Congressman talks Aliens, Trump's briefing & Hybrids

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When teens are excited and risks aren't obvious yet. As teens start earning, they're learning fast, but they're still new to spotting fraud. Greenlight helps them save, spend, and invest responsibly while monitoring for identity theft and suspicious activity. With alerts, credit monitoring, and up to $1 million in identity theft coverage, parents get real peace of mind as their teens gain independence. Don't wait. Try Greenlight risk-free today at greenlight.com slash scam. I'm Richard Dolan, and you're listening to That UFO Podcast. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. My name is Andy, and joining me to have a look at some news that's dropped in the last couple of days in the UFO world. I've got the co-host of Liminal Frames. I've got the co-host of Calling All Beings, still, now and again. I've got Nathan, who is joining me more frequently, which is nice to see. So, Nathan, welcome back, mate. Thanks, Andy. Good to be back with you. I really enjoy it. Very good to have you on. Hopefully, in the next week or so, folks, Dan will be back for a show with me. He's settling down out in the United States of America, the USA, some folks call it. And, obviously, Pavel has been on recently chatting, so it's been nice to hear those kind of different voices as well, discussing a bit of a strange time in the UFO world where there is a lot happening, and it's been kind of hard to follow. But I suppose, I think, for this one, Nathan, we're largely going to focus on some big news that happened over the last couple of days with Eric Burleson and some comments he made. But just before we go there, Nathan, I can't help but notice your eyes keep looking over my shoulder. And for folks, Spurious Link, on the audio side of things, this might not be ideal, but very quickly, I've actually got a hard copy of my book, folks. I'll do a little proper video for it online, so anyone looking in the background, that's the actual book. I have the real, proper Atlas of UFOs here, loads of maps, pictures, and there is text and stuff in there as well that I wrote. So if you've not pre-ordered it and plan on doing so, great time, it's real, it's an actual thing. Look, there you go. For the audio, folks, that flick was the hard back of the book. So I'll do a proper video. How do I get one of those? How do I get a signed? How do you get a signed copy? Well, there's so many different ways. Nathan, I'm glad you asked to order. But what we'll do is we'll go through that at the end, okay, so I don't annoy folks right now tuning in for the actual UFO news. Go and shut the fuck up, Andy, and just get on with it. But, yeah, ask me again at the end, Nathan, I can run through all those details with you. Good man. Might send you a free copy for that. Nathan, so a couple of days ago, I had probably a day when I wasn't online too much, just work and everything else. I was really busy. And over the course of a couple of hours, I saw a lot of notifications, stuff on the Discord, jumping onto X as you do now and again. And notice that Congressman Eric Burleson, who has been on this podcast and many other news channels and whatnot throughout the years. He's, is it Missouri? I just totally forgot. That's correct. And that show me state thing is very relevant again here. Eric Burleson, Congressman, he's done a couple of, one interview with Redacted News on YouTube, which has nearly 3 million subscribers. And again, totally separate conversation. I had this on a friend's podcast, Wrong Term Memory, that I've been helping out with a little bit recently. And it's a pop culture podcast, very Scottish for people who like the accent. Go check it out. And we were just talking about mainstream news and how different it is these days. That news channel online is two former MSNBC hosts. I think there are a couple. And 3 million subscribers. People are getting their news in so many different ways these days. So it's a big channel, folks, if you haven't heard of it. Go check it out. But it's like a short interview, like 20 minutes long. And yeah, so between that and an X or Twitter space for the old ones on here, Eric Burleson made some big comments. He's talked a lot. And we're going to have to qualify this, I think, Nathan, to say we're going to mention David Grush a lot here. David Grush hasn't really done much at all public recently. This is a lot of, we're going to probably say a lot, David Grush told Eric Burleson. But that's all we've got to go on right now. So we'll get to that conversation. But you're going to hear that quite a lot, folks. I don't think there's any reason at this point to disbelieve. But it's just important to point out that, you know, Eric Burleson's kind of mentioning stuff David Grush has told him. Because he has David Grush on his staff as a consultant at this point. So, yeah, really interesting. Twitter spaces are X spaces as well. I tend not to go on many of them at all, Nathan. I don't know about you. They come across, like, town hall meetings with a lot of voices. And it can just be a little bit much at times. But you've got congressmen now joining these spaces. So, you know, it's what the kids are up to these days, I suppose. True. So we'll kick off with the redacted news media show, though, which, 20 minutes, loads of stuff was talked about. It started off with the Bugha sphere footage. And we've not talked about this yet, Nathan. Not recently anyway. Local treasure hunter in Bugha, Colombia, found this sphere in the air and filmed it traveling about. I'll say it allegedly, but the footage looks real enough. But you know what a real look like. And he was out metal detecting, doing his treasure hunting thing. And this thing landed on the ground. And he's taken it in. He's handed it over to Jaime Mussan and co. And it's now being dealt with from that point of view. Loads of folks involved with it. I'll just repeat that Brazilian journalist Ronnie Vernay has come out quite recently. And I know Ross Coulter and others shared this as well and mentioned that it does quite closely, closely resemble a nine litre fuel tank that's potentially been changed or altered. There's a lot of symbology all over it. There's a rim that runs around the outside of it. There are what looks like small holes around the outside, around the equator, you would call it, I suppose. But apparently these holes aren't empty. They are filled with small fibers. Again, really strange. It's not something you can see yourself necessarily. But this is something talked about by Eric Burleson. What's your take on this whole Bugha Sphere thing for a start? Yeah, well, the footage, like you said, is really interesting. It does seem to behave a little bit erratically in the footage that I've seen. But the comparison between the propellant tank and the Bugha Sphere is pretty compelling from my standpoint. So I'm leaning towards the hoax here more so than the real. Nevertheless, still keeping an open mind. But, yeah, I think the evidence that I've seen thus far, and, of course, the Jaime-Masson connection is a little bit shaky for some people, myself included. But the evidence I've seen about the propellant tank, to me, kind of puts it more towards the hoax column. I think I've talked about it enough to say I think I've got to lean towards hoax. But I'm giving this one a chance, as I always like to do. So, samples have been taken now by scientists from the United States. Eric Burleson's confirmed this. He doesn't buy a lot of the hypothesis either. He seems to lean towards, you know, this must be something manufactured, man-made. But let the science kind of happen. He mentioned the holes around the outside. He's looked at them under microscopes, filled with fiber optics. You've really got to let the science do the work here. And it looks like that science is going to be done. When you look, I mentioned this with Pavel from Secoactivo podcast, who was on with me last week. Thanks to everyone who checked that one out. It's been really popular. You know, there's a bit of a cast of folks involved with the presentation. Jaime-Masson, I believe his son was moderating. I hadn't seen his son before. But then Stephen Greer, Danny Sheehan, Eric Burleson, Tim Alvarino. It's quite the group of folks there, very eclectic. And we'll get to that when we speak about Burleson in a little bit more detail as we go along and who he's involved with. But it's an interesting bunch of characters to be attached to this. But, Nathan, let's give them the benefit of the doubt here. Sure. If indeed we've got something akin to, I think many folks listening to this will have seen the movie Signs. And we all like that bit of footage where the alien walks past the Brazilian birthday party. It's quite scary. It looks really raw, gritty, authentic. This has to start somewhere. And in real life, what if this is the real life moment where this guy out doing his thing with his metal detector has come across an actual sphere? This thing that's been reported for centuries, decades, millennia, perhaps, who knows, going back in scripture, all that kind of thing. One of these things has come down. This guy's got a hold of it. So we're going to say, what if he's got the first genuine footage of a sphere and the sphere itself? What if Jaime, Missan and Co. actually have something here? What does that mean? Yeah, well, I think we have to keep an open mind about it. I think we tend to take a really quick knee-jerk reaction to news that comes out of sources like Jaime Missan. I think that's unfair. There's a saying, even a broken clock is right twice a day. So there certainly can be legitimate discoveries, even if someone has a history of illegitimate promotion. Sometimes that can just be they're too earnest. You know, they really are too believing and everything. Yeah, they just want to. They're just trying to put everything out there. They don't do a lot of screening. They just kind of put it out to the public and have the public and the court of public opinion make a decision. So in some ways, I can respect that approach. It's pretty transparent. Now, where I think it starts getting a little dangerous is where you've seen statements like Stephen Greer has done things like this in the past, where he's kind of put a lot of his own overlay on the material. So he's bringing a lot of his own interpretation to whatever this object is. And I don't think I think he's put the cart before the horse. He's not necessarily done the due diligence to understand whether this is a legitimate piece or not. But but certainly the spheres are really interesting because there's a lot of footage of spheres in the skies around airplanes. You know, we've seen that kind of footage, the Patrick Jackson stuff. If folks aren't familiar with his analysis on on the spheres, his hypothesis is that these objects are sort of some part of some sort of global defense network against something else. Then, of course, I was also reminded, you know, Jesse Michaels had Ross Coulthard on and Ross talked about the sphere that he had from. I can't remember the gentleman's name, but from Texas. Yeah, the Texas guy. And there was a lot of flack for, you know, folks wanted to know the results of having that tested. And I guess Gary Nolan was maybe going to test it at one point that didn't didn't materialize. And then he handed that, I guess, Brandon Fugel may be doing some testing on that sphere. But Ross in that exchange, you know, he was recounting that he was talking with this guy and the sphere was just sitting in the room on a flat surface. And it just spontaneously moved across the floor. So that's a really interesting account. Obviously, I want more. I want to see that. I want to test that just like everybody else does. But the point being spheres orbs are a big part of UFO sightings. So, you know, what would happen if it does kind of break the dam, right? If a if something found in a field by just some some treasure hunter ends up being the domino that kind of pushes all the other dominoes down and starts the conversation on a global scale. I think that'd be really quite interesting. So keep an open mind. That's what I do. I try. Yeah, I agree with you around the with Greer, Musan and others on all sides of the UFO conversation. There can be this want or desire or perhaps sometimes naivety that you want everything to be real. And it's a little bit like if you come across a baby's nappy, what looks like it's full of shit and you stick your finger in it, hoping to find chocolate. Sometimes you're better testing these things out in different ways than sticking your finger in it and holding that in your mouth. Right. Sometimes the nappy is full of shit, but it's the best one. It's really hot in this shed. So apologies, folks, for the for that comparison. But people are really, really keen to see that. And rather than step back. And I think I mentioned this with Pavel on the last recording that. I think Jaime Musan himself opened that conference with a line and it was something like. This is alien. This is non-human. It's extraterrestrial. I have no doubt about that. But we still have to do all the science. And it's like, right. Do you see the issue with that statement? And that's where it's like the boy who cried wolf. You might end up with something truly groundbreaking just because of how tenacious it appears you are, Jaime, with all of this. I don't know Jaime Musan and I don't know his work well enough. I know a very high level approach of it to comment further. But it just looks like, take a breath, mate. If you're going to have something, you need to do the due diligence. You have to slow down. And scientists being involved, US or otherwise, getting samples, great, brilliant. They can go and do the work on that, which I think is really, really important. As part of that, Burleson said it was David Grush who had convinced him to go to Peru to see the Nazca mummies that have been in and out of the headlines over the past couple of years now. I think I'm due an update on that one soon, so I'm looking for a guest on it. But Grush said to Burleson that they were similar to what he had seen in briefings. Otherwise, Burleson wasn't going to go, as he wouldn't have believed it was worth going to look at, basically. And Burleson said, according to Grush, it looks like some of these mummies could be real. Others are definitely fake. So, again, what's your take on Grush passing on that information to Burleson, Burleson acting on it and heading out there? Yeah, I think it's very challenging to navigate this material because there is such a mixture of bad science and fascinating discovery. And to parse the two can be really difficult. Burleson saying Grush gave him a tip this might be worth looking at because the physiology was very similar to things that he had seen in briefings. I mean, that is really good information. It would be nice to hear that from David Grush himself. But I think a lot of this highlights the real challenge that someone in Grush's position is in. So you're fighting against this history of extreme stigma and of bad actors, right? So the waters are so incredibly muddy over the many decades of hoaxes and legitimate sightings, etc., etc. And he's wading into that context. And it's just really difficult, I think, for him to make any statement without everyone bringing out their microscopes and pouring over that statement and scrutinizing every facet of it and saying, oh, well, here's an example where David Grush is absolutely mistaken. And, you know, the Nazca mummies are totally fake. They've been proven to be fake because they were llama skulls or whatever it is. So, therefore, everything Grush has said is now suspect, right? You can see the association there is really difficult. So Grush has to be particularly careful about statements that he's making in public. And so what makes me wonder is how does Grush feel about the things that Burleson is saying Grush has told him, right? So there's an interesting, you know, hey, Congressman, I wish you hadn't mentioned that in a Twitter space or whatnot. I wish you had just kind of kept that to the side. But I think that's what's going to happen, unfortunately, if David Grush allows others to set the narrative on his behalf, which unfortunately has been the case. He's not made additional public statements. He's not really accessible on social media interviews and that kind of thing since his first appearance. So I think that's a byproduct of really the strategies he's chosen to take here. Well, we'll come back to Grush then and why that may be and carry on with the Burleson side of things. But so Burleson also mentions he's been talking to Stephen Greer. So if you look at the conference he's attended, the company he keeps, you've got this congressman. And I imagine this goes for Tim Burchett as well and potentially Anna Paulina Luna, who I don't see as attached to the, I keep saying cast of characters. I don't want that to be disparaging. I just mean that the folks we know within this UFO field. So if you look at Burleson, you've got Greer, Eric Davis, David Grush, Luella Zondo, Chris Mellon, Tim Alberino, all giving him information, pointers. I imagine there's a lot of ego involved within that, naturally. And there will be a lot of, this guy's full of shit. Don't listen to this one. You know, these guys are involved in this. This is, and even if you just look at, I think it's always easy to use Greer and Elizondo as two opposing sides of the argument. You then quite Grush into that. You then have like a bit of a wild card with a Timothy Alberino and Eric Davis from a pure scientific point of view. Eric Burleson's in the middle of this, trying to navigate, like you say, this UFO topic, this UFO conversation without decades of information, without all the background, you know, that you might find there. And he's not read all the books I've got behind me. He's not listened to all the podcasts. He's not read all the articles, but he's got all these folks telling him their piece. That must be incredibly difficult to try and form any sort of coherent, right, this is where I have to go with this. All the while, trying to be a congressman and actually do your job and get re-elected at some point. If that is how that works, he has to stand for re-election and being tarred with the UFO brush. Where do you think, how do you think that sits? It seems like an awful position to be in. And, yeah, I think folks need to be reminded that, like, as you said, Burleson has a lot of other responsibilities beyond looking into UAP. He also doesn't have the depth of background. So, you know, I recall when during one of those first hearings I was watching and Burleson was on the panel of congresspeople asking the questions and listening to the testimony. And I took a screenshot of his face and posted it on X. And I think that my comment was, you know, ontological shock in real time because you could see Burleson's face just like he couldn't really process what he was hearing. And so it can be frustrating, I think, for those of us that follow this really closely to it's like you have a friend who you can see just making bad decisions right in front of you. And you've learned from your own experience, like, oh, this is a terrible idea. Like, don't go, don't go there. But in some ways they have to make that mistake on their own. But it highlights the real challenges that we have in this topic with a, with a, with government agencies that are not transparent with the information that they have. And so what are trustworthy sources, right? So you've got Grush, who I think people find for the most part to be pretty credible. You've got Greer, who's got a mixed history there, but who certainly has a history of having some credible witnesses that he's gathered. So he does have connections. I think it would be difficult to argue otherwise. So how do you decide and parse what is legitimate information from misinformation? Incredibly challenging to do. And that, you know, I think speaks to why we need that kind of panel that's in the legislative language, this UAP review board that's going to look at all this material. But, but you bring up a great point that you've got all of these, you know, sort of partisans, lobbyists for the UAP topic. And I'm thinking of, you know, your Danny Sheehan's and your Stephen Greer's and, you know, all these folks that are, they're going to be jockeying for attention and for time and for a particular narrative to try to get that narrative into inserted into the picture. And that may be a really inappropriate way to, to, to, to, to tackle the material, right. To kind of go in with a preconceived notion that like, let's take Danny Sheehan as an example, you know, it's a galactic civilization full of all these ET races. And, you know, we're just waiting on our time to join that, that, that civilization. And he's going to come at the material from that particular perspective, maybe not letting the evidence itself dictate the understanding. So it's a real, it's a real issue there. And I think it's not going to be something that's going to go away anytime soon. If this continues to gain traction and more and more people get interested in this at the congressional level and the wider public, everyone kind of has to go through that journey on their own. I mean, I, I certainly have gone through many journeys of like that, you know, where, Oh, Stephen Greer is really compelling. Oh wait, maybe he's got some problems, you know? So you kind of have to go through that because those have been the people who've been courageous enough to try to, to try to understand this content for so many years. And I'll always give props that when I speak to, it tends to be friends that I work with and we get into a chat about UFOs. Stephen Greer is a name that comes up really often. And I think I've said before that the two names that probably come up most often, I'll, I'll, I'll say three actually, Stephen Greer, Jeremy Corbell and Bob Lazar. Corbell and Lazar tend to come up sometimes and, and, you know, congruency with each other. But a lot of folks will say to me, Oh, I watched this documentary on Netflix and it was a, it was this guy, he's, you know, caught, you know, caught a big guy in the ass. It'll be Greer. And they'll go, Stephen, he was a doctor. I'm like, yeah. And that's, that's their only toe in the water of the UFO topic. But it's interested them or it's fascinated them or they're not sure what to think. I'm not, I don't say to them, don't watch that. That's bullshit. Go watch this instead. What I'll suggest is here are some other things such as check out in plain sight, check out the phenomenon documentary, check out moment of contact, check out. I love Dan Aykroyd unplugged on UFOs, which is available for free on YouTube, which is a little bit more early 2000s in production value. I love it though. And it's got Phoenix Light stuff in there and there's a lot of stuff to look at. So who am I? On that couple of last interesting notes from the redacted show before we talk about the kind of, I suppose, even bigger statements on the X space. Burleson mentioned that Japan are looking to create something similar to Arrow as they have a large number of sightings over nuclear sites and water. It makes sense. And also he was asked, he was asked by the host, which I thought, I thought they'd done a really good job. Where are all the whistleblowers at? And he kind of gave a bit of a political answer saying, you know, we're working on it. We're trying to make progress with it. We're trying to create an environment that can come forward. And the host of the show then ends it, Nathan, by saying, you know, I know a lot of whistleblowers. I've had folks on this show. I know people who haven't come forward yet who want to talk about this stuff. I'll get my people to get in touch with your people. And Eric Burleson's like, great, that's good. So that sounded positive. Not saying that's all 100% great authentic leads. You know, we've all had that thing of you're recommended a friend of a friend for a job. And they turn up and they don't quite, I mean, I've been that guy before. I was recommended a bar job in my kind of late teens when I was looking for work. And I had never worked in a bar before. But the person was assured that I had lots of experience working in bars. So, you know, I've been that guy. Not saying that that'll be exactly what's happening here. But you would like to think something good may come of that. Anything on either of those two points? Yeah, no, I think the big thing that I consider when I hear statements like that is that that is a common refrain we have heard over the last many months, that there are a lot of whistleblowers that are waiting to come forward. So, you know, we've discussed this a little bit before, but it's what is the what is the signal that all of these folks are looking for to be comfortable enough to step forward? And do they step forward in unison? Do they step forward, you know, really close to one another? You know, is it a is it another Jake Barber? Is it is it Age of Disclosure? You know, what are the things that they're looking for as a kind of cover to give them more comfort in sharing their stories? I mean, I can only speak from my own personal experience. So I'm my full name isn't publicly available. And I, you know, in part because I feel like maybe there isn't enough momentum behind the topic to where I feel comfortable enough putting myself out there on one hundred percent. But I but I think we're all looking for that moment. When is that moment where you're not going to be derided for showing interest in this and people aren't going to immediately overlay that all of the baggage of the topic onto you just because you say, yeah, I'm interested in UFOs and UAP. Like it's a really it's a really difficult place to be. And the lawmaker statements are interesting, too. There's a lot of it appears to me, at least, that the UAP caucus has a lot of frustration in kind of the way they've been able to gather information and they feel like they've been stonewalled by certain agencies. They've heard compelling testimony. They're trying to chase down leads. But many times the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. And it's clear that there's just a lot of there's a lot of obfuscation still still taking place, preventing the interested parties from getting closer to the real information. Yes. Let's move on to some of the bigger statements, even the Eric Burleson made on an X space. And for those of you and I always forget this and try and try not to try not to forget it. There are so many folks listening to this who aren't on social media, who don't bother with it at all. So if you aren't on Twitter or X or haven't been, literally, it's you can open a channel and host like imagine me hosting this interview. But loads of people come in live, can listen. You can then allow speakers to come forward and ask questions. So random folks from the public can speak to people involved. And you can be an admin, a host, a speaker, all that kind of stuff. And Eric Burleson, to his credit, jumped onto one of those. And they are pretty popular in some circuits. And there's some really big UFO ones get done. So kudos to those those who do them and do them well. Burleson basically said, and this was misconstrued by a few folks at first, but it was corrected pretty quickly, that Donald Trump, President Donald Trump, as if I have to say President, I think people know who Donald Trump is. Not not junior and Trump was briefed on UFOs in the middle of his impeachment and it rocked his worldview. Initially, some folks had misquoted Burleson and made out as if it was Grush who who briefed him. It wasn't David Grush. I've not seen a confirmation, but I've got I've seen folks say it was Stratton who would have briefed Trump because I believe Trump's impeachment. This is where I'm going to rely on you, Nathan, here. Was that 2019? The middle of the impeachment? I thought it was later than that. Was it? Well, whenever that impeachment was, he was he was I went on for a while and rocked his worldview. He made a joke that I won't even repeat about someone else being an alien hybrid. I can't remember who that guy was. And he was told that there are half breeds in the world, human alien hybrids living amongst us. That's interesting. You know, Trump's always come across as a guy who even in his first term in office, he he done this sit down with Don Jr. It was it was Don Jr. Wasn't it and I remember the lead in for the teaser for the interview was about Roswell and he asked him just right. You know, what do you think? What happened at Roswell? Don Jr. Has an interest in the UFO topic and. The actual interview, Trump didn't say too much other than he respects the pilots, the men and women who have come forward to discuss this. And, you know, something's going on. They've seen something. He doesn't necessarily believe it's aliens or that kind of stuff. But he's not closed off to it completely. And perhaps not as invested as some folks think. But then you're hearing, actually, he was given a briefing that in no uncertain terms told him we've got hybrids kicking about UFOs are real. And he's kind of gone on from there, as you will. I'll just say, Nathan. And I could well believe Trump has been given that briefing from a Jay Stratton or whoever else with a lot of holy shit information like that. And I think he's the type of person who can compartmentalize it himself and go, right now, does this suit me? How can I leverage it? Do I want to leverage it and go, no, I've got other things that I deem more important. And that's not a dig at Trump, by the way. I just think there are people who can do that. And I wouldn't be shocked if Trump was one of those. Yeah. So a few things on that. I did look it up. You were correct. So I apologize. But it did start at the end of 2019 and it finished in early 2020. That was the impeachment. So interesting time period there. And Jay Stratton certainly could have been person briefing him on that information. And I think the comments that you've made about what Trump has said about the subject are really interesting to me and have interested me for some time, particularly because we know Trump as his character. He is one to not shy away from conversations, put it that way. So if he has information and that information, if he feels that information kind of gives him a greater degree of power or authority or or the only one with the high ground, he totally I've got the high ground now and I can write. So he's he's not one to to to sort of not utilize that information for his own gain in some form or fashion. And he knows just like his son, there are a lot of people interested in the subject. So what I find interesting in his commentary is it's a very he's more he walks more of a tightrope than he does with other subjects. As far as I can tell, he says things like, oh, you know, it's I've been briefed on this. It's very interesting, but I don't I don't really personally think that there's anything to it. But these pilots, these beautiful pilots, likes to talk about how handsome they are. You know, they come in and they tell me these stories and they say, sir, I saw this and I saw that. Like, you know, saying, sir. And and so you've got these interesting accounts. And that that that little blurb, in fact, has become pretty popular in the last week where he talked about they had seen spheres. These are these accounts of fighter pilots having seen spheres and Trump talking about that. Right. So beautiful spheres. Beautiful spheres. Yeah, exactly. The best spheres here in America. Playing the accordion. And so it's fascinating because he I feel as if and I and I'm I'm a partisan, right? So I feel as if he's being guarded and what he is saying about the subject. He's he's giving it some lip service, but not as much as I would expect him to if he felt more comfortable talking about it longer. So there's something going on there. I don't know what it is. So, you know, yeah. And this briefing, like I think any of us would have that feeling if that's we were just sat we sat down and told there were all these beings and they were experimenting with people. And I don't know if you want to get into the specific quote. That's probably worth worth worth sharing from Burleson about what the briefing entailed. Yeah. So I mean, I've got a few quotes here and I've got a few notes on it. So let's see if it comes up. And if it doesn't, please correct me or bring it in. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business. Whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. So I'm going to bring in a Joe Murgia here, UFO Joe on it, who is great for going back and remembering to bring stuff that's relevant forward. So he mentions, obviously, the Burleson quote of Grush says, some of them, that there are aliens that are crossbreeds living in the world. Burleson, and I, so I'm quoting Burleson here. And I asked him, I go, okay, do they know that they're a crossbreed? Or do they, like, how would you know, like, they're a crossbreed? And he didn't have an answer for that, like, he didn't know if they knew. And then Joe Murgia had put, is this what Grush was talking about on Joe Rogan when David Grush was on Rogan? Rogan asked him, when it comes to these actual entities, do we have an understanding of how many of them we're talking about and the variety of them? Then Grush says, there is a variety and we have a certain number of different things. I talked to people who were familiar with the biological analysis of everything. So we have some idea, not a complete picture, because it's like, you know, looking at it like, it's like, well, I don't even understand the physiology at all. It's like, what the heck? It's like, way different, right? So I'm obviously reading exactly as Grush spoke. Rogan then said, is there a description of this physiology? And then Grush said, yeah, no, I was in the room when I got to be careful. I don't want to. I was in Washington, D.C. with a very number of senior people that worked for members of Congress. Senate staffers seem like a safe bet. Joe Murgia adds, put it that way, when I was still in government and I brought the people who worked on that stuff to the hill. And this is why the members were so confident to put out the Schumann amendment and stuff. And I was like, please explain. And they went into all those details. And I remember some of the professional staff members were like, whoa, they were like in G-lock, right? Because I mean, and like a total world bubble got burst right there for a lot of people. So good, good pullback from Joe Murgia talking about Grush on Rogan. I imagine if folks have got the time going back to listen to that David Grush interview in full, again, might pull some more good quotes out. And it was also relevant because quite recently there was that kind of, what was the reason for it? Again, was it the Open Secrets hearing or no? The one that had Burleson, Sheehan, Tim Gallaudet, Elizondo showed, Lou Elizondo showed the crop circle that was the irrigation field. At that event on YouTube, Burleson said he spoke to Eric Davis. And Davis mentioned on there about the four different species. And again, for some folks well-versed in the UFO topic, this isn't new. But again, appreciate, put yourself in Eric Burleson's shoes. So I suppose in this is kind of representing Joe Public finding out about this topic in conversation. Let's not get into all the disinfo, psyop stuff just yet. But he says, you know, you've got these greys that are avatars or biological AI controlled by something else somewhere else. You hear about mantis or insectoid beings. There's then reptilians and Nordics. And I've just put here, Nathan, it's still wild to hear a sitting congressman discussing this quite openly. Like you have to remember sometimes, given the, I imagine people listening to this and watching this, people like yourself, Nathan, tens of hundreds of thousands of hours of UFO content consumed over the years. Some people listening to this before I was even born who get in touch with me to tell me so. Like, and we've heard so many different voice voices talk about this. This is a congressman right now who is in the middle of Congress talking about Nordics and reptilians and mantis in a completely serious way. Now, he's not coming out and saying he believes it, but he, he respects the people telling him and he is trying to process it. On the Nordic stuff, Grush said that Nordics are a few hundred years more advanced than we are, but not super advanced. I love this, right? Whatever is sending the greys is thousands of years more advanced. That's where the psionic stuff's involved, all the crazy anti-gravity mixed in as well. Um, Nordics sort of resemble humans and experiment and cross breeding with humans. There are some living among us. That makes me always think of the Robert Bigelow comment on the 60 minute show he done, where he very much says, you know, they're here now. I don't need convinced that they're literally walking amongst us. Um, and Grush said from briefings, he has had, he has had, he's talked about them. So, so I think that's what you're getting at with those comments about Nordics being involved with cross breeding. The greys are these little robotic avatar AI things, um, that are being operated remotely by something somewhere else, potentially really far away. Um, I, I do like that idea that Nordics are a few hundred years more advanced than us. They don't need to be super far down the line, just a little bit to think like right now, Nathan, if a hundred folks listening to this podcast were put on a time machine and sent back 300 years to the past, they would all come across as witches and wizards. And, you know, because of the knowledge or the way they would speak, the way they would look, the way they would dress, if they could take back technology with them, even if you could download one video on your mobile phone and show, I think even a mobile phone turning on that, that Apple logo at the start would be enough for you to probably be burned at the stake. I'd imagine, um, gone and quartered. Yeah. So send, send someone 300 years in the future and where are they going to be at? Is that, are you going to have a Nordic type race? Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, oh boy. Yeah. So, uh, it's a lot to unpack, right? Because, um, I think it is, we've got, uh, a lot of language here that has an interesting history. It's, it's a complicated history and it's been abused, uh, you know, throughout the decades in terms of, um, you know, you've got the Nazi component to this as well, which is really strange. And, you know, off putting, uh, yeah, just not, not, not very, uh, good at all. And so, but, but it's part of the baggage, right? So it's, it's really part of the whole thing that the crossbreeding and part of it specifically is, yeah, it's one of those shoes to drop that. I think it will drop not long after we get real acknowledgement of the kinds of species that are there because only because that the hybridization and the hints at hybridization had been part of the UFO lore for forever. Forever, right. For a very long time. And so to acknowledge that that would be real is, um, one of the greater ontological shocks of disclosure. Right. But, but you may recall in the hearing, I think it was Congresswoman Bobert. Um, one of the hearings where she asked about, uh, if there had been any kinds of programs like this, or they had knowledge of any programs like this genetic, uh, manipulation of, of human DNA or things of that nature. I forget how it was phrased, but they all denied that they had any firsthand knowledge of that. So, so that, that, that denial is kind of interesting in the context of these other statements. And you notice that, that in the Rogan exchange that you shared, Grush doesn't talk about hybridization at all. You know, he doesn't, he doesn't go there at all. Um, so the fact that Burleson is now sharing an exchange with Grush where hybridization is being discussed is interesting. And that tells me either that Grush initially didn't know anything about hybridization and that therefore he didn't talk about it or he did know about hybridization, but, but self edited that content. When he, when he came forward and became public, um, and maybe that was a self editing due to a certain classification, or maybe he felt that that wasn't, it wasn't the time to talk about that in the public, uh, sphere. So that that's particularly interesting, but that's, you know, it's a big part of where we're going and, and Trump's reaction. So from the X space, uh, recording, you know, Burleson says Trump got a briefing and, uh, and he was told that, you know, the Nordics had crossbred with the humans and that they were living with us. And then Trump's reaction apparently was, Oh, is Adam Schiff, you know, is he, is he a crossbreed as a joke? Cause you know, Trump has a long standing beef with shift because shift was part of the impeachment, uh, committee that Adam Schiff might be one of the, the hybrid. Yeah. Allegedly. Might be, it might be a hybrid. So it's a funny comment because, you know, you can, you can see absolutely see Trump making a statement like that, uh, you know, in a, in a briefing of that nature, but it also speaks to. Either Trump's own, um, discomfort with the material or his, his lack of belief and credibility in the, in the content, right? So he's getting a briefing about literal alien species and hybrid hybridization with human beings, and he's cracking jokes. He's not taking it seriously, at least in this one anecdote that Burleson is sharing. So that it's interesting to get a piece or picture of his state of mind, perhaps when he's getting that content, uh, you know, but, but it's part of the conversation. I think we're going to go there. We're going to go there a lot more. Um, what, what other species are we going to hear about? Certainly Nordics, I think, or it's, it's part of the lore, but it's very, it's a very strange part. You know, just tall Anglo-Saxon looking Nordic looking beings that look very human, uh, but clearly have some sort of advanced technology. But as you kind of hinted at, uh, there are the other species as well. So the grays, uh, Eric Davis mentioned the reptilians. Um, that's certainly really interesting. And, and the reptilians have their own set of baggage with, uh, you know, mythology and, and the lore of ufology and, and the QAnon ties. There's the reptilian ties into that. This subject is a minefield. Basically, if you're trying to navigate this and do it from the most cautious, politically careful way possible, uh, it going to be difficult to emerge unscathed. If you're going to start dropping things like Nordics and reptiles and gray aliens. Yeah. Uh, he moves on in the, the X space to talk about, uh, Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon telling him to stay away from the whole special access project thing. Um, as if he goes too close, he's going to get significant pushback and it will be really bad. Um, which I think we've kind of, we've touched on and talked about here that you're a sitting congressman. I'm seeing, I seen a lot of comments. I looked out, uh, I reached out and asked folks for on YouTube and patron and such, um, really short notice. So thanks to everyone who got in touch. There was a lot of folks, Nathan, whose general opinion was either really interesting to hear. Tell me more, or it's just a lot of one person passing on information. He's been told by another person and they're not presenting evidence. But again, it's, I suppose it's what benefit does Eric Burleson have coming forward and sharing this because of the optics of it, how it sounds, how it looks to people who aren't UFO friendly. Um, this could be a vote killer, you know, as much as you might have some UFO fans who are like, oh yeah, I'll vote for you because of this. Like you see all the other stuff, housing, taxing, all that kind of thing that's going on in the US right now. How does it go down when your congressman spending time in Peru looking at alien mummies, but you're perhaps, you know, getting taxed too much or the roads are a mess, all that kind of stuff, real world problems. Um, so either he's, he's genuinely interested in trying to follow this up because he thinks there's something big here. There's something to it. Or as he confused and just about lost or other comments I've got here from people where he's in on this. He's part of the psyop, psyop. He's part of the disinformation and a lot of folks wondering, is this a way to discredit Grush? What's your take on that? Yeah, well, so I think that the underlying assumption when, when Burleson comes forward with these statements is that Grush is a credible source, right? Burleson isn't going to make statements like this for the reasons you just stated. He's not going to say this stuff if he doesn't find David Grush to be a credible source of information. So that speaks to, uh, Grush's background, uh, in, in, in the intelligence community, you know, his reputation, all the things that would make a person a credible source of information to a Congress person. Being comfortable sharing that content, that explosive kind of content with the public. Right. And, and honestly, that's what I've seen from all the other Congress people. I mean, we, we've gotten statements from other Congress people who, who don't doubt. Grush's, uh, credibility. Right. The, the closest that I can think of to where there might've been, uh, an indirect disparagement of Grush's credibility was the, the Kirsten Gillibrand exchange with some of her constituents. I think she was like outside and she was talking about, you know, in an offhand kind of way, you know, people had talked about aliens and all this stuff and she was kind of laughing it off and that, that content must've come from Grush. So she kind of threw a little cold water, I think on it, that, that, that that's my read into it. Maybe it didn't come from him, but the point being is most of these lawmakers seem to be taking David Grush very, very seriously and believe that the research he's done into this, the, the intelligence gathering he's done into this is credible and worthwhile. So I totally understand the perspective that anything from anyone who ever worked in the intelligence community is suspect. I think it's okay to hold that perspective and, and to keep that perspective, uh, you know, in, in play. I think we do have to be a little cautious about information because if nothing else, right. If, if David Grush isn't an active disinformation agent or whatever, if nothing else, he's, he's a person who was trained to look at intelligence from a specific point of view, a specific framework. So he's going to present information from that framework, not necessarily from another one. Um, so I think you have to, we all have to look at the biases that people bring to the material and make sure that we don't lose sight of what those biases are because they're the lens by which they view the information. So if I can't see the lens they're using, then I can't, uh, keep that information in an objective space. I'm going to just take it at face value. Uh, so it's really, really interesting. I, uh, we've heard other statements from Marco Rubio, for example, where he's, you could even see in the interview that he gave, where he was talking about very, a lot of senior high level people are coming forward, saying all this stuff. And he's, he's visibly conflicted about how wild this is, you know, because, because we're dealing with people with incredible credentials who we've given our, our country's greatest secrets. And they're now saying things that are historically absolutely bonkers. Right. So how do you, how do you balance these two things? And I think that's the, the real challenge at work here. Um, how do we take this seriously? Um, when it, when we've been conditioned to think it's so crazy. A really fair point from Steven over in Patreon, he mentions, do you think this is going to affect what David Grush will say going forward and how he perhaps feels about this? And again, this goes, this points to the issue that we don't hear from David Grush. We don't hear from him very often at all. He's not really even that we can see on social media. I probably has accounts that he uses to have a look or, or whatnot, but he doesn't post doesn't comment. He's not doing followup interviews. Um, he's not writing articles. So it's difficult to know, but what do you think on that? I mean, based on his actions, I think he doesn't care what people think about him. Right. Um, so I think that that speaks to a certain degree to his integrity. Um, I could certainly see a counter argument that would say, look, uh, you need to stand up for yourself. If people start disparaging your name or quoting you out of context or using, uh, your name, your reputation in a way that isn't in alignment with your values. So I could see that an argument says you should stand up in that situation, correct the narrative, fix the story, make sure that your voice is being heard here. On the other hand, you could look at it from the standpoint of David Grush is actually doing things behind the scenes. He is guiding Congress people, giving them information, and he just doesn't care about the social media component of it at all. I think that that's important to keep in mind, at least as a perspective, right? We often in social media can really be caught up in thinking like, that's the whole picture. Whatever is happening in social media discussion around ufology is in fact, what's taking place in the, in the investigation of this material. When most of that work is happening outside of view, we're not privy to those conversations. We're not in those briefings. We're not part of the investigations. It's, it's taking place outside of our line of sight. And I think that probably a grand, a great majority of the effort in pushing for UFO disclosure is not happening in social media. So we shouldn't confuse activity in social media for true progress or lack of progress in, in this, in this disclosure movement. Correct. Uh, Burleson said, you know, whatever's behind this cover up, he is at least convinced that the U S government is hiding something very, very advanced. But the question is, is it reverse engineered from ancient or recovered craft, which is, which is very fair. Again, I think Eric Burleson is trying to put himself out there on a social media space with the general public to say, you know, I'm talking about that stuff. I don't necessarily believe a lot of it. He mentions the whole, I'm from Missouri. They show me state. You need to show me. He's hearing a lot. He's being told a lot. He needs to see. And perhaps he will, perhaps he won't. Um, but he's thinking about it. And that idea that, you know, there's, he's at least, he at least knows there's something being covered up here of that. He's got no doubt. But as it that like Tim Phillips said on a few shows, including my own, I've been walked in area 51. I've looked in the hangar and there's some cool stuff there, but it's not an alien spaceship. Well, what is it then? And I think that's where Burleson's like what's behind the hangar door. And I don't know if he'd be surprised either way at the moment. Yeah, I definitely get that picture. Um, and I think he's right. Look, we do need to see the stuff we do need. You know, we can't just continue to take people at their word. We do need to see some real content, uh, legitimate content that people can verify that our scientists can verify. I think that's, you know, even if we have all that, right, we're still not going to please everybody, but we're going to please a lot more people who, who need that level of evidence. Um, two more kind of out there things and statements made by, uh, Burleson on the Twitter space that I want to bring up. Um, he talks about Timothy Alberino's work and discusses around the idea of the Zodiac being an ancient calendar that predicts cataclysms, end of the world events. Uh, and when those happen, almost everyone dies, a small remnant remain and rebuild, you know, based on whatever they've got left, essentially. Um, not, not a brand new idea. Uh, Timothy Alberino, someone I've reached out to, um, he says he's up for coming on the podcast, just like other folks. I'm sure he's really busy and it's hard to get follow up responses sometimes from people. So I do try folks. So hopefully I can speak to Tim down the line. Um, but I'm going to add something else into this then, cause this second part, I rolled my eyes at, but I'd like to discuss both of them and intertwined. Eric Burleson then said, David Grush put him in touch with an individual who had talked to aliens or had aliens talking to him. He says the aliens that spoke to this individual, um, and then the individual spoke to Burleson, believe, uh, believed in Jesus. And these things said that Jesus was real. He is real and performed miracles. That stuff makes me roll my eyes a bit because I often feel that when folks are religiously inclined, they, they sort of fit that stuff in and around the UFO conversation. You know, perhaps I do it the opposite way though, where I'll say, well, this stuff in the Bible and other religious texts probably just means that UFO or something, you know, misidentified. Um, so maybe, maybe I'm being a little bit hypocritical here, but I think again, that, that whole download thing. And, uh, what, what do you call that again? You know, the guy who does the, uh, not Bijou, the guy who does the channel, Bashir, Bashar, Bashar, Bashar, Bashar was the Star Trek Deep Space Nine officer. Um, so, um, the geek enemy coming out there folks, uh, yeah, the Bashar stuff. Is it not really easy to sit and speak in tongues and, and I'm not being disparaging. I've literally seen people do these things and go, ah, and then say something random, ah, and then something random again and say it's coming from some divine source. And again, perhaps it is, but yeah, it's a challenge, right? Andy, this is difficult. Um, it's very difficult. It's very loaded material. And I think our, uh, you know, we're, we're the children of, of the enlightenment, you know, the world that we've inherited is the world that the enlightenment gave us. It's a world that champion science, objectivism, empiricism, you know, all these things that, that materialism, the things that point to the fact that, you know, our reality is comprised of these tiny little things that interact with each other. And, and that, that's how we know what, what is real and what isn't real. And so things that happen and intend to be bucketed in the realm of the imaginal are things that can't be true. And so religion, you know, not long after that movement took hold, the enlightenment movement took hold, religion fell into this, you know, fantasy bucket. And I think the West, you know, has been grappling with that dissection, uh, for a very long time. And, you know, we've seen movements that have tried to, I think, reclaim its place. Like at least question whether that was the right decision, right? Because a lot of human experience is inexplicable, right? We've, we've all had experiences that defy, uh, sort of normal rationality. You know, we've all had coincidences, synchronicities that are so strange that there's no good, obvious causal connection to them. Right. So how do we, how do we make sense of that with our enlightenment science? And I think we really struggle with it. So we're still, we're looking for models in a way that I think makes sense of all of human experience and these sorts of, um, you know, the religious experiences, the channeling, uh, you know, the, the people who claim that, you know, Jesus is an alien or that, you know, all that, all that stuff. Like it's, it's very difficult stuff to, to really grapple with because we don't have, we don't have that information that meets that standard of evidence that we'd like in our Western, you know, sensibilities. Yeah. But what if we did, you know, what if, what if we ended up talking with aliens and they were, they brought up a, a screen and said, well, here's, you know, here's first century, uh, you know, Judea or whatever. Here's this guy, like we recorded this, you know, this is Jesus. Like of course people would claim that's fake. I mean, the number there's that, is it the chrono visor, which allegedly is the time travel viewing machine that the Vatican has in its vault, which can do that. Yeah. See the Pope wearing the chrono visor. Yeah. So, I mean, it, but, but even if we had that right, how, how many people would actually believe that to be true? And so ultimately it comes down to our own personal frameworks of what is possible and what's not possible. And so when I hear people make statements like what you shared, where the guy talked to aliens and then he wasn't a believer in Jesus. Now he is a believer in Jesus. I mean, so many factors go into making that determination that I, I need to know exactly who that person is to understand how they arrived at that conclusion. You know, cause if I don't know their background, how they look at the world, et cetera, et cetera, I can't really understand how they landed there. And I think it's, but many people will just be quick to say, well, there you go. See Jesus Christianity like that. It must be the, it must be the truth and all that stuff. They're angels and it's demons. And we've heard that. And we've talked about that many, many times. I think that's a jumping to conclusions. That is a little bit, um, dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. Do that. So one of my favorite family guy bits from the early days was, um, is it like God comes down for the rapture and basically tells everyone, yep. It was the Buddhists. The Buddhists got it. Right. That was the, the ones that's like all the religious sex are waiting to find out who is the most accurate. And it's like, it was the Buddhist, the Buddhist. Um, so yeah. Um, who knows, but, um, any other thoughts on the, the burles and stuff then I think we've covered quite a lot of it there, to be honest, Nathan. Um, yeah, I think so too. I think just keep an eye on what Eric says. I mean, the guy has been bold enough to put himself out there. Uh, apparently he's thinking about it so much that he's willing to jump on an X space and talk about it. So that tells me, like, if you think about our own journeys, Andy and the subject, like you, you have that high level of energy when you're really into it and you're just willing to jump into anything to talk about it. Uh, including an X space where you don't know who's actually in the room, right? Yeah. That's where Burleson is at right now. He just got back from a conference looking at Nazca mummies and a boogosphere and he's just, he can't help but talk about it with the public. That's really interesting. So where does his journey go from here? Where do his public statements go from here? I'm going to be paying attention to that. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business. Whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at Odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Yeah. And especially when you've got such a public facing official, whose job is literally to serve the public, and he's keeping some of this stuff in the news. Because it can only be a good thing to get scientists involved in mainstream media, at least keeping an eye on it. And does that get things moved forward a little bit more, a little bit quicker? Then who knows? Hopefully it's a good thing. On that, interesting development, and very quickly some other news pieces. Brandon Fugel, owner of Skinwalker Ranch, tweeted out, It was a historic week for Skinwalker Ranch. In partnership with SEOPS, Omnitech's RanchSAT-1 mission is now fully underway. Successfully launched aboard SpaceX Transporter 14, the RanchSAT-1 mission marks a critical expansion of our space-based anomaly detection infrastructure. Operating in LEO, low-airth orbit, it extends our AI-integrated surveillance grid from Skinwalker Ranch to the upper atmosphere, detecting signals, distortions, and patterns that ground-based systems alone cannot resolve. That's a pretty cool development. I know Skinwalker Ranch Season 6, I just spoke to Thomas Winton, is wrapping up in the next week or two. But Season 7, perhaps they're going a little bit fast and furious where the franchise ends up in space. But that's pretty cool to have that kind of tech in there. It's fascinating. Yeah, these guys are doing the fun field science that I think, as a kid, I would find incredibly exciting to do. So, good luck to them. I hope they get some really compelling information. I know people have their gripes with the show, the sensationalism, the lack of, you know, sort of particulars that everybody wants. I hope we get that information. But the fact that they're doing it, they're just trying to make this work and they got a satellite. I mean, kudos to those guys. So hopefully we'll get some really good content from the research they're continuing to do. And maybe it's the first of many satellites that are going to be devoted to this topic that is more public facing. Yeah, I think even the harshest skeptics of the show. And I think you should separate the place and the lore and what's going on there to the show. I think they are two distinct things. But yeah, I think that's fair play. You know, you can't really argue with that. And also Steven Spielberg's movie with a working title Disclosure. I can't see on IMDB that it's got a proper title yet. It's due to be released in June next year. And that could always change and has finished filming. I also noticed, Nathan, he's a producer on another movie coming out called Intelligent Life. And the synopsis for that reads, an employee at the Department of the UN, United Nations, that monitors outer space inadvertently makes contact with a beautiful woman who may be an alien. That's currently in development and is a comedy romance sci-fi. So not one I don't think we're going to be getting full disclosure on, folks. But interesting little note there too. Like a look at Mindy thing, yeah. Yeah, could be, yeah. But listen, let's go to some listener questions to finish off. Thanks to folks who sent stuff in. We've shared opinion and all that as part of the body of the interview. Question from Nick then. Why do you think Trump would have received this alleged briefing during his first impeachment in late 2019? So around the timeframe, that sounds like you've got being the president going on. We are pre-COVID, but you've got an impeachment, which is a pretty big deal, fair to say, even as an outsider. And then you get this UFO briefing. Do you think there's anything to the timing there or anything you can even speculate on? Yeah, it's a great question, Nick. I don't know. Other than the president's time is very, it's very full. So it could just be a product of when they were able to get a briefing to him. But it certainly is interesting. I don't think there was ever a chance during that impeachment that, you know, Trump would have been expelled from office. So there was no risk of giving him, in other words, like classified information that he then would have, you know, taken with him, leaving the presidency, right? Not long after. So I don't know. I don't read too much into it, but I would. That's the kind of stuff that I'd love to understand from the vantage point of a person like Jay Stratton, who might have more information on that. So hopefully we'll hear more detail from him whenever his book comes out. 100%. Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. That's due. We don't have a due date for it yet. You might go on websites, folks, and see that it says this date or that date, but there isn't a date for it yet. Not like my own Atlas of UFOs, which is due out mid-September 2025, folks. But I won't get to that later on. But yeah, it would be interesting to see if there was something dedicated to, you know, briefing President Trump, the why that briefing came about. But it could be something as it was just business as usual. You know, there are still things going on that you have to deal with as much as the impeachment stuff's going on there. And that was just something that came up. But it would be good to see, yeah, definitely if Jay Stratton can shed some light on that, if indeed he was the one that briefed him. You would at least think if he didn't brief President Trump, he would have been involved in him being briefed. Barr's attack said, assuming everything about the Nordics and Greys is true and Trump or our allies announced it in a groundbreaking press conference. What effects do you think this would have on our everyday lives? Do you think it would be a groundbreaking transformation for mankind? I'll come in on this one first, Nathan. Give you a moment to think. It could go one of two ways. One, it's it's shocking and really hits people. And it's, you know, I shudder about the old paradigm shifting stuff and, you know, that kind of terminology. But I think it would have different impacts on different people. I think there are people throughout the world who I'll just listen to Holly, who had her birthday the other day. And her partner, Eddie, could let me know. And something I'd messaged to her was about, you know, living in a post disclosure world. I think there's a lot of folks who would be well adapted already and suited to to those kind of realizations. There are others who I think would panic and be scared. And then there'd be everything in between. But also, there could be that whole reaction of suspicion and distrust. Why now? Why this? Is this real? Is this another way to to control us? Are they going to go down a new world order route now and a martial law that to protect you, we have to invoke X, Y and Z? I don't know. I think everything these days is met with suspicion, isn't it? As soon as it comes out. Yeah, that's that's my two cents. Yeah, no, I definitely agree with you. And I think it'll be a spectrum of reaction. Could be quite destabilizing, to be honest, some of those revelations. And then, of course, if the the stories of abductions and hybridization are true, we may have quite a downstream effect of that kind of announcement where people will say, oh, I thought this was just a dream, but it happened to me. And how many people has it happened to? And then you could see all kinds of crazy things occur. Like, how do we test for whether someone is a hybrid or is everyone going to get a genetic test now? Is someone who's more alien going to be viewed as being suspect or going to be viewed as being better than? I mean, our human beings are just notorious for wanting to divide into our little tribes and kind of point fingers at each other. I don't see that going down if if this kind of information comes out. So we really difficult, challenging to wrestle with that. And I think it's like many have said, it's going to rewrite our understanding of human history. And a lot of us have a lot at stake in that history and understanding, you know, that we are the way we are because of certain things. And if we're told all of a sudden that those things aren't true, that could be pretty destabilizing. Yeah. And do you know what was interesting? The the Patreon and the group on there and the discord and all that are always very civil. But just on this post, it got a little uncivil, but still not, you know, toxic around the political side of things. So it still did get you'll share this is nonpartisan, you know, that's still got quite left and right. And a few folks were arguing about stuff in there. And I won't read those. But, you know, people calm themselves down. And but Byron asked what is really going on to make the needle move with these leaders, the long held and recent revelations of just how strange this all might be. And it's like we're perfectly happy to carry on with the madness and we're still waiting on age of disclosure, getting a full release. I imagine folks like Eric Burleson have seen it, but also, again, not to dampen folks expectations. We we know it's out there. We well, we know folks have seen it. We know general public members have seen it. I've done the shows on it with people who had been there. I don't think it's groundbreaking. I don't think we have no evidence. There's a lot of weight of testimony and who is talking about it as it just things like that. And people like David Grush being involved with Burleson and co that they feel, yeah, these these these these men and women telling me this stuff is enough to make me pick up this ball and carry it for a little bit. Yeah, I don't know. It's going to I think that's the billion dollar question. What is the straw that breaks the camel's back here? I don't know. Did I read recently that the UK is doing some sort of hearings where they're kind of letting people come forward and whistleblower on each one? Was that did I read that wrong? Well, it's what's that? So, oh, God, I'm going to make it that's wrong. And I hate not having the stuff in front of me, but the people involved, I think, in the there's a UFO documentary coming out in the UK. Capel Green's coming out. Capel Green, Capel Green. But there's another one as well. And the folks involved in that have basically reached out, I think, to try and get some kind of public hearing set up akin to what we've seen in the US and Brazil. Very unofficial, very low level, nothing at all. And the Daily Star, which I get, I'm just going to this isn't me being sensational, folks. The Daily Star is famous for being a 16 year old boy. And that's the way you can get your porn because it's full of topless women. Right. That's famously what it's been for growing up. It will have front page headlines like, you know, my wife had sex with an alien or. And I'm not even joking stuff like I shoved 43 Mars bars up my rectum and had to go to any. Right. That that is genuinely incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And I saw some folks try to go. Yeah. But no, no, it's not a serious newspaper. It really, really isn't. Right. It is what it is. It's a bit of a joke newspaper, almost well, trying to masquerade as a real paper. And that's not an opinion that is please go look up. That is what it is. And they reported on that and tried to make out UK hearings are going to be happening right now. They aren't. And I think I spoke online with Dan and stuff about this and other folks did great if it did happen. I'd love to see it. I don't think this would be the catalyst for it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that they appreciate that context. And the important thing there there is that it could come from a source other than the United States. Right. So there could be additional information released by the Japanese, by the Brazilians, by the Peruvians. I mean, who knows, there could be something really compelling that moves the needle on the conversation. I I personally don't think we're going to get anywhere without something like the UAPDA passing and and all of the provisions that were in that legislation getting passed and and taking effect. And even then, it's going to be a real challenge. We if you're interested in this topic, if you think there's something here, you know, there are factions within the government that want this and some that don't. And that that battle is going to continue, I think, ad nauseum. I don't know what will ultimately convince everybody, but maybe all the whistleblowers that we keep hearing about that that are waiting in the wings, maybe they'll all come forward at the same time. And that will be enough to really shake things up, particularly if more of them are very, very high level government officials. Here's some Daily Star headlines for you. Right. From over the years and monster rats, the size of cows. Yeah. Honey, I shrunk the quids that was about the chancellor being accused of being a fiscal clown. Seconds away from World War three, Russian jet fired two missiles at RAF plane. Beyonce's sister beats up Jay Z. ET invaders would wipe us all out. And here's a good one. Cops. And that's the police in the UK. Don't drive if you're blind. Right. So. Oh, and there's another one. Don't eat Christmas trees. Genuine front page headlines from the Daily Star folks. Even psycho seagull stole my dog from garden. Right. I can. Jesus. I could go on. But that's the Daily Star folks. Yeah, that's enough said. Yeah. Yeah. So, yes. The. The. Any of them. I'll pick another one just to finish up on. Do, do, do, do, do, do. It gets all very political and stuff. So, and then on this one, Kevin said, I fear it's an attempt to diminish Grushy's credibility. High level psyops, just like the recent Wall Street Journal articles. Keep digging out the truth, Andy. Thank you, Kevin. I am just chatting this through like everyone else. But ultimately then, where do you land on where this is? I know you've commented on Burleson. You know, you've got to have that respect for him coming forward. Could he be being fed this info? Is Grush being fed this information? Is something else in the background? Is it just, it is what it is? And it's, there's nothing nefarious going on. What's your take on the current situation then? Yeah. My current take is the current situation is a cluster. So it's, it's really difficult to, to parse truth from fiction here. I'm not one to be in the camp. That is anyone who was former or current intelligence community is a disinfo agent. I'm not in that camp. I don't think everybody's a Rick Doty. Um, I don't think that Rick Doty, uh, himself is a hundred percent bad person, you know, and some people take that position. I think that there's, you know, we have to use a lot of discernment when listening to this information and, and deciding for ourselves, you know, what is true, what is suspect, but, but honestly, without access to source documentation and the evidence, none of us really know what, what is true and what is false. And so a lot of it comes down to what does your gut say? You know, what are the, what are the credentials of individuals stepping forward? Do they know each other? Where are they getting their information? If they're getting it from different sources, but they're coming to the same conclusions that to me lends greater credibility to those conclusions. It's, it's a lot of hard work. It's tough to be in this field. And I think be a hundred percent confident in making assertions based on what we hear from people like David Grush. I do think he has the background for it. I was very impressed with his testimony. I'm very impressed with the hearing. Seems like a very intelligent guy. Um, but do I know him? Do I know for a fact that he's excellent at what he does and gathering all that information? And, and he did a good job there and it is indeed truthful and factual. I don't know for certain. So, um, I hope we get to the point of certainty. I hope we get to the point where we get more congressional leaders interested in this. But the fact that we do have the congressional leadership that we do have coming forward, supporting it is a very good sign. You know, you don't have people like Chuck Schumer and Mike rounds sponsoring legislation just for fun. Um, you don't have Chuck Schumer making a tweet after the president talks about, you know, the RFK files and the JFK files and there, and the Epstein files. And, you know, Schumer saying great. Now do UFOs. Yeah. You don't have somebody making those statements just for fun. So, uh, I think there is something to this and unfortunately it's going to be a mixture of people that you like and people that you don't like that have the truth. And I think everybody has to be comfortable with that. Yeah. I think the truth is going to be the truth. Um, and like you said, I think you're quite right. There may be a little bit from column A, a little bit from column B and some from columns you didn't even know existed or people that were even there. I can see. Um, I think I'm, I'm hoping in July, um, to do a little bit of a state of disclosure mid-year where things are at. Um, I think we're going to get more whistleblowers come forward before David Grush comes back out. I'd be interested to hear from Matthew Brown again soon. That would be pretty interesting. Um, this is going to go out on the 29th of June, 30th of June, depending on your platform. Folks, if you sign up to early access, you'll get it straight away. Um, otherwise it'll be out for everyone on Monday on all the platforms. Um, I wonder this week, will there be some more stuff to talk about? Perhaps Nathan let's wait and see, you know, the week will be young when people hear this. Um, lots of good folks doing good work across the UFO UAP conversation topic right now. Um, and yeah, I think Eric Burleson certainly is certainly to be commended for trying. Um, if indeed it's not all disinformation and psyop, I don't believe it is with Eric Burleson. Um, but other folks have shared their opinion and they're all entitled to that. So thank you very much. Um, very quickly folks like, uh, Nathan asked at the start, how to get a copy of the book. There's a little QR code you'll see down the bottom. If you're on YouTube here or any, any podcast description, you'll see the link at the top. Same pre-order and Atlas of UFOs. It's the first kind of look at it. It's a proper hardback book. And I'll just open up some pages. You'll see there's, uh, color pictures and maps and me writing about 34 different cases from across the world, not just the United States. Um, some famous, some less famous. Um, but the team who worked on it have done a great job. So if you want to go ahead and pre-order that, you can click on the link. Um, it comes out mid September, but pre-orders, if you're thinking of doing it, do help with advanced sales and organizations picking up more copies and getting out there. So, um, ended a month that you've got a couple of extra pounds, dollars, euros, pesetas, pesos, whatever your currency is. Um, then yeah, shell out and, um, give it to a friend, give it to someone you don't like. It's quite heavy. So you can always hit someone over the head with it. You don't like, um, normally full blows would be appreciated. Um, but you know, advertising, advertising folks. So thank you so much. Um, Nathan, I believe you've got 10 copies on pre-order. Thank you for that. At least. Yeah. Every day goes in and adds on a few more. Um, but Nathan, what are you up to right now? How can folks follow you? Yeah. So, uh, I'm doing something this coming weekend. Uh, there'll be a cab show on July the 5th at 6 PM. Eastern with, um, myself, uh, Darren King, XO Academian and James Yondoli. So, uh, the three of us will have a little round table conversation, UFOs, consciousness, that kind of stuff. So if you're into the more, I think woo side of the equation or the esoteric stuff, maybe, uh, that would be the show for you. But other than that, just still doing the same kinds of things. Liminal frame, social media, you know, feel free to reach out to me. I'm in the discord for, for those of their, you that are in these, uh, discord hit me up. Love to have a chat. Yep. Uh, Darren, uh, liminal frames. You'll see Darren XO academia over there with Nathan, uh, and James Yondoli, of course has a new show. Uh, well, a new route he's going down. He's got his UFO engaging the phenomenon, but he's got a show as I discussed with him recently on consciousness and, you know, really deep diving into that where he doesn't feel constrained by the UFO conversation having to be had as part of it. So I know many folks are interested. If you are going to check that out, you'll, I'll put the details in the description as well. Um, but thank you for supporting everyone. Thank you for listening. And I've got a funny feeling I'll be back on in the next couple of days with some more chatter. So enjoy folks and speak to you soon. My new book Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects is now available to pre-order wherever books are sold, including Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and Waterstones. Explore the UFO phenomenon through 34 cases from throughout the world with accompanying pictures and maps in a beautiful hardback edition or download for your Kindle. Links available in the podcast description below. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? 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