Gordon White | Time Magic, Sky Country, & Tornado Weather

All right, people, I am going to make this quick, but I just had to announce that for the next six weeks or so getting into the holiday season, I'm putting a lot of my show outlines up for auction again. I've mentioned before that I stick to a strict routine when preparing for and recording THC episodes, and part of that process, 95% of the time, going back many years, has been compiling my mess of notes into a roughly four to six page outline that I print out and then conduct the interview from as a template. I write in the margins, I cross questions off as we go along, I jot things down a guest says that I don't want to forget, and I usually have a good deal of material in these outlines that never even makes it to air. When an interview is done, I put a little staple in the corner and throw them in a drawer until the time comes to dust them off and show them to the people for the holidays. Some folks seek out signed scripts of their favorite movies or try to nab a concert set list before filing out into the parking lot. Well, this is like that, but for a weird, obscure podcast. So I am signing, listing, and auctioning off another round of these outlines I have to any listeners who might be interested in that kind of thing. Each one is totally unique, full of my own dumb notes and typos, never really designed for public consumption, but it's fine. If you're into it, they'll be listed on eBay, the link is at the top of the show notes, and I'll post links across the social media dystopias that I happen to have an unfortunate presence on. All the listings are set to go for 10 days each, so have at it, and I'll be ready to stuff those envelopes on the other side. Merry Christmas to me. Enjoy. Help me help you higher side chatters from the sunshine state. I'm Greg Carlwood, and while we watch the wokesters unravel and the MAGA faithful's foam at the mouth during this intense offseason, it can seem like we're locked into pretty chaotic times ahead. Family members going no contact over their conditioning, multiple pathways to World War III, toxic environmental disasters of increasing frequency and scope, escaped lab monkeys, a collapsing legacy media, technocratic wet dreams becoming reality, and a range of far-reaching, massive changes proposed by the incoming president, and a blue state chorus line of non-compliance ready there to resist. And not just in the U.S., but around the world, there are massive cracks in the conventional control systems, new control systems emerging, a healthy, growing distrust of authority, civil unrest, and demands for something else. Even if that something else turns out to be just a new route to take down the dystopian path of the fated technocratic roadmap. Which is to say that while it can all feel like our times are a bit hectic, random, and volatile, anyone with trusted models and a good grasp on a range of reliable cycles would see this runaway train of uncertainty as coming in right on schedule. And of course, one of those fine fellows is our good friend and returning champion of guest appearances, Gordon White of RuneSoup. He joins us having just presented a very thorough and robust course on time magic, including lessons on time beans, finely tuned blended cycle models, and what all the right signs can reliably tell us about these thought-to-be unpredictable times. And thus, it seems like a great time to check in with them, so let's do it. The magic course crafter, blended cycle model maestro, and time lord. Gordon, my man, welcome back as always. Thank you so much. Absolutely, absolutely. And I really did love everything that I found in the time magic course, the I Ching, the profiles, and the prophets and seers who did predict accurately, the appropriate models for our own time, the talk about time beans. And I picked up kind of on a parallel to Magic 101, where you can't jump right into the provocative world of manifesting or nudging the universe towards your goals if you don't have well-defined goals. And that's kind of the boring pre-work part that people don't really want to do. And you have to hone in on them correctly. You got to word them correctly, et cetera, et cetera. With this course, I felt like there was something similar going on where the course aims to teach people how to have a better understanding of time, how to essentially predict what will come to pass by having a better idea of how we relate to time, what time beans even are, and that sort of stuff. Do you feel like there's a similarity? And like there's a lot of pre-work to do before you jump into trying to predict? Because we're conditioned to think about time in a radically different way than natural time should be thought about. It might not be a lot of work so much as it is like a really easy single step, but it's non-obvious. And if you don't do that to start with, then you're kind of lost at the beginning. In that sense, it is very similar to manifestation. And we have in the West, and I'm always interested in this because people will nod along and go, yes, yes, the cosmos is cyclical. Like, yes, yes, linear time, it's a machine project of the Enlightenment. It's not really real. It's not really how the cosmos works. They nod along to that because it's correct, but they still live as if the linear time model works. So I've always been really interested in what magic does or prayer or manifestation or anything invites you to look at the gap between where you are and where you expect to be or want to be. And that gap with manifestation is that inner work. It's typically shadow work of how you've made yourself a match to your current conditions. When it comes to time magic, it's like, well, it might be, I want a better job or I want a wife or I want to own a house, whatever it happens to be. That is distanced from you in time. And so it's like, okay, well, I guess time has got something to do with it. So for me, it is that, yeah, it's an invitation into the gaps. And that process has really changed for me, I would say, over the last decade or so, particularly with sitting in ceremony with ayahuasca and so on, because how you experience time when you're in a psychedelic state is actually probably closer to how time, quote unquote, really is. But then you come back down here and it's like, okay, what do I do with this? Yeah, that's a good framing. And you do have some interesting analogies in there that I never thought much about, like the analogy of astrology being a subset of something else as football is a subset of the idea of sports. There's this higher order idea and then a bunch of different types of sport. And with magic, usually people put astrology in that top category rather than as a subset of something else. And it seems like astrology, this is another thing I found interesting because people ask me this all the time. I'm not even an astrologer, but people constantly are asking, well, you had this guest on this type of astrology and this guest on Vedic astrology. Like, how can they both work? Well, this is kind of getting at how they can both work. They're both models of this other higher category thing. Talk about this because this is pretty interesting. I did a bunch of work on this for Miguel's first astronostic conference in Mexico a couple of years ago, which is astrology is a model that comes from contact with, to describe it shamanically, like the upper world, right? The star beings, whatever you want, right? Heaven. And it's not true. It's a thing that works because there's something true in reality. So when I opened the course, it's a video you'll find on the YouTube channel because it was public. I posed the question, does astrology work because the cosmos is cyclical or is the cosmos cyclical because astrology works? And whichever one of those tracks you go down will make it either easier or harder for you to fold in other time magic systems, other forms of astrology, other forms of prediction. And I understand why completely people who have been ride or die with quote-unquote Western astrology for years, it's always because, I mean, because it works, but they find themselves in it. So whoever first introduced them to astrology and they show them their natal chart and be like, wow, all this stuff, like I feel seen by the cosmos because this is a story of me that works. And very often, because I've been doing this for a long time now, trying to get people to open up from that, they can perceive it as almost like an attack. Like, don't take my astrology from me. No, no, no, I'm making it better. I'm making it like way bigger and you better at it. That's the thing that's always been really interesting to me because I'm reasonably conversant in a couple of different astrological forms. And the further away from the classic Hellenistic Western astrology you get, they still work. So there's Vedic and then there's Chinese and then you jump the ocean. And although we should really call it like Mayan calendar rather than Mayan astrology, by the time you get there, there's very little that looks the same as them and they all work. So how is that? How is that the case? And for me, it is astrology is a system humans have developed through centuries of observation. And what they've been observing is the fact that the cosmos is meaningful and cyclical. I like it. And in that course, you come right out of the gate talking about 40 events, missing people, the Bast Strait, the kind of Bermuda Triangle, I guess, of your neck of the woods. You mentioned time slips and happenings like Philip K. Dick's exogenesis, ballast rabbit hole thing with the Jesus fish. Well, I think we are both fond of looking at the weird anomalous things for clues to the bigger picture when usually people throw those things out. You know, UFOs are an example. You see that and you're like, well, anti-gravity must be a thing. Whereas other people say, well, that can't be real because it violates the physics. It's like, well, maybe you got to change the physics. Well, are there 40 and type things related to time and missing people in this that can give us clues to a better understanding of it by, you know, looking at those outer edge weird things? I think so, because for me, what I like about, well, just personality wise, we like 40 and stuff, right? When you examine the weird and the high strange, you come away with the deep and profound realization that I describe it this way, that the cosmos is a community of beings. That's what it is. Like we are one of the beings in the cosmos. So if that's the case, and this is really true, and I learned this again in the Amazon, the cosmos is communicating and doing stuff with or without us constantly. And in fact, some of our Roman philosophers like Seneca would say like everything is essentially a forecast of everything else. So if you're looking at an oil lamp flickering, you know, in your house, this is Rome, right? It probably means that there's a storm coming. So he kind of had this idea that the cosmos is always essentially communicating between itself. And you get the very limits of that with a 40 and understanding. So for me, astrology is a system that tumbles out of contact events. And not just astrology, like history itself is time magic. So Edward Gibbon, who wrote the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, a very famous, when was that, 1700s book, like basically the first kind of big historical story that involves a decline, but cycles. He experienced time slips of his own. First of all, he got the idea watching Vesper's choral singers in the ruins of the Temple of Jupiter when he visited Rome. And he was struck by like, oh, here's Christianity embedded in a temple to another god, like things must rise and fall and change. But he actually experienced time slips on hills where he knew that there were Roman battles before. And there was one, it's not in the book, but he told it in some of his letters, I think. But he's just there one foggy morning. I think it was in Switzerland, it was, he could hear these like soldiers in the fog around him that plainly weren't there. And so at the edges of tangling with time magic or tangling with time as beings, we find these stories that are like, huh, OK, well, now you've got my attention. Yeah, obviously, I was going to ask you about time as beings, because I can barely maintain headspace for place beings and thought beings. And you say time is a collection of beings that we experience cyclically. And that is kind of a whoa moment if you really sit with it, that time is a collection of beings we experience cyclically. We think of the cyclical stuff is like mechanical kind of like clockwork. These are the analogies often used. I mean, so they say simulation theory because people, what they mean is they see a code embedded in it and they see scripts running and all these things that relate to modern computers. But that's what they're saying. Often we think about the phi ratio as like a bit of that code, but then you would think about a time cycle similarly, but maybe the phi ratio is a being too that's manifesting itself out physically. I'm not sure. But talk to us about time beings, how to think about this differently. So what I've been saying for years is if you sit with the Mayan calendar for a while, I describe it this way. Essentially, all Wednesdays are the one Wednesday. They don't have a seven day week. Think of it, well, actually have two different weeks, but let's just say there's a 20 day calendar called Tzolki. And each of these is a being. You kind of get a similar thing through all the Mesoamerican calendars because it's based on the same idea. But you can see depictions of them in an Aztec context of like the God of time essentially carrying these 20 burdens, like an agricultural worker. But each of these 20 time beings is a being that alters the energetics of the cosmos and comes with lessons. It comes with things you can learn and speak to. And crucially for the Maya in particular, it is one of the essential functions of a human in keeping the cosmos running to attend upon these days. It's called daykeeping, but one of the reasons that the universe hasn't been destroyed is because we welcome and connect to these beings as they cycle around and around. So that's kind of one of the ideas I take from it. We find this in Western magic. So you have a governance of zodiacal signs and days and planets by angelic beings. So in the same way that we have governance of bits of land by angelic beings. So what you're saying there is that the cosmos is made of stuff that has an intelligence and a character. So if you kind of squint, we have, quote unquote, our own version of, okay, so depending on which system you use, but like Sunday is governed by St. Michael, Michael the Archangel. So there's something about Sunday that, like, how does that work? How does that actually functionally work? And does that mean that the quality of Sunday is different to the quality of Friday, which is governed by Anael, so the angel of Venus. Like, okay, now we're starting to feel into this idea of, oh, we did used to know this. We did used to know that there is an intelligence and a feel to beings in the cosmos that aren't just made of stuff because stuff is fake. We know that. There's actually no, like, matter and then other things. It's all the one stuff. And in the Andes, like, where we get the word pacha mama from, pacha means cosmos stuff. Like, it's not just earth. It's place time. It's the combination. It's the stuff that the cosmos is composed of. And so it then kind of follows. It's a bit weird for us after, you know, so long with the enlightenment materialism to understand that the stuff of the universe isn't just how we experience physical matter. It's everything. It's like pacha. It's space time. Yeah, and this is something just from my notes I want to throw out because I thought you said it well, but it kind of gets back to the idea of different forms of astrology working. But you say the goals of this course were to teach how to be better at predicting, of course, and how to just be in this very difficult part of the cycle that is the next few years. And then also to help people understand the full implications of signs, importance, or omens coming from sky country that we have systematized into different types of astrology. And I just thought that was great. I mean, I still wrestle. You mentioned sky country a lot in this course and it's provocative language. We've talked about Magonia before. I love the idea of these, the 40 and things that are in the sky, rotating, floating pyramids and who knows what CGI and what's real at this point. But all those kinds of things are interesting and just omens from sky country and thinking about it like, well, we have these systems of astrology. That's because they're picking up on certain omens in the sky, but they're excluding way more than they're including for their various systems. And you got to look at all of them. And it's our human minds that have systematized them into these different models, as you say. Like whatever you're an expert in, right? Like, let's say you've been studying chemistry for 20 years and you are tasked with teaching some 12-year-olds chemistry. It's like, okay, cool. So the entire world of chemistry, as I know it, has to come down into a system that I can put some kids through so that at the end of it, they kind of know some stuff. But you never, and this is the trouble, like astrology and the rest of them being a second order effect of a profound level of complexity. When I teach card reading, I have this idea called omen logic, which is coming back to that Seneca idea that the cosmos is like doing weird stuff, what appears to be weird to us. They probably think, and they'd be correct, that we're weird because it's like, we're having these idiots noticed what it is we're doing. But the UFO phenomena are like that. It's like teaching algebra to dogs. When beings from sky country UFOs, whatever you want to call them, and try to communicate with us, it'd be like trying to teach algebra to your dog. It's levels of complexity that our puny human minds can't get while we're still in bodies. So the system is always going to have a lot of loss in it so that it can be workable. If you were to build an astrology in Babylon, it's like, okay, cool. So we've just spent centuries looking at the stars, observing comets, observing patterns of plagues and locusts and whatever the hell else is going on from a Sitchin, Anunnaki level. Right. I have to turn around now and teach it to the next generation. And they weren't there for that. So I'm going to have to build a thing that will work most of the time or as best as I can get it. It won't be the real thing, but it will at least be a thing I can convey in the same way that you're trying to teach chemistry to a 12-year-old. It's like, well, you're not going to be out there creating nanothermite, but you might kind of know what happens, why water steams, like why it changes state. So that's kind of how I see things like astrology. It is a workable, imperfect system based on an inconceivable reality. Yeah, man. To think about cyclical models as, as you say, second order results from first order contact events that, yeah, this is their way of trying to communicate something. And it's like, here's astrology or here's a random model or here's, you know, tea leaves or this or that or any system, I suppose. It's like a language that is bizarre and not using words. But if there's bizarre beings out there, they communicate in odd ways, I suppose. And also, shamanically, the upper world or sky country is also the future in the same way that the underworld is the past. That's where we keep the ancestors. So there's something fundamentally significant about upper world contact and its entanglement with what we perceive to be the future, right? Because obviously, however you want to slice it, once we leave these bodies, our experience of time is very, very different. So my favorite of the NDE experiences that has been published is Elizabeth Crone, who wrote a book with Dr. Jeff Kripal. She's been on my show. And when she was on the other side, having been struck by lightning, the whole of the cosmos, she said it was like you could go anywhere in time and it felt like you could slice it like a cake. So you could go up and to the right or forward and to the left to find things. And my first trip into the jungle for an ayahuasca dieta, I was deep in ceremony and was kind of riding ayahuasca as a giant snake, never ending story style. And she was taking me to different parts of my childhood where there was trauma stuff. And so I kind of telepathically convey a memory. She would do the same thing. It would be like going up and to the left. Like she somehow found it and you can call it the Akashic records or just the imprint of time and place. And I remember in ceremony being, oh, this is what Elizabeth was talking about on the show that like future and past and so on. And it's not that the future is predestined necessarily, but there are kind of like relations or dimensions you can get into where it's all kind of happening at once, everything all at once. And so we don't experience it like that down here. We experience it as upper world and we experience it as future and so on. And consequently, any of the systems that we use to try to sense make what it means to be here in the cosmos are going to be genuine, but imperfect attempts at grappling with it. And this is why to answer that when you get asked like, well, how come this one works and this one works for astrology? It's like, well, because they're both imperfect attempts at telling a sacred story. And it makes sense to equate some of this knowledge of models and cycles to contact events, because the contact events that we know about where they are highly visual, you're, you know, the whole going on the craft experience, almost every time they're just like, look at this thing, whether it's insane geometry or some weird map of the cosmos, they're like, look at this. And then they just want to put you back in bed. And so when you think about thought beings, you know, they don't have to be little grays, but thought beings being there and who knows, do thoughts have people? Do people have thoughts? Like someone who has an aha moment or arrives at astrology or a system of it and starts pulling on the thread, you don't know how that's getting in their head. It doesn't have to be an explicit crazy 40 in contact events to be given. But do you know of any model origin stories that sound like explicit crazy contact events? No, what you typically get, let me, I said no too fast. What I'll say first instead is kind of like what you said, you have a UFO experience or a near death experience and they'll come back and they'll be like, oh, when they showed me the weird tea towel with a squiggle on it, that's how time works. Now, let me explain it to you. And it's the craziest fucking thing you've ever heard. This is why we have astrology, by the way, because you get a contact event that's like, I don't know. What do you want me to do with this? They showed me a tea towel with a squiggle on it and they said, this is how time works. And I knew what they meant when I was there. And now that I'm back here, it's like, I got nothing, right? So not explicitly one-to-one, you do find, and I talk about them like Philip K. Dick being a version of it, you do find amongst mystics, almost like a more useful map, but because I really like astrology, like rarely do you get a more useful system than the one that we have that when you see it for what it is, you can update it and yourself. And actually over the last 30 or so years, Western so-called, but like Hellenistic astrology, from the 90s, there was a project of going and looking back at what we could find from the earliest texts in Latin and so on from like the Hellenistic era and incorporating those techniques back into astrology. And whenever we find a new planet like Uranus or what have you, we observe its cycle and then we look back through history, particularly for the outer planets. Like we'll look back at, let's say Uranus's relationship to Saturn, for instance, back through time when it's been opposed, when it's, you know, conjunct and so on to see if we could find things. And we build the character and signification of that planet based on going backwards in time and looking at the cycle of it. So astrology allows you, if you treat it correctly, it updates and thus gets quote unquote better, but only if you let it be what it is, which is what we're talking about. Yeah, obviously a greater sample size of events builds out a specific, but a little bit broader thing. Not everybody who has a bad temper is angry that day, but you can look at a trend and be like, this person's prone to anger in traffic. And also in this instance and that instance, but not so much this other instance, like the more examples you get. Yeah, exactly. And that kind of works from a forecast perspective as well, particularly if you're thinking about it magically. And the metaphor I use in the course is tornado weather. So you can forecast tornado weather with a high degree of accuracy, but that doesn't mean you'll get a tornado, but you definitely got tornado weather. And that's another invitation to open up how you understand astrology, which is like, oh, we're in a time of whatever it happens to be increased risk of civil unrest or war or what have you. We might not get it, but we definitely got the increased risk. And something like a tornado weather model or metaphor is useful, I think, for opening it up for people so that they don't go like, oh, well, astrology said this would happen and it didn't. So fuck astrology. It's like, yeah, OK, I think you might be there's some babies in that bathwater still. No, that's great. I actually had to write down tornado weather because it's going in the title because really it's a great bridge to the geopolitical presentation. Like this whole first half hour is us talking about time and cycles to kind of show that they exist, that they are reliable, that they might even be alive. I mean, this is a uniquely you kind of thing. I can't talk to the next guest about time magic, but, you know, it helps to when we're going to talk about the things in the geopolitical presentation and the roadmap ahead. And we've talked about this before when we're talking about long arcs. So if you're talking about something that's coming three years from now and we've been talking about it a couple of years, it doesn't mean, you know, the whole thing of like, well, broken clock is right twice a day. Eventually you're going to be right. Well, no, you've been saying the dates on these things, but the reason why is because of these models, because you are very into a blended cycle model and you have different systems that you see working and you put them all integrated together and you add conspiracy tendencies and the conspiratorial mind and looking at how a technocracy behaves. And that's like another component that a lot of people miss. As you know, the magical community can be quite conspiracy averse, which is quite odd, but I see it all the time. It is now. Yeah. In the 20th century, it wasn't like, if you think about the magical Renaissance of the 20th century, late 20th century was built on the shoulders of Robert Anton Wilson and his rediscovery of things like Crowley and what have you didn't used to be there. It's just when conspiracies became obvious and people lose their fucking minds, mostly because people end up in something like magic as a cope, as a cope for an unremarkable life or as a cope for not functioning correctly. And so if you keep it at a hobby level, it becomes cope. And as the world gets worse, people retreat into their copes. So yes. Funnily enough, talking about astrology and forecasting and let's say the election, I was watching some cope videos of astrologers who were like, well, how did I get that so wrong? And apparently about 75% went Harris and 25% went Trump. I'm using that as a ratio, just as a guess of like 25% of people in magic are in it for the magic, as far as I could tell, 75% are in it for the cope. So there we go. Yeah. It's really interesting. Probably why it's goth fashion adjacent, because it's the way people look at goth people. Exactly. And I won't pretend I didn't have a, we'll chalk that up to a phase, goth, Satanist, moment in my teenage years as well. I grew up in regional Australia. Of course I did. I grew up in a coal mining town in New South Wales in the nineties. Of course they had a phase, right? And I forgive myself for it in the sense of like, well, I needed that. I needed to differentiate and feel special. And I needed to rage against the world somewhat because the world around me was ass. Of course. So I say it without judgment, but I say it to like wake people up of like, well, hang on. And if you're still dressed like the goth character in Portlandia now, there's some inner work, there's some shadow work there. And if that's like, oh no, I've done the shadow work. I like looking like this. Go for it. There's a bunch of people in magic who are like, oh, am I doing this as cope? How much of it is cope? Right, right. And so the tornado weather analogy, I like it for this kind of thing because you can see that the storm is coming, but you know, you might not be able to see exactly where tornadoes will land or how it will manifest. And that gets into kind of the more practical goal of your course, which is teaching people how to be with this stuff. And there is a wide range of feelings about the red wave election and the claims that Trump is making. I find it entertaining, congressional term limits, banning corporate executives from positions in regulatory agencies, Bitcoin as a strategic reserve asset, capping credit card rates at 10%, which is like the most democratic policy ever. Like I'm surprised it's not a Harris thing, but you know, filling various cabinet positions with really exciting people and previous THC guests who we might've put in the Earth Keepers episode we did. But you sort of say, look, the cycle's the cycle, collapse is coming. If you're focused on if his suit is red or blue, you're missing the point. Yeah. If you think of cycle models as wave models instead, you can impact amplitude. So where we are in the cycle is where we are in the cycle. Now, what I mean by that is, I mean, you have a tropical homestead thing going on. And I live somewhere colder than that. If I put tomatoes in, in late autumn or late fall, nothing will happen. Actually, they have to go in basically just before midsummer because we still get frost. But the point is where two decades or more, actually more, but like where the Western civilization, in this case, the United States is in the cycle is late fall, late autumn. And we can be very excited about putting tomatoes in. It just is what it is. Now, he's saying a lot of good stuff. Very little of it is going to come off. Not because he's, I mean, he's a narcissist who's lying. That's fine. But like, not because of that. It's because like, he's bringing someone who's had like half their family killed by the same people that he's now going up against. And it's like, come on now. Like, all this stuff sounds great. Let's get some of it across. It's like having Joel Salatin somewhere associated with the FDA, incredible. And if you get 5% of it before we end up in World War III and national divorce, it's better than no percent of it. So when we talk about where we're heading, it doesn't mean black pill. It means we can't alter the cycle, but we can adjust its amplitude. We can make it less, to paraphrase Tina Turner, we can do this nice or rough. So we could go through this part of the cycle nicer or rougher. And also the other thing is, because when we're recording is almost mid-November, January 20 is a long way off. And so those 75% of astrologers who picked Harris, it's early days. But regardless, that would still be an example of like, oh yeah, well, of course, because we're heading into the civil unrest model. Like, it's just going to be hectic chaos from a political perspective. The things that he wants to do, you would struggle to do in the mid-20th century when there was civility in politics and the corruption wasn't total. Now they're calling each other Hitler, trying to kill each other. And this is when you want to demolish this demented system. Good luck, sir. Definitely. But it's more like, not so much don't blackpill, but don't let the inevitable vicissitudes of what's coming impact your flow or your autonomic system too much. Hope for the best. Manage your expectations. Find which part of it is yours to do. And it's really interesting straight after an election, because I noticed it with the blue team last time. There is an upswell of confidence and energy and excitement. Like if you voted red and your red team got in, it's like, yeah, let's do all this kind of stuff. That's good. Like, enjoy that for the week or so. But when that high ends, which it inevitably will, make sure that you're sense-making correctly for the direction that we're going. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And the thing is that like the excitement around those potential policy changes, those radical swings, I mean, the implications that people think, well, if we can just get these things done, we'll fix the system and we can go back to normal. Like that's the thinking that would be wrong. You can be excited about like, oh, look at that interesting change, but it doesn't stop the technocracy from coming. It just kind of changes the way it's implemented. And we can talk about, you know, how it might be implemented now that there's a stake in the ground on this fork in the road. And we know which direction it goes, but I kind of have been thinking about it. The amplitude example is good because I've been thinking about it like a breakup. It's like you are going to break up. Fate is determined. You two are not meant to be together. But how bad is the breakup going to be? How much pain are you going to endure? How many times are you going to cry in the car saying, don't leave me before you have to eventually accept it and just like get through it? Because like the predictable point would be that there's going to be a breakup, but you know, it can be painful or painless depending on, I guess, the amplitude can be different depending on how you approach it. And there's also relationships after that. So for people who are looking for the upside right now, we have in public discourse in a way that no one ever expected. Oh, maybe we don't need income tax. Maybe our food should not give our children obesity at the age of two. Radical ideas that aren't going to fix this system. This system is going away, but the ideas won't. So if you're looking for what is yours to do at the moment, this is real shamanism actually, because shamanism is that tangling with thought beings dimensionality. It's like, okay, cool. Well, this is all ending. What are the things we want to bring with us to the next configuration? Because by the end of the 2030s, we have something that looks more like decentral direct democracy. We just have to get through the collapse of this bullshit that we're all laboring underneath at the moment. What do we take with us? Do we take direct democracy? Do we take robust local food systems? Do we take fuck income tax? Like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, right? So there are still things for you to align with and things for you to get behind and things for you to share and carry that energy and that relationship to those thought beings through this. So there's a real moment of opportunity here. Things absolutely do get better again. That's the real medicine of a cycle is like, yeah, we're just in like a shit part now, but the good part, it's still coming, right? What do you contribute to that? Like, what if I told you, you do get to redesign society in the 2030s? Like, what kind of food system and political system do you want? Because guess what? I think that's going to happen. I think we literally do have to redesign how we relate to each other politically and economically in about eight years time, a bit more. And so there's good news here. Just be sure that you're getting behind the right good news and not the news that will disappoint you. Right, right. And the two big things that are going to dominate the next bad eight years or so are World War Three and technocracy. It seems like those are the two things. It's like they kind of overlap. When is peak war and when is peak technocracy? Or do they overlap exactly one to one? Or do you put the peaks at different points? What do you think? So one of the reasons the West is going to eventually end up in World War Three, which it's pushing for, is to cancel its debt. You will earn nothing and be happy. It has nothing to do with you guys and mortgages and credit cards. It allows for governments to cancel their own debt. And so you do that with a war. And at the end of a war, you have a Bretton Woods moment, which is going, the plan is an IMF coin. And this is how countries essentially fund each other post-war. So they're the same thing in that respect, because an IMF coin is obviously a worldwide digital currency, which is the same thing as Catherine Ross and Fitz would say. Like, it's not a digital currency. It's a control grid. So every time you hear digital currency, you think control grid or free-range totalitarianism. So in that sense, they're the same, right? And they're the same because the people who are in power at this point in the cycle, this is how they think. There's not like a secret cabal of, I don't know, trans-Luciferian robot worshippers. It's actually just, this is the inevitable fulfillment of this managerial industrial idea. There is no one anywhere. And the same thing if you're expecting, for God's sake, Putin and Xi to save you because like, oh, you know, they went for the injections. They have their own digital currencies. It's because this is how people think at this point in history. That's just the power of it. So you will still need to sense make and understand amongst the premium membership, I talk about exploring points of consent and departure. We kind of know broadly what's going to happen. We know broadly that we're going to head in the direction of digital IDs and digital currency and increased surveillance. And probably, although less of that now I expect, particularly if, why can't we just make Joel Salatin president? Like, particularly if you get Joel Salatin in, but you kind of know that the plan with this system is to moderate your behavior towards what they think is correct, where you can travel, what you can eat and so on. And it's like, okay, well, what am I doing to not defend against or resist that? Because that's going to happen. It's going to fail. But like the implementation is going to happen, at least partially and ham-fistedly in different ways. So it's like, well, am I okay with going, oh, I can't be bothered. What am I consenting to? What am I departing from? And how am I doing that? It's that same idea of like a forecast model can give you that. It's like, right, we're heading in this direction. No presidential candidate of any kind will save us from that. But the pieces and thought beings and stuff that is in play now is in play. What am I doing? What is my role in this? How am I involved in the things that we know are still going to happen? And yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, the conversations I've been having, a lot of people feel like technocracy is going to pump the brakes because that was a liberal thing. And it's the nanny state that wants to control everything. And this is more of a libertarian direction that we've just done this massive mandate, as Trump says, to go this direction. But I think a good example that you point out is the U.S. illegal immigration thing. A crisis has been presented and the solve, as you've said, is to remove 12 million people from the land of the free. Now, what does that actually look like in real terms? Well, I wrote these questions before I had an actual quote that I sent you a little bit ago. But, you know, is it biometric scanning? Is it hordes of police roaming the streets? Is it people hiding in closets and being extracted from their homes? Like, these 12 million people are not going to just line up and say, all right, put me in the van. But it looks a little Nazi-ish if you really think about how it would be achieved. And I'm not saying, like, illegal immigration should be a crime. I feel like I couldn't just go to a lot of European countries. Like, it's fine. The scary thing is these people, especially because the candidate who won in a landslide campaigned on it, these people, that's like a privately funded army you guys got invaded with. I agree they have to go. Think about how you implement that. And you implement it with a digital ID. So what I spoke about in the presentation. So the thing is, this is kind of cultural stuff, but the people who are most obsessed with technocracy tend to be on the libertarian right. So they think of technocracy as the things that they don't like. And I don't like that stuff either. I don't want the stuff that we're planning, like the CBDC that won't work on beef and whatever. Like, I don't want that either. However, comma, pause, there is a right version of it or a blue terror as well, which is, this is the only thing they know how to do is technocrat. So now that the right team is in, it's like, well, we've got to get rid of 13 million illegals from the country. That means we need to know who's legal and who is not. That means we need an ID. That means you need to have the ID on you at all times. Follow the logic of it. And you still end up in a system of like, oh, I'm not super happy about this because now we have that total surveillance. And it's the same thing as, I mean, I'm not too sure you guys get too many more elections that involve 50 exact states. But if you build that, the next people will use it for the thing they want to use it for. And they're going to build it. So it's all well and good to say, well, we've got to use the surveillance system to assist in the removal of the illegals from the United States. Great. Are you going to switch it off? Right, right. And then the next candidate is a liberal candidate. And they're like, oh, look at this gift we have. We want to use this to make sure people aren't saying bad things online. And, you know, I mentioned the quote is because, you know, I wrote some of this out. And then as I was waiting for this to start, I stumbled across what one of Trump's he's doing these little soundbite five minute videos on here's the 10 point plan for this, that and the other. Well, he just said in one today, we will finally complete the biometric entry exit visa tracking system, which we need desperately. It will be on land, sea and air. We will have a proper tracking system. And it's like, I didn't really hear that before people voted for you. It wasn't worded in those terms. And you can't argue with the logic. It's like, well, you did elect me to get rid of these people. How do you want me to do that? How do you want me to police a border, which I promised to do? This is what I mean. Like the logic of governance at this point of the timeline tends technocratic, regardless of who is in charge. And it's a whisper and a gasp before that biometric system gets used for, and the same thing with like, you know, election integrity, which is also a problem. It's like, okay, cool. So why don't we just use that biometric ID? We're so close to having it rolled out one way or the other, which is why I, it's THC, so it's fine. I like to put on the conspiracy hat as part of the forecasting and take it off as well so that you don't, because you get a clearer picture when you can say, well, is this a plan or is this just things being completely fucked? And this is why I mentioned January 20 is still a long way off. I feel like the blue team gave up about a week and a half. I mean, it was a ridiculous campaign. They were never going to win, but I feel like when you compare it to the last time Trump won, there's no pussy hats. Everyone's just kind of like, oh, okay. Something, what that means is that at a super elite level, there are people who've decided that the thing that they need to achieve is better achieved with a Trump presidency. And I don't know what that is yet because it's early days, but I'm like, okay, so we need a red team for the next phase in what Catherine Fritz would call like Mr. Global's plan, I guess. And I'm not sure what that is yet. And that's the taking the hat on and off of like, okay, we still don't have the pieces yet to see where that's going. And I guarantee whether things are fucked up or whether it's part of the plan that it will involve a moving forward of technocracy because it's not just the inevitability of his campaign promises. Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, the rich people that this rich person's surrounded him with are full on for this stuff. Man, that is a great way to think about it. Because of course we are seeing the individual meltdowns. Like you're seeing all kinds of great TikTok meltdowns and lefties losing it, that chick from Sky News. I love watching those compilations. But that's different from an organized pussyhat protest. That's different than something that comes from the top down and moves people out on the board. So many protest movements are well-funded and they come from the top down. Ready to go. Yeah. They're not people grassroots organizing themselves. And so the fact that they didn't roll something out for that, as you say, it's like, yeah, it's evidence that this is okay to them. Yes. Or, and I think it's both, I think that we're expecting some lawfare. At the time we're recording, it's not 100% that the Republicans have got the house. If they don't have the house, there are scenarios like refusing to certify and so on that can be rolled out between here and there. And that's the bit where it's like, okay, everyone, I was expecting more pussyhats. Like tornado weather, it's pussyhat weather and there are no pussyhats. Now that means that at the Soros funding level, what have they got up their sleeve? Other than the fact that we can resign ourselves to the reality that if Trump does survive and get to become president again, the pushback, it's interesting, it's not cultural. And I'm sitting with this, like there's no pussyhats. The pushback is all infrastructural. So it's California talking about resourcing their attorney general to stop anything that Trump wants to do. All that kind of infrastructural pushback and not cultural pushback. So yes, there's more to play for here. I think there's other stuff going on behind the scenes as it always is, but it's just not clear what that is yet. Yeah. And we've talked before about why Martin Armstrong is a forecaster to follow, but he recently was saying that it seems like, I guess Trump gets maybe two years. He said Q1 of 2025 does not look great. He talked about the war cycle and you can attest that the war cycle lines up with other cycles, astrological cycles, cosmic cycles. And it seems like you and him say 2026 war in Europe, 2027 war everywhere. Pretty much. And by the end of 2025, that will be obvious. I mean, it's obvious now, but like by the end of 2025, as far as I can tell. So astrologically, what's happening, it's started happening, but over the next few months is all the slower moving outer planets change sign. Now that's like essentially a big reality update. We also have, when you look at the US Sibley chart, so the birth chart for the United States that's most commonly used, there's a bunch of very important returns, like a Uranus return and a Pluto return, which is where these outer planets are returning to the same place in the sky, the stuff that, revolutionary stuff and world war stuff that's happened in the US's history, because we've been talking about it since forever. And I've been talking about it in my astrology episodes from the beginning of this decade. It's like mid to late 2020s is when we get the world war three stuff and the civil unrest stuff. And we're just here. That's where we are now, right? Like it's obvious to us from the end of 2024, that 2025 is not going to be an easy year politically. We may get a cooling off of what appears to be looming world war three. But as far as I can tell, if Trump gets to become president, that means that the agitators inside the West for world war three will move their center of gravity from trying to control the presidency, which they got with the potato and America's wine mum. And they'll move that to Europe and to NATO because the need for war in Europe for Europeans is more acute because their debt problem is bigger and so on. So I would expect if it were me in charge of trying to start world war three by goading Russia, I would move my plans essentially to Europe and I would false flag in Poland or somewhere that would force NATO countries to come in. So what that does is does give us a reprieve. And why that's important is from the beginning, well, it's from about the middle of this year, because the way Martin Armstrong works is not just he has his own forecasting model. He also knows everyone because he's been working in, you know, finance and currency and hedge funds and whatever for 50 years. So he knows all the central banks and politicians and whatever. And he was being told that from about May onwards of this year that the neocon faction was trying to start world war three in advance of a potential Trump presidency, because they felt that their plans for that war would be at risk if he became president. So they were trying desperately, but that was what like the incursions to Russia were, this desperate attempt to escalate it before they kind of like lose control of the White House. So we still have till January 20 for them to come up with something. But if they don't, and he does get to be president, those plans will move to Europe, but it cools it off. And I thought that was very interesting because he'd been saying from the beginning of the decade, world war three is in that 26, 27 range. And that's where the astrology looks. But then this year he was saying they're trying to start it now. And that was, I publicly said in the prior geopolitics presentation for the members. I'm like, this will be an interesting test of almost like a fate versus free will thing where the model astrology and all the rest of it is saying, we've still got a year and a bit, but there are people who are trying to start it now. And I mean, when I say, let's see who wins, it's not a great game, but we will at least watch and see what happens. Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes back to your tomato planting example. It's like, you can play with it a little bit. You can plant a little bit early and hope that it comes together. It might not. You know, it's a risk reward thing and it's a probability thing. You know, you have a best probability. Now you had a 50% less probability a month ago, and that's probably how a lot of these things work. But I guess my point with laying out the timeline is just to give people a solid idea of what it is and really to say, don't gas out too early because the real show hasn't even started. And so many people I know are like really exhausted. And the election is a little bit of reprieve between, you know, now and January to just be like, well, at least we're not doing the election thing. Like, it seems like a rest period. And it is. And so the other thing about, this is also very shamanic, but you have to operate in the right story if you want infinite energy. So what my teacher Alberto would say is until you step into the right healing journey or healing story, nothing will work. Once you step into the right healing story, everything will work. And if you are exhausted with, and I understand, good Lord, if you're exhausted with the political narrative and the, I can't do any more of this, you're trying to seek your preferred future in the wrong story. Okay. So what we're doing, this is a big part of the time magic course, is leveling up to stepping into a sacred story of what it is you've come to earth to do. Rather than pinning your hopes for what you would like for a future on whether blue team or red team gets in. Like, let's jump it up and be like, okay, what did I come here to do? What is mine to do? How do I contribute? So my, Charles Eisenstein has a prayer that I love. May I be put to good use? Like, okay. Step into the story where it's like, oh, I came to earth for this in this time, at least partially for these things. I'm pretty sure, although some people have, it's not to like die in a Kinzai missile strike. I don't know. But when you are feeling that exhaustion and then, oh God, I can't do another, however long of this, that's a call to realize you are operating in the wrong story and to step into the sacred story of like, oh, I came to earth. And you can kind of be a bit alien about it to be like, look at these puny humans and their idiotic ways. But that's a turn inwards. That's okay. I'm exhausted. Have I been trying to secure soul business, let's say in the political realm? That's disgusting. Don't do that. Jump up, like operate from a sacred story. Yeah, that is really great because I recently interviewed a psychiatrist about all the problems of predatory psychiatry and the side effects of the medications and everything. And he basically said, look, depression, first off, no one ever uses the word sadness anymore, but depression and sadness. That's a signal from your body to change something about your life, your shitty relationship, your bad job. It's a signal to change something. You don't take a pill to shut the signal off and then just go on doing the same thing. That's what those medications are for a lot of people. And you could say something similar about a feeling of exhaustion. That's a signal that says, hey, maybe you've been too vested in what's on the TV and this outward story and not enough vested in what you're doing. And this kind of lines up with right where we are. But I think I pulled this from the sub stack, but it's about the Joseph Campbell stuff. And this phrase myth shows us how to live a human lifetime under any circumstances. You say there's a base level of understanding to that because man's motivations and desires don't really change from age to age. So there's a repeatability of stories within a human lifetime. But then there's a higher level. And on that level, you get access to a wise council of living beings operating outside of time who have seen everything come and go because they are everything that comes and goes. These metaphysical premises constitute the necessary unlock. The earth or the cosmos itself has an imagination. It is not in you. You are in it. There is a place where your imagination and the earth's blend or overlap. And there are protocols and axioms that make that blend work better. Okay. Well, what are some of those protocols and axioms? So this is a weird sink in a way, I guess. I knew there was a line in your episode with Jeff Kripal from about a year ago, from December of last year, because I remember listening to it when I was driving to Hobart. And he said this thing. It's weird. Like, I remembered that I needed to remember it. And so I actually went and found it. Wow. I went and found it. And he's talking about this similar idea, because I love Dr. Jeff. He's one of my favorite thinkers and favorite podcast guests of my own. And he's talking about the realm of the human imagination. And he's talking about how you guys were having a discussion about UFOs and all the rest of it. And he says that they interface with us through the human imagination. So whatever realm they're in interfaces with ours through the human imagination. Now, that's a Neoplatonic idea that I'll come back to in a minute, because those are the protocols I'm talking about. But the line that he said that I remembered to remember was, there are some beings that can only access us through our imagination. I would say Gandalf is like a being that, well, the being behind Gandalf can only access us through Sir Ian McKellen or the human imagination. And I mean, huge Tolkien fan, obviously, but the imaginal realm contains Arda, contains Middle Earth and the rest of it. And that's like the stuff that's in Middle Earth. Tolkien knew this. It's like, where did this come from? I didn't do this. This is somewhere out there. That's what I mean by these thought beings in the imaginal. You unlock them by realizing, oh, they have some kind of reality, right? So you unlock them by developing a, and it's almost like you want to be able to fit it on an index card. How do I think the human imagination works? I think the cosmos, and so it's like line one, the cosmos has an imagination that we are embedded in. Humans have a personal imagination that interacts with, like overlaps like a mangrove swamp at the edges with the imagination of the cosmos. And it's in that liminal mangrove swamp area that we can interact with beings that can be gods or Gandalf or what have you. And this is an idea from my favorite of my own show. I had a guy on, Professor Shaw, to talk about Iamblichus, who was one of the Neoplatonic philosophers. And Iamblichus has this idea, which is that, and this is why when they're doing ceremonial work in the Hellenistic era, my experience of Hecate might be different to your experience of Hecate. It's because, well, this is a being that can only interact with you at the edges of your human imagination, at your mangrove swamp, rather than mine. So outside the mangrove swamp, in the imagination of the cosmos, there is Hecate. But as she interacts with you, it's going to come through or experience differently. So they have findings that are based on experience of how we can solve things that I think don't need to be solved in theory. Because we've had such a damaging job done by the Enlightenment and materialism on our theory of mind. And once you heal that, you look backwards and go, oh, okay, so the answers to why my Hecate is different to your Hecate have already been found. And they work once you step into the right healing story. Once you step into the story of the cosmos has an imagination of which you are embedded and at the edges of your human imagination is where you interface with these absolutely real beings, some of whom, Dr. Jeff Krippel, can only interact with you in the imagination. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I mean, even just regular people, you might be friends with someone for a long time and then meet someone else who says, oh, well, I met that guy and it wasn't anything like that. People still have variants too. You know? Exactly. So add that layer of complexity to an already complex situation. Man, right on. Well, it's been a pleasure, as always, give people the RuneSoup pitch and tell them about any newer upcoming stuff in the mix. Nice one. So RuneSoup.com, although I will say Substack, which is completely free, is the place to go now because I'm just giving up on the open internet. It's too difficult. Not really, but I'm actually writing again and I'm writing on Substack and it's free. It will always be free. You get everything there. And of course, the podcast and so on. But the main way of getting it, my actual writing is there. RuneSoup.Substack.com, I think, or Substack slash RuneSoup. You can find it. You're smart. Yeah. I'll put a link out there. And yeah, I really love the Substack writing. I'm glad you're getting back to the blogging thing. You took a break for a while. I mean, you have to. These courses are so in-depth. I think there's 70 plus. And as you say, Time Magic, it'll be done when this releases, I think, but it's not done yet. And there's 70 plus lessons in the plan. And this is one of close to a dozen courses? More than that now. Yeah. God. Yeah. You do a lot. You're the hardest working man in magic. And this was a lot of fun. Breaking down Revelation's business plan, as you've said before. Thanks, as always. I hope we get to see each other in 2025, but we'll figure it out. Yeah, we will. I feel that. I think that's going to happen. Okay. Well, take care. Until then. Thanks again. And boom goes the dynamite, the great and powerful Gordon White. You know him. You love him. I'm a serious THC staple and somebody who I can depend on to have a thoughtful reaction to any election outcome, as well as adding some added dimensionality to the whole thing. And the Time Magic course being as good as it was, I knew there would be a lot to talk about and we could do the whole Trump weave between magical and the practical, and I hope you had a good time. I turned this around pretty quickly because things are moving so fast that even a day or two can really change perceptions of how this new administration is going to go, because it's all about those appointments. I think it's clear from the Ryan Christian episode that I tried really hard not to prejudge and at least be fair about it. But some of these appointments are in, and it's 50-50, but a good chunk of them suck. Here's what Ron Paul had to say. Yesterday was a bad day for those who endorse America first in our foreign policy, with reported Trump appointments of neocons, Elise Stefanik, Mike Waltz, and Marco Rubio. Many who hoped that Trump 2.0 would be different than Trump 1.0 are feeling dejected and betrayed. Is there any hope left? Also today, Iran strongly denied any plan to assassinate Trump. So who's lying? Yeah, I think he has his finger on the pulse with some of that, even though that Elise chick, the U.S. ambassador choice, I don't even know who she is, but I trust Ron Paul to a large degree. He's one of the few voices in politics that I do take seriously. And I think they really want to keep people focused on RFK and gates and goofy stuff like Doge. But don't pay attention to the neocon appointments being secured in positions that actually get us into war. And I was just thinking I probably should have used different words in the intro because our times are hectic and volatile, but they're just not random. They're predictably hectic and volatile. And as we get closer to the big show, some of these predictions and forecasts might start to seem obvious, as they should. It's kind of the nature of being right. But I can take this stuff back to the event Gordon and I did in Austin. That was us talking about this stuff like, what, two years ago, I think. The message hasn't changed much. And I can go back even further than that to Gordon and Austin Coppock's Portland event. And they were both saying, we don't really see a return to normal. We just get crazier. And that was another two years before the other event that I mentioned. Yeah, that was September 2019. I mean, wow. Little did we know how crazy it would get. Although I guess the stars were hinting pretty hard. And I know Gordon has spent a good amount of time talking about forecasting in general and being kind of a magical person and how a lot of the magical community, they're so stuck in their political bubble that it taints their abilities. And they really have a responsibility to the universe to be honest. Forecasters, you know, you can't just sugarcoat things because of your political affiliation or how you want things to go. Technically, if you're skilled in this area, it's a gift from the universe. And you have a job to do. As we talked about, everybody has a job to do. This would be the magician, the forecaster's job to do. And so many of them don't do it. Instead, they waste their time with Trump binding spells and all that. But the point is that forecasters of negative events do get a lot of shit because people don't want to hear that, number one. And number two, sometimes it's interpreted as an endorsement, but it's not what Gordon wants to happen. It's what looks like will happen. Don't shoot the messenger and all that. But we know the history of forecasters and fortune tellers and astrologers telling people in power bad news that usually doesn't go very well. I mean, just look to foundation for a really good example of that. But this whole thing we talked about, it also syncs up pretty well with Bibu Dev Misra and his Yuga Shift book and that whole interview. And I really do objectively think that Gordon folds in the best material out there. And when it all lines up with the same sort of story, you have to sit up and pay attention. Martin Armstrong, I don't think, cares much for astrology as far as I know. And astrology definitely doesn't factor in Martin Armstrong's geopolitical models, but they tell the same tale. And you can go watch Gordon's actual geopolitical presentation for a lot of added detail about financial cycles and how things will be affected in Europe versus the United States. But to me, the headline is 2026 major war in Europe and 2027 major war everywhere. I wouldn't panic. Obviously, people lived through two world wars in the past, but I think it's a good practice to consider how limited our time is anyway. This only adds a layer to it and consider the next year or two the best time to position yourself for a few hard years after that. Save as much as you can. I've actually considered getting an order of Patriot Supply just to keep in a closet. Maybe that's a little paranoid, but it's an inexpensive security measure. Iodine, like we talked about in January, focus on breaking bad addictions and forming healthy habits. Like when here in Florida, we had those recent hurricanes and lost power. I started to think about how resources were just not available. I didn't really need anything, but there would be days where the kids would be getting kind of rough jumping around. And I think, man, if one of them broken arm or something, there's nowhere to go. And it was really hard to find gas for like a full week, maybe even 10 days. And that really gets you thinking about rationing and limiting your travel. I know people who spent the last quarter of a tank just driving from gas station to gas station, being told they were all out. I'm not expecting Armageddon. I'm only saying this recent hurricane kind of acted as a little stress test for me. COVID might've been a stress test for everybody, but how often do you need a hospital? Sometimes it can't be helped, but I guess you should just plan to be on your own for a while or develop that local network. I'm always talking about because just not being brainwashed is half the battle. It's good to know other people that won't need to update their entire model of reality during a period of crisis. Also people you can share resources with trade with do commerce with outside of the tightly controlled surveillance grid. You want to know people who also want to avoid all that as well. My go-to resources that are applicable to the widest number of people listening would be find your local Weston a price chapter. You can become a member of the overarching organization and they'll send you a buyer's guide, which is great. But the local chapters will also provide you with local health food resources and a guide to where to get the good stuff. And most of them do think like us. I would also say, check out Derek Brose's freedom cells network in your area. I looked both when I was in Southern California and here in Florida, and I didn't see much, but that's the nature of networks. If the people don't come and don't provide the material and the content, then you really have nothing. But I'm sure there are some good freedom cells out there. Maybe there's some near you. And then third, you have the THC meetup option. The great thing about THC meetups is it's not so much a platform that you have to log in and treat it like a social media network. You just make the event and I act as the conduit that other people will hear. It's like the bat signal. It is good to log in to RSVP and let a host know you're coming, but that's a little different than having to be active on a social media ish platform. But also check out the no agenda meetup calendar because they're a very adjacent show. And I think they probably have 5x, maybe 10x the volume as we do on our meetup calendar. It's a little more baked into their whole brand over there. And of course, that is where I stole the idea from, too. But either way, the fact that Gordon's latest course was time magic right at a time when he's also updating the geopolitical models, it really worked out. And I think it made for a good interview where we talk about forecasting in general and that it's not really about changing what happens. It's about changing your orientation to stormy weather or tornado weather. That's a great analogy. The second hour plus show, of course, hit on a lot of important stuff, too. Plague stars and the disease cycle. I thought that was really interesting. The value of the I Ching. Gordon's Lenormand deck and the reading I did for this conversation, which also, I think, spoke to the importance of making those local connections and building out the network. We also talked about why America is Atlantis and why it will fall similarly. We talked about how to be with all this and how to find what is ours to do now. The necessity of shadow work and how to conspire. Become a plus member and stop missing half the show. You know the deal. Although some people recently did complain to me and say I should switch to a value for value model. I get that kind of advice every once in a while. First off, I would say, do you think it's easy to change models of a show like this that you're doing? I'm pretty committed to the thing I got going on. And I laugh because when people say value for value, they get that from no agenda. They absorb that pitch and they think like, oh, maybe I should tell Greg about it, too. And it's like, honestly, I love no agenda. One of the few shows I never miss. But they spend a lot of time making fun of the subscription model. And they also spend a lot of time bitching about months where donations are low just as often. I sometimes think they're projecting. But when picking a model, there's really only three factors that were important to me. Free from outside influence. So no ads or sponsors. Reliable, consistent income. So we don't have these wild swings that are hard to plan a life around. And thirdly, take as little of the audience's time as possible. Every single show you listen to will have a call to action ask of some kind or it's full of ads, which is essentially the same thing. But if those are the three factors that are important, subscription wins every time. 30 to 40 percent of every No Agenda episode is thanking individual donors and everyone I know skips that part, which is harder to skip than ads because you really don't know when it's over. If they did the same show and they both brought 10 clips per episode and just did a free plus split of five and five first hour, second hour or 90 minutes, 90 minutes, whatever, they would have a much tighter show and more consistent income because I'd certainly pay to extend that. But, you know, whatever. I'm the idiot. Also, in higher side news, the THC signed outline auction is still going on. The first round of listings is already up. We do have winners. The highest bids went for, of course, Dr. Hillman and also Analog and Chris Knowles. But yes, someone is now the proud owner of my Dr. Hillman outline. And that is a wild one. Some of the listings were actually removed by eBay just for the titles. One was Joseph Farrell. All I put was Joseph Farrell, Rudolph Hess and just Rudolph Hess's name can't be in a listing on eBay, apparently. I mean, he was a Nazi, but there's many different uses of a single name. But so be it. I think the first 20 listings are complete and there's like 62 active listings left to go with like 48 hours left on them. A lot of people did snag one for the minimum bid, which is 30 bucks. Seems like a fair deal. And I'm stuffing envelopes next week for the ones who got them. $30 adds up fast when you're selling 70 items. So I'm not complaining either. And next we get into the rating of the last episode. And that's Ryan Christian of The Last American Vagabond clocking in at a 4.4. A little low, but I understand a lot of people had feelings right after the election. And if the interview didn't match those feelings, it probably got dinged. And it's funny because a lot of people love Ryan and then a lot of people also see him as blackpilled or a better way to say it might be that he's just very noncommittal on things, which I get with so much manipulation. It's hard to determine what facts and narratives are the real ones. But when a guy gives so many caveats before making any point, there's people out there who find that to be annoying. So I see both sides. I do think the plus show was a lot better when we got over the election stuff and talked about specific toxic disasters and geopolitical moves. That's a bit more his strong suit. And we talked about several things that barely even make it into the news cycle. So I liked it. I like Ryan, but I understand the 4.4. I think today's show is a lot more up the THC alley and we will see how it shakes out in the ratings. And then, of course, the meetup calendar. HigherSideMeetups.com. Make one. RSVP. If you hear one near you, you know the deal. On deck. We got November 17th. Oh, that's today. Moundsville, West Virginia. November 21st. Kanaan, New Hampshire. Poorhouse Barbecue. November 22nd. Tampa, Florida. The Sale Plaza. I'm very much going to try to make that, though I did just find out that my wife's friends who are visiting don't leave until the day after that. So we'll see what they have planned with their kids. Maybe they're going to go to Disney or something and I can sneak out. But I don't want to overhype. November 23rd. Grand Rapids, Michigan. Kitchen, 67. And then moving on to December on the 9th. It's Auckland, New Zealand at Gail Breaths Ale House. And December 21st, bar none, in Denver, Colorado. Good deal. The more events, the better. Connect while you can. But that's the show. So there still are a lot of feelings about the AI songs I write. Well, let me just say this. When I first discovered this tool, I wrote one up for both Gordon and Chris and I sent it to them just as me testing things out. But I said, hey, check out this song. Oddly specific because I just thought it was fun. And to save myself the trouble, I'll just end this show with the Rune Soup song I made for Gordon at the time. It really was for his ears only, but it's fun. So whatever. Big thanks to Gordon. As always, his courses are so in-depth. It's insane. If you have any interest at all in magic, dive into just one and you'll be sucked into the rest. Did you know he has one on UFOs, fairies, and Psy on top of angel magic, grimoires, energy healing, wealth magic, and many others? It's a really fun thing to get into late at night. But again, hardest working man in magic. Someone I'm super thankful to call a friend in the oftentimes petty, fickle, what can I get from this person, world of podcasting? But with that, I'm getting out of here. I've done my part. Your move. In denial, copium swaddlers, emergency supply, hodlers, and blended cycle modelers. Your fucking move. Catch yourself a cast iron pot and a witch's wooden spoon. Gather up the grocery list, wait for the fullest moon. Put in a lit culture you can stand. It's a good astrology. We're making room soup. I have things you wish you were making room. Gather all your friends around. We're making room. D-tasty, tasty, brew, can't rule.