Al Borealis | Breakaway Civilization, Plasmas Jubilee, & The Esoteric Backdoor

Most surely they're beyond the rose-chested view. I find the most just don't know. Without THC, the Higher Side Chats show, Greg Carlwood. Let there be light, Higher Side Chatters. From the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And despite the vast spectrum of personality types, personal experiences, and trains of thought, it's clear that our culture is designed for information consolidation, down to things that serve the system's engineers and prop up the preferred narratives of academic authorities and wealthy industrialists. And the people must endure years of proper conditioning to feel smart when they parrot back the pre-approved perspectives and mock outside information. But control of the world is not absolute, and people like today's guest Al Borealis have found a way to carve out a counterculture narrative space full of highly compelling researchers that come with the same level of professionalism as anyone else, but present a wide range of unadvertised information the system strongly suggests we stay away from. He's interviewed many of the greats in many multi-part, multi-hour presentations through his long-running platform, Forum Borealis. And he is a true OG in a now-crowded space, and it's a pleasure to have him here. The counter-narrative highlighter, rabbit hole resident, and parapolitical podcaster from the mythic north, Al, welcome to THC. Thank you, Greg. What a milestone. Ah, not really, but it is a pleasure for me. I think we've circled around each other for many years, but never really crossed paths like this. I've listened to plenty of your interviews over the years, but I really don't have a great sense of when you started. And I know you have a members' forum as part of your website, but I was under the impression in the beginning that Forum Borealis was one of the OG forums, similar to Godlike Productions, back when it was all Project Camelot and Red Ice Radio. Was that ever true, or were you doing the podcast interviews right from the beginning? When was the beginning? Right. Let me first say that I never listened to podcasts, I have to admit. I listened sporadically to our mutual buddy Alex's Skeptico, because they were popular. This was back when you remember the Skeptic Wave? I was on the barricades fighting those guys. And so, when I started, very early, listeners mentioned THC. I thought they were talking about what? And you have to try it. You have to try it. Hilarious. Check it, I mean. And they were comparing my show to yours. Oh. Okay. And you just said that we have a lot of mutual guests, but I want to make sure that that's by accident or by nature, right? So, it's probably true, but it's because without knowing it, I mean, we're very different in style and everything, but it's true that we have a lot of overlapping. So, it's not strange then that we have circled, as you say. But I guess it didn't start that early, as you assumed there. For real, it was back in 15. So, it was just before they started closing the door for meritocracy at YouTube, right? You got in that door before me, so you got your fair share of earned popularity, right? I went from zero to 30,000 at YouTube in a matter of a year. Oh, yeah? Then they closed the door right behind me. I'm the last one who got there. And then it took me the next decade to double that. But I haven't done anything at YouTube in two years. I started at YouTube, and then I went from there to podcast, because I knew that was uncensored space. And I knew it was possible to do something there. And so, I got much better numbers there pretty quickly, actually. But I guess you did the opposite, didn't you? You started as a traditional podcaster, and then you transitioned to YouTube, or...? Well, I started as a traditional podcast that also just put it up on YouTube, and I ended up... From day one? Well, I mean, pretty close. Yeah, I would say so, because in the beginning, the podcasting thing, the infrastructure wasn't even really there. So, uploading an audio file with a picture to YouTube was pretty easy. And that's where a lot of the eyes were. But now, I have a YouTube of 100,000 subscribers, and I can't even get 5,000 views on a video. And I pretty much stopped posting there, too. I post clips of the members part of the interview on YouTube. And that's what I would think most of my listeners of the free show would be attracted to. Let me hear 10, 15 minutes of that free extra hour. But no, it just doesn't work out that way. And you learn that the algorithm really does dictate so much behavior. Even people who listen to shows like ours, which I consider counterculture people, who are used to having to put a little extra effort into getting the good stuff they want. Yet, the data doesn't lie. The numbers don't lie. If the algorithm doesn't like you, it doesn't matter how many people know about you. It doesn't get served up, and you definitely move to the back of the bus. It's okay. Luckily, I was never dependent on YouTube money. I never got money from YouTube. It was just a place to build an audience. And, you know, now it's basically nothing. And I don't want to be one of those people bitching about, well, I'm shadow banned and this and that. Like, look, you got to just do your thing. But the evidence is right there. 100,000 subscribers, and I can't even get 5,000 to check something out. That to me is like kind of significant. But really, it's just a small part of what I do. So it's super significant because I have half of that, and I get 6,000, and I'm bitching about that, okay? You know, they have graded. I learned this from Jimmy Dore because he has insiders at YouTube. If you're big enough, you get that. They have graded Naughty List, right? I thought I was at the bottom of that. You know, the only level below that is that you get kicked out. So I know I'm pretty low down, but I think maybe you're at even a lower level then. Maybe I'm at the second lowest level. Well, I've had two strikes many times, but then the two strikes tend to fall off before a third strike comes up. But when they're pulling strikes from your archive, there's really nothing you can do. If they're pulling strikes from a five-year-old show, it's like, okay, well, I haven't even done anything new controversial, so I can't even play by the rules you're setting. And it was legal when you did it. Yeah. It's like saying, hey, you were a bad guy in your previous incarnation. We're going to put you in jail. Yes, but I just don't like to elevate YouTube as super important to what I do, even though it could be, and it is for a lot of newer people starting. And, you know, I've definitely faced the wrath. I just don't like to give it all that much attention because podcasting is the bread and butter. It's a direct relationship. As long as you keep your website up, people can subscribe and it's fine. But it is really funny that I thought when I was first hearing the term Forum Borealis that it was a forum and you're hearing the term THC and you think people just want you to smoke weed, we got a branding problem, buddy. We don't know how to position ourselves. Right, right. Well, after Alex made me aware of you, I mean, I was made aware, but after he educated me better, I started to listen. I started with the shows you did with him. And then I checked other shows that I had an incentive to check because I knew the people, right? For example, you talked with other podcasters that I know and some other guests like Joseph Farrell, right? That I'm close with. Joseph Farrell, hell yeah. So, yes, I don't my fair share of THCing, but I still don't have that much time to listen to podcasts. So, it's good you can be in that position to have that attitude. I would say the newcomers, I feel sorry for them because they think they can make it at YouTube, but they can't. They are strangled even at around like 5,000. Like back when I started, the numbers you and me have, it was okay, but it wasn't impressive. Now people are impressed by my numbers and that's because they can't get above 10,000 subscribers. So, when they say, oh, you're doing good, I don't feel that. I'm angry at YouTube. But you probably know this as well as me, but I've been predicting this since 16 and before they started the so-called apocalypse, before they started that, I'm on record saying corporate media is going to use YouTube as a retirement home and all us independent media are going to be quenched there. That's the plot. That was a conspiracy theory then. And it's exactly the way it's gone. And I guess we shouldn't waste more time bitching about YouTube. I was just going to say the same thing, you know, enough shop talk. You know, the people are like, hey, you're wasting my time while I'm actively listening, talking about how no one listens. So, to get into the show itself, I know you know a lot about a lot. And I thought the best way to do this would be to talk about the series arrangements you've made. Digital content can be very churn and burn, but you've done a good job organizing your interviews into topics that a person can go through chronologically to get a great sense of a specific theme. Your first one is The Timeline of the Breakaway Civilization, and it contains a few one-off interviews, but over 10 hours of Peter Lavenda talking about the Nazi occult, as well as about 10 hours of Joseph Farrell, some Richard Dolan, Catherine Austin Fitz, and of course, Walter Bosley, all the right people, I would say, for establishing that such a breakaway group exists. Talk to us about your thoughts on what the shape and scope of a real breakaway civilization is. Where did it start? Is it bigger than just a Nazi continuation? And what sort of capabilities do you think it has? These sorts of things. Yeah. Can I just ask where you gleaned that list? Because I haven't updated those things in hundreds of years. Well, I know you haven't updated them on your website, so I went looking around, and they're on the YouTube to bring it right back. I'm so embarrassed you've even been on my website. It sucks. But the thing is, I have much more episodes in those areas. I just haven't had time putting in and saying these are the episodes in these areas, especially that one, because that one has to be listened to chronologically. Because if you do that, it's like a timeline. And when you have a timeline, you get a bird's perspective, and then you start seeing patterns that you weren't aware of, if you're just here and there, right? But some of those you mentioned were some of the first ones in that series. I'm having another one in that series next week. So your question was... Essentially, where do you think that timeline starts? The breakaway civilization timeline? Well, you know as well as me that we could go back to antiquity, right? But there I have another series called Evidence for Antediluvian Civilization. So I just chose to start with the industrial area, Tesla, around that time for my series. But if you're talking phenomenon, even there, we could start at the end of the 1800s as far as our current civilization goes and the potential branching out from there. But there is always this Anunnaki factor or whatever you want to call it. Yes, we've talked many times in previous episodes about how the late 1800s seems to be like a real renaissance period where people are experimenting and health and alternative energy and all sorts of things. And then there's a big clampdown right at the beginning of the 1900s, the Rockefeller stuff. They say, hey, this is the pre-approved things. We're going to go oil only, everything else, all the other fuels, put them away. You know, all the other machines, put them away, take the Hindenburg down. We want absolute control over transportation, energy, and medicine. And a lot of people I've talked to now, they're looking, they're scouring for books that were written back in this time because you'll read some amazing things about electrical sciences, ether sciences, and all this stuff. But if we're talking about a group of people who have broken away from the rest of us and are technologically advanced to a degree that would seem almost alien, well, maybe that starts with the NIMSA and the Aero ships and the Walter Bosley stuff. Or does it go a little bit before that? Because to me, it's like the Germans who are in America. That's kind of what Walter talks about at this time depth that we're discussing. It seems to be kind of when they started to get some things off the ground, pun intended, and probably not advertised to the rest of us what they were doing. What do you think? It's interesting because right now, as we speak, it started the 3rd of December, this insane UFO flap, car sizes, kind of drones. Are you talking about the drones over New Jersey or something else? Yeah, but we don't know what it is. They just call it drones, probably to create panic. And because now we have drones, right? So we have something to compare with. If this was 200 years ago, we would say angels are flying in the sky. Such an interesting timing too, huh? So I'm mentioning that because many people think that's the deep state pulling a last desperate card before. I mean, one of them crashed. There was a helicopter chasing it. So what I think here is that the most likely, it's by far not the only potential explanation, but most likely it's one segment of people here doing that. And then most of the government, the state, the public, the officials, they are not aware of this. Because let's circle back to the notion of a breakaway civilization. In the beginning, I imagined it like it would be if it was the ancients, right? It's people all like, have you seen Iron Sky, those two movies? Iron Sky, yes. Yeah. So there we have people physically breaking away from Earth, living on the moon, living inside the Earth. But the notion of a breakaway civilization is, in its most extreme, could be that level, but is definitely the following. There is a strata within our terrestrial civilization, a strata of people who have access to a level of technology that makes us look like a human. Now, they don't necessarily go to Mars to work, but whenever they wake up in the morning, they wake up in a protected, high middle class or upper class suburbia, then they kiss their wife goodbye for the day after they drink their coffee, and then they go somewhere, probably an underground facility. And then from there, who knows whatever happens, right? Maybe they do go to Mars, but at least they are secluded then in what they are engaging in there and then. At the level compared to what the rest of us are exposed to. So it's a breakaway civilization in those terms, not necessarily in their private lives, but in what they are controlling and accessing and playing with. And those guys may be behind those drones. And today, and more than ever now that the Trump administration takes over, are extremely separated from the public. Remember, the powers that be. By the way, you said energy, you said in the 1800s, they wanted control of energy, they wanted control of transport, medicine, but you forgot the fourth. Those three are correct. And then the fourth is money or monetary control. So now they can't leave to any access to these things to the state because for them, the state, the public is something they need to hijack to get control. Otherwise, it's an enemy to them because if they don't control it, there's different ways to control it. In America, they control it via the corruption and the blackmails, right, of the politicians. But if they can't control it, it's an enemy and they have to fight it. They learned that the hard way when the revolution started to happen from the 1700s and up. And so to them, it's much better to have these breakaway civilization tools in private corporations, in multinational, globalist, oligarch-owned corporations. And then, of course, deeper levels there, just as if it used to be deeper levels within the normal state. There's deeper levels within there. And that's the way they have to do it because the corporations are running the state anyway. And now that things tend to spill out and there is a renegade cowboy administration coming in, loose cannons, more than ever they need to protect these things from, because they don't trust Trump. I'm not one of those who look at him as a savior, but I certainly look at him as an obstacle. He's not in on their plans and everything. So, yeah, that's what I want to nuance it with. I'm not saying they're not sitting on Mars. Maybe they were there ever since the Tesla thing. But definitely what I'm talking about now is true. Just look at the Internet. They had the Internet long before we mortals got access to it, right? It's always like that. It's been like that at least since the Second World War that they achieved something great technologically. Then they explore and try it out. And then when they have reached a few more levels so that this becomes obsolete, dumbed down, then they downgrade it and throw it out to the masses. And we, oh, have you seen the latest this or that? Oh, AI. Oh, my God. Right? As if it's a new thing. Right. Just new to us. So, in that series, you have a Nick Cook interview, author of The Great Hunt for Zero Point. And in the description, you obviously describe what the interview is about. And then you say, plus, learn about Dr. Jacques Vallée's shocking proof that UFO close encounters are all staged. Staged in all caps. And that's interesting. I've heard him say that there's a pattern. Then he's used the term a schedule of reinforcement as if they want us to believe they want a certain amount of people to believe. So, they make sure they pop in every so often to capture the minds of enough people. That sounds kind of adjacent to staged, but staged is a strong term. Are you saying that you really think or, you know, based on your interpretation of Jacques Vallée, it seems like all close encounters are staged? Does staged mean human-derived? What do you mean by that? I was quoting him at the end of the show. Actually, a colleague of that chap I interviewed, I wanted him on because he wrote a book about UFOs, UAPs. And he criticized me. Why are you saying that? First of all, you guys didn't even discuss this. Where did you take this from? Okay, I said. You didn't listen to my afterword. Hilarious. I tend to pontificate at the end of certain shows. Guilty myself. Right. And what I did there was that I read, I could pull it out now and read it, a quote from his book, Messengers of Deception, I think. And this is his words, not my interpretation. And it's not even that he opiniates. What he does is that he analyzes. This is brilliant research. Even back then, when we knew so much less, he was innovative in the way he approached it. So he did a statistical analysis because he's always been a vanguard in terms of using computers for this thing. He analyzed it. He found out, look, I'm just now going to pull it out of my Nobel behind. So this isn't a quote because I can't remember that. But anyone can run over. Do you remember what the show is called? It's your interview with Nick Cook. So they could probably just look that up. It's the first in the Breakaway Civilization series or the last, depending on how the playlist is ordered. Right. But I just never knew Valet used the word staged. I mean, I've read that book too. It must have been something I just forgot. I forget more than I remember. I can tell you that. THC and all. It sounds eerily familiar. But no. So to try to render a reinterpretation of what he said. He said that if we are to assume that these are real occurrences, natural occurrences. Oh, it's an accident. Oh, I just happened to crash here. Oh, I just happened to be caught off guard. A human is coming while we're repairing the ship. Oh, I just happened to land here to check some cows or some plants. And oh, oh, we're observed. Now, if these things are natural, he said. According to these numbers. And he gives out the math and everything. And it's actually he's underestimating it. Especially now with the intensity in increasing. Then he spreads it randomly. There should be an UFO counter like every 10 minutes. Everywhere. So these things are not naturally occurring. So when he says they're staged, he means they are arranged. He means it's like a dog and pony show going on. It's a deliberate thing. Pretending to be. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. We just crashed here. You understand? That's what he's getting at. He's not saying that they are fake. He's not saying that. Well, do you understand what he means? Yeah. Arranged is a great term. Arranged is a little less aggressive. But yeah, I do know what you're saying. We've both heard many, many accounts. And so often it is. I was walking in the woods and then I looked to my right and saw some little beans coming out of a craft, picking flowers or doing something. Looked like they were doing their research, just like you say. And then they're like, oh, surprise, you caught me. But I don't understand the logic of such a thing. Jacques Vallée has talked about the projector and the projection that the thing is not the thing, that you're being shown something that is manufactured by something else. Well, what is that something else? And what is the reasoning behind such a display? I think we could get some help from Jung here. Although he actually touches even UFOs and even in this relation. But this isn't why he was studying the human mind. So what I'm talking about now is bigger than UFOs. But he says that, you know, reality is reality. And like Kant established, we can never access reality directly. Kant says that everything we perceive goes through the thing in me, which is my consciousness, my filters, my associations, my knowledge, my experience, also my connection to the subconscious. All these things. Look behind me there. You see a purple kind of wave vibrating? Yeah. Now, I said purple and you immediately knew what I meant. But you have no way of knowing if that green you see now and that purple, what if that's switched in my perception? It's just that I'm trained to call that one this and this one that, right? And that's a simple way to put it. Now, what if when we filter the vibrations that are reality, everything is just an energy ocean of vibration and these vibrations are structured in different ways? For example, we call some of these structurings, we call them hertz, amplitude, curve form, et cetera. You can also talk geometrical terminology. Actually, everything is math at the end of the day. It's numbers. But the point here is Jung says the thing in itself and the thing in me are two different things. So everything I perceive is aspects of the thing in me. It's a filter. It's like I see you now, Greg, and I see you through my subjective filtering system. And it's not just the color. It's everything is dependent on my consciousness. If you put a knife in my head and I survive that, I may have a distorted, different view of what... When you're a baby, your apparatus is working 100% similar to it now. It's nothing wrong with it. It's just that you aren't trained yet to start sorting this overwhelming oceans of vibrations bombarding you. So for you, it's like a kaleidoscope of... It's probably a trip, right? It's like a Jimi Hendrix kind of thing. And, oh, we have to put up bright, glimmering things that it can recognize. It starts recognizing the mother first. I think even the voice and the smell before the shapes. And gradually, the baby is starting to make... We call it sense. Maybe it's starting to limit what it's perceiving, right? But gradually, it starts recognizing these patterns, these geometrical shapes. And it starts putting names to it. This is Adam and Eve in paradise, right? They're naming things. They're distinguishing things. It's the human evolution. And before you know it, their consciousness is now trapped into these squares that we're putting everything in. Now, Jung says, the archetypes are the thing in itself. And we are not equipped. Because how can a small fragment, let's say a bacteria within my body, conceive the entire universe it lives in, which is my body? It can't. Except, actually, in esoterica, we have a backdoor. Remind me of that one. So, we table it, because I want to get to the point here. So, what he says is that the archetype is so overwhelming, it's like looking into the face of God, as the Muslims who say this. And so, we can't. And that's why we call it a UAP now. We could call it Virgin Mary or an angel. We could call it, in Norway, in the myths we have here, Nyssa. My grandfather saw that, and he was a goddamn atheist. They've also discovered that it was just like a UFO thing. Only they were appearing to him with these Nyssa lua, Nyssa caps, like the friggin caps. Like the gnome cap, are you saying? Like the friggin cap? You know, Santa Claus, have you seen his cap? Right. A lot of times, people have talked about that as like the gnome's cap, or like a dunce cap look. Yeah, exactly. So, this is a perception issue. And that's very related to, so what Balea says is that, especially if you have no knowledge and association, and you can't even handle it, that's another thing. There's so much in reality people can't handle. Those who listen into your show and my show, they are getting a kick out of getting their paradigm challenged. But you know, that's still, even though we live in this day and age, which is very different from where we started out, it's still a minority. And most people get freaked out. They're not seeking truth. They get freaked out. It's like going to a Jehovah's Witness or a Scientologist and trying to convince them of the opposite, right? So, something is playing with our perceptive mechanisms. No, not necessarily. It's just being it, and we can't be like the baby. I can't make sense of what I'm confronted with. So, it reverts to the closest thing. So, if I'm growing up now in this mechanical, technological age, I'll immediately think of it as a UFO, because that's what I'm being brainwashed since I was little. This is his point. So, I've heard this, obviously, this explanation before. I think it has merit. But the issue is, if we're going to use that example of being in a field, seeing some little beings come out of a ship with some doohickeys, start taking measurements, and then getting back on the craft. That is common. Or seeing a flashlight, and now you're on a craft. And the being is showing you a star map of the galaxy, and trying to point things out to you. Teaching also seems to be kind of an aspect of this, information, downloads, and all that. When you're saying that we're confronted with a thing, and then it's so bizarre that our mind, our consciousness tries to go through our Rolodex and find the closest thing, how could that be the closest thing? You know, what are we actually looking at where our mind says, oh, I don't know how to process that, so I'm going to show you little green men picking flowers and taking them back to their craft. That's not common. You know, you would think it would be like, oh, I saw deer in a meadow. It looks like deer. Like, why is our brain clicking over to another very bizarre thing? If we're seeing something so bizarre we can't process it, the thing that it's replacing it with is equally bizarre. This is a very good point you're raising, but I see that point, and I raise you with this. And I have to say, first of all, folks, I'm not rejecting out of hand that there is such a thing as extraterrestrials in the sense of organic beings in another planet, in our universe. So I'm not rejecting that. But, have you seen how from, I think the first real sci-fi started around Tesla's time, but it took off, of course, in the 30s and the 40s and the 50s. But we're anthropocentric, so we anthropomorph everything. Have you seen how most of these aliens are just like lizards? They all look alike. And insects, they all look alike. Or these gnomes, little green men or gray men, they all look alike. They have no individuality. They are just projections of, well, look at the human beings. We look like everything under the sun, right? Why are we so lucky? But they did not look out, and they're allegedly more advanced than us. So, no, I would say that reverting to mythological, because that was my point, pointing to my grandfather's experience, is that it's not that different from little gray man, what he experienced. Now, he wouldn't even fathom that that could be compared to UFOs. He grew up in the hard 30s. So, to him, he had nothing to do. It was some nature phenomenon. And his mother was Christian, and she didn't even see it, because she had a Christian filter. Well, what do you think the trigger is? Ah, no, you're asking the right question. Cooking with gas. I've done this before, actually. Right. No, but this is, I'm not even going to venture to answer this, but this is the line of questioning we have to go to, to get somewhere. And you said something very important. You said that they are often in a teaching situation. Now, again, I'm not saying there's not such a thing as a metallic spacecraft out there, okay? If anything, I'm on record thinking that, only that most of them come from us. But, in those cases, and I guess Joe Rogan has touched this, in those cases, what we're talking about here is classical spiritual experiences. Rogan often either compares it to, like, entogenes, hallucinogenes. You've been down this road a lot, too. A little bit. The spirit of the plant are teaching us. But it could also be, like, shamanic. It doesn't have to be connected to a substance you take. It's easy to reproduce these things. Actually, the reproduction is taking the substance. So, this is classical. Again, Jung would say, there's nothing new here. Why would they come all the way from Syria just to pick up some potato farmer and teach him some basic New Age stuff, right? And then drop him off. I mean, come to me. I'll do it much cheaper, much less trauma, okay? And probably better wisdom, too. So, if I can toot my own horn. So, no. There's something else going on in many of these. This is the problem. We're looking at the sea. And we're talking about what's moving in the sea as if it's one thing. It could be a submarine. It could be a shark. It could be anything, right? So, this is the same for space. Speaking of that, I always mention this when we go to this discussion. Have you seen, of course, you must have seen, the incredible outside of our atmosphere now or in the top of our atmosphere, especially between here and the moon. Forget about these pathetic black projects that humans are behind. Have you seen the football stadium? Ackmans pulsating and moving about there. It's like thousands of them. One of the best footages is the leak that came from the NASA TV back in the day. It's called the Tether incident. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've seen stuff like that. The stuff Trevor James Constable used to highlight. He called them plasmas. Plasmas is trendy now. But he said it, you know, before I think I even started my show. He was talking about organisms in space getting picked up. And there's the Black Knight satellite. You know, that's kind of folded into a more conventional, like, humanoids on a craft thing. But, yeah, I mean, I can't believe this is going like it's going because, I mean, we barely scratched the surface of my notes here. But I got to bring it back to the esoteric backdoor that you mentioned. Yeah, I just want to say about those huge, if it's plasma, they are football stadium big, okay? And organic is the thing. Plasma is interesting because plasma is like the Muslims talk about jinns, plasma creatures. Plasma is the highest level. We have earth, water, air, and fire. Plasma is directly, it's fire, directly manifested without a substance, without a body, without a vehicle made of anything in the lower frequencies, which classically would be earth, water, or air. So, if these are plasma creatures, they are huge. And organic is one thing. And let's say there's organic things out there that's always like that, like an animal floating in space. But more interesting is organic in frequencies. Because the very definition of matter is that energy is forming structures that at least have to have atoms. I tend to regard all subatomic, so-called particles. They're not particles. At that point, they're waves. But all subatomic structures are metaphysical or immaterial. So, to have matter, the energy has to combine to atoms and then to molecules and then to cells, etc. So, there is possible that if something is of a very high frequency, the problem here is the birds we are using. It's still energy. But now, this energy is at such a high frequency that it's going out of our perception range. That might be what happens with UAPs, too. That you and me, we go into construction. It starts vibrating. We are protected because of the bubble field, the energy field around. And to everyone outside, we're going out of time and space. The energy is increasing. And at some point, we go out of the sound range. At some point, we go out of the visual range. Now, to you and me, we can drink coffee and be as physical as anything within this bubble. But to those outside, we now become pure energy and just disappear, right? And this is, at some point, we have to go through this plasma level. Now, there may be organic life who can do this. So, now we're talking interdimensional life. And there was reports a few years ago that they have seen organisms in higher frequencies in plasma. But they stopped talking about it. And, of course, now we're talking like this is what they always go to. It's like microbes at Mars, right? It's not that big of a deal if it's just primitive organisms. That's what they're talking about is in the energy field above what we can perceive. So, we can only see them through altered machinery like infrared, ultraviolet, x-ray. And that's also how they are seeing these huge things in the outer atmosphere. So, there's definitely something going on outside of what we can perceive. And I don't see a big difference between that and religious notions. Now, the thing you asked me to go to, I already forgot it was a backdoor to something. You called it the esoteric backdoor. You told me to bring you back to it. I'm just doing my job here. You are. And I'm so impressed. Oh. No, no. I'm impressed because it's morning at your place. You just woke up, didn't you? I got small kids. So, I'm up way earlier than a lot of other people. But, you know, let me ask you this then. So, we know that our brains can produce realistic visions. It happens every night when we dream. Sure, there's the sleep trigger. And we know that it can happen when we take certain compounds. There's the psychedelic trigger. But then there is something else going on where when people are just walking around, living their life, something triggers a mechanism. Now, I know that we can produce these things, but there seems to be some outside force that can manipulate that ability deep in our consciousness. Maybe it's something like Graham Hancock says, just DMT that's produced in the brain. Just, whoop, a DMT trip produced and you weren't ready for it. Sure. I mean, I can accept that. But I also, I'm just really intrigued by the idea that there is a conscious outside entity that, when it wants to, can just make us switch into dream creation mode during waking life and have us see crazy, bizarre, Freudian things. Yeah. By the way, I remembered that esoteric backdoor. But you want to take us in an esoteric direction. So, let's do that then. I don't think we can discount what most tradition, spiritual tradition, agree about. And that's that there's something unique to the human condition, meaning that we are, unlike animals and unlike angels, let's say there's forms of existence at every level, right? You have the mineral kingdom, you have the vegetable kingdom, you have the animal kingdom, and you have the human kingdom. And above that, you have the kingdom of the gods. Those are the five levels. Now, we as human beings consist of minerals, we consist of vegetables, we consist of animals. In other words, we are rulers. We are already passing the domain of earth, water, air. And we live in the creative space of fire. The only difference between us and animals is that we can create. Animal can't. Some think animal can't think. No, of course, they can think. It's just very rudimentary. But some animals have intelligence at the level of a seven-year-old. Dogs and cats at the level of three-year-old. As a father of small children, you can appreciate that. Three-year-olds are super intelligent. By the way, what I'm saying now isn't downvaluing of animals, because if they are less worth than us just because they are not as smart, then it means that retarded people are less worth. And babies, then we should kill babies. If it's okay to kill animals, it's okay to kill babies. I didn't know you were eugenicists, Al, but I guess I can deal with that. No, so I'm saying that's not okay. I know, Jeff. Yeah. Now, human beings, you know, if you're a stone, let me quote Rumi. God dwells in the stone, breathes in the plant, dreams in the animal, and awakens in man. So if I am a stone, I already mastered the level of minerals. My goal is to get to the next level. I'm looking up to the trees and the plants. Oh, my God, you're such above me. They can breathe, and they can even move a little, more than a stone can. Now, a tree strives to become to the level of an animal. An animal strives to conquer our space, fire, to become creative. And dogs and cats and pets can adopt. They are getting a boost in their evolution by being so close to human beings. Now, humans, we are not frozen at this level. We are striving to get to the fifth element. We are striving to conquer the realm of the gods. This is what the story of Enoch becoming Metatron, the first human being who goes all the round. We start at top, as the angels do. Then we go from God's crown. We go to the intermediate level where angels are. I'm not talking literally now, folks. This is symbolism. So they are hovering there. That's why they're depicted with their feet not touching the ground, because they are not material. Then you come down to the darkest, densest space where we are, human beings. And then our destiny is to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get back up again. And this is a circle, right? So if the angels are here and we are down here, yeah, they are higher than us, but they are innocent. They are inexperienced. They are more spiritual, but they don't know the goddamn suffering we are going through down in the darkness. So when we get up here, we're at their level again. Only we are wiser because we have the entire evolutionary experience. And this is why God said that, Enoch, you are now my right-hand man. Sit here on the right side of my throne. And that's why the two people who became angels, their name are not El, like Mikael, Gabriel. Their name is Metatron and Sandalphon. So Lucifer gets jealous and revolts. How can these lowly human beings be at our level? And I'm used to be number one. And we know the story from there, right? Paradise lost. So what I'm saying is we have something. Look around you. I see human beings operate at the level of animals. And I see human beings operate at the level of angels. We have the potential within us. And what they all agree about, this tradition, is that there's something in man that we are connected to the source all through the universe, all through the dimensions and vibration levels that potentially it's like if this is a simulation, then it's God who's put himself into this simulation or those beings who put themselves into this simulation are at the level of those who created this simulation. But while in the simulation, we are forgetful and we have to start from scratch. It's the matrix thing, right? So maybe it's true what they say, the Gnostics, God was lonely and created all this thing within itself. And now, and the fun, you know, that's why love is the big thing. Because with love, with splitting myself into multiple manifestations, I forget that I'm just everything, all one big thing. I'm not the number one anymore. I'm multiplying number two, number three, number four. And, but I meet a woman. Of course, it's God in both. But both of us have forgot that. So we get that bliss of experiencing how it is to be rewined again. Like we will do when we die. Only now it's to become one. And we forget this darkness for a while. And this game, this simulation must be the most interesting thing going on for a creator such as that. This is why UFOs, some of these UFO beings, just like the angels, they are below us. And maybe that's why we demonize them, because they are jealous. Maybe that's why all these greys, these gnomes all look alike, because they are just machine elves, as Cliff High called them, or it wasn't really him. It was this psychedelic guy. Terrence. Yeah. So know that you are a conqueror and your destiny is to become so much more than what you are. And that's the human experience. That's a human task. I like it more than what you are. Wow. Cheers to that. Great breakdown of reality. I know, but you're a synthesizer, as am I. And we talked to some of the greats. So we synthesize, given the topic, what the greats say. And I'm right there with you on the way reality works. You basically described my spirituality, and that's based on observation and what seems to be true when you look at the periphery of experiences that people have, instead of ignoring them and say, well, that doesn't fit with Christianity, which is what I'm doing, which is the real thing. It's like, no, adjust your model to incorporate all this other stuff and say, well, this must be a thing. This must be how it works. So I like that. But let's add another factor. And that is magic. I know you've done a lot of interviews with Peter Lavenda and Gordon White and at least one with John Michael Greer. There are these people that say, yeah, in your destiny, in your human experience, you can alter it. You can actually take the reins of it in ways that society says you can't. And you can summon little things to help you along. Or you can, as Gordon says, magic is a luck multiplier. And you can basically nudge yourself towards the outcomes that you want by doing somewhat bizarre, unrelated things, seemingly unrelated things. But maybe they're all mechanisms to rewire your own consciousness, to get you to believe you can make those changes that you want to do that actually will have an effect. And you're not just a victim or a random speck in a meaningless random universe. What do you think about magic? I don't know how much you might have engaged or experimented with it yourself, but it seems like, based on your interviewee history, that you would think there's some merit to the mechanisms there and this huge body of material that suggests that you can have a bigger influence over reality than you think you can. Oh, damn it. First, you managed to get me to alienate all those segments of our listeners that are into aliens. Like, now I'm going to alienate all those who are into magic. Well, that's my goal. By the end here, nobody will be listening and I'm going to beat YouTube to the punch. But that's the price of being honest, right? Amen. So, I dabbled in magic when I was younger. Uh-oh. But I'm too lazy to be a magician, honestly. Agreed. Yeah. But the biggest problem I have, just like Christians, I don't reject that paradigm at all. In fact, you know you can be a Christian magician even. So, I respect every paradigm. If you go back to Jung, I can't force anyone to have my outlook on things. That's crazy. They would have to come into my shoes then. And it's the same with magic. So, what I'm saying now is not the dismissal of magic. But there are certain, just like I could tell you, but that would be a waste of time because everybody knows it. I could tell you warnings about being a Muslim, warnings about being a Christian, even warnings about being a Buddhist, warnings about hallucinogens. Well, people doubling in magic tend to get their ego to, the ego grip too hard. It's just like if you're too rich, too wealthy, the same will happen. We are not meant to have extreme power. And I would define myself as spiritual and esoteric. But the only magic I would engage in today is theology because that's not me forcing forces to unravel and unfold according to my little will. Because I'm just, that's like a cancer. If one of my cells start, wait a minute. I don't care what the brain is sending me of an order because the brain has that task of arranging things. Everybody has its lot, right? I'm tired of this machinery thing. I don't want to pull this lever anymore. Now I want to start doing what the brain does. Then I get cancer. I think that, theory of the folks, by the way, means divine magic from theos. Okay? God. So if it's God's will, to put it classically, you know, however you define God, if that's what's going on, I'm all for it. Then I'm just a vessel, a vehicle for that energy to unfold. Then it's like the Templar said, non-nobis. Not me, not me, but you. So that's my caveat with magic is that lower magic is ego-enforcing, ego-enhancing. It doesn't have to. I'm sure you can, some people can manage to keep some kind of healthy humbleness in it. But more often than not, I see that that doesn't work. And it's a blind path because you become very crystallized, very frozen in the mental space, in the intellectual space, just like the skeptics. And that's not the ticket to God. Emotions are love. Now, let me throw this out at you. So I agree with you. I'm too lazy to be a magician. It's very complex. You have to get your ritual timing down. You've got to read the grimoires. It's really academic, for sure. People who think there's nothing there. Actually, there's more there than you realize. And I can't engage with it. It's a full-time job. But I also agree that a lot of people who engage with it do develop ego issues. And sometimes they bring a lot of trouble into their life. But if we are all fractals of the Godhead initially, isn't engaging with magic just remembering a fraction of that reality? And instead of thinking, oh, well, here I am plopped into a life with no control. I'm going to go through the motions and this and that. Just basically being remembering, I am God. And thus, I'm going to alter this experience that I crafted for myself a little bit to what I think I want in this lifetime. Very good point, Greg. I want to say that I didn't say, like, become a masochist and whatever happens to me happens, right? In your daily life, you channel your will. You try to do what's best for yourself and those around you. But just like the Christians pray, not just the Christians, of course. That's a more humble way to do it because then it's God or cosmos or destiny or whatever karma. If I'm allowed to this and that, can I achieve this and that? So it's natural for people to try to reach out and even find shortcuts. I'm not condemning that at all. And I guess if I was suffering more, I would probably be desperate enough to go to magic more, right? I agree with that too. If you have okay karma, you kind of don't need it that much. Just be a good person and try to be the best you can for yourself and others and tend to fall into place. By the way, what's so wrong with a little suffering and some challenges? That's how we grow, right? And there's other tricks we can have up our sleeve too. We don't have to go to magic because the problem with it is that... If it was just like, okay, I'm a student, I have to write my thesis, I have to deliver it, and then hopefully I get a good grade. That's harmless. But in magic, you tend to... In lower magic, you tend to collide with other wills. It's your will and it's other wills. It's the golden rule, right? And you tend to step over others' shoes. Let's say we are vying for our position. You, me, and Alex, and Graham from Gramerica. There's a rumor. Joe Rogan is going to invite one of us on his show. He doesn't know who. One of us is sitting there praying. Oh, God, I want to go. Another one. Ah, whatever happens, happens. Laissez faire, right? A third one manipulates. Let's contact this guy because he knows Joe Rogan. That guy. And the fourth, he does magic. Okay? There are four different approaches to achieve one thing. Now, let's say that guy who does the magic thing gets that spot. And no, there's no more spots. So what he did, Oshii, was that he manipulated the forces so that he could come in a position that hurt another because he didn't get that. So you see what this is actually, this is the big deal. But what if it's about food? What if it's about war? What if it's about something serious? And I'm not saying every time you do magic, you are going over someone else's boundaries. But more often than not, we're talking about knifing to get ahead, right? It's unintended consequences, too. Even if you just, I want that apartment. There's a million other people who maybe needed it more than you. So I'm giving bad examples, but... No, I get what you're saying. I do. And I agree to a certain point. But I also think, you know, if you don't try to achieve some things, you know, you can always step back and be like, well, someone else is more deserving than me. There's a lot of people out there. Then you become one of those breatharians that won't even eat a damn fruit, you know, because you don't want to do harm to the universe. It gets ridiculous. People can take things to ridiculous degrees, but it is about that time that we start wrapping this thing up and finding somewhere to land. What is next for you? Are you just going to keep chugging along, doing the podcast? Any future plans worth telling the good people about? All that kind of stuff. If it was up to me, I would just continue low-key like I've been doing, slowly growing, having no worries, man. Doing my thing. But our friend Alex, he's such a devil. He's poking me and dragging me, throwing me into new challenges. He wants to utilize me in other venues than where I'm at. And I guess I'm taking the challenge. So right now we're planning an AI show together. By the way, aren't you living in California? I was. You're living in San Diego. Yeah, for many years. Me and Alex have had lunch together several times. Great dude. You mentioned that. I've been to his house. I now live in Florida though. Ah, so it's not that early. Ah, okay. I was super impressed. I thought it was like seven in the morning your time. Ah, I do what I got to do. You know, job's a job. It could be 7 a.m. I've had people want to interview at all sorts of weird hours and you just- What do you do with Australia? How do you deal with that? Ah, my good buddy, Gordon White. He's in Australia. We do it at his earliest convenience, which is usually 9 a.m. his time, which is about 5 p.m. my time, but it's a different day. So I've got to book him on the 15th slash 16th of the month. Wow. It's his 16th. It's my 15th. It gets weird and it was easier to do on the Pacific coast, but it's a job. We got to do the damn job. It's a job. Everything is a job, man. For me, it's a path in life right now. Yeah, it's a calling. I definitely am just being facetious with that, but I'm just saying that there are aspects of the work that are inconvenient and you just do it because it got me free from a real job that was absolutely every moment inconvenient and not lucrative. Real job in the meaning, suffering, right? Yeah. You got to put things in perspective. I got control over my life as you do. We get to do this awesome job, interview awesome people, but sometimes it is an inconvenient time and so be it. This is why I started because I was already talking with interesting people and I was figuring why not put a mic like the proverbial fly on the wall. Put the mic there and the listeners are the fly, right? Because it's a waste of time, me talking to this person and nobody else benefiting. I'm impressed. My race of people, quote unquote, would be impressed too. So folks, I'm talking now psychological types, okay? So that's how I started. And then the fun thing about having these conversations became a job. But yeah, Norway mysteries, we had UFO flaps in the 30s that we said were the Germans before the Nazis took over even. So up here and we have the seed vault and we have the Northern Lights and we have the Hollow Earth. You remember the Norway spiral when Obama? Sure. But the real kicker is, and by the way, we also have these myths. Yeah, we have the first open white UFO research. It started in 82 and it's been ongoing ever since. I'm talking exoteric, nothing esoteric. I'm talking university people studying UFOs since 1982 officially on the books. Check out my interview with the head guy. You may want to have him on. It's called the Hastal Lights. They found so many things. Hastal Lights? Hastalan Lights. Yeah. My interview with him is called Portals of... God damn it. What's it called? Fancy poetic titles. I never remember them. I think Richard Dolan. What's the organization's name? That's Hastal. Hastal. But just go Google portal and Forum Borealis. Okay. It's something about high strangeness, blah, blah, blah, if you want to have him on. And the reason they did this is that in 81, this remote place in Norway, suddenly billions of UFOs. People freaked out. What the hell is going on here? And the media was laughing and smearing. And then eventually people start, okay, we have to figure out what's going on here. So they put up cameras and they try to monitor and they see it comes in periods. In periods, we get these flaps and in periods, little is happening. But you can't deny UFOs. Long before your so-called disclosure in the American media and Congress and all that, it's all over the place. They can't say it's just plasma. There's everything from metallic stuff to nature phenomenal stuff. So it's kind of a portal. That's why I call it the show Portal. Maybe it's Portal of High Strangeness. Maybe that's the title. I like it. So you're doing an AI show with Alex. You're continuing Forum Borealis. Anything else you want to tell people about promotion-wise? Why we do the dance? You can check out my show if your interest is good. I mean, you already have a THC, so you don't really need my show. Ah, I like the casual pitch. You're incepting people. I know what you're doing. The soft sell. Yes, but to be honest, yeah, that's like what the Masons do, right? We don't want members. It's a secret society. In reality, they're desperate for members, but they realize, like Groucho Marx says, I don't want to join someone who wants me. So that's what they... But the real truth of the matter is I hate being on camera. By the way, I'm glad you stuck to calling me Al. I forgot to tell you to stick to calling me Al. Not my full name. And I hate attention. And the only reason I've started coming out of my shell doing this... Actually, Gordon. Gordon was the first to get me on... He wasn't the first to interview me, but he was the first to publish it. He beat someone else to it. Hilarious. It was Alex. Yeah. But the reason I do it is that I realized now that they are strangling our shows, the best way to grow is actually doing the rounds. Just like if I was selling a book, right? That is true. It's the best way to. So I'm doing it out of necessity. If it was up to me, I would just be a voice on a podcast and that's it. We're very much similar in that regard. Like I always try to let the guests be the star of the show. I don't really need to hear myself talk a whole lot. I stick to audio only, although the video is recorded so we can put clips out on social media because again, got to grow, got to use social media channels to put yourself out there because our shows are algorithmically challenged, should we say? People need intention to actually share our material with others and you need that word of mouth to actually work because the algorithms don't like us and that's okay. But things have changed since the days when we started this. It's been a decade plus for me and 2015, it's been a decade for you as well and the game has changed and we're just trying to keep our heads above water in rising tides, right? Yeah, especially now that if Trump actually does what he said he would do, namely this thing that you can't have it both ways, big tech, either you censor, go ahead and censor, but then we can sue you because then you are responsible for everything or you can't be sued, but no more censorship. You know what that means, Greg? It means that you and me, we can start publishing at YouTube again because it's going back to becoming a meritocracy. They can't have me. You didn't love me when I was there, so now I won't take you back. The bitter lover. Hell knows no fury. I agree. Yes, as a podcaster scorned. Yes. Well, this is a real pleasure, man. I definitely don't network like I should have long ago and I'm starting to more and it was really great to get together with you. You have a deep knowledge that you've retained a lot from your guests and just your own research and it was a serious pleasure. I'm sure people will agree. Forum Borealis is the place to go and keep doing what you do and take care. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for having me on. See you around. For sure. Ho, ho, holy hell, higher side chatters. It's been a long time coming. A legend in the space, the great white hope himself, Al Borealis. Like you'd expect after spending so many hours with all these great guests, some of it has rubbed off. I'm still waiting for that myself, but Al does a great job bringing it all together and having something to say about anything I could throw at him. And he could have a good time with it all too. A quality I appreciate very much. So I think this ended up being a great way to close out the year. If you haven't heard his interviews, I think you would like them. They're often three hours or even multiple parts of two or three hours. And I'm impressed with the amount of time he gets with some of these guys, honestly. So a ton of this material was right up my alley and we share a lot of the same thoughts and conclusions on the big questions. And it was fun to talk a little shop here and there. If you liked the first hour, you know the second hour goes deeper. We talked about his series from Solomon's Temple to Arcadia, secret societies, and an old sacred project from ancient Jerusalem to modern Oak Island. Of course, as I've been doing more and more, I brought up Patrice Chaplin and the Cathars and these portal places in that area. We talked about Howdy Makowski's, the Soul Trap idea, and Al's Blood Moon Illusion series. And we got into the Box Saga, the Mythic, Mystic North, and the Polar Myth. Really a great time all around. I know you know the drill. I hope to keep this train moving on an independent track. Help me help you become a Plus member and get the second half of every show. If you've ever been a Plus member before, consider coming back. It's a new year and we've made improvements. The custom RSS feed makes getting set up in the podcast apps so much easier. You don't have to mess with the username and password anymore. We have added support in the ticketing system if you do have a problem. And I'm going to be more involved personally in the forum next year. I'm going to pay more attention to the guest request thread and the Q&A. I think on a monthly basis, I'm going to try to clear out that Q&A thread for people who have questions for me specifically. But most importantly, I'm just going to keep trying to bring good interviews. It's all I ever wanted to do and I don't ask you to buy any unrelated products yet. I don't know that I will. The feedback on that has been pretty mixed. I do have some meetings set up and we'll see when we get to real hard numbers if it's worth it or not to me. I've had some people say they'd lose a lot of respect for me and I would understand that, but I think we all listen to shows that are full of ads and we still listen to them. And who knows, if the price is right, maybe I have some things in mind that I could do that would actually have you gain more respect for me. I do have ideas for what I would do if I do start taking the ad money and I have some ideas for what I want to do in the new year, but it's probably just a little too early to say anything about anything. So let's just not. What a tease, right? Well, as for the last episode rating with Brad Olson, very well liked 4.6. No complaints from me, few complaints from anyone. The comments are all very positive for the most part. Gotta love it. I imagine people who liked that show would also like this one. They're kind of similar. Not so much in content, but a little bit in vibe. And then as we do with the meetup calendar, let's see what is happening. Well, January 4th, we have two, one in London at the Monkey Puzzle and one in Brangingsville, Pennsylvania at McCall Collective Taphouse. And I don't know what happened in the cosmic energy to make everybody think January 11th is a good day for a THC meetup, but it's packed. We got Ola Brew in Hawaii. We got Raleigh Brewing Company in North Carolina. We got Hops on Tap in Portland, Oregon. We got Porsche's Cafe in Columbus, Ohio. Maybe the most we've ever had on a single day. And then we move on to January 13th, Lincoln's Beard Brewery in Miami, and January 22nd, Corner Bakery Cafe in Pasadena. There's a couple coming up in February, but we'll leave it at that for now. I love it, though. Great to see the calendar being used a little bit more than usual. Why not take a chance? Meet other THC fans. Meet people who live close to you, who maybe you can network with for various things. HigherSideMeetups.com to get more information on any of those events I mentioned or to make your own. Well, that is that. I'm sure you can hear it in my voice. I'm not exactly 100%, and yet I am in better shape than everyone else in this household, sadly. But it is that time. New Year's is right around the corner. Another opportunity to enjoy what we have. I feel as fortunate as ever, and I'm going to just keep trying to do my job well, as we all should. But that is the show. Enjoy, if you can bear it, one more song to cap off the year. I worked on this one way too long, so I hope you don't hate it. It's still Christmas time in my book. It's not exactly the vibe I wanted, but the delivery is good in the right places, so I will take it. I know that Al doesn't even like the term conspiracy, but I had to do it. It's all in good fun. We laugh so we don't cry. Big thanks to Al. I really appreciated getting to know him. A good colleague to know, I would say, and I hope we can do it again. But I'm out of here. I've done my part. Your move, civilization offshoots, plasma encounter engineers, and keepers are the big secrets, your fucking move. It's hard to hold them accountable, without knowing exactly who they are. It's hard to get to the purest truth, when it's buried down so far. It can be quite challenging, to pull what's right from all the rest. So tough to be trusted, when everyone has a different test. Seems there's still plasma's puppet strings. Is reality a trap? You clarity, hop up on his lap. You've been naughty. Process what you learn. He's a fun.