the launch vehicles so that as it began to move, you could tell when it was rotating in all of this. Because if they left it all white, the videos from the monitoring screens wouldn't necessarily pick it up. But if the rectangles move in any way, you're going to detect the motion of the vehicle. So, as I'm looking at this thing, I commented to him, who on earth would make something like that? And he said, well, I can't tell you that. And I said, why would we design something like this? And here's exactly what he did. He said, we got it from them. Now then, he did not explain what that meant. But clearly, to my mind, he was saying this is based on a UFO, a flying saucer. So, I assumed that most likely a contractor had been given the specifications and were trying to reverse engineer what somebody in the Air Force had found. And they said, well, we want to do this. To sort of put this into perspective, here's something I tell people. If we today took an F-22, which is our most advanced air-to-air fighter, air superiority aircraft, and we transported it back to 1914. And we said, okay, we're going to give it to the finest American aircraft engineers, and we want to give the United States a huge advantage in World War I by providing them an entire F-22. Now then, you make F-22s in 1914, it doesn't matter what anyone else does, you're going to defeat everybody. Nobody has the capability of doing that. Now, the only problem is that the engineers are limited because of their knowledge in 1914. So, they look at the F-22, and the first thing they're going to say is, well, where's the propeller? You know, there's no propeller anywhere on this thing. And so, you say, well, it doesn't need a propeller. It's got jet engines. Well, they don't know what jet engines are. They feel the surface of it, and they say, we make all of our aircraft out of wood. None of this feels like wood, and this metal here on the front feels really funny. And so, we say, oh, well, that's because it's a special nickel-titanium alloy. It has a special surface coating with radar-absorbent material so that if a radar signal is seeking this craft, it's going to disrupt the return signature to the radar so that no one can know where it is. And they're just going to look at me with funny looks on their faces and say, what's a radar? Yeah. Now, even though this is only 100 years of human technology, there is no one, no matter what they tried to do in 1914, that can reproduce an F-22. They don't know what computers are. That's 100 years of human technology. Now, then, if we capture a vehicle, say, 1947 in Roswell, and it is 5,000 years ahead of us, we can look at it, and we're going to say, well, where's the propulsion system? Where are the flight controls? How are you going to do this? We would be in the same position of those aeronautical engineers in 1914 trying to figure out, what does all this technology mean? So, there is no way on Earth we're going to immediately be able to replicate the UAP that we discovered. And so, we're going to have to take baby steps, little by little by little by little, to try to figure out, how are we going to reverse engineer this thing? So, in 1992, that was 45 years after the Roswell incident, and there were other incidents after that. To put it into perspective, this was only three years after Bob Lazar gave his account of what he was doing with EG&G at Area 51. And his description of a sports model, flying saucer, is sort of like what I was seeing. I don't know if they were in any way related, but what I was looking at was totally foreign to anything that I knew. Well, this thing activated, and it lifted off the surface about three feet. There were electromagnetic discharges going on around the surface of the craft, and there was some other stuff happening. But because of the nature of the other stuff, if this was a testbed model, whoever was making it likely moved forward with the technology. So, if I described the clues about that technology, I might inadvertently give away classified information for what the later models could do. So, I have not discussed that with anyone. But this thing lifted off about three feet off the ground, and then just as smooth as it could be, it rotated 360 degrees clockwise. It rotated 360 degrees counterclockwise so that it was in exactly the same position as when it rose. It then moved left and right, forward and backward, just as though you were doing testing of the control mechanisms, making sure everything's working right. Well, it was just sitting there like this, and then all of a sudden, oh, I forgot to mention one very important thing. The reason I called the one section the 12 o'clock position or the forward section was because as it rotated, I could see U.S. Air Force written on the beam of it right there. And then just above that was the U.S. flight insignia. So, now then, I'm already surprised because I'm looking at a stinking flying saucer. And now, as it rotates, I see that it says U.S. Air Force and has an Air Force flight insignia. Now, I have to remind people, the U.S. Air Force does not build aircraft. The Air Force will give details of what they want an aircraft to be. They provide those details to contractors and contractor consortiums. They figure out their version of what it is. And so, the contractors will bring out copies of what they've developed. And the Air Force will assess them to see which one is most successful for the U.S. Air Force. And then they will give a contract to that corporation or consortium. And then they will begin to create a production line. The production line will produce production line aircraft. And then the U.S. Air Force will purchase those craft from the contractor. Now, since this was a test vehicle, as far as I'm concerned, it still belonged to a contractor, a contractor consortium, even though it said U.S. Air Force on it. Now, then at the very top of it was this little mast and three umbilical lines came off this. And so, those umbilical lines most likely fed in electricity, circuitry for controls and all of this kind of stuff, which is another reason I assumed that it was a test vehicle. If it was a fully functional craft, you wouldn't need umbilicals to provide electricity or anything like that. That would all be internal to the craft. So, because it required the umbilicals, that was another reason I considered it to be a test aircraft. Well, all of a sudden, it tilted to a 45-degree angle. Now, I've flown helicopters, and I've flown T-38s, F-16s, and I know the aerodynamics. We have no craft anywhere that can assume a 45-degree angle of attack and remain motionless. And yet, this vehicle did this. So, that just completely blew me away. Unfortunately, just about that time, there was a knock on the door, and somebody said, Hey, what's going on in there? Why is the door locked? Well, this major that was showing me all this stuff, he panics. He clicks off the computer, clicks off the console. He looks at me and says, Don't tell anyone I showed you this. Well, I'm sitting there thinking, You just showed me a flying saucer. Who on earth am I going to tell that I just saw a flying saucer that you showed me? Well, he goes over to the door. He opens the door. This lieutenant colonel, and I believe there were two captains with him, stepped in. The lieutenant colonel looked sort of funny at both of us and said, Why was the door locked? Well, this major said, Well, I had this skin thing that I was afraid might be cancer, so I wanted to show it to the doc. So, just for privacy, I locked the door while I was showing it to him. So, now, they all look at me. My mind is racing, because if that video had shown any degree of classification, and it had been showed to me inappropriately, I would have to report to a whole bunch of them. But it didn't have that. I had already encountered astronauts and pilots and other flight crews who had witnessed UAPs before. in space and in flight within normal aircraft capabilities. And as they would tell the stuff, they would then turn around and say, But I'm not telling anyone about it. So, you know, there was a clear unspoken rule that when something happened, you don't tell anybody about it. So, this lieutenant colonel is looking at me, and I just said, The skin lesion wasn't cancer, nothing to worry about. I got to get back to my clinic. And so, I booked it out of there. I went and got in my car, and I left the Cape. I drove down Highway A1A to Patrick Air Force Base. And so, that was a 30-minute drive. And the whole way down there, I'm thinking, What on earth am I going to do? And I decided, Yeah, I'm going to do the same thing all these other people have done. I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to tell somebody I just saw a flying saucer. That might be a good way to end my career right there. So, I did not tell anyone. It was 15 years before I even told my wife. But then, finally, this year, in April of 2025, I retired from the Defense Health Agency. And so, I was no longer part of the Department of Defense. And so, on the 4th of May and the 5th of May, I had interviews and explained what I had seen back in 1992. Well, I didn't expect it to blow up the way it did. Three days later, there's an article in Newsweek Magazine about me and my story. The New York Post is running it. It's in newspapers and other news sources all over the world within days. And so, since that time, I have been telling this story to people from Argentina to Malta to the Philippines and just about everywhere in between. Well, thank you for the retelling because it's really incredible. And as you're telling it, I'm sure people listening, people watching will have a lot of things going through their head as to what the scenario looked like. And I've got a lot of questions to kind of try to fill in some gaps here. So, Dr. Rogers, first off, did you mention, forgive me if you did, the size of the object? Could you get a grasp of how big you thought it was? Okay, when I first saw it, there were two men standing over to the left of it and there were three men standing over to the far right side of it. So, my estimate was that it was probably 20 feet in length from one end to the other. It was probably 8 to 10 feet in height, including a tiny little dome that was at the very apex of it, but not including the mast and the umbilicals. But that was the size of what I saw. In terms of it being CCTV footage, I think everyone can imagine that. How clear was the picture of the CCTV? Oh, it was perfect. You know, at Cape Canaveral and Patrick Air Force Base, we had CCTV on lots and lots of stuff. So, I was very much used to watching the closed circuit television in all kinds of different areas. And it was extremely clear. There was nothing at all that made me suspicious that anything I was seeing was not exactly what it appeared to be. At that time, I don't think Steven Spielberg could have made a closed circuit TV, Photoshop, or anything of that sort. AI, of course, didn't really have that kind of AI. But I was experienced enough that when I saw this, I 100.000 believed it. For me, CCTV, you always think it's a live feed. But given what you discussed, it would sound more plausible you were watching something that was a recording of a live feed. Otherwise, you just got very lucky that you see it activate, you see it move, rather than just sit there. Is that something you've considered, whether you thought it was live or recorded? I believe it was recorded. Okay. How did you feel when you saw it? I think many of us, we've all seen videos. We've seen the Go Fast, the Gimbal, the Tic Tac, and any number of UFO videos online. But we truly don't know what we're looking at. We can think we know. Okay. But when you see this saucer, when you're undoubtedly seeing this, how do you feel? Is it a different feeling? Well, from the position of the camera to where the vehicle was, couldn't have been more than 25 feet. So, I was seeing an absolutely perfect view of it. I had nothing to interpret. I could see everything that was there. So, it's like saying you're going out to your driveway, and you're standing 15 feet away from your car, and you're going to describe what the car looks like. There was nothing for me to interpret as far as the physical appearance of the vehicle. Now then, how it functioned and some of those kind of details, as I said before, I'm not going to discuss those with anybody because I believe this was a testbed article. And without question, if it could do what they were doing, testing it in this hangar, this was early on in the development program. And so, that vehicle has been further developed since that time. Did you get a feeling when you saw it on the screen, though? Did your stomach sink, or were you nervous watching it? How did you feel? Well, I was very much surprised. It was just sort of a shock. You know, I just got through looking at other spacecraft while I was receiving the EG&G tour. I helped launch space shuttles. I did, I flew F-16s, T-38s, all kinds of helicopters. And so, you know, I'm accustomed to seeing special vehicles, special aircraft, and all of these kind of things. But it was just like a bucket of cold water was poured on me when I looked. And that's a saucer. It wasn't flying at the time, so it wasn't a flying saucer yet. But just in a few moments, it lifted off and began to maneuver. And so, I was looking at a flying saucer. What's a strange thing for me to consider when I've heard you retell this story a couple of times now over various interviews I've watched? And just to mention, Total Disclosure with Ty Roberts. I saw you on, obviously, Jesse Michaels' American Alchemy and a couple of other shows, The Daily Mail with Josh Boswell. Yeah, yeah. Jesse's great. Tyler's great. In fact, I've been on several times recently with Gary Anderson with Night Dreams. And I do want to mention that since that time, I have become a board member for the International UFO Bureau that is centered in Oklahoma City. And because, as I told these stories, so many people were interested, I have written a book. And it's about, you know, all these different kind of things, but also some of my military experiences unrelated to UAPs. But I didn't get fancy on the name. I just thought, well, there's no better name for it than We Got It From Them. So, that's the name of it. We Got It From Them. And, you know, whoever this major was, when he told that to me, he also wrote the name of my book for me. He inspired you for that. And when is the book due out? The book is already out. It's available on Amazon. Awesome. I'll put the link in the description for that for folks who want to pick that up. I'd recommend you go and check that one out. But something I wanted to ask though, Dr. Rogers, is why would you think this object, given how secretive it was, was marked U.S. Air Force? That seems almost unnecessary. Can you think of a reason why it would have to be marked, given what you were looking at? Oh, that's going to be standard. If the Army gives a contract to somebody for a new kind of helicopter, as soon as the craft comes out, it's going to have U.S. Army on it because that's who paid for the research and development. If it's from the Navy, it's going to have U.S. Navy markings. If it's from the Marines, it's going to have U.S. Marine markings. But if the contract had been outlined by the United States Air Force, whatever corporation is coming up with the design, they're going to put a U.S. Air Force logo on it. That's who's paying the bills. This is one of the things that is somewhat disturbing to me. Now, someone paid for the research and development of this thing because it didn't just pop up out of nowhere. So this thing has been in development by somebody. Somebody had to have the procurement for all of the associated technology. Now, then, if this was being developed by the Air Force, did they go to Congress and say, we want to build a really unusual craft and we're going to need $310 million to do this? Well, there are ways that the Air Force can do that secretly, but they are still bound to report to special members of Congress that this is what the Department of Defense of the United States is doing with this much money. Now, then, did they report this the way they were supposed to be? I have no idea whatsoever. But it is such an unusual thing for that to happen that somebody somewhere was in charge of this program. I don't know who that someone was, but I don't think the – I doubt that anyone in the Joint Chiefs of Staff knew who that was. I don't know that the senior members of Congress knew who that was. So somebody was out there spending a lot of money to develop this thing. And were they doing it according to legal fashions or were they hiding this in the same fashion that they hide so much other information about UAPs? So this may have been a hidden program that if you go by the letter of the law, it might have been illegal. And yet, because of the veil of secrecy and national security, the Department of Defense hides lots and lots and lots and lots of stuff. So this may have been just another one of those incidents. And that's something we've heard discussed a lot in Congress recently with the hearings. And I want to get your opinion on that. But just before I do, I want to take you back to 1992. In that room, if you were put back there now and you were given a couple of minutes in the room with the gentleman who showed you the footage, is there anything you would or could do differently? Would you ask anything different? Would you try and observe anything differently? If I could go back to that situation, I would not have walked into that room. Really? You would rather just sit down where it happened? Yes. If I went back and I stepped through those double doors with all of the knowledge I have now, and he says, I'm going to show you something you have never seen, and I understood what that was, I would say, no thanks, I'm going to get in my car, and I'm getting out of here. And I wouldn't have given the guy the time of day. So I would have left because he put me in a terrible position. Even though there was no definitive markings of this thing being classified, it's a stinking flying saucer. Of course, it's going to be classified. Yeah. But to whom, for what purpose, I've got no idea. But as soon as he showed it to me, I'm at risk. Yeah. He is putting my career on the line. If I mention, hey, he just showed me a flying saucer, and then security comes in, and they check it out, and he does not show them that file, they're going to take me and lock me up and say, Major Rogers is going crazy. He thinks he's seeing flying saucers out at the Cape. I was very, very vulnerable because of what he did. Now then, since I started talking about this, I have been very, very vulnerable also. And a number of things have happened that have been persecution. I think people have done things to try to scare me to keep my mouth shut. All kinds of other things have occurred that makes me cautious to tell anything new or different. Or, you know, there was lots of stuff at Cape Canaveral and Kennedy Space Center. And so I've got lots and lots of information that I've never told anybody, and I'm not going to. But it is very intimidating to have calls to your cell phone scrambled and sent to false locations. And that has happened to me. I could go into stuff, but it is very intimidating to know that there are people who can do things like that. And there's not a thing I can do about stopping them. So one of the things I've done is that when I've been on many of these podcasts, I tell people, OK, look, I'm being harassed, you know, in the past. There have been stories of people who were trying to tell their UFO stories, and they ended up with a suicide or their car was struck by a train or, you know, who knows what else is going on. The only way I can defend myself is to tell this story so that if somebody does something to me, they're going to know, hold it. I told the whole world I was being harassed. If something really strange and bizarre happens, they're not going to be able to hide it in my case. So I keep making these kinds of statements because I am very concerned of what they could do to me. And we have heard about others such as David Grush, who's talked about retaliations against himself. And have you reached out to people like David Grush and other whistleblowers to have a conversation around how to act, behave, safety? Yes, I have. In fact, I have been in communication with David Grush himself, with Ryan Graves. But realistically, they can't really defend themselves. So what on earth are they going to do to help me defend me? I can't help them defend them. So it's gotten to the point that it's very troublesome. And I've started trying to be a lot more careful of what I say and to whom I say it. Do you think often about why you were shown what you were shown by that gentleman in the room? I think that he had sort of a normal human experience. You know, if – well, let me give you an example. I once went aboard the USS Montpelier, which is a nuclear attack submarine, and it had just been commissioned. And so it was the newest and latest submarine in the world. Because of an injury, I ended up going on board that sub. Well, they called me all of a sudden and said, we need a doctor. So I went out there. So, you know, I'm in my flight jacket here, but I was in my flight suit, and it had space shuttle stuff on it like this and all that. So when I got on the sub, they said, you know, we aren't supposed to really show this stuff, but how would you like to see the sonar room? Let's show you the sonar room. And so they took me in there, and they did that. And so they showed me some things on that submarine they really should not have shown me. But, you know, humans are like that. You know, if somebody's walking along a beach and they reach down and find a diamond ring, they're going to say, hey, everybody, look what I just found. So, you know, that is human nature. And even though they try to train this out of you with military security, you know, we still do those kind of things. So I don't know if you've had the chance to see this yet, Dr. Rogers, but yesterday the New Paradigm Institute hosted their annual Global Disclosure Day. And there was multiple notable names as part of it, and Colonel Carl Nell was speaking at the event. And Carl Nell, really interesting character. I don't know if you've had any conversations with him or how aware you are of Carl Nell. I have not, but I did listen to the video. Excellent. So if folks haven't seen this yet, and this is going to go out quite quick, Dr. Rogers, this interview after we finish. And Carl Nell made a comment that he believes this cycle of disclosure, this cycle of progress that was attempted since the start of 2017 with the New York Times article. He believes that cycle is over with the failure of the UAP Disclosure Act to pass for a third time. And I'd love your take on that, how you feel the situation is. Because people like yourself coming forward and sharing these incredible testimonies, people coming out and putting careers at risk, potentially putting lives at risk. And it seems to be right now, it's coming up against a stone wall of the government. And I'd love your take on where things are. Okay. One of the reasons I came forward was because of those previous hearings. I think in 22, 23, 24, they were actually making progress. And then the first hearing that was supposed to occur this year didn't happen. And then when they did finally have it, only certain information was allowed to be presented. They showed a video, which I was extremely under-impressed with. And because it was a leaked video, they don't have to give any kind of information about what it was about. But a Hellfire missile is an air-to-ground missile. It can be tuned to follow flying craft. And so we saw this as it was occurring, as it was supposedly leaked. But if this was a really dangerous drone that was coming at it, first of all, the drone was pretty small. Because when you see the length of the missile against the size of the drone, the missile was bigger than the drone. The Hellfire missile is very accurate, but it's also very effective. Even though the Hellfire struck the drone, there was no detonation. Did that missile even have an explosive on it? If it didn't have an explosive on it, then my explanation is they were filming a test. And the reason they could release the test was because it was no big deal. But then by not giving any context to it, they could show this for the congressional hearing. And at the time, nobody there said anything. I think that was a totally unimpressive video, but because the people there were just seeing it, they acted like it was a big deal. And so I was very disappointed, not only in the video, but in the presentation they made. And I don't think Congress is acting now in a matter to where they really are seeking the truth. They had a hearing so they could say they had a hearing. They had speakers so they could say they had speakers. But it was sort of a worthless event. And prior to that, as I came forward, people would ask me if you had a chance to speak before Congress, would you do so? And I would say, well, if they asked me after seeing what they did for this very short, limited congressional hearing this year, I would say no, it's not even worth speaking to them in the military. When you do something just to try to impress a visiting important person or general or something, you know, you call it a dog and pony show. Well, my impression of the congressional hearing this year was that it was nothing more than a dog and pony show. It they say that they had it, but they did not even really seek to go deeper than what they've done in the past. The previous hearings have been far more important than what occurred this year. So if you ask me my opinion, that's it. And I've always been the kind of person that if you ask me an opinion, I'm going to give it. No, thank you. And I appreciate the honesty, Dr. Rogers, because I shared at the time, I'm not going to go back into it because people listening know I was disappointed with the video. I don't think it shows anything anomalous. I know people were shown the video the day before the hearing. So to say it was shown for the first time at the hearing, people who claim that, that's not correct. It was shown the day before. And so a lot of folks who maybe say they saw it for the first time in the hearing weren't seeing it for the first time. And I think they could have done more vetting. And I think they probably know more about where that video came from than they've let on, which is really disappointing for me. And it took away from some interesting testimony. And it's really interesting to hear people like yourself who potentially could have spoken at future hearings now being put off because of that video. And that's perhaps the legacy of that last hearing. Well, if I was in that hearing, as soon as they showed that, I would have said, that's garbage. You know, the Hellfire missile did not explode. Why did the missile not explode? Probably it didn't even have a warhead in it. And all they showed you was a test. But because it was leaked, they could act like it was something special. But it was going after a drone and it was an unarmed Hellfire air to ground missile that struck it. There's nothing unusual to that video in any way, shape or form. I wonder, looking at the bigger picture then of disclosure, thinking about what you were privy to in 1992, the conversations you've had since, Do you believe the public, the people, could handle the truth and reality of what disclosure would bring? Yes. I was a Cold War child. I remember when I was in the first and second grade. That was back during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And we had our duck and cover drills. Now, for people who don't know what this was, they would show this little cartoon and it would say, duck and cover. And so you're supposed to cover your head, get under your chair, and that's going to protect you from a nuclear explosion. Well, I'm sorry, but I was the nuclear biological and chemical warfare medical officer for the 3rd Infantry Division in West Germany during the Cold War. Ducking and covering is not going to protect you from a nuclear weapon. That was all something that was just done to make the American public think, okay, we can actually do something to protect ourselves. But we knew that at the Cuban Missile Crisis that we nearly destroyed the Earth. Everyone knew this. Everyone who was alive back then. Nearly destroying everyone on the planet is big, but we handled it. You know, we just kept on living. If somebody showed us that, yes, all of these things that most Americans already believe anyway are real, they're going to say, okay, yes, but what does it do for me? And I think that the entire world is ready if the world government said, okay, yes, we're in contact with aliens. And then we'd want to know, okay, what are the aliens doing? Are they helping us? Are they hurting us? You know, give us the details. We are not stupid, incompetent people. Give us the details. Just before we get to finishing up, I've got a couple of listener questions for you, but I would love to get your thoughts, Dr. Rogers, on Ross Coulter. Just recently, in the last 24 hours, was doing his News Nation show where he gets asked questions from the public. And he talked about recently he was at Marshall Space Center on a tour. And he said they could see on the screens as part of the tour the director was taking them on the feeds from the ISS. So the space station has various cameras pointing in different directions. He said one of them was looking out into space. He said on the screen, someone nudged him and said, Ross, look at that. And on the screen, eight egg-shaped objects appeared from behind the space station that the feed was looking at. He said he mentioned it to the director who had his back to the screens to say, is that something that's supposed to be there? And he said the director looked around, turned back to them, flicked a switch, and the feed cut off. Now, for you, does that sound like a realistic scenario that would happen? Is it a case that the space station feeds that we hear so often get cut? And they do cut off from a live feed now and again for multiple reasons. Is that what would happen? And I wonder how often that kind of thing has maybe happened that you'd be aware of. Oh, okay. I'm not still with NASA, but to consider the idea that NASA is going to hide actual information, I'm already convinced of that. I knew that back in the 90s. So, all they're doing is a continuation of what they have done. They were doing this before I got to NASA. They've been doing it since I left NASA. They've been doing it in the Department of Defense before then. They've been doing it after that. We know that there are people within our government who take it on their authority to believe that they are going to control what is best. And so, I actually did a post on this just a couple of days ago. When I took my oath of office as an officer, I swore an oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Domestic enemies can be against the American people when they are trying to hide something that they just don't want the people to know. And so, my oath was not to a president. It was not directly to the Air Force. It was to the Constitution of the United States. And the Constitution of the United States is designed to bless and protect the citizens of the United States. So, I resent it when people who are in positions of authority decide that we, the people of the United States, do not deserve to know the truth. Yeah, I think that's very fair. Really interesting, though, that when you see the live feeds being cut from that point of view, and that was just on News Nation, folks, if you want to check that one out with Ross Coulter, they mentioned that. A couple of questions, Dr. Rogers, to finish off. Thank you very much for your time so far. Kimberly asked, did you ever treat a service person you suspected may have come in contact with any form of UAP? I would answer no. Is that a strict no, or is that because you have to say no to that? It's because I'm answering no. Okay. Hopeless Diamond asks, Are you willing to provide the name to congressional investigators of the gentleman who showed you the video if they had sufficient clearances to corroborate your account? I could not do that because even at the time, I didn't even really know who the guy was. So there's no way that I can go back now and say, hey, you know, I'm going to go back in time. And before he takes me in there, I'll just write down what his full name is so that I'll have it. 33 years from now, when I'm talking on the Internet videos that I've never even heard of in 1992. Yeah. But if, you know, that was 33 years ago, you could line up 50 people and that guy is one of them. And I wouldn't know who he is. Well, that was something I wondered if he had been in touch with you since. No, I couldn't identify him. He's never been in touch since or since you've came out and shared your story, no? No. But as far as I know, that was the one and only time I spoke with him and I never went back to that building. So that was a choice I made. You know, I'm not going to risk running into any of those people. I don't want anything to do with the building where somebody, without telling me, showed me a stinking flying saucer that I would have to cope with for the rest of my career and the rest of my life. He should not have done that to me. Purple Burglar asks, from your perspective, Dr. Rogers, what do you think is the biggest pressure point, whether it's Congress, the Pentagon, whistleblowers or the public that can make silence impossible? I have to believe that there is involvement with the non-human intelligences themselves. Now, the reason I say this is we recently had drones that were flying over Langley Air Force Base that we could not identify, we could not control. We had to move our F-22s because we were afraid of damage. The non-human intelligences have the capabilities that they could reveal themselves openly in any fashion they wanted and there would not be a thing the government could do about it. We cannot stop these things from appearing. In my mind, that makes me extremely curious about whether or not the governments of the world are actually working in contact and perhaps the non-human intelligences do not want the government to give full disclosure to the world. Because then we would be directly dealing with those non-human intelligences. If you walked into Walmart and there was a non-human intelligence standing there, you could interface with it. These beings, whatever they are, could have the ability to disclose themselves and there's not a thing the U.S. government could do about it. So, I wonder whether they're duplicitous in the conspiracy of hiding this for their own reasons. I don't know, but maybe the governments are limited in what the non-human intelligence will allow the governments to tell our people. I don't know. I think that's a very fair point. And the final question from Metal Matt, he asks, why is the Air Force so tight-lipped with anything associated with UAP, unlike some of the other military agencies, in your opinion? Well, the Air Force is very tight-lipped, but you also have to understand what does the Air Force do? The Navy has aircraft carriers, and so they control the airspace around those aircraft carriers. But the defense of the continental United States, our allies, all depends on, you know, during the Cold War, if the Soviets launch missiles, can we stop them? And if we cannot stop them, can we launch our own missiles so that we can make sure that they die too? This is something that is unique to the Air Force. The Air Force also operated the first reusable spacecraft, which was the X-15. And so, the X-15 pilots were actually getting astronaut wings that were separate from what the NASA astronauts were doing. So, the Air Force has had a whole lot more to hide than what the other agencies are. And so much of what has gone on, because I can assure you, there are things at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station that I dealt with. And the technologies were not just about the space shuttle and the launch vehicles. But those are elements that not only can I not discuss, I will not discuss. I won't even hint about them. And when I die, those secrets will go with me. And there's really not a thing I can do about that, because I'm not telling anybody. I know why it's secret. And there's a good reason for it. And finally, thank you so much for your time, Dr. Rogers. It's been wonderful speaking with you. And truly appreciated you retelling the whole story from 1992, the background, the context. It's been great. And I'd just love, for the final word, if you don't mind just, again, talking about the title of the book you've written, a little bit about it, and just how folks could buy that as well. Okay. Well, I wanted to tell my story. And so I, first of all, told the first chapter very straightforward. And then I have included information from the past that I think is very indicative. One of the things that I feel like a lot of people have is when military people like me and David Grush and these people before Congress use a lot of these fancy military terms, acronyms, and so forth. A lot of times the average people don't know what that means. So as I went through the book, I helped to explain, okay, if you hear this, this is what it means. If you hear this, this is what it means. So I gave explanations to an awful lot of the material that if you're not military, a lot of times you hear these terms, acronyms being used, but you really don't know what they are. So I spent some time in the book telling all of those things. But one of the things that I did at the end of each chapter was that I wanted to include elements of things that have happened to me in my military career. So that people who have never been in the military, you know, and all you've done is watch war movies or something like that. You get a clue as to what it's like in everyday life. You know, one of the stories, I was in the Gambia, and I wanted to send some postcards back home. I nearly got, well, I did get into a very dangerous situation where my life was potentially at risk, just because I was trying to buy stamps for my postcards. People who have never been in the military, never been to the foreign countries under the circumstances in which I deployed, and many others have deployed, they don't necessarily hear these kinds of stories. Also, at the next to last chapter, I did something that I felt was very important. As a doctor, I have seen very many patients from the military with PTSD, and there are non-military people who have PTSD, too, and it affects their lives. People who have seen a UFO could have PTSD from getting out of their car and seeing a UFO right above you, especially with abductions and other kinds of things. Well, too many times there is a stigma around saying, I have PTSD. So, at the start of that section, I just flat out said, I have PTSD. Now, then I'm going to explain about PTSD, and then I'm going to discuss many of the treatments that we now have that could help people with PTSD. So, as a doctor, I wanted to make sure that when you read my book about UAPs and flying saucers, you're also going to learn a lot, and that section about how people can deal with PTSD, I feel is extremely important because we have so many people who are suffering from PTSD. And by bringing it out as I did, hopefully there won't be as much stigma about saying, I have PTSD. No, thank you for that. And, folks, we got it from them, How Humanity Received ET Technology. The link is available in the description below. You can check that one out, and it will take you straight to the pages to buy that. Dr. Rogers, thank you so much for your time today. I've really appreciated it. Best of luck with the book. And also, thank you once again for coming out and sharing your story. Thank you very much. I think that the civilian agencies and news sources such as yourself have been doing one of the biggest elements in disclosure, and that is bringing out stories that when people hear and they say, oh, so that's what happened. Because, realistically, I believe everyone who is going to believe in UFOs and UAPs and non-human intelligence already do. There's plenty of evidence out there. The government keeps trying to say, don't believe your lying eyes. There's nothing to see here. But there is, it's just very frustrating to me because most people really know, yeah, they're real. They are real. That's all for this episode of That UFO Podcast. Thank you so much for listening and watching. If you enjoyed the show, please follow, subscribe, and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps others find the show. If you're watching on YouTube, hit like, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you don't miss future episodes. You can also support the show directly and get early access, add free episodes, and bonus content on Patreon, or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube memberships. All the links are over at thatufopodcast.com or in the show description below, along with merchandise and more. Don't forget, you can also pick up a copy of my book, Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects, available now in all good bookstores and through online retailers, including Amazon. Big thank you again to all of you for listening and tuning in. Until next time, keep looking up. You never know what you might see.