Jay Weidner | The Cross Of Hendaye, Plasma Portals, & The Season of Catastrophe

So say we all. From the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood, and we lucky few can read between the lines of reality enough to see that the psychopathic, arconic elite have a completely different metaphysical orientation when it comes to what this world is, its true history, and the unseen forces that drive it. We might not have been read in on the details, but from the esoterically potent naming of their companies and the strange statues and logos that seem to pay homage to ancient gods, to the notion that war is often a cover story for seeking ancient texts and artifacts that fill in the holes left in their own timeline reconstruction and the lost technologies of the past, it's clear that there's a lot left out from the public eye. Well, more and more independent researchers are looking at this, as well as various cultural legends from around this island Earth, and concluding that we might be in a cosmic system that's a lot less fixed than advertised. And when the great sky clock strikes twelve, whenever that might be, the Earth seems to go through massive catastrophe and upheaval, wiping the slate of history clean to start again. If this is true, then of course the management class is content keeping the masses enslaved with fake green paper economic illusions and distracted with endless entertainment options and culture war issues to debate. While they apply their vast resources to seeking knowledge on when to expect it and building a vast network of bunkers and tunnels to weather the cosmic storm. Probably right on top of the last fast tunnel system that was used in previous rounds of system resets. Well, wouldn't you know it, today's returning guest Jay Widener wrote a book way back in 2003 titled The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendei, Alchemy at the End of Time, about the decoding of an artifact hidden in plain sight that talks of such a cataclysm and points to a place of refuge where inner Earth tunnels seem to go for miles. If you don't remember, who could blame you, but Jay has been here twice before, once in 2014, talking about Archons, Mount Shasta, and the Brotherhood of Saturn, as well as 2013 in episode 68, breaking down his work on Stanley Kubrick and his film Kubrick's Odyssey, which has grown into a series of three films now. You can find all of his work at jaywidener.com as well as sacredmysteries.com. He also does a great interview series called Reality Check on his YouTube channel, and it's great to have him back. The real-life Indiana Jones archetype, ancient relic decoder, and cosmic sky clock timekeeper. Jay, welcome back. Hey, good to be back. It's been a long time, over a decade. The much simpler world of 2013 and 14, but I know all these interviews tend to blend together, but you were a big part of this show's early days, and I recently had a guest, Matthew J. Bell, bring up your book, The Great Cross of Henday, and I was just super into it and surprised that I missed it. I guess Archons and Kubrick were just too exciting for me at the time, but your co-author on this book, Vincent Bridges, sums it up by saying, what we've been taught to regard as history looks a lot more like the residue of a millennia-long global conflict over control of this secret and its ramifications, this secret being the cosmic cycle. But I love that. Would you agree that they're okay with us believing pretty much anything except this truth about the season of catastrophe, as you call it in the book? Yeah, they don't want us to know about it because they want to be ahead of the game. They knew about it the last time, 12,000 years ago, and they had some kind of escape hatch, various theories on what it was, probably underground. And so they've had the upper hand ever since the catastrophe because they had all the high technology and knowledge saved. And the rest of us who were just savages living out in the middle of nowhere, barely living, you know, we were always at it. And so we've had interactions with these advanced beings the whole time, the last 12,000 years, advanced human beings. Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods, about how they went out and taught men and women how to farm and hunt and, you know, recast civilization. And so here where I live locally, I live near a mountain called Mount Blanca, and it's the holy mountain to the Hopi. They went underground in the catastrophe and were saved by the ant people, who were apparently the residents of the underground chamber that's in Mount Blanca. And I'm working on a new film, interestingly enough, which is sort of based on the work of Chris O'Brien, which postulates that the great sand dune park, which is right under Mount Blanca, is actually the inside. Of Mount Blanca, it's tailings. They ran it through AI, and it told me that the sand was all uniform of the same exact kind, that it was exactly what we would find if it came out of a mountain. There's no other explanation for it, for the sand dunes, actually. The geological explanation doesn't make any sense. And here's the great part. Chris O'Brien told me that they did a drill down in the sand dunes, and they got down to the surface. The sand dunes are like 900 feet high. They got down to the surface, and they found an ancient forest underneath the sand dunes. And they got some organic material, and they carbon dated it, and the trees died 12,000 years ago. So, you know, apparently the ant people, whoever they are, they knew the catastrophe was coming. They dug themselves a chamber inside the mountain and brought some of the Native Americans in with them and saved them. So it's a pretty interesting story, and it's all over the world. And so what we're really talking about is this Cross of Hende, which is this cross in a churchyard in the south of France, right on the Basque border with Spain. It mirrors the four tarot cards, 17, 18, 19, and 20. And you can find 17, 18, 19, and 20 on the Cross of Hende, too, by the way, if you look close enough. Somebody built it in like around 1600 or so, 400 years plus, and it may even be earlier or based on another cross that was falling apart. And so it's clearly made by a Freemason. There's Freemasonic symbols all over it. And my venture deep into Freemasonry has shown me that Freemasons are, one of the things that they're doing is they're watching the solar cycles. The Cross of Hende postulates that there's four cycles or four yugas, oval with the four A's on the cross, is the four yugas. And the eight-pointed star is the center of the galaxy, and it's right across from the angry sun. So the center of the galaxy makes the sun get angry, is what the cross is saying. And it also makes the sun get happy, too. It just depends on where it is in its heliocoyal spin. And I regard the monument of the Cross of Hende as the most important monument on Earth, because we don't really know much about the pyramids. We know that they're incredible, we know they're impossible, and that itself is amazing, but the pyramids aren't really telling us anything. We can't really—the hieroglyphs come from the second dynasty, not the first dynasty. The first dynasty is where all the cool stuff was made. So, you know, all the pots that look like they're machined and everything. So I believe that's all pre-12,000 years ago. I believe that the first dynasty in Egypt was destroyed, and then somebody came in and took it up and created the hieroglyphs and the whole system. And I think, like, Brian Forrester would agree with me on that. He's found enough evidence in Egypt to show that it had been hit by something hot and heavy 12,000 years ago. I think that—and I think the reason that the Cross of Hende is so important is because it's giving us real information and true information about our universe that would seem impossible for someone in 1600, frankly, unless they were some kind of really well-read, well-traveled person. They would have gone to India. They would have gone all over Europe. They had gone to Egypt. 1600. It was hard getting around in those days. So whoever it was not only told us about the seasons of our galactic seasons, but they also told us about, you know, a place of refuge. And then when you start looking into the tunnel systems that are in Peru, and then you discover, of course, that there's tunnel systems in the Himalayas. Yeah. There's probably tunnel systems in the Rockies, right? And probably all of it had been discovered and everything. And so the ancients—we know Mount Blanca. And by the way, you can trace—if you get on Google Earth, you can trace the sand from the sand dunes all the way up the side of Mount Blanca. And I would say where that sand trail ends is where the entrance used to be. I don't—it's probably not there anymore. Landslides and stuff, you know, cover it all up and everything. So all over the Earth, we have these myths about a catastrophe, horrible catastrophe that nearly killed everybody on Earth. Then we have all across the Earth myths about some men on boats coming around and rejuvenating civilization again. And then you couple that with the Cross of Hende, then you're getting a pretty serious read on what's going on here. So what this is about is we go—the solar system oscillates. It goes up and down like this at the edge of the galaxy. So the edge of the galaxy—I mean, the edge of the galaxy is all this muck and rock and stars and everything right out the galactic plane. And our solar system goes up through that galactic plane, comes out over the top, then comes back down, then hits that galactic plane again, and goes back up and over—back up, hits the galactic plane. Every time that the solar system gets behind the galactic plane, the emanations from the galactic center stop. They're no longer there. The sun turns yellow. Now, we're in the middle of the Kali Yuga, where there's nothing but war, strife, danger. Our only spiritual leaders—only thing that they can really tell us to do is, like what the Buddha did, was just say, just forget it, dude. Just sit under a tree and do not participate in this nightmare, right? And so we have these spiritual traditions, which were born out of the Kali Yuga. Jesus, Christianity is also another religion born out of the Kali Yuga. Jesus' message is really, you can't deal with any of this. You just have to just back off, right? And that's exactly what you have to do in the Kali Yuga. However, so what also the Cross of Hennedin is telling us is that when we hit the very, very peak of the Golden Age, the very top of the Golden Age, is when the catastrophe happens. That's what throws us back in into the down loop again, is the catastrophe. So it was 12,000 years. We went up. We're in the Golden Age 12,000 years ago. We hit the catastrophe. We then went down into the Silver Age, down into the Bronze Age, down into the Kali Yuga. And just now, right now, we're just coming out of the Kali Yuga. We just came out of it. And the sun has turned white again, like it was previously. Yep. People have noticed that. Probably will turn purple before it's over, by the way. So we're going through these massive changes and people are losing their minds. Because for one thing, the solar energies have increased. But so have the galactic energies. And so we're getting more psychic. And a lot of people can't take that. And so they're freaking out, you know. And there's a lot of other weird stuff going on. I don't know if you're aware of the Voyager thing that happened a few weeks ago. No. Are you aware of that one? No, tell us. So Voyager is the very first spacecraft that we sent out into deep space. And it passed the barrier of the heliosphere about maybe a year or two ago. So it's now 15 billion miles away from Earth. And about, well, some time ago, I don't know when. They're kind of not telling us. It made an adjustment. It adjusted itself. And that's impossible. There was no fuel. The fuel lines are all frozen. Then it let out a hum that never let out before. And nobody knew what this hum was. And this hum went on for a time period. And then finally, they put the hum into AI. And the AI discovered the harmonics, prime numbers. None of this could be generated by the crappy computer that's on the Voyager from 1977, right? Yeah. I don't even know how they would read a signal like that. Yeah. We may not even be the ones that the signal is meant for. We don't know. But anyway, Michu Kaku, the Japanese astrophysicist, he says that he thinks we're in contact with aliens. And that it hit a tripwire, right? So some kind of surveillance system way out there. And they hit the tripwire. And that's how it got adjusted. And then they came in and they shot something at it, which created the beam that we read as the hum. There's a hypothesis. I don't want to get off the Hyundai thing, but this is really interesting. There's a hypothesis that's just kind of new hypothesis by a Japanese or Chinese science fiction writer, Shixson Lee. And it says that the reason that we never see aliens is because the entire universe is a dark forest. And it's filled with predator aliens that remain hidden for fear of other predator aliens, right? So everybody's hiding because they don't want to be seen because they're worried about other hostile forces. Well, we foolishly put Earth's address on the Voyager when it took off. Literally, it has Earth's address. It has a golden album, record album. And anyone who discovers it can play. And it's got all the people in all the languages saying hello and Beethoven and Bach and all this other stuff, right? But we gave their our address. In our naive days of 1977, we thought all the aliens were benevolent. But what if they're not? Right, right. Let me jump in here because I don't know how much stock I can put in every little NASA mission and all that. But the idea of a cyclical cataclysm, I mean, this goes to all sorts of indigenous cultures. As you said, you mentioned the Hopi, but they're not the only one. And the story of this cross, and I'll put it up on the screen so people can take a look at it. But there are so many details. It has a Latin phrase across the top that says, hail to the cross, our only hope. And as you mentioned, at the base, a star, the moon, and the sun with a face that looks kind of angry, and they kind of match the tarot cards. There's also the I-N-R-I inscription that we know from the cross with Jesus. But you say in the book that this had an alchemical phrase that it meant before the Jesus motif, right? That's kind of interesting. Yeah, in fire, nature is renewed. Well, there you go. That's true about alchemy because we use fire to cause substances to transform, not fire like a match, but plasma as a fire. That is how it's renewed. And then the earth is renewed through the interaction of the solar plasma storm that comes every 26,000 years. The remnants of the solar plasma storm are all over the southwest United States. It's quite evident to me that the Grand Canyon is actually a lightning strike. Yes. There's nothing. There's no tailings. If it was eroded from the Colorado River, there'd be a whole bunch of mud and dirt at the very end of the Colorado River from thousands and thousands of years of erosion. But you don't find that. All of the strange, misshapen rocks and formations all over the southwest, northern Arizona and southern Utah, I believe, were all formed by this plasma storm. All over the southwest, there's Indian, Native American pictograms of plasma, literally plasma. And Dr., I'm going to forget his name. He's from Los Alamos. Dr. Anyway, he's a plasma physicist. And he, you know, works at Los Alamos doing plasma experiments. And he went out one day to look at art with his wife on a Sunday in Santa Fe. And they have all these, you know, art shops in downtown Santa Fe with Native American art, with locals, you know, southwest Indian Native American art. And he's like, whoa! He's like, every one of the Native American art had plasma drawings in them. And he was, like, completely stunned. And that sent him off looking at the petroglyphs from not just American southwest, but all over the world. There's these plasma petroglyphs that have been etched onto the side of cliffs and things as if everybody witnessed some kind of incredible thing, right? And our local most biggest hunk of plasma is the sun. It's just a giant ball of plasma. And every once in a while, it gets all twisted because the orbit of the pole of the sun is slower than the orbit of the equator. So the electrical magnetic lines begin twisting and they twist and they twist and they twist. And finally, it reaches the point where that's it. You know, that's it. We're done. And it explodes. And we see plasma events in the sky. We have terrible things happen to us. Robert Schock wrote, he's a professor at University of Boston. He wrote a book about all this after seeing one of my lectures, I might add, and on the Cross of Henday. And a really good book, Forgotten Civilization, I think it's called. And it's all about how the evidence all over the earth of this gigantic solar event that happened. What I think happened is because the Cross of Henday says that there's a double catastrophe. That's so important to understand. So what happened is at first we got hit by something that occluded the skies, threw so much dirt up into the air that we went into darkness. We went into younger dryness, the 1,200 year long, really severe ice age. We were pulling out of the long ice age. Everything was starting to warm up. Things were getting better and better. And then we got hit by something. Now, I contend that it's a galactic super wave, a pulsing, periodic galactic super wave ripples through the plane of the galaxy and causes the sun to explode, causes it to become a T-Tari star. In other words, it pushes so much dust into the solar system that the dust falls on top of the sun and causes the sun to ignite after. So I think that, but like Randall Carlson, my good friend Randall Carlson, he thinks it was a meteorite or a comet that hit. Okay. That's what threw us in the younger dryness. I really don't care because the signature of a galactic super wave and the signature of a comet or a meteorite are the same. You'd have all, you'd have the same exact intergalactic elements that would be spread all over Earth. So you really can't tell what happened. But the second catastrophe is the one that comes 1200 years later. Okay. So we're thrown into the worst ice age in centuries for 1200 years, even as down as far as like Iran, it's freezing cold. Okay. Every people are reporting back how cold it was even there. And so all of a sudden there's this giant warmup, which causes the ice to all melt suddenly and giant flooding and all of this stuff. That's the second thing, the second catastrophe, which is the solar catastrophe. So first the earth goes thrown into the younger dryness by some mechanism, some exterior mechanism, right? That causes gigantic cold, right? Then the sun flares, hits the earth and turns it all into, it melts everything and sea levels rise and cities that were there are destroyed. And finally everything warms up. All the big animals die off. Um, and here we are. And here we are, man. So many thoughts. So I have some quotes here from you where you've said the very basis of esotericism is the relationship we humans have with the sun. And the entire point of Freemasonry seems to be passing down the knowledge of galactic solar outbursts every six to 12,000 years. So just a cycle. And I've heard you say there's also smaller cycles. Like you think maybe the Chicago fire was when it was hit with a part of the cycle that might happen every 400 years. And that makes sense because that's such a mysterious event. The descriptions do not match like a conventional fire. They say things are flying out of the sky. And yet the official story is, well, a cow knocked over a lantern in a barn and the whole city burned down. And it's like, well, why would they need a cover story? If the secret is that we have these cycles and the biggest deal is keeping it secret, then yeah, there's going to be cover stories to this kind of stuff. And your book kind of starts out with following the trail of alchemist Fulconelli and his book, The Mysteries of the Cathedrals. There are, I guess, 12 cathedrals in the book. And you went to France and across Europe and actually went through these cathedrals. And his point is that they actually contain this information of cyclical cataclysm encoded in them. But they've been co-opted and the knowledge obscured. You know, we just had the Notre Dame have that mysterious fire recently. Was that because people started to figure out they can look for these codes and secrets in the cathedrals? It seems like Fulconelli would say yes. And it's just really interesting because you also brought up the Native American beliefs about the arches in the National Park and plasma. This is just we're all over the map. But you did a great interview with Robert Temple about his recent book on plasmas. Man, there's just so much weird stuff about plasmas. You also have in the book these crop circles from the 90s and how they kind of look like they're trying to explain some of the celestial configurations that happened at these time periods. We didn't have that context back then. But now people are waking up, looking at it with new eyes. And it's like, man, maybe that's what it was. But these arches in Arches National Park, they think they're portals. And I'm trying to understand how portals and rock and plasma all kind of interact. Like, what's the relationship there? Because there's also a Murumuru, the Gate of the Gods, which is in Peru, of course, in Peru. But it's just this cutout in the rock. And they say it was a gateway. Well, it seems like there's some relationship when we get into certain places where plasma causes rock formations to be gateways. It's kind of hard to understand. But talk to us about your thoughts on that. All right. So the pyramids are built out of granite. The cathedrals were built out of granite. Why? What's so important about granite? Granite has a high amount of quartz in it. OK, quartz is highly conductive. All right. It has electromagnetic field in it. So what happens is, is that you'll get places that are hot spots on Earth, like Skinwalker Ranch, where there's, you know, there's just all this weird stuff going on. And, you know, it's and it's a high amount of plasma because of the geological terrain that governs it. I live in the San Luis Valley, which has, you know, more UFO sightings any place in North America. They're not really UFOs. They're plasma flying around. But everyone thinks they're UFOs, whatever UFO is. These hot spots are generally the Native Americans wouldn't live there. Sedona is another hot spot. They wouldn't live there because it was the energy was too high. And they generally told the white people not to move there in most cases that there were no Indian settlements in the San Luis Valley ever. They've never found any traces of it. So they would come up here and hunt, but they wouldn't live here permanently because it's just too it's just too hot. Well, the energy is just too much. Same with Mount Shasta. Same thing going on there. So you have the right geological foundation and then you have the right shape, too. So in Arches National Park, you have the round arches that are everywhere. And so the plasma is going to concentrate better because it has, you know, it's all the plasma is running through the rock and the rock is all around. So now the plasma electromagnetically can connect to itself and create the portal. And that's how the portals are. And they're most of them are accidental, but the ones in Arches are real. I would not suggest you jump through one of those Arches. A Native American told me that he when he was a kid, he jumped his friend and him were playing near the Arches. And when his friend jumped through the hoop, this Native American was like 75. But he told me a story 30 years ago, jumped through the thing and didn't come out the other side. The weird part is, is that his body was found high up on a mountain nearby, like 20 years later. And he had the same clothes on that he had when he jumped through the thing and he was the same size and everything. So he froze to death. He landed someplace way high up and froze to death. Wow. You know, I know you've brought this up before, but you think that all the hubbub about the missing 411 stuff, this could be related. And I've heard you say that you mentioned this theory to David Politis and he said, well, it sounds about right. But the story you just told, a person ends up on a mountaintop far away from where they disappeared. That is like textbook for the missing 411 stuff. It's like the person has to have been relocated somehow. So, yeah, very interesting possibility. You remember the guy, I think it was in Pennsylvania. He was skiing and he went down the ski slope and he'd never seen again. And then three weeks later, he showed up in California. Yeah. No memory, had a haircut, new clothes. And it's like, what? It's a weird world. And this plasma reality makes sense of a lot of strange things. So that's right. So the real secret of alchemy is plasma. It's a secret fire. So it says it all over the alchemy books. You can't do anything if you don't know the secret fire. And then they further describe it. It's the fire that does not burn. It's like, huh? You know, for years, I was like pondering what does this mean? The fire that does not burn. And then I had my final revelation probably about 20 years ago that it was all plasma. Plasma is 99% of the universe. Hard matter like us, we're 1% or less of the universe. And our physics only studies the 1%. They don't really bother much with the other 99%. Certain there are plasma physicists, but, you know, they don't really rate much in the world. The astro, I mean, astrophysicists rate higher. And, you know, so plasma has not made the rounds yet, but it's coming. And all supernatural experiences are interactions between humans and the plasma universe. Ghosts, apparitions, strange, weird things. If it's supernatural, if it's translucent, if you can see through the thing, then you're probably dealing with the plasma being. And they're everywhere. A report came out in February 2024 by a group of physicists and then another report in October of 24 by the same group. The first report had video, photographs, everything of the plasma beings from NASA and said that these are living, sentient beings that have predatory behavior and there are millions of them. And I've seen them. I know they exist. And they're made out of plasma. And then the second report talked about how they're all over our atmosphere, that planes should watch out because you might hit one of these things, right? Right after the October 2024 report came out, came all the plasma things in New Jersey and all across the world. All of a sudden, there was all these plasma events and people, oh, UFOs, UFOs. Now, look at them, well, that's a plasma being. So all of a sudden, they're making their appearance. And furthermore, the Vedic tech, talking about the cycles, say that when we come out of the Kali Yuga, we will see things that we could not see in the Kali Yuga, that we were blinded. And only by coming out of the Kali Yuga can we start seeing all of these strange things that are going on around us. And it's truly weird, dude. I know this dude, he got hit because he was a construction worker. And he got hit by a swinging chain with a hook on it. It hit him right beside the head really hard. He had a hard hat on, but his brain got sloshed over and had a huge concussion. And he went to the hospital. He's in the hospital for like a week. And they tell him he's got to go home. He can't work for like three weeks, right? So he goes home. He goes back to his apartment. And he's making himself a sandwich. He's sitting down to eat it. And all of a sudden, he sees like this translucent humanoid walking by it. And he's like, what the hell? And then he sees another one in his apartment. And they kind of interact with each other. And then pretty soon, one of them notices that he's noticing them. And so they both start looking at him like he's like some kind of weird creature, right? Like, what? You can see us? Right? And he got totally freaked out. He completely ignored them. And as he got healed, they slowly faded out. But what is a concussion? Your brain is plasma. So a concussion is when that plasma gets slammed up. And now you've got like a hole in your plasma, right? Like for at least until it heals, right? And that's what happened to him. He saw the plasma world that he couldn't see before. And he didn't want to see it anymore, believe me. Wow. He was really happy they faded out. Yeah, I can imagine. So yes, this plasma context and the cyclical cataclysm context, obviously, they have huge overlaps. But they make sense of so many little threads. I even think about Gobekli Tepe. And they say, well, why was it buried intentionally? Well, if it was an early version of a cathedral-type thing that actually did have a sky clock in it that kind of showed, hey, be ready for this, then, of course, these people would have buried it. Your book also goes on to talk about the idea of the Crusades or the Inquisition and the brutal destruction of the Cathars and the indigenous cultures that the Inquisition came across. You know, all this stuff, it's a new context for why that would happen, because it wasn't just to convert people to Christianity. It was like, well, we're going to create a new myth for humanity, or at least the West, and we got to remove all the indigenous people who remember the true nature of this system and how the cataclysm comes back around again. So that context was really interesting, but to add in a little more about the cross, so the cross points to, as you decoded, Inca Cave in Cusco, Peru, and when you got there, there is another cross. It seems like maybe it was a replacement for some previous cross, but there are massive tunnels there. So when you start to learn about the massive tunnels, they're kind of everywhere, so you could throw a dart on the map and probably find some tunnels underneath, but it's still significant that you decode this cross. It points to this area of Peru, and then here's an article I found yesterday on ColombiaOne.com from just last year, and it shows how far ahead you were on this. I mean, 20 years, but it reads, Inca Tunnel Network in Cusco, Peru. Scientists consult ancient texts for clues to its location. The first clue as to the existence of the tunnels came from a chronicle about an anonymous Jesuit, which dates back to the year 1600. According to this tome, while a church had been built on the site, a conscious effort had been made not to interfere with a deep pre-existing cave that had been made by Inca kings. It was understood that this cave crossed the entire city of Cusco, one of the oldest cities in Peru. Man, it just sounds like these scientists needed to have a copy of your book. Yep, they do, but they know about it because I'll tell you what happened is the book came out in 2003, and then I got an invite to go back to Peru in 2007. So I went to every single place where I knew there were the openings to the tunnel system that I'd already been in. They're all guarded by armed guards, every one of them. I couldn't get into any of them anymore. But if you're in Peru and you're in Cusco, there is something that will kind of prove my point. Go to the Temple of the Moon. Just ask one of your tour guides. It'll take you to it. I'm pretty sure you can see it. Go in there and look at the walls. They're perfectly straight. It's perfectly straight. And that's what the tunnel systems are like. So somebody, and it looks not like they're chiseled. It looks, frankly, like heat to me. Looks like something got really hot and then pushed it out. And it's exquisite work. And that's what the tunnels are like. They're completely square. And they're completely smooth, like some kind of heat was used on them. And they go all the way. I've heard from Inca shaman that there's a tunnel that goes all the way from Lima to Cusco. That's where they hid from the Spanish, right? The Inca. They hid all their wealth and everything down in the tunnel system. There's a famous story of a white woman married to an Indian, an Incan Indian. And she's just constantly berating her husband for being useless and not having any money and all that. And then one night, you know, she gets woken up. And he says, I got to put a blindfold on you. And so he puts a blindfold on her. He takes her somewhere. And then he takes off the blindfold. And she said, it was in this incredible cave. It was filled with gold and diamonds and everything. And he said, see, I have money. You know, he's trying to prove to her that he had money. And so he knew where the stash was, right? They probably all have been natives if I don't know where the stashes are. They're just not telling anybody. Right. There's another interesting story I like. I think it's a Native American story that has a similar motif of a white man married to a Native American. And they were married long enough that he got brought in to hear some of the secrets and shown some of the underground tunnels. And it was like, if you ever talk about this, there's dire consequences. And he talked about it. And they cut out his tongue. It's like, sorry, man. We got to protect our secrets. And it's so crazy. But to get more into this book, I know it's been 20 years. But the alchemist Fulcanelli, we should know a little bit more about him. He wrote this book, The Mysteries of the Cathedrals, in 1926. And then in a 1957 edition, he added a chapter called The Cyclic Cross of Hende. And this is where your story starts. Well, this guy in particular, we know that he wrote under a pseudonym. Some people don't think he's real. And you've told a story where the OSS, you know, pre-CIA, they went looking for him. And they sent 30 agents to France trying to find him, took one of his students and interrogated him pretty roughly for days on end. I mean, do we know who Fulcanelli was? He represented a group of alchemists that wanted to get the secret out before they knew what time it was because they knew they'd already been into the Cross of Hende. And they knew that it was now time to release, really, the information that alchemy is real. That's all Mystery of the Cathedrals does. It just reveals that there really is alchemy. Whatever you heard about it is wrong. And here's your symbols in the cathedrals and the Cross of Hende that prove that it's real. And now you figure it out. Pretty much that's what the book is about. And every 20 words or so is italicized. If you're reading the book, I definitely do a deep dive. Now you got grok or whatever on every italicized word. If you do that, you will be incredibly educated. I mean, and that's what I did. I didn't have AI or a computer and I had to use a library. But anyway, so all this stuff is all related. That's what's so weird about it. It's like alchemists are using plasmas in their experiments. And plasma is what caused the catastrophe. And plasma is the great secret of alchemy. So Fulconelli just really brought us the knowledge that it was all real and gave us the instruments to determine how to investigate it. Now the Cross of Hende's chapter came out in the 1957 edition. And if the CIA has just spent the last, you know, 10 years or so in 1957 searching for your ass, then all of a sudden you put out a new book with a new chapter. You think that's not going to cause some attention to be paid to that chapter? Of course it is. So what happens next? Oh, I don't know. 1958 is the geophysical year. All of a sudden, the United Nations is like pumping money like crazy into measuring everything on Earth. Everything. Ocean depths, mountaintops, everything, everywhere, going everywhere. Then in 1958, oh, that's when NASA got started. Oh, yeah, that's right. And what was NASA's mission to do? Go out in outer space and look for artifacts of ancient civilizations. It's right in their doctrine. And who started NASA? The Navy, you know. So over and over we see that there, oh, and then what happens in 1960? The dumps get started, right? The deep underground military bases begin digging. And they're clearly very concerned about something, right? And it all starts after the Cross of Hende chapter comes out. Then all of a sudden, there's a panic, a super panic. And what it is, is that my dealings with Freemasons have always been really disappointing. I read all these really cool Freemasonic books from hundreds of years old. And so I thought when I met Freemason, I would have this amazing esoteric discussion. And all I met were businessmen and salesmen. You know, that's all there were. There were no esoteric knowledge at all. So my theory is, is that they had just lapsed into forgetting everything, not reading their own books, not looking into anything. And then when the Cross of Hende came out, it was a total freak out, right? Somebody probably in deep in the Freemason world said, hey, that's what this book over here that was written in 1810 says, right? And that's what this book over here that was written 300 years ago says. And so they all started freaking out, put money in the geophysical year. They put money into everything, you know, and everything that they could do. And the secret space program. Let's not forget that. That started in the late 50s also, right? And what was the purpose of the secret space program? To get out of Dodge, right? To go somewhere away from the Earth, right? So the whole thing is just so obvious when you look back at it. And they're in full freak out. And I'll tell you what, after that book came out, I could get any wealthy, I'm talking like hundreds of millions of dollars, man to talk to me. They all wanted to talk to me. Everybody wanted to talk. What is this about? What's going on here? Because they're freaked out, right, about the whole thing. But I don't really think it's going to happen anytime soon. I'm not really all that worried about the catastrophe happening within 100 years or so. Oh, okay. I have heard other interviews where you weren't quite as confident. So I do want to talk about that because we often get into these subjects and people think it's something immediate. And then if it's not immediate, they just dismiss it entirely. And I think that's a fallacy because you've even said that although World War II was very devastating, lots of people died, you kind of conclude that it was in part a cover for a series of missions by the Germans to Peru, Tibet, North Africa, and Asia, and Antarctica, searching for something in an almost desperate fashion. Like they knew the world was short-lived and they wanted an escape route. That's a quote from a previous interview, but Hitler did visit Hende specifically, which I do find to be pretty interesting. And you've also said that in British English, there's a little bit of a wordplay there because usually they drop the H. So even Hende is N-day. And it's like there's these little coded things. It's like a game of telephone where we're a little bit away from the original meaning, but not quite. You can still reverse engineer it. And then what happens after N-day, it's Hende. It's the rebirth, right? Right. So the hen is laying the egg, right? And rebirthing. Right. So it's like, what? And, you know, you do call this a season of catastrophe. And I like the season analogy that things go around. This is just a higher scaled up version of the seasons we experience on the planet. You say that the intelligence of the design is that, well, this happens to burn off all the bad. And I like the concept of that. But then I have to ask, well, if the elite have got a monopoly on the information and they've got kind of a monopoly on the resources to avoid the cataclysm, it's almost like they jail broke the system. Although this kind of a reset would certainly shake up any centralized control system. You could say that in that regard, like the elite are always building up to total global control. And then this happens and we're all kind of back in the Stone Age. And they might have an advantage to know it's coming and to kind of get back on the surface and kind of restart their thing. But it definitely does throw a wrench in their little machine. But talk to us about that, just the nature of it being a season and what it seems to be designed for and how you think it's gone in the past and what might happen with this next round. Yeah. So the Kali Yuga is like winter, right? It's the depths of winter. It's freezing cold out. Nothing works. Everything's breaking because of the cold, especially if you live at 8,000 feet like me. And that's what it's like. And then the summer is the golden age, right? And then the spring are the two intervening yugas and fall. You go through a whole one catastrophe causes another catastrophe, causes another catastrophe. So that's how it works. So, you know, will the elite survive? They're certainly trying to. I know that what you're saying. But I don't know if I'd want to be underground if suddenly there was this gigantic increase in temperature on the surface. I'm not sure you'd be protected that much. And I'm pretty sure that the solar catastrophe is going to hit Mars, too. In fact, that's the four planets around the angry sun, those little stars. I believe that's Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars, right? That's the four inner planets. The hard planets get hit by the solar storm. I heard Elon Musk go, oh, we've got to get to Mars because Mars won't get hit by the solar storm. I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Of course it's going to get hit by it. Right. And you've got no atmosphere there either. So what the hell? Another place where you have those lightning strike-looking scars along its surface, just like the Grand Canyon. This is the plasma thing. It's hitting everybody. You can't get out of the way. Although, you know, you mentioned the Hopi story. There are stories where the legend is being taken somewhere else and then brought back. And I don't want to distract too much from this idea of what might have happened with the last cataclysm and this idea that they kind of get right back up to restarting civilization. They do seem to have a little bit of an advantage, don't you think? Oh, yeah. Big advantage. So I just don't think it's as easy as – there's just a lot of variables. I mean, let's say you do have an opening in a mountain into a tunnel and you all go in there. What happens if there's a landslide? Right. What happens if there's an earthquake and your opening is closed up and you're stuck in there? Right. So you'd have to really think it out. And I'm sure that they've got the smartest guys on earth thinking it out, you know, like Dr. Strangelove. And they'll probably survive. We won't. But maybe it's a good thing that they survive. You know, it's also – I mean, let me see how I can put this. There was a break in Freemasonry in the 1700s. What happened is, is that the schism was between what I call the ones who actually know what alchemy is and the ones who don't know but think they know. Okay. And the ones that do know broke off and said, no, we can't have any more to do with these guys. They're not good people. You can't do alchemy if you're an asshole, by the way. So they broke off from them and they went underground. That's where Fulconelli comes from, this group that went underground. And the other group became the Illuminati. They took over the world in the 1700s. That's when they took over the world. And that was their goal. And I think what happened is the first group found out the plans of the bad group and said, holy crap, we don't have nothing to do with this. And so this group lives underground, not underground, literally, but underground, hidden from us in civilization because they're worried that the other guys are going to fight them and kill them because they're looking for them. Because why? Because the first group has the secrets of alchemy, which means they can live a long time, they have enlightenment and all that. And this other group wants to live a long time, but they can't because they're assholes. So, you know, when the alchemists would get arrested by the king and the king would say, give me the elixir of life. I want to live a long time. The alchemists would go, I can give it to you. It's not going to do you any good. They say, why? It's because you're a freak. You know, it's not going to work on you. Right. So right now, this secret group, this hidden group, contacts us through telepathic means. Because that's the only way they can operate without getting caught. And so they come into your certain people and they have a giant influence on them and they make things happen. Books fall on them that they want them to read and suddenly doors are open, you know, and it all feels very mysterious to the person it's happening to. But that's how they operate. And right now they're operating on total overtime. They are, the good guys are using the technology of the bad guys to spread the word about what this universe really is. And the war is really heating up and the bad guys are feeling the heat and they don't understand where this is all coming from, how people can suddenly know things that they shouldn't know and all of that. And that's where this is coming from. And so it's like the universe responds to us, talks to us. If you know how to listen, then you will get a great advantage. And I believe that I've been contacted by this group. Uh, I have a couple of very strange experiences where I believe I was contacted by this group and, and they want me to, uh, do everything I can to get all this shit out. Hmm. I love it. And I wanted to fold in just a little bit about the whole climate change agenda. So in this context, it does appear that it's a way to a explain changes to people that they'll see. Cause you'll see these changes or this extreme weather, if they're not making it themselves, they can at least say, see, this is what you did. And this is where we are. So people aren't surprised by strange things that they might see, but also it allows them to profit from these changes. Cause climate change comes with a lot of new rules and regulations. And it also allows them to limit people's lives and mobility. So if on, in the name of climate change, you can't travel because it produces too much CO2. Well, it also hurts your ability to survive this situation where they're going to have a whole different set of rules to get through. But talk to us a little bit about that. Do you think the climate change agenda and the way it came on the scene right at this point in time relates to the cycle and where we might be in it? I think they're using climate change for many things. One, yeah, to explain away the weird stuff that's going to happen and it will happen as we go through cycles. And of course, you're trying to make a lot of money off of it. But the real reason they're doing climate change is so that you're living in perpetual fear. Now you're afraid of the weather. You know, it's like, you know, it's just ridiculous. So I did a man on the street interview in 2005 and I went to this town I was living in and I had my wife take the microphone and ask people stuff. We interviewed this girl, two girls that were probably 14 years old. She said, what do you think is going to happen in 20 years? That was the question we were asking. And they're like, oh, everybody will be underwater. Everything will be flooded. And I was like, holy crap. Here we are 20 years later or 2000, yeah, 20 years later and none of it happened. You know, and this is what these kids have been taught. They're living in perpetual fear. They're 12 years old. They're completely terrified of the weather. Come on, you know. And so, you know, just the archons doing their dirty work. Yes. And I heard you say in an interview that was actually three years old, but I was looking for something along these lines. But you said when you're trying to assess where we are in the cycle and how soon it might be really coming up, you really want to look at Canada's weather for warning signs. Do you still feel that way? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think. You want it to be heating up or you want, is that what we're looking for? No, no. Colder? We're looking for it to get it so cold they can't grow food. Hmm. Yeah, that's what's going on. We're not going into heat. We're going into cold. Grand solar minimum kind of stuff. Yeah, we spent, what, how long was the ice age? 300,000 years? Something like that? I mean, the norm is the ice age. The last, the swarming that we've been going through is absolutely not the norm. And it won't last. And there was a guy, he wrote a book about all this. It was really good. He bought land in British Columbia. He's American. And he brought land in British Columbia, convinced that because of climate change in a couple of years, he'd be able to grow grapes in British Columbia. And so he bought it about 100, 500 acres up there and got all this grape, waiting for the climate to change. And he's growing potatoes. And it never came. Right. And this was 20 years ago. So it never came. Right. 20 years ago, they were telling us that, what was it? Global dimming or something? That the sun was going to dim out on us. It never happened. The problem when you get to be my age is you remember all the, all the scare tactics is like, oh man, I remember in the 1970s, a cover of Time magazine. Are we going into a new ice age? You know, and then 20 years later, oh, the climate change is heating up the world. And we're like, oh. Well, it's like, there is a cycle. There is change, but it's, it's such a long arc that they kind of just use it to keep your mind occupied and waste the life you do have here. There is a 400 year cycle. Well, there's many cycles within this larger cycle. There is a 400 year cycle, 1600. The weather started warming up in Europe again. It was cold until that. 400 years before that, 1200 with the Cathars are up and the weather was nice. And then 400 years before that, you just keep going back and back. End of Rome is 400 years before that. 400 years before that is, you know, the turn of the century and Roman Empire being built in Julius Caesar, 400 years before that. So you can see there's some kind of cycle going. That's a 400 year cycle within the larger 12,000 year cycle. So it's very strange. And we're in one of those 400s right now, right now in there. And I don't know what's going to happen with that. Right now, we're really at the crux of about four cycles, four of these mini cycles with the larger cycle. Okay. And that's why everybody is freaking out and going crazy. We manifested for the big show, it seems. Before we go, I just wanted to touch on some of your other work and recent stuff. You put out A Clockwork Shining, Kubrick's Odyssey 3. Well, what does that add to the stack of the first two? So it's on Amazon, by the way, folks, if you want to get it. I think it's only like a buck 50. But so Clockwork Shining is about how The Shining with Jack Nicholson is really about MKUltra program and that the whole that the overlook is like the United States and Jack is the MKUltra victim and the program is trying to get Jack to kill his family. That's the whole point of the program. And all through the movie, our MKUltra symbols slipped into the movie, which when I first saw it, I had no idea. It was only now later that I've studied MKUltra that I've figured it out that I'm like, oh, my God, that's why he put that in there. Well, that's why he put that in there and and things that didn't make sense in the shining. Yes, it's still about moon landing and all that, which is the MKUltra operation, by the way. And but that Kubrick was telling us about several different MKUltra operations. Shelley Duvall's reading Catcher in the Rye at the very beginning of the movie. Well, Catcher in the Rye was written by J.D. Salinger, who was an OSS agent. And and it's the whole book is about how the Freemasons are taking over the world. He calls them Egyptians in the book. But it's clear that the hero of the book, Holden Caulfield, is a Freemason. And he has a he has a people killing hat that he puts on. So when he wants to kill people, he puts his hat on. And the whole book is just so we do that. We pull that out. We should talk about that. And then other symbols and things that happen all through the movie are directly related to MKUltra. And don't forget, Kubrick made A Clockwork Orange 10 years earlier, which is about mind control. So I watched the trailer for A Clockwork Shining. And yeah, Catcher in the Rye. We know that has been used for programming assassins before at least twice. Hinkley had it on him. And then there was another one who also had David Chapman. Shot Blannon. Chapman. I think I'm messing that up. Chapman is the one who had it. And there is another one. No, no. Hinkley was reading it. Oh, really? He shot Megan. They reused the same script so many times. I can't keep it straight. But then also in the trailer, you show that there is a poster that just says Monarch in big letters. And it's like, oh, Project Monarch. Very related. Clearly that's in there for a reason. Yeah. We interviewed Kathy O'Brien in the movie and she was a victim of Project Monarch. There you go. And I also wanted to at least touch on Darcy Weir's latest documentary, Dark Alliance, the inside story of the Cosmic Con, largely about David Wilcock and Corey Goode. And this big dust up with Gaia TV when you were the head of programming and there were lawsuits involved in all this stuff. I definitely saw that from afar and stayed far away from it. But it seems like that's the final word on the whole story and everything. Well, tell people a little bit about that, your involvement in it, and what the end of that story is. So David Wilcock had a show on Gaia called Wisdom Teaching. And we had a rule of Gaia that all the hosts of all the shows all got paid the same because we knew they'd talk to each other. If one was getting more than the other, it'd be a big fight. Yeah. So everybody got paid the same. And he came to me, he said, I need a raise. And I said, I can't give you a raise. I said, because you have to make the same as everybody else. Sorry, that's the way it is. And he said, oh, shit, you need to know what to do. And then finally, I thought about it for a few days. I came back and he said, you could start another show. And then you get the same pay, but it'd be twice the pay. And he says, that's a great idea. So we worked out, we tried two or three different things, and none of them really worked. And it looks like it wasn't going to go. We couldn't find another subject matter that would make it exciting enough to get an audience. And then one day, I get told by David that he's met the insider's insider. And he wants to do a show with him. I'm like, oh, boy. So then I said, okay, we'll bring him in. And we'll meet him. So he comes in, and it's Corey Goode. And Corey Goode tells us that he's in the secret space program for 20 years. And he's been to Mars and the moon. And he's hid with the reptilians. And, you know, I'm with my boss. We're both listening to this. And, you know, I'm like, eh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But my boss really liked it, you know. He thought it was great. So we did a show, Cosmic Secret, or Cosmic Disclosure. And the company, Gaia, threw their weight behind it. It was the only show that I produced on Gaia that literally the entire company got thrown its weight behind it. So it became a huge hit, gigantic hit. The show had been going on. I was just really, my boss was really the guy who was the producer. I really just set up the cameras and the lights and mics and everything and made sure it all ran well. So I wasn't really charged with content. But I was watching the content. And as the content went on and on, I was like, got more and more like, what the heck? And finally, I caught Corey in a couple of errors, you might say, where he had said something that I knew had been broadcast by someone else a week earlier. Right? And now he was using that verbatim saying it. And I confronted him. I took my computer with the camera and I went right out into the studio and said, you got this from here. And, you know, and gear in the headlights and everything. So anyway, to make a long story short, I finally decided to quit producing the show. I did quite enough of it after two years. And somebody else took over. And then six months after, and I warned everybody, that guy, I sat on the manager board and I said, this is going to damage this company like no tomorrow. That dude is radioactive. We need to find a way out of this. Right? And I know they all heard me. And they laughed at me. And they thought I was silly. Two weeks later, David Wilcock writes a 21-page resignation letter, calling everybody a guy, a lucifer, luciferian. Then Corey begins a three-year campaign against Gaia, driving down its stock from $30 a share to $5 a share. And he's going all over the internet. And he's doing everything he can to destroy Gaia. Not realizing, of course, and he now knows this, that we treated him better than anybody else. He went to all other producers after he left Gaia and got crapped on. The distributors destroyed him. They all lied to him. I was telling him the whole time he was a guy, you have no idea, dude, how good you got it. I've been in showbiz for 40 years. That place is a jungle. And so then eventually I found out that he was doxing people with his little cadre of people. And they were doxing people that were my friends. And so I went public. I got a YouTube show, Reality Check, and I went and went after him. And I said, I told all the lies that he told and how he ripped off my film, The Last Avatar. And I went on and on and on. And then he wrote me an email saying that he was going to sue me, steal all my money, and crush me into the ground. And that was in 2019. In 2020, he sued me the same week that the lockdown happened. I got a $5 million lawsuit with Cliff High and Chanter and Gaia and one other person. I couldn't understand why he was suing this other person. After $50,000 in lawyer fees, it got dismissed in April 24 and April 1st, 2024. Now Gaia has a gigantic lawsuit against him. They've tried to settle, but Corey can't settle because Gaia very likely is going to take his hide. And, and Corey, if you're listening, I can tell you, I have not talked to Gaia in years, but I know a lot. And I can tell you, they got something on you, dude. You should just give up. I mean it. You're going to take it all the way because I know you're a stubborn criminal. Man. Well, I appreciate you laying that out. I know you get asked about it and people love the little dramas. And, you know, David Wilcock in this story is one of the very few things I've said no to covering because it just seemed like a bridge too far to me. And I know that that makes me look like a hypocrite because people can look through the 15 year history and be like, dude, you've covered a lot of really crazy out there, weird stuff. That was something you thought was too much. And it wasn't that it was too much. I mean, the 20 and back thing is too much to me. I don't understand why they would take people and have them work in the secret space program off planet and then bring you back into a body and de-age you 20 years. They just kill those people if they really wanted to. Of course they would. But they would be so afraid the secrets would get out. Right. It was more about just the sliminess of the thing and like maybe the fact that it just seemed like a red herring and it was so popular that I was like, I'm going to not do this one. But I don't know. I just appreciate you saying so. And I know you get into a lot of stuff and we have to be open minded, but also somewhat critical because we know they're lying to us. We just don't know to what degree. That's right. Take everything with a large grain of salt. Yes. And with that, I mean, it was great to talk to you again after a decade. I'm glad we're both still kicking and doing our thing, but I know you have a lot of irons in the fire. Do leave people with your links and anything else they should know about coming down the pike. Yeah, I have a seven part series. I've shot, it's all called The Invisible Universe. It's about the plasma universe and it's got Robert Temple and all sorts of big wigs in it. It's going to be great. I'll have that out by the end of the year, I hope. Amazing. So yeah, jaywidener.com, sacredmysteries.com. Yep. And a reality check on YouTube. Love it. Awesome. Well, again, glad we could talk. And I love this story of the cross of Henday. I know it's going back 20 years for you, but it's a little fresh for me. And it does seem to be the most important story we could tell. So thank you for doing it and take care. You bet. All right, man. Thanks. And boom goes the dynamite, guys. The return of the great Jay Widener. I will be honest. I put Jay in a pretty high category of people that I have liked in this field over the years. But the Corey Goode, David Wilcock days were a big turnoff. And I'm glad we could fit in a little bit about that at the end. I'm glad he's distancing himself. Maybe should have done it sooner. Happy it happened at all. And forgive me if I sound a little bit sick. It's because I am. I got sick in summer, unvaccinated. I don't know how this could happen. My EMF environment isn't that bad. I've been getting sunlight, not eating terribly. I'm a little pissed. But the show must go on. And I would say, based on what I just said, yeah, now I'm thinking about it. You can find, obviously, things in the THC archive that are level 11, over-the-top, wild, just like the Corey Goode stuff. So to even be super critical of that probably makes me look like a hypocrite. But I just know that ridiculous stuff is seeded in this culture to distract us and get us caught up on false narratives. And that is what his material always felt like to me. Even if we interview some rogue researchers who have wild conclusions, to me that's different than something that seems seeded. It seems to have inauthentic, inorganic momentum. Like, that's enough. That's a little different. I can entertain a guy like Howdy Makowski or J Dreamers because I still think they're independent researchers who maybe just go pretty far with it. Is the distinction making sense? Does it even matter? Anyway. And David Wilcock. Man, you will not hear me use the term grifter very often. But saying that he's a reincarnated version of Edgar Cayce to his crying on air in that interview. I think it was Coast to Coast because his life was in danger. And then the Corey Goode stuff. And then he made a full-on QAnon documentary. So, he really is the definition of someone who jumps to whatever is trendy and doesn't really have much of his own thing. And David Wilcock fans will be screaming into their phones right now because he does have some pretty wild, deep books like the source code. But I said what I said. And I've also said this before, but there's really only two high-level people I turned down for the show in 15 years. And when I say high-level, I mean episodes that I know would have gotten views but just didn't feel right to me. And that's David Wilcock and Roger Stone. It's funny to see so many comedy podcasts interviewing Trump and J.D. Vance and Kosh Patel. Even a little bit of Steve Bannon getting around making the rounds. Well, just anyone connected to the administration. Because to me, I like being counterculture. I like being on the outside talking about what's going on on the inside. I wouldn't want to get too cozy with the insiders because the nature of interviews is largely going to be friendly. I can't help but be friendly. And I'm not a very controversial person despite the material that we talk about. But I'm not confrontational either. And so, you get in a situation where you're just going to look soft and naive if you're not willing to ask the insiders the really tough stuff. And if you ask them the really tough stuff, they'll probably just say, well, you can't air that interview anyway or we'll sue you. Easier just to talk about them than to be sitting down with them, I guess. But irrelevant. Either way, big Jay Widener fan. Can't believe this Cross of Henday work completely got overshadowed by the Kubrick work and the Archon stuff in the early days. But I guess I was 29 when we last spoke, so I just don't think I saw the value in something like the Cross of Henday work as I do today. Even cyclical cataclysm. That's a big theme these days. It really wasn't back in the day, maybe. I mean, pre-2012, sure. But I guess maybe we're just going through that again. You know, just that mindset is resurging. But I also was going to mention that, yeah, it is a little unfortunate that he kicked off with the Voyager anecdote. Because I also definitely do not think we can maintain contact with something like that. I know I'm not alone in wishing he didn't go there, especially so early. We can't even keep a phone call going in a tunnel or an elevator. So save it with this thing of us getting signals from far out in space from something we sent up in the 1970s. The heliosphere, they say, is this protective bubble of the entire solar system, and we're all inside of it, all the planets. So you send this 1970s technology probe out of that bubble, and it still works? You don't even know what's outside of that bubble, really, or maybe even what's inside it. But how are you going to plan for something that still works 50 years later through all sorts of foreign materials, foreign types of radiation, heat, extreme cold? Come on. But like John Perkins saying that defunding USAID is a shame and vaccines are saving lives in indigenous South American tribes, sometimes we just go with it and let them say their thing so we can get to the actual good stuff a person is here to talk about. Like talking about the cathedrals as not originally just Catholic buildings but alchemical vessels. Here are actually some images from the book showing the Tree of Life overlaid with the front facings of some of these cathedrals. Pretty interesting. I expected to talk a lot more about Fucinelli, and I actually bought the book in question. But he summed it up pretty well in terms of what was relevant. And I also wanted to mention the missing 411 stuff. We did touch on that. If I can remember correctly, sometimes the research I do, the preparation I do, listening to a guest talk a bunch of times, and then a week goes by. I'm like, did they say that on my show? Or am I just remembering them saying that somewhere else? But we did touch on it. I'm pretty sure. But I wanted to add that in the David Politis books that I've read, it's very common for people to say they felt a weird static in the air, or smelled something weird, or even described the hearing of a crackling sound. Maybe these are portals opening up in the landscape. Hard to know for sure. Last time I talked to David, I think he emphasized the big boulders being nearby often, and Jay looped that in too. Stone gates, in a sense. Some plasma relationship with stone. Wild stuff. So, great first hour. Great second hour for the plus people. We talked a lot more about the details of potential resets, especially in North America. Why all these empty streets and landscape photos of entire cities. We talked about the orphan trains and the repopulation motifs. Life, death, and the plasma body. I thought he really knew that well. Do not cremate your loved ones, folks. We got deeper into the cathedrals, Tibet, and the underground civilizations, Rosicrucians again. I swear I'm not even trying to bring them up into every interview. It just keeps happening. So, sign up for plus if you want more show. It's the only funding mechanism of this show, and it's the most honest if you ask me. Okay. So, let's get back to the repopulation of North America thing and the orphan trains. I love that we have video now just for this reason. Because when it comes to wanting to show you video, it's almost always been about those postcards. So, I think we talked about it in the plus show. So, for free listeners, this maybe doesn't make a lot of sense. Although, the context of repopulation and resets, it was what the whole show was about. But this particular thread goes like this. So, there were a lot of orphans in the late 1800s. Some say there's a good reason for this. Some say mass vaccination gone wrong. Some say Europeans just wanted to send their kids off to America for a chance at a better life. Whatever the reason, another one people threw out is, I mean, war. There was the Moor Empire and the whole battle there. Yeah, I guess a lot of adults could have died. But whatever the reason, there were a lot of unaccounted for children. And then you have these postcards. Many are French. And I guess it could be just a weird sensibility of the time. Quirky humor. But it feels like a little more than that. So, the suggestion, the alternative suggestion, is that they were growing or cloning babies at that time. And then using them to populate areas that had all the people wiped out, but the buildings still standing. Maybe from some kind of cataclysm they weren't even aware of. Maybe these cities have had buildings empty for a decade plus. And they're just sending people out to them. It's hard to know anything. But the reason I think this is deeper than just a jokey postcard thing is because of the Cabbage Patch Kids brand in the 80s. Why did that emerge? Why was it so popular? Well, I looked up the founder of Cabbage Patch Dolls. And it was some guy who got notoriety for their interesting aesthetic design. Which he actually ripped off from some woman and then got sued. That's not important. He called them little people. They weren't called Cabbage Patch Dolls until they were sold to a company called Calico. Or Calico, I believe it is. Because gamers might remember the term CalicoVision. It was an early gaming system that competed with Atari. But Calico Industries, according to Wikipedia, was an American company founded in 1932 by Maurice Greenberg of the Connecticut Leather Company. So, now we don't have this huge leap from the 1800s to 1980 when we remember the Cabbage Patch Kids brand being popular. Now, we're a lot closer to a person who might know what this was about. Might remember these old postcards and some potential operation from that time. Because the guy formed this company in the 1930s. So, maybe he saw the greater significance. And Maurice Greenberg. There are several historically significant guys with that name. And the one we want doesn't have a Wikipedia page. But apparently, he was a Russian-Jewish immigrant. So, do the Russian Jews know a little bit about this cloning thing? Hard to say. I saw this comment on a thread about the Cabbage Patch Kids, too. I thought it was worth reading. But somebody says, My grandfather told me that his grandfather was dropped off on the porch to the family in the early 1850s. I never thought much about it until I heard this Cabbage Patch Theory. It really had me wondering if his grandfather was one of these Cabbage Patch Babies. And, yeah, I think a lot of families have these stories of a member of their family kind of just integrating. It wasn't all so closed. I think our family trees were a little more open in the past because things would happen to adults and kids needed to be cared for. It could be related. I don't know. A lot of things happen. War. Poverty. But it is a provocative rabbit hole to go down. And we've been down it a couple times, so I'm sure you guys know. But good interview with Jay. He is a pro, no doubt. In Higher Side News, it seems like the transcript archive is done. We're still working out the kinks of having the two sites talk to each other to verify memberships. But we're very, very close. And it should show up in the next couple of days on the website for $12 tier members. And you'll see a button right under the video that will take you there. So the way we've structured it is there's just a box that is for the $12 people. And that box contains the video episode and this button. And, you know, I've been kind of playing around with it. It is very slick. And it breathes a lot of new life into the archive. And I just want to get it working. And then if we open it up for 30 days for all the current regular Plus members, like I wanted to do initially, that's great. Because it is important that people see what they're asked to sign up for before they sign up for it. Although the video episodes, I think, really is the main draw. But either way, that is about it around here. I am sorry that that functionality is late, kind of out of my hands. But let's also move on to the last interview with Matthew Eretz and the response from it. Very mixed, as I expected. I actually think it was so detail-dense that some listeners struggled to actually understand what was going on when some of the comments just didn't make sense to me. The reactions I got back. One of them was that I interrupted way too much, which I kind of disagree with. I let them go for 10 or 15 minutes at a time, didn't say anything. And the core questions were still not addressed in a couple of cases. And then there were some people that said me pushing back is a bad look. Or I should open my mind more to what the guest was saying. And that is where I wonder if they truly understand who had the closed mind. To clarify, Matthew does not think the Oracle of Delphi or the Sibyls had any actual psychic talent at all. He thinks it was all smoke and mirrors mixed with different forms of abuse. He doesn't think Tesla was just a paper cutout character. He thinks there is no alternative energy field at all. He doesn't just think that the occultists run the world because they have a monopoly on occult power. He thinks the occult and magic is just kind of fake. He thinks it's all Siegfried and Roy, David Blaine style illusions. He doesn't think there's any real reality to the paranormal or abductions or anything like that. And this is obviously the stuff I'm pushing back on. You know, he can recite all the history and names and dates that he wants. And he is very, very talented in that regard. And he's a great speaker. There's a lot that I'm like, man, I wish I was that good. I wish I had that recall. But to say that anything in the metaphysical, paranormal, esoteric box is an illusion or that most of it is, I guess he leaves the door cracked open barely with that anecdote he gave. But he doesn't think there's a reality to it. So that to me is a big thing. You're so close to a materialist when that's like kind of something that almost all of our guests are past. But either way, to say it's all an illusion and a Rosicrucian cult just trying to promote a fake paradigm, I think goes too far. And I would imagine many of you feel the same. I would suggest he read Dean Radin's Real Magic or Lynn McTaggart's Power of Eight for a start. And honestly, I'm mentally tortured enough over that episode that I just kind of want to move on from thinking about it. Because from the moment it was recorded, I mean, even while it was being recorded, I was like, hmm, I am not doing very good here. But the plus rating clocked in at 3.7, the lowest in a very long time. I'm sure part of that is me. But I know part of it is him not directly answering the questions and some of the data that he would go to and cite. And then this attitude that nothing metaphysical is real. But I'm just going to take the L and move on. And I've got the next three recorded already. And I'm very pleased with them. So onward and upward, I say. I imagine this one today that I'm releasing will be received way more favorably. But all right. Two down for July. Three to go. Meetup calendar incoming. Let's see where the listeners are having their THC events. We're jumping all the way down to July 16th, Ontario Ranch, California at Brew Haven. And then also July 16th, New Haven, Connecticut. There is a meetup at NOLO. And July 20th, we got Centralia, Washington. Bub's Pub, Sports Bar and Grill. I'm pretty sure that's new. And then Colorado Springs, Colorado also on July 20th at the Crooked Q. July 21st, Gale Bratz, Alehouse, Eden, Terrence, Auckland, New Zealand. You know that it's happening. And then August 1st, Bentonville, Arkansas, Danger Dave's, another new one. And Astoria, Oregon at the Astoria Brewing Company on August 8th. So awesome. Glad to see the calendar is getting some use. It is there for you to expand your network and get offline a bit and have real world interactions with like-minded locals. Take advantage of it at thehighersidechats.com. But that is really it. Jay, again, crushes it every time. Big thanks. Thankfully, he took me up on this offer to talk about such old work. It doesn't always happen. I hope he sells some books over it. But that is it. I've done my part. Your move. Cathedral co-opters, cross of Hyundai hiders, and cyclical cataclysm deniers. You're fucking. A spark of inspiration said, if we build it, they will come. The message was mysterious underneath the midnight sun. The flicker of the fire gave a hint of something there. An outline took its shape. The deeper into... Just follow it, just couldn't put it down. When the steps were all complete. Just like we've instructed you. And this strange conscious connection will ensue. We've instructed you. And this strange conscious connection will ensue.