Episode #108 Who were the Moundbuilders? Practicing an Integrated Science with Global Reach? The Randall Carlson Podcast

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So if you're in the mood for something truly craveable and nutritious, try any of Aloha's protein bars. Grab one at your local grocery store or head to aloha.com. This is Cosmographia, the Randall Carlson podcast. Gentlemen, this is Cosmographia, the Randall Carlson podcast, the legendary mythical episode 108. We are here, 108 episodes, guys. This is a magical number, right? Here we are. Congratulations. Should be talking about the moon, but we're going to actually be talking about inches. Round shapes. Yeah. Round, Randall has more on the mounds in the Americas, but on our show, Brothers of the Serpent, we've had a guest on for the past three episodes, Martin Green, and he's done amazing research in the UK on the hinges and some of the formations there. And they look so similar to the stuff that Randall's been showing us. I think Kyle can pull up some images. We've got the Thornbrough hinge, which Martin has been showing us a bunch of times. Let's see, Kyle, pull it up here. And it's just, I mean, you can see the similarities. The raised ring, you know, openings into it. And this one is actually the central one in a larger complex of three. This is all three of them, so you can see the one we were just looking at is in the middle there. And then the one in the far, in the back still has trees on it. Did you go back? These are all over the landscape there, including standing stones and everything. Yeah, look, just to call attention to the cars down there. Yes. For scale. In the road. Left corner, yeah. Now, that's a major piece of work there. And then you figure that that's only one-third of it. No, less than one-third, because you've got the causeways. Yes. With the embankments. So, and what, do you have any of the, does Martin give any of the data on these as far as dimensions, diameters of the rings that I guess he has? I was just thinking we were talking about the ones in Ohio you showed were 250 feet, some of them, 300 feet. Mm-hmm. Well, I don't, yeah. Looks like it could be almost that big. Did he tell us, like, the scale on any of these? I don't think we talked about that. So, mostly he's been looking at correlations with constellations, which is his, the series is called Megalithic Star Map. Uh-huh. Star Maps, because he's basically saying that this is an Orion's belt configuration. And he has all kinds of stuff where he's connecting it and showing you that there are other stars at other sites. Mm-hmm. Connect this. It's really amazing work that he's done, very detailed. Um, and then, of course, there's the correlations with sites with Devil in the name. Uh, the Devil's Arrows, which is a site that's near here, near to this one, uh, is associated with it as well. And the Devil's Arrows are a series of standing stones, tall, narrow standing stones in a field. And the story on those is that the Devil stood up on How Hill and threw stones, you know, to cause destruction. So there's this connection with, uh, rocks falling from the sky and causing destruction. And then you have these circular features and Brad, right before the show is like their craters. I mean, dude, look at that. Well, I mean, look, you've got, you've got an upraised outer ring. And didn't you say that in that, in the one circle, uh, now the orientation of this, that we were looking, when we're looking along the axis, what direction were we looking there? Uh, the, as far as I remember from the maps, he was showing us the, um, the long direction of them is basically east-west, but not quite. Sure. Okay. So was the tree ring in the east? I think that, man, do you remember? That one's to the west? Yeah. I can't recall. Yeah, I'm sorry. I could, we could, in the meantime, we could find it up on, yeah, I bet you could. Yeah. I would be interested in that. And, and of course, a comparative analysis of the dimensions and the metrology and so on would go along. And I'm going to show some examples of that tonight. Hopefully we'll have time, uh, because I think that could go a long way towards building the case that there is some kind of cultural connectivity here between these various, uh, structures and things that we're starting to find showing up all over the world, which of course then would require pretty much a complete rewrite, rewrite of history. Right. Well, it's, it's, could it, I mean, could it be, uh, like a, a shared event that causes this kind of stuff, right? Rather than, I mean, the connection maybe would be a global event. Right. So it would certainly think so. And, and I would think that would be a major piece of it, but when you get down and again, we'll look at some more examples, but we're starting to see some interesting, uh, numbers showing up on a relative, like we found last episode when we started noticing the number of thousand and 80 showing up in the dimensions of some of these structures when they're measured in feet. Right. Right. That is weird. Yeah. I'm sorry. I, yeah, I'm sorry that I don't know the measurements of these. I'm not sure that he. Let me share real quick. The devil's arrows. Devil's arrows. Wow. So there may have been a bunch of, there's only three now, but if you go through and Martin has done this, if you go through sort of historical records where people were writing about them, there were four at one point if you go, and then if you go farther back five. So it's possible, uh, that there may have been as much as seven. He thinks it might, they might be the Pleiades. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How interesting. But also there's the story that it's, you know, the devil through these stones. Uh-huh. From the top of the hill. Yeah. And I think he showed us, he showed us one with a person standing there for scale. Yeah. I couldn't find one on the internet. They're enormous. So in the previous picture, we see either what I'm going to presume is a sunrise rather than a sunset. Uh. Yeah. And the shadows, I mean, I don't know. It's either, I can't quite make out the caption there, uh, but it might even, might even say. Coral Bridge in Yorkshire. Uh, yeah, I don't know what it says. Something about the North Road. The North Road. Okay. But they made them look like obelisks in that drawing, that painting. Yeah. Well, I'm noticing that, yeah. Yeah. Is it possible that they were... Could they have been obelisks? They may have been square. Yeah. I mean, look at... What, what kind of rock is it? It's, it's some kind of either limestone or a sandstone type of rock. And, and, and we were debating this on the show, whether these have been eroded into it after it was stood up here. And then we're looking at another place called, uh, Robin Hood Stride, which is a natural outcrop. Supposedly. Supposedly. And the very top rocks have this feature. Hmm. So, well... Perhaps it is. You know, I think the rainfall in, over the British Isles is relatively acidic. So, if those were limestones, it's very possible that they could have eroded considerably. Uh, and that could even actually be a way of estimating how long they have been exposed to the atmosphere. And we have some interesting studies. I've got a dozen or more studies that have been done on limestone weathering rates in a variety of environments. And, you know, like, for example, and we probably talked about this, some, uh, studies of old tombstones, uh, that might be 200 years old. And by studying the amount of erosion, because the, what makes them so useful is that they've got a date down. The date is going to be essentially going to be the date that that rock was placed out in that weather, that environment. So, and also now you've got inscriptions and so forth that could give an indication of the degree of weathering and actual removal of surface material. So, there have been a lot of studies like that. There have also been studies on, uh, what are called, you know what a navigation dike is, where you run large stones or something, bermed of some kind in a river in order to narrow the channel, because you narrow the chain might be like a shallow area where a boat might ground out, you know, bottom out. So, you create these dikes going out into the river and that steep, that channelizes the water and then makes it deeper, right? So, there have been studies where limestone boulders have been used as navigation dikes. And they know, for example, when that dike was built, what year and maybe 30 or 50 or 100 years later, they might remove, they've done studies where they've removed some of the boulders and been able to look at the degree of rounding and so forth that has occurred and determine how many inches have been removed, for example, by this, the flowing water of a river as compared to an environment that might have 40 or 50 inches of rainfall per year. And they've been, they've taken cubes of limestone and sat on the roof of the Smithsonian and left them there for decades. It's highly polished, perfect cubes of limestone and other samples of rock too, I think. Set them up, put them up on the roof and have left them there for decades. Maybe they're still there, I don't know. But then by studying the amount of removal of the material, they get a measure of the, the erosional rate. So, what interested me in all of that was applying that to the study of the erosion on the Sphinx. Yeah. Which is limestone. And that's something we'll save for another time because we're talking about the mounds. And what struck you guys, it's interesting that I had no idea you were going to be talking to this, what's his name, Martin Green? Martin Green, yeah. Martin Green. So, I had no idea you were going to be talking to him when I thought it would be great to start diving deeper into the North American monumental earthworks. But now it's, and I could pull up and show you in a minute here, and I will, like the correlations between Newark, which I've always thought is an interesting name, right? Newark. Yeah, Newark. What's the connection there? Yeah. And, and I'll, as an aside, I'll, I'll mention it, well, and Brad will confirm this for, for years now on these trips, we've been taking note of the places that we have been visiting that are named in one respect or another after the devil. Yes. You know, we, I mean, we've been, a long list. Yeah. Listen, visited a long list of satanic sites. If somebody wanted to, they could probably make a case that we're secretly a satanic cult. Yep. Just trace their movements and they keep going to places named after Satan. Yeah. Well. Pretty clear what they're doing. But see, here, to me, what strikes me is the high correlation between these sites and the type of forces that created those sites. Or more, more often than not, something catastrophic happened there. You know, the devil's punch bowl, right? Clearly something catastrophic happened there. And it did. I mean, we know that for a fact. Yeah. Devil's Canyon as well. The one. Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a catastrophic flow for sure. Yep. That's. Devil's playground. Yeah. Devil's playground. Now, you know where that, you remember where that was? That was on the floor of Death Valley. At the bottom of a dead lake. Ah. Yeah. You know, most people don't realize if you go through Death Valley that there, that, that once it had a body of water in it almost a thousand feet deep. Think about that. When you're driving, next time you're driving through one of the most desolate places in North America, one of the lowest places and hottest places in North America. Right there, you're, you're driving on the bottom of an ancient lake bed. So these hinges in, uh, that, that Martin has been showing us are all, a lot of them also are in the basin of a glacial lake. Like there's this huge area right there, a big flat. It's very fertile land. And it's the bottom of an ancient glacial lake from the last, the last ice age as well. Uh-huh. Well, you notice, remember from our last episode, I showed you essentially where the, where the mound complexes are just south of the ice sheet. Like in Ohio. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They aren't, they are not up under the ice sheet because I assume if there were earlier, earlier ones, they would be erased by the ice sheet. Yes. And if they were in the valleys in the immediate, during the glacial meltdown phase, they would have been washed away in floods. So to me, that's a pretty strong argument that they, that it was built in the aftermath, you know, that somewhere, you know, I mean, the conventional dating is around 2,000, 3,000 years old, but now we get to Poverty Point and what was that around 3,500 and what is that in, in Egypt? Is that the middle kingdom in Egypt? 3,500? 3,500 years ago? Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. Because 3,500 BC would be 55. That's, that's even pre-dynastic, right? Yeah. Pre-dynastic, the, the beginning of old kingdom. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I, I'm not convinced that, um, that the, uh, dating is going to be correct. Well, that's weird to me that there wouldn't be any mounds where the ice sheet was if the culture was living after they were gone. Why shouldn't there be mounds? Wait, wait, wait, say that again. If the culture that built the mounds was around long after the ice sheets were gone, why wouldn't there be any mounds where the ice sheets were? Well, this is true. The fact that they're not where, where the ice sheet was kind of indicates that maybe they were around when the ice sheets were there. But not, but I mean, outside the margin of the ice sheets. Right. Yeah. And then, of course, that begs the question of, well, when we go back to the last interglacial, I mean, who knows? And, and there, in fact, there's just a new paper that's come out, and I haven't read it yet, but it's basically questioning whether or not, or the extent of the, I would say, mid, late Wisconsin interstadial. Late Wisconsin, well, Wisconsin, if we go from the Emian, which is ended about 103,000 years ago, usually the date given to the end of the Emian, and the Emian is usually invoked as the penultimate glacier, the post-penultimate interlude that was similar to the Holocene. So, 8,000 or 10,000 years of relative warm weather, in fact, maybe even warmer than now with higher sea levels. And then around 103,000 years ago, the Emian came to a fairly rapid end, and the last phase of the Wisconsin Ice Age got underway. Now, the question often asked is, was there a period in between the, the, the end of the Emian and the beginning of the Holocene that was an interglacial? And, and most of the opinions is, no, there wasn't. However, it's pretty much accepted that there was an interstadial, meaning that at some point in there, the ice retracted considerably compared to what it was at the late glacial maximum. That period appears to have been roughly 30, I mean, around 26 to 28,000 years ago to about 40,000 years ago. What was the extent of that is controversial, and here's the reason why. There are studies that suggest that, say, in that 30 to 35,000 years ago, there were forests, the area around Hudson Bay was forested. So, if that's the case, then where was the ice sheet? If there was an ice sheet. Well, that's an important issue, really, to me, because in trying to put together a lot, a much more detailed larger frame chronology, it's important to know. I mean, if, if that period, say, between in the 30 to 40,000 years ago range was similar to now, we could expect sea levels would have been up. Also, the time constraints in which these changes occur has to be constrained, because if we've got a period that's nearly as warm as now, 28,000, 30,000, 35,000 years ago, it means that a whole, everything's happening a whole lot quicker. You have to feed up everything. Then it also creates the question of, okay, what might have been going on culturally in those periods? And, you know, if, if most of the ice melted away in Canada, there may have been, you know, lots of people inhabiting that area, for example, or Northwestern Europe. But then the question becomes, when the ice returns, how much destruction does it do, or obliteration of any previous cultural activity? So we have that framework, you know, all this thinking about what's going on with mound building and so on, we have to kind of consider in that framework. And then realize that, well, there have been other periods where we had intervals. And were those intervals, did anything happen besides what we assume would have gone, like we talked about last episode, foragers? Well, foragers built Poverty Point. And how plausible is that? You know, if you go back, if you haven't seen that last episode, I would highly recommend anybody listening to go watch that again. And I'm going to do a share screen. Well, let's, let's clear this up first, because I knew I was getting this wrong. So 1550, so 1500 BC would be new beginning of the new kingdom. The new kingdom, 1500 BC. Yeah. The old kingdom starts at like 2600 BC. But there was a middle king. There was. Yeah. And that would end at 3500 BC. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There was an intermediate period. There's always a couple hundred years or something. But yeah. Yeah. Well, it's good because I'm trying to be good. I want to try to get a comprehension. Okay. What's going on over there and what's going on over here? So in other words, middle kingdom, middle kingdom ends, according to Google, 1782 BC, approximately. Okay. 2040 to 1782. So then there's a, you know, an intermediate period between that and the new kingdom, which starts at 1550. Uh-huh. So is there anything environmentally that happened between? Yes. Or in there? That's the question. Because there's also a break in between old kingdom and middle kingdom. There's a couple of hundred years there where everything falls apart. Uh-huh. Yeah. And I think they gauge it based on whether or not upper and lower Egypt are united. Uh-huh. So if they're considered separate countries with different kings, then it's not one of, it's not the kingdom, the full kingdom. Right. But that's what starts the dynasty. So, temporally, what's the correlation in between that transition from old to middle kingdom, you said? Yeah. And the more widespread Bronze Age collapse. Hmm. I think we're talking about... That's what I was going to say. Yeah. You were in the 1200 to 1500 BC for the late Bronze Age collapses. So... So that fits in that window, doesn't it? Right there at the same time. Yeah. Because Egypt was included on that list around the Eastern Mediterranean. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They call it this. So it's the reunification of Egypt... ...is what starts the middle kingdom. So they unify, that's the old kingdom, then they break apart, then they reunify, then that starts the middle kingdom, then they break apart again, and the Hyksos rule the place, then they defeat the Hyksos and kick them out, reunify the country, and that starts the new kingdom. Uh-huh. That's the accepted timeline. So that timeline then suggests that the collapse of the old kingdom and that hiatus of a couple of centuries then correlated in time with the rest of the collapse around the Mediterranean, the so-called Bronze Age collapse. Yeah. Which clearly, to me, suggests, you know, something climatic, something environmental. I mean, certainly, I know there have been studies that suggest earthquakes occurring, but would earthquakes affect that big of an area? And could they just be second-order effects or something else? Could they be second-order effects? Exactly. Yeah. Interesting questions. Okay. And somehow, I think those questions are tied in... I think all these questions are kind of interconnected. Yeah. You know, I don't think that this idea that, you know, well, first of all, the idea that there are nothing more than graves, that doesn't hold up under examination, even though there are burials, like we talked about last episode. There are burials, and in some cases, those burials were original. In some cases, they were intrusive. But that does not negate that there was a more involved purpose behind the building of these things. And that, again, you know, not to keep bringing this up, but it is very similar to what Martin's been telling us about these hinges and mounds and, you know, passage, they call them passage graves or passage tombs or temple tombs. In the UK, it's very similar. The burials are sometimes considered to be intrusive. You know, there's like... Right. People have been buried in them. So does he, in his research, does he have examples of other passage graves besides New Grange? He's shown us a bunch. I can't remember all the names. So you're not taking notes? We're recording a podcast. The best I know you can take. Okay. All right. Well, then I'm going to do... I'm going to do this share screen here. My name is Mackenzie, and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed. We had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at GoFundMe.com. That's GoFundMe.com. GoFundMe.com. This podcast is supported by GoFundMe. And this is a really nice photograph. It's taken... I think it was in the 1940s, but it's looking out over Newark. You can see that the ditch, of course, has been largely filled in. It was originally much deeper. And the mound around it, the circular mound, was much higher. So, you know, obviously when this thing was young, when shortly after it had been first built, the relief would have been much more impressive and dramatic. And then here's another view of it that I took when we were there. And again, the mounds have, you know, worn down by three or four feet. I think the ditch or possibly what could have been a moat has been filled in by a similar amount. So, again, the relief isn't as dramatic as it would have been. And then we have Aveberry. And like we talked about in the previous episode, you know, here we have this circular ring and moat structure here. And there are apertures, openings, just like we saw at Newark and other earthen rings. And this one was interesting because it also included a ring of stones as well. So the whole structure at the beginning included a mound, a moat, or a ditch and the circular, the stone hinge. Which makes me wonder if this is where, is it possible that the existence of these things is what started the tradition, the modern, I guess, fairly modern tradition of burial in the first place. Like standing, putting somebody under the ground next to a standing stone. And then we're still sort of doing that. We're still doing that. Like, well, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we bury somebody in the ground and then we put a stone marker. Yeah. And so what I'm wondering is, did it actually start the other way? We find these places. These places are considered places of the gods. So we bury our dead there and they have standing stones in them. Similar with the pyramids, like this must be the place of the gods. You bury people there. And then that turns into a tradition of building these monuments to bury people. And nowadays, burying people and standing stones up. In a sacred. In a sacred place. Got a church there. And it's almost like. It's just accepted that these are burial grounds. Well, that's. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not their original. Right. That could be. Again, I don't. I don't know the answer to that. I'd never even thought of that before. And I thought I had thought of everything. But apparently I haven't. You're saying it's kind of a circular thing. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Of course, this is burial because there's standing stones and there's. Yeah. So. So do you think that's possible? That's what gave rise to circular reasoning. I noticed that pun. Yeah. It's a circular thing. Yes. Circular. Circular reasoning. Oh. But yeah. The comparison here is pretty. Pretty stark. Now, Newark is. You know, it was a larger operation. It involved more moving of more earth. Of course, the thing is then. You know, when you look at Newark. Yeah. You had this whole other part of the complex. Now, that's. Now, they're doing some moon ball there, too. Yeah. Moon ball. A putt putt golf course there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're right. Some. Yeah. Well, that's one of the reasons, actually, why it's been preserved from development. You know, there's not houses and roads and streets here because. Some point it became a golf course. Well, it isn't possible that some of these. Ones that are in the UK, it's the circular part that's been preserved, but I mean, could they have squares connected to them as well? They're just I mean, people have been living there for forever and building things. Well, yeah. And I think we tried to show in the previous episode that, you know, there was actually like streets and stuff that follow the same routes of some of the causeways and so on. So there's still remnants. What did they call it? What is that? A. What's the word? Starts with a P. Palimpset. Palimpset. Thank you, Brad. Palimpset. If you got a chance there, Kyle, could you look up that word? Pal, P-A-L-I-M-P, Palimpset, Palimpsest, Palimpsest, Palimpsest, yeah. Yeah, there's another S in there. There's another S in there, Palimpsest. Oh, Palimps, okay. It's like overlay. Yeah, it's like overlay. Ghostly. Yeah. Yeah. The most famous one is that one in the Temple of Sedi, the first. The most, I think it's the most famous Palimpsest. Oh, really? Yeah, because it looks like a helicopter. Oh, right. Yeah. Star Wars, hovercraft. Yeah. And a tank or something. Yeah. Yeah, so a manuscript, typically papyrus or parchment that has been written on more than once with the earlier writing incompletely scraped off or erased and often legible. Or two, an object or area that has extensive evidence of or layers showing activity or use. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, that's kind of what it is. I was looking at aerial photographs of the area around where I grew up here. Rowan was over and we were looking at some of those. I had aerial photographs from 1945 up to, I think the last ones were in the early 80s. And they were taken about every three to four years. So, I had those. I put those in a PowerPoint show and you could go through successively. And I tried to more or less get them at the same scale. And you could just see, you know, it's very subtle, but you could definitely see the landscape changes. And then it gets to, well, 1954, there's a lake. So, between 1945 and 1954, it's very similar. You see a farm to the north, a farm to the west, and a farm to the south. And then a farm across the lake. There's these four farms. So, the first four or five images, you see those farms. Then you get to, like, 1954 and there's a little house that shows up alongside the lake. And that was the house we lived in. And then you go through. And then in the 1960s, you see about a, over the 60s, you see about a dozen other houses. And then a few more in the 70s. And then it gets to the 80s. And it just, all of a sudden, what had been a two-lane gravel road becomes like a major, you know, major paved road. And then you get to now, and it's completely, you know, you can only see remnants. It's like the old gravel road now runs through a series of people's backyards. And the reason for that, presumably, was because when they divided the property lines, they let the property lines run down the center of what had been the gravel road that had been there for 100 years, right? So, now these people's backyards, and if you didn't know the gravel road was there, you wouldn't have never, never in 100 years would you see it. But if you knew that the gravel road was there, you could still see the faint traces of it showing up literally in people's backyards. And I thought, this is, I think, an example of a pallet set right here. And we've got that going on is that it's almost like this overprinting. And you have to see what's under sometimes several layers to see kind of this ghostly outline of what might have once been there. Yeah. Can you go back to the previous picture? Sure can. Can you imagine if our civilization collapses and people a couple thousand years from now find this site and they're trying to figure this out? Yeah. Well, you know, they're like, what are these marks all around these circles? It's writing. Yeah. Well, probably those won't survive if it's just grass. But, you know, is the golf course going to leave an imprint? Yeah, good question. But, you know, with technology now, we're able to begin to see things that, you know, we never could have seen 30, 40, 50 years ago. Right. Stuff lying, the pallet set that's the underprinting of our modern world and our modern civilization. So, yeah, okay, here's the ground. So, we're looking out over the golf course. This gives you a sense of the scale of the earthworks if you go back to here. Yeah, so that might be one of these corners that I'm looking out over, looking this way towards the circle. Okay. And this is the circular structure here. In reference to this circular structure, Squire and Davis said, it is undoubtedly one of the best preserved and most imposing in the state. There are many enclosing larger areas, but none more clearly defined at the entrance, which is towards the east. The ends of the walls curve outwards for the distance of 100 feet, leaving a passageway 88 feet wide between the deep ditches on either hand. Here, covered with the gigantic trees of a primitive forest, the work presents a truly grand and impressive appearance. And in entering the ancient avenue for the first time, the visitor does not fail to experience a sensation of awe, such as he might feel in passing the portals of an Egyptian temple or in gazing upon the silent ruins of Petra in the desert. It must have been an experience for him seeing this thing. Coming upon this thing in the forest, that would be interesting. Trying to wrap your head around what it meant. So, this is from, have you heard of Brad Lepper? He's done some really interesting work on the mounds. It'd be an interesting interview, I bet. This is a view from the core, a synthesis of Hopewell archaeology, edited by Paul J. Pacheco. So, he's referencing Hively and Horn, which, if you're interested in getting into the sacred geometry, Hively and Horn are the guys, and also the archaeoastronomy of many of these. After the break, I can give you the, I can actually show you a couple of books that they've authored that are very valuable. So, in 1982, Hively and Horn added a significant dimension to our appreciation of the Hopewellian achievement when they determined that the major rising and setting points of the moon, we wanted to talk about the moon, okay, encompassing an 18.6-year cycle, are incorporated into the architecture of the Newark Earthworks. They speculate that this astronomical information is not just symbolically encoded into the site plan, but that the substantial earthen walls, with their long sight lines and a height that corresponds more or less to eye level, are massive and therefore long-lived and tamper-proof fixed instruments marking astronomical observations. Hmm. So, to go back to share screen, I think we did look at this briefly last week, but it's worth a revisit here to see. And as I look at this, I can't help but be reminded of, what was it, Thornbridge, the one you just showed? Thornboro. Thornboro. Yeah. Except here you've got, you know, you've got two big circles. One of them is a moat and a ridge. The other one is just a circle, looks like a very large circle, connected by this causeway. And then you've got this square here. Yeah. But the one we've been looking at in the previous pictures is just that one off to the upper right there? Upper right, yes. This is what we were just looking at here. So, all the rest of this is lost under the town or something? Or is it still? I think there's just sort of the ghost of it. Okay, the ghost, yeah. Enough of it that they were able to take those pieces and the old surveys and do this rendering that you see here. Because, yeah, I mean, this is all... It makes you wonder how much has been lost. Oh, my God, yes. It's still an incomplete image, yeah. Yeah. What a strange tape. Mm-hmm. So, see, this is what Lepper says about it. The Newark Brad Lepper. This is him from a... And I love this title because I think that he's really honing in on what I've... Very similar to my conception of what is actually going on here with these structures. And how I tie that in with the whole concept of the grail, which we've talked about, okay? But so this is what he says. The Newark Earthworks, and the subtitle, I like this, A Monumental Engine of World Renewal. This is quoting now. The Newark Earthworks represent the piece de resistance of monumental architecture that is an important part of what archaeologists have referred to as the Hopewell culture. I make this claim not simply because it's the largest complex of geometric earthworks in the Hopewellian world, but because it is an integrated combination of functionally discrete architectural elements incorporating astronomical and geometrical knowledge with uncanny precision and on a scale that is overwhelming to on-the-ground observers. Elsewhere, I have compared the Newark Earthworks to, quote, a North American Caaba, Sistine Chapel, and Principia all rolled into one. But in some ways, the site may be more like a pre-Columbian large hadron collider, a vast machine or device designed and built to unleash primordial forces. And I think right there we're getting on to what these things are all about. Like some kind of geomancy or something, like Earth magic? Is that what you're getting at? Oh, I certainly think that Earth magic is a vector leading us directly to this idea. And I think the Earth magic that we talked about when we're speaking about Earth magic is probably just a residual of what the original technology, and that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about a technology that's probably we're only just beginning to see the dim outlines of what this is all about. But it looks like it's been something that has been undertaken. It's been exploited for a period of time, and then it's fallen into disuse, and then the machine has to be restored and resurrected and reactivated. And then it's fallen into disuse again, fallen into decline. And that's what we're seeing here. And I think we're at the stage now where we are literally now where we can, once we can break out of this straitjacket of thinking that whoever built this were foragers and that they were pre-scientific illiterates who just had some kind of superstitious ceremonials and then understand that they were really bona fide scientists, engineers, that they had a technological and scientific understanding of the way the world works. At that point, we can then realistically begin to reverse engineer what they were up to here. And I think that's where the stage we're at now. I mean, I agree that it has all these features that look functional rather than, for example, this long, narrow causeway that comes off going lower towards the lower left. There's that little circle up there. Right here. Well, yeah, that one, but I'm talking about it's right up by the octagon. Like there's just this little, yeah, it's just, you know, like I see things like that and I'm thinking, okay, this has a function. There's a reason. It's not just random. Right. Hey, you guys, let's put a little circle right here. Right. It does look like it's got a function. Yeah. Uh-huh. But yes, the idea that it's a, what did he say? Like a primordial renewal machine, this is a really interesting idea. A vast machine or device designed and built to unleash primordial forces. Right. And earlier he was saying it was something about renewing. Or did I miss? Well, the subtitle of his article here, which is, let's see, this was, uh, in the work 2000, published in 2016, the Newark Earthwork, Enduring Monuments, Contested Meanings, Enduring Monuments, Contested Meanings, published by the University of Virginia Press in 2016. So this was probably a part of a compilation. And this is Bradley Lepers, which I happen to think that he is closer to an understanding of what was going on here than just about anybody else I've ever read. And he does come from a pretty much an academic background, but I think he's willing to look at this in a, you know, free of some of the constraints. Maybe that was you saying that about like, because you were referencing the grail, like that it's a renewal. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, that is the whole story of the grail. I mean, the quest for the grail is looking for the antidote that will heal not only the ailing king, but heal the wasteland that has been rendered waste, laid waste because of a catastrophe. So is it possible that if there are something, the forces that throughout the balance of terrestrial nature, there could be ways of trying to correct that imbalance? If we're talking about quote unquote primordial forces in whatever form that takes, but I think that it's pretty obvious now that we're looking at something along the lines of, you know, involving the forced state of matter here. I think that's what's coming to a head here is one of the major missing pieces of the puzzle. You know, that's the whole, the contention of Robert Temple's book, A New Science of the Heavens is the transition from plasma to bioplasma and bioplasma and the interaction of plasma fields with the geomagnetic field of the earth and the living bioplasma fields of living organisms, especially humans. So we might be looking at something here that's, you know, I mean, Paul Devereaux decades ago made the connection between the earthworks and stoneworks, megalithic works in the British Isles and the underlying geological structures, the fault, in particular, the fault line. Yeah, they are on fault. Yeah. Yeah. Now that to me, again, is not just coincidental. It's not accidental. It's not accidental. And then that implies that not only did they have a sophisticated understanding of astronomy, they had a sophisticated understanding of geology as well. And whatever they were doing. How would they know it was a fault? Right. How would they know it was a fault? Yeah. Other than the fact that a fault line might produce, or in fact, I think we could say does produce measurable anomalies within the geomagnetic field. Right. There are ways, scientific ways to know it's a fault. So that's the question. It's like if it's, if the fault is basically hidden, unless you have some method of determining it's there, well, somehow or another animals can detect if there's going to be a failure along the fault lines, it's preceded by a buildup of stress. Yes. And that stress is apparently detectable to animals radar and perhaps to some people's radar. Yeah. And sometimes strange aerial phenomena. Yes. So, yeah. Strange aerial phenomena. Audible, audio effects. People hearing things and seeing things. Yeah. And this brings us to the whole subject of, you know, dowsing. You mentioned the word geomancy, which is probably a little bit more of a sophisticated sounding term, I guess, than dowsing or even water witching. But, you know, I've seen enough dowsers at work to believe that there is something there. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, again, I'll bring up Martin. He went out and tried dowsing at some of these sites and got results that satisfied him. And well, that's interesting. I want to know more about that. I mean, I would like to, yeah, get connected. Is he writing a book or website or what? I hope so. I tried to give him a little tough encouragement. Uh-huh. I'll be expecting a book, Martin. Yeah, Martin, we want a book. Okay. We'll see. He's got a ton of research. It would be interesting if he put it into a book. I don't know. So what is, yeah, what is he trying to do with the research? Well, he, I think he's satisfying his own curiosity. Yes, that's what he's doing. Well, that's what it starts with. But eventually you got to. Depends on how many whiskeys he's had. That's what he would say. So how long has Martin been doing this research? How old is he? Just roughly. He's retired. No retired. Okay. So he's been spending a few years on this. A lot of time. Okay. Yeah. I think we should be stoked to hear you discussing it a bit here. We should also take a break. Let's take a break. Yeah. And that's good. We've come full circle on another thing here. It was episode two when we talked about Earthlights and Paul Devereaux. Ah, there you go. Wow. Wow. This is very satisfying to the OCD. Did I, did last episode, did I pull up the map where the overlay of the earthworks are on the, on the, on the town of Newark? Did we get there to that? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think we did. We should do that when we come back from the break, which we were taking right now. Yep. Okay. We'll be right back. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com. Well, all right. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Continuing on with the mountain discussion, I hope. Are we sticking with Newark or what's the number? Yeah. Let's keep going here. So this is a quote right out of Squire and Davis on the ancient works of Marietta, Ohio. So I think this was an article they published. I don't think this was part of their. Oh, before we get started, let's mention a couple of things that are coming up before I forget. Brad, you had some things you wanted to remind us of coming up. Some adventures? Well, definitely. We want to tell people about the tours that we're taking. The annual Scablands trip is coming up in central Washington in the middle of May. So that'll be our fourth annual one, probably the sixth one we've done total. So looking forward to that coming up out into Grand Coulee down in Soap Lake. We set up at a resort and branch out for four plus days. So big fun there coming up middle of March or middle of May, excuse me. And contact at the cabin.com is a good place to start your path to get your tickets. But it's also available on Randall Carlson dot com, which is going through some upgrades. So I'm not sure of the 100% availability of it there. And then also we're going to do the third leg as we flow from Montana out to the Pacific Ocean. We're going to be in the Columbia Gorge for a tour in mid-September. So definitely check those out. We'll be talking more about those as we get time closer. But there are spaces taken already and maybe filling up. So check into those and see if it's something you can get out in the field and do with us this year, 2024, out in Washington, chasing mega floods with Randall Carlson. And we haven't done the gorge as an official tour, but this is quite a place. It's quite an extraordinary, magical place. And my tour through the gorge in 1970 is pretty much what triggered my whole interest in the scab lands originally. I was so impressed by those landscapes and trying to wrap my head around what the meaning of them was, that it just stuck in my craw and I could never get it out. And it's still stuck there. It'll do that. Like some song that you hear over the radio and then it's in your head for three days. You ever had that happen? Earworm. Not for 40 years, though. Okay. Okay. So we'll take three days getting down there and then we'll spend almost three days actually in the gorge, stay at the same place, get settled in for the second half of the tour. But this very first one is going to be extended a bit and we're going to start up in Spokane and see several places along the way that are a bit of a detour to get to otherwise. But we're going to include them because we haven't been there in quite a few years and Randall hasn't been there. And they've revamped the quarry there at Tammany Bar, which we've talked about repetitively, is one of the places where it looks like the two floods, the Bonneville and the Cordilleran Missoula flood. Yeah. We're perhaps simultaneously or intermingling. So that quarry's been quarried, right? The quarry has been quarried. Yeah. So we need to see what it looks like and check that place out. And then we'll head over toward the gorge from there, hit Wallula Gap, which we've missed again on most of the Scaplands tours because it's just a little bit too far away. So that's going to get included on this one also. So some definitely special features and stops in this Columbia Gorge tour, part three, if you want to look at it that way, in mid-September of 24. And then the stop at Tammany Bar there would kind of could set up the possibility for a Bonneville flood tour that could follow. We're kind of almost overlapping. Yeah. So definitely there's a little bit more recon to do on that. We'd like to think that's going to happen in 25. Just could require some more planning. But yeah, a lot of people asking for that one too. Yeah. I'll mention before we go on, because we haven't talked about this in quite a few episodes. But yeah, I've been having some sleep issues lately, insomnia. And then I thought, well, I'd been out of the CBD oil. So I got Mike Robertson to send me some. In the last three nights, I took a hit. And I got to say, man, I slept like a baby. Although I did have some interesting dreams. So there's something going on there. Or perhaps, you know, an untapped potential there. Because, yeah, I just vivid dream. Didn't you have that when you were doing them, Russ? Didn't you say that? I'd have some dreams, yeah. Vivid dreams. I did also. You just have to don't drink the whole bottle. Oh, no? Not the whole bottle? Yeah. It's like you're actually supposed to use the dropper. Uh-huh. Oh. Yeah. We don't slam the whole thing. Okay. Well, let's get back to Squire and Davis on the ancient works at Marietta, Ohio. Now, these are not. This is moving on from Newark. This is at Marietta. So this is a different set of works, right? So they're describing it here in this report that they gave. This may have been in the Smithsonian. Or it may have been in the Bureau, the annual report of the Bureau of Ethnology. Which is a really great source for a lot of this kind of stuff. I mean, they were publishing all through the, probably from the 1830s, you know, right up through the early 1900s. So they're describing this earthwork complex. And the first time I read this, I couldn't help but note something here. Within the larger enclosure are four elevated squares or truncated pyramids of Earth. You know, we've seen those square pyramids of Earth with a flat top, which, from their resemblance to similar erections in Mexico and Central America, merit a particular notice. Okay. So they're seeing that connection there, obvious kind of geometric or architectural similarity between earthwork structures in the Ohio River Valley and similar type structures in Central America and Mexico. Three of these have graded passages or avenues of ascent to their tops. The principal one is marked A in the plan. It is 180 feet long by 132 feet wide. Well, I couldn't help but notice that number, 100,080. Now, just for fun, take 1,080 feet and convert it to inches. Half of a processional cycle? Half of a processional cycle. 12,960. That is a pretty weird coincidence. So that's an odd ratio I don't know that we've ever talked about or I remember you saying that between the diameter of the moon and the great year, 2160 was feet instead of miles, then it would be the same as the length of the years in the great year, right? Because you just said it's half a great year for the diameter, so a radius would be equivalent. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, yes, it would. All right. Throw that away. Well, and then if we go to Stonehenge, let's take a quick look at Stonehenge here. All right. So there's your Stonehenge. And with all of the elements of the design named the Sarsen Stone Circle, which is a sandstone, right? And then you have the blue stone, which is a rhyolite. So you've got a sedimentary rock, outer ring, and you have an igneous rock forming the smaller ring inside, which is the blue stone circle. And then you have the blue stone horseshoe, which is composed of the same type of rock as the blue stone circle. And then you have the horseshoe trilithons, which are these here, making a horseshoe, which is the same stone as the Sarsen Stone. Okay. And then, of course, it's, I think, as most people know, the axis of it is laid out on the somersaults to sunrise axis. So then, if we look at some of the numbers involved here, this is what comes up. We have the Sarsen Stone Circle, which is based on the center line of the stone, 100.8 feet. And then we have the Sarsen Stone outer face, 105.6 feet. Now, that's an interesting number, and here's why. If you go 105.6 times 50, what do you get? It's 5,280. Yes. One mile. So this is one-fifth of a mile. Okay. So now the average length of the Sarsen Stone lintels, the horizontals on top, which are these, is 10.56 feet. Right? So, which, which, wait a minute, which is, and the diameter is 105.6 and the lintels are 10.56? Yes. That's kind of curious. Well, what it's telling us is obviously they've got, you know, it's that there's a common measure here. If we were to divide 10.56 by 10, then we're going to get 1.056. So could it be that that's their fundamental unit? So 10 of those is going to be 10.56. 100 of them is going to be 105.6. Okay. Right? Or that they are using a base 10 system and, in other words, like 105.6 feet could be 100 of their units. Well, yeah, that's what he's saying. Their basic unit is 1.056. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1.056. Or that times 10 would be your 10.56 feet. And that times 100 would be your 105.6. And then, so if your basic 1.056, 5,080 is, yeah. It's about the length of a forearm. Yeah. And 5,000, if your basic unit is 1.056, then 5,000 of those is a mile. Okay. Then we get to the number of sarsen stone lentils, 30. And then the blue stone circle is 79.2 feet. Now, all of these, of course, you can split hairs here and say, well, you know, you can't estimate it to this close. But you can estimate it within a matter of a few inches based on multiple surveys. And I think the point would be this. If we were going to try to duplicate Stonehenge and we use these idealized numbers here, well, the end result would be pretty much indistinguishable from any reconstruction that's ever been done based upon the empirical existence of the stones themselves. So, then notice something interesting here. Difference, oh, first the blue stone horseshoe is 39.6 feet, which, of course, is interesting in its own right because it's then half of the blue stone circle. So, the blue stone horseshoe is half, so it would be as a radius is to a diameter. So, the blue stone horseshoe, at 39.6 feet, its diameter is the radius of the blue stone circle. Then the difference in radii of sarsen and blue stone circles is 10.8 feet. The difference in diameters of sarsen and blue stone circles is 21.6. So, the difference in the radii, 10.8. The difference in the diameters, 21.6. And Brad will instantly recognize those as lunar numbers, right? Because 1,080, radius of the moon in miles, 21,2,160, diameter of the moon in miles. And that leads us to some very interesting geometry. And let's look at what that is. That's it right there. And to my knowledge, the first researcher to point this out was John Michel back in the early 1970s in his book, City of Revelation. Or it may have actually been his book on Atlantis, which I think came out in 1969. But here you can see the squaring of the circle geometry juxtaposed on Stonehenge, and you can see how nicely it lines up. Now, in this case, the red outer circle is going over the center of the sarsen stones. And so, if I go back to here, the center line of the stones can be defined by 100.8 feet. And then the outer face adds this much to it, basically, 105.6 feet. And then the average length of the lintels, 10.56. So, if you multiply 10.56 times 30, you got your calculator handy, Kyle? I do. Then you would have, along that line, it would give you a length very close to the circumference, then, of the sarsen stone circle. 316.8? 316.8 is the correct answer, yes. Okay, so, then, I'm just showing some variations under geometry. But then, the interesting thing about the relationship between the smaller circle tangent to the bluestone circle, and notice again, now, here's the numbers. Let's keep these numbers in mind. The difference in radii of the sarsen and bluestone circles, 10.8. So, if we go back here, that difference is this right here. The difference in diameters, then, is the whole diameter of the small circle. Okay? So, we've got diameter of 21.6 here, and we have diameter of 79.2 here. So, all you have to do is raise those by 100, and you get 7,920 and 2,160, which is virtually, precisely the relationship of the moon to the earth. So, that was what, to my knowledge, again, John Michel was the first to point that out. He may have not been the first. I don't know where he got it, but that, to me, is a very remarkable situation. Then, it gets even more remarkable, because if you take the center point of the lunar circle, which is the geometry, and then you draw a line from the center of the moon to the earth's equator, and then you come across with a straight line to the other side of the earth at the point of the equator, draw that line back up to the center of the moon, the angle you get between this, between the line connecting the equator to the center of the moon with the equator is right at 51.84 degrees, which we know is the pyramid angle. That's the, yeah, slope of the Great Pyramid. Slope of the Great Pyramid. Now, that, to me, is pretty wild. And, of course, you know, obviously, whoever built the pyramid or designed the pyramid, they didn't know that. So, it's just pure. For the people who built Stonehenge, they couldn't possibly have known this either, right? Of course not. How could they connect the moon and the earth to the pyramid? How could they? I mean, it looked like they were working with geometry. Yeah. Now, Stonehenge builders working with geometry, pyramid builders working with geometry. It looks to me like they were some serious overlaps in the geometries that these ancient builders were using. And somehow, these geometric forms are inherent in here. However, they're not just abstractions because they actually exist out there in the three-dimensional real world of time and space. And there it is, enshrined within the Earth-Moon relationship, which, to me, is wild shit. Then, we're going to take, for the next diagram, what we're going to do is we're going to go back to this geometry right here. We're going to abstract it, and then we're going to draw some interconnecting lines, okay? So, now we've got a square. And in this case, the square is virtually the same perimeter as the circumference of the circle that it clips. Right here, the circle that clips the corners of the square, okay? And so, we calculated this. If this square, let's say, is the square enclosing the bluestone circle, which we determined was 79.2, then the perimeter of that square is going to be four times that, which then gives us 316.8 feet. Now, that was the same number that Kyle calculated when he used 10.56 feet for the length along the arc of the lintels, the horizontal stones on the top of the upright, sarsenstone uprights, 316.8. And now, we just calculated the perimeter of the square, and it's 316.8. So, what we have here is apparently these designers, builders were attempting to lay out the solution to the squaring of the circle problem, or at least to set out relationships in this particular structure that manifests this geometry that gives us a virtual solution to the squaring of the circle problem, which, strangely and bizarrely enough, is also demonstrated to us by the relationship between the size of the moon and the size of the Earth. Now, that, to me, is pretty interesting stuff. So, let's go. The next thing what I've done here is I've abstracted a flattened octagonal geometry by removing some of the... Oh, I see it. Crap. So, we get this. Then, the next image, what I'm going to do is I'm going to show this juxtaposed over a refractory photograph of the tip of an excited platinum needle, which is discharging atoms at a certain frequency once that tip has been energized. It starts discharging atoms. And the atoms come off in a very specific pattern as they're, you know, coming off of the point, this tip of this highly energized platinum needle, a very, very fine, you know, honed to an extremely fine tip, right? So, I'm going to bring that in, in the next image. Can you see it? Yeah. I, yes, I, well, I see how the, the points on this shape, this flattened octagon are hitting those, yeah. Those nodes. The nodes and the vibration there. The nodes, yeah. This is like a cymatic pattern. It's like a cymatic pattern. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And these are streams of electrons coming off of this energized tip of a platinum, uh, platinum needle. Okay. Then what I found, of course, purely coincidental, uh, is this. If we go to the, back to the Newark Earth work, and we can see that it is clearly a lunar observatory, right? We've got all the sighting lines of the moon through its 18.6-year cycle. And the long axis of it points right to the maximum northern moon rise. But by placing yourself at the appropriate station within this structure, you can monitor the whole moon's movements over 18.6 years with an extremely high degree of precision. Again, well, of course, I mean, this just is purely accidental. They didn't intentionally incorporate any of this. Now, let's look at this flattened octagon that they made here and juxtapose it on top of our other geometry. Curious. Look at, look at the line up here. First, like I said, this is all purely coincidental. So, if this is, if this is, let me, let me, uh, connect some stuff here. If this is all, like what you were saying before the break, you were reading from that guy who was suggesting that these massive earthworks may be some kind of, uh, advanced machine. Uh-huh. Utilizing subtle primordial forces. Uh, they seem to be connected across the Atlantic. So, we see similar stuff in the UK as we do in the United States. Now, you've made a connection to the pyramids. Or at least the Great Pyramid. And Matt, and, and, you know, at least in the geometries or some of the, the fun, the, the basic ideas that they're pulling their geometries from. Are they, I, I think that the construction, I mean, the standard model construction date for Stonehenge and the Great Pyramid are within a couple of hundred years of each other. Yes, I think you're right. And they're also close to at least some of the ages that the standard model gives to some of these mounds in the U.S. Yes, yes, that's right. So, are we suggesting that there was a global effort to do some kind of, this kind of, uh, like this guy was saying, uh, this, to control these primordial forces for some reason? Running a business is hard enough. So, why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business. Whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So, you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch. So, why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. So, are we suggesting that there was a global effort to do some kind of, this kind of, uh, like this guy was saying, uh, this, to control these primordial forces for some reason? Well, I think there's enough evidence to suggest it's at least worth, worthy of a hypothesis for testing. Yeah. Wow. And, like you said, it's, it's, yeah, and not only, I mean, you said within a, it could be that these structures, that Stonehenge and, and the Pyramid, at least, some of the first wave of earthworks in North America, that they're all happening simultaneously. Yeah, or, like, close to, right? Or close to, yeah. It depends on, you know, how accurate the standard model dates are, but, uh, you know, the Great Pyramid is, what, 2400 BC that Stonehenge, or 2200 BC that Stonehenge is 24. I mean, they're, you know, that's probably within the margin of error. Yeah. They're inhaling platinum, platinum dust from the vertical impactor. I guess the, the Great Pyramid dates are more based on records and a calendar, not necessarily a calendar, but written, you know, the ideas of when a king reigned as opposed to dating. Mm-hmm. Some type of, some objective dating methodology, like optically stimulated, stimulated luminescence, or radiocarbon dating, or some such thing. Um, based more on the historical record. Yes. Yeah. King's List. King's List. As opposed to dating, yeah, which has a margin of error. Mm-hmm. Right. I would, I would suppose that King's List does as well. I don't know how accurate, but still, the idea that there was, that there were people around the world doing similar projects for similar reasons, using similar energies. And possibly a, maybe a, a unified system of measurement. Yeah. Earth measure. Mm-hmm. Okay. Let's push on while we got time here. Okay. So, here's just a compilation of the radius of the moon with some of the, the numbers derived through multiplication of the base number of 108 or 1080. And, and then some of the other, there, there are many, many of these, uh, things that you could invoke that, you know, the, the Bacheng, Cambodia, 12th century temple that has 108 towers. You know, the Hindu meditation or mala beads with 108 beads on a strand. So, that means that when you're doing a full cycle of mantra meditation, you're doing 108 repetitions of your mantra. And, and what episode is this? What, what, what episode number is this? Um, I don't remember. I, 108. So, uh, Mike, I'm, I'm, I'm gratified that you were able to see the connection there. Thank you. Know that it's, again, it's not just coincidental. Wait, you mean this isn't a coincidence? I'm pretty sure that this just is happenstance, Randall. You didn't plan this. Just accidental. It's totally accidental. There's no significance. No, not whatsoever. No, there's no attempt at all to try to demonstrate any correlations or any of that. Okay. So then let's go to the next one, which is the bomb earthwork. And, uh, let's look at some of what's going on with the bomb earthwork. Uh, so we have a small stone circle. Where is this? This is in, this is in, uh, well, there's the paint Creek. So this is up there. This is tributary to the Ohio. It's up in, it's up in the state of Ohio. And, uh, you quite frequently find this area of 27 acres enclosed. But the interesting thing about that is, is it 27 acres or look at the side length of the square? Can you see it right here? What is it? 1,080. Hmm. Hmm. Uh, quick, um, bomb earthwork is located on Paint Creek, east of the village of Bainbridge in Ross County, Ohio. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I wonder if there's any much left, what's left of it. If anything. Well, let's go on to the Frankfurt. Ross County. Isn't that where Serpent Mound is? I think it is. There was a bunch of them on the last show from Ross County. I think that's more Chillicothe, not Serpent Mound. Okay. Yeah, you're right. So, then we'll go to Frankfurt Earthwork Complex. And lo and behold, 27 acres square, side length, 1,080. Which then means that if you measure two sides, how many feet? 2,160. And what's the full perimeter? 4,320. Now, the fact that that happens to be one of the most important and repetitive sacred numbers from the Vedic tradition, the Sumerian tradition, the Mayan, and on and on, the fact that it shows up here in the perimeter measurement, again, is a rather interesting coincidence. In feet. In feet. Let's measure, let's emphasize that. In feet. The significance of the numerical value of the side length of the square completely disappears if we, for example, switch over to meters. Or any other, except perhaps for yards, because yards are built upon feet, right? So, if you have 1,080 feet, then that's 360 yards. Or 1,440-yard perimeter. So, slicing it that way, you get the cosmological numbers either way. And then you've got this huge circle here. You've got a smaller tangent circle. And you have what Squire and Davids are calling the lower bottom. Okay, this was 1845. Yeah, 1845. It looks like this would have been eroded. So, subsequent to the building of this mound, this circular mound, and it looks virtually perfectly circular, this was flooded to the point where this whole low bottom was submerged. I'm guessing. Oh, you think the mound was built before that erosion event took place? Yes. Ah. Yes. Well, I mean, it does look like, at least, it looks like some of them were built up against, but maybe all of them are like that. You know, some of them do, like, appear to go right up to the edge of a drop-off. Yeah. But, were they, was the construction terminated at the drop-off that was already there? Right. Or, in this case, you'd almost, you know, want to think that, you know, it was a complete circle. I mean, why not move it over? I mean, if they were, if they were so precise. Yeah, I mean, there's a spring right there. Look at that. I know. I was going to just point that out. That right there is a spring. I mean, I can imagine doing this job and you making that circle and then you get out there, you're like, it comes off the edge. Oh, shit. John's. Should have set the center a little further away. You were off by six feet, dude. But the fact that there's a spring right there is just, I mean, they had to have incorporated that into the site. I mean, it's right there. You would think. Yeah, you would. I would agree that that spring probably emanated from, it was supposed to come out on the inside of the circle. Inside of the circle. And now it's been eroded away. Yeah, and you can see the little, the mark here of a small creek. Tributary. Tributary, yeah. That's all. Yeah. Let's look at another one. I always have to, I'm a little bit dyslexic. And when I look at the number 27, I'm always just like, yeah, it's sort of like 72 backwards. Yeah. And it's strange that that 10,000 or 1,080 square makes 27 acres. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's look at the site. Come on, now Brad and I have actually visited this one. The mound is still here. There's not much left of the, of the earthworks. But once again, 27 acres, 1,080 feet. So obviously this size of a square had some significance to the ancient builders. Because they, they repeat it over and over again. And it always leads to the same measure in feet, 1,080 on a side, 4,320 in perimeter. And here's a picture of site mound, the last thing that's there. You can see this mound here. And then we've got this. The Works East earthwork complex. And according to Squire and Davis, the original area was 27 acres. So if they're right, then, you know, this. An extended way out there. Yes. Wow. So they are suggesting it. The river has moved into the earthwork there. Yes, the river has moved into the earthworks, which is not surprising. I mean, I've seen, you know, the creek that I've been kind of observing for about 30 years now near where I live has made some pretty significant channel migrations just in the time that I've seen it. But interestingly, the channel migrations, there has been two episodes. One was Hurricane Ivan. And then there was another major storm over North Georgia that occurred a few years later. Those two episodes, within a matter of a few days, did hundreds of times more erosion than like you've seen since. You know, I think Ivan was, what, 2003? So almost, you know, 20 years ago. I think it was four. And the other one might have been Opal. Opal. Opal is right. Opal. Right. So, yeah. So that's the thing about, you know, we have to integrate that kind of thinking, you know, into the catastrophist model is that, yeah, you have slow cumulative changes. Absolutely. They are happening all the time. But then they get interrupted by these short-lived events, which unleash orders of magnitude, greater power than, you know, the normal. Well, you know, and engineering is probably going to have to considerations when you talk about a hundred-year flood or a thousand-year flood. That concept can be, nobody was thinking when they created this kind of hierarchy of flood effects, nobody was thinking, well, a hundred-year flood, that's about as big as floods are going to get. But now we have to recognize that in the recent past of the planet Earth, there have been thousand and even ten thousand-year floods. And in fact, I think some of the scab lands floods out there, you could even think of as our million-year floods. Because when do we, I mean, how far do we have to go back to find other floods of 800 million cubic feet per second, for example? Where do we find current flows like that anywhere other than some of these, you know, these spectacular places? So anyways, it seems like these numbers, that there's significance to the geometry and to the numbers, in addition to the astronomy, here's 1,320 on a side, which is a little different, 131 acres. So Squire and Davis, going back to quoting them, they say that it has been observed that certain groups are marked by a great uniformity of size. Five or six of these are noticed in the succeeding pages. They are exact squares, each measuring 1,080 feet on a side. A coincidence, which could not possibly be accidental, and which must possess some significance. It certainly establishes the existence of some standard of measure among the ancient people, if not the possession of some means of determining angles. So I think it clearly does establish the existence of some standard of measurement amongst ancient people. And of course, they're only referring to the mound builders. But I, you know, here's what we're, I think we're kind of what this is pointing at, is at least in Europe, in the British Isles, and here, the possibility that those builders were using the same standard of measurement, I mean, how much, how many correlations do you have to assemble before you begin to go, okay, there is a pattern here. This is not just meaningless correlation, that there is, and at what point does it become more difficult to dismiss it as coincidence than to accept the fact that possibly these people were using the same standard of measure? And I think that's underscored by the, the earthworks that you saw in Newark, and the ones from, we've seen in previous podcasts from, also in Ohio, where you've got this, this, I don't know how to describe it, but this, this multi-sided rectangle with a circle on top, it's not a, it's not a square, it's like an exploded square, and it's the same shape in both places, you know, how, you know, what kind of coincidence is that? Are you talking about the flattened octagon shape? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it seems to me that if you've got such a, such a precise, the flattened octagon with a circle on top, it seems to me that you've got such a precise, precise design in two separate places, that's more than coincidence. Mm-hmm. I would think so. And, and, and, and, and I, I know you, we, we, we focus on the mathematics of it, but I'm interested in the, the, the cultural aspects of that. Why? Why is it there? What, you know, what's the, the cultural interreaction? Well, yeah, it, to me, is a, one of the obvious questions that just is begging to be answered. Where did this, you know, why is it there in two places? Well, here's, here's another little thing. This, if you got your calculator honed up, uh, there, Kyle, uh, the Assyrian foot that was used in Assyria between three and 4,000 years ago, roughly was one, you were talking about the repetition of numbers. This was, it turns out to be in terms of feet, the Assyrian foot was 1.1111111 feet. Okay. That was the Assyrian foot. So what happens if you mult, if you divide 1,200 Assyrian feet by 1.11111, try it, put in 1,200 and then divide by 1.111111 recurring and tell me what you get. 1,080. 1,080. Whoa. So, so, so, right. So we're saying, well, only in feet does it come up as 1,080 in, in, in imperial feet, British feet. However, if you trans, if you transform it into Assyrian feet, it comes up to be precisely 1,200 Assyrian feet. Right? So, uh, on the other hand, uh, if you take the long Sumerian foot, let's see if I can remember this properly. Um, if you go 1,200 times 1.111111, what do you get virtually? I don't understand. You can't, you can't. Okay. So, so let's, the, the, if you take the 1,200 feet, Assyrian feet and you, let me see if I can do this right here. 1,200. If the original measurement is 1,080 imperial feet. Yes. And the Assyrian foot is 1.111111 recurring. That's, that's how long it is in imperial feet. Uh, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 imperial feet long. 1, 1, 1, 1 imperial feet. It's a little longer than an imperial foot. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. So, so. You can't, so you have to divide 10, 80 by 1.1. By 1.1. You can't. You get 972. You get 972. Yeah. 972. Yeah. Okay. So, 1,200 Assyrian feet times 1.1111. 1, 1, 1, 1. Okay. So there, yeah. So there you're virtually 1,320 feet, which is this, the 31 acres. Well, let's go on to what we got here. Uh, this is diameter of circle, uh, 1,050 plus feet, probably originally 1,056, which if it was 1,056, we know that that times five gives us a mile. So this circle up here at the ancient work at Pike County, Ohio, the original, if it was there, it's in the survey, they're calling it 1,050 plus feet. If that plus was six feet, then it's 1,056 feet. That's my point, which is one fifth of a mile. So it's very close to being one fifth of a mile. And, and the fact that it, that that might've been the intended measurement. If we look at this circleville in Ohio that no longer exists and we take the numbers directly from Squire and Davis's survey, we see that the diameter of the inner circle here is 1,056 feet. So that would suggest, you know, again, 10.56, uh, feet. And yes, which we found, remember we found that in Stonehenge, that was a prominent number in Stonehenge, such are the predominant features of this remarkable series of works as already remarked, the coincidences observable between them could not have been the result of accident. And it is very manifest that they were erected for common purposes. What those purposes were, the reader must judge. And then finally, they'll, they say that there is one deduction to be drawn from the fact that the figures entering into these works are of uniform dimensions, which is of considerable importance in its bearing upon the state of knowledge among the people who erected them. It is that the builders possessed a standard of measurement and had some means of determining angles. So they reemphasize that, that point. Um, and then another, uh, student of the earthworks was Caleb Atwater. And in 1820, he, uh, wrote a piece called remarks on the circleville earthworks. And this, he says, what surprised me on measuring these, he calls them forts was the exact manner in which they had been laid down. Uh, they had laid down their circle and square so that they, so that after every effort by the most careful survey to detect some error in their measurement, we found that it was impossible and that the measurement was much more correct than it would have been in all probability had the present inhabitants undertaken to construct such a work. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process, so you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. In the book, Hidden Cities, by, I believe, Roger Kennedy. I think I recommended his book last episode. Oh, and by the way, I did mention I was going to show this one. We need to put this in the bookstore. Signs of Power. Very interesting book on the—it's a compilation of different articles and so on. So you've got different perspectives and points of view, which is always good. Very interesting stuff in this book, Signs of Power. And you'll notice on the cover here, they're showing almost like a line of force going up over the apex of the mound to the, I presume, to sunrise in the distance, and he's performing, the high priest is performing some kind of a ceremony, I suppose, to invoke the power. So from this Hidden Cities, engineers have discerned in recent years what was known to the engineers of Hopewell times, that there are grids of straight lines upon which their earthen figures are laid. Now, does that remind you of anything when you hear grids of straight lines? How about— Latitude and longitude, is that what you mean? Well, latitude and longitude would be one. Another one might be—what's his name? Alfred Watkins' lay lines? Lay lines, yeah. Straight lines going over the crisscrossing the landscape. Lines invisible but real, leading to the horizon, to be discerned by repeated and patient observation of the heavens, and then traced upon the ground. When that is done, if one desires to be in harmony with the passages of the moon, one might do what the Hopewell did, place earthworks upon those invisible templates. The earthen circles at Circleville were too formidable to plow out, so they defined the shape of a little village which grew up within them in the early 19th century. The outermost became the town wall. After steam equipment facilitated desecration, the wall became a street. The obliterated inner circle became an alley. By that time, it had been observed that the outer one, with a diameter of 1,200 feet, was the same size as the fairground circle at Newark, 40 miles away. So, 1,200 feet, okay, 1,200 feet, divide by 1.11111, yes. So, then I was mixed up. I had a little dyslexia going on. So, if you had a diameter of 1,200 feet imperial, that's 1,080 feet Assyrian, right? Got it. Yeah. Later, when scientific measurement was applied to the great half-circular embankment at Pinson, Tennessee, and to the circle cut into the earth at Fort Center, northwest of Fort Okeechobee, Florida, it was found that their diameters were also 1,200 feet. Within the outer circle at Circleville is a ditch, and then another inner circle, its diameter, is 1,056 feet. So, think about that. What did we say that the outer circle of the Sarsenstone Circle at Stonehenge was? 105.6. So, in other words, now you have a circle here that's exactly 10 times larger than the Sarsenstone Circle at Stonehenge. I mean, it goes on and on and on. And at what point do we say, wait a second, there's a system here. There's some kind of a pattern. We're seeing evidence that these people were using the same system or standard of measurement on both sides of the Atlantic. Have you looked into this research on the megalithic yard? Oh, yeah. Alexander Thaum and his, yeah, he derived that from surveys of over 500 ancient structures in Britain, Scotland, Ireland, in the British Isles. Yeah. Has anyone tried applying that to these? I have. Well. Yes. Say it on me. What's the deal? Oh, gee. Come on, Rowan. Are we getting to that later? Well, you know, whenever you guys are ready, you know, I'm wide open to doing special, special episodes. Sort of like, you know, the band gets back together to do a special performance. But it doesn't mean that we're going to, you know, start cutting albums together again and go on tour again. It just means we're getting together for a whatever, right? Because believe me, there's a lot more here, bros. A lot more. Oh, we know you've got a lot of stuff. You've been holding out on us for a long time. Well, no, it's just, I mean, no, we got, when you build a house, the first thing you have to do is build the foundation. Uh-huh. See? Yeah. You understand that concept. We definitely understand that. I love this idea that they're using the same measurements. But, you know, I could, let's go back to your question. How, at what point do you have, can you say, or should people say, okay, this is not a coincidence? Well, apparently, I mean, this stuff has been known for over 100 years. So apparently all this data, and they still say it's a coincidence. So there's not. Well, they don't look at this. They don't look, they ignore this kind of data. Yeah. But surely there are people that know, and they still are, either they keep silent about their, about the idea that there's a connection. Yeah. Or they still think it's a coincidence. Can't possibly be true. The Neanderthals were sailing around 100,000 years ago. Yeah. What's the deal? Well, why don't we have some time left? Why it's so implausible. Let's address the question. Doesn't it know what the handbag is? It's a measuring tape? I like that as well as any others. Yes, I do. Okay. So who were the mound builders? Let's go back. Now, all of this that I've got that I'm about to pull up here, I pulled out of things like early Smithsonian reports, Bureau of American Ethnology, and other obscure, you know, state journals and all of that. So it's some interesting stuff. And I presume that these guys, most of them weren't like trying to just get a bunch of hits on the Internet. So they're not making this stuff up. They're going out there and they're actually interviewing and talking, interacting. I mean, some of this stuff goes back to the early 1800s, where some of the early explorers and surveyors and stuff are going, all right, you guys, you're living here amongst all of this incredible earthworks. What's the story? And what did they find out? Well, that's what I want to get into here. So, but when we get to the Bureau of Ethnology, when we get to the turn of the century, just like I think in a similar mindset to the establishment of uniformitarian dogma that took place at exactly the same time as dogma about prehistoric America, right? From 1890s into the early 2000s, so in his remarks on the preface to a report on the mound explorations of the Bureau of Ethnology in the 1890s, in his remarks in the preface, Cyrus Thomas, who was one of the surveyors, said this. The opinion held by Major J.W. Powell that the Indians found inhabiting the Atlantic Division of North America and their ancestors were the builders of the mounds in that region, which the explorations of the Bureau of Ethnology under his charge have done much to confirm has been adopted. Okay, so this is when this idea that the immediate ancestors of the inhabitants of these areas, when the Europeans arrived, were the builders, okay? And that became and has been the established position throughout all of the 20th century, okay? Joseph M. Knapp, in 1998, wrote a piece on the Great Hopewell Road, which is this who-knows-how-long, dozens-of-miles-long series of parallel embankments connecting sacred centers, Newark to one of the others. I forget which one. So in this treatment on the Great Hopewell Road, this is what he says. The federal government was instrumental in fostering the veer towards rationality in mound builder matters, specifically through the creation of the Smithsonian Institution of the Division of Mound Exploration Bureau of Ethnology. Cyrus Thomas, a specialist in entomology as well as ethnology, was in 1881 appointed director of this activity and in 1894 published a summary titled Report on the Mound Explorations of the Bureau of Ethnology. In addition to developing the Framework of North American Indian Culture Areas and Mound Classifications, still in use today, this is in 1998, he reported results of the division's excavations proving that mound builder burial practices were seen among pre-Columbian Shawnee groups. However, as we've repeatedly referenced, yes, they did bury their dead in the mounds. Do we then assume from that, this was what was taken as proof that the mounds were built by the immediate predecessors or ancestors of the tribes found living in the areas around those mounds? Well, I mean, is that an assumption that's unassailable? Is that an unassailable assumption? No. Then let's go into some of the reports and the discussions with the tribes themselves. Now, this was the Reverend Elias Cornelius in 1818 in the Silliman's American Journal of Science and Art, first series. And this is before, this is like published by the American Bureau of Ethnology, but long now, decades and decades before they decided it was time to establish a rational dogma. Okay, he says, and I quote, I have but one more article of curiosity to mention under this division. It is one of those artificial mounds which occur so frequently in the western counties, in the western country. I have seen many of them, but never one of such dimension as that which I am now to describe. It is situated in the interior of the Cherokee Nation, on the north side of the Etowah, which is the one in my backyard, which we talked about last episode, one of the branches of the Coosie River. Okay. On these great works of art, the Indians gazed with as much curiosity as any white man. I inquired of the oldest chief, if the natives had any tradition respecting them, to which he answered in the negative. I then requested each to say what he supposed was their origin. Neither could tell, though all agreed in saying, and he's got this in quotes, they were never put up by our people. It seems probable they were erected by another race who once inhabited the country. Then Renaud Chateaubriand, in his, he was a, I know he was a politician explorer. He was, yeah, a bunch of things. In his voyages to America in 1826, he wrote this. The Indians are in agreement in saying that their fathers came from the west. They found the works of the Ohio just as they are to be seen today. But the date of this migration of the Indians from the west to the east varies according to the nations. Another tradition. Now this, I'm going to say this because this is what Graham got in such hot water, O. Because he was accused of distorting the traditions of the, of insulting the native peoples by suggesting there may have been someone else. And he was accused of being a white supremacist. Yet this, what I'm about to read now, we find over and over and over again to the point where the only way around it is to say almost that it was a concerted conspiracy of a bunch of racists back then to deny the responsibility or the capability of creating these earthworks to the native peoples they found there. But I think that a small amount of investigation will reveal that the, that the reports from the native inhabitants were so consistent over decades and over long geographic ranges that we have to consider that there might be a measure of truth. Anyways, this is what he says. The Indians are in agreement in saying that their fathers came from the west. They found the works of the Ohio just as they are to be seen today. But the date of this migration of the Indians from the west to the east varies according to nations. Another tradition claims that the works of the Ohio were raised by white Indians. These white Indians, according to the red Indians, were to have come from the east. And when they left the lake without shores, the sea, they came dressed like the pale faces of today. Now, we can't even consider that as a possibility because obviously we do can even consider that remotely as a possibility. I mean, now that puts us firmly in the camp of racist, white supremacist, conspiracy mongering pseudoscientists, right? Or we have to assume without any evidence one way or the other that he just made this up. Interestingly, here's where what where René Chateaubriand goes with his speculations. Mike Plato's Atlantis have existed unknown centuries ago. Did Africa join America? That's interesting because he's anticipating by 150 years the acceptance of continental drift right there. However, that may be an unknown nation, a nation superior to the Indian generations of today, passed through these wildernesses. What was this nation? What revolution destroyed it? When did this event happen? These are questions which which throw us into that immensity of the past where the centuries are swallowed up like dreams. And then we have remarks by Squire and Davis themselves regarding William Bartram's manuscript on the southern Indians that was entitled Travels in North America. From the quotations above, it appears that less than one century ago, a portion of the monuments of the south were in actual use by the Indians. It will be observed, however, that our authority ascribes their construction to an anterior race and assigns them a high antiquity. In his travels, Bartram, in his travels, Bartram remarks that the region in which they are most abundant was occupied subsequently to the arrival, subsequently to the arrival of the Europeans by the Cherokee, who were afterwards dispossessed by the Creeks. That, quote, all of this country was probably many ages preceding the Cherokee invasion, inhabited by a single nation or confederacy governed by common laws, possessing like customs and speaking the same language. But so ancient, but so ancient that neither the Creeks nor the Cherokee nor the nations they conquered could render any account by whom or for what purposes these monuments were erected. This is from the American Journal of Science in 1838. Notes respecting certain Indian mounds and earthworks in the form of animal effigies, chiefly in the Wisconsin territory. And this is published in the American Journal of Science, Richard C. Taylor. A writer in the United States Gazette during a late visit to Wisconsin observed numerous mounds and large embankments spread over a space of 30 miles around the site of, quotes, the ancient city. Some of them were designed, he states, to resemble lizards, turtles, buffaloes, and even human forms. The present wandering tribes of Indians are, quote, entirely unable to give any account of these remains or to furnish the slightest tradition respecting the ancient possessors of the soil. So, I mean, it goes on and on. So, this is from Antiquities of the Southern Indians. Colonel C.C. Jones in 1873 in the annual reports to the Bureau of Ethnology. And he's talking about, let's see, which one is he talking? Oh, yeah, he's talking again about the mounds near here, the Etowah mounds, okay? Viewed as a whole, this group is the most remarkable within the confines of this state. These mounds are situated in the midst of a beautiful and fertile valley. They occupy a central position in an area of some 50 acres bounded on the south and east by the Etowah River and on the north and west by a large ditch or artificial canal, which at its lower end communicates directly with the river. Remember the canal wrapping around it? Yeah. Within the enclosure formed by this moat and the river are seven mounds. Three of them are preeminent in size. The one designated in the accompanying plan by the letter A, far surpassing the other, both in proportions and in the degree of interest which attaches to it. To the eye of the observer as it rests for the first time upon its towering form, it seems a monument of the past ages, venerable in its antiquity, solemn, silent, and yet voiceless, a remarkable exhibition of the power and industry of a former race. With its erection, the modern hunter tribes, so far as our information extends, had not to do. Composed of earth, simple yet impressive in form, it seems calculated for an almost endless duration. Notes respecting the Indian mounds, certain Indian mounds, this is going back to Taylor again, he says, I confess that I am aware of no positive evidence to show that any of the existing tribes or branches, thus distinguished by a species of armorial bearings, actually did erect monuments of earth in the shape of the animals whose names they bear. And then John C. Green, published in a work entitled American Science in the Age of Jefferson, published by the Iowa State University Press, this is quoting from that, was published in 1984. The Cherokees were the oldest existing tribes in the Southeastern United States, and their empire had once extended over much of the region in which the mounds, terraces, and chunky yards were found. Those chunky yards were, I think, what we were calling plazas, with the pole in it. Yet, the Cherokees admitted that they had not built these structures, and denied that they had been built by the people who inhabited the country before them. These constructions, Bartram concluded, were a difficult puzzle. It goes on, in 1813, Henry M. Brackenridge sent Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson, an extensive account of the aboriginal monuments he had encountered in his travels up and down the Mississippi Valley. Brackenridge concluded, these ancient monuments, like the mountains, volcanoes, and waterfalls of America, and the diversity of aboriginal languages, proved that the new world was as ancient as the old, and like it, had undergone innumerable revolutions in which countless races of men had flourished and disappeared. So, this is back in Jefferson's day, and yet, I think it's taken us 200 years to come to the scientific realization that this is probably a far more accurate depiction of what happened here than the dogmas that have been propagated for the last century or more. Going back to E.G. Squire, in an article he wrote for the American Journal of Science that was published in 1847, observations on the uses of the mounds of the West with an attempt at their classification. It is a fact well known that the modern Indians, though possessing no knowledge of the origin or objects of the mounds, were accustomed to regard them with a degree of veneration. It is also known that they sometimes buried their dead in accordance with the almost invariable custom which leads them to select elevated points and the browse of hills as their cemeteries. That their remains should be found in the mounds is, therefore, a matter of no surprise. Henry Gilman, in the American Journal of Science, The Mound Builders and the Platinumism in Michigan, quoting directly from the 1873 work, Indian tradition says that these mounds were built in ancient times by a people of whom they, the Indians, know nothing, know nothing, and for whom they have no name, that the mounds were occupied by the Toidal Indians and subsequently by the Wyandotts, but were constructed long before their time. So, you know, it goes on. Back to Squire and Davis, it may be suggested that the human remains found in these mounds were deposited by the existing tribes of Indians. A suggestion which derives great force from the fact that many of the Indians to this day bury in these structures, conceiving that they were originally designed for that purpose, although they possess no tradition respecting their origin. What are the Newark octagon, earthworks, octagonmoonrise.org? And this is from an account in 1772. So, the American Indians living in Ohio during the late 17th and early 18th centuries appear to have had no certain traditions relating to the mounds. When asked, most said they knew nothing about the earthworks. For example, in 1772, David McClure visited several, quote, very ancient artificial works in the vicinity of the Delaware Indian village near modern Newcomerstown, Ohio. He noted that, quote, the present inhabitants can give no account of the builders or the design of them. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. So, interestingly, I'm going to quote from a book that really isn't relevant. I mean, it's not directly talking about the mounds, but it's entitled The Megalithic Odyssey by an engineer who spent many decades publishing and looking at the dates of these various constructional undertakings and their dating and so on. And one of his conclusions is looking through and sifting through the mountain of material and traditions and legends and folklore and so on, myths. He concludes this. Now, this is from his book, The Megalithic Odyssey in 1983. The most consistent of all traditions concerns the civilizing and teaching of primitive peoples by a group of itinerant sages that orally transmitted tales of which have the same flavor from Central America to the Persian Gulf, from North America to Japan, and from Europe to Oceania. So, interestingly, he's drawing from traditional accounts, myths, legends, finding this same idea over and over again. And right here in North Georgia, there's a place called Blood Mountain that I used to hike up, right? Brad, I think, has probably hiked it. It's right up there. Oh, it's near the Blue Ridge. It's Blood Mountain. Apparently, there was a bloody battle there. I find the reference to blood being interesting. It almost suggests, you know, perhaps the Holy Grail. But it's probably not there anymore because it was a weathered sign the first time I ever hiked up there, which would have been in the 70s, right? And it was there for a long time. And it was right at the base, right at the trailhead, at the base of the mountain where you went up. And it talked about the Cherokee legends of the Nunahai that came and occupied the mountain in ancient times. And the Nunahai, they had a translation, meant the people who could travel anywhere. And it was right there. The Nunahai were the people, according to the Cherokee language and the Cherokee tradition, that could travel anywhere. And that, I mean, to me, again, it's consistent with the findings of Christian O'Brien. Now, if such a thing is possible, if we don't just knee-jerk dismiss this as a possibility, why is it so? If we accept the possibility or the probability of there being global catastrophes that could cause the collapse of civilization, is it such a stretch to think there may have been a group or groups that set out, with the intention of mind, of preserving certain scientific knowledge and information about astronomy and geology and geometry and who knows what else, plasma physics, perhaps, whatever the case may be? And then, just as Plato describes, you have these isolated groups of survivors, you know, and once they've acquired, only once they've established where they can, you know, they've got the fundamentals of survival secured, can they now turn their attention to the more advanced things of intellectual inquiry and scientific curiosity and all of that kind of stuff? Well, now you've got a group of what O'Brien is calling itinerant sages that show up and say, hey, we represent a group that actually preserved some very specific knowledge and we're here to share this knowledge with you. Is that so outlandish that we can't even, we're not even allowed to consider it? So, yeah, history of Delaware and Ohio, 1880, chapter 2, history of Delaware County. In the examination of the early history of Delaware County, we find the first inhabitants who have left any traces of their existence were the mound builders. The question may properly be asked, who were the mound builders? And it is the question which has puzzled archaeologists ever since the discovery of the strange works of this race. The red Indians who occupied this country at the time of its discovery by Europeans had no knowledge nor even traditions of their predecessors, so that what the white man learns from them, and this is written in 1880, he must learn directly from the remains of their own works. Their antiquity is as yet an entire mystery. So, yeah, I mean, it goes on and on. I mean, this is the unanimous report. So we have to almost, okay, it was a big conspiracy of a bunch of white racists to try to dis, you know, to prevent the Native tribes of having this direct connection. Yet, over and over and over again, we find the same testimony reported from multiple independent sources that, yeah, we came here and these mounds were here. We don't know who put them here. They proceed. In fact, they were here before the guys. They were here before the guys who were before the guys who were before us. So, you know, what's been established, though, what I read at the beginning, though, was this. When the government comes involved and says, okay, we're going to impose a rational framework on this. Right? So the question is answered. Who built these? It was the immediate predecessors of the Native inhabitants that were there when the Europeans arrived. And we will ignore their own testimony. But there's so much more to get into here. But one of the things that we will get into if we do a special edition, I will share this. I know we got to go now, but I will share this. And because this tradition seems to dovetail in a very interesting way with everything we've said up to this point. And so we definitely we can definitely come back for a special edition on Giants. We'll make that. Let's do it. Let's make that happen. Classic Snake Bros topic. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've got some good stuff. It's not all original, but I've got an interesting collection of stuff I've put together over the years from sources that, you know, I mean, I've got Emory University here, which has this amazing collection of stuff that I've been able to access and go in. And a lot of these are, I don't know if they've been, some of them have been published, some of them have not, but they're like original accounts from volumes that, you know, you get special permission. You go in, you've got some volume from 1845 and you pull it off. You carefully go through the pages. You find an account of the ancient earthworks by such and such river. And then you start reading into it. And what you find there, you're going to assume, okay, these guys were not fishing for, you know, this was not clickbait. They're actually reporting authentically what they're finding and what they're hearing and what's being reported. So from this, then we can segue over into what I think was perhaps the technological and scientific rationale of what this ancient planetary engineering system was all about. I would at least say the LSU mounds have confirmed what the Native Americans were saying that they can't remember. I mean, I, that seems plausible that you wouldn't remember 12,000 years of history. Right. Yep. That it might've been forgotten who started, who originally built them. Right. Especially if there's no writing. Well, and even if, if it's, if it's like people taking over lands from other people, you know, how much history are you going to get from those people that you're driving away or. Yeah. Or. Yeah, exactly. Wiping out or whatever. I mean, you might get some. And if that happens a bunch of times, then. And when, if you assume that the conquerors in their own ways were biased or bigoted or racist in their own ways. And, you know, disregarding or diminishing the value of the traditions of the people that they're driving out or whatever. You know. Yeah. So, I mean, we've seen that happen in modern times. Right. In fact, it could be happening right now. But. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's great stuff. We're, we're, we're confronted with the 108, the mystery of the number 108 or 1080. And that's where there's another branch of esoteric knowledge that we can bring in. And that is the Kabbalah. And how these numbers emerge from the Kabbalah over and over again. When you start translating sacred writings according to their numerical counterparts. Mm-hmm. Excellent show. Excellent, excellent run here. We managed to get to episode 108, which, uh, symmetrically nicely is, uh, right when we started this podcast, uh, Randall was on and I was in the background on brothers of the serpent episode 108. So we've gotten this far in four and a half years. Um, I think moving forward, we're going to be a little more sporadic. Um, not sure exactly on the plans, but a lot of traveling going on. The guys are going to be in Egypt. We got a, they're hosting, uh, uh, eclipse event. I'm going to be gone. Lots of may doing recon and having the scab lands tour. Uh, we got the cosmic summit coming up. Then the guys are going to be doing harvest. Yeah. Um, then we got September tours. Um, so yeah, it's just going to be sporadic moving ahead this year, but, uh, there's definitely some topics we want to get back to. Uh, Randall, you might be doing some own thing, your own things. If you want to talk about. Yeah. Just to fill in the gaps here, I'm launching a new podcast. It's going to be hosted by rumble. Uh, I'm calling it squaring the circle, um, for obvious reasons. And it'll be a shorter form than, than what we do. I mean, like how long we've been going tonight, two hours, two 20, two 20. Okay. So it's going to be smaller digestible chunks. I'm going to take a specific topic, just really focus on that for anywhere from half an hour, maybe at the maximum an hour, probably mostly between, uh, half an hour and 45 minutes. Uh, and the studio here is almost ready to start receiving guests. So it's going to be three tiers. I'll be doing, uh, episodes where it'll be just me. Then some, I'll be joined by Brad. Uh, I'm hoping that Brad shows up and, uh, maybe even normal guy will drop in, uh, just for old time's sake. I'm just down the street, just down the street considering. Yeah. So then the second tier is I'm lining up some interesting people to talk to, uh, remotely. So I've been, uh, you know, we're all set up here, ready to go with the, with the new equipment, uh, um, all of that. And then the third tier, well, I'll be having guests right here in the, uh, in the studio. So there'll be that. So there's going to be plenty of stuff, material and, and, and evidence and everything coming out. And then to the extent that you guys are spontaneously available for an hour, a couple hours, we could just convene, have an interesting discussion, or I could come on your podcast. We've got to have you back on our show. Yeah. And you guys are coming back from Egypt. I imagine you're going to have some interesting stuff to share. Yes. And, um, I have a suspicion that some of that is going to dovetail with stuff that I won't be able to get into because we're sort of up to the edge of that. But again, these cross-cultural correlations really are emerging to be, I think, a very important evolution in our thinking about our own past. And this idea that there could be, uh, you know, a lot more global interactions than we've admitted for the past century and so forth. So these are ideas that I think you guys are in the forefront of exploring. I'm so much, very much, Brad, very much with these questions. And what implications does that have for understanding not only our past, but our present, and even perhaps most significantly our future? Because I think part of the tradition that has come down to us does involve, if you want to think of them as these nodal points, these points of accelerated evolution within the continuum of, of change, planetary change, and how past civilizations have been able to cope with that. And what that might mean for the long-term survival and sustainability of this planetary culture that is emerging as we speak, assuming that we ourselves don't pull the plug on it by some stupid, you know, stupid, completely unnecessary and pointless wars that achieve nothing in the long run, which is something that, and I will be talking a little more about some of the current events, because I'm very much into this, how can we make better sense out of current events by examining them through the lens of this alternative, current history that's sort of emerging. And I think that it's important that we do look at current events through that lens. And I think then we'll see them in a completely different light and realizing that there are trends that have been going on for decades and centuries, maybe even millennia, that we're seeing playing out right now in the world. So we're going to be getting into a lot of interesting stuff. So, and, and, and if Russ ever has any time at all for Russ and I to do some of our, um, Randall reveals, um, you just should be able to join you for some of those every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Not weekly, but every once in a while, I'm not going to, I'm not obligating you, Russ. I'm not holding your feet to the fire. I'm pretty sure when you call me, you're like every day, every day, we need to make one of these. Well, no, not every day, but I would be calling you every day to harass. If there's one every six months, that'll be more than there has been doing. So that's right. Yeah. We'll definitely, yeah. I'll definitely be able to join Randall for some reveals and rumble show. And we'll get back for, you know, the occasional Cosmo when we can swap cast, all kinds of options. We'll do swap cast. We'll get Randall on our show. Yeah. There are, in other words, as Brad just said, there are options. There are options. Yeah. Uh-huh. All right. But it'll be a little while. We're going to be taking a break. So this is, I'm going to bid everyone adieu from the Cosmographia team for now. Yeah. And, but, but be, you know, checking out, go to howtube or randallcarlson.com for, you know, I think the goal now is to start recording the first episodes of the new podcast next week, right here in the studio. Nice. Fantastic. Nice. All right. Great show, guys. Get your Cosmographia caps. Yeah. Cool. All right, guys. Fun. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Randall. Good run for 108 episodes. Mike. Enjoyed, enjoyed working with you guys. Yeah. Likewise. All right. Good night. Good night. Good night. Awesome. Great. Fantastic. Awesome. Great. Awesome. Awesome. Alright. Cool. Awesome. Nice. All right. vão. Bye. Day. All right. do you, awesome.