Breakdown: 'Sphere' & Loathing, Conciousness & Breakaway Civilisations

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I know we spoke about it last week, and there was another video released this week of the bugosphere moving through the sky, and you can clearly see at 1 minute 30 in the video, there's a wire holding the sphere up. Does this change the overall thing for you, or is this like a one video that you're like, hey, it might not be the same? How are you looking at this? There was a few questions on it, which is why I hadn't got to it yet, but we'll probably answer those within them. It's fine. We'll start there. It was in Yumba, Colombia, this one. This video was taken quite recently. So I am presuming, obviously, a different object, not the one that they're studying. But I think a lot of the issues around this, where people are saying, so they're just sticking cameras down and managing to film these things. I saw the video. I clipped it myself as well and put the short 11 second one out of just the glinting. Some people still aren't buying that that is a wire. It looks like you say there's a wire connected to the thing. You don't see a full wire. What you see is the sunlight reflecting and kind of going up it as you would with that kind of thing. I've seen someone mentioning that there's a lot of filament. And look, let me read what Doug said, okay, for example. Is it the fishing line? And he puts fishing line and glinting in air quotes. So I like your sarcasm already, Doug. In that one instance, which kind of looks like the orb firing something out, don't you think? Surely it would be visible more often if that was the case. There is attempts to recreate this using such setups and the movement is never as smooth and the liner filament is always more visible too. Remember, it's been proven the footage hasn't been tampered with, for example, to hide a hanging line. Maybe it's something that's already in the air. I've seen people say there's lots of spider webs in the air. If that is something that just happens to be going by at that time, it's incredibly, incredibly coincidental timing that what looks like a perfectly straight line is coming out the top of that sphere. For me, Doug, I'll be really honest here, Dan. No, it doesn't look like the thing's firing anything out. Yes, it looks like a line attached to the object. How they're doing it, I don't know. I can't work out the angles because the cameras on the ground looking up, it could be really high, it might not be that high. I don't think it'd be that hard to do without using CGI and stuff like that. A lot of folks are wary of this stuff, and it just seems they could really quickly... I reached out to Jaime Massan for some comment on it, and he's not got back. I don't think he's even seen my message, to be fair. My message is reading a very heavy Scottish accent, so that might not be helping. But it's not a good look. Whatever way you come down on it, I don't think it helps. And again, would I love this metal sphere to be an alien-looking sphere and flying around and have caught something on camera? Absolutely, of course I would. Great timing for me having a book coming out in September. But I don't think it is. Like, it's just... Yeah, and what's really funny, Dan, is the amount of folks who get in touch with me who are split around... I can't believe people are even taking this seriously. The markings on it look ridiculous. The etchings on it, it looks like a fuel tank. It doesn't look well-made. And it's almost like they're flabbergasted, to use an English or British phrase, that people are even taking this seriously. But then there's other folks who are like, this is just a debunking of something that's genuine and all that kind of stuff. So it's typical ufology, that there's people across the whole spectrum here who love it, hate it, are somewhere in the middle. I just think this video looks like they've managed to catch the sun hitting off the line holding the object up. Yeah, sure. Sure. And, like, I'm with you. You know, if we've got to reply logic to these things, and those initial videos and that initial boogosphere, that's not what we're seeing here. This is in a different place, so it's going to be a different sphere. So we kind of have to hold it separately. Whatever you think about the boogosphere, this is different. And as always, I think of Arkham's Razor. You know, the simplest explanation with the fewest amount of assumptions is most likely to be correct. It doesn't say it's definitely correct. It says most likely, because science works on, you know, percentages like that. So if we avoid assuming something about that video, then what would we make of it? You know, if someone showed you that without saying it's a UFO, what would you make with it? And I think, I'm fairly confident in saying that, most people, I think, would see that and go, that's a wire. You know, Beyonce isn't floating on stage. There's a wire. We kind of can get that there. So I think this latest video, I'm with you. I think it's an object on a wire. The video looks a little weird, almost like they've filmed it in slow motion or something like that. It not being tampled with after the fact doesn't mean anything. You know, special effects in Jurassic Park were amazing, and they didn't really have CG back then. It was all animatronics and, you know, stuff like that. So yeah, for me, this is a death knell for it. But at the same time, there's going to be a lot of people out there that want to talk about the boogosphere in the same way as people want to talk about the Nazca mummies and not have that affected by the Atacama skeleton studies and everything gets conflated. So it's just going to be muddy waters, again, for the UFO community as everyone talks across each other and there's no, like, central pulling direction for the subject. Yeah. For me, the boogosphere has just been caught at a Coldplay concert with a fishing wire behind it when it shouldn't have been. Damn, that really got... That was an expensive concert for that guy. I'll tell you that. Yeah, incredibly. Not only is he at a shit Coldplay concert, he's been caught. Can I ask... Just read out this. So one of my mates messaged me who's not UFO guy or anything. His name's Jamie, not Jaime. So I've got Jamie Musan here. So Jamie messaged me saying, what's this boogosphere meant to message you the other day about it? And I said to him, tell me what you heard, how you heard about it, and I want to know your thoughts before I tell you. So this was last week, okay? Sure. And he says, I think I saw something on Reddit about it. It responds to different sound frequencies. It was found in Columbia. Could it be a drone? They actually have possession of it, so it'll be interesting to see what they find out. And I put, could be. It's getting analysed. I'm wary. And he put, do you think it's man-made? And I said, could be. Doesn't mean it's not exotic. Might be a hoax. So that was my honest, fair stuff. I then sent him the video of what looks like the fishing line and just said, look above it. He said, lot of pish then. So yeah, that's very Scotch way of saying nonsense bullshit. Love the saying. This is what you need on T-shirts. Yeah, lot of pish. And then various hoaxes. But there's a member of the public folks, just your ordinary, you know, Jamie public asking me about something. And then me saying, I'm not giving him my opinion. I just went, look here, here's some stuff. Here's what it might be. It might not be. Not want to influence him. I don't do that. And I try not to do it on here. But even he was like, ah, that looks like nonsense. So yeah, don't know what I say anymore to that. It's not, it's not going to be breaking out and making everyone believe aliens are real. I would say unless one of them broke out of area 51 caused a massive fire. And yeah, never know. Yeah. Landed on the white house lawn. The sphere opens. It's the little guy like a men in black in the guy's head. You, you know? Yeah. Um, anyway, listen, riposte says lately. It seems there are different shades of disclosures taking place. You've got the serious grounded stuff and whistleblowers like Matthew Brown, the oddly recurring pseudo Christian narrative, e.g. how Jake Barber described his interaction or that quote from the Senator that Grush is working for. Uh, or listen, the real or fake guessing game of the Nazca mummies and co the drone situation from earlier in the year, et cetera, et cetera. I, and many others simply can keep up with what's worth following, which is probably by design. What are you guys takes or what's our takes, Dan on the many different avenues. Ufology is spreading down this last while and what's still worth keeping an eye on amidst the chaos. That's a pretty good question. I love the points as well. Shades of disclosure, 50 shades of disclosure. There's a movie in there. Uh, somebody commented that on the, the, the chat. Yeah. Nice. Um, yeah. Props as well for identifying the pseudo Christian thing with Barber. I think that's worth paying attention to. It's different flavors for different folks. I think, I think the most objectionably, objectively, um, agreeable part that, you know, my mom would talk about with me when it comes to UFOs, even though she's not interested would be the U S government stuff, because that's legislation, that's tangible stuff that she can keep a hold of. When I tell her about things like the boogosphere and the Nazca mummies and stuff, the eyes glaze over and she pretty much walks away. So, so that kind of stuff I would say is probably for aficionados of the subject. Um, whereas for people outside of the subject, the U S government stuff is probably the most legitimate kind of area of discussion. I don't think outside the subject right now, this has got much traction. Um, as we speak, I think that'll change when we get the hearings. Um, because I think that normally has at least some kind of impact and everything else. Sure. I think right now publicly in terms of any kind of quote unquote conspiratorial stuff, like we said earlier, Epstein files are, are taking up the news and the headlines and the waves. Um, in terms of that stuff, like you've mentioned just what's worth keeping an eye on. I think what's, what's your phrase Dan about, you know, hold it lightly, something or other. Oh yeah. Hold it lightly, take it seriously. Yeah. So for me, um, there's no harm at all in the Nazca mummies. I do keep one eye on that situation, but it is very hard to follow. Like Dan said, just me personally, it's hard to follow. Um, what's going on, who's working on it, what the results are from it. Um, the boogosphere stuff, I think we're going to see just fade away. Um, I don't think much will come of that. I, I still have some hopes for Skywatcher. They said the end of the year from what Gary Nolan said, that's piqued my interest a little bit more. Gary Nolan is someone who I do put a lot of faith into. I think when we talk about those individuals, um, who you would put as the, I used the phrase champions, the UFO topic earlier. I mean, like the bigger names who are involved in various different way, shapes and forms. And I, for Gary Nolan, for me is one who's, who's quite far out in front in terms of, I'll put a lot of stock into what he says, what he follows. I think he conducts himself well. Um, I like the fact that for example, with Skywatcher, he said very early on, if they do something I don't like, I'm gone and I'm walking. There was no over commitment to it. And he's come out and kind of backed that up again recently. So, um, the drone situation stuff, I think it was human tech with a little mix of really advanced exotic tech in there as well. But again, Chinese, um, yeah, Bugosphere will fall away. Nazca mummy stuff will hang around. I don't, can you disprove that, you know, or is it going to be disproved? Um, for me, I think right now that the whistleblower, is coming forward or where I've got my, I've got one eye on the whistleblowers, one eye on the, not Saul foundation, the Skywatcher stuff. Um, because that's where I'm like, okay, cool. Let's, let's see what happens there. Um, and in the background, you've always got the possibility of a decent sighting, some more video leaks coming out. I do appreciate Corbell and that and what they managed to get out. It's not for everyone. And don't, I know what, from some of the people who DM me and have long conversations about who they do and do not. Like I get that, but I like seeing the videos. I like seeing the content coming out. Um, and perhaps given, and all of that kind of jumbled answer that gave Dan, is there an element of what's so much going on potentially by design? Like rapport says, some of this stuff as they are to muddy the water. But for me, that at least shows there's something they are worth muddying. Um, sure. Yeah. Uh, I think it's, it's going to be a big mix, isn't it? Like there's going to be an aspect of like flood the zone with crap so that people can't discern the good stuff from the bad stuff and walk away from the subject. But then there's also an aspect of, uh, you know, entertainers and the grifters in this field, just trying to jump on things while, uh, thank you. Striking away the iron's hot kind of thing. Um, yeah, I'm releasing books and things. No, I'm kidding. And, and like perpetuating these hoaxes to, to raise their name in the community. So they get bigger audiences for, for things like that. What was it? Was it Batman forever or Batman and Robin that had a two face? I cannot remember. I think, I think it was Batman and Robin and Batman forever was Val Kilmer, wasn't it? And that was the one that had Riddler. Uh, no, it was Batman forever. Oh, it was okay. So Batman forever had two face. It holds a special place in my heart as shit as it is. Right. But so, you know, it's at the end of that where he goes to throw his coin up and Batman throws a load of more coins up in the air. Sure. Yeah. And he falls and that's how he, he dies because he's just, he's going after his coin. That's a little bit, I think with the UFO topic where you've got this real genuine, your coins there. But now and again, people in the background, gatekeepers, PSYOP operators, whatever, throw shit up in the air. Even people, let's just say the boogosphere, potentially, I'm not saying it is, is one of those things that the UFO community itself throws up in the air that muddies the water along with the other. So the good stuff's there. Or you just have to sift through all the other coins to get to it. It's a little bit like that. And just be careful you don't fall off the ledge into the vat of shit below you. Yeah. Pull Benowitz straight into the ledge. Josh said on that, so Josh, I don't think there's a PSYOP being conducted against the UFO community. And Dan, this is something you mentioned in the last episode. At least not anymore. If anything, it seems there's more of a general playbook. Confuse, contradict, and contain. The rest we do to ourselves. And this is something I've said before, Dan, I don't think you need the big PSYOP anymore. Because online, social media, the breadth of conversation, there was a real pleasantness and stillness now when you look back to pre-2000, before the internet and social media particularly, where there's a good reason that people weren't, and I say this fully aware of the irony of me having a podcast, right, or a social media account, that people weren't able to reach lots of folks that they weren't speaking to directly. Do you know what I mean? Like, whereas now everyone's got a platform and you're just reading largely what people's inner monologues are online in text format. And it's a lot of shit for the most part. Yeah, I would agree with that. You know, there's a definite kind of habit in this community, especially if you go over to Reddit, where if you disagree with someone, you get called a plant or an agent and people make out that just because you disagree or you don't think something's real, that you are part of a PSYOP. It's a shame to see because it's kind of a loss of rational thinking, I think. Yes, it's possible. It's a possibility, but you can't just go around yelling at people that they're agents if they disagree with you in this. And to that confuse, contradict, and contain kind of thing. I think we do that to ourselves too. The community does. And I mean, if you were investing like 10 billion in disinformation for the UFO community over the past couple of years, you could probably reduce the budget to like 100,000 and be like, yeah, the community just chases their tail anyway. You know, this is a waste of money. We need to be more efficient. Yeah, I think it does it itself. Spot on. Erin talking about the Tic Tac situation. So a few folks bringing these up, obviously from the previous show. Weren't Tic Tacs seen back in the 1950s? If these are back engineered craft, is this evidence of Richard Dolan's breakaway civilization? Are there humans who have been living in a parallel world on Earth with advanced tech and God knows what else? Is this the big secret that they don't want revealed? Don't know what to believe. Just a thought. Yeah, really interesting. I love Stargate for this, right? So in Stargate, it gets to a point where after about seven or eight seasons of watching these people go through the Stargate, meeting other species and doing their thing, they get asked by other countries like, hey, what are you doing? What is this? And it's such a big thing for them to overcome to say, yeah, we had this and we didn't just like keep it secret from you. We've been exploiting this for our own gain so that we can, you know, strongly arm wrestle you on the global stage and we don't want it out. And it becomes a, you know, a point of contention, but I think it's absolutely true. At a certain point in Stargate, when I was watching that, I was like, well, they've now got things that make them invisible. They've got spaceships to take them XYZ to the rest of the world. This little department here with the Stargate is now a breakaway civilization. They do not have the same concerns as us. They don't see the world in the same way. All the problems that we face, they have solutions for that only they have access to and they can't share. And so it's a breakaway civilization. So I very much wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, even if it was, you know, just a small group of buildings with like 20 people in it. And they were just all so secret and outside the purview of government. But yeah, it's like Tom Zalong said, it's not a country. It's not a government. It's something else that is kind of in between those things. And that fits the, that fits the mold. Got a Stargate question for you. Shoot. Patrick Stewart or William Shatner? Who done it better? I'm joking folk. You had me there for a second. Yeah. I was about to be like, hold on a second. Nah, I know that was Star Wars. So yeah, with the whole breakaway civilization stuff, I think again, that goes down the route of one of those real realistic scenarios, but I don't know how it really plays out in my head. And I think it's a conversation for a different time around what, what does a breakaway civilization look like? Are we sort of Hank Scorpio Simpsons Island of there's a couple of really big tech guys who are almost like baddies, but maybe not who have this really cool tech who are, are isolated and they're doing stuff for whatever reasons, good and bad. Or are you looking at, they live underground and they've got this really cool technology. They can fly all over the planet. They're conducting all the wars. They are basically the shadow government. Or is it something else where something, something evolved before us or alongside us and is hidden. It's, I don't know. It's one of those ones I would need to talk through properly. I, I, I enjoyed the breakaway civilization conversation though. And I think in terms of a hypothesis, it's a very interesting one. I'll tell you what though, it's one that I wouldn't want to see brought up by a Gary Nolan on a Jordan Peterson podcast. Cause for me, it goes too far. Sure. Like that, in the same way, it's almost ruined if he's like, they stayed away from the, calm down. Yeah. They stayed away from all the abduction stuff as well. That was very much not on the agenda. And it was touched on very, very lightly, but yeah, they never went into it in big detail. I think it's like, you're just going to push people away. Yeah. A hundred percent. And we, we've definitely spoken about that before as well, how it's not necessarily a psyop, but the conversation is being rolled out in a way that doesn't scare people away because it's too much. I wonder how many people would switch off if, if Trump came on the white house lawn and just said, you know, reptilians are real. Uh, you know, all these different species are real. I wonder how many people would just be like, he's crazy versus taking him seriously. So Michael said in terms of the, the tech tack stuff, Dan, he says, I've always had a strong suspicion that, Lockheed was behind this one. I mean, it has tubes on it for crying out loud and it's 40 feet long, which would fit on a trailer or in a trailer. And don't forget, Stephen Greer was preaching this first. I'll let you take that one away first. I don't know how to answer it without just saying, I don't like Stephen Greer anymore. I mean, he, he wasn't preaching it first. He was one of the people that has been preaching it. And many people have, um, you know, we, we had like turbo, but we had, uh, John Greenwald back in the day, uh, project unity, you know, quite big platforms in UFO world. That all were speaking to this thing, maybe be in human tech. And if I remember rightly, even the guys like Jason Turner, Gary, he's everyone like that was like, it might be like, we, we truly don't know what it was. It was just so outside of our frame of reference that thinking of it as something more exotic makes more sense to us than going it's human tech. Uh, so yeah, it didn't, didn't really originate with Greer, I guess. Yeah. Um, what was the question again? Yeah. So, uh, I think the, the protrusions underneath the little bits have always been a bone of contention because I've heard that said they didn't have any little bits underneath. And then other folks have said they have had underneath. Um, it's funny how that seems to be a very like human characteristic, attached to it or human technology that, well, why would it need these? Well, why wouldn't it have something else? Because we don't know what it's for. You're surmising what it might be for. Um, as if it's some kind of antenna or sensor or, but perhaps that, that is what it is and it needs it. Like, so I've never quite understood why that makes it human or not. Um, less is more. I think, I think people, because they said that they only saw it, the two little things on the video after the fact, Alex and, and, Dave and the other people that were with them, uh, didn't see the two little legs on the tic-tac. It was when, uh, Chad Underwood came back with a video that they saw these two little legs. So maybe it was facing away from Alex and Dave when that was happening. I, I don't know. Um, people, I think, think of it as a human trait because on planes, we have similar things, but they're called, uh, I might mess up the pronunciation, but, uh, they're pitot tubes, which kind of measure ear speed and air temperature and stuff like that outside the craft. It would make sense for any craft to have something that would measure the conditions outside the craft. You know, if it was an alien, they'd land down and be like, can I breathe the air here? Can I walk you without melting? Um, so it might not be a sign that it's human tech. It might just be a logical thing to have on a craft that you're flying around. Like when people see a saucer with windows and they go, well, why it's got windows? It's nonsense. Why would it have windows? And why wouldn't it have something like a window or assuming it's a window? Yeah. Whatever's in there needs to, or wants to see out. So yeah. Um, so yeah, interesting. Uh, Cameron talking about the, uh, the whole, this being human technology. So numerous cans of worms here. It also plays nicely into the, they are us from the future hypothesis. Doesn't this initially explain only one encounter though? Is it possible that Roswell was mid 21st century crash time travel experiment gone wrong? Is it possible that the Phoenix lights was a scooped Lockheed Martin experiment, a scoped Lockheed Martin experiment to expand size and functionality? All and many, many more are possible. At some point, we're going to have to return to the beginning of this phenomenon's inception, the patient zero of how and where it truly all began. Hopefully we don't get caught up in a Star Trek like paradox with Scotty and the transparent aluminium scene in Star Trek 4, A Voyage Home. Really? I just want this stuff ticked off. So we just, we know how to think about it, how to examine it and ultimately what part it plays in the world of the phenomenon. Do you know what? I think that that part at the end there, Cameron, around how to think about it is what a lot of folks struggle with because we frame it in such a human way, don't we? Yeah, that's all we can frame it in, right? That's our reference point is the whole planet. It's the same when scientists look out to the stars, like we're looking from the known to the unknown. And the only thing we know is humans, how we may impact the environment, what technology we have, what we can do, what we can think. If it's something stranger that is just outside the realm of our understanding, then we're just never going to understand it ever. And I think people struggle to really grasp that. Yeah. David made a point. I appreciated this one, David. I always do. I don't get why this changes anything. And he was talking about the, again, this whole conversation with Ross's comments. I don't get why it changes anything or why we all need to loudly chase our tails about it. Let's get back to finding out more and getting data. And that's a very fair camp. A lot of folks fall into that one, Dan. Yeah. Yeah. Do you see a respect there? Yeah. Yeah. That's a fair position, I think. And he added just at the end, I also hate that specky Dan that comes on. So yeah. I'm going to take my witch specky Dan. Yeah. It's hypnoglossies like Superman has. Sorry, spoilers. They are. Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't want to tell anyone, but yeah, that is what, yeah. Unidentified, who always gives an alternative point of view, and not in a bad way, said, Lockheed is a more plausible explanation than aliens, obviously. If it's proven, then the UAP topic is over. Until such time, it's definitely proven it was back engineered from NHI tech, or it's definitely proven that NHI exists. I disagree unidentified that the UAP topic would be over. And I think this was in some of the comments as well, after the back of this one, Dan, but to say that one object being debunked or proven to be human tech. So if we're even just going to totally go with, yeah, we have somehow broken the laws of physics as we know them, whatever it may be, it was human tech completely, not back engineered. That doesn't explain, even just for me personally, the object I saw in the nineties, you know, so for me, nothing, nothing changes there other than little bit of disappointment. But I think I've said from, from day zero with this whole topic, I'm always prepared to be kind of let down, Dan, by anything, anyone, any story. But I think a lot of folks, when you've had your own experience or own sighting or your own opinion, one piece of evidence like that doesn't, you know, the whole pack of cards doesn't fall down. Yeah, I completely agree. You know, I spoke about Occam's razor earlier. And if we apply that to the tic-tac, it is more likely that the tic-tac is a conventional human craft that is just super advanced. But there's a bunch of things that we, we have to kind of ignore in evidence for that non-assumption to be made. And that is the testimony of Dave Fravor, of Alex Dietrich, of Chad Underwood, of all the people that were there. You know, Mick West is where people usually go for these kind of skeptical kind of takes. And Mick made a simulator and he tracked these objects and made a simulator of, you know, the tic-tac movements and stuff like that. Did the same with gimbal and things like that. And in multiple simulations, he's found that only two tracks apply. One track saying that it was a faraway plane and another track saying that, in fact, it was exactly matched what the pilot said and the testimony the pilots gave. And it was anomalous where you fall, whether you decide to follow Mick's word or follow, you know, the word of the pilots and it being anomalous is, is, is up to you, you know, both, both are possible. I would agree that it does kind of damage the subject for casual people that aren't in this all the time. You know, you and I, we've had our own experiences. People out there have had their own experiences that are beyond a doubt, just something weird to us. And the tic-tac being shown that it's Lockheed or something, wouldn't, wouldn't touch the sides on that. Um, and nor do I think it should, because it is one thing, but since 2017, the hat of this conversation has been put on the, you know, the tic-tac is anomalous rack. Um, and so if the tic-tac turns out not to be anomalous, I, I think a lot of this goes quieter, uh, quieter than it is now. I, I don't know. Cause you know, Dave Fravor didn't just talk about the tic-tac in Congress, did he? There was so many other things. Yeah. I think I said pack of cards, Dan, before a house of cards, but more like Jenga, I think where you're probably removing a block that makes things a little bit wobbly. It doesn't collapse the tower though. Um, for me in any way, shape or form. And even then it's still, if that was the case where the tic-tac was human technology, are they then going to come out and show us a tic-tac and go, okay, here's, here's what it is. Cool. Show us this tech. What's it do? Wow. That goes fast. That's how, how do you do that? As someone from, how'd you do it? As a drone. So this seems to be a lot more advanced than a few generations down the line of a, an F 37 or 38 or, you know, you've got an F 18,000 here. So what's, what's happened that you've bridged that gap? And I think it just opens up a lot of questions that they maybe wouldn't want to get into either way. Legacy Brew Pub Dan made a point that I don't really care what the U S government has to say. And this goes to my point earlier where some folks don't always want to hear about government. They seem to not want to be truthful. I'm not sure why we're giving them the time of day. Having said that, should the conversation be shifting away from what, what the U S military officials say to what private citizens and what experiencers think? I think all those camps exist independently anyway. I think the big focus and spotlight on the government side of things is just when you've got congressional hearings and whistleblowers coming forward, it's such a tangible thing. You know, it's, I don't know. I think it's like saying you can, you can take 10 grand over here with the experiencers and the private citizens, the nightcrawler, the Tedesco brothers, you know, take, take 10 grand, or do you want to come over here and have a one in 10 shot of a hundred million? Like what, what do you want to go with? Like, do you take the chance of something bigger and more profound, something that's going to impact the public more? Um, again, if I go to the public, I'll, I'll give you an example. I love what the Tedesco brothers have with nightcrawler with that piece of equipment, with that truck. I think the work they've done in their own money going into it is phenomenal. I would love a day out and that truck and the investigations and seeing how they do what they do. However, do the public want to hear from a whistleblower on Joe Rogan, like David Grush, or do they want to hear from, again, no, no slight at all, the Tedesco's. Do they want to hear from them? The public are going to say the whistleblower because of the more sensational nature of what they're doing. Um, all those camps, though, the good thing is though, you don't have to pick, you don't have to choose. People know I like my wrestling analogies, Dan. There's, there's multiple wrestling companies people can watch just now. You've got WWE, which is the big one. You've got AEW, which is the second big one. And then you've got TNA, NXT, Ring of Honor, and a whole load of indies. So you've got something for everyone anyway. You don't have to just follow one, but you also, if you're following one, don't have to shit on all the others right now because you don't know what's going to be the big one in a couple of years time. Yeah, completely agree with you. Don't, don't have much to add there. I'm just with you. And for any wrestling fans that wouldn't be AEW, I'm sorry. Um, as much as I want. I have got a few messages from people since our last episode recommending certain people for certain roles in, in the wrestling hall of fame. So I guess it's becoming a thing. So yeah, like let us know who you think should be who in wrestling. Like who should Lou Elizondo be in the wrestling ring? Who should Gary Nolan be? And so on and so forth. Or should Gary Nolan just start doing wrestling? Keep that for bonus content, right? Just so no one gets up, right? Um, uh, Alan said, and we've kind of answered this first part. He wanted a Nazca mummy update. We've kind of chatted, but he says, who's been getting involved and why? And where's the best people and places to follow. Um, for me, if I just have a quick look on X or Twitter, which is the best place, you've got, um, at Nazca mummies as an official account. Um, you've got Josh McDowell of Pike's Peak Law, who's one of the lawyers involved in that whole situation. Um, you've got in cred history, who was involved in going along as well. Uh, you've got a Gonzalo Chavez. Again, many of these folks I follow. You can go and check these out. They've all got multiple updates. If you just, I would go on X and search Nazca mummies and you will see a lot of decent accounts, uh, to follow. Um, and they're all like, well, I think you covered them there, but I would just add that the ones that you covered, you know, um, they run the gamut from skeptical to full on believers in the moment. So like you say, always look at all of those and make your mind up, um, and see where you fall. Uh, but yeah, some, some of those that Andy mentioned are really true believers and some of them are really like, there's nothing here to see. Uh, but look at the whole gamut. Do, do the search like Andy said, and you'll get a good idea of where we're at. Last couple of questions, Dan. Um, so Theo, I've shortened this one a little bit, mate. So I hope it reads. Okay. Um, Dan take notes over the past few years. I've come to see reality as fundamentally consciousness based. It's the only framework that truly makes sense of the wide range of phenomena we observe and experience. The more I explore the data, the more it highlights the limitations of our current scientific paradigm. I've noticed many researchers who start with a nuts and bolts approach, gradually moving toward a similar conclusion. It feels like there's a growing consensus forming around this shift. Would you and or Dan say you've gone through a similar evolution and you're thinking, have your views shifted from a more materialist perspective towards something closer to the ideas of a Bernardo Castro or Diana Walsh-Basulka? And personally, how has this shift affected your day-to-day life and relationships, especially in the context of the often chaotic world we live in? Great question. Uh, yeah. It was longer. It was bigger. Oh, is it? Yeah. Um, yeah, definitely for me, I've gone from a place of nuts and bolts to the consciousness stuff, um, to the point where, you know, I visited Belaskan house. I, I kind of performed rites and ceremonies in an effort to kind of see what that's about myself and have that personal experience. Um, you know, that includes ayahuasca ceremonies, multiple occasions and things like that. And the more I kind of done that, the more amenable to, to that kind of thinking I become, that everything's consciousness and that we, you know, we're all one person just having different experiences to inform a greater whole for whatever reason. Um, in terms of how it affects me every day, uh, I, I try and look at everything as, as some level as conscious. I think, uh, you know, certainly animals, like I've always loved animals and I've always loved dogs, but now I just have conversations with dogs, with dogs and, you know, that around Elena and I have a dog, but with other animals too. And I'll just talk to them like they're people. And I, I feel comfortable doing that. I feel like I get responses from that. It's not scientific in any way, but it certainly changed how I approach the world. Even when I'm talking with someone, for example, that disagrees with me politically, I'll always try and kind of think, okay, we're one and the same. If I had your experience, how would I be feeling? I'd probably think exactly what you think, right? Like how, how can we bridge this gap and find the middle? So yeah, it makes me a bit more careful, uh, grant people grace. Um, and yeah, it's, it's really changed things a lot. Uh, spent a lot more time stargazing after that, thinking about the universe, thinking if it's conscious, is it thinking of me, you know, that kind of stuff. Sounds like I'm just smoking, walking on beaches now, like just getting high. Um, but it does lead you down these kinds of roads and to things that are essentially, some people might see as Buddhism and things like that. But I am always careful to think, you know, is the reason I think and feel this way because the nuts and bolts stuff got me nowhere with this subject and trying to figure it out that this is the only place it can fit for me. This is the gap that I can put it into. That doesn't necessarily make it right. It just makes it, you know, my experience. And, and I think I've got to be aware of whether I'm shoving it in that gap where it doesn't really fit. Um, or, or whether, um, you know, this is actually how things are. Uh, I always support people exploring and, and getting out of their comfort zone, whether you think the universe is conscious fundamentally or not. Uh, I would say explore it, see, see how it feels for you. You know, I was a big nuts and bolts guy until ocean gate. Um, and I saw how that can go wrong for people. Um, uh, so no, um, but continuity for folks there. Um, I, I suppose my, my very condensed journey was grown up as a kid. Aliens come from different planets and big spacecraft here. Um, I had my sighting in the nineties, mid nineties with the big ferris wheel type object. Um, whatever happens in UFOs, if Louis Elizondo, Ross Coulter, Gary Nolan, Stephen Greer all walked out on a stage and went, thank you folks. All been a big psyop. We've fooled you all. Whole cast of characters. Everyone came out to disappoint. It wouldn't stop me believing that there was a non-human intelligence, something going on because of my experience. And I think that would be the same for a lot of different folks. Um, frustrating or annoyed as we would be. Um, I think then getting to the point of doing the podcast, it shifted a bit, but I think it's still more of that umbrella idea that I think there's some stuff that comes here from far away, whether that has pilots, which are AI or biological AI, whatever that might look like the little grays. Um, I don't know. Um, I still think realistically, I think it's got really mucky in my head where even to the point of like big foot ghosts, I don't talk about that stuff on here, but there probably is some kind of connection to a lot of that real weirdness that goes on. Um, and as that whole paranormal world connected in, in all these different ways, shapes and form, because reality is this thing we don't quite understand. And it's a little bit like you are in some kind of simulation where some folks in the simulation have access to the back doors and a little bit like, again, we talked about the matrix earlier, you know, you've got the, the key master dude who can go through and open the doors and they're literally unlocking back doors. Merovingian. Yeah. Not the Merovingian. You know, the, the, no, he was, yeah, I know who you mean. Yeah. He's literally got all the keys and he's opening doors and he can go through to a different place on the planet and stuff. So something akin to that, I'm sure it was the key, the key master, or I'm maybe confusing. The key maker. The key maker. Yeah. The key maker. That was it. Yeah. And he was being held captive by the Merovingian. Yes. That's the one. So you've got entities who have access to this reality and can access the back doors of this reality, um, in different ways, shapes and forms. So umbrella phenomenon day to day life, it's not really affected me. And it's something I can, I can do, I think in a handle quite well where I can, I don't need to take a big break from this topic because I can go, I don't have much of a choice having young children though, where I've got a life to live and a job to do. And I try and manage my world around that. And then, yeah, the subject just bleeds into it in a lot of different ways. So, but I get it. I get folks can get so invested. I think I, I generally have sometimes where I'll go multiple days with no UFO topic in my head, no thoughts like this weekend, I'm going to see Oasis. Or if you're listening to this on the free feeds, you're probably listening to when I'm come back from Oasis, I will spend my Sunday and Monday traveling. I will listen to podcasts that aren't UFO related. I'll enjoy my Sunday. That's it. So yeah. Yeah. I think you've got to balance these things, but everyone's different. I get it though. But that's my really jumbled again answer of where I'm at with the UFO topic. But I totally get where it's nuts and bolts. It's consciousness. A lot of experiencers are having genuine experiences. Some of the government people are trying to get the truth out. Some aren't. It's all of the above and some of the above. What, what do you think of things like synchronicities? I don't think we've ever spoken about this. You know, people have those weird coincidences. I have far too many. You know, what do you think of them? Do you think it's a weird thing? Yeah. Right. Something Gary Nolan talks about with Peterson. They go into the whole cadet epitamin stuff and the basal ganglia. They go into all that. So yeah. So from an intuition, I think intuition synchronicities, I've been very good in my life at, you know, just knowing stuff or something happens or, you know, when you're driving and you're thinking about one thing and the license plate in front of you says UFO. So random stuff, even intuition wise. Remember one day, my stepson years ago now had had his football taken off and by some local dickheads. And we went looking for it. There's a huge part. I mean, a massive area. There was no reason. And I walked under like a little tunnel connecting the park to our estate. And there was just piles of leaves. And I mean, all over the place. And I just walked up to one and kicked the pile and his ball came out. That's pile. There was no way. And do you know what? Is that just pure luck? Maybe, probably, but you know where you just go, huh? Kick. And I wasn't going to go kick all those other piles of leaves. I just stood and went, Hmm. And kicked this big pile and the ball came out. So all those little things, same with radio station saying to Susan, Oh, I love this song. I've not heard. This song reminds me of this one. I've not heard for years. And then that one comes on. Sure. I'll ask her something stupid. Like, Oh, do you remember Be Witch second single? And it comes on the radio. Sure. Stupid stuff like that. And I think there's too much for it to all be coincidence. I think I call that kind of stuff like quiet weirdness. Cause it's, it's quiet. It's in the moment. It's for you. And you don't necessarily always remember these moments as well. Like if you wrote them down, you'd have a book full of them, but really only a handful stand out. Um, and, and so that kind of stuff always gets me to thinking of like, you know, you, you talk about back doors and in a more practical sense, you know, I think I've said before, we, we live in three dimensions of space. One, one of time. So we are four dimensional beings. If something is out there that lives in three dimensions of time and one of space, we might not even see them. And we're existing in the same space. There are completely reasonable ways how these kinds of back doors and layers to reality could work. Um, but we're just not there yet. We're starting to get there. You know, we were doing all these research, this research with DMT and MDMA and people in therapy, and we're seeing how it affects the brain and understanding how our perception of time changes, but we're not quite a place where we say, Hey, everything is conscious and it's just levels of awareness. You know, a rock has less awareness than a dog, but you have more awareness than a dog, for example. Um, and it could be layers of time to that too. We only experience that every day because we have one moment after the next going forward. Something could exist going backwards and they would have a weird like experience to us where they would have the emotion before the thing happened. Right. Um, but there's no reason why not. And I think that's the stuff we're going to get to. Yeah. Three more questions, Dan. Uh, Shelly asked, uh, could the oldest Nazca mummies be real and the rest attribute to them by the native peoples? I have seen some interesting evidence that there were older civilizations in that area and towards the Polynesian islands. Well, before the current scientists have accepted, I believe there was an Atlantis way back then to maybe so advanced. They are orbs. They are, their orbs are coming in and out of the water. Fun to think about. You'll love a bit of that civilization type stuff. Yeah. Super fun to think about. And, and when you go back and you look at, you know, not even in the UFO kind of sphere, just looking in the anthropology sphere, you find, you come across a hominid known as Homo floriensis. That was just a mini human, you know, and they were around and they were rumored for ages and no one saw them. And now they're matter of fact. We have found remains. We know that they existed. And so is it really a far stretch for a very small hominid to be found in South America? Not really. But all the UFO law coming along with it, that's an extra kind of thing on top of it. So this is what we're getting at, right? When we say that they should be studied properly and presented in the proper places so that we can see that there's something different from something like Homo floriensis. And you know, why, why are they anomalous? Is it just the three fingers? Is it just a bit of metal on the chest that people are like, well, they must be aliens then. Is that enough for scientists to say that? Or could it just be like a weird practice of a very small local tribe that had access to that metal? Don't know, but that's the work that needs to be done. The only thing I could think of there when you said about like a really small hominid was that Homo Dinklage should have been the name and have not gone with that. Because he has that whole market sewn up in an incredibly monopolized way. I think it was found a little bit before him. I actually don't know. Let me, let me find it. Were you joking? 2003. I thought you were making a joke when you said a little bit before him. That's, I wasn't. No, it was discovered in 2003 on the island of Flores, Indonesia. Very quickly though, Dan, because I do want to answer Shelly's question a little bit here. Where are you at with the Nazca mummies right now? Still? Has anything changed for you? I'm still middle of the road. Nothing's changed. There's nothing that's called me towards. Love for them to be genuine. Maybe, maybe there's something to some of them, but it does seem to be they're managing to find loads of them. But then we hear rumors that there is a whole cave of these things. Yeah. We don't, we've heard about the cave. We've heard about more. We've heard about different artifacts that were found with them that turn out to be completely fake. And so it just, it muddies the waters around all of this. There could be one that was found at the beginning that is genuine and the rest are just crap that are coming in. Like this boosphere thing, right? Someone jumping on it. The coins. But also it could just be, and I say just, it could just be that we're finding a small hominid civilization in South America. And that's not unusual. You know, like we know that small hominids existed before, but it's the alien stuff that comes along with it that people are like, don't know what to make heads or tails of. And there's no proof either way of that being real or fake. And that's the work that they have to do. Algo says, it seems like what Congress is really fighting for isn't disclosure with a capital D, but rather government control over NHI technology. Prioritizing national interest and ensuring stovepiping doesn't hinder scientific or technological progress. The real question may be, is secrecy helping or hurting the U.S. in this race for tech dominance? Meanwhile, the public remains spectators locked out of the stadium, trying to make sense of what's happening based on the cheers or boos we hear. Would you agree with that framing? I like that. I would agree with the framing. And I'd go further and say like when we, what were the phrases we were debating a while back in the community? Catastrophic versus controlled disclosure. Controlled is exactly what Algo is saying here. It's we want control of this. We want control of the narrative. We want control of the tech because we don't trust anyone else. And we're going to use it for whatever we want to use it for. You okay with that? Cool. If you're not, catastrophic is the way that you want to go. Yeah. So, yeah, I agree with the framing. I like the analogy. Again, it's like at what level though? So again, do your congressmen and women find out about this technology? Would they not then drop the whole UFO thing? Do they still stay involved? Like, or do they even get, I don't think a Burleson, a Luna, a Burchett, a Warner, a Rubio, a Rubio may be different. Rubio moved up, didn't he? I don't think they get to find out about that kind of stuff. Probably not. So again, for me, it would be that, for me, it'd be higher, much higher than Congress. Again, are the Air Force and the DOE allowing anyone in the Senate or Congress or the Senate outside of the Gang of Eight type folks access to that kind of knowledge? Like, I don't think so. And anyone that they see as a temporary employee of the US government that's going to switch out in four years, maybe after an election, or just, you know, moves on after a little while, they would not be given access to this. This would be the person with careers that have been doing it for 50 years, never going to do another thing in their lives. This is their bag. Yeah. Final question from Unidentified. And I like this one. Assuming there is something to disclose, which is helpful. China won't disclose. The CPC has too much to lose. Russia won't disclose. Putin is chasing a different kind of legacy. America won't disclose. Existential, financial, and social risk. Trump might like the glory, but even he will think twice about the consequences. Andy, Dan, who will disclose? And I don't think he's asking Andy or Dan, which one of you will. I think he's asking, you know, who do we think will? No, I know, you know, you speak to all these people. Disclose, Andy. Disclose. I don't know. I've always said, you know, I love these government efforts. We're trying to get this stuff out. I think the chance of it happening is very slim. And the control for disclosure relies entirely with them. Whoever they are, they can control our minds. They can control time. It seems like it's on them. For all we know, something already tried to, someone already tried to disclose and they control time and just made it not a thing on this timeline. So yeah, the controls entirely with the visitors, the interlopers, whoever they are, unless they come forward and say, here we are, this is what we are, this is what we're here for. We're going to be guessing for a long time. I still think realistically, one of two things. One, I'm going to go with my tried and tested voting. I believe we'll still get a more scientific disclosure over the course of years. I think the James Webb, all that kind of stuff are going to find technical signatures, biosignatures of whatever. I think it's going to go down that route, which then opens up the, what might be closer to home? What could be here? Do you then get at some point, not too far away, more and more private citizens, rich ones to be fair, are going to be able to send their own drones into space. And if you can get folks to send a drone to the moon, I don't think we're honestly that far away from even commercially being able to buy something that you could get up into space for whatever reason and control it. Even imagine like a private company going, so like imagine like another Elon Musk comes along and builds a rocket and goes, I have put 200 drones in space, Dan, and for a thousand dollars, you can rent a drone that is on the moon right now, and you can fly it around the moon. That'd be really cool, actually. Do you know what I mean? Stuff like that. That's a really cool idea, and I literally just thought of that off the top of my head. But you could then fly about the moon and see stuff, and then shit, what's that? So I don't think we're far away from that kind of stuff happening in more commercial space tourism. Musk is doing that kind of stuff with the SpaceX rockets and everything like that as well, the reusable side of things. So either we get that scientific stuff or we get like an accidental type disclosure where big sighting happens or crash of something that forces them to disclose. I don't think we're going to get Trump panicking, like some people suggest, and I honestly couldn't see Trump worrying about the Epstein stuff and going, oh, aliens. I mean, it'd be a great way to do it, but I just don't think we're going to get that. No, I don't think the tracks are there for that. Definitely interesting about the, you know, access to technology and getting into space. The only thing I'd say to that is apparently these visitors can sense when they're being watched. So even if that scenario did occur, I would have my like little, you know, thread in the needle. I could say they wanted that to happen. And so it's their control, right? Is it on the other entities or one of the entities to disclose? What would, what again, Dan, we've been talking nearly three hours now and it's two hours of recording. But this is for another time. But what's to even stop? Imagine we've got one or two entities who have been here a long time, who kind of run things, who are in charge of things, all that kind of stuff. We've got some who are more fleeting, who visit now and again. And what if there was a one-off event where something from somewhere else, a different time, a different reality, different dimension, different planet, just happened to stop by here. What if for 10 seconds, one day above the slum in Johannesburg, a huge weird shaped UFO we have never seen the likes of before appears for a few seconds on camera and goes, and that's it. And it's like, oh shit, like an Oumuamua, but it's there in our atmosphere. What if we literally see something and that's it? Yeah. You remind me of that BBC documentary they did a few years back where it was, I think the scenario was that there was a, something in the sky, similar to Oumuamua. You know, we saw it, we analyzed it, we knew it was advanced tech from somewhere else. No one was on board. They were all dead. It was defunct. It was old. So we knew we're not alone, but actually there's nothing to change the day-to-day of citizens of Earth, right? You just know you're not alone and that's it. No one's come. That's it. You just got to live with it now. I think something like that is probably a good, I guess, disclosure scenario, like soft disclosure, I would say, because it just confirms we're not alone and that's what we all want, right? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of interesting points. Dan, been wonderful chatting. I am going to potentially split this up and even to three parts. So it covers a couple of days early next week, folks, because it's been a long one and my voice might not be great for a couple of days early next week. I've got interviews lined up for later in the week. Got a couple on crop circles, a couple of scientists lined up as well. I'll get those announced properly online. And yeah, after that, I've got some other, I suppose you could say, bigger name guests scheduled in for August and further afield. But confirm those nearer the time as well. But obviously, Dan, good to have you back on again. Lovely to be back on. I do have one question for people that I kind of want to, I'm not going to give my answer now. We can talk about it next time. But I just want to know if people could have like a UFO dinner party with four UFO personalities, alive or dead, who would they be? Let us know and say why as well you're choosing these people. Hopefully, we'll turn a few folk on to people they haven't heard of. Absolutely. Nice way to frame it as well. Don't be setting folks up here to, you're going to invite four people and blow up the room in glorious bastard style or anything like that. Not allowed to do that. It's a dinner party. Everyone, it's a nice conversation. Yes. But yes, once again, folks, thank you so much for listening. Thank you if you've pre-ordered the book just to get one more plug of that and still available now. Go check it out. Links in the description for signed copies as well and speak to you all very soon. That is all for this episode. Thank you very much for tuning in. Don't forget to leave the podcast a review on your chosen platform. Apple and Spotify do make a huge difference to the algorithm. If you're checking the show on YouTube, please don't forget to like and leave a comment on here as well. Any sharing you do is very much appreciated on any social media platform. And finally, you can listen to shows ad-free and sponsor-free in their glorious full versions by subscribing for less than the price of a coffee on Apple, Spotify, just search That UFO Podcast Premium, YouTube, you can sign up and be a member or you can do that through Patreon.com. Thank you very much for listening, folks.