Dr. Heather Lynn | The Anunnaki Revelation, Elite Ritual Contact, & The Palladium Rite

Hocus pocus and abracadabra, higher side chatters doing the thing from the Sunshine State. I'm Greg Carlwood, and we have long speculated that the ruling class might be tapping into some unadvertised source of power of a more occult flavor while crafting a dominant cultural belief that mocks such ideas as pure fantasy with common people celebrating their own ignorance of unseen forces. But when you go back to the most ancient writings we have, this is exactly what they describe in a few fragments that we do have available from a highly sophisticated Sumerian society often written off as primitive. They relay information about god-like beings, sometimes hybrids in physical form, who gave them the very ideas that engineered organized civilization, city-states, and of course kingship. And while narratives of ancient alien astronauts tend to dominate the obscure corners where people actually are interested in these things, the truth is likely a lot more metaphysical. Well maybe these eternally twisted, timeless cosmic trickster knockies knew exactly what they were doing when they inspired man to organize and centralize structures of haves and have-nots, kings and serfs. Maybe the big secret is that the players in the big power pyramid have maintained a connection to these beings since Babylon right on through to today, and they are happy to let us believe anything but that. Who knows for sure, but that is definitely how I feel after reading the latest book from today's return guest Dr. Heather Lynn, Anunnaki Revelation, Hidden History, Altered States, and the Mystery of Humanity. You might remember her from a show we did just about a year ago today, largely about her book Baphomet Revealed, with a little evil archaeology on the side. But today we're diving deep into her true passion and expertise, the Anunnaki and the origins of human civilization. As for her background, Heather's undergraduate training was in archaeology and information technology, which led to a master's in history, followed by a doctorate in education from the University of New England, and a doctorate in comparative religion. You can find her books, courses, and the Midnight Academy podcast on her website, drheatherlynn.com. And it's a real pleasure to have her back. The renegade archaeologist, elite power investigator, and academic double agent, Dr. Lynn Medicine Woman, welcome back. Thank you so much for having me. It's really great to be back. And I like Dr. Quinn. Dr. Lynn Medicine Woman. Dr. Lynn Medicine Woman. I may have to start using that, but with a disclaimer that I am not a physician. I love it. So the last one we did was very, very well liked. We have a ratings plug-in on the website, and I looked at it before this, and it's still at a 4.9 out of 5. I mean, really, it doesn't get any better than that. You can't please everyone, but that's about as close as it gets. The book that you shared with me really hits at the sweet spot that I think a lot of people miss when they're talking about this sort of stuff. So I'm really excited that it's coming out, I guess, in February. And I guess to start us off, like, you really do take the study of the Anunnaki and ancient civilizations in a different direction. So if there's people listening who are like, oh, this again. You know, I've seen ancient aliens a thousand times. I've heard hours of content about stitching. Talk to us about the approach you take and how your conclusions are just so far different than the typical Anunnaki discourse that's out there. Well, I think it starts with the fact that I wasn't really interested in this to begin with. It kind of fell on me. It's like, I always joke that I didn't choose the Anunnaki life. The Anunnaki life chose me. So I ended up writing a special report some years ago about a Sumerian excavation that was going on in Iraq. And I started falling down this little rabbit hole. I was just looking into some leads and I found a lot of different bottlenecks and information. And I looked at it with this first, this lens that maybe what was going on was just a lack of transparency. I started looking into who was funding the operation. Why was it not being told to us? You know, like you would expect, there was a little byline out there, like from a PR campaign, like, hey, new excavation happening for the first time or in, you know, decades because of the nature of the area being so war torn and whatnot. And so it was just a little article. And I followed up on it. I had an interview scheduled with the lead archaeologist from the University of Manchester, and he wanted the questions I was going to ask him ahead of time. And I was like, that's fine. So before I did that, I went to my social media and just said, hey, y'all, you know, have any questions for the archaeologist? And of course, I got a lot of different questions. And a lot of them came around the topics of the Anunnaki, something like Stargates. That was a popular one. And I thought, okay, you know, why not? Well, I was naive. This was, this was years ago. It was like a decade ago, mind you. So I was really naive. And I thought, I'll just ask, you know, not not going to hurt anybody. I was completely ghosted, and really sort of disrespected after that with like, who would talk to me, who wouldn't. And I thought, hmm, that's interesting. Perhaps they just thought I was a kook, and they didn't want to, you know, bother with it. But I just had a nagging feeling. And I had gotten an email from a local who was saying, please help us. They're taking out our artifacts. It was sort of broken English. It was, it was hard to understand what exactly they wanted me to do. I think it was just because I had a popular blog at the time and whatever. So I thought, you know, this something's pulling at me. This isn't right. And I really wanted to know more. And so of course, I followed the money. And then I did end up finding that I had ties to big oil. And I thought, that's interesting and weird. And then elite families, I thought that's also interesting and weird. And so I started going down this whole, you know, you know, bloodline. So it integrated the question of say the, it was the Bush family dynasty in particular, and their connections to oil. And I just kept like researching and going down this so-called rabbit hole. And over time, I thought, you know, I'm not real sure that there's Stargates. And I'm not real sure that there's like aliens, but they sure are hiding something. And then the more that I looked into it, the more I thought, okay, well, maybe there's not start. Well, what is a Stargate? Well, first of all, before I discount this, what is a Stargate? Another thing is like, well, what would these aliens be? And so trying to just look at it and not just dismiss it outright and try to really understand what the claims were. And I just got kind of really almost addicted to it because I just didn't have any answers. And the more I looked into it, the more either outlandish the claims were or completely dismissive. It was just like, there was either, Hey, these are like aliens from this planet and they are building these spaceships circa 1960s and with nuts and bolts and they're flying around. And it's just like either that or no, there's no such thing there. In fact, there's not even alien life. Forget it. Just way different. And then the way that people would treat others who would ask these questions was also dismissive, like almost offended at the idea that you would suggest that perhaps earlier in our earth's history or prehistory that there could have been ancient alien contact. And it's like, why is it so unusual? I mean, there are papers plenty about panspermia and, you know, it's again, how are you defining alien? And so just this, it seemed like it was filled with this propaganda and all of this cults of personality. And so you mentioned Sitchin too. That was of course a big one. And I wondered, is there anything to these claims? And so I started going on deep dives into that. And I think the thing that troubled me was Sitchin, although I really enjoyed this grand narrative, you know, trying to kind of put everything together. And I love the creative aspect of being able to look at the past and say, you know, maybe what if, you know, let's, let's start somewhere instead of nowhere and just shutting down ideas. But the problem that I really came across with Sitchin was more about the cult of personality aspect of it. He also has become sort of a dogmatic figure where there is, if you go against what Sitchin says, then, oh my gosh, you're just one of them, or you don't believe. And it's now turned into a question of belief as opposed to just trying to investigate the truth. And so that was troubling as well. So that is just something that I started thinking, well, okay, how can I expand out these sources? And I just basically took a more academic approach and said, let's just look at the sources, primary, secondary. And I've been on that search ever since. And it's led me to question really terminology, you know, again, as saying something like aliens, extraterrestrials, as we've talked about before, I also do research with things like demons, demonology, like, how are we dividing these, these terms? You know, like, how do we know that an alien isn't a demon, isn't an elf, isn't a who knows what? I mean, these are very subjective terms for something that would be considered supernatural, or maybe even metanatural. And it also crosses cultures and times, languages and understandings. And so I think before anybody does anything, we have to really look at the terms that we're using. And that's sort of the approach that I took is strip it down to the bare bones and look at the phenomenology of the situation. What are people throughout time, explaining that they have experienced firsthand? What and what do we have in common with those experiences? And when you do that, you see that people, you know, 4000 years ago, and more had similar experiences to people right now, when it comes to things like encounters or visions that they may see or experiences that they have. And so those are the things that I was interested in really just trying to figure out, you know, not necessarily the grand narrative, hoping that that narrative could emerge. If I were to try to remove all of the sort of cultural symbolism around it, and look at the the bare bones, sort of take an Occam's razor to it and see what things are similar. What do we share as like maybe human universals, if we were to go so far as to claim there could be such things. And that's where it sort of brought me. And my first book was the Anunnaki connection, where I started to put it all together and say, I'm seeing some connections here, right? I didn't really have a huge like, boom, in your face, like, this is what I've discovered. It was more about, you know, trying to get people to understand the many different ways people looked at this being a little bit of a primer to so if you don't know about the Anunnaki, I would feel that this would be a good book to pick up to say, here are all the different viewpoints. And here's some things I've discovered. And I've asked people questions. And where are we going with this? And at the end of it, you know, I did come out with more questions and answers. And so I thought, I have to keep working on this. And so I have for years, and I have the new book, Anunnaki Revelation, where this is the one where I say, okay, it's been years. And I feel like I'm hesitant to say that I figured anything out, because I'm really leery of people who say, I know what the answer is, because, you know, we just don't. But I feel like I've made stronger connections. And I feel a little more confident in my position on it now. The position that's not final, but is anchoring me to my next sort of venture in research, if you will. Yes, I agree. And that is a great setup for this. And language is really tricky. It's a great tool, but it's used for mind control, because you can just use certain terms and change the way people think about certain things. Yes, Stargate and portal are very epic words. And we think of them in a Hollywood sense, but you can put certain things in your mouth and open up a quote unquote portal of communication with something by this afternoon. So like, that's a portal, but you know, people doubt these things. So when it comes to the new book, I like this quote, it really sums it up. And then we can kind of fill in all the data that makes this hypothesis the most likely, but you write, the evidence suggests that we are not dealing with biological beings from another planet, nor simply symbolic projections of the human psyche. What emerges instead is a third possibility. The Anunnaki are ultra terrestrials. These entities, if they existed, would not travel in spacecraft, but operate through consciousness, energy, and form. They would be native to Earth's metaphysical landscape, revealing themselves only in states of altered perception or through encoded rituals, such as the ones hinted at in the mushroom tablets of Uruk. This interpretation opens new questions, not just about who the Anunnaki were, but about the very nature of contact consciousness and civilization itself. This is the lens I will use throughout the book. The Anunnaki may not have been myths or astronauts, but rather ultra terrestrial intelligences that move through human consciousness, our civilizations, and perhaps even our future technologies. Well, that's well said. I'm very into it. And there's even a quote at the bottom of your Amazon author's page that says, archaeology isn't just about what we find. It's about what we've been told to forget. And I think that is the kind of thing that makes this really provocative for people like me who just want to know out of spite if I'm being denied access to some important knowledge. But what would you say to make the case that this information has been intentionally hidden, suppressed, and misdirected to obscure the real truth and the implications that are at the core of the narrative you lay out in this book? It goes so far back as the beginning of the founding of the Sumerian records. Really, it's, you know, it came about during a time where people were very different in their mindset. So like the Victorian era, the Edwardian era in England primarily. And they were elitist. England had a caste system and arguably still does to some degree. So it was very class conscious and elite and Christian as well. There were a lot of sociocultural factors at play here. So when they discovered some of these artifacts and were able to date them and particularly the texts when they dated back to pre-biblical texts, but they had biblical stories in them that kind of corresponded with the Hebrew accounts. That was sort of a problem because if you are dealing with a somewhat Christian society, then what do you do? What do you do with that information? Of course, the people who are discovering this, whether or not they had a religious reasoning or they were devout, it's really not here nor there. It's just the ethos at the time. And they were looking at it and like a, another elitist sort of position, sort of a noblesse oblique, like we know better. We're not going to crumble society by telling you this. So you don't need to know. So it's a need to know basis. So they didn't go out in any sort of amazing campaign and say, Hey guys, look what we found. We found these great tablets that talk about Noah's Ark before Noah's Ark. And they didn't do that at all. They didn't think that the people needed to know. And so they just studied them and tried to research them. And it was a very closed group. Well, that's sort of like a lie by omission right there to kick off the whole thing. And then over time, it really started to get involved more so in geopolitics. And something that if you really look at the history of the region and when a lot of this started coming to a head pre-World War I, you have figures like Gertrude Bell, or who later was called Lawrence of Arabia, he was involved. And figures who were working with British intelligence, like unapologetically, this was what they were doing. And they were working in Iraq and discovering things, but they were also called the kingmakers. And these individuals were highly influential in trying to go to Bedouin tribes and individuals and try to make alliances, put people against other people, and really redefine the Middle East and draw the geography and the maps the way they wanted them to. So a lot of this was done by actual archaeologists, very famous archaeologists. So archaeology for a long time has been somewhat tainted, I would say, with two huge things. One, the earliest, is that it was coming out of what was essentially a hobby of the gentry. It was a field of antiquarianism where individuals with obscene amounts of money, you know, literally Downton Abbey, if anybody is familiar with that, the High Clare Castle was, well, the people who owned High Clare Castle, they actually were the ones who discovered King Tut's tomb and brought all of those things back, housed them in the basement of High Clare Castle, aka Downton Abbey. And so, yes, eventually some of these things make it to the museums, etc. But you have at one point a time where it was only the elite who were able to have the time and the money to travel and to fund these excavations and exploit the people on the ground to try to look for artifacts. They would take the artifacts and they would just bring them home into what they called their cabinet of curiosities, which was more so a big room, private museum, essentially. And it was great fun. You know, hey, let's let's do this and we'll be the hit of the parties and the London season's coming up. We'll tell everybody about the mummies that we had. Maybe we'll taste a few because they did that, too. So strange times. But over time, the socioeconomic situation was changing. The war was about to happen. And when the war did happen, people started looking around saying our young men died. What are we doing? What's going on? The economy was different. And people were not so happy with those people, with the land and the giant castles. So the antiquarians had an idea that we just can't stop doing our hobby. This is what we do. We don't want to give up our artifacts. So they kind of got together and said, we're going to switch this up and make it a science. We are making archaeology. And before you come and loot and steal our loot that we've looted, we're going to donate it to a museum for the public. And, you know, so it's on loan. And so we have this whole system of the public trust then. So it started a little, you know, a little shady. And as most things do, right? I mean, it's not, it is what it is. But when you hear people now act like this is a hard science and it's filled with ethics and no, it's not. Try there. There are ethics involved. It is not a hard science. They use hard science tools, but it's still a soft science where there's a lot of interpretation left. So they have now a veneer that's been placed over the years on archaeology to make it seem more legitimate. And again, it's not saying it's illegitimate. It's just simply, let's not deny where it came from. Knowing that that's where it started. It wasn't long before you have people who are leveraging it for nefarious things like, well, spy craft. And that's a huge one at the time where now we needed to figure out at that, at that time, it was mostly, this was going on in Britain. The allied forces were kind of involved as well. This was pre-World War I and in the run-up to World War I and during and all of this time, they saw archaeology as a great way to start leveraging soft power and also hiding what they were actually doing. So you could go out there and say that you're just here for a curiosity. You can buy people off because remember the elites, they're still behind it. They still have the money. They're still paying. It's just whatever we find, we'll put it in a museum, wink, wink, you know? So they go and they see that this is a great opportunity now to mix it up with the corporate world, mostly oil, and they want control of the region. They want control of everything. And so the modern Middle East, as we understand it now, has been chopped up and rezoned and really sort of redefined by these people. And it is directly tied to archaeology. And so, and we're living in the shadow of that still to this day. Our global strife now often is tied to the way they drew the map, so to speak, and the people in the alliances that they've tried to force upon others and the people that they had, you know, taken out of power and they placed other people in power and they just did all of this as they're wearing pith helmets and saying they're finding pottery. And this is a lot of what they were doing and they actually still are doing it. And it's not even a secret. You can find, as I put in the book, records from the government in Britain itself kind of lays out all of the different things about it as though it's like, oh, isn't that a fun fact? Yeah. Yeah. It really is interesting. And I think a lot of people already have a good basis for Anunnaki 101 and what some of the key tablets say and then the council and Enki and Enlil and that kind of stuff. But the question that you kind of pose in the book is like, was this for our benefit? Because you always hear, well, they gave us knowledge and knowledge is thought to be good. Who doesn't want knowledge? But they gave us knowledge of how to centralize, like we could say civilize, but really how to centralize and power needs centralization. That's what creates an elite is to centralize around a city. And all this stuff has been framed as really great. And I'm not saying, I want to be a hunter gatherer, but it's just interesting at that time that these ideas, if they come from beings that are outside of time and can seed ideas well in advance, and it's a blink of an eye to them and they get a kick out of it. It seems like the knowledge they gave was how to create a power elite. And then you have that power elite, that 1% who is in league with these beings. And maybe, as you talk about in the book, maybe still is. Maybe one of the big secrets of history is that the Anunnaki have been giving them ideas this whole time on how to keep and maintain power. And I think that's just a fascinating idea. And it takes you to all kinds of interesting places in the book. But help make that case. Because when I think about ancient aliens, for example, the idea is so popular. Well, why? Because they put it in a materialist context. So yes, you have the unfortunate documents and tablets that are out there. So people know some of the story. But if you can twist it to put it in a materialist context, well, then these are beings that either died because their life expired or they left. So that's an old thing. Don't pay attention to that. That's an old thing. But when you put it in the metaphysical context, it could be an evergreen kind of thing. Help us understand how, like, what would you look at to say in the last 100 years or 50 years or even today that this is still like a mechanism power utilizes is connecting to these beings? You basically hit the nail on the head. Exactly. When you look at this through just a materialist lens, it's easy then to get caught up with the whole idea of propulsion. What did their spaceships look like? What do their spaceships look like? And, you know, and while I'm not discounting that because there are things that we can't explain and I'm not going to say it's not aliens in some sort of spacecraft or perhaps they are projects we are doing. I mean, that's a whole other thing in my view. I feel that there's a lot of things happening at once. But from my perspective, when I look at the phenomena itself and all of the things where it kind of ties together, again, I kind of go back to language. The first instances where you have of individuals who are sort of, I guess, communing with something other, something outside of themselves is basically what is called shamanism. So people in cave systems, you know, we get these stories that they're seeing entities, they're doing all of these things. But then how were they doing that? How were they hearing other voices? How were they communing? Of course, you could say, well, they had epilepsy. That's a very common accepted view is that a lot of people had epilepsy then. And that's fine. You could say they were schizophrenic. That's a thought too. Although there's Julian Jaynes, a Princeton psychologist who wrote a fantastic book about bicameralism, talking about how we were all kind of a little schizophrenic. And that's kind of, you know, why we're different. We had a breakdown of our brain from something that was more unified to like bicameral. So like two parts, sort of like the idea of the master and the emissary book, that sort of idea. So there's some interesting things that could say, well, of course, we're just hearing voices as like an epiphenomena of the brain. It's simply medicalizing it. So enough said. Fine. But, but it's still something happening. It's still going on. And it was something that changed the course of human evolution and human history. So even if it was just an epiphenomenon, it's just impossible to discount the importance of the things that we find in the cave systems. So the first musical instruments, jawbone flutes, like flutes that are actually built on a scale so that you can have harmony and art. In fact, one of my favorite examples is if you go into this particular, I think it's Leskow. It may not be. So correct me if I'm wrong. But there is a cave system that featured a room with a lot of different animals who looked like they were half done. And they thought forever that this was just maybe a practice room, that they never really finished it. Or there were some weird ones with like deer with three legs, five legs, many legs. And they thought, this is just strange. Until not that long ago, maybe about six years ago now, seven years, an archaeologist went in there. They didn't have any electricity and you're not really allowed to go so far back. But he had a special privilege to be able to. And he went back there with a torch, as they would have in the past. What he saw, he was floored because the flickering light of fire played off of the walls and the texture so much that it looked as though those animals were moving. Yeah, original animation. Exactly. So that showed that they had what's called persistence of vision. It's that phenomenon that, you know, if you draw a little stick figure and you on a pad of paper and flip it, or if you have a a flashlight and you whip it around and you see it trail. I mean, that's something that we have. But not only did they have it neurologically, they leveraged it for something, for communication, for art, for story. So that's high level thinking. That's abstraction. And that is what separates us from a lot of the other animals. Most of the animals, they think maybe corvids are a little bit different, that they can abstract out and stuff. Research is still out. But arguably, this ability to have a narrative and a story and to put these ideas together are really what make us human. And it started in the caves. And did that just come from us just kind of having like a thought? But then the question is, what are thoughts? You know, the ancients believed that we were empty vessels and that what we had, this is a little negative sounding, but that we were empty and that basically we were just a vessel for the passing spirits that would just inhabit us. And so, you know, if you remember, Bob Lazar recently had sort of come out and said a little something that that was what he had heard. Didn't go into it in much more detail, but kind of mentioned that thing. And so it's not a new idea. It's a very ancient idea. It also is tied into the mummies where, you know, you see the elongated heads. That's another one that's like, oh, there's proof of aliens. And it's like, well, the reason that individuals had that tradition was because they were afraid that with the soft opening of the baby skull, you know, it's very soft. The bones aren't fused yet. They thought that that could enable demons to enter. And they wanted to bind that and make sure that they were protected. And eventually that formed their skull. And so I'm not saying that's the case with every skull ever found, but that is a clear case of why they did it. So it really draws us back, though, to this question of spirits, like disembodied voices. Yeah. And the modern day elite still like putting some stock in this. Very much so. Very much so. And the face of it has changed. So this idea of being inspired. So the ways that ancient people were able to be inspired before involved what anthropologists call orgiastic activities. So things like drum circles or actual sexual orgies, things that involved people getting together and sort of ginning each other up and getting excited and being on rhythm. Sort of like burning man, you know, something that was really just getting together and then we all kind of see the spirit or what have you. That's been established in shamanism. When you go, though, to, say, Sumer, where we actually start history by recording it, you have something similar, but it's only a small group of people that are allowed to then commune with these so-called voices or these other things. We could call them spirits. Spirit carries a religious tone. So again, I like to call them discarnate entities. Entities with no body. Whatever that looks like to you, whatever you want. But these discarnate entities, you see now in Sumer, as they are building a civilization, not everybody is in touch with these entities. Some people are, and those people are called the priest class. It's a whole different class of people. They're the priests. And these priests were priests because they knew the language. They knew the words. They kept that language sacred so that the other people, the profane, shall we say, didn't have the right language. And so only they had the language of the gods to communicate. So they were the intermediary, which carried great control because imagine you could say, well, you know, the gods told me if you don't do this, then that. And so you get that middleman. So you have a priest class and then you have just this power elite. Now we could call them the technocratic elite. Earlier, you could call them magicians, the magi. So you could call them priests, magicians. What is magic, right? Magic is a technology that we just don't understand. You know, if we have a technology, so we could now just call those the technocrats. So it doesn't really matter. It's the, again, the underlying phenomenon here and the different names. And we're living with the same thing over and over again, but just calling it something different. And currently, yes, the way that people in positions of power are trying to play on the periphery of creativity and the so-called fringes and try to be inspired for now what we call it like innovation. They do certain things. I mentioned Burning Man. That was popular for a while with a lot of people going there, too. It's a little less popular now, I think, because what happens is when it becomes popular, then the people who are who fancy themselves thought leaders start to say, oh, it's the hoi polloi you're in. Let's go to something else. Right. So, I mean, you could say that about anything. But that was sort of one venture. And through that, a lot of newer people, younger people, open-minded people have been using mostly psychedelics or different sort of substances to try to then get in touch with some sort of innovative spirit or something. And again, what you see in just the most casual accounts, particularly with things like DMT, these are not just like visions. They're often entities. They appear as entities, then communicate and then give ideas. And so, again, we have the same thing over and over again, where somebody somehow gets into a trance, whether it be through, I don't know, hearing jawbone flutes and drumming and who knows what, all the way to Sumerian activities, which we weren't really sure of. We know they did a lot of drinking with beer. They were very big on beer. But that's not necessarily going to have the same sort of psychedelic effect. That was the area that I started to venture into as well, because my interest has been in the Anunnaki and that civilization in Mesopotamia. So that's what led me to look into what other ways might the Sumerians have altered their perceptions to perhaps get in touch with these discarnate entities who they called the Apkalu. And that's when I discovered there had been discussion, if you're familiar with the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, a very popular book. In the beginning of that, the author discusses the Sumerian record and the possibility that they were also engaged in using psychedelics. The unfortunate part is he doesn't really, he never really went back to flesh that out. And so I started there and looked into that and that took me down another path that I was surprised that it wasn't necessarily mushrooms by themselves, but other things as well. And I did find evidence to suggest that the Sumerians were in fact using substances and doing so in a ritualistic way, very different than just, you know, recreational. And they associated them with the Apkalu, the entities. And so here we have a similar thing happening over and over again across time and distance and cultures that you have people doing things to alter their consciousness. They get in touch with some sort of entity or they perceive it to be an entity. They gain knowledge that hadn't been there before that's somehow innovative. They take that knowledge, they share it with humanity, but that's also power. And depending on what they do, often what we see is they use that power over the other people who don't have access to that information. And then we see more systems of control built. Right. And it just keeps going. And if you think about these entities as having their own agency where they can appear to anyone, like they might only selectively appear to people that they see having power on this plane. But you have some great pictures in the book of the Anunnaki and the tablet drawings. We've seen a bunch of times the pinecone, the handbag, the wristwatch, but you do connect it to what you call the cult of the poppy and a ritual you call the hool gil rite. Hool gil meaning joy plant in Sumerian. And I think you're right. We'll throw some images on the screen. But when you look at the wristwatch, it is a flower, a poppy flower in particular. And yeah, there might not be anything in the handbag, but the pinecone, you know, everyone's always associated that with knowledge. You have this weird hybrid entity holding a pinecone out as if it would like inject it right into a person's third eye. And when you have the wristwatch connection that it's poppies, it's like, yeah, okay, here it is. And then I kind of was thinking about the whole continuity. You talked about the priest classes. Yes. And then from the priest classes, you get the secret societies and the Freemasons and this group of people that have a real esoteric metaphysical flavor to their organization that is also a network of power. And what do you do? You kill off cultures that have similar shamanic traditions. You outlaw the use of these substances for common people. Check. You suppress meditation practices in the culture you control. Check. And insist that academia operates in a materialist box from a position that consciousness is all within the physical brain. Check that box. Destroy a lot of the records, you know, and take the ones that are out there and spin it into ancient aliens and the physical context. And really when you get the Freemasons and these esoteric orders like that is just a continuation to me of the priest class. You're not thinking in a religious context because this isn't really religion in the mainstream sense. It's something way stranger. So this is where your book gets really, really wild. And I got to ask you about this, but you write about a dialogue that you had with a colleague of yours and you say, quote, I've been having conversations with people, people who operate in the shadows. What started out as what I thought were innocent exchanges turned into something else entirely. I was invited to events that were out of a Stanley Kubrick eyes wide shut style film. These were parties and medieval castles complete with rituals that I once thought were the stuff of conspiracy theories, but they're real. These people aren't just LARPing. They're power brokers, practicing magic in the truest sense of the word. Their rituals aren't just for show. They're about exerting influence, claiming divine rights and solidifying their power through ancient bloodlines and even genetic research. Wow. I mean, that is the most provocative paragraph in the whole book. If you ask me, I mean, actually there's a couple other contenders to be honest, but you know, I put so much stock in the Diana Pasolka story. I really liked American cosmic and how she got taken in the invisible college and shown all this stuff. And that's now kind of a third rail to like the disclosure movement. But this is almost like you have a parallel story, but you aren't just taken into like ufology. You're taken into what we both kind of think is the real meat of power and high strangeness and all this stuff. Can you elaborate on the kind of things you're talking about there? Yeah. Yeah. It's something that I've been, I've danced around this topic a lot in interviews over the years. And I decided to finally sort of just put it out there in print and digital, however anyone consumes it just because I think it's time. It was difficult because, oh, well, a couple of things. One, I'm a human. So when somebody is telling me something and they're giving me information, do I really want to start like giving up that source or do I want to keep getting that information? That is, you know, so I'm like, I still want the information, but at the same time, to what end? Like, what is the end? I have no end game. It's just like, I'm just wanting more information. And so I've had sources and kept sources and, you know, behind and whatever. And I never wanted to be that person. There's two things that I didn't want to be for sure. And that's one of these people, this is, it's like, I couldn't help but go down this road and I'm a little mad about it, but I couldn't help it. I didn't want to be the person that started saying like, woo, like if you just meditate, you know, the aliens will come and do whatever. Cause I thought, oh, come on people. You know, there's so many grifters out there saying people who say, pay me like 10 grand to come to my house and like, look at lights in the sky and get a certificate that said, you can't not naming names, just naming situations. No names other than Steven Greer. Yeah, you said it. So that kind of thing, like it just annoys me. And, but at the same time, it's like, wait a minute, there is this spiritual component. And, and at least that's what a lot of people start thinking and believing in it. They're acting on it that way. So I couldn't help, but look into that direction. Another thing I never wanted to be was that person is like, I have these sources, but I can't tell you who they are. And then it's like, all right, you know, David Wilcock, I hear you not naming names, but you know, those types of people where it's just annoying. And I just never wanted to be that. But then, so I couldn't say anything because I don't want to give up the sources, but at the same time, I'm like, so I just danced around it. And I was like, I'm going to come off as one of those people anyway, forget it. And who am I any, I'm so, this is so unserious because there's no way I can present myself as somebody who's like serious when I'm literally on ancient aliens. So I'm like, at that point, who cares? I'm just going to say what I'm going to say. And if someone goes, she's lying or she's a kook, whatever, this is like, join the club. Everything's crazy. Everybody's crazy. I'm at the point now in life and whatever, where I'm just like, I said what I said. So I thought I'm going to put this in the book. And even to the peril of some of the people that see, I had edited it because I had put some other things in the book that I didn't realize I was being taken even in that conversation. So still to this day, I find myself like in the company of people who I think are legit. And then I find that they're not. And I'm, I thought I was overdoing that because like, I was all naive, like, Oh, whatever. And then no, it's still, I just, cause, and I think it's cause I just can't believe that so many people are just on the take. It's just cause some of this stuff is so little, like you suspect people with bigger platforms maybe, but you just don't always expect it with like smaller platform people. And just to think that, what are you being paid or is it something like that? Or, and I found that no, a lot of times it's literally just ideology, like, like believers and people who are just in it for their own reasons. Often though, more often than not, I have come to find that they're in it for, I won't go so far as to say like Epstein level, uh, black male type things, but those types of things were basically getting a compromise on people. And so it attracts people who are just in it for self-gratification we'll say. And, uh, that could be money or it could be otherwise. And so, and then another thing that got me was Tracy and what happened to her. If you're, if you, if anybody, I wasn't going to bring that. So let me just say this. I wasn't sure if I should bring that up because the last time we did an interview, you left a comment in the plus members comment section of the website. And if it's plus member stuff, it's behind the paywall. I don't generally bring it out. I mean, that seems kind of wrong to do because people are writing it in the context that no one can see it outside of a small amount of people, but then it comes up in the book too. So I feel like now we can talk about it, but so that comment you said, so somebody, one of my listeners said you reminded her of Tracy or him of Tracy. And you said, we were connected and it wasn't until later that I learned we had the same informants and insiders, some of whom are practicing magicians. I can say without a doubt that the world of the occult is tightly linked to spy craft geopolitics, and even UAP quote unquote disclosure. It's all about bloodlines for them. For the record, I am not suicidal. Obviously that's provocative in the book. You talk about this a little bit, but clearly it can be dangerous stuff and we don't need the exact sources that you have. I would not even ask that, but I am curious about like the chain of events. Like, were you talking to another academic colleague that said, Hey, uh, you should come to this party. I mean, how do you end up at a place where you're seeing some stuff that is disturbing to you? I will name names where I can't. I really, cause I really want people to know. I just want the shape. I want the shape of the narrative. I'm going to give you the shape. And what, what happens is people will be able to Google things. And like they, I think a lot of people did in the, um, behind the paywall, I was able to, you know, help people find so that I didn't name the name, but people could easily find it and Google. So I'll give everybody what they need to find it. And then they can make those connections and I didn't name anybody. So, but so it wasn't an academic. The first time I knew that we had this connection, Danny Jones's podcast, if you're familiar with that one. Yeah. Who isn't? So I happened to be listening one day and I saw a gentleman on there and, uh, didn't know him, but he was talking about some things and I just had it on the background and he started saying some very strange, different things that I, that were resonating with me. And then he started talking about someone he called the Londoner and I was like, okay. But then he was describing who it was and he, he didn't say the name, but when he was describing his interactions and what happened, I was like, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. It was a person who was very high up in, um, elite circles and, uh, they're part of, um, the MI6. They are part of intelligence organizations. They work with billions of dollars in arms deals and different things. They're connected with a lot of like very serious issues, like beyond like ancient aliens. This is like, it's very serious. And I couldn't believe, like I had known this person. Okay. And I had been talking to this person for a number of years. They contacted me, not the person on Danny Jones, the, our common, the Londoner will say they had contacted me and I don't know why. I think it's just assets. People want to either seed you with ideas so that you could put something in a book for disinformation, or they want to, I don't know. I think everyone just wants to keep tabs on other people. And so there was that. And I kept that line of communication open because it was kind of fascinating to me and he wasn't not nice. And so, and then at one point he offered to get me connected to officials in Iraq to do some work there. And I thought, sure, buddy, whatever. And then, but he always came with receipts and connections and I'm like, oh, okay, this is for real. And so, so then I, I know this person knew this person for a bit. And, uh, when I heard this guest on, uh, Danny Jones talk about him, I was like, this is him. Wait a second. And so I had to reach out and contact, uh, him. I get, you know, for namesake, I'll just say, if anybody wants to know, it's a, a, a gentleman by the name of Jason Giorgiani. Um, Jason. Yeah. So Jason, I contacted Jason and was like, I guess we have a mutual friend. And, uh, he's like, oh really? And so that opened up a conversation between he and I. And so I confirmed that we had that mutual source and it really shed a whole new light on different things based on what Jason had gone through. So again, if anybody, you can connect the dots by looking into Jason's story, we'll, we'll say that. And what I can say is, uh, as outlandish as some of his claims may have sounded or some of the things in his book, they're very on point, very on point. And so, um, there's that because the world is a crazy place. He'll say that the Tracy situation. We also had those connections, this same individual also with individuals who are associated with some different occult groups in France specifically, a keen interest in bloodlines. Now, a couple of these individuals are dead now. Uh, they were just older, but these were people who were obsessed with, uh, tracing their bloodlines. So that was interesting. But over many years, I found that essentially there is a core group of people who work with a lot of NGOs, a lot of them that are connected to, and, and I want to point out too, not necessarily in this just like, hey, I'm Catholic kind of thing. It's because Catholicism, I like to say as someone who was raised Catholic, it's sort of like saying the word America, like in the Catholic church, it was a, uh, theocracy is a state, the Vatican, there are people of all leaning, all beliefs, all knowledge everywhere. And so just to say, you know, it's the Vatican, even in that group kind of could carry baggage and apply, imply things that aren't necessary. And so if, when I'm saying that the individuals are working with the Vatican, it's not necessarily like some sort of pro Catholic thing or Christian thing. It's very much their own geopolitical agenda that they're doing behind the scenes. And so it's a lot more complicated than that. And so those individuals are working. At the end of the day, I'll just say, I've been confused for many years now. What are they doing? What is their goal? Aside from, you know, I could just assume it's, well, it's the new world order, right? So I've been having this question for a long time, trying to figure it out and trying to figure it out. And it's so literally chaotic. You can't seem to figure out who's on what side of the equation. They're promoting things that seem anti their own interests. It's just wild. That's when I was referred to another individual. I happen to, when I'm studying the occult specifically, fall into the path of chaos magic specifically, which I hadn't really been too aware of before. And finding that this is something that people take very seriously, this is an actual practice. And so the idea, if it's hard to figure out, it's by design, we'll say. It's because there is value and utility to creating chaos in their view. And that chaos is important to bring about their new system. And so it's so easy to look at things as like left, right, black, white, this, that, or whatever. And in reality, they want that chaos. And they're doing it through chaos magic. And so I would highly recommend if anybody's interested in understanding sort of the underlying philosophy of these power brokers, or at least a portion of those power brokers and what they really take seriously, it's chaos magic. And which is kind of a newer invention too, in terms of occult practices. And Tracy was on to a lot of different things. And that was something that I don't want to disrespect her memory and the situation involving her passing. I will just say that she was on to a lot of different things. And it's not always apparent what they were. It wasn't necessarily just Baphomet. It's there's so many other things that have to do with geopolitical stances and people involved. And, you know, whether they were involved or not, I can't make those accusations, you know, libel and whatnot. But I just know that there's a lot more to that story. And so it, of course, made me a little cautious, more cautious than usual, but also more interested, as crazy as that sounds. So that's another reason too, I started looking more into Baphomet. At first it was, you know, because people ask me, why are you like researching things like the occult and aliens and the Sumerians? Like these don't go together, right? I've had that said to me so many times and it's like, oh, if you only knew. And I don't know that they go together. Like I'm not claiming that any of this is real. I don't know. I know what real is. And real is when something is real enough to affect things in my life or in the material sense. And so if the elites who rule things, so to speak, believe it's real, we will suffer very real consequences for that. So it's real enough for me. And so I stay open-minded to all of these things because I'm highly interested in what people believe and especially the people who have control over our circumstances. And so I started looking into some things about Baphomet. And initially I wrote a little about Baphomet in my first mainstream published book, Evil Archaeology, which was just sort of like a fun little tome about supernatural stuff. And in that book, I referenced the Texiel hoax and how the Freemasons were associated with Baphomet and, you know, how it's a misnomer and this sort of thing. Fine. I just hit on it a little bit and talked about that hoax. Again, it came up in Baphomet revealed. And I took a little deeper dive on it and I still couldn't find great evidence to suggest that the Freemasons were actually, say, worshipping Baphomet. I know Baphomet is extraordinarily misunderstood. And that was a big reason I wanted to write this little book to sort of say, hey, this is how Baphomet came about. Let's not get distracted by one thing or another. Let's focus and like really try to figure out what the new version of Baphomet is. Well, in the book, I discussed the Palladian Rite. And that is a rite of Freemasonry that was speculated about. And it was the premise of everybody and their brother thinking that the Masons are worshipping devils and Baphomet and this sort of thing. And if you talk to Freemasons, you know, especially if they, you know, 33rd degree or they're not in like an order, they may just say that's silly. Right. And to them, it is silly because there's a lot of orders above the 33rd degree. There's a lot of groups doing a lot of different things. So on one hand, yes, Freemasons are just guys in your town drinking punch and eating cookies and having camaraderie, but not all of them. And this is why it's important to understand the differences between certain orders, certain locations and the history of it all. And so I really started to look into this claim a little further because it's really, really shown to be a hoax. And so I couldn't find anything about it really. And it is the thing that sent everybody off into thinking that Freemasonry was just like crazy devil worship and that was it. And so this happened in Paris. There was an account that was just gory. Basically, they were accusing these Freemasons of worshiping Baphomet. And they said that there was this like woman who was going to appear that they sort of worshiped to and that she was the informant and they were going to have her appear on stage. And finally, the guy admits on stage to everybody that this was all a hoax and he was doing it to make light of the Catholic church because all these Catholic people were there and the priests and whatnot. And he just kind of was like, aha, the joke's on you that you got all stirred up in a frenzy over this and it was all lies. And so what was interesting though is it didn't seem like lies in the beginning. Of course, good hoax wouldn't. Some of the claims did seem a little outlandish. And then he said it was a hoax. But that whole thing was just a nice, clean, like wrapped up in a bone narrative. And it's all hinging on the idea that in France, there was the Palladian order of the Freemasons who decided two important things. One, that they would be androgynous, which if you know anything about Freemasonry, they're very much anti-woman being a Freemason, let alone androgyny as a concept at all. It's about fraternity, brotherhood. Now, you do have not accepted groups like the co-Masons. They do allow females in and it's co-Masonry. But they're not free and accepted from the Scottish Rite. That's the difference. So free and accepted, still no women. Women get to have the Eastern Star. And that's, and a lot of people are like, oh, the Eastern Star. It's really just pretty milquetoast. It's not, it's a distraction. So women just are not allowed into Freemasonry still in that way. So the idea back then that they would allow a female in and let alone a female, but like that it would be like the leader and that this whole order was about literal androgyny and worshiping the devil and that devil being represented as an androgynous figure like Baphomet, that's what it hinges on. And it was outright, no, that's not a thing. Edward Waite, who was involved in the Waite terror, he was an occultist and extraordinarily intelligent and great writer, great historian, and wrote a book about all of the French devil worship. So he had a whole book on the devil worship in France because it was a hot issue at the time. And it was right as the Taxil hoax was going on. And he, and again, fantastic researcher, he's usually looked at as a really reputable figure in occult literature. And if you read his book, and he does go over this claim of the Palladian rite, he goes through, he analyzes it, and really just assures us that it does not exist, that it's still just a hoax. Okay, interesting. So I'm still not convinced because France is into some interesting things. We have a lot of interesting things happening, even in the world stage. There's a lot of connections to places like Amiens and there's a lot of weird things going on. So it's been in the back of my mind, like, yes, I have said myself, hey, it looks to be a hoax. This is what's going on. And funny enough, I happened, I'm a museum director by day, very small organization. And in their library, there was a huge donation of Masonic texts because the museum itself is in an old church that used to be the church where President James A. Garfield preached. President James A. Garfield was a very devout Freemason. Like he was very, very important in Freemasonry. He was so important that for one particular reason was because he solved some important math problem that was like a Pythagorean issue that, I don't know, like I'm not a mathematician and I don't play one on TV. So he, this conundrum, this mathematic problem that had eluded people since classical antiquity. And it's very much in the interest of the Masons to figure these things out. Part of what you do in your craft is it's looking at, you know, math and geometry and whatnot. Well, he was able to crack that code and still to this day, if you just look up a Wikipedia or any generic information about that president, that's his big claim to fame as an amateur mathematician. So there's a lot of this James A. Garfield connection. And so the Masonic Lodge donated a bunch of James A. Garfield books and such. And I was looking through them and I found in their encyclopedia, before the Taxial hoax, okay, so these had already been printed, an entry describing Palladian Freemasonry. So I thought, wait, the whole idea is that it doesn't exist. And the Freemasons say it doesn't exist. Edward Waite's like, I looked into that, it doesn't exist. Well, this had been printed. Edward Waite would have had access to this. Like this is a, this is just a, like a Freemasonic encyclopedia. There was a Scottish Rite dictionary. We have all these books from before him that were printed and, you know, it's, it's in print. I have pictures. I've, I'm looked, I have them in my hand and he would have definitely been able to access this. This wasn't some really strange material. This was basic, like Freemasonry, Scottish Rite 101 for people who were already accepted. It said in there two things. It has the Palladian order and it has the description of Palladian style Freemasonry where it actually says it is an androgynous order and it's an, it's a free and accepted rite. So it is accepted in Scottish Freemasonry and it's in France. And they, and so that is my biggest lead right now because I have dates and names and people and places and where this thing started. And it's seemingly unapologetically said that, yeah, this is, this is a thing. This is what I'm working on as we speak. This is something that I'm doing currently and I'm trying to really put the pieces together to figure out what is going on because everywhere says this wasn't true, but this is, I have the papers. I have the, I have the books. The books are there that says it. So in that case, the whole idea that Baphomet was just a hoax, that whole thing was just a hoax now is questionable because there are now maybe the accounts were a little, when you read the accounts, they're kind of cuckoo. Like somebody will say, oh, there are Freemasons who were gaunt and their eyeballs were falling out as they were worshiping the statue. It's like, right. But at the same time, there's something there. And so, so if that's the case, that says as of now, there has been, maybe still is, I mean, I don't know why not, but there at least has been an androgynous Freemasonic order that is free and accepted, located and starting in, in Paris, but still operating very much so in France. And one of the things that they exalt over everything is the idea of chaos, chaos magic. Later it's called chaos magic in the 1970s. But the idea of using chaos for magic, the blending of all sides and having something androgynous as your leader and hoping that that androgynous leader actually is in form female. And so that's where I'm at now. And if you connect the dots, which I am, and I'm going to be presenting this very soon on my website and YouTube, if anybody's familiar with the current, I guess, chatter about Brigitte Macron. Yeah. Yeah. Which I was going to bring that up, but I was just going to say, you know, Candace Owens is obviously going on and on about this and she feels like she might be getting into something that's kind of dangerous. A couple of people out there getting into dangerous things and finding out about it the hard way lately. But story there to me is not that Brigitte was born a man perhaps, but the story is their ages. The story is that she was like in a position of authority over Macron and he was just a boy. And yeah, I mean, who is still talking to the romantic interest they had at 14? You know, almost no one. So something is up. It's very strange. And then like putting him in a position of presidency where maybe the real president or maybe the real power is somewhere else. And then you have this strange connection. Yeah. I mean, go say what you were going to say, but that's what I was thinking. No, that's the story there. And it is the fact if she was born a man, it doesn't it only matters insofar as that they're not just that they're so hiding things. Like, why not just say, hey, it doesn't matter. Lady Gaga was accused, so to speak, of of being a man or something at one point. And during an interview, I think it was Barbara Walters. She just looks and is like, yeah, so maybe I have a dick. I don't know. I don't know if we can say that on the air, but you know, it's OK. But I mean, so just laugh it off to say it doesn't matter. Who cares? I'm who I am and take it or leave it. But the fact that somebody is hiding that and hiding everything and that things are just really strange and his connection more so with like Rothschild banking and a lot of different. I don't know much about that. Macron and Rothschild banking. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He he was tapped as like the story goes as he wasn't that bright that everybody knew that he wasn't really able to be in the position he was in. But he was basically handpicked and pushed through by the Rothschilds and nobody could say anything because it's like the Rothschild boy. And so he he's been you know, there's a lot going on there that's suspicious. And so the question is like, why? And so I'm circling it. I'm looking into some things. I've had some leads again where it's always going back to France. And I don't know why that is. It's like no offense to the French, but there are a lot of occult connections there and a lot of connections to, you know, ideologies that are sometimes inherently violent, like the French Revolution and ideas of extremism or or what have you. And so globalism, this sort of thing, power. I mean, there's a lot going on in France. And I think that's something that we need to look more closely at. At least that's what I'm doing. And so, yes, it's a strange way to get around like like all these points of interest. But Baphomet kind of leads to one thing to the other. And yes, it does have geopolitical angles that, you know, I think some people just aren't ready to look at. Like you said, Candace Owens is doing some interesting work, you know, going down these like directions. But it probably is difficult for somebody maybe in her position to and her belief set to come across some stranger information and say, hmm, that's definitely weird. But she does like explore it. But I explore things from a way weirder perspective. And then it kind of we meet around the we kind of meet like, hey, you're here, too. Right. Oh, yeah. Well, so Anunnaki, Baphomet, who knows? Very interesting. Very interesting. All right. Well, I am taking taking you a little over the finish line here. But yes, I do think you are over the target. I think that when it comes to the narratives that are out there for so many alternative things, you and I gravitate to being on the same page about where people should be looking, where often they have blind spots. And we obviously have a lot of still unanswered questions and pieces missing to our puzzle. But I think it's a little more complete than some of the folks out there. And anyway, I guess give the people the links of yours. Tell them about the courses. You got a new season of the podcast coming up. All that good stuff we like to leave people with. Yeah, you can find me at my website, www.drheatherlynn.com. It's drheatherlynn.com. And you can find me on YouTube. Just look for me by name. Always put the DR. It's not a vanity thing. It just keeps me from being parsed with the... There are a lot of Heather Lins out there, and they're doing very different things that I'm doing. So Dr. Heather Lynn, just for a differentiator. And basically, yeah, my courses are on there. I have a new set of courses coming up in October. The sign up for that will be at the end of the month. I'm doing an Anunnaki course again. That was pretty popular. And then I'm doing one on Nazi occultism. And so that's a good one that we're going to be looking into deep, deep dives on the Nazi occult connection and archaeology. And yeah, I have a new project that I'm launching too called The H-Files. And that's going to be dossier style. A lot of the stuff that you don't necessarily want to publish in like a mainstream book, things that are kind of more niche and about like, you know, the conspiracy history, sort of geopolitical, more dangerous stuff. And so I'm going to put that somewhat behind a paywall. Some of it will be free, but some of that juicier stuff that could get me killed. I mean, if you're going to like read into it, like at least pay me a few bucks to like earn the right to like. So that's The H-Files. And yes, The Midnight Academy is on YouTube and that's starting back again. We have some really cool guests. I'm so excited for that. And I got the new studio. So that's coming up to this fall. So lots of stuff. And I'm on Ancient Aliens again. So tune into that show and see me talk about all the weird stuff we talk about there. So a lot of fun. Inject some of the, some of the truth in there. I like it. Well, another top tier interview. I would say I really had a good time and I hope we talk again when the techie, magicie book comes out in the future. I won't say what it's called, but I love it. All right. Well, take care. Keep doing what you do and be safe out there. You too. Thank you so much for having me. All right. Look at that. The return of one of last year's most popular guests out with a new book with another one on the way. I get why she was so well liked. She is fun. She has a good sense of humor. She is, as she says, an academic double agent. She has the knowledge that they have and then some, and she understands academic professionalism without being shackled to the academic narratives. It's a perfect recipe, really. It's another episode that I did hold on to probably too long. Production has been slow in the studio and I am really thinking that I need to do something else when my time there is done. But either way, literally this was recorded September 12th, two days after the Charlie Kirk thing, but I didn't want that to derail the interview we had planned. And when it comes to her book and her general material, I think she adds a lot of great supporting evidence to what we might call some of our hunches. She really does make me think about ancient aliens as a psyop. It had to rise to dominate the conversation over this stuff because there has to be some sort of context to put it in. So you just make it your show, amplify it, churn out a hundred thousand episodes and make it basically all the history channel plays. And ancient aliens is great for them because even just the term implies physical beings, astronauts that either died or left, meaning that that phone call is over. Like that whole relationship is done. It obscures the notion of consistent or sporadic spiritual contact. It's a great little hack for them. If spiritual contact is the sort of thing that they really want to hide. And I believe it is. I also think about the framing of conversations that we used to have about the civilizing beings often described as civilizing trickster beings, which I do think we could even take that further and say that they're not just tricksters. They're actually quite negative, but this whole idea that they lifted humanity out of the mud, elevated the human condition. I'm not so sure anymore. It used to feel pretty obvious to me that civilization was an improvement over whatever it was before. But if you think about it a little more deeply with an open mind, how much of our mental construct about that sort of life, a life without civilization, a life without governmental structure, how much of that is colored by essentially a form of hunter gatherer propaganda. We've unpacked Native American life before and the idea of cultivated abundance, not just scraping by. Even the term gatherer sounds like you're combing through the landscape, searching for a few berries. It invokes a sense of scarcity. It definitely invokes a sense of like always working to meet your needs. But you could say hunters and cultivators, permaculture experts, maximizing abundance, shepherding the growth of plants and animals, fish in particular, based on those early settler reports, talking about so many fish in the Hudson River that you could basically walk across them to get to the other side. That doesn't sound like hunter gathers. That sounds like pretty complex, observation of nature, and then cultivating abundance. That's the term I always use. I don't know a better term, but they're not dumb savages, you know, but just zoom out with that perspective and say that maybe some arconic beings whispered in the ears of man to form a hierarchical structure, stay in one place and structure their system under a monocrop annual agriculture rather than perennials that always provide. You know, it's all stacked against abundance, really. Suddenly you have feast and famine, boom and bust cycles, and haves and have-nots. Worker classes and parasitic elite classes, maybe they're still getting their ideas from these entities, and maybe nothing has really changed since the time of Sumeria. Just being told what to build, furthering industrialization, furthering centralization, mass pollution and exploitation of the earth and of man, going from stewards and shepherds to value extractors, the commodification of everything, the creation of money and war. I don't know if these are human ideas. And then, you know, some people come along and they try to tap into these same entities as previous generations and they become the technocrats, further centralize everything, further anti-life exploitation, leading us to what? A centralized hive mind, emotionless, heartless, logic-driven AI dystopia, much like the grays seem to be a product of, funny enough. It all gets pretty provocative. You can see a through line there that, even though I'm grossly oversimplifying, I think is kind of true. Critics often say that the conspiracy-minded like myself are attracted to reducing all of complex history down to singular ideas and narratives trying to pin all of our ills on a single group controlling everything. But whatever, it's in the mix. I'm not saying it's the only game in town, but it is a game. I just thought she was super interesting and very candid. Man, some of those personal experiences along this journey. I think I said this in the interview, but she starts to feel like a dynaposulka for an occult flavor. It's very interesting. I also mentioned this, but I made her a plus account and she was very engaging in the comments and she took advantage of being able to share a little more without it being as open as the first hour is. And that's a beautiful thing. I hope our dynamic, our relationship continues on. I would love to have her be a guest that comes back pretty frequently. And that all has to do with how much material she continues to churn out. Seems like she's going to be pretty active. And I guess I would say even the plus show today, it went to some pretty dark places. We talked about some of her common occult sources that she shared with Tracy Twyman. And for the plus people that heard that my most interested supporters, my most engaging listeners, let's say, well, you know, my income is dependent on you guys and what you think. So I probably should say that I maybe got a little loose lipped and overshared a bit. I got a little swept up in the spirit of her being so candid and I hate to be so vague now, but it's just the way the show is cut. I don't mean to tease the rest of you, but I think there is more to know about the stuff that I was talking about when Tracy died and my name was brought into it. People did start just showing up coming out of the woodwork and telling me stuff. So I passed along some of that stuff. It's still rumors and hearsay and speculation, but it was pretty triggering to the estate for what it's worth. And I could totally understand a spouse wanting to shut down conversations about things that might or might not have happened before they were even in a person's life. But I can't help, but be curious about that one particular rumor. And it has made me think a lot more about the whole concept of Ascended Masters or walk-ins or even the Antichrist. I don't think about the Antichrist very much, if you can believe it. But I guess I would have thought that they might arrive from space on a rock similar to Cadmus or how Patrice Chaplin described the Lucifer stuff. But what if it's more like a group of people perform rituals and coax a certain type of spirit down into a body that appears to everyone else like a normal, regular birth, a normal, regular human? We already know the snapshot of the cosmos at our time of birth has an effect with the natal chart and all that. Isn't that kind of an uncurated calling down of a spirit that has certain qualities? What if you can do that more intentionally? And even more so, what if there are rituals that can have you basically bringing in some very powerful spirit that has a huge impact on the human story, a larger than life character? I mean, think about the speculation around Baron Trump. Is he a giant Nephilim drawn down, a time traveler? I would never harass the guy, but it's still the sort of thing that gets me intellectually curious. But I also want to say that we talked about that other guy who I canceled the interview with, and she was pretty bold in what she was saying about going to jail for raping children. Well, I personally heard that it was just having child porn. I didn't want to interject at that time. But of course, you know, also being a card carrying Nazi leader, I don't know. I haven't really read the criminal charges. She seemed pretty confident in what she was saying, but I would just add allegedly, allegedly, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know all the details, but even just possessing child porn is enough for me to say, maybe I can just interview someone else on this subject. Go with God, sir. Best of luck to you, but I can't get involved. So really good stuff in this one. Very happy to have done it. I apologize if the timing wasn't great for her and we didn't promo the courses when they launched earlier this month. You know, timing is important. People do interviews because they have things to promote. So please, please, please tell her you enjoyed it and dive deeper into her stuff. She's definitely someone I would like to stay in touch with and see rise to the top of these sorts of fields. That's really all I ask. Who cares about YouTube subscribers or notification bells? Just give some love to the guests that resonate and sign up for plus. If you want to hear the second half of all my interviews and higher side news, I mentioned the long tail on getting shows out. I'm honestly getting a bit frustrated at the studio to tell you the truth. The owner actually fired the majority of the staff that I liked and worked well with and the people that I developed a good rhythm with and understood what I wanted in the show and all that. Now, several of the upcoming interviews I have in the pipeline started off with really frustrating energy, dicking around, trying to connect to the guests and get the sources mapped to the right stuff for like 40 minutes while I'm sitting at the desk, staring at a person being like, can we start this thing? I already am asking for two hours of their time. It sucks starting in a place like that or having to do an interview, not seeing them on screen. Just a lot of logistical, technical shit that is getting under my skin and making me realize that I probably overcomplicated the whole thing with the studio. Of course, if I reverse engineer the logic tree of the whole thing, the key issue is my kids being two and four. And I don't want to annoy the non parents with this sort of personal shit, but they are harder to control now than when they were younger. And Florida gets so damn hot. It's hard to find something to do with them for sometimes almost three hours, my wife and I were just feeling pretty rundown. I feel stuck in the studio for the next six months. It is what it is, but I have some creative solutions in mind, and I'm just going to try to produce the best stuff there that I can in the meantime, and make sure that I'm ready to hit the ground running with the next phase. When I get my freedom back, I'm usually smarter than this. You never prepay for such a long commitment, but the discount they gave me really sucked me in and I'll be doing the show until I can't talk or walk anymore or think anymore. So what's a year? Anyway, I apologize for any drops in quality that might come in the next month or so. It's frustrating because I'm ready to actually do more solo stuff and I have some great ideas and some lengthy notes, but the main show needs to be on solid ground, kind of coming off the assembly line with ease, with a good repeatable process so that I can be freed up to do some of these extra things. Well, we'll get there. Thanks for sticking with me. As for the meetup calendar, let's take a look tomorrow, that sweet, sweet Halloween evening. We have one in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire for people who want to spend their Halloween thinking about THC at the observatory bar at the Mount Washington hotel. I love a hotel bar. If I'm in a new city, I don't know where to go. I'm looking for a hotel bar. Anyway, Oakland, California, November 5th. Remember, remember November 6th, we got Rancho Santa Margarita, California, Laguna Beach beer company, November 7th, Tampa, Florida, Coppertail Brewing. Think I'm going to be there. November 8th, Woodstock, Virginia at the Woodstock brew house and also November 8th. Oh, that's the exact same listing. And then November 10th, Eden, Terrence, Auckland, New Zealand, Gail Brath's ale house. Now kind of a bit of the THC lore. It's always going down at Gail Brath's ale house. If I'm ever in New Zealand, how can I not go? And then, wow, you're not going to believe this. I don't even know if I'm going to try to pronounce this, but we got one happening on November 19th in Helsinki, Finland. Wow. Jim Chesner is rolling over in his grave, wishing he could be there to school you all on the box saga. And the fact that Helsinki is hell itself, man, when these kids get older, I really am thinking, as I initially intended with the calendar, these can be international family vacations for me on the company dime. And all I have to do is go to one thing and the rest of the week, I could do whatever. It's compelling. It's compelling if they let us travel for much longer. But anyway, I love to see it. The calendar seems full. It seems like people are having a good time with it. Hiresidemeetups.com. If you want to meet some like-minded locals and have a good time yourself. All right. And I almost forgot, actually, the last episode review, we usually do this in the opposite order, but the antidote guys, Jeremy and Greg, Greg and Jeremy, well, they were not too popular. 4.2 at the end of the day, pretty low. I actually liked that interview because I think Jeremy has a lot of unique info to share about the Israel-Russia relationship. And I found some of the history there to be pretty interesting and off my radar. I don't hear a lot of people talking about that. It's all about U.S. Israel and then U.S. Russia. And it's like, well, what about this third side of the pyramid? Maybe Israel's playing us all. I wouldn't be the first one to suggest that. But to me, that was the real value of that interview. But some comments seemed to be pretty critical of Jeremy being Jewish, which does kind of bother me. We don't get to choose our heritage. He seems to be able to subtract himself away from that and make honest assessments and be on the level. And I don't think he's a crusader of any kind. He's criticizing his own. But for some, that's not good enough. Anyway, others, I think, had friction with those guys' assessment of Trump versus their own assessment. Some said they were just way too mainstream Democrat, which I didn't really pick up on either. But I'm not really going to argue. That's not exactly my bad. I would have thought it was a solid B. I would have thought that was fair. But it seems like the sentiment puts it closer to a C minus. And ooh, I haven't liked a C minus since I was out of the school system. I definitely don't want it now. Well, we had a really good streak going there for a while. It was pretty strong. Professor Jang, Richard Willett, Chris Knowles, Richard Grove, all really well received, all in a line. And I think Dr. Lynn will put us back in the green. Let's hope. I think this topic area is a sweet spot for a lot of you guys. I know it is for me. So I'm pleased with it. And I guess it's a happy accident that it came on Halloween, especially if you are watching and you see her background set up there. Very appropriate, very gothic. Oh, and I was also going to mention something about the music. I've been getting more people saying that they really like it and are asking who's making this song or that song. Hey, if it's on the show, I write all of them. I write the lyrics to all of them. And then I play with AI tools until I get a song that fits my taste. People have mixed feelings about that. But the reality is when I commission songs, they can get very expensive. And then when I let artists put their songs on the show, I've gotten copyright strikes because sometimes artists get deals and then their back catalog gets you a copyright strike because I'm not going to remove it from a two-year-old show. So it just created more headaches, even though I want to support artists who like to get their song out there. It's just not practical. So this is what I do. And it's funny because when I play around with the AI music, I'm just so disenfranchised with modern pop music sounding so robotic and electronic that I'm reverting to AI tools to make music that sounds more instrumental and authentic. Weird world, weird world we're in. But anyway, all that is just to say that I do plan to get these songs up on the website in a place where you can access them easily if you want to. When I was doing a new song, a new AI song for every show that got really tedious. Now that I'm going back to songs that cover broader, bigger themes of the show, they really should be up there. If you like the intros, well, those are one-offs. And I know that my intro song is also probably longer than it needs to be. But the fact that we don't have any ads and we get right into the meat of the topic, I hope it's not annoying to have a one-minute song start us off. But I will get those closing songs in a place where you can access them very soon. Today, actually, I did get to dust off the one that I made for Dr. Heather Lynn last time she was here when I was doing songs for every single guest before my creative engine started to stutter. But anyway, let's play that. Let's call it in here and just move on. Enjoy yourselves out there. Take a break from the heaviness of everything and have a good time this weekend. Okay? Cheers. I've done my part. Your move, Anunnaki influencers, technocratic telephoners, and cult of the poppy participants. Your fucking move. She enrolled, but she didn't buy in. She went to class, but saw through the spin. Got what she needed, and got out again. The academic double agent, Dr. Heather Lynn. The professors say keep it intact If you find something anomalous in how you're gonna act Today you'll learn more outside of the circle You can go out on your own Leave behind fancy credentials And crushing student loans They won't fund your studies If you go against the grain They got no cash for excavations Professor said intact And how you gonna act To class, but saw through the spin Got what she needed, and got out again The academic double agent, Dr. Heather Lynn That was nice If you're here You might see when the students they joint Once you're here The jackass But there are many Ne £30 That person That person I has to buscar I am There somebody Do somebody Mm There your Job