Jeremiah Skiba & Jake Grant | The Wrongful Death of Rob Skiba, WACO, & The Flat Earth Mindset

The planet's puppet masters almost surely... No higher side chatters from the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And if there's anything the parasitic elite class of the power pyramid knows well, it's that their greatest security from organized resistance and outright rebellion is to keep the dials of distraction and division turned right on up to 11. So discontent, disinformation, and emotional manipulation drive a wedge in any less than airtight relationships and give them all the bread and circuses they can stomach. Then you can pretty much do anything. No wonder they don't respect us. But how many times recently have we seen the most mind-controlled among us suffer a completely cold-hearted lapse in human empathy over an arbitrary political or philosophical dialectic divide with someone who has suffered an objectively terrible tragedy? It's something I rarely thought about before 2020. But from COVID to Charlie Kirk and LGBTQ stuff to immigration issues, there's been a lot of reserving our compassion and grace only for those that think strictly like we do, the right way. The system has succeeded in making it seem dangerous to hold alternative ideas while making blind faith and complete compliance appear virtuous. And worse still, they've caused a lot of people to assess someone through a mental checklist of pre-approved ideas before opening up to a human connection, emotional residence, or even simple basic human kindness. The social crediting system is here, folks, being tallied in the minds of those all around us. Well, nowhere are these new realities more obvious than in the lives of today's guests, Jeremiah Skiba and Jake Grant. If you don't know, Jeremiah is the adopted son of Rob Skiba, a popular conspiracy commentator, award-winning filmmaker, and the author of books like Archon Invasion, The Rise, Fall, and Return of the Nephilim, and Babylon Rising, The First Shall Be Last. But if you Google his name, you'll be greeted with page after page of headlines serving up various configurations of the phrase flat-earth anti-vaxxer dies of COVID, each with their own comment sections of predictable gloating, mockery, and condescension. Conveniently leaving out that Rob's wife, Sheila, then wrote a 400-plus page book documenting the entire horror show of their hospital experience titled The Protocol That Kills, A True Crime Story. Well, that was 2023, and Sheila is also no longer with us, but carrying the torch is their son Jeremiah and Rob's old co-host Jake Grant, now working together at Skiba News Nation across YouTube, Rumble, Patreon, and all the places. So let's go. The flat-earth faithful, cultural critics, and card-carrying conspiracy co-pilots Jeremiah and Jake. Jake and Jeremiah, welcome to THC. Hey, thanks for having us, man. Great to be here. Of course. So I always try to keep the intro down to one page, but this one really needs a lot of information up front. I really learned about all this when you guys were kind enough to have me on Skiba News Nation and basically educated me on the whole story. I didn't even know Rob died, though I did know he was one of the biggest names in the flat-earth community, especially from a biblical perspective. But after hearing about all this from you guys, I really felt like I had a duty to try to help tell this story, even though there would be a lot Rob and I wouldn't agree on. But welcome to life, I say. If we were to just go back a bit, Jeremiah, you sort of had a classic deadbeat dad, but Rob and your mom met, fell in love, and after two years, he proposed to her and requested to adopt you as his own son when you were 13 back in 2007. You had 18 years as a happy family, and then my understanding is Rob went to the doctor in 2021 with what your mom, Sheila, described as a mild cough. And I guess pick up the story from there. Well, a mild cough and he couldn't keep any food down. That was the main thing, the cough and the food. And so we had, you know, people always say, like, why did you take him to the hospital? Why did you take him to the hospital? Because we trusted this hospital because we've had family members. It was like our family hospital. And they had taken great care of so many people that we know and love. And my mom or somebody would always be able to be there with them. And so little did we know that this place of healing turned into a concentration camp and a death factory. And that's pretty much what it was in a nutshell. Well, it's pretty well established now that the COVID protocols like remdesivir and the ventilators killed quite a few people who likely would have been fine otherwise. And Rob actually knew this already because it was 2021. My understanding is he was in the hospital for 40 days. 40 days. Very biblical, actually. Yeah. And they wouldn't let my mom in. They had armed guards. First time I ever heard about this is armed guards at the front of the hospital, not letting any family members and not even my mom. And if there was a family member, it was only one. So I wrote a book before hers came out called Never Got to Say Goodbye. And when people kind of knew our backstory, it was the craziest time that I've ever experienced on this earth. Them just pretty much holding him hostage. I mean, they they just they kept him and he was it was forced isolation. It was starvation. It was heavy sedation. It was forced ventilation. And I convinced my mom after he passed to do an independent autopsy. Guess what? There's no COVID in the system. They shredded his lungs. He would have never came out of the hospital alive because of what they did. They cut off his DNI bracelet. They did all these things to him. And he lived for 40 days. It was a miracle that he even lived long enough for my mom to go in there to see him. Right. OK, so he goes to the hospital. He gets diagnosed with COVID. They probably make you take a test. I remember the test pops positive, which we know, you know, is kind of a coin flip anyway. So once it pops positive, you are in the pipeline. Then my understanding is it was 21 days before he was allowed any visitation. Correct. So, you know, you don't know that this is going to happen in three weeks. Your dad is locked up in the hospital. He can't walk out. You guys can't walk in. They are recommending intubation, but he knows not to do that. So I have a few texts that were sent that this is part of the marketing for the book. These are the saddest things ever. Yeah. So this is an image that is marketing from the book. But these are the texts from your dad. No, no food doing all they can to try to get me to agree to intubate. I'm dead if they do. No strength. No hope left. I'm sure this is just a sampling of the communications that you were having through this time. But walk us through like what happened in these communications, because it started off where you were all quite surprised at the direction this was taking. And then obviously we know where it went. But walk us through that process. The process of him texting and stuff. Yeah. Just his mind state, what they were trying to get him to do. I mean, how do you get a guy to intubate? A lot of us can sit here and say, I'd never do that. I wouldn't let them do that to me because I already know what it would do. I think everybody has their line and everybody can be pushed past it. Is that assuming what happened to Rob? Well, what happened was he had a DNI as soon as he went into the hospital. Do not intubate bracelet. We found out later that they had cut that off. OK, so here in the state of Texas for them to be able to do something if somebody is not being able to verbally speak, which if that was the case, they would have to have a recording of that. And they would have to present that to us, which is kind of an off track story. But me and my mom put spy glasses on, went inside and found the person who signed his death warrant, pretty much said he's verbally said it. And she admitted the fact that she was just signing them over the phone, just not from the patient, but from the doctor. So she was signing all of these people's death warrants and basically eliminating them. I mean, it's just it's just so so insane that somebody can do that and kill another human. And, you know, I don't I don't blame her. Or there's a lot of people I do blame, but I don't want to really, you know, get sued over that. But I know for a fact that he wouldn't intubate. They cut off his bracelet. I mean, that just that's all kinds of laws broken, in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, I don't see how they get away with, you know, somebody's religious right is what he said. That's my religious right not to be intubated, not to be put on a ventilator. And they pumped them full all full of stuff while we were gone. And he hit one of the other text message he he said was, if you're not my advocate, I will die. So sad. So, Jake, let me bring you in here. You've done a lot, it seems, man. I mean, you've got a board game called Tribe that looks very impressive. You have a new Flat Earth documentary that just came out, too. We might get into that. But you used to work a lot with Rob. What sticks out to you as some of the most egregious aspects of Rob's hospital experience? Well, I think they definitely were trying to make an example of him, I think, because of his relationship with the Flat Earth community. The Flat Earth community, which was recorded in my not new documentary, but a re-release of a very old Flat Earth documentary that was actually featured at the last Flat Earth International Conference in 2019. The whole concept of what they were doing back then, censoring Flat Earth, which was causing people to kind of put blinders on and accept certain propositions from men in white lab coats that they were kind of asking people to not vet for themselves. It set a precedence back then, which is interesting that Rob was so connected with that movement. And then in 2020, when a different type of men in white lab coats started pushing kind of, you know, against our bodily autonomy, really, it makes sense that they tried to make an example out of the guy who was creating the skeptic in the back of the room back in 2016, 2017. It's, you know, really sad what happened. You know, I worked with Rob for many years and had many, many big plans with him. He had a series he was going to create that was called Seed. Yeah. And it was going to be a science fiction animated series. He had already won many, many awards. And actually, after he passed away, he started to keep getting in the mail all these big awards for Seed. And, you know, there was so many elements of why I think they wanted to silence his voice. But more than anything, I think it's just that cultural shift that happened in 2020 where it became like a self-righteous thing to push the agenda. And a lot of people kind of bit that that apple, so to speak. And and I think that culture kind of, you know, in the hospital, these doctors, I'm sure they knew about him online. You know, from the testimony, it seemed like some of the nurses were aware of his fame and his impact in kind of the conspiracy truth or world. Because Rob wasn't just prolific in terms of talking on the cosmological question and, you know, debunking NASA and stuff. He was he goes way back to 2012 and the Bible Prophecy Club. He did a speech where he predicted that V.A.C.C.I.N.E.S. were going to be used in a type of Mark of the Beast. And he did it years and years ago. And so, you know, through the trenches, he was, you know, trumpeting that something fishy was happening. It was actually his biggest area of research, COVID-19 and the pandemic. Whenever we looked at his computer after he passed away. Yeah, that was my job. Saving all those files, man. All of the tabs were like this rabbit hole and that rabbit hole. Man, he was putting a lot of pieces together. And yeah, I don't know. I know I kind of rambled there for a little bit. But, you know, he just had such a big impact on my life, you know, my trajectory. I was going to, you know, go down and work with him on seed. He was really just starting to get the ball going whenever that fell through, you know, after he passed away. I didn't know really what to do. But more than anything, I wanted to support my friend's family. I was close with Rob. But after Rob passed away, I went to help Sheila and Jeremiah. Try to, you know, pick up the pieces and promote Sheila's book because they had really done something blatantly evil. And I do believe that Sheila has one of the strongest documented cases of the pandemic, you know, death camps that happened in the hospital. And so it was a good cause. So I jumped alongside to support him. And then naturally, Jeremiah and I, we started doing our show, Skiba News Nation, to try to, you know, push it out there. And that's kind of how our relationship formed after Rob passed away. Yes. And I did pick up the book. It is 400 plus pages. It does go step by step. I mean, I think she breaks it down day by day over these 40 days. And the conversations with the doctors and the crazy stuff like, you know, resonated with me having lost my dad because there was a lot of stuff where they come in high and mighty. They gloss over a bunch of stuff they know you don't understand terms that they know you don't know. And then if you don't ask, okay, well, what are the side effects of that? That thing you just said, are there side effects? Are there potential side effects? Oh, yeah. A laundry list of them. Okay. Well, you were not going to say that until I asked. You know, and my mom was not equipped to really be the person in the room. And I have two young kids. And so a lot of stuff, you know, similar things happen. There's a lot of parallels to the story. But some of the conversations that your mom was having with doctors, like they're so arrogant, brutal. I mean, this is a person who's experiencing a tragedy and you got to be patient with them. And you also have to let them decide what's going to be happening instead of telling them and shutting down any questions about this or that. So, yeah, pretty brutal. I wanted to read this quote from Jeremiah's book, Never Got to Say Goodbye. You write, We come into the world vulnerable and we leave vulnerable. We're naked, limp, and dependent. We're at the mercy of doctors, nurses, and sometimes deadly hospital protocols. The hospital did this to my dad. They locked our family out of the hospital with no visitation rights for 21 days from the day of his admission. They said it was their policy. He was left with no advocate, no human touch, no loving hands to feed him, and no encouraging words of hope. This type of treatment is the crime of the century and it doesn't make sense. The casket doesn't make sense. This life doesn't make sense. Very sad. And I also wanted to throw this in from your mom. So it might take me a second to pull up. Well, I will say every conversation in this book while you're pulling it up was recorded audio. She recorded every phone call. I told her, Mom, if they're not going to let you in, you need to record every single phone call just in case. And she said, OK. So she did. She recorded every single phone call. So all the things that you're reading were we put in a program to where it broke it down. I think it's called Otter AI, I think, is the name of the platform. Oh, yeah. OK. Yeah. Transcription software, AI software. I know it. I tried to use it for my show. But, yeah, lots of dialogue, all recorded. And, you know, you can really walk down one isolated case of a thing that happened to over a million people, perhaps. Definitely hundreds of thousands. So, yes, let's listen to this. This is your mom at a podium, at a presentation, talking about her book and how angry she was about all this. The government incentivized protocol designed to kill. He went to take on the world. And I always traveled with him. But he told me this time that he didn't want me to go. And when he came back, he was fine. He started coughing. I called him and they said, take him to the ER. And we were talking and we were texting. And my phone was ringing. It was Rob. It wasn't Rob. It was a doctor. And he was yelling at me. My husband needed to be put on a ventilator. Every single story is the same. Who wrote the script? It was definitely murder. My book has laws that they broke, how much oxygen they were giving him, way more than he needed, damage they did to him. 1.2 million Americans died the same way. So he's the face of many. I am the persistent widow. I'm going to keep on until I get answers. Consent forms were not signed. I need to hear my husband's voice saying yes. He told me, trying everything they can to get me to get on a ventilator. I'm dead if I do. I talked to him that morning. He had told me to come get him. I would have busted the door down. There are more of us than there are of them. And that's why the book is important, because I need you. We need to get this message out. Yeah. So obviously, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. And she was very upset. And I really do believe that if you look at a lot of cases throughout the conspiratorial history and you find the people that they want to shut down the most, it's people who are believing in an idea bigger than themselves because they've had a personal connection and a personal loss. And they're not going to go away. Obviously, your mom has passed. What happened there? So my mom, I think the actually this whole thing had a lot to do with her, her passing, but she was diagnosed with cancer. I feel like it was like almost right after this book came out. But she didn't want to tell anybody. And I respected that. Norm Macdonald did the same thing. One of my favorite, favorite comedians. And I was like, that's kind of cool. So you'll get over this. Nobody will ever know. And, you know, that that wasn't the case. She passed 12 12 24, which I think is almost beautiful because my parents were always into numbers like four, four, four was was my dad's number. 12 12 12 12 plus 12 is 24. And I always just, you know, that was my first sign that, hey, maybe maybe there is something to this faith thing. Maybe I shouldn't lose my faith. And then my whole butterfly story where I she was sitting down with me and I was like, so like we're just we would always joke around and we were we were silly. But I was like, if I ever come back, I'm going to come back as a skunk so I can spray. She said, if I ever come back, I'm being serious. I will come back as a butterfly. But that's how you know that I'm OK. I said, OK, whatever. Blew it off. She didn't like butterflies. I mean, she I mean, she didn't hate butterflies, but that wasn't like her thing. So in December, when we were right next to her casket, there was a bunch of flowers. Just so happened. A butterfly of nowhere comes lands right on. We have video of it lands right on the flowers in December in Texas and Dallas, Texas. That is next to impossible. Last time that happened was like early 1900s. I don't know where that butterfly came from. I don't know. I don't know. It's weird. It's crazy. But I believe that, you know, signs come from somewhere. And that that gave me my faith back. And I appreciate my mom for that. And, you know, she put put her whole life and soul and everything she had in this book. And, you know, I was just so glad. And I told you off camera that when this book came out, Anthony Fauci had just put out his autobiography and she bumped him off the number one spot in the category that it was in. And that was the coolest middle finger FU that I have ever seen. And that is so like her, you know, like 5000 pages of medical. My dad's medical records in here. And there's some crazy conspiracy people that are I think they're psyops, but they still think he's alive. And I'm like, man, I wish he was still alive. That'd be awesome. I mean, I want to go see him, but I know that he's dead. I saw him dead. Yeah, I saw a guy online who very disrespectfully thinks that your mom is playing the same role as the actress who plays Sarah Palin, as the actress who plays another political figure. And that stuff, I don't know. It's always a little silly to me just based off a picture that you think that one person is playing the part of like six different people on the world stage. Where would you have the time? Like, where would you get the time? It's like I'm looking for my devil right now. OK, guys, let's add fuel to the fire. Well, if you can't prove to me your mom and Sarah Palin have ever been on the stage together, then I just don't know. It's a it's an open question. But I am curious about some of the things that she said in that video. We talked about some. But what was that thing she mentioned about the amount of oxygen they were giving him? Is this something that's a big red flag? I mean, what happened there? They blasted his lungs full of oxygen. They shredded his lungs like we had. So the hospital, of course, is not going to do an autopsy on a body that they that they obviously killed. So I told my mom because I I'm a big true crime fan. I like to watch it just to see where the investigators go and stuff like that. They always do autopsies if something is suspicious. So I said, Mom, we have to get an independent autopsy. We have to to know what killed my dad, what killed him. Because all these hit pieces, all these if you look up his name, it's all anti what blanker. I'm censoring myself. No, you can say it. Anti-vax. Anti-B word dies of C-O-V-I-D. Yeah, we have to self-censor on our own YouTube. Oh, I get it. We have to know. We have to know. And I knew that she had to know. And so we did no covered and there was his lungs were so blown out. There was no way he could have left that hospital. And there were also other things in the system that we had no idea about that. I'm sure in this book, I can't think of off the top of my head, but it's just so crazy to me that this was allowed to happen, especially in a state like Texas, like Texas is supposed to be guns a blazing. Like we're always ahead of the curve, but we're really not. Doctors are ahead of the curve. You can't sue them. They have blanket immunity over everything that they do. Emergency use. Yeah. And no, no lawyer is balls. No lawyer had the balls to go up against the hospital, had the balls to go up against the hospital because. Excuse my French, they're pussies, in my opinion. That's just my opinion. Allegedly. Yeah, I totally understand. And so, Jake, let me ask you about the media coverage, this thing we've been talking about, this anti-vax flat earther dies of COVID. This was plastered everywhere. I have some examples. AOL.com. Flat earth theorist, anti-vaxer, Rob Schieber dies of COVID. The Daily Beast. Anti-vax, flat earth preacher dies of COVID-19. COVIDiot. Which, you know, on Reddit, they have taken a lot of subreddits down because they're hate speech or this or that. You know, that's always the code word, right? Hate speech or disparaging a group or something. Well, they still allow this subreddit called COVIDiot where they just laugh about people who died of COVID or who didn't want to get the shot. And there, flat earth preacher dead at 52 from COVID. That's another point is he was 52. He was a war veteran. He was in good shape. He was not obese. You know, I just, knowing what we know about COVID, this does not seem like a person who would have a problem with it. His death was used to mock all of us, whether we come from a Christian perspective or not, whether we're a flat earther or not. Even if we just want medical autonomy at a base level, his death was used to mock us. And I'll spare everyone the comments I saw looking into this, but a lot of heartless, smug, condescending stuff that you'd expect. Zero compassion, no humility or grace for a family who lost a father, no matter what his beliefs were. He never hurt anyone. He was just curious about the damn shape of the earth and how we all got here. But Jake, what would you say about this aspect? It has to be very frustrating to deal with not only mourning, but at the same time, seeing this pop up everywhere. Yeah. You know who controls you by the WHO you can't criticize, right? Just naturally, our culture has been kind of primed to be divisive. I think that's why we have the right-left paradigm in government. That's why we have all the secularism and, you know, dividing different religions and there's sex here and there's denominations here. And I think whenever people find something to make fun at, they find their click. And so, you know, that's why, honestly, the Internet was so entertaining, you know, previously, because it was just this natural unfolding of our commentary on things. But then in recent years, they've started to kind of hew down on what we get to witness. And you can tell what agenda exists by what they allow to exist still, just like you were talking about, like, that's the only, you know, one of the few hate speech threads, supposedly, that's allowed to remain up, you know. But, you know, obviously, they were just trying to capitalize on the headline. Two things from the story that we can sum up that we know was blatant and done to many people and very wrong was without his consent, they were giving him remdesivir, which shut his body down. And without his consent, they cut off a literal do not intubate bracelet off of a man whose whole life represented the strong belief of, you know, he should have bodily autonomy over this, you know, system. Right. And he literally in 2012 was predicting that a vax would come as a form of the mark of the beast. So you think a guy like that would go in there wanting to fully, you know, go with whatever protocol? No, absolutely not. That's why he was in there and he was on lockdown for days and days. They were literally mentally, spiritually, physically wearing him down. And then ultimately, you know, there was multiple times we would get reports. They were trying to get him off the ventilator and they were like, oh, he's fighting the ventilator too much. Boost his morphine, you know. And so they were putting him back under and over and over and over and just as a friend, as he being like a mentor type figure in my life, you know, it was it was very, very hard, very difficult to kind of watch from afar because, you know, obviously, you know, Sheila's the only one that they're going to let in to the hospital. And and she did all she could. She really she really tried. And a lot of people have been so far on the conspiratorial side that they see a grieving widow and they're like, oh, this lady, you know, she didn't do all she could. Well, nobody could have prepared for the the mind control system that just got ramped up in 2020, 2021. When when when all the protocols, it's literally the flexing of the the muscle of like this control system, the medical tyranny that happened in the world. And and I think it's it's in a way it's beautiful because Rob, who is such an outspoken person for truth, for looking at that alternative perspective, conspiracies, you know, all the stuff that people generally, you know, don't talk about in polite company. Well, now that's the topic at the Thanksgiving dinner table. Right. Because of guys like Rob, who, you know, were vocally calling out the system and they were he was one of the few guys, you know, back back in the early days of, you know, truth or Internet that was doing very well presented research, you know, calling out 9-11, calling out, you know, some of the discrepancies with religion. You know, I know, you know, sometimes it's hard to listen to people you think are outright crazy. But if you do a little bit of investigation, you'll find that a lot of Rob's beliefs, not only in religion and and about cosmology, were were based on a very, very rational, empirical research style, which based most of what he believed off of time reading and studying what, you know, scholarly level people are presenting and saying about these conspiracies that everybody wants to write you off on. But the truth is, is, you know, he was, you know, taken out, I believe, to make an example of and and because he was taken out, it really it did make him a martyr of what the system did in 2021. Every fake news article that has come out will be receiving a cease and desist letter that they need to apologize and correct the record or we will take legal action. And I'm very serious about it. Like, it's just wrong that they can they can just tarnish somebody's complete legacy and just make them look as bad as possible, even though he didn't die of COVID. So you can't say anti-vaxxer dies of COVID, right? You can't say that if they didn't die of COVID. That's a factual error. Right. So they need to right their wrongs or they will be sued. And I think there's a pretty good case there. And I feel like lawyers would probably go after the Daily Beast and people like that. It's in their name, Daily Beast. We saw a lot of that happen. We saw people in car accidents go into the hospital. They have to get tested. They have tested positive for COVID. They have internal bleeding from the car accident. They die, died of COVID. We know that they were financially incentivized to total up the numbers, you know, boost those numbers, boost the people on ventilators, request more ventilators. You get more funding. It was a big scam. I just don't know. The audience is aware, but I just don't know if it's ever been connected so personally to someone, especially in our community. You know, I don't think you should ever reduce a person, the complexities of a person down to one or two labels. So, you know, that's frustrating to see. I lost my dad about a year and a half ago. I won't go too hard into it, but he went into the hospital with dizziness, with vertigo, and they scanned him. He had tumors in his brain, so he's got brain cancer. Okay. He left the hospital like five days later in excruciating pain because something they gave him tore a hole in his gut. He didn't go into the hospital in pain. He didn't go into the hospital with a gut problem. He drove himself there that morning after doing, you know, daily, the daily pushups and eating breakfast. He's just like, I'm dizzy. I got to solve this problem. But he came out with a much bigger problem, died in bed in a stupor of drugs from fentanyl to whatever the hell else we were giving him administered by my mom and me. That would not be considered medical malpractice on paper, and I don't know that there was anything that was going to fix the situation, but it definitely was objectively worse after the treatment from the hospital. So I'm just using that as an example to say, like, medical malpractice on paper is the third leading cause of death in America on paper, and that's malpractice. How many people die from them doing things, quote unquote, the right way, and then how many treatments just make a situation worse when, you know, everyone dies? I'm not saying people aren't going to die. My dad was 72, but his death journey was definitely made so much more painful. You know, he never wanted to be on fentanyl. I know that. So it's just it's sad that, you know, we both are in a situation where our dads were aware of how sick hospitals can be, and yet sometimes there's just nowhere else you can go, and you get sucked into the system despite everything you know about it. So it is sad, but let's also move on to some other stuff, because I want to talk to you guys about your own work. Tell people a little bit about Skiba News Nation. What are some of the things you've been covering lately? I see you guys pull up videos and comment on what's in the news and how it relates to your overall worldview. What sticks out to you recently that you've been getting into? Well, I can tell you how it started and what we've been doing recently. So after my dad died, my mom was heartbroken, and she was like, what do we do with this legacy? Like, what do we do from here? And I said, I was a traveling musician. I was like, Mom, just let me do it. Let me and Jake do it. Like, we'll do something. So we created a YouTube channel, and the beautiful thing is we are reaching the generation that my dad always wanted to reach, which is our generation. And that was beautiful to me, and they're finding his work through that. But as of lately, or how the show goes is Jake will cover the current news. He's an awesome current news man. And so he pulls up the coolest current news that the mainstream media won't talk about. And then my producer, who is my grandfather, Opa, he does like a funny segment to kind of bring things back to Earth. And then I do History's Mysteries, which is inspired by Unsolved Mysteries, the good one, not the reboot. But where I talk about things in the past that don't make sense, it's kind of fun going down the rabbit holes of, you know, things that seem to be repeating themselves, you know, in history. And then we end with some, I call it, please excuse my sense of humor, because I have a very, very dark sense of humor. I don't know where that comes from, but a lot of people seem to like it, so I guess I'll keep it. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot that Jake would be better at what sticks out to him now. I mean, like, what is the biggest story that we've covered? We've covered so many big stories as of recent. Oh, man. So we have, over the years, done some really interesting coverage of Mount Carmel and Waco. Oh, yeah. And that has directly related to some of our conversations with other authors, like Tom O'Neill, who wrote Chaos. Yeah, I heard about that. For people who don't know, Chaos is the new book that is, you know, got a lot of buzz behind it about Manson being connected with CIA mind control programs, I believe. And he's awesome. He's a good dude. He's writing a second book now. That's why he didn't come to Truth or Con this year is what he said. Yeah, let me step in here, Jake. So you mentioned to me something pretty juicy that I got to ask you guys about. Jake said that Jeremiah has a fairly close relationship with Charles Pace, who is the current owner of the Mount Carmel Center, the famous location of the Waco Massacre, where after a 51-day standoff with U.S. federal agents, 82 Branch Davidians, including 28 children, and four ATF agents, died, many from a suspicious fire that was basically the end of the whole standoff and everything. I'm sure there's stuff to say about that. But Charles Pace, the current owner of the complex and head of the current church, he apparently told Jeremiah some, quote, about intriguing connections involving musical influencers, MKUltra, and more. Pastor Pace was an interesting guy. I met him, me and my girlfriend at the time. I don't think we were married at the time, but my wife now, I guess I should say. We were in Austin, which is not too far. Halfway from Dallas to Austin is Waco. So, I was like, you know, we have 10,000 subscribers. What's the harm in calling to see if we can do an interview? So, yeah, so we decided to do it, and it's at Waco. Waco is where the Davidians were set themselves on fire, so they say. So, says Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer back then in 1994. It happened in 1993. So, it was the year before I was born. But anyways, I was coming back from Austin, and we stopped, and we were like, oh my gosh, the Branch Davidians are calling us. So, we went, and we stopped, and we talked with them. And he knew who my dad was. And he was like, oh, do you know Robert Skiba? I said, that's my dad. He's like, it's so sad what happened to him. And we just had a great interview, and he invited us to be the only media allowed on Mount Carmel property on the 30th anniversary, which was so cool that he would even do something like that. But he's unable to talk now because of the stroke, unfortunately. But, yeah, there's a lot of dark stuff that he has found in his research about Waco and where it all comes from. And, you know, David Koresh was actually a really good musician. He brought up music. He was a surprisingly good musician. I mean, Jake served the music, and he thought it was pretty good. What did he mention? So, just this thing about musical influencers and MKUltra. What's this connection? It's really fascinating, and that's why I brought up Chaos and Tom O'Neill, because he had done so much work with another very famous musician who was involved with, you know, a supposed cult, right? But I think what's interesting is during the cultural revolution of the 70s, we realized as a Western culture that music is powerful. And it was music and the folk kind of uprising that allowed people to speak their mind out against Vietnam and all the different corporatized government plans that were rolling out in the world. And I think things like Mount Carmel, you know, the stories like with what happened with the Branch Davidians, they were made an example because the powerful tool of music and its influence on mankind, you know, is something very powerful, right? Like, I mean, just how music can lead people and change hearts and minds. Everybody kind of, you know, it's a proven topic, right? And I think whenever you look at things like Mount Carmel, what happened, well, you have an obvious overreach of government, you know, intruding into that society. They had some very interesting beliefs. Charles Pace, the way he comes into the story is he was a previous member of the Branch Davidian Church before the siege at Mount Carmel actually happened. And so he rebuked David Koresh to his face for over-interpreting himself into the scripture. And he left the community six months, allegedly, before the siege at Mount Carmel happened. And everybody who was at Mount Carmel had kind of like, you know, professed to fully believe in David Koresh's full interpretation of his prophetic role in the scriptures and his viewpoints on, you know, whatever they wanted to do with their little society they were building. But Pace comes in because he has this really interesting perspective on, like, why they came to take out Mount Carmel. And he's given us numerous books and has a whole presentation. But there's kind of an ought between him and the group of survivors from Mount Carmel. So, like, as people trying to research this and cover the topic, we're trying to be well-rounded and all the people we're interviewing while we went down there. And, yeah, man, I think that's why we have things like the MKUltra tie to music and musical influencers and Manson being kind of the scapegoat to set a legal precedence that somebody through music or through whatever ideological influence can be targeted in a legal case for conspiracy to murder, even though he wasn't directly involved in that case. And I know I'm jumping to Manson, but you can see how because Manson set a precedence later on in the 90s with Mount Carmel, they already had this ought in this kind of the, you know, they're already strapped up against musical influencers and musical religious communities, just like Manson's community. So that's the connection there. Sure. I don't know if a lot of people know that Manson was a musician. But, yeah, of course, that's a big part of his story. I want to know a little bit more about Pace's perspective on why they went in. So even by mainstream standards, the Waco situation, along with, I think, Ruby Ridge is the other one they consider the biggest fuck-ups in law enforcement history, even like in a mainstream way. You know, just principles of de-escalation and all these things that they're supposed to follow. They didn't. And my understanding is that I watched, I think, the big podcast on this, like this eight-hour thing. But even in there, they kind of say that somehow the people inside were convinced to alter their weapons. I think they were convinced to saw off their shotgun barrels or something to that degree. And then that is when law enforcement was like, OK, those are illegal guns. They weren't illegal. You altered them. Now they're illegal. Now we're going in. And now the standoff starts. Now, if Koresh was fucking the kids, you got to go in there. You know, you got it. You can't let that happen. If he's just fucking the wives. Well, you know, adults can make their own decisions. And if you get brainwashed into letting this messiah figure bang your wife, I guess that's your problem. That's no one else. It's not the government's business. Was he messing with the kids? And what's the real reason Pace says that they went in? It's really a long story. And he wrote this book about it. Waco, A New Revelation for the Children's Sake. Why the Deep State Massacred David Koresh. And so we've interviewed a child survivor that actually was there during all of this. And what he has to say, I mean, he wasn't fucking the kids or anything like that. But David Koresh was actually a friendly guy. And the whole gun thing happened because when they moved on to that property, this is what Pastor Pace says, that there were guns that they were that there were guns there. And he was trying to melt them down at first. And then he was trying to sell them at gun shows. But that had nothing to do with why they broke in. Now, Pace believes the reason why they even broke in at all was because right next door is a boy's home where they would bring in young boys. Okay. And Koresh was trying to expose that. Oh, okay. That the Bushes had a very, there's actually footage of George W. Bush taking Putin to this boy's ranch that is right next door to Waco. And I'll send you my documentary thing that I, I was, I tried to prove everything he said wrong because, I mean, I don't want to put anything out to our audience where they see it. And they're like, oh, well, that didn't really happen. And I, I tried, I tried to prove the guy wrong. Do you recall the name of this ranch? Here, let me do a quick Google search. It's a boy, something boys ranch, Waco boys. I do see a headline from the Business Insider. Putin once spoke with George W. Bush at a rural Texas high school and answered questions about human rights. They were in a rural Texas town of 700 people. So why would you bring Vladimir Putin to a rural? And Texas is so big. It's so hard to get around. Check out our mind control camp, Putin. Set it up, you know, in Siberia for your own, you know, mind control program. So it says two months after September 11th, you know, you think he'd have bigger priorities. He brought Putin to this rural Texas town of 700 people where Bush owns the nearby Prairie Chapel ranch. The two leaders spoke at the high school, according to NPR. So I don't know if you're specifically talking about the Prairie Chapel ranch. I don't believe that's what it's called. But I know that they have property close to it and they all have ties to the ranch. Every piece of property over there is like owned and like by somebody by like a higher up. And they basically do Bohemian Grove kind of stuff at this ranch with boys, with young boys and specifically young boys. And this this book is actually I'm trying to find it because he's got to have it in here because I put it in my little mini documentary I put out on Vimeo. He's a big Trump fan, too. He mentioned something about some of the members of the community at the time were going in local businesses and working in and amongst the community. And some of the members of the Mount Carmel church had ended up working at one of these ranches nearby. And that's where they uncovered some type of deep, dark secret that revealed some type of government connection to that ranch. And and allegedly they had proof of, you know, what was going on in this nearby camp. And that was one of the underlying reasons that they were so aggressively coming in to the property and, you know, causing issues. So another fun thing is Clinton made a campaign stop there, a small town. Why would he stop there on his campaign trail with possibly another guy with the initials J.E.? I don't know. I'm just throwing things out there. I mean, is that Jeffrey Epstein? Oh, OK. Yeah, I sometimes it needs to be spelled out for me. Plus, you know, we're not just talking here. There's so many people listening. They're gonna be like, what? Yeah, you can say Epstein. You can say vaccine. I don't care if YouTube doesn't like it. I got my own thing going. So anyway, this this is really interesting. Prairie Chapel Ranch. So first off, I mean, you're saying Epstein. What were you saying there with Epstein that he actually went on the campaign trail there? I'm not saying that he did, but I'm saying Clinton has so many ties to Epstein around the time. This was, I believe, his re-election campaign where he was flying on the plane. How many times? How many times did he fly on that plane? About a dozen or more. And that's on paper. About a dozen or more. So I would say they're pretty close friends. I mean, why go to a boy's ranch? Why go to a city where they have this boy's ranch? I mean, that's just kind of weird. Yeah. Angela Merkel has been there, too. She went there in 2007. I didn't really know about this, but the property was acquired by George W. Bush. It is an unincorporated MacLeland County, seven miles northwest of the Waco property. He spends his vacation time in the house and entertained visiting dignitaries from around the world. The ranch received its name from the Prairie Chapel School, which was built nearby in the land. The land was donated by mid-19th century German immigrant Heinrich Engelbrocht from Germany, who owned the land that now encompasses the Bush ranch. I just find that to be strange. You know, there's a lot of deep history, especially during the Nazi time with American Nazis, or we just say the American power apparatus that kind of got not just Project Paperclip, but before that, that was after the war. Even during it and before, you know, you got Brown Brothers Harriman, a lot of German companies that were big in the United States. I just find this interesting. So, yeah, the ranch is not only seven miles from Waco, but it might also be near this boy's ranch. And this is an angle I haven't heard before, that this guy, you know, when you're going to accuse, when you're going to expose something, sometimes you just get accused of being someone who's doing that very same thing. And people are already primed to think, well, cult, religious cults, orgies, child abuse. I mean, it's all there. So people are primed to accept that story. I don't know if that story is true or not, but it is interesting that would, you know, what motivates the government to get involved is possibly exposing something that they don't want out there. Now, I did find the photo that I used in it and that this was what he was talking about. It's called the MCH Boys Ranch. And I just found an article on it and it shows the gate of it. And that was the one that that Pace said was the correct one. And it says, Boys MCH Ranch. I don't know. I just think it's all interesting. The fact that that all these people seem to go there. And he even told me a story. It's been such a while, such a long time since I've actually like rewatched it and seen what he had to say. But he said something to the effect of he knew somebody that that was a caterer, right? A caterer. And even the next door neighbor could tell the story like he could back him up on the story that catered to this thing. And they're doing all kinds of, in his words, homosexual, pedophilic stuff with these boys. The caterer said, I'm not going to cater for this event. So these are Pace's words, okay? So please, if this, if something happened, it's, these are all what Pace said. Allegedly, allegedly, this is hearsay. Allegedly, allegedly, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's what he says, that the caterer said no. And so they had to find a new caterer. But the caterer that originally went said, I can't be a part of this. I can't be, I don't, I don't even want to be here. He got some dark energy and really pulled himself out of the whole Waco thing, like completely gone, like never talked about it again, brought it up with Pace. And he, I guess he thought it had a lot to do with, with, you know, the story of Waco. Fun fact, did you know, in some of the news footage, Timothy McVeigh is seen right before they set it on fire, selling bumper stickers outside of the Branch Davidian compound. Hmm. And that's why he blew up, allegedly, the Oklahoma City on the same date a year later, or one or two years later, he blew up the, uh, Oklahoma, he did the Oklahoma City bombing. So he was very influenced by why, the, the reason why the government did this is why he did that to the government. It is how his brain worked, allegedly. Hmm. Um, so when you said MCH, I looked that up and it comes up with an address, 1111 Herring Avenue in Waco, Texas, the Methodist children's home. Is that what that sounds, that sounds MCH stands for? That's, that's how we don't know much about this, but it is a mere 4.6 miles from the Mount Carmel Waco location. So obviously these things are all very close, close in a state that is very spread out. You know, I've had the unfortunate pleasure of driving across Texas several times. How dare you? So let's stick the landing on this Waco discussion with the fire. It's the big contentious thing that killed most of the people involved. The government says they have audio recordings of, uh, Koresh inside saying like, let's set everyone on fire. The alternative take I've heard is that they put a certain gas in there that was very flammable. And I believe they had to use candles just to see in the situation they were in, if the power was cut and that, that is why there was a fire that would kill everyone. What, what's the take that you have heard? I mean, what I know is that they didn't set fire themselves. I, I own, uh, so by befriending pace and the people on the property, they sent me one of the largest pieces of what remains of Waco. And it's a part of the school glass. I was going to go get it and show you, but you can see charred remains on there. And there's no way that, that all those people just set themselves ablaze. I mean, your body wouldn't allow that, you know, like you would run like if you were on fire. I mean, look at Richard Pryor. He set himself on fire allegedly and well, he did. And then he started running to try to put the fire out. I mean, that's just what your body does. So why would they do that? And why on the ATF, you know, recordings, do they say, okay, we're going in, we're taking it down. You know, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And maybe Jake, you did that part of the documentary on, on my documentary about the fire part. I think you're pretty good at explaining it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just the excuse that the government was giving for an accident that happened. They were there. I think they might have been trying to peaceably cause the people to exit the building and they just instead accidentally set them all on fire. And unfortunately, that's why a lot of those people lost their lives is, you know, they got trapped in that building and I don't think they did it to themselves. I think it's interesting. You know, we brought up the Methodist boys home and then we're talking about this group, which is also another religious group. And it's like, you know, the church system, the religious system hides a lot of things. Right. And so the guys of certain brands and denominations can be where you find a lot of, you know, the trafficking and evil things of the world. And so it's interesting that, you know, it's like, it's like the rule book for radicals thing where you shout, you know, I know I am, but what are you, you know, louder at the other person when it's actually, you're the guilty party. And, um, and I wonder if it's kind of like that. It was like down at the MCH, they're, they're really doing some crazy stuff. And the people down at Waco are like, Hey y'all down at the MCH, they're, they're, they're doing some freaky stuff. And then the MCH, uh, you know, calls big daddy up and sends the bulldogs down and they start shouting at the top of their lungs. Oh, Colt, uh, oh, you, you know, this guy's got multiple, you know, wives or whatever. And then what it does is it justifies it in the eyes of the American public for the extreme action that's taken. And so everything we see from the official narrative is like this backpedaling, trying to prove that they deserved it. They were the Colt, they were the Jonestown, they were the, you know, the Manson family. And, uh, that's why, you know, it all full circle, you know, landing, like you said, uh, it goes back to that precedence they set back with, uh, the Manson murders and, and him. Well, what's kind of funny is when we interviewed Scott Mabb, who was a child survivor who actually got out early, I asked him one time, cause I was thinking about this. I was like, we can make it. He watched his dad being shot and murdered in front of him. And I did the same thing, but in, but for recent times, and I said, Hey man, this is kind of an idea that I have. Would you be down to do this? Like a documentary about you talking about your dad. And it was his stepdad. He loved him like his own dad, just like me and watched him be murdered. I didn't watch it, but I was hearing everything that was going on. He was like, yes, I would definitely do that anytime, any place, anytime, any day. And so we still haven't done that cause we've been so busy lately, but I would still love to do that with him because I think it tells a story of how, you know, the government is definitely not on our side. And anybody who thinks that they are, it needs a wake up call. And, you know, I think it's very important for people to know that, you know, they were shooting people. They were shooting dogs. They were shooting all kinds of things. It wasn't just a fire. I mean, them just going in guns a blazing. That's an issue. Some, and then David Koresh even said, if you come knocking on my door, I have a gun. Like, of course I do. I have one sitting right next to me. I live in Texas. That's what we do here. You know, if I don't know who you are, if you can't make your presence known, then what am I, your threat to me and my family, you know? Right. And the whole gun control thing, you know, for the first time in my life, I live in a pretty rural area and we've already had six foot alligators cross the property. Like there's coyotes out here. There's bobcats out here going after the chickens, trying to get in that cage. Like people who don't live rural don't understand, like you can't really take guns away. They're a tool that you kind of need in certain situations. That's why it's so crazy. It goes on in Canada where they got the bears and the cougars and the wolves. It's like people who have a couple of acres of land in rural Canada, they can't just use a baseball bat. Like it's not even about fighting the government necessarily. It's just about, it's a basic tool for rural life. So yes, I agree with all that stuff. Let's fold in Jake's new flat earth documentary here. I am just kind of curious what your documentary might add to the discussion. Why did you put out this film? What is your film ad that a lot of previous flat earth films seem to have missed? Well, for one, it's an OG flat earth film that came out in 2019. I actually made it at the same time that Behind the Curve, the famous Netflix documentary was also filming at the same events that I was at. So I was there in 2017 at the rise of the flat earth movement. And I think to encapsulate it, it's not really a flat earth documentary in and of itself. It's more presented from that seeker's perspective of giving a flat earth community the opportunity to explain all the underlying conspiracies that cumulatively add up to flat earth. I feel pretty confident saying I was one of the only full length documentaries made back in 2019, like during the rise of this whole movement before, you know, other more pressing conspiracies came onto the radar that actually gave it a like a pro spin, like gave it a, hey, I'm not telling you the earth is flat, but I'm definitely going to let them speak their piece. And and so if you guys are interested in like going back and watching these genuine moments of how that community formed, the interesting, beautiful relationships that were made at all these conferences where people came with a variety of beliefs. And I like to say that the flat earth movement was this like flicker in the dark of deception in the world, right? Well, yes, I know it's a cognitive dissonant turn where the word flat earth already you're like, but if you love truth enough to have been willing to, you know, notice that flicker of light in the dark and to go and investigate it, you'll find that the flat earth topic is less of a conspiracy about what the earth is and more of a conspiracy about what the earth isn't. And so it's a contrarian perspective where it debunks the things that we've been taught from government agencies like NASA and and it kind of dismantles what we are told about the realm we live in. And then it opens up the possibilities for, you know, people can come up with theories on where we do live. And, you know, one of the beautiful elements of the flat earth movement was, you know, I believe it was the ugly clam, right? It was this, you know, thing that you really had to be a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist to go and, you know, investigate this, right? But if you did, if you gave it the time of the day of day to just listen to some of these empirical arguments and perspectives of why we don't trust the system we live in, you know, you'd come away with the pearl that's inside, right? Which is a love for the truth. And I think boiling it down, that's how I would sum up what the documentary is about is records the end of the age of the internet that allowed flat earth to be possible. Uh, which so it shows that the precedence of censorship, which began first with flat earth more than any other topic, literally it's flat earth that caused YouTube to start censoring videos, putting that little disclaimer, it was purposely brought up in a congressional hearing so that they could, you know, crank down on these flat earthers. Well, I understand that term really bothers people, but even if you don't believe the earth is flat, I think a lot of people have more in common with supposed flat earthers, right? Then they realize. And that's because in 2017, the censorship that happened to flat earth, which is what I record in the documentary is the same type of censorship that happened in 2020, 2021 with the pandemic censorship and the crank down on channels that were speaking against the official narrative. And the men who were questioning back in 2017, like Rob Skiba standing in the back of room, looking at the men in the white lab coat saying, this is a picture of earth and it's, you know, um, and you know, those skeptics that were, you know, grown during that beautiful time period when I was making the film where the same skeptics in the back of the room in 2020, 2021 going, I don't buy it. You know, BS, I'm not, I'm not putting it in my body. And, and so, you know, not to mention, you know, the, the faith element of it is, you know, uh, there's a big portion of the flat earth community that as they come into a belief about, you know, the realm we live in being different than we have been taught in classrooms, it opens up the possibility of a greater power of, of God, right. And the, the love of, you know, a revival of faith that was started that little spark because of people coming, you know, from a, a skeptical scientific perspective, having their paradigm shifted when they realize, Oh wait, I can't really trust NASA. I can't trust this scientism that's being pushed as real science. Then it opens up the possibility for people who previously completely couldn't even imagine the possibility of a creator or God or whatever. And, you know, I, I know there's a variety of, uh, avenues that people would take, but you know, my, my, uh, background, I grew up in the Philippines. So technically I grew up on the other side of the ball. If the world is a spinning monkey ball, you know, hurling through space at, you know, millions of miles an hour, you know? And so my perspective is, is kind of from that religious background because I grew up as a missionary kid and I, uh, lived in the Philippines where there were many, many different denominations of Christianity and belief and, you know, full circle getting into the flat, flat earth movement. I found this, uh, this kind of fringe blend of faith in the scriptures, but not a dependence on the traditions and doctrines of men. It's kind of the whole paradigm that Rob brought in terms of his faith perspective. And I know you guys kind of want to hear from the other side, right? Coming from like a secular conspiracy, you know, background, but, um, it, it, it's a major element to, uh, Rob's whole pursuit of this topic, which is his faith in the scriptures, um, to reveal ancient truths. Right. And so throughout many different cultures, religious, you know, or not, uh, they, they have this narrative that the earth was flat under a dome, you know, this is something that, uh, no matter what culture you look into, you'll find that they all had this consistent belief. And, and so, you know, for Rob Skiba, for myself, for, for what we do, you know, we look at the, the, the biblical narrative, um, you know, as a, a, a more, uh, you know, focus point for, you know, you know, who is that creator? Right. Right. Right. And so that's, you know, at the end of the documentary, I have several people talk about how Christians today, look, if you disagree with the modern theory of evolution, if you disagree with certain dogmas in terms of the, uh, the scientism of the, the modern Western world, which there is an empirical kind of answers in Genesis style of looking at, you know, sedimentary layers, uh, carbon dating, there's a bunch of big questions. And so there's a lot of Christians that aren't flat earthers that'll look at flat earthers and be like, you're crazy. But the truth is, is you have more in common with flat earthers than you do with the modern Western scientific explanation of how we got here. Right. I think that's a totally fair point. I have tried to say that myself, like that we agree up to 90% of all the bullshit. Wouldn't you rather spend your time, have a beer with a guy who is aware of all those same manipulations and distrustful of authority in the same way. It's like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I'm not Christian, but when COVID happened, where could I look for anyone who made me feel not crazy is the churches who are like, no, we're not doing this. Well, guys, this has been very interesting. We went all over the map, but really the core of why I wanted to do this is Rob's story should be told. The record should be corrected. We need to get back to seeing each other just as people, not trying to let labels like anti-vaxxer and flat earth or even woke or whatever it is to find an entire complex person. It's gotten bad in all different categories and all different parts of the spectrum. So to me, this was important to do for that reason. But before I really cut you loose, give the people your links, the promo stuff, how they can follow you, all that material. You can find us, Skiba News Nation on YouTube, our website, SkibaNewsNation.com. We got some cool merch. It's not just cheesy Skiba News Nation merch, but I promise I designed it myself. But we're on every podcast platform. Yeah, just look up Skiba News Nation. Jake, is there any other stuff? Oh, Truth or Con too. We're doing Truth or Con 2026. We're already getting ready for it. If you want to stay updated and become a part of the biggest and the pinnacle of Truth or Conventions Conference, that kind of thing, go to Truth or Con.com and there's a place where you can click, you know, keep me updated and we will send you notifications and let you know when stuff is happening and the date that we finally decide. Can I ask you guys, what date do you want? So we're kind of waiting back on those numbers. Well, cheers to that. Yes. And thanks for taking the time. Hopefully you come, man. Hopefully we get you. We will see. We will see. I'll definitely consider it. But thank you for taking the time to be here today. Thanks for having me on Skiba News Nation and Jeremiah. My condolences for losing two parents in such a quick succession and for it all to be so wrapped into all this other stuff and have to deal with all the public commentary on it just adds insult to injury. I just let it roll on my back. Well, that's the only way you can be. Yeah. And I'm sorry about your dad, man. It's not easy to lose a parent. It's hard, but it's all about what you do with your anger. I believe in righteous anger. So I'm going to put it towards a cause that I agree with and that I want to put it towards and stay focused on that, man. Amen. Yeah. We'll just keep doing what we do. All right. Take care, guys. Appreciate you. Well, Merry Christmas, right? Higher side chatters. Keeping it light as always around here. I think the reasons I wanted to do this are pretty clear, despite our very different areas of interest. It's hard not to feel immense sympathy for Jeremiah just on a human level. Jake, too. He and Rob were very close. To say anti-vax flat earther dies of COVID, we know that game. It's just like calling someone an anti-Semite for having legit concerns about Israel's behavior or why so many politicians have dual citizenship or where our money is going. It's a nuance killer, and it keeps people from learning more about a situation because, oh, that guy doesn't matter. He was an anti-vaxer. He was a flat earther. He had this one outside-the-box position. Well, not just one, but you know what I'm saying. And Sheila's book is insanely detailed. She goes day by day and transcribes correspondence with not only Rob, but also the doctors as well. And I would say it was a bit cathartic reading through it myself with my own experience because these doctors talk with such arrogance, and they know they're using terms and naming drugs that you have no idea about, and if you even ask, what's that? They act annoyed that you would even speak up. They got their rounds to make. What are you doing wasting my time asking what I'm putting in your dad? Shut up. Several times, I asked if this or that had side effects, or I asked if something could be spelled out so I could look it up, and there was always an eye roll and a smug tone as if I was bothering them or as if, like, it was inappropriate and annoying to want to know what side effects are for something. Whatever. You know, they gatekeep the doctors, too, if you haven't been through this in a while. So you only really see the nurses who don't know anything, and then you get to see an educated doctor making the real decisions, like, once every three or four days for maybe 10, 15 minutes. And they have a jokey attitude. They've really got their routine down because they just go through these, like, quick 10-minute meetings, and it's just really sad and pathetic. And that doesn't even count weekends, either. These are just work days. So you might see the guy on Thursday and then again on Tuesday or Wednesday of the following week. It's just a mess. Most of us probably deal with it so rarely that it's easy to forget how badly it needs to change until we're stuck in a crisis, then oftentimes in mourning, and then we just don't even want to think about the hospital hellhole anymore, and so it kind of perpetuates. Where I live in Tampa is pretty rural, and all around is booming with new construction, and I'm always crossing my fingers for a new farm-to-table restaurant or an organic grocery store or even just a quality school. Something of use. And I kid you not, half of the new things being built that take up a whole city block are just hospitals. If I took some pictures of the hospitals that are already up, you would be shocked at how huge and impressive they are architecturally. They look like amusement parks. And now three more are going up just between my house and getting to my mom's. And you know it's because they're just making so much money as mortality declines and life expectancy declines and malpractice remains the third leading cause of death. It ain't hurting business. And it's like when you go in for a routine oil change and they find 10 other things that you need. The hospital loads you up on tests and scans, et cetera, et cetera, and then tries to find some new drug that you might need and find a justification for it, never really offering you much choice. You see a person you love not really getting any better and just being stuck in this shitty room with nothing around. And then they say, whoops, we couldn't help them. Here's the bill. I wish you would have told me you couldn't help them on the first day and we would have got the hell out of here. But you know, then they build a new hundred million dollar hospital and the cycle continues. And like I said, quality nutrition options are nowhere to be found, only feeding the pipeline to the hospital that much faster. It's disgusting. And I wish there was a bit more of a united front and doing something about it. But what can you do except pump up the alternatives? You know, that's really the only thing you can do with your money and attention is try to create a market for the alternative that the mainstream loses access to. But my dad was drinking Essiac tea and he had Rick Simpson oil and he was looking at something called black salve, which I've learned more about after the fact. Sounds like it could be good for someone if they get it fast enough, I suppose. But there's just no professional clinic. There's nowhere where you can go in the alternative world and check progress or alter dosage, etc., So even if these alternatives work, you would think it's OK to say there's some guidance required. But no, we buy shit online and we hope it's authentic and we self-medicate. Because that alternative framework just isn't there. In Rob's case, he knew intubation was a bad idea, but they wore him down. They exhausted him. It is like being in prison. I think we all consider ourselves to be pretty resilient. But after a week of being trapped and sleep deprived and guarded from contact with your own loved ones, our will can be depleted a lot faster than you think when you're outside of the situation. That's just the reality. Try going 72 hours without sleep and see how resistant you are to anything. It's crazy how quickly we fall apart without sleep. So, you know, when you don't feel good and you're in a shitty hospital bed and they come in every three hours for tests and wake you up from a deep slumber and there's no relief, that is torture. Just to get a number on a screen. I don't know. Well, when I had talked to Jeremiah and Jake previously, they sounded like they actually were a little unsure how natural and organic Sheila's death was. I don't want to put words in their mouth or try to make it into something it's not because they didn't really say that today. But she was very dedicated to speaking out about this and then to just have her die so soon after is really sad. I mean, that's why I invited them on. I want Rob and Sheila's stories to be told. I don't want them to just fade away. And Rob's story is representative of thousands more, COVID or not. And also, I think it's important to consider things like German new medicine. The founder lost a son and then got testicular cancer and thought, hmm, maybe there's a relationship between emotional state and manifesting something like cancer. That could be part of Sheila's story. I don't know. So what can I say? This fell on the holidays. I didn't expect that. But it is a good reminder not to take for granted the time we have, even with those who frustrate us, yada, yada, yada. What are we often frustrated by? Differences of opinion on issues we can't change anyway. So much of it becomes hypothetical and arbitrary. If you don't have an enthusiasm for life, you got to go find that. Find more nuanced ways and more important ways to connect with the people that you maybe have to be around, whether you want to or not. Make the best of it. Don't spend all the good time you have paranoid and depressed and angry, again, about things you can't control that likely are not affecting you to the degree that they're taking up time in your mind, even though I just ran it about the hospital system. I really am not one to lecture or pontificate. But what really is there to do but try to be your best self and enjoy as much of the ride as you can and be proud of the person you lived as when it's over? So there it is. Rob and Sheila's stories are obviously the heart of this one. In the plus show, we did go much deeper into Jeremiah and Jake's work, a little bit about the flat earth, sure, and the final experiment and the interesting stuff about the JFK assassination that Jeremiah has been digging up and this other suspect, Jack Lawrence, that I never really hear much about, well, you can look that up and you actually find quite a few things. One thing ties into recent events because Rob Reiner made a 10-part JFK podcast series and apparently he goes into four main suspects, I believe, and one of them is Jack Lawrence. But we also talked about some really interesting stuff regarding the Manson situation because Jeremiah also has a friendship, maybe friendship's a bit of a strong term, but a line of communication with the current owner of the property where Waco went down. So we talked about that and the insights that he told Jeremiah about the real deal behind the Manson thing and a few other adjacent topics. I thought we filled it out with several important things. And again, that was all secondary to just trying to counterbalance the cold, heartless coverage of Rob's death, trying to make him look like an idiot who died because he wouldn't get the shot. Hmm. Unconscionable. Saying he died of COVID even, just again, when it looks like he died of COVID treatment. I just couldn't hear that and not want to cover it once to make sure that everybody who listens to me was aware of that and check Skiba News Nation. If you're interested in what they're doing or pick up Sheila's book, if you want all the gory details, I'm sure Jeremiah would benefit from that and higher side news. I'm getting more and more jazzed up for the new year. It's hard to keep my mouth shut really, but there will be an actual announcement in the feed right around the first of the year, but I'm really going to be changing up what THC is and what the monthly output is, but I'm just going to move on before I ramble way too much about that. I want to, you know, get my words right. When it comes to the review of the last episode, my interview with Donut, it's doing okay with a 4.5 right around the middle. Now I know those are from plus members who, you know, make those reviews. So they heard the second hour and the Chateau Mormont stuff and the tunnels in LA. That to me was some of the most interesting stuff that came out of that episode. But I actually think there's a lot to like really. And just kind of one thing not to like, but that's probably actually part of the course around here. Two hours is a lot of time to say everything right. Uh, I didn't realize his following was as large as it is either. I got a lot of people saying that this was their first THC interview. Great. I hope they dug it and check out the archives. And we also have a meetup calendar around here for the new people and those who just want a reminder or need one podcast can be very much a solo experience. Having these fringe interests can also be isolating. So we have an events calendar at hiresidemeetups.com where anyone can make a local event at a brewery or whatever you're into. And when I read these events out, it lets people know, Hey, look, there's an event near me. Maybe I'll go and check it out. And you make new friends. You expand your network and everybody wins. That does help me if I have the page pulled up in advance, but here's what's coming in January. So we got January 3rd, Gilbert, Arizona, Desert Monk's Brewing. Also January 3rd, Canaan, New Hampshire at Poor House Barbecue. January 10th, Raleigh, North Carolina, the Raleigh Brewing Company. January 12th, Rosedale, Albany, Auckland, New Zealand at Bar Savannah. And January 16th, Michigan City, Indiana at Burn M Brewing. Great. Love to see the calendar getting used. Love to see people expanding their network. And that's about it for me. Let Jeremiah know if you were impacted by this. I'm sure he could use an attaboy and use some THC holiday cheer. Thanks for sticking with me. Stay tuned for 2026. Your move. Big Pharma faithful, condescending COVID captured and mass media psyopceders. Your fucking move. Do you feel betrayed by the ones you're told to trust? Well, you know you don't get much help from the ones that beat you up. Like a dog that don't obey. We're just left to lick the wounds. They say that it will be okay. And the cycle continues. Cause we don't seem to care. The ones who come after circuses really is an awful trade. But what are you gonna do? Apathetic to the ill. So the cycle can pull the ones. Easier to believe the lie. Cause it's all about me. And the ones that come after can try to get themselves free. We never have the drive. We sometimes have the mindset right. Rarely tempted to thrive. Hard to truly go. So again, we pun. And the cycle continues. We don't even discuss. For the ones who come after. Cause no one did it.