Breakdown: Tic-Tac, Alien or Human tech?

Hi, this is Grant Cameron, and you're listening to That UFO Podcast. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. My name is Andy, and joining me for a look at some news this week for a bit of a breakdown fresh off of a secondment at Lockheed Martin working on some tic-tac technologies. I've got Dan joining me for the first time in a while. Dan, welcome back. Hey, it's good to be back, and yeah, lots to talk about. It's been a little while, and I'm sorry that I've been absent. I got some of that anti-gravity goop on my boot, and I was just stuck in the... You know when a balloon gets stuck up in the rafters? I've just been like that for a month, so... But I got down. Chinese spibling? Yeah. Yeah, good timing, because we were going to do this last week. I had a bit of a nightmare that day, and then the best timing for yourself and myself was today, and a lot's happened since then, which has probably changed a lot of the chatter, so probably less notes than normal for this show, but a lot to go through. There's a really big talking point. Some random stuff we'll go over. I've got some questions if we get to those, and a few things I want to chat about, given we're past that halfway point in the year. I always like to look at where we've been and where we may be going. But, Dan, will we kick off with the big news then to start off with? The tic-tac seems so long ago, doesn't it, as a piece of news and a talking point. 2004, you know, this whole event that came to light in 2017 properly. Idiots like us spoke about it in 2020. It was like this launching pad for all these other conversations that have happened over five years. And it kind of took a back seat, hasn't it, for a long time that, I suppose, what more could you say about it? What more could you look into? So there's not more witnesses coming forward. Unless we got the data that was allegedly taken, what more can you say? And then enter Ross Coulter, who, I don't, do you know what? I don't know why it's become such a big thing, really. I could go back and forward on it, I suppose. But if people haven't heard, Ross Coulter on with Bryce Sable in their latest Need to Know episode came out with a couple of big statements. The main one being that he says he believes and actually believes is the wrong word. I don't know if you've got the exact wording, Dan, but... I do, yeah. Yeah. Do you want to just confirm the wording? Yeah, sure. He says, I now know categorically that the Tic Tac is Lockheed Martin technology. What's the English accent for? That was my best Australian. Australian is really hard to do. Is it still a penal colony, the English sending people to Australia still? That's what happened. No, I think we stopped that a couple of months ago. I'm good with my accents, but even I find Australians hard to do. Yeah. Oh, no, no. That Tic Tac is Lockheed Martin technology. No, that just sounds English. See, you did the same. But serious news, though. This has really got people talking. Yeah, really got people talking, Dan. It's been, it's really blown up. I think partly because it's Ross Coulter, he's a big name. He's a name that gets a lot of people's attention. This seemed to take Bryce Sable back a little bit on the podcast as well. The thing to go with here is we don't know why or how Ross knows this. And this is, I suppose, has been the big talking point. What's your take on this? Because for me, he's not necessarily said anything. Well, no, he hasn't said anything that other folks haven't surmised, assumed, presumed, whatever you want to say about the Tic Tac. We've heard everything from it was aliens to non-human intelligence to interdimensional beings. I think I've always kind of went with the non-human drone thing, which made some sense to me. And then Ross has come out and basically said, yeah, it's Lockheed Martin technology, Lockheed Martin folks for being a private aerospace company contractor that make the really cool gadgets and tech for people like the US Army and stuff like that. And he's just come out and said, basically, as far as he knows now, the Tic Tac was human tech. It was ours, quote unquote. So that just seems to have set the community afire. Yeah. And when you look online, the clips that you see is just of Ross saying this. You know, he says that I now know categorically in the clip cuts. But if you actually listen to the context of what Ross is talking about, he's not saying that it's not derived from non-human technology or an exotic thing that Lockheed found. He's just saying that they are working on, he says, two projects, and the Tic Tac is one of two, to try and replicate it. Was the Tic Tac that day Lockheed? Maybe, maybe not. David Fravor now works for Lockheed, right? And he said that he doesn't think that it's Lockheed. Originally, he was quite open to the idea of it being, you know, just man-made tech. He hasn't said that he thinks it's aliens, but he said that he doesn't know what it is. We also have arrows saying they don't know what it is. So if it's Lockheed, you're kind of wondering, like, well, what access do you have? How much work have you actually done to kind of try and figure this out? Even though, you know, it's outside government, this would be the kind of thing that, if Lockheed has that, and say the UAP Disclosure Act passes with eminent domain intact, someone from the U.S. government could go take the Tic Tac off Lockheed. That's the idea, I guess. There was a little bit in the conversation where Ross also suggests that people are playing disinformation agents. And when I got to the bit where he kind of said this categorically, not only was I kind of left going, okay, well, what are your sources to which Bryce did ask that, and Ross said, I can't go there. I want to see, you know, the working schematics for this thing, you know, Model 1, Model 2, Model 3, how they got there, you know, a bit more development. Because there are so many different reasons that Lockheed would want to claim that as theirs and look really good, get more contracts, you know, kind of put adversaries off, kind of making a move if they think they've got that. But then, at the same time, it could just be something unknown that Lockheed's claiming is theirs, or maybe they've derived some things from that Tic Tac encounter that they've incorporated into technology. And now through a game of telephone, which, as we were talking about before this show, happens all the time with UFO cases, maybe Lockheed has derived technology from the Tic Tac, has become Lockheed has a Tic Tac of their own. So, it doesn't necessarily contradict the narrative that's been out since 2017, but it certainly kind of stirs the muddy water, you know? Can I take you back to November 2004, Dan? Let's do it. I was on the Nimitz. Yeah, you were on the Nimitz. I was, what would I have been, 18? Yeah, God, that seems so long ago, 18. So, Nimitz-Princeton event, and God, I could probably get some of this wrong, but they are on training exercises off the coast of California, and there's the Nimitz-Princeton, again, there's folk listening to this that are kind of newer, very quickly. It's like nuclear fleet, you know, nuclear powered or whatever that is, how that shit works. And they've got all these fighter jets and personnel and all these different carriers, and they're doing, like, their practice, their training exercises, essentially. And on the radar, they see these little blips, doot, doot, doot, doot, doot. I always forget, was it Gary Verhees? Was it Kevin Day that was the first one who was, like, yeah? Kevin Day, because he was on the radar. So he was seeing these blips for, like, a week before, you know, what happened happened that we talk about. But yeah, carry on. I don't want to take thunder. Yeah, and some of these guys basically are told, you know, clean the machines. Not physically clean them, but they take them down, reset them, make sure everything's working okay. Turn it on and off again for the old tech heads. Basically. And the signals look better. They look clearer. And they're told, just ignore it. Again, these things are there for quite a while. So I think a lot of folks maybe newer to the subject or the general public would believe the Tic Tac was a one-off event where this thing was, one of these was seen one day, is probably the general consensus if you ask folk who know a little bit about it. This was over weeks, and there were a lot of these things showing up on radar. So this is a big bone of contention with this for me. So let's go with its Lockheed Martin technology. They had lots of them there at this time then. Would that be the assumption? Yeah. If we're saying this is categorically Lockheed, then Lockheed has, for a week or more, tested this fleet on the Princeton and the Nimitz and the crews there. Yeah, because they were saying it was raining Tic Tacs on the radar where these things are dropping from 80,000 feet to just above the sea level in less than two seconds. If we were inside there, we would be mush. We would be Ocean Gate billionaires inside these Tic Tacs. Oh, that was dark. Too soon? I don't know. No, I've watched the documentary. It's not too soon. Oh, okay. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a prick. That's fine, man. And they would have known nothing about it. Literally, they would have been vaporized into pink mist before they even... Yeah, so, yeah. In like a second. Go watch the documentary, by the way. The guy, not saying anyone deserves that kind of ending, right? But if anyone did, the Ocean Gate owner might be up there for the forerunner. But anyway, so... They'd be crushed to hear your review. You know, absolutely would be. Yeah, so... And they were inside a kind of Tic Tacs shaped thing as well. But anyway, this one worked. So it was... These were dropping down at incredible speeds from a great height to just above the ocean. They were hovering there for sometimes 12, 14 hours at a time. We know then that, you know, Dave Fravor had the incident where he engaged with one of them. It came up to meet him. It then went... Shot off to the cap point. So there's still... I see loads of people having that same conversation online. And I've said this so many times. And I must have looked it up in the past, Dan. But the cap point was just a random plot point out at sea. They use like a map to work out. We're going to meet here. So if I said to you, oh, we're going to meet at King's Cross Station. It would be King's Cross Station, but out at sea where there's nothing to mark. So it's like a latitude and longitude point. Yeah, something like that. So, you know... Yeah, exactly. If anything goes wrong, meet here. Yeah. You know, if you've got your kids in a theme park and you say, meet us at the ice cream stand. If anything goes wrong, that's our home base. That's the ice cream stand. So they're going to meet there. The tic-tac turns up at this point. There's a lot of conjecture here where people really double down on... It must have been alien because it read their minds and knew the cap point. But I believe that point had been used over and over and over again during those training exercises. So there's nothing to say that it wasn't a learned behavior or an observation where it just went there to say, well, we know you go here or we know this point, we know this location. It performed incredible speeds that took off. There seemed to be no signs of propulsion. 40-foot-long tic-tac. But there was loads of them. So why would Lockheed be testing so many of them? I could... Do you know what? If it's Lockheed, again, we're going to go with this for now, I could see them testing one because there's an element of, excuse me, while the motorbike was buying the background, folks. Not my motorbike. I don't have one. But the thing that proper put me off. They're testing if something goes wrong with one of these tic-tacs, that's easy to cover up. You go out there, the people watching it, operating it, go out and they speak to higher-ups. And yeah, it's secret DS technology. Let's clear this up. Don't talk about it. NDAs, all that stuff. 20, 30, 40, 50 of these objects, though, that just doesn't make any sense to me for like a real top secret. And what is it called when you test on your own? Is it blue? Blue on blue. Blue on blue? Blue on blue is friendly. Blue on red is like an opposition. Yeah, smurf on smurf. So blue on blue. Don't type that into Google. Smurf on smurf, yeah. A bit of blue on blue. So yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me as to why there'd be so many. So for so long out there, can you help me make any sense of why that would be? I really can't because I completely wholeheartedly agree with you. They have these secure testing ranges. You know, as we've seen with Skywatcher, they were able to go onto a range and kind of rent a bit of space and use that space. But in all of the videos, they've always said, you know, there are other objects being tested in these spaces. So we've got to kind of de-conflict against those when we're seeing these objects. Something like if Lockheed had a Tic Tac, they'd be testing it in that kind of space. And sure, they would eventually get to a place where they want to test it properly, kind of, you know, blue on blue or blue on red. But if you're testing it somewhere like off the East Coast of America, that's not secure, you're just doing it against carrier fleets. And like you quite rightly said, this went on for weeks. What happens if, you know, one of those gets shot down? Because I imagine Russia and China and all the American adversaries are watching those carrier exercises to see what intelligence they can glean off it. So if you were testing, you know, one, you know, you might lose it, but you can track it and gain it back. If you're going to test like 10 over multiple days repeatedly, then it just heightens the chances that something's going to be shot down and retrieved. And then the U.S. has your technology or an adversary does. So it just, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And I'm willing to kind of, you know, hold that place and bite my tongue and listen to more that Ross has to share on this, because I'm sure he has good reason for saying it. He feels justified. He's not just pulling our leg, but it doesn't make sense to me as it is. And that's before we even get into these, well, what about in the 50s and 60s when, you know, these propane tank-like things, which is just a tic-tac, will be in scene. Maybe the modern-day tic-tac was derived from the things in the 50s and 60s, possible, but we're guessing because we've been left with just that really kind of incendiary statement and not much to support it. I bet, who was it? Was it Mike Turba that said that he went for a ride in a tic-tac and it was absolutely Lockheed? And then he decided maybe two years later to kind of say, no, it's just an exercise. I wanted to see people, how people reacted to it. And now I'm expecting him to pop up any day saying, see, I told you so, and kind of just try and reclaim that narrative. But just to say, like, it's not the first time this has been said, you know, like this has been talked about since 2017. But we keep hearing from people like Lou and Jay Stratton and, you know, looking in those BAS documents that were kind of accidentally leaked through Phenom, AI, Non, their platform for UFO studies. No one seemed to know what this was. All of these officials, all of these departments just didn't seem to know what this was. So if it's Lockheed, they are not doing things on the up and up. They're not doing testing the usual way they do testing. I would say that. Eric Burleson, Congressman, was on a podcast, Timcast, back in May, and he shared he had spoken to someone who said the Tic Tac was Lockheed Martin technology back then. And like you say, it's been said before, and probably it speaks to Ross's reputation and standing amongst the community that him coming out and saying this has had such a big reaction. And it's a very broad reaction as well. So, you know, fair play to Ross that him making that kind of comment. I think there's a responsibility there. But Ross, I believe, knows that. And like you said, he wouldn't be saying this without good reason. But Burleson said this back in May. I've seen a few folks then comment, Dan, that if indeed in 2004 Lockheed Martin had anything like anti-gravitic propulsion, a Tic Tac, or a whole fleet of Tic Tacs, they have just lost the contract to Boeing for the F-47 fighter jet. That was a contract worth $20 billion. So that, even for a private contractor at Aerospace, that's not a small change. $20 million, maybe. $20 billion is a chunk of money. Would Lockheed Martin not own Aerospace, even if they had this stuff, which is really, really, really black budget, top secret, compartmentalized away from even most of the Lockheed Martin staff, which you imagine this kind of thing still would be. It would be a very small group of folks within Lockheed Martin, and even perhaps some employees who weren't officially Lockheed Martin would be involved in it, you know, private contractors, of private contractors, that kind of weird, that weird thing. Yep. It doesn't make sense that 20 years later, they're losing out on contracts, unless they don't need a $20 billion contract for something because they have this other stuff. What's your take on that? Well, it's difficult. Even in that scenario, I would think that certain aspects of that technology would make it into other things. So if they're making a new fighter jet, they would be like, oh, look, we got this crazy thing that makes it go higher, faster, and cheaper, you know, like that kind of stuff. But, I mean, we've also heard it's possible that they've learned nothing about this, and this is the whole problem and why they don't want to talk about it. It's quite possible that it's stovepiped inside Lockheed, and this stuff just isn't getting to where it needs to go for someone to get a $20 billion contract, you know, if they just don't know that it's in storage there. But you would think that, because in the interview, Ross says that China are catching up on this kind of technology. He mentions Russia as well. You know, the U.S. supposedly has it through Lockheed. He mentions that China's not only catching up, but had a huge, substantial leak. So if you mention U.S., Russia, China, it's like, maybe not even worry about Russia, because China has become so far advanced, and that the U.S. is so much more advanced is a bit of a myth. I actually had a point, I'd done a solo news roundup the other day, so it's hard to kind of argue with myself or make the point to myself. I'm just on the screen. Yeah, but fair play to Ross that he's not pandering to a U.S. audience, that he doesn't mind saying something that a lot of folks in the U.S. are very patriotic, and they wouldn't like to hear that as the number one superpower, they have been overtaken or could be overtaken in any way, shape, or form. However, Ross was quite happy, and I thought there was that interesting dynamic between himself and Bryce, which there is at times. Bryce doesn't seem too fussed on raising an interesting point against Ross or disagreeing with him, but you could see Bryce a bit taken back as an American to be like, you know, I'm not too sure how to take this. When Ross was like, look, China's catching up, if not ahead of you, and the U.S. know this, which I think puts an interesting spin on this whole debate. And I suppose we can talk about the drone stuff that Ross mentioned within that as well. Yeah, because that's what it gets into, right, is the drones over New Jersey, who was that? There's obviously the aspect of, you know, what happened with the U.S. and Iran, and that there are certain companies within the U.S. that thrive. Their bottom line gets bigger, and they make a lot more money when the U.S. is at war. So there are people there that are going to be trying to get into wars with other countries, and China's kind of tippy-top of that in terms of tension, right? Like, Russia a bit too, but I think Trump and Russia have kind of, I don't know, they've changed that relationship a little bit, and it develops every day. I'm not going to go into whether I agree with it or not, but, you know, it's suffice to say, I think the relationship is a little bit different to what it was under Biden. And so it's very possible that the U.S. has been leapfrogged. I can understand why someone would kind of go forward the suggestion because of the amount that's spent by the U.S. is more than, like, the next four biggest spenders on defense. I think it's even more than that. Have you seen the infographic where it's like, it shows you, like, in columns? I was going to look for it. So I thought I'd be conservative with what I was saying. But even being conservative, like, the U.S. spends so much more, exponentially more, than the kind of next ones on the list. So how could they be leapfrogged if they've got this incredible intelligence apparatus and so on and so forth? And Ross does kind of push the conversation towards, like, yeah, okay, Lockheed having a tic-tac is one thing, but really the big talking point here is that China is ahead. And there are people in the U.S. that are frustrated that nothing's being done to kind of catch up or take it seriously or anything like that. And so we're now kind of in a place where, what is the line that Ross says? How do they begin to tell the truth when our adversaries have leapfrogged us? And it's a good point because it comes across like an intelligence failing, right? And they'll kind of be a wreck. And if they're spending that much and they're that far behind or being leapfrogged, then that's a real bad thing. I did notice the Ross kept saying we when talking about Americans. And he's Australian. And he changed it a few times, but I was laughing. I could feel the Americans out there just, like, skin crawling. Like, why are you saying we? I took it like a, I bet you do it with Rangers. You say we played well today. And it's like, well, you was out on your butt in the stands. You know, you're not the Rangers football team. It's still we. I'm in the stadium cheering on the overpaid shite on the pitch in front of us. New manager, new players coming in as I text you the other day about. So, yeah, see how it goes this season. We've been here before. But anyway, before all the Celtic fans turn off. But it did make me think of, well, just one more thing I want to touch on before saying that. You know, Ross said the Tic Tac is part of two technologies Lockweed has been working on. And the other technology, I would guess if someone put a gun to my head and say, guess what that is? I would say it's silver orbs. I've heard from several people that, and I've said it before on this podcast, that the U.S. was close to having silver orbs that could just, through electromagnetics, look like they're floating. So I would expect it's probably that orbs and whatever is derived from the Tic Tac, just as a guess there. But this drone stuff also, it plugs into that. When was it? It was a couple of months back now where that guy drove the Tesla, the Cybertruck, outside the Trump Hotel and blew up. And he claimed that China had these anti-graphitic drones, right? It was Jake Lovellsberger. Yeah, I brought this up on the Discord about these. He was a guy at the Tesla that blew up or it was blown up. He was suicided or unalived. However, the algorithm wants to read into that. Yeah, I'm getting better. Speaking of the cool kids, I see. I am down with the kids. Bebo and MySpace have got nothing on me. But yeah, there was a whole weird thing came out at the time where he had left this sort of, I don't know, do you call it a manifesto or that the drone stuff was all a false flag and it was going to lead to like an alien invasion type scenario. And that came and went very quickly. And I saw a lot of folks online commenting that some of the stuff he mentioned kind of then rings true in what Ross is saying with the drone stuff, with the tic-tac being Lockheed Martin. It may be just as it's basic connected dots though. And I'm not saying that perhaps there was something to it or there wasn't, but it may be it's too easy to make those connections because it's nothing that hasn't been said over the years and decades. Dan, correct me if I'm wrong. You can speak for yourself. I know I very much at the time was on the side of the drone stuff seemed very much human tech. I couldn't see anything in videos online that looked spectacular. It just looked like lights flying in the sky. It was weird. I always said that, that there was so much around it and these things were being filmed. But yeah, I didn't see a whole lot to that other than it being U.S. or something to that, to that, you know. Yeah. What if they blamed it on the FAA, didn't they? And the FAA categorically denied it when it was happening. So we still don't know what's to kind of blame. We also had the rumor that there was an Iranian tanker off the coast that these drones were coming from. China was kind of floated around also that they were looking for like a dirty bomb and nuclear bomb in New Jersey. That was one of the pop-ups. And that turned out to be like medical equipment that was a tiny amount. What was it? Well, that's, you know, that was the paperwork that someone brought out when they said it and it showed that it was this tiny thing. So, but that took like a week to pass through for people. So, because none of us are experts in this stuff. And that's why I think it's better to kind of take it seriously, but hold it lightly whilst the wheels spin and someone like, you know, Mick West will present his side and the believers will present their side. And then you kind of weigh it up, you know, and still come out with more questions and saying, I don't know. But the thing that stood out for me is where they're talking about advanced drones. And I spoke to a little while back, the head of, or the ex-head of the FBI's counter drone unit. And he took me through the technologies that they had to kind of take drones out, how they worked, what they wanted, the fact that they weren't being given enough funding to teach local law enforcement, to be able to take down drones and assess drones properly. And so the ability to identify something as advanced in terms of drones in New Jersey is really lacking. You know, there's not anything really there that you can say, yeah, we found XYZ, so it's definitely advanced. And the videos that people were putting up, you know, saying that these orbs were turning into planes, turned out to just be like planes turning in the sky and things like that. And so, yeah, nothing exotic, I would say, seemed present to me. And when people are saying things like, oh, but the drone guns didn't knock them out of the sky. We have to remember that, you know, drones aren't magic. Just like your phone has, you know, when you open, you go into a new place and you get a Wi-Fi and you go in and you open your Wi-Fi and there's like a network that's 2.4 and a network that's 5 gigahertz. Everything that uses radio space uses a specific kind of frequency on that radio space. Wi-Fi are those two frequencies, 2.4 and 5. But when it comes to drones, they communicate on certain frequencies with the, you know, the base station, the person controlling it. So if, say, I was an adversary and I knew that the US had XYZ technology that worked on certain bands, I would just make a drone that didn't work on those frequency bands. And then the effect that happens is someone goes, oh, the drone gun didn't work. It's advanced. It must be aliens or anti-gravity China drone, when really it's just a normal drone that just changed its settings a little bit so it wasn't affected. We've got to remember that when people say advanced, break it down like that, get into why is it advanced? Like what would it actually take to skirt the technologies that are available? And like everything else, you know, today the US makes a technology that can take a drone out of the sky. Tomorrow, the adversary makes a drone that isn't affected by the technology. The next day, the US makes technology that can take that drone down the next day. And it's just a constant cat and mouse game of this kind of stuff, of really, you know, really rudimentary things that they can change to make their weapons and anti-drone weapons ineffective. Bryce Sable, at the end of the recording with Ross Coulter, he did say, and I thought this was a really fair point to bring up because Ross done most of the talking on the episode, that he feels in all of this, for it all to make sense, and that's the tic-tac stuff, the drones being human tech, non-human tech, and the tic-tac being reverse engineer, back engineer, whatever it might be. It almost seems like there needs to be another player in all of this, that it can't just be the US, China, Russia, private contractors. And for me, he's alluding there to a non-human intelligence somewhere along that line is at play. I did a quick check, Dan, on where people were kind of at with this whole thing on a poll. And I just asked, you know, for the tic-tac is, and I put human tech, non-human tech, and reverse engineer tech. Now, the difference, obviously, with non-human tech and reverse engineer tech is that non-human is alien. Reverse engineer does, it's ours, but we have used it from alien technology. And then human tech is, we have just designed it ourselves without anything back-engineered. Only 17% of 1,000 people thought it was human tech. 44% of people said non-human, so aliens, essentially. And then 40%, so pretty close, said reverse engineered. So there's still a huge uncertainty there. But the idea that it's just human tech doesn't fly with most folks, which is, would you expect it to land about there? Yeah. I would imagine, you know, an even split between the three. The believers are very passionate, the debunkers are very passionate, you know. So I think that would be a fair reflection of the community in what I've seen. I am joined an X space where people were chatting through this yesterday. Someone called Marie. Are you okay? How was it? I'm fine. You know, it was so weird. It was, I famously, in my own head, don't get involved in X or Twitter spaces. But it was okay. I just, it happened to pop up. It was like lunchtime. I was working my day job, doing some stuff. I was doing podcast stuff on a different screen. And I was like, oh, I saw it pop up at the side. And I mean, I'll click on it just for a minute or two. And there was some interesting chat just to hear what people are saying about the tic-tac stuff. And there was some disagreement going on. Got a little bit heated between a few people. But generally, some good points and stuff were being made. So I thought that was quite interesting. But yeah, I don't plan on going in too many of them. I don't have a lot of time for that kind of stuff. But yeah, there was some good folks hosting them. And it seems to be there's a whole community of folks that enjoy doing these things quite regular. So yeah, didn't put me off. But a lot of good debate going on around it. And for me, it's really, it's not divided. People, people are divided anyway. We talked about this quite a lot, Dan, over the last couple of months and maybe more than that, the community is quite disparate, whatever you want to call it, fractured anyway. I'm just surprised, I think, the more I kind of keep looking at it, how much of an impact this statement of Rossi's has had. I'd love to hear him follow up on it. And it needs to, in some way, shape or form, I think. And if it is just that, you know, I've got sources and I, you know, I believe them, then that's fine. But he has thought differently in the past. So could that change? Who could change his mind? That would go a long way to helping. It would be nice to, because there's a difference between someone told Ross a story and someone showed Ross a video of it working at a Lockheed facility. And these are the development stages. And this is how much they spent on it. And these are the personnel that worked on it. You know, very different levels of authentication. So, yeah. And I think Ross is doing a, like, Ask Me Anything on his News Nation reality check show. He does regular Q&A's on it now. Yeah. So I saw someone said that they just recorded one, like, after the Bryce and Ross need to know show. So I think a lot of questions there are going to be towards Ross about this claim. Yeah. It's a strange one to consider, because it kind of means, okay, if Lockheed have had this and they're just keeping it under wraps, then they've let the world struggle. They've let the country that's given them the contract struggle. You know, like, there's a lot to be answered for there in terms of what are they using it for? Why are they keeping it secret? Reminds me a bit of the oil industry, though, and climate change and how they were in the 60s and 70s. And now it came out that they knew that what they were doing had this adverse effect on the climate of the planet, and they did it anyway because they wanted money. And I don't know, maybe someone in that mix is evil, but all of them feel righteous and they've gotten us to this place instead of just being transparent about it. And it could be that Lockheed are like, okay, this is the best we've got, but we're not going to let it out because the second someone sees us using it, they're going to develop the same thing. And we don't have anything that can beat it. So until they have something that can beat it, they might not let it out. That kind of seems like, I'm trying to think like a defense contractor would think, you know, why wouldn't I use my most powerful thing to just end the war immediately? Maybe a happy medium. Skittishness? Yeah, a happy medium would be get the Tic Tac technology, put all the Just Stop Oil protesters on board and show them it working from 80,000 feet to the sea level in two seconds, just so they can go out knowing that, yeah, we do have this clean energy and it's coming soon. And then that solves a whole lot of problems and they can stop interrupting sport events. If it is, you know, the technology is, as it's being described, they wouldn't die if they were inside it, right? They would be in this bubble or whatever and the inertia would be dampened. So they just get off when it landed and be like, oh, that's interesting. Not on this one. The bubble wasn't turned on. It's turned off. Just human error. Someone forgot to turn it on when. Okay. It would make a great Netflix documentary, though. So, yeah, moving on then, Dan, from that one. I wanted to get your opinions very quickly on MUFON Symposium. Have you seen much about this coming up? I have not, no. I think I saw that Thomas Jane is talking there. That's the only thing I've seen. Yes. So the 17th to the 20th of July, Northern Kentucky Convention Center in Cincinnati, Ohio, live stream worldwide, couple of days event. Big talking point, though, is they are revealing materials of unknown origin, which they've talked about last year. And they're saying lab analyze physical evidence linked to non-human intelligence. What's your take on this? For me, I have said before, I don't think if they had genuinely incredible exotic material of non-human origin that you would hold it for months, build up a live event over a three day event and then live stream it. If it was really that good, I don't even think you'd have to jump on the news anymore. You could contact Joe Rogan's people and be like, I've got this really great material and it's genuinely something. Here's some of the early results. I'd love to share it live on your podcast and they will snap you up like that. And you will get your money and everything and a huge audience of millions. There are so many ways to kind of get their stuff out there. Now, I just think anyone who's expecting something big from that, I would love to be blown away, but I can't see it. Yeah, same. Because with stuff like this, it was true of the whole Nazca mummies, right? The way it was presented at a UFO hearing was the wrong way to present an anthropological find and have it taken seriously. The world of anthropology is not free of kind of skepticism and people going at each other. But when Dr. Lieberger presented the Homo Naledi stuff, it was controversial, but he did it through science and with papers. And because he did it in the proper way, people came around a lot easier when they realized, oh, this is actually legit and it's a legitimate find. And so all of the kind of things that he's finding from them. Whereas presenting at a UFO conference, something world shaking is not the way to be taken seriously with these things. It kind of kneecaps you right away. I don't know what conference he would present at, though, even though I'm saying that. Maybe the Sol Foundation, you know, they have their Stardust repository, they've got their symposium coming up, lots of academics on board that want to study this stuff. That would probably be a better place to present this. But again, I don't know what MUFON has to show us. They could, for all I know, show up with a bunch of peer-reviewed papers that blows everything out of the water. So I'm just kind of guessing. But, you know, seeing something on the Daily Mail website that's presented at a MUFON conference and said to be ET, if I was impartial to this subject, it wouldn't move me, right? Like the only people that are going to watch a MUFON conference are the people that are into this subject anyway and are more likely to believe that kind of thing. Yeah. No, that's not unfair. I've just remembered there was a really good question from Dave, Sneaky Dave, in the Discord around Tic Tacs and Skywatcher that I think is really, really good. We'll get to him and talk about the Skywatcher stuff because what I'd quite like to do, Dan, is, like I say, given we're halfway through the year, and I might split this up into two episodes now just because we've gone about 40 minutes, there's a lot of stuff that have kind of happened. And I said to you, I don't know if you've done it, but have you got a couple of things from the first part of the year that you want to chat through? Yeah. I mean, I've got three that might be quite similar anyway, but I know you've got some other news items we'll look at. That is all for part one. Part two will be out in the next couple of days. 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