James Fox’s New Revelations, Lacatski on UFOs, the Paranormal & Disinformation, Plus More

Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them, plus time management tools. And Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com slash teenaccounts. Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. That's software overload. Odoo is the all-in-one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR. Fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your business. Thousands have already made the switch. Why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's odoo.com. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business. Whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters. Running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Hi everyone and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. My name is Andy and welcome to your UFO News Update for the middle of November 2025. And there's been lots to talk about over the last week or so. I really did plan on doing one of these earlier. But life has kind of got in the way. So apologies for that. But I want to discuss some big comments for some big names in the UFO topic and beyond. That are going to have repercussions for the now and going forward certainly. So lots to discuss. And I want to start off with James Fox who was on News Nation Reality Check with Ross Coulter. And I'm going to play a quick trailer for you first. You're going to hear the audio or see the video depending on how you consume the podcast. And then I'll come back and discuss that. Have you been exposed to undeniable confirmation of a non-human intelligence craft? There is something out there and we should know as the people what it is. Do you believe that the federal government is knowingly concealing evidence about UAPs from the public? 100%. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes. When you say crash retrieval, what do you mean? Non-human, exotic origin, vehicles that have either landed or crashed. For the first time in history, the names of alleged companies and gatekeepers analyzing recovered alien technology are being exposed. Are any of you willing to name specific individuals? Dr. James Ryder. Ed Lockheed. Glenn Gaffney. CIA. For decades, we've heard allegations of the retrieval of objects of alien origin. In 1933, some disc-shaped object crashed. It was not anything from this earth. A UFO crashed in Kingman. Didn't drop out of the sky. It had to come in on an angle. The feeling I had during the encounter was like no type of aircraft I've ever seen before. I saw the evidence. It's a crash retrieval. There's a craft. And there's alien bodies. But one of the most well-documented UFO crash retrieval cases involving live aliens took place in Virginia, Brazil. It is a crash vehicle. It was a crash vehicle. Two extraterrestres were captured. After that, they were then sent to the hospital. My name is Carlos de Souza. My name is Katie Xavier. My name is Liliane Silva. My name is Valquíria Silva. Now, for the first time in history. We have the most compelling first-hand testimony of communication with a live alien in captivity. How much time did he spend with the alien in the room? The trace button is... So that was the trailer for Moment of Contact, new revelations of alien encounters. I'm sure many of you have watched Moment of Contact, the wonderful documentary already out there and available on the Virginia case. Now, it's going to be available on Amazon Prime, Apple TV and other platforms as well. We're still waiting on an exact release date from James Fox. But yeah, keep an eye out and an e-doute for those. However, in the trailer, James talks about and discusses, and on the interview with Ross Coulter, about the Virginia case. Now, if you aren't familiar with the Virginia case, it's covered extensively in the original documentary, Moment of Contact. I've interviewed James about it too. And it's also in my book, Atlas of UFOs. Shameless plug. If you aren't familiar with the case, the too-long-didn't-read version is often called Brazil's Roswell. It occurred in January 1996 in Virginia, a small town in Minas Geras, Brazil. Probably butchered that language there. It began when residents reported seeing a strange cigar-shaped craft emitting smoke and later claimed to have encountered small, brown-skinned, red-eyed humanoid creatures. Now, three young women famously described one such being crouched near a wall, seemingly injured or frightened. Over the following days, reports spread of military police activity, alleged creature captures, and even a soldier's mysterious death said to be linked to the handling of one of the entities. All of that's been discussed by James on the original documentary and my interview with him. Go and check those out. Despite official denials, conflicting testimonies, and a lack of definitive physical evidence, the Virginia incident remains one of the most compelling and controversial UFO counters in modern Brazilian history. Now, the interview with Ross Coulter covers the story again of Virginia, but adds James' latest research. He's been backing forward to Brazil to keep on top of the story. And I've said before, folks, as a father, I really do appreciate how often James has to leave his family to go and work to research and to get us more information on this case. Behind the scenes, whenever I speak to guests, James is one of the nicest guys before and after. He doesn't switch it on for the cameras. He just is the way he is. And I always appreciate that kind of authenticity. Now, he has testimony from a lead neurosurgeon, Dr. Italo, who still works at the hospital and claims to have been face to face with the alien being itself for up to four minutes. He clearly describes clearly an alien, he says, with a teardrop shaped head and teardrop shaped eyes. That classic look, I suppose, very similar to the communion front cover. James says he has multiple witnesses willing to take public lie detector tests to tell their story and do their best to show they are being truthful and they truly encountered an alien being. At the end of the interview, they show a clip of James Fox talking to physicist Eric Davis, one who is on my UFO interviewee bucket list, who talks about the president of the United States would need to absolve him of all obligations to his NDAs and clearances. And if he gets subpoenaed by Congress, he would tell everything he knows about reverse engineering, the hardware, the NHI programs, etc. Davis is such an interesting guy, one for me who definitely knows so much of what's going on. Really clever guy. And of course, folks, he is the Davis and the Wilson Davis memo story. I'll hopefully have James on the podcast in the coming weeks to go into this in more detail to hopefully promote and plug his documentary and discuss it. But that's what I really hope folks do support him with when that becomes available. I think he's one of the hardest working guys out there in the field. I'll hopefully have James on, like I say, to go into that as we get into December. But yeah, go out your way to support if you can. Get his features, buy a rent if you can, because I truly believe he does incredible work to get information like this out there. And he's been shafted financially by companies previously on some of those works before. So yeah, all the best to James on this upcoming feature. Like I say, Amazon Prime, Apple TV, James will be announcing all the details in the coming days. Another big interview which happened on the Weaponize podcast was with James Lekatsky. So who is James Lekatsky, some of you may be asking. He is the creator of the DIA program. He was a DIA program manager of OSAP and Kona Blue. So that's a really interesting figurehead when it comes to the actual programs, when it comes to UFOs, UAP. His new book is part of a series. Now, he co-authored the books, not with Bryce Abel and Richard Dolan, but he co-authored these with George Knapp and Colm Kelleher. It started with Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. Initial Revelations, now you'll see some of those books behind me. His new book, New Insights, which is a sort of diary in large of the OSAP program and Skinwalker Ranch. And he also mentioned that there was a fourth book coming in around 46 months, so March of May or May 2026, called Future Visions. So yeah, I'm going to play you the testimony now. A short clip, I say a short clip, it's a few minutes long actually, that James Lekatsky said he would read if he was called to testify at hearings. He says no one has contacted him to testify at hearings and says all his testimony is in the books. That's everything that has been approved by Dobser for him to say. So let me play that for you now. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. I'm reading. So, as way of background, I was the creator and DIA program manager of OSSAP, the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program, and of the follow-on KONA Blue Program, KBP. Both classified programs, regardless of what the internet has said in the past. Both classified. Now, other than your invitation, I guess that would have been two months ago now. No one from the House Oversight UAP Investigational Committee of Congress has ever, after multiple hearings, contacted me. Right at the beginning, I had a phone call where a young lady and her partner, a male, who never said another word other than introducing himself, went through a checklist and said, what did I think of these people? Well, you know, as a professional, what am I supposed to say? They're great or they're rotten? I just gave a generic answer. So, now, here's the thing that's very important. Our, and I want to use that as the proper term. The public's, yours, George's, and my testimony is contained in the books. They are complete. I'll tell you in a moment how difficult that was to do, but they are complete. That's everything that I have been approved to say condensed into what will be 1,200 pages. So, those books are Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, Inside the U.S. Government Covert UFO Program, Initial Revelations, the New Book, New Insights, and the also approved future book, let's say at four months, six months, Future Visions. Now, that is a complete package. That's all I could ever say to the Congress, and they can read it and know a hundred times more than they're ever going to get from hearings. Okay, now, George had a good point on the next statement. These books are not written in the traditional sense. They're assembled. They are not about questionable, I added that word, questionable flying saucer stories, paranormal tales, or fanciful descriptions of strange visitors from other worlds. They are not my beliefs, conjecture, or opinion, nor are they the attention-seeking babble from the internet, podcasts, or written articles, or books by individuals who are not affiliated with ASEP. You're surprising who is coming out of the woodwork, and I don't even know those people, claiming association and lack of knowledge of the program's true nature. Instead, the books factually detail the results of ASEP's day-to-day activities assembled only from official government files at DIA and approved for release by the Department of Defense or War. Now, Colm Kelleher, as program manager at Bass, the contractor, was dealing with 30,000 pages of information. To submit to me at DIA, he reduced that, as you know, to 7,500 pages, the 115 documents. I have further reduced that to what will be a total of 1,200 pages so far. And now here's something most people don't seem to realize. If you have the free version of Kindle, I make about 50 cents a book. If you buy a full printed copy, I make $1.50. And believe me, in this niche market, I am not laughing all the way to the bank. It was a lot of work to basically earn what in the Washington area is minimum wage. I, by the way, would have to be selling 80 books a day to keep up with minimum wage if I had a full-time job at a fast food restaurant. Now, let's speak about DIA. DIA FOIA states that the 7,500 pages cannot be found so that the public can directly read them. They'll be a difficult read. They were written for me. But surprise, surprise, no one has contacted me to obtain copies for redaction. They could. I and 12 other people have them. It's not bothering? Or is there something more to this? These books are our, me, you, and George, effort to further disclosure and are much more revealing than any congressional hearings have been so far. Now, this is my way of cataloging this or segmenting this. At the hearings and on the Internet, there are four classes of individuals that I've observed. Truthful descriptions of observations, but sometimes they are fooled by classified weapons testing or counterintelligence activities. That's fine. There are delusions, either from within their own minds or from, and I can't go into this, external influences. Unfortunately, in Category 3, there are outright liars. They're unfortunately the minority. To some, I can tell you directly and by observing, raising the right hand is meaningless. The most dangerous, however, and prolific are individuals who have no idea what they are talking about, but speak with authority. Those are the ones you, George, and the public have to watch out for. Very hard to discriminate versus are they liars? Are they delusional? Or do they have purpose? And remember, I alone have five to ten emails. It is so easy to appear as a different person in the counterintel world. Okay, now here's a tough statement. I don't suspect, wonder, or harbor any suspicion that false statements have been made to Congress, to the Pentagon, to you, the press, and on the Internet. I know they have been. I know it. Deliberately false, not just incorrect documents have been created about OSAP and Kona Blue and are currently in government files. This is a surprise and a first statement. I have reported some, there's a lot of it, some of the false information to the DOD, DOW Inspector General's office. Providing the evidence. I requested that IG take no action against the individuals. No action because the falsehoods against, this is another strange one, against OSAP and Kona Blue, to my mind, have been ineffective. The initial reporting, let's go back to the day one, by the New York Times story in 2017, was totally inaccurate. Contrary to what some people claim, the authors knew my name and position at OSAP, yet never attempted to contact me. Likewise, the Washington Post. Politico contacted me within hours after the articles were published in the three publications, asking for my opinion. They knew my name. They had my phone number. Why didn't they contact me? Now, the Pentagon states that AATIP, really OSAP, was not a UFO program. They've changed their tune, but the Pentagon has never asked me about anything. They circumvented me and went to my colleagues, but not me. News reporters call me literally within the last week, to this day, but only after the fact. There's no CNN, no Fox, CBS requests. Nothing. Now, I don't like to be out there in the public view, but let's face it. You're not talking to the program managers, myself or a column, on the two major UFO programs in the relatively recent past? Well, we are. Oh, you are. And right now, I'm basically limiting it to you, because after my name and position in OSAP was prominently mentioned by George twice in the recent September congressional hearings, no contact has come from anyone except a known anti-disclosure reporter. In the second mentioning at the hearing, my integrity was questioned, and George had to defend it. I have been requested to meet with Arrow twice and have refused. The second time I was told, and I made the grammar a little better so I could read it to you. Holding a meeting with you in a secure space is very easy. Under our authorities, you do not need a current clearance. The law also grants us additional security authorities. Under a special program, we can hold discussions at any level, including human, huh, very interested in speaking with you. This is what the email says. And learning your insights into what we are currently working on. What does that mean? And there are no legal impediments regarding your issues of interest, regarding their issues of interest. Well, what are they? Any investigative information held by the IG would not be an angle of information we are interested in. You have been lied to and you're not interested in it? Then what exactly are you interested in? The interview and information discussed would also be held in confidence, as we have demonstrated with all persons we have interviewed since 2022 when this began. Oh, by the way, you should have received notice last Friday that your adopter requests completed staffing. That's on the two books. So that's good news. Now Arrow is reviewing books? Wow. Hmm. What is the purpose of that? Now, not correct. Assuming authority is not necessarily having it. Three months later, I found out that the former deputy director of Arrow was disparaging UAP Paranormal Connection, a clear violation of not disclosing activities confidentially discussed. Now, the interviewer at the time said, this is a leading question, DIA's unofficial paranormal ghost hunt program at Skidwalker Ranch, where they went rogue. Well, now, what if that's not a preconception, I don't know what is. The response from the deputy director, they were looking for werewolves. The second response was, Kona Blue was established as the home for all these paranormal UFO crap. Now, that's from the deputy director of Arrow. Now, that is a very objective view at UFOs. Now, this may come as a surprise to some people, but fundamental Christian opposition to ASAP either did not exist. I know that it did, but it was ineffective, and I know that for a fact. In the eyes of DIA, ASAP was completely successful in achieving its objectives. Now, remember, this is important, and it's near the conclusion right here. Only believe ASAP and Kona Blue information directly read by you in the four books, this is to the public, or if you hear directly statements from myself or Colm Keller. Something serious is going on. In my opinion, you all are in the middle of what I can only describe as a major and repetitive counterintelligence operation by unknown multiple operators or organizations and for unknown reasons. Big question. What is so important about ASAP or Kona Blue? Now, I use the past tense. For Kona Blue, I shouldn't be using the past tense. What is so important? I don't know. I really, the public needs to answer that. In my opinion, we're all being played like a fiddle, mainly me because I was slow to recognize it. But there's just too much that seems to be too focused that is just unbelievable that's being directed toward me. And I told George, I have even been criticized on my appearance and demeanor. It is, it is, what? You're a vampire, right? Aren't you a vampire? That's one of the comments. Hey, welcome to Fight Club, man. I'm a vetter. It's okay to be, yeah, talented. I told Jim, Jeremy, I told Jim, good gosh, you got to run with that. But imagine, DIA had a vampire in charge of its UFO program? That is a hell of a headline. That would sell a lot of books. So might as well have a vampire, too. But the next thing on my sheets are something George asked about the major cases that I think are in the book and the strange things that I looked at in the book. But you probably, Jeremy, already have those. Yeah. So ask away. Remember, again, I'm limited to what's been approved. Yeah. But each time, you're going to get more and more. Because I'm for disclosure, but I am not uncontrolled. I want the public to be steered properly. Not for any bad reasons, but people are not learning what they need to know because they're getting bogged down. And by the way, when people agree with negative observations about either of those programs, on the Internet, who are you dealing with? Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process, so you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. So, yeah, there is Jim Lekatsky speaking on Weaponised. And as always, folks, anything I talk about on these updates, on interviews, please, if you can, go and support, go and check out those original interviews and the work done by folks like Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp on Weaponised. Make sure you do the old like, subscribe, comment. I would appreciate that as well for those on YouTube. But, yeah, lots to unpack here because it goes across two parts. So, I'm going to just go through some of the really interesting statements for me and make some comments on them, too. He says, for Kona Blue, now that was the document that dropped online, Christ, when was it? In the last two years, that was apparently an SAP, a special access program, UFO program, that never quite got off the ground. That was what was said. However, he does say that for Kona Blue, I shouldn't be using the past tense. He's telling us that it's still going on. This is one of, if not the biggest takeaway here. He says that there was a compartment that was also a program that if people could read between the lines on what was released, which he says was a good write-up, that there was a key sentence in there people need to find. Now, for me, I'm just going to quickly double check because I was looking this up earlier as to what that key sentence may be. And I saved it on my phone. So, there is a line around multiple interviewees identified Kona Blue as a Department of Homeland Security, or DHS, sensitive compartment established to protect the retrieval and exploitation of non-human biologics. I would say, potentially, if I had to guess, that is the line, that Kona Blue wasn't just a research program, wasn't just looking at maybes, ifs, buts, and maybes. It was really to do with the biologics, too. And that would be a big admission. But, yeah, Jim Lekatsky, across this interview, is generally quite tight-lipped. And I know a lot of folks get frustrated with that. Lekatsky himself mentions on the podcast that there's a lot of things he can't say. What he can say is, in the books, his dops are approved, he can't really elaborate on too much. But if you read between the lines of a lot of what he says that I'm going to go into here, and I do have a whole section on questions he has asked but doesn't answer officially, then, yeah, you can do some working out yourself on that. So, Lekatsky in part one goes in on former Deputy Director of Arrow Tim Phillips' comments around Skinwalker Ranch being where OSAP were looking for werewolves and crap. Really interesting chat around what actually gets done with a crashed craft, that there isn't unlimited funding necessarily, that when an SAP get a hold of biologics or craft or materials, that depending on who has it, that they might be strictly looking at the technology only. That doesn't necessarily mean they look at who was in it or where it was from if the thing was empty. They don't do that studying because they can't, they don't have the funding for it. So that's something to bear in mind and I think is a very fair and reasonable point. I think many of us, and I'll include myself, would think that these programmes would be all-encompassing. But you don't know what these programmes have completely, what their remit is. It could be, I don't care about the seats in this craft, I don't care about what it's made of, I want to know how it flies and that's the remit and that's what they have to work on, the folks involved. So yeah, I liked when Corbell asked Lekatsky about whether or not he had been inside the UFO that he had talked about previously. In one of the former weaponised episodes that Jim Lekatsky appeared on, he mentioned, as in one of the books, that they had recovered a crashed craft and that it was difficult to get into and it took them some time to actually work out how to breach the hull of the craft and get inside. Eric Davis, in an interview, had said that Lekatsky had gone inside. Lekatsky, when asked further, said he could not expand or confirm that. Now, I suppose whenever someone says that, folks, you can always do the whole, well, if they don't confirm or deny, then they're basically admitting to it or saying, yes, that's a fair way to look at it, but perhaps there are other reasons too. And I would just ask you, just be open-minded, be cautious when it comes to these sorts of things. We don't know that that is definitely the case. However, Jim Lekatsky could have just said no, which would put an end to that. He says he couldn't even tell Congress the answer to that, because when you're brought into things, to get particular clearances, you have to tell the agency, even if Congress approaches you, you have to tell them and their legal team. It ends on a bit of a cliffhanger part one, where Corbill asks him if the crashed craft was crashed, landed or gifted. Big pause. Knapp asks him if he knows the answer, and he can't go into the answer on that one, which I thought was really, really interesting. So part two, Lekatsky, who created and of course led the US government's OSAP program, we get reminded of that, says the project was never just about UFOs. We think OSAP, ATIP was the follow-on, and it's UFOs. It was more than that, especially OSAP. Remember, OSAP was the daddy program. OSAP was the big one. ATIP is what was salvaged, as far as we know from that. And that also covered paranormal phenomena and human health effects. He explained that studying UFOs alone would never have got to the heart of a much larger and complicated mystery. And I love that. And that's some of the stuff that I touch on now and again on the podcast and maybe should do more of. I'm actively looking to do some more of that as well. Really look at some of the things that are on the outskirts of the UFO phenomenon, maybe not directly related, but have correlations. Some of the folks involved in those studies, and that's something that many of you have asked me for for a long time. And five and a half years in, I'm going to start dipping my toe into those waters. Lekatsky compared the UFO investigation mindset to a game of roulette. He said too many people put all of their chips on one number. He said OSAP deliberately avoided that mistake, treating UFOs, the paranormal consciousness and biology as connected parts of one larger system. And I like, you know, I love analogies. Because UFOlogy can be like that. You spread your bets. You put your chips on a few numbers. Sometimes you'll win big. Sometimes you lose. Sometimes you have to start over again completely. You've lost all your chips. The key is not to put everything on one square, because the truth might sit somewhere even in between zero and 30. Who knows? Lekatsky believes his books are his form of disclosure. He says, and I quote, The public paid $22 million for this information. The government still owns the reports and must approve any official release. So remember that $22 million, folks, for OSAP. It's a lot of money for any of us listening, unless you're a multimillionaire. Congrats to you. However, for any of us, I imagine that's life-changing money. That's generational life-changing money for most of us. That sets up your family's family's family down the line. However, $22 million for a UFO program studying all sorts of stuff is a drop in the ocean for a military whose budget goes into, you know, the hundreds of billions of dollars for various different things. So $22 million is the interest off the back of the interest, you know, compound interest, I think it's called. So it's not a lot of money, really. He asks, so he's asked whether the U.S. possess a recovered craft. And he says the technology was very advanced. Advanced, very, very advanced. And with worldwide repercussions. When he's pressed to define the gap, he says, you know, I think Corbell says to him, is it sticks and stones compared to superconductors? And Lekatsky says, absolutely. So that lets you know it's not just like Corbell says to him, an original iPhone to an iPhone 17 difference in technology, which would be huge. It'd be so much faster. You can do so much more. The camera's better. It's got all these different features and functionalities. Whereas if you go back to, you know, sticks and stones to a superconductor, it's just two different worlds. And that's the technology we're dealing with here. So whenever you sometimes think, and I'm sure some of you do, folks. I do sometimes. The idea that so much of this is misidentifications. The idea that some of this is just Russia or China or the U.S. have developed something cool. It goes beyond that. It goes so far beyond that. And we can get lost in that. And that's some of the real wonder of the topic for me. He confirmed that OSAP carried out material science studies on alleged crash debris and that high-level talks took place with a major defence contractor holding materials of unknown origin. He wouldn't say what was exchanged, but he described the discussions as serious. He said that OSAP and Robert Bigelow Aerospace were likely under surveillance. Chinese-made phones modified to transmit up to two kilometres were discovered in meeting rooms. The FBI was informed, devices were surrendered, and he added that some OSAP files may have been deleted after he retired. And I'll quote, people can push the delete button very quickly. He spoke about the variety of UAP shapes reported. This is a personal favourite aspect of the topic for me. And Corbell pushed him on this one and we got a bit of a muddled answer from Makatsky. Obviously, some of those shapes are pyramids, cubes, spheres, rectangles, triangles, cigars, tic-tacs. And he said the differences were intentional. OSAP studied these geometries to understand the propulsion and possible design intent. When asked if the variety represented different non-human groups, he said, you hit on it for human confusion because that's certainly what it's doing. He describes a case in California where a witness saw an elongated rectangular craft on the ground with a humanoid occupant struggling to move, quote-unquote, almost like the gravity was too much for it. That wasn't really what Corbell had asked him, though, around the shapes. He tells that story, but it's kind of out of place. Corbell goes back in and Lakatsky sort of says, and I don't want to misquote him, but it's like different cars coming down the road. You're going to see different shapes and sizes. And I suppose you could look at it in a way as it's just different modes of transport that a train, a bus, a submarine, an aircraft, an airplane, a hovercraft are all very different modes of transport, but they are very basically used to put people inside and go from A to B. You could add drones to that now. I'm sure we have drones that fit people inside of them. Would you still call them drones? I don't know. If you didn't know, you get some pretty big drones, and largely that's what we're seeing with many of these cases across Belgium, the UK, the US, and further afield. We have some very advanced adversarial drones from different countries doing some suspicious things. They're big. They're different. They are built for various different purposes. And UAP UFOs are very likely no different. He denied the 2004 Tic Tac UFO was US technology. We're coming up on the anniversary, 21st anniversary of the Tic Tac event, saying that if we had that technology, we would have implemented it on aircraft. We just weren't capable of that back then. The Tic Tac was the first case OSAP investigated, and he said no existing US electronic warfare systems could explain it. He said that every special access program, and this is one that really gave me the Metal Gear Solid red alert above my head, folks, because I've not heard this before, so if you have, fantastic. I am no expert. I never claim to be an expert. Not the best way to plug myself on a podcast, but I'm just nosy. He explained every special access program has a counterintelligence officer attached, whose job it is to monitor leaks, forgeries, and disinformation. Lekatsky said he'd seen deliberate false information inserted into official records as a counterintelligence tactic. Confusion for the sake of confusion, he said. asked about the alleged Zodiac documents that Knapp and Corbell mentioned, he declined to comment, but said there's plenty of disinformation out there. So yeah, it makes you think about the folks we know who may or may not be counterintelligence, whether that's well-known names, lesser-known names, high-profile accounts online, some of the disinformation that's put out there by major news networks or media, print media. Yeah, it really makes you think, doesn't it, that, hmm, especially, yeah, anyway, I won't go into that too much on here, perhaps a conversation for a different time with some other people. He describes several key UFO cases investigated by OSAP, so a Kansas case where witnesses, including a police officer, photographed a black triangle that backed up, then blinked out of existence, leaving behind electromagnetic interference or electronic interference. A Georgia incident where a man shone a million-candle spotlight at a black triangle, it fired back a radiation beam and he later developed tumours. A California case where Bass investigators saw a craft on the ground and a humanoid figure struggling to move as if under heavy gravity, that was the one mentioned before. He defended studying paranormal phenomena alongside UFOs, citing Skinwalker Ranch events such as orange spheres entering rock, a stickman figure appearing in a house and a butterfly that passed through glass. He recounted his own man-in-black experience on a train where a woman beside him was reading a newspaper showing a man-in-black with the words join us. And remember folks, this is the stuff for me that for many can take away credibility from the whole OSAP Skinwalker Ranch scenario. But for me, for real serious folks to sit there and use words like dino beaver, werewolf, etc. Portals opening up online. Portals is a hard word for me to say with a Scottish accent so I'll try not to say it too much. But these kind of things appearing on the ranch, it's a credibility killer and they admit that. And they're almost hesitant to mention it but if they don't, they're not telling you part of the story. And Lekatsky said the whole story of OSAP and Skinwalker Ranch is not out there. Much is the same with the UFO story. The whole story folks is not out there. If you're sitting there thinking, you know, this is just UFOs and, you know, we know the basics. We don't. We're far from knowing the full basics yet. Here's a section folks for me on what he wouldn't answer. I've taken some of the questions he said. I can't speak about that. I can't answer that. I'm going to read out the question and then what he said as a separate section here for you. So, James Lekatsky was asked, was he involved in a legacy UFO program before OSAP? He said, I can't speak about that. He was asked, was the craft gifted, crashed or retrieved? He said, I can't answer that. He was asked, was the craft sentient or intelligent? He said, you already know I can't answer that. He's asked, has there been government level contact with non-human intelligence? He says, I can't make a statement on that. He's asked, does he know if such contact occurred? He says, you guessed it, I can't make a statement on that either. He's asked, are the alleged Zodiac legacy program documents genuine? He says, I couldn't comment on that. He has asked, details of Kona Blue's purpose or what was exchanged? He says, I can't get into that. And he's asked, crash retrieval materials from the 1950s? He says, I don't know about them being that old. So, he's asked the meaning behind his statement that if full human capabilities were known, the phenomenon is not something to fear. He says, I'm not saying anything more, you'll have to go to the black screen. So, really interesting. And a few other key points mentioned just to wrap up on the Lakatsky weaponized two-parter. It's fantastic and I really do applaud Jeremy and George for doing a difficult interview because James Lakatsky says himself in the previous interview and in these, I've said what I can say, it's all written down in the books. He can't really elaborate but they do their best to draw blood from a stone. He says, disclosure is progressing inch by inch comparing it to the gradual public understanding of nuclear weapons. First the idea, then the details. He admitted some material was removed from the skinwalkers at the Pentagon by government censors before publication. He suggested that Russia and China may be working to exploit similar recovered technologies. And I'm looking early next year to do a show with Richard Dolan around Chinese ufology. I think that would be really interesting. We've discussed that. He believes humanity's true potential is unrealized. He says, if full human capabilities were known to us right now, the phenomenon is not something we need to fear. He linked this to something he called Kona Blue, which I've talked about saying it's much more than going and getting six-year-old parts but declined to explain further. And he ended by saying if people needed to fear something it would have happened already and that his goal is to pass on knowledge before it's lost and especially to the younger folks. I want to include myself in that. I'm 39 folks so I'm hoping that that counts as myself. So yeah, really interesting two-parter. James Lekatsky, interesting guy. Looking forward to finishing off the new insights book that I've got and then that follow-up book too. There's a lot of information in there folks. If people have read them I'd love to know your thoughts on what really stood out to you from James Lekatsky. Running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business. Whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Moving on to the last couple of news items there folks. So age of disclosure is we speed towards 21st of November and its release. We've seen some reviews come in already from critics who have seen it. I haven't seen it myself. I've struggled to get a hold of a copy from the folks in charge. I think they're dishing it out to the bigger news media platforms which that is their right. The reviews have been mixed and I'm not surprised but for the purposes of being fair some of the positive stuff was from IndieWire said As someone who has never pursued or been persuaded by anything I had ever heard about aliens before watching the film I feel qualified to tell you the age of disclosure is really, really convincing. The Austin Chronicle said What age of disclosure has that the average alien encounter documentary doesn't is that their witnesses have a greater gravitas. Admirals, nuclear physicists, research biologists, senators, etc. So and yeah the Hollywood Reporter here's a more negative couple of ones just for balance. my problem with the age of disclosure isn't the lack of opposing voices it's that nothing is proven and thus nothing can be refuted and for me from Collider this is one I worry about and I've voiced this before folks and I really hope I'm wrong but this is one that's going to be subjective and down to the individuals watching. Collider said It delivers some fascinating information but was executed in the most bland way possible. The pacing makes the movie feel like you're watching a college PowerPoint presentation go back to when I first heard about it go back to the South by South West premiere when I had Chase on and a few other people discussing their thoughts who had been at the premiere it's talking head after talking head after talking head we're in 2025 about to hit 2026 folks it's a struggle to get people to watch 15, 20, 30 minutes of content these days let alone an hour and a half of talking heads regardless who they are and remember to a worldwide audience let's take the US out of this which is clearly their big audience but the rest of the world don't necessarily know or care who certain senators or congressmen or women are they don't know those positions mean nothing to them so they have to for me they've done it now it's going to come out but for me I don't see what it would achieve that perhaps a James Fox documentary hasn't already which has more context which has more clips of stuff and I think the general public need that I hope I'm wrong it's had some big shout outs from people in the media I've mentioned Pat McAfee and others some big celebrities I've mentioned this documentary is coming out it's going to be big so yeah let's see if it can get some of that crowd on board I'd like to think perhaps Logan Paul and his podcast Impulsive and others who do those aimed at younger audiences your Joe Rogan podcast which obviously has a massive audience will talk about it when it comes out I'd like to think they get some folks on board I want it to be successful I want folks to watch Age of Disclosure and go shit this is really intriguing this is something I need to get involved in this is something I need to get invested in it's in everyone's best interest but like to Collider's point I don't know if they've done it in the best way and time will tell on that one but I sincerely hope it performs well Tim Galladet former Reid Admiral Tim Galladet has posted just a few days ago that and I'm just going to read his social media post in the lead up to the release of Age of Disclosure I was interviewed about UAP by Brett Beyer yesterday at the Fox News TV studio in DC his special which also includes former UAP Task Force Director Jay Stratton and US Army Representative Colonel Carl Nell will air on November 20th so it's going to get a big write up our big showing the day before from Fox News and I'm sure many other networks will pick it up too so yeah again really intrigued I'm going to do a show discussing it from a spoilery point of view I'll do some follow up shows as well I'll get some guests on we'll do a listener call in on that as well apologies for the lack of listener call and recently I've been incredibly busy I know a few of you are waiting on return emails or calls I'm behind on those as always but please if you want to get involved in any listener shows this month I'd like to do a couple on Age of Disclosure on some of the big news stories on anything you want to talk about as we heard towards the end of the year then please reach back out to me via the website if you've done so already please just drop me a message again or via email that would be great and another story just to finish off with folks I think is worth mentioning the UEP Disclosure Fund has rebranded as the Disclosure Foundation and I'm going to read you the statement on their website that was released Washington DC the organisation formerly known as the UEP Disclosure Fund is expanding its mission and public engagement now officially the Disclosure Foundation it integrates policy research legal support and public education under one umbrella of professionals and volunteers Executive Director Jordan Flowers said this transition marks the next logical step in our evolution we're not only pushing for transparency today we're working to support institutions policy makers and the public in how to operate responsibly in a post-disclosure environment the foundation remains non-partisan and non-profit supporting protected whistleblowers whistleblower pathways legislative research and public education through informed dialogue and scientific understanding it also launches a new think tank component to prepare for the policy governance and technological challenges of Disclosure the new website is disclosure.org and its partner 501 C4 branch the Disclosure Action Fund will complement its work through advocacy my thoughts on this folks the rebrand is likely a very good thing I think the word fund always raises eyebrows albeit not always fairly I spoke to Wang Feng who was a part of the organisation as a part of the organisation Lester Nari who is a part of the organisation and we talked through those things previously I'm going to be speaking to Executive Director Jordan Flowers next week about this so any questions you have around the change the new direction please send them over via email ufo uapam at gmail.com or use thatufopodcast.com forward slash contact and I'll get your questions to Jordan and also folks just to remind you or remind you I'm telling you this for the first time actually in the next 24 hours I'm interviewing Christian Peters he is a German social scientist and researcher at the Bremen International Graduate School of Social Sciences where as part of his work he studies how society understands and reacts to the UFO or UAP phenomenon his work looks at what UFOs reveal about us as human beings our beliefs our fears the ways technology and culture shape how we interpret the unknown he's written and spoken internationally about the political and cultural dimensions of UFO research and co-authored a 2023 scientific American peace calling for more involvement from social scientists in UAP studies most recently I've managed to see him twice this year folks he presented at Durham Law School Symposium on SETI and UAP research discussing the political epistemology of UFOs basically how knowledge and authority are built around this mystery and he also presented at the S.A.L. Symposium just a few weeks ago for me Dr. Peters is one of the growing number of academics treating the UFO topic as a serious area for social science exploring not what might be out there or just out there but what the search itself says about us as a species so really looking forward to that one folks and anyways that is enough for me on this update loads more to come this month you will get sick of me by the end of the month the shows will be coming thick and fast perhaps we're going to get some more congressional chatter now the government shutdown is over in the United States who knows but again thank you to everyone who has signed up in the last few days to the Patreon for the free trial on there or Apple podcast free trial a YouTube membership or Spotify if you search that UFO podcast premium all of that makes a huge difference to me and one day doing this as a full time job thank you so much and whether you're watching on the paid platforms or listening on the free platforms keep liking reviewing sharing if it's the next thing you do hang up here go leave a review leave a nice comment like the video subscribe all makes a difference all appreciated and I will speak to you all very very soon that's all for this episode of that UFO podcast thank you so much for listening and watching if you enjoyed the show please follow subscribe and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcast it really helps others find the show if you're watching on YouTube hit like subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss future episodes you can also support the show directly and get early access add free episodes and bonus content on Patreon or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts Spotify or YouTube memberships all the links are over at thatufopodcast.com or in the show description below along with merchandise and more don't forget you can also pick up a copy of my book Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects available now in all good bookstores and through online retailers including Amazon big thank you again to all of you for listening and tuning in until next time keep looking up you never know what you might see running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other one for sales another for inventory a separate one for accounting before you know it you are drowning in software instead of growing your business this is where Odoo comes in Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM accounting inventory e-commerce HR and more no more app overload no more juggling logins just one seamless system that makes work easier and the best part Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost it's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up plus it's easy to use customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odoo for free at Odoo.com that's O-D-O-O dot com