Joe Rogan Experience #2455 - Donnell Rawlings

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. REALLY? Red meat? This is unfortunate. That's disgusting. >> In any [music] form? You know, like I have I know it's weird. If I eat a burger, it's different if I eat a steak. Steak is a problem? Yeah, I don't know if my digestive system just like you too old to [ __ ] uh How old are you? >> down. I'm 58. >> I I'm 58, too. I eat mostly meat. I don't think it's age. What is it then? Well, what are you eating it with? Uh Tito's. Are we rolling? Mhm. Tito's. Tito's vodka? Well, that can't be that, right? No. [laughter] Tito's I'm eating a steak and I wash it down >> eat a steak and Tito's? And I wash it down with Tito's and tonic cuz it it resembles H2O so much. Sometimes I get thrown off until I do it. What? Yeah, I think I'm better Tito's and tonic resembles water? The look of it. >> The look of it. >> It's clear. That's all that matters to you? Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I know at some point I need to change I need to change my life. I'm at the age now that it's like I look at certain food and I'm like, "Oh my god, it looks good, but you know you can't handle that." I think this is when I really really need to be in love because I need to be with somebody that understands when I go places and when I want to pig out, they got to be like, "He can't eat that." Uh right. >> Right. He needs a handler. He needs a female handler. A a female handler. They they call it geriatric like they This is what I hear. The [laughter] This is what the scripts are saying. Most men get to a age, it's a geriatric [ __ ] when you just smash all the women you want to do and everything. Now you're going to have to worry about somebody helping you with your pill diet, helping you with your dietary needs and everything. And they say that's a a of times when men fall in love when they need somebody to take them to the golden years. Oh, when it's when you're about to be out of here, you need somebody to say, "Don't do that. You got to mash this food up. You got to chop it up." But I'm having digestive issues sometimes. With steak, huh? With that's red meat, I want to say. And I'm I'm a fan of it. So, you eat if you eat like a bowl of pasta with the Tito's, no problem? That's not a problem. Interesting. But it's definitely red meat. Red meat I'm not sleeping >> to one of those doctors that checks people for allergies. Voodoo doctor? Yeah, you >> [laughter] >> I don't want one of them though. It sound like I had to date a Asian I mean I had to date a a Asian chick. They into voodoo really really big time. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. They stab you with pillows and [ __ ] You wouldn't know you have pain in your neck. >> [laughter] >> Is there any particular reason, Joe, and I haven't been here in a while. Is there any particular reason why I am doing your show during Black History Month? No, you asked to come on. >> [laughter] >> The but but You reached out to me. >> out to you. >> any You could have reached out to me in July, I would have said yes. You got an open invitation, you know that. I have an open invitation, but this is when I don't know you I said, "Can I come?" You said, "This is what you told me." You said, "I have a guest." And then you called back. I don't know if Jamie said, "You know what month this is." Right, [snorts] I don't know if he and you and you called me right back. >> somebody. I moved somebody for you cuz I knew you were coming here on a Monday. I had someone booked. >> Was it a Caucasian person? I don't know. I don't remember. >> Jamie? You know it was a white man or black man. >> No, you know what? Did I get Did I bump a white person for black? >> been Michael Jai White cuz he's here tomorrow. Yeah. So, it's probably Michael. I just probably moved him a day. But I appreciate you being accommodating cuz I felt like it was a time for me to come back. I haven't been here a while. >> You can come on anytime. I really appreciate that and I I hold that to be true. Come on. >> that's true. You know I love you. Yeah. I want some of that gum, too, man. I'm sorry. >> gum? Do we have any, Jamie? I have some, yeah. Yeah, that stuff's the [ __ ] >> I know. Well, whenever you say something is the [ __ ] it's the [ __ ] Yeah. >> Well, what can I do about my I can't do anything about my diet. Sorry. Whoops. I hit the mic. Um yeah, you can. You just uh you know, you should go to a doctor and find out if there's like there might be something particularly about you that red meat doesn't agree with you. But, it might just be what you're eating with the red meat more than the red meat itself. You know, that's what I would imagine. I would imagine it's not actually red meat. I would imagine it's what you're eating with it. Might be. And I'm going to check into it. Cuz as they say in the streets, I'm of that big age when you have to be considerate of a whole bunch of things. So, that's what I have to do. I have to do that. Do you exercise at all? A little bit. Usually doing sexual intercourse is when I get my [laughter] most of my cardio. Get your push-ups in. Yeah, and it's not as strong. Damn, man. You ever get I don't know if this apply to everybody. You get to a age where you start looking at your history and you like, damn, 2000 was my best years. Like right now, I'll just give up. You give up. I don't put no pressure in it. I give up. I start asking like what's your shoe size is or whatever. I'd rather go shopping than to really try to [laughter] pound somebody out for 3 hours. I'm at that age now where I have I call it um certain times. Like you don't get a work good work out. >> shouldn't give you that gum. It's going to >> That gum's going to be a real problem on the microphone. Is it Is it Okay. I'm sorry. >> People People going to get annoyed with you. All right. I don't know what to do. Just chew it a little and spit it out. Okay. You'll get the effects of it pretty quickly anyway. I'm at the age where my best work is like holidays. Holidays? >> Like I'm I'm a animal. >> Why don't you hire a trainer? You got some money. And what are the trainer going to do there? >> in shape. I think I need a therapist before I get a trainer. >> [laughter] >> I mean, you got to take one step at a time. I got to get my mind right before I get my body right. Wouldn't you agree? >> No, the getting your body right will help get your mind right. I think you That's some truth to that. I think it I think that you may be right about that. >> Oh, 100%. Getting your body right fixes your mind, without a doubt. >> I will say I'm at my best I'm at my peak when it's a holiday to celebrate. >> rested. I'm rested. It's more incentive like if you want me to really smash good time you consider like uh uh Valentine's Times Day, Christmas, uh uh Kwanzaa. You can get seven good days. But to expect me to be at my best on just a regular Tuesday or a Wednesday is not going to happen. I need more incentive. >> drinking. You like to drink. Why would you say that? I know why you would say that. >> Come on. I've seen you. All right. I've been with you. Okay. >> with you. Okay, then that's a good point. >> [laughter] >> All right. Then cigarettes. >> You was there. You brought a pack with you. Right? There's that. Those Those are not good. Um there's uh But you used to smoke. I saw one of your podcasts. I forget how you explained what made you not want to smoke anymore. What was that? >> Well, cigarettes are a cognitive enhancer. They are. That's a fact. Nicotine is a cognitive enhancer. There's no doubt about it. It's a fact. And it does things to to your mind. It stimulates your mind in a way that very few other things do. That's why a lot of intellectuals, a lot of professors use nicotine. A lot of academics use nicotine. A lot of people that rely on their brain use it. A lot of writers use nicotine. And there's different delivery methods that have different effects. Unfortunately, smoking has a very potent instantaneous effect. Uh and that's why people like it, but it comes with a cost, you know, the the physical health, you know, repercussions of cigarettes are well-known. Yeah. >> Not good. And also you're you're smoking Marlboros. There's a We had a doctor on the other day that thinks that um Marlboro Lights, don't you I'm not really >> are not nearly like American Spirits are not nearly as bad for you. as uh these cigarettes >> that they have some type of the the American Spirits, I'm not even like advocating for what you should shouldn't smoke. But they supposed they say that's supposed to be the most natural if there's such a thing. >> tobacco, I believe. Is that a fact? >> Nope. No? What's in there besides tobacco? >> know. I've been trying to They They got I don't know how this lawsuit ended up, but they got sued for the advertising of saying it's additive-free and all that. >> Oh, did they? Yeah. What are What are the additives? >> I'm not the site. I'm I don't know what the additives are on it. I've tried to look. I mean, there's a big Here's like the website about the lawsuit. >> What's the accusation? That uh here you go. It's on the screen. Oh, here we go. Lawsuit questions natural claims. Natural American Spirit cigarettes are made by Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company and parent company Reynolds American, R.J. Reynolds. They [ __ ] with you. American Spirits has been sold in the US since 1985 under the original name Original American Spirit. Do do do do do do do organic Oh, you got us, you [ __ ] >> [snorts] >> Um unadulterated tobacco. Suit claims that such marketing language has endeared American Spirit cigarettes to a core group of smokers who believe that the natural tobacco in the cigarette makes them a healthier alternative. Despite cigarette sales declining 17% between 2009 and 2014, American Spirit sales have increased 86% over the same period. Huzzah. Uh a regulatory filing on the Reynolds American website states American Spirit is the leading super premium cigarette brand that is a top 10 best-selling cigarette brand priced higher than most other competitive brands and is differentiated from key competitors through its use of all-natural additive-free tobacco, including styles made with organic tobacco. But words like all-natural and additive-free on American Spirit's labeling, the suit says, belies the fact that Santa Fe Reynolds adds ammonia to their cigarettes to maximize the amount of nicotine a smoker receives with the result that American Spirits contains significantly more freebase nicotine than other major cigarette brands. >> [snorts] >> So you actually getting high off of cigarettes? 100%. I get high off of them because I don't smoke them all the time. So I only smoke if if I smoke like a couple cigarettes a week, it's a lot. And Newports probably like 10 times worse than menthol cigarettes probably 10 times worse to before your body. I was talking to Cat about that. I was Yeah, I was asking him like why why do you like menthols? And he's like he was speaking on behalf of the black community. He said we like things that are more potent. I believe that that's possible part of it, but I also believe that back in the day and this apply I don't know if I talked about this. It was certain brands that targeted certain communities just for the loyalty of it. And I think Newports was targeted I don't know if it was a situation when Newport came out, they were spending more of their ad money with advertising and everything cuz I don't know if I shared this story with you, but um uh Pepsi was a company that did that where they targeted the black community. So I think even though I understand we said more potent, but I think it was something that was in our community whether that was like cheaper prices or whatever. And I think it's generation to generation like you need to do this because black people did this because it was cheaper or whatever. I think that that might be the case with Newport. >> both. What is the menthol effect? What what is the What is the difference in the way menthol cigarettes Dog, I I sound like Cat Williams the next day. >> [laughter] >> They ruined that's one of the reasons I had to downgrade to like some people think that I started smoking Marlboro Lights cuz I started dating white women, which is more appealing. Unless you date a white woman from the Midwest, then she's probably smoking Newports and drinking Pepsis and Coca-Colas just like you. >> [laughter] >> But I think that But I got so many bad habits that I need to change. >> Here we go. Our sponsor, our AI sponsor, Perplexity, says the menthol effect in cigarettes come from the chemical menthol itself, which is added as a flavoring and a sensory agent to the tobacco. Menthol is naturally found in peppermint and other mint plants. It can also be made synthetically in a lab. Menthol activates cold-sensitive nerve receptors in the mouth, throat, and airways, creating a cooling sensation when you inhale smoke. It's a mild mild anesthetic numbing effect that reduces pain and irritation from hot harsh cigarette smoke, making it feel smoother. Menthol can suppress the cough reflex and dull early warnings or early warning signs of airway irritation, which make it easier to inhale more deeply and more often. Menthol reduces the perceived harshness of nicotine and smoke. Uh the minty taste and smell, plus the cooling feel, act as a pleasant sensory cues that many smokers come to associate with satisfaction and craving. Menthol can alter nicotine metabolism and the way nicotine acts on brain receptors, which may increase nicotine's reinforcing addictive effects. In short, the menthol effect is not from nicotine, but from added menthol, which cools and numbs the airways, masks masks irritation, and can make cigarettes feel smoother and more addictive without making them any safer. >> So, menthol cigarettes appeal to black people because it's a cool cigarette. It's cool. >> That's what Now that makes so much sense why they brand cool cigarette cuz it makes you That makes sense. >> Right. That's why they call the cool, I bet. Damn. What white people do to destroy my community, man? Destroy everybody. They don't give a [ __ ] about anybody. Cool ain't cold. Half ain't wide, body ain't soul, mild ain't bold, cool ain't cool, Newport is. Oh, cuz that was like a The cool That makes sense. >> take on cools cuz people used to smoke cools. Could the cools exist anymore? In jail. Only in jail? >> I think that I think I don't know what the >> [laughter] >> the ratio the ratio is what what cigarette gets you more money in a dice game. But whenever I hear people telling war stories, they like, "Man, I got a pack I got a carton of Kools for a bag of Doritos or something." But the value of a Kool cigarette is is is higher in in prison. >> Isn't it crazy that they just give you cigarettes in prison? That's crazy. It's like the only drug you can get in prison. >> Yeah, and those I You can't get alcohol, right? Well, you can get hooch. Well, you can't get alcohol, but they make their own type of alcohol. >> it's all under the table. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But I think in prison the things that hold the most value, I think it's Tang. Right? It's that artificial flavored drink you do I think that it's >> Astronaut [ __ ] Yep, cigarettes, Doritos, I heard honey buns hold their value. And I heard candy bar, but candy bars you got to be particular with that. You cuz if you offer This is what I hear. If you offer a person a certain amount of candy bars, then what I understand is that you're inviting them to have sexual intercourse with you. Interesting. >> Yeah. Candy bars. >> Yeah, like you I don't think you can >> some candy bars? And that's like code. >> Yeah, it's like candy bar. >> Like pizza. >> Mr. Goodbar for this good bar. Oh, okay. >> it's This is only Not that I've had those experiences, Joe, but this is the times that I frequent the streets, which aren't anymore, not too often. These are the stories that they tell. Interesting. >> Yeah. Yeah. And these facts you don't need them for anything but for barber shop talk, but these are the conversations that I have. Yeah. That I've I've heard people have. It's interesting how different brands market to different people. And I mean, how do they figure it out? Like what do they work like That that's where it's evil, right? Like advertising itself I don't have a problem with, but I did I there is something weird about deceptive advertising that's legal, you know? >> Well, they they do a a history on what uh people like. I was watching or reading a story about the uh people that started Forever 21. I forget what the brand was. It was some Koreans from South Korea, not to be confused with Kim Jong-un and [clears throat] those people. But, they were telling us something. They started a small boutique, and what they would do was they would have these clothing uh pieces of clothing, and they would really pay particular attention to what colors people like, um what was uh selling the most, whatever, and that's what they buy. And one of the things that made Forever 21 so popular cuz they had really inexp- These clothes weren't expensive, but they was turning them over so quick, you know? So, people do do case studies and see what people uh attracted to. I know with um with black people, um you you put lemon pepper on anything, it's going to go out out the roof. You could do lemon pepper chicken wings, lemon pepper french fries, anything lemon pepper, they're going to go. I don't know who started the whole lemon pepper craze, but you lemon pepper anything, black people going to buy it. >> That's interesting, like how white people are associated with very bland foods. Eat. You know? Macaroni and cheese, mashed potatoes, mayonnaise. >> why you're connected with that blandness? Cuz the way you pronounced it. Macaroni and cheese? >> You'd never ever say If you tell somebody If you say and you wouldn't be able to be invited to the cookout, Joe. You know, people like you. If If you say, "Hey guys, I'm coming to the cookout," right? And I'm bringing macaroni and cheese, you're going to get uninvited to the cookout. >> What How should I say it? >> Mac and cheese. >> Mac and cheese. >> Yeah, you can't say macaroni and cheese. Nobody ever does that. Okay. >> You would They would look at you as a spy. You would get invited and be uninvited. >> Well, >> I'm a different type of white person cuz I'm Italian and we're associated with spicy food, very strong flavors. Yeah, but >> It's a different like Italian people don't like bland food. >> So you're not going to say you're not going to say I'm >> I'm bringing baked ziti to the barbecue. You'll be like I'm bringing ziti, right? Yeah, I don't know. I would say baked ziti. Yeah, because there's different kinds of ziti. You know, there's ziti that you bake and then there's ziti that you just boil and put, you know, marinara sauce on. There's different >> say this. As much as, you know, community make fun of um white people and their lack of seasoning, that can save your life. Lack of seasoning can save your life? How so? >> When you think about you look at somebody one the most country uh uh home cook soul food spot, the one ingredient that's in everything that you taste right off the rip is salt. How good is salt for you? >> for you at all. It's all [ __ ] >> salt is? All [ __ ] If you're feeling a little off, it's okay. It's February. Everybody feels a little off in February. It's darker, it's colder. You probably already gave up on some New Year's resolutions. But you don't have to wait till spring to get yourself right again. 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They associate salt with high blood pressure, salt with this, salt with this. It's not true. It's [ __ ] What type of salt is it? Different salt? Is it No, it's not Salt's not bad for you. Well, first of all, there's iodized salt, which is actually good for you cuz it contains iodine. They add iodine to it, which is good for you. But, salt is not a bad thing. I mean, you shouldn't have too much salt. Look, salt If you eat Look, if you eat enough salt Like you could die. >> Joe, who can't be the president, educate me with this. So, all of these years It's a It's a These people getting their toes chopped off. That's not why. That's not why. If you're getting diabetes, it's usually from sugar. Okay. You know, there's There's been a lot of misinformation that's spread because of actual scientists that were bribed by the the sugar industry. So, the sugar industry, they paid a bunch of Harvard scientists. It was Harvard, right? I believe it was. They didn't even give them a lot of money. Uh Was it the 1950s or 1960s, Jamie? Do you remember? So, this is all been outed now, but what they did was they tried to associate saturated fat and and foods with saturated fat with being responsible for heart disease. And they did that to try to get the blame off of sugar cuz sugar is [ __ ] terrible for you. It's terrible in in basically every way, especially added sugar. >> are all of these diseases that we speak of are more more cur- happening in the black community than in the white community? >> It's diet. It's 100% It's sugar. It's processed food. It's diet. It's sugar. It's sugary drinks. It's the amount of sugar like if you say if you drink like a a 1 L Pepsi. The amount of sugar that is Okay, let's find that out. How much sugar is in a 1 L Pepsi? If you drink several of these a day, one of them I believe is more sugar than you're ever supposed to have in a day. Pepsi is the one and that's why it was >> could be Coca-Cola, it could be Pepsi, Mountain Dew, name it. Pick your poison. I think it's 100% Pepsi. Well, Pepsi's I don't know if Does Pepsi have more sugar than Coca-Cola? I don't know. Nah, I took this off. You know, Coca-Cola is one of the only things that's still flavored with cocaine leaf. Uh sugar content 115 123 g in a 1 L bottle. That's a crazy amount of sugar. 25 tsp. 35 sugar cubes. God damn. That's 130% 138% of the recommended daily value of sugar. That's That's where people are getting type 2 diabetes. They're getting it from excess sugar. Specifically, excess sugar like in a liquid form, your body does not know what the [ __ ] to do with that cuz nowhere in nature do you get sugar in a liquid form like that. Like even orange juice. Like people think orange juice is good for you. It's not. Like drinking orange juice Yeah, you're going to get some vitamin D, but you're also going to vitamin C rather, but you're also going to get a gigantic dose of sugar that has no fiber in it. But isn't it a different type of sugar in fruits and vegetables than what you get off the counter or like >> get fructose rather than high fructose corn syrup. Uh you know, look sugar from fruit is the best sugar for you because it's attached to fiber. And that's that's a slow release sugar. Like if you eat an apple. Apples aren't bad for you. It's a natural way that your body consumes sugar. But there's Apples were bad for Adam. Uh I don't even know if it was an apple. It was an apple. >> It was a fruit from the tree of knowledge, the tree of >> It was an apple. Uh It was an apple. >> But it wasn't an apple tree. What it What specifically does the Bible refer to as the fruit that >> Adam and Eve Adam You know the truth? What? Eve never talked to God. Adam talked to God. Adam told God not to eat the fruit. There's nowhere in the Bible does it say that Adam went and told Eve. This is why we should start not just shutting women down to listening to them. >> [laughter] >> It all started as all biblical. >> Genesis doesn't specifically specify rather what kind of fruit Adam ate. Only that it calls it fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Yeah, so it's not necessarily an apple. We call it an apple. Uh, the text never names the species apple, fig, etc. The Hebrew word is perry, a general term meaning fruit without a botanical detail. Where the apple idea came from over time Jewish and Christian interpreters proposed many candidates including fig, grape, pomegranate, citron, and others. Now common ideas that an apple developed later in European tradition helped by word play in Latin and Old French where the words evil and apple or fruit sounded or were spelled similarly. So it's not necessarily an apple. I really don't know what to [snorts] believe but I feel like I get so much more information when I come here. I don't know if people understand that. Well, the crazy thing is that I mean I I've found this out recently because I've actually been reading the Bible that the there's no reference whatsoever to Adam telling Eve you're not supposed to eat the fruit from the plant with the knowledge of good and evil. I never knew that. Yeah. I just knew it was a white woman with an apple and this [ __ ] got [ __ ] up after that. >> What happened was God created Adam. This is what Genesis says. God created Adam and then told Adam go and name all the animals. And then when he was done with that, Adam made Eve. But he never said it never says in the Bible Adam told Eve do not eat the apple. Who's giving this us this misinformation? Well, the problem with the Bible is first of all that it was an oral tradition forever. So it was an oral tradition for a long time before it was ever written down. Then it was written down in a bunch of ancient languages. It was written down in ancient Hebrew, it was written down in Aramaic Aramaic. And then when you translate ancient Hebrew to first they translated to Latin and then they translated to Greek and all these other maybe Greek first. I forget which one was first. But either way, the the translations miss a lot of the the language. It's a very complicated ancient Hebrew is a very complicated language. And numbers double as letters in ancient Hebrew. So ancient Hebrew doesn't have numbers. All their words have a numerical value to them. >> What do you think makes people so connected to the Bible? Is it because of wanting to believe in something? Definitely. >> Definitely wanting to believe in something and then specifically if you look at like the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you follow them, I think it'll lead to a better life. I think it makes you a better person, makes you a better member of the community. It reinforces community. It's like a really good way to live your life. So I think people that live that way, that actually live that way, they're better examples of human beings. So that makes it reinforced. But it's also people there's a lot of other religions that people believe in that don't have those aspects to them. People want to believe things. People want to believe in things even if you like like Scientology, people deeply believe in Scientology and we know it was written by a science fiction author. Right. Who was a bad science fiction author. L. Ron Hubbard wrote some terrible books. Like that guy would just bang books out. He never rewrote [ __ ] He everything was a first draft. Just just He wrote more fiction than any human being that's ever lived. And he also wrote Scientology. And people believe in it. I do believe pe- I think people like you say, people want to if your life is [ __ ] up or whatever, they want to be able to say, "Okay, this is my savior. If I believe in this, it's going to get me on the right track." >> 100%. >> And then with that, with these like Chuskey just did a a skit that went viral, all right? And it was like he was making fun of the mega churches and everything. But these churches, like they give these people something to believe in, make them feel better, and they charge the people. Do you think that it should be a separation? If I If I inspire you, if my writings or my speeches inspire you to want to do something and change your life and be more financially secure, do you think these people are entitled to like, "Okay, almost like agencies." If I get you to work or get you to should you hit me off? Or the mega churches, is it so wrong for me to just to pour all their money to them or are they giving these people something to believe in? If that's the case, do I supposed to get a piece of that? >> I think they're preying on people's need to believe in things. And I think they're very predatory. And I think that's why they're flying private jets and driving Rolls-Royces and living in mega mansions on giant ranches. And they're doing it all off of donations of people that are barely getting by. That's a lot of it. You know, I think it's a scam that's legal. I think if we were a just and righteous society, it wouldn't be legal. Right. I mean, it's you're taking advantage of people when they need something to believe in and you're asking for all their money. Like I remember I was watching this guy on TV once. Like televangelists are the worst. And this guy was saying that if you are broke, you should borrow money to donate it to the church and it will be paid back to you tenfold. That God will pay you back tenfold. And then he had all these examples of people that did it and they would call in and say, "I I was a thousand dollars in debt and this and that, but I borrowed a hundred dollars and I donated it to you and now all of a sudden I drive a Rolls-Royce and it's all horse [ __ ] >> But those are all desperate desperate people. Desperate people. >> Those are the same people that I'm going to spend thirty dollars on a lottery every day for like [ __ ] fifty years and don't know how much they spend. >> scam. Yeah, that's another scam. Not only is that a scam, here's the scam about the lottery. Not only does like say if everyone pumps money into the lottery. Say you you buy a hundred dollars worth of tickets and Jamie buys a hundred dollars worth of tickets and I buy a hundred. So there's three hundred dollars in the lottery. There's not even three hundred dollars available if you win. Right. So and then if you win, you don't get all the money. You get the money over a long period of time. >> but >> Right, right, right, but if you if you take the second option, it's a significantly like here's a good example of it. Speaking of the Epstein files. What do you mean speaking of Epstein files? >> Zoro Trust. >> [laughter] >> I didn't like that transition. You look me right in my eyes and said, speaking of the Epstein files. >> Well, Epstein we were talking about it before the podcast. Epstein came to see you. No, Epstein did not [ __ ] come to see me. >> you. They loved your show. Yo. He was your He was your number one fan. >> First of all, I [laughter] never He came TO WHAT? YOU DON'T KNOW. LOOK, he they came to West Palm Improv because you're a famous comedian and you were playing in the town where he lived. So what are you saying? Nothing. But what I'm saying is that >> I'm on I'm actually >> What I'm saying is Epstein won the lottery. His company, Zoro Trust, won an eighty million dollar lottery. And then they paid they they took the pay off and the pay off was only thirty million. >> or you mean with in company corporation? What do you mean when you say won eighty >> They His company bought a ticket for the lottery. Yes, Zoro Trust, which is his company. They won the lottery, which is very suspicious. Not only that, he won the lottery right after he was arrested and went to jail for [ __ ] kids or having sex or whatever whatever he was arrested for. Sexual hand jobs, whatever it was. So, there's nothing wrong with a sexual age. >> underage. No, but when they're underage girls, probably not good. >> didn't know that. So, then when he went um and got the lottery money, the company took the payoff. The payoff out of an $80 million payment the $80 million jackpot was only $30 million. So, if you want the money, you take 30. >> So, not only did they take 50 out of the 80, but then you think about how many people spent money buying lottery tickets. It's way more than 80 million. So, they make money off of that, and then they make money off of the fact that you want the payoff instead of the, you know, the over So, they never could It doesn't matter what the jackpot becomes, they never could lose. They They can't lose. Cuz they still >> money from people that are desperate. It's It's legalized gambling where the house always wins. >> Right. Like, let's find that out. Like, let's say Let's find an average jackpot of Mega Bucks and find out how much money actually goes into it, how much how much money people spend versus how much money the payout is. >> So, when this all lotos are state regulated, right? Right? I don't know. I don't know who regulates them. >> So, they get say they get $100 million from people trying [clears throat] to win a billion dollars. It's cuz it's state regulated. They do they have to pay taxes to the government for the money they A lotto? No, that's the state. Well, it's the government owns it. So, it's a it's a whatever the Not only that, you pay taxes on it. So, say if you get that Yes. So, say if you take that $30 million payout, you don't even get $30 million. Then you have to pay taxes on that $30 million. So, they get money from that, too. They can't [ __ ] lose. But for a person that's never seen barely seen a thousand dollars anywhere, anything with millionaire or going to be excited about and take it before you >> Exactly. Exactly. And over time most people are not going to win. So, most people are dumping money into it. There was a story of a young young lady. I don't know exactly what it was. I think she won some type of lottery where they but gave her two options. She would get I think it was like uh a payout of like two or three million right up front or they give her I think it was like $20,000 every month for as long as she live. Yeah, that's how they do it. >> did this Well, people think that it's kind of crazy, but if you consider the fact that she was probably 20, 21 her life expectancy probably she was white, so she probably lived to 132. >> [laughter] >> You know what I'm saying? She looked like I that was a smart A lot of people would not understand that. That was a smart thing. But I would I did I don't think it's for the rest of your life. I think it's until it reaches that number. I don't think they're going to give you money for the rest of your life. >> Well, maybe I was reading the headline >> was a different kind of lottery that I'm not aware of. >> Maybe I think it was something as long as she lives. That sounds crazy. Yeah. All right, here it is. Typical Mega Millions jackpot run total ticket revenue is usually several times the advertised jackpot. But there's no single fixed average because sales vary enormously with the jackpot size. Still, you can get a good ballpark. So, around 50% of ticket revenue goes into the overall prize pool. So, the government makes 50% right off the bat. >> Right. So, if it's a hundred million-dollar payout, they already made a hundred million. So, this two hundred million dollars is what they made, they throw in a hundred million dollars for everybody. Of that prize pool, roughly two-thirds to three-quarters is allocated to the jackpot with the rest funding lower-tier prizes. So, that means even if there's two hundred million dollars out of a hundred million dollars, only two-thirds of it goes into the the big jackpot. Um and that means the jackpot is typically in the order of one-third of total ticket sales that run. And then out of that 1/3, so say if it's 100 million or with the Epstein case it was 80 million, he took the payout which was 30 million, so they make 50 on top of that, and then on top of that you pay taxes on that 30. It's a crazy scheme. >> with the money? Whatever the [ __ ] they want. I think they probably tell you. I think they certain neighborhoods, I think they probably pump a certain amount of winning tickets into a neighborhood just to get you addicted to keep going in there and spend your money. >> [sighs] >> How it's supposed to be random. You know, I don't know how much oversight Look, if a guy like Jeffrey Epstein can win, I don't know how much oversight is it. I know um back in Boston when I lived there, Whitey Bulger won See if this is true. I think he won the lotto twice, which is crazy. Whitey Bulger, who is that? That sound like a movie. >> a South Boston mob boss uh in the 1980s when I lived there, the 1980s and 90s. A mob A mob boss? Yeah, he was a dangerous dangerous guy. He was the guy that that movie that Leonardo DiCaprio starred in with Jack Nicholson. What was that movie, Jamie? Remember that movie that was based on Whitey Bulger? The Departed? >> yeah, Departed, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was based on Whitey Bulger. He was a gangster? Oh, yeah, terrifying gangster, yeah. What was his demise? He was actually a [ __ ] FBI informant. Not only was he a gangster, he was working with the FBI and they were letting him get away with [ __ ] because he was throwing other people under the bus. I think there's a different I mean They wound up catching him in Santa Monica. Well, I found that >> Hunting Whitey. About that Whitey Bulger won the Mass Millions lottery about that time, yeah. Yeah, he won the [ __ ] lottery, man. So, uh This is what it says here. What What it say? I think it was more of a scheme than they actually won the pot. It's how he was taking money. It's probably a way to like launder money. Yeah. Oh, 100% it's a way to launder money. So, the way it would work was like say if you lived in the community and you won the lottery ticket, maybe they would give you money for your lottery ticket and then he would get it and that way it would show that this is where he got his income from. Like these guys would all own businesses, but the reason why they would own businesses is so they could show why they drive a Cadillac, why they have a mansion, why they have this because they have legitimate businesses. But really these businesses were scams. >> My father convinced my family that he was a real estate agent for years and come to find out he was a heroin kingpin in DC for years. All we needed was an excuse. He's selling real estate, all right. That's hilarious. Um so, he ordered the real winner to sign the ticket over with Whitey and two associates paying $2.3 million in cash for 50% of the winnings. Bulger Bulger himself paid Michael Linsky $700,000. Although Linsky lost money in the deal, he really had no choice. It came down to selling the ticket or risking his life. Yeah, so that's how it usually will works. So, he was a snitch. Whitey was a snitch. Yeah. He was a snitch and he got caught in Santa Monica. He was Snitch or whistleblower? There is a difference. >> No, he was a snitch. Whistleblowers are people that snitch on people in higher profile positions like corporate America. But what I'm finding out >> No, he wasn't a whistleblower. He was an actual snitch because he was turning other people in. But he was a kingpin. Is this true? And I don't want to make everything about race. Is that phrase snitches get stitches more prevalent in the white community or the black community or is it across the board? I think it's across the board, isn't it? Like like the black community is famous for keeping their mouths shut when someone gets shot or when someone does something. Like when cops come and question people. >> anymore because what I'm Not anymore, but that was the thing with the mafia, too. Yeah. mob would never rat out. Guys would just go to jail. >> now because now I see like especially in my community so many people like rat I got the paperwork and everything and now it feels like like that model of being loyal is dead. It's like people now they they getting caught with [ __ ] in a minute. They get caught they snitch on everybody and there's no repercussions when they come home. There's no repercussions. I don't see that as much. I see so many people that are like they saying whatever the [ __ ] they want to do whatever and they still out here just living their lives normal like ain't nothing [ __ ] happened. Well, with the mob it was always like if you ratted on the mob you were a dead man. You were a dead man. Your family was probably dead. They'd burn your house down and and people kept their mouths shut because of that. And so guys would go to jail all the time and never open their mouth and they would be rewarded when they would get out. And they'd have a party for them celebrate. That's in Goodfellas. You kept your mouth shut. You never said nothing. That was the whole thing. But the whole thing I used to live by >> That changed though like with John Gotti. Like the the government >> No, Sammy the Bull >> the Bull and then and it wasn't just them like there's everyone was snitching on everybody. It's like they got these guys and you know, we had Donnie Brasco in in the studio. >> From from um what um from that Bronx >> Johnny Depp movie. It was called Donnie Brasco. Okay. He Well, well, I'm not confused that with um What's his real John De Donnie Brasco's real name? Joe uh I'm not confused with Bronxtale. That's not Bronx Joe Pistone. Joe Pistone. >> That's not nothing to do with Bronxtale, right? >> No, different story. That's different story. Yeah. Um so Donnie Brasco was the guy who was he was an agent and he pretended to be a mob guy and he got in with the mob and was with him for like 7 years. Did all kinds of [ __ ] with the mob and then sold everybody out and they all went under. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just so diff this the culture everything is There used to be a phrase snitches get stitches. Now I don't know if this just everywhere but everywhere I go it's like the most interesting thing now that's selling on any platform especially social media is beef. And I don't understand why people gravitate toward negativity more than anything. That's normal. Why but what but you know what? It's interesting. Your platform is not known for that. No. Your platform but I go to these other platforms and I don't know I think these guys they people they just sit back and it's like okay, what can I say to make people upset get them riled up and then I take advantage of the engagement that they do. They're in a different game than me. All right, their game is trying to get engagement. My game is talking to people that are interested. >> don't doesn't that become I don't want to be triggered anything but doesn't that become destructive >> 100%. >> 100%. >> And do you have you noticed it especially I'll put it like this especially with comedians with podcast. It would it would used to be a time where like you say a person would go on a podcast because they was interested they told funny stories or they was good at their craft or whatever but now it feels like all of these platforms and I don't know that's just in my community when I say that black people it's like the only way I can find myself interesting if I talk [ __ ] about people. Right. >> are going away from being being funny when you get interviewed. Like every [ __ ] podcast I turn on now it's somebody I'm exposed this person I'mma tell this about what you didn't know. And the one thing they're not doing especially as a stand-up comedian [ __ ] don't give a [ __ ] about being funny no more. Are those days over? >> No. No, no, no. Those people that do that are almost always not very talented. Almost always. The only exception to that >> The only exception to that is Katt. And I think what Katt was doing was different cuz what Katt was doing it was exposing what he thought was snakes and liars. >> Okay. Are you It's a different thing. Okay. Okay. I Okay. This is my question. Okay. Okay. This is my question. This is my question. People can take it Okay. Okay. I want to say this. This is what I'm saying. Yeah, Joe, what are you saying? >> I'm coming from this place. I'm like this. No disrespect to whatever to Katt, but like >> [snorts] >> who asked you? Uh Shannon Sharpe did. Said When he did that podcast. Shannon Sharpe might have asked one question. >> Shannon but Shannon Sharpe likes that. Like that in his podcast he likes a lot of that. His his people they find questions. He's got a sheet of paper. He's got questions >> do with those Joe? What do you do with those truths? What do you do with talking about I watched I this is a horrible impression. I sat there in the parking lot and I watched people go up in the Diddy's house and they came down and they were standing up. I'm trying to figure out what the [ __ ] do you get out of that? What what what is the result of that? You expose these people to say what? Hollywood is never going to [ __ ] change. You know what changes? Like what you do. I left [ __ ] Hollywood. Hollywood is not going to change. And I'm not saying I went to a Diddy party. First off, I was never invited. There's a chance I would accept the invitation with rules. You know, but if what is the purpose of exposing something Well, I don't think most people are exposing. What most people are doing when they're being negative is they are jealous and they are below the person they're talking [ __ ] about. Like whenever I see someone that's talking [ __ ] about a high level >> You don't think that you say that and you use Cat Williams as an example. So when you sitting there Joe >> Well Cat first of all when Cat did it was very funny which is different. Cat's a very funny guy and when he was doing it I think he was also being very funny while he was doing it which is different. >> Well you have to put a lol on the end of it cuz people might not understand it as humor cuz this is what this is the connection people have. They this is what they the connection they have with Cat they're like they this is what they say and they ride with him they say where is the lie? Where is the lie and all this stuff. But I'm just trying to understand what is the purpose of exposing all this stuff. What do we do with this information? What do we do with the information that Diddy like to have [ __ ] freak parties with baby all this what the [ __ ] do we do with all this information? >> Well Diddy's in jail right now so they did that with the information. >> in jail for doing something that a lot of people I let me tell you something Joe. Tell me something. I was riding with Diddy for once I like the music he did everything I don't know Diddy like that but when I first read the definition of sex trafficking right? >> Uh-huh. >> I'm sure you're a versed person you're smart. Uh-huh. The definition of sex trafficking to transport a woman across state lines with the intent to have sexual intercourse with her. Right. >> When I heard that >> paying them it's trafficking is >> No that's not actually my I I I I >> Really? This is my Jamie you can pull this up. >> Wait a minute so if you are dating a girl and she lives in Minnesota and you live in California and you fly her to California that's sex trafficking? >> and I'm thinking about >> think that's true. I don't think that's true at all. I think that's just flying a girl in that you're having a relationship >> it flew it out flew it out. >> Yeah but that's normal everybody does that. But that's the definition. >> It's commercial sex >> Yeah commercial commercial sex act. Induced by force fraud or coercion. Huh well coercion is crazy cuz it's coercion is like, "Please, I'll buy you a bag." That's sex trafficking. That's a dick. So, like, if a girl Right, if you If you If there's a girl she's like, "What are you going to do for me?" Like, "You know those shoes you want? I got those shoes for you. Let's go shopping." Like, that's kind of sex trafficking if that's coercion for money. Like, if a girl's thinking about coming out to visit you and then you go, "Listen, listen, listen. What are you looking for? What do you What do you want to buy? I got money. Come on, let's go shopping." That kind of would fall into that category. But, look, but we're getting off topic. Let's go back to the topic originally in hand. The reason why these comedians are negative I need to No, no, no, no, you're not going to get in trouble for sex trafficking. Listen, that's all horse [ __ ] But, the reason why these comedians are doing it is because they're never bigger than the comedians they're [ __ ] on. Never. >> 1,000% 1,000% what it is, Joe? And they're never good. Yeah, you know what it is, too, Joe? Is that deep down on his side, they want to be that person. >> 100% >> And I tell you what, this is >> to be in the position that person's in is a better way of putting it. >> And now I'll I'll I'll use this. I'll tell you this story. I realized I Not Not to say names, but you It's so many people that could be guilt guilty of it. And this is the thing that I hear that understands me that that that that that disturbs me is that you know the uh a lot of these people that [ __ ] the most they at some point in their career, they were favored by Hollywood. Yes. >> At some point in their career, they had these opportunities. At some point in their career, guess what? They had the agencies. They had the agents. And something happened in their career where they fell out of favor for whatever you want to call that it Whatever you want to call it Whatever Maybe something they did. Agency didn't like like it too much. And now everything that they wrote on everything they wanted to do, now it's all that's [ __ ] up and the way you get this opportunity cuz it has to be sexual favors and all that type of [ __ ] And where do the [ __ ] you draw the line? >> But it's not even sexual favors. It's like they criticize the work of the other person. That person ain't [ __ ] That person sucks. >> I Can I Yo, there's Here's the thing. There was >> [snorts] >> Come on. You You get this all the time because you ride with Dave and Dave's number one, right? So you You always get You always get this label even though you're a great comic. You get this label being a coattail rider. >> Right. And guess what? Everybody don't This is what I try to explain to people, Joe. Everybody does not have to be Batman. >> [laughter] >> I don't have a problem with being Robin. You know why? Cuz Robin got the same amount of screen time as Batman. And the reason why I say This is what I get. And I'm I'm telling you this, Joe. I don't know if this gum is kicking in. >> [laughter] >> This is what's This is what [ __ ] me up, Joe. This is what [ __ ] me up. And I'll tell you example. I'mma give you example. >> Don't give me examples. >> tell you >> Are you putting on your phone? I'mma tell you why. Because your [ __ ] shirt is [ __ ] triggering me right now. >> Kill Tony? Uh No, I don't want to >> greatest comedy show of all time in the history of the known universe? >> that, but there's a lot [snorts] of lies involved. Okay. Listen. [laughter] This is This is what they saying. THIS IS WHAT THEY SAYING. >> DON'T PAY ATTENTION to what they saying. No, listen. Why are you doing that? >> Yo, YOU TOLD >> WHAT ARE YOU PLAYING? things that the Kill Tony audience say about me. Um Chappelle's butt plug IS ACTING UP AGAIN. >> [laughter] >> YO, I GOT TO DEAL WITH THIS [ __ ] WHAT IS THE NO. WELL, YOU GOT TO STOP paying attention to it. >> It's so hard. >> Do you know what it would happen to me if I paid attention to all the haters that I have? I would go crazy. You would. Do you think that you paid attention to those haters Now you're in a position right now you have so many reasons to say [ __ ] them. Do you feel like you had that same belief when you was first starting this? Did you Did you engage them then? Well, I engaged online with a lot of people in the early days cuz I didn't understand what you're doing is you're engaging with people that don't have happy lives. Right. And they're negative. And there's some criticisms that are good for you because some criticisms make you evaluate what you're doing and say, "Okay, well, what I need to do is be undeniable so these critics mean nothing to me because you can't I'm killing, the audience loves me, I'm selling out everywhere, I'm doing great on stage." That you can't pay attention >> what? You know what? I will say this, I hear you, Joe. I tried that with them [ __ ] on your shirt. You had one bad show. You had one bad show. I never had You had a bad show. You had a bad show. >> Please don't do this to me, all right? >> You had that one bad show where you went back and forth with the you walked Did you walk off the show? Who? Just sit down, man. >> [laughter] >> I get sit the [ __ ] down. SIT THE [ __ ] DOWN. YOU WANT ME TO PLAY IT BACK? PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. >> [laughter] >> You were a little drunk. Who was the comic? Who was the comic? >> I don't know his name. We don't need to bring him up. Whoever that dude is, he's funny. No, see now you're doing this. You know what you're doing. You're doing You're being a PROVOCATEUR RIGHT NOW. >> [laughter] >> YOU'RE PROVOKING ME CUZ WE BROKE THIS [ __ ] DOWN AND I DON'T WANT TO KEEP going through this. >> think of this when I was wearing this shirt. I'll change the shirt. >> No, it's okay. Put something over it. I'll wear a Benny the Jet shirt. Let's Let's break it down, Joe. No, we don't have to. >> If we have to, you started this [ __ ] All right? Thank you. I'm going to change my shirt right now. >> Yeah. It's like I didn't have a bad show. You definitely didn't have a great show, right? When you walk off, it's not good. Jesus Christ, GOD DAMN >> [laughter] >> I FEEL LIKE CARRIE. THEY'RE ALL GOING TO LAUGH AT ME. THEY'RE GOING TO LAUGH AT ME. It wasn't this for the last [ __ ] time, Joe. For the last [ __ ] time. And this is what's so [ __ ] evil about this situation. There's some people call it bad show. I never wanted to do the show. But you came back on. You had a good show, right? I want to go back. Let's rewind. All right? And this is you were part of it. >> Hey, look. I changed my shirt. >> No more trigger. >> that. Shout out to Benny the Jet. >> Okay, I feel a lot better now. >> [laughter] >> So, oh boy. I need another piece of gum. >> [snorts] >> I'm going to say this. Say what it's worth. First off, I did not want the first time I did it here in Austin. Right. I didn't want to do the show. Okay. And the reason why I didn't want to do the show, now you're not even paying attention. >> a cigar? Yeah, I'll take a cigar. I I didn't want to do the show and I'll tell you why. Cuz I'm the streets say I'm sensitive. You are a little sensitive. Can I have not have your opinion and just listen to me, please? The um uh They know I'm sensitive. It was during the pandemic, Joe, you remember, people would still come to do your podcast cuz they know the benefits of it and you had your thing going. They would come to your podcast and then they would [ __ ] leave cuz they didn't want to catch COVID and then they would leave Tony stranded and he had no good guests. I was here, right? This wouldn't when I'm talking about the time when Tony had a black band. He still has a black band. All black. There's a couple of black people on in there. I mean, it's I think it's mostly black. Right? >> Okay. I want to tell the story. This is the last time I'm going to talk about >> Deep manness? I mean, name them all. >> time, Joe. I want to tell the truth. >> Drummer and the guitar player or not? What's that? Mike. Yeah, I mean, there's like And then the horns. A lot of them are black. Definitely. >> Doesn't matter. 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This isn't about hype, it's just a solid American company making good products and backing the people who serve. Go to blackriflecoffee.com/rogan and use the code Rogan for 30% off. You also find it at Walmart, Target, Kroger or your local Black Rifle Coffee Shop. Veteran founded, American roasted, Black Rifle Coffee is America's coffee. Look at the old fit when it when it when it was all it had not high production and all that type [ __ ] Tony is like, it's hard for me to get a guest, would you stay? And this is when you [ __ ] me up the last time. You wasn't playing fair. Yes, you did. >> playing fair? No, I'm telling you when you weren't playing fair. When was I not playing fair? >> Can I talk? >> Please. >> [laughter] >> All I wanted to do is I don't know if I got to raise my hand. I just want to be able to speak. It is my month. It's my [ __ ] month. So, Tony said, would you stay? Come on. I was like, you know, and I stayed, right? >> Okay. And I stayed and I stayed. I was on the show for 2 and 1/2 hours. I told him, this is where it gets all crazy. I told him I had a something I was supposed to do later. There was another black comic that was on the show. He started roasting me. I had no problem with that. I had no problem him roasting me, but I felt [ __ ] up because it was only me, him, and I was trying to get this guy some sound advice, but the only way he thought he's going to get off by [ __ ] with me. So, I was like, "Yo, why you [ __ ] with me? We on the same We on this [ __ ] same team." What they did was Look at the [ __ ] video. >> Okay. >> You see? I want [snorts] you to slow it down. >> Slow it down? Slow with the video down. It's like it's a Zapruder film. It's like You got to let me You're going to let me freely get my thought, Joe. >> Sorry. It's so easy for me to get distracted. Just hanging out >> pitch gum? >> [laughter] >> So, if you look at this video, you see him saying something to me, and then when I leave, it's two different [ __ ] comics on the [ __ ] stage. It's the dude that I was roasting, and then they show me the exit. And then these Kill Tony bitch-ass [ __ ] that I'm telling you, I'll get past it. They may Oh, Donnell walked up. I didn't walked up. I had some other [ __ ] to do. Then the last episode, you and your boy Tony, he called here, and Tony doubled down on it, and he said, "No, that's not what happened." Of course, them comment [ __ ] the ones that be putting cringe on here, they roll with it. >> Okay. Then I came back. Came back here on an amazing show. Tony said it was one of the best shows he's ever done. >> it was amazing? >> Cuz you were ready. I I'm amazing. >> You You are amazing, but also you wanted to get it back. Right? I didn't have You know what? This is what Redman said to me. Redman Redman Whatever the [ __ ] his name is. He changed, too. [clears throat] I'm going to tell you about Let me tell you. >> [laughter] >> I'm going to tell you the difference between him, and I'm going to tell you the similarities between him and Jamie a little later on, right? How they're divas now. And I know you said it different. >> Jamie? My Jamie's a diva? Yes, you do. The last thing from a [ __ ] I will defend Jamie to the bitter end. >> Well, maybe you don't know him. I DON'T KNOW [laughter] JAMIE? YO, LET ME TELL YOU. THIS IS JAMIE. >> JAMIE BETTER THAN HIS MOM. But this is the JAMIE I SAW. >> [laughter] >> KILL TONY AFTER PARTY. >> SIT DOWN. YOU'RE NOT on camera. >> Okay. It was also Saturday night. >> Okay. He had a leather jacket on. He don't have a leather Jamie had a leather jacket on. He don't own a leather jacket. Whatever it was. Do you OWN A LEATHER JACKET? NO, HE DOESN'T EVEN OWN A LEATHER WAIT. WAIT. WAIT. [laughter] WAIT. THE COLLAR WAS FLIPPED UP. >> MEMORY. YO, THE COLLAR WAS FLIPPED UP. >> LIKE DICE. AND THEN AND THEN HE HAD A SHIRT HE MIGHT HAVE [laughter] HAD Timmy No Brakes. He's confused. Yo, he had the shirt open to this button right here. >> Oh, right. Yeah. Chains. >> And he was sitting in I don't know what type of mousse or >> me a gold chain? Mousse on his hair. PONYTAIL [snorts] WAS POPPING. >> [laughter] >> HE HAD SOME TYPE OF MOUSSE OR SOMETHING, RIGHT? And then he was just looking and I was like, "What's up, Jamie?" He was like, he had his hands in his pocket. It was giving as they say it was giving Fozzie attitude. I knew I knew that it changed. But this is what Redman Redman whatever man he is. Redman. He said after the show he said "That must been the most epic comeback in Kill Tony history." I was like, >> second episode was. He came back full steam. >> what you're doing? I don't know >> It was great. I'm trying to use a term. I don't I don't think this is passive aggressive. But you're [ __ ] with my MENTAL RIGHT NOW. >> NO, I'M TELLING YOU YOU'RE A GREAT comic and you're funny as [ __ ] And when you came back it was amazing. That's what you said. >> episode was great. >> This is the point I'm making that what you're doing. Right. >> The first episode was great. Mhm. It was Dr. >> [laughter] >> It was IT WAS DR. DR. YOU DOCTORED IT. >> [laughter] >> BUT THEN THEN HERE'S THE THING. They said >> [snorts] >> Redman Redman. He said He said that was the greatest comeback. I was like, "It wasn't a comeback. You're editing what it was. And this what I DID. >> YOU'RE EDITING IT. THIS IS WHAT I DID. And I'm not saying I think about the Kill Tony audience like that, but I thought about them cuz what This is what I said. I was like, this is what I went like you said, I'm a great comic. I know what I do. I said, you know what? I don't want to give these [ __ ] opportunity to be able to [ __ ] with me. So, I did before I went to the last I said, okay, what did you do last time that you're going to do different so they won't say that. I was like, the last one you had some drinks. Well, I I wasn't able to do anything about that cuz I had some more drinks. But I was like, I tried to address what their concerns were, right? Which and and with them it's not going to make a difference cuz I know that last episode what did This is what I didn't understand about Kill Tony. I didn't understand the the the formula. I don't watch it like that. First time I ever did it, I was interrupting the one-minute part. You know what I mean? Oh, okay. And Tony told me first time I did it, he said, D, only one rule. He said, let them talk for a minute. I said, Tony, why you have this on me on the show? You know I'm going to break the rules. >> [clears throat] >> And he knew that, right? But then after I I was like, I understood how important it was to let those comics get that minute. Right. So, when I did it the second time with Rob Schneider, I didn't interrupt. Sometimes my criticism could have been too hard. I was trying to be more supportive than anything. If you watch the last one I did, I had nothing bad to say about people in a harsh way. Certain people I knew was up there just cuz it was gimmick. And there was certain people I was like, oh man, they really got talent. Like this one lady, she was a older woman. I think she's a regular there, right? I don't know what she know what she was, but I told her I said, you know, it's so awesome. I said, when I watch you perform, I see passion. I see somebody that's going into a different career later in life, which is the hardest thing to do. I made those points like and I wasn't trying to be an [ __ ] And even I got caught up on one and they ran with this [ __ ] And it's a song that uh there was one of the acts by the name of Wanida. Wanida is a a gender What is it when you Transgender? Yeah, you you have a dick but you're a girl still? Yeah. Yeah, transgender, right? So, she came up with this song and she did a song we will we will praise you praise you. And I had a couple drinks, right? And I said and I was thinking like >> [snorts] >> What? What, Jamie? I just started playing it, sorry. What's up? >> [laughter] >> Just start Oh, you geared up for that [ __ ] huh? Put your headphones on. No, listen. Put your headphones on. Oh god, okay. Hold on, hold on. >> [laughter] >> Go. >> Go ahead. All right. >> [snorts] >> Wait a minute, that's Wanita's version? That's not the That's the >> [laughter] >> Okay. Okay, do you got Wanita's version? >> Oh, I can find it. Get to So, this is what happened, Joe. So, I'm I had a couple I'm two two three four five Titos in. >> [laughter] >> And I'm only looking at the artist with my peripheral. I'm not staring nobody down and like looking at them in the through the pupils or whatever. So, the performer, I'm going to say that cuz I don't want to get anybody upset, the performer was like >> go. I just want to let them talk to still, though. Okay. Now, look how I'm not paying attention. Right. [clears throat] You're looking right at her. SHUT THE [ __ ] UP! OKAY, LISTEN. >> [laughter] >> ALL RIGHT, WE'LL SEE. UM SO, it was very strange when in 2004 Okay. Oh, they had to cut it out, too, I think. Probably the song. Yeah. I That's the gayest thing I've ever done. And I do anal. Wanita, welcome back to the show. Got you a remix of that song for any black guy watching her right now? Yeah. I DON'T KNOW. WE WILL, [screaming] WE WILL [ __ ] YOU. >> [laughter] >> PROBABLY TRUE until you find out she has a dick, Donnell. That is a trick. >> [laughter] >> KEEP IT GOING. NO. KEEP it going. This is amazing. That's how it happens, ladies and gentlemen. >> [laughter] >> They can't tell. No, no, no, come back. No. The brothers >> [laughter] >> The brothers can't tell. THE BROTHERS CAN'T THEY WILL, THEY WILL [ __ ] YOU. >> [snorts] >> THEY NEVER THE LAST >> I WAS TRYING TO BE NICE. DONNELL, THE [laughter] LAST BUT KEEP it going. Keep it going cuz this is hilarious. Whereas white guys know. >> [laughter] >> THAT'S THE FIRST PLACE A WHITE GUYS LOOK. CHARLAMAGNE'S GOING TO FIND THAT CLIP. >> [laughter] >> WE WILL, WE WILL [ __ ] YOU. YOU are You ARE [ __ ] DONNELL. >> [screaming] >> I'M GETTING WORD FROM THE STREETS. >> NICE, MAN. >> [laughter] >> I'm getting WORD FROM THE STREETS. I'M SURE THIS HAPPENED >> GET BANNED LIKE DAVE CHAPPELLE, [ __ ] DONNELL, I'M SURE this happened before in Korea. >> Stop [laughter] I'm sure Korea is an 18-year-old boy. This is a memory coming back to you. Oh my god. This is usually how black guys react. It's pretty. Juanita, have you been with a black man before? >> You go there. You keep it going. Keep it going cuz it gets you funnier. Okay, are you just saying that so that he doesn't find you and kill you? No, I was raised right. I'm just kidding. I mean, that's gay. Oh, [ __ ] Now I'm offended. No, I I have been I've been with one. He was half. Okay, he was half. >> Half a black. Okay. MY CAREER IS OVER, [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> IS IS IT OVER? >> [laughter] >> COME ON, THAT WAS FUNNY. >> NO, WAIT A MINUTE. It was funny and I didn't take The funny thing about it was I had a I did have a couple drinks, right? People like, "How did you not know?" Like, um I live in the Midwest and what I really thought it was I know women that look just like Juanita. Sure. >> That That in the face is kind of like sketchy, like a Dollar General one to two. And uh I wasn't offended, but it just It just caught me off guard. But what I'm going back to what I was saying about the Kill Tony thing. And this is another thing people said, "Well, Donnell, you got upset cuz Rob Schneider was roasting you or whatever." First off, there was the first time Rob Schneider was on the show, right? He didn't really know too much about the Kill Tony platform. I knew a little more than he did. And at the beginning, he was kind of cold, if you want to say. Not cold like not funny, but he just wasn't warmed up to the flow. And then I started saying things that we was I was alley-ooping him, right? >> Right. It Basically, people say what they want, I helped get him comfortable on the show and then he started crushing, right? He started crushing and then we did we Anybody tell you that episode was amazing. >> It was amazing. And but this is what thing This is what That play That platform is not a place for you to tell how you really feel about somebody, right? And I owe Tony an apology and I'll tell you why. When Tony did the um all right Aryan Republic National Convention whatever, remember he did the roasting? Yes. For that It was a very very testy time, you know? >> Right. Po- politics, everybody said you shouldn't do do and everything. I told him not to do it. You told him not to do the show? Or not to do the The Republican Party thing. >> Here's the thing. This is what Just for the people that's listening, this is what happened at the end of that Kill Tony with me and Rob Schneider. All I wanted to do I I I had the question on where do you draw the line? Do you draw the line of what people think how you're supposed to response something or do you loyal are you loyal to somebody or how And Tony wanted me to do that show and anytime I've called Tony, he's pick up the phone. Vice versa, we've been there for each other. My publicist I don't know if this is a good idea right now to cuz what you think is a nice gesture you want to do the show, people going to act like it's a political stand. I didn't want that, right? So I had to make >> listen to publicists. This is what I learned now, Joe. What I'm saying that was my inexperience whatever and something I kept calling and I was like what if I do this cuz I wanted to be reconnected with him whatever and I told Tony he was hot. In a good way and a positive I felt so bad I got called him I said, man I really want to do the show but I think people are going to take it the wrong way now, right? And this is with me I felt bad about it. I stood up at your condo. I was on the balcony, bro. And I watched [ __ ] go on to the show. I felt bad about it. I didn't do it. And only thing I wanted to do at the end of that Kill Tony episode was to apologize to him and say, you know, as a friend I probably wasn't there and he understood even though I was like he's never going to do the show again. He said I'd love to have you there. The only issue I had with Rob Schneider in that moment he didn't have the sense of me trying to say something serious, right? And he he was getting a laugh off this one joke and it was at my expense. You know, when I had this moment I was talking about friendship and everything. Rob kept on with this [ __ ] corny joke and I didn't want to flip out and then people took that as like oh yeah, Rob roasted him. The the out of here. I was trying to talk about and I had this issue. You might have the same issue. Some people know people certain way you know them different way and I use an example and I'm going to get [ __ ] on for saying this or whatever like oh how could you say that? I um You got to stop worrying about what other people think. >> Can't do it. [cough and clears throat] I can't do it. You got to stop worrying about what other people think. This is This is the conflict. You You know how you feel. Just be yourself. I'll just say this Kid Rock. Kid Rock, right? You say that name for some people in certain places and they're like oh [ __ ] him or whatever, right? >> Right. I met Kid Rock some years ago when we were doing the uh cornfield shows in um in Yellow Springs and I tell people [clears throat] something and we talked about this earlier. Some people are provocateurs. I really believe Kid Rock doesn't believe half the [ __ ] he say, but I think that he knows it's going to move the dial as well as going to make him be in the headlines and what people like oh [ __ ] >> Right. And he's going to stick to that. When we did that [clears throat] show in Nashville, remember we hung out with him, went to his house? >> Yeah, exactly. Um and and with that even when he came to cornfield that time this was the point where he said some crazy [ __ ] out his mouth. Nobody wanted to be around him or anything, right? Right. Right? You know when I do I do this thing called I do river runs in in Yellow Springs, Ohio. And for some reason I take people down the river and it's like a peace thing like you and nature. >> photo of you right outside the door. >> I know I asked for that photo here too. You know what I'm saying? I love that. So now if you look at that photo you'll see the energy. That's the vibe I was on. And nobody wanted to get close to Kid Rock or anything, right? And I remember as a kid how the black community accepted him. He was cool. I'm thinking about that [ __ ] We're riding down the river. Kid is over on one kayak. I'm on the other side. We're smoking joint and he looked at me and I know he was sincere when he said it. He said, "Man, it feel like I just had 13 hours of anger management, right?" And I was like okay, I'm not trying to be a therapist or anything, but that felt good. Then at the end we stopped. He's flipping burgers and We got to know each other, we come in touch with each other. And um he was doing a comedy festival in Nashville, right? He appreciated me as a comedian. He said, "Yo D, I'm doing this." I was like one of the first people he called, right? He said, "You want to do it?" I was like, "Why not?" Then I thought about it, I was like, "What Again, what you said, I was like, what people going to think?" Seven comedians on the show, I'm the only black guy. I knew what I was walking into. I knew it was going to be all MAGAs. It wasn't going to be a gay person. It wasn't going to be a [ __ ] It wasn't going to be a lesbian. It wasn't going to be anything but bonafide, the real real red, white, and blue flag [ __ ] But I said, "Darnell, can you separate Can you go up here? Can you perform and and be entertaining? Not shucking and jiving or none of that type of shit." I went up there, last person got a standing ovation, right? At the end of the show, this is what people might not understand, and I'm not trying to defend him or anything. At the end of the show, me and Kid Rock In this case, I want to say Kid Rock wasn't backstage, Bobby was, right? >> Mhm. And he said, "Man," he looked at me. >> [clears throat] >> He said, "Man, I think we just brought this country back together." Right? And I said, "Well, don't separate it, motherfucker." He said, "Okay." Two weeks later, he do some other stupid [ __ ] When when when when Trump got elected, I know people went to his page to see what his response was going to be. Was he going to gloat? Was he like, "Fuck y'all, this is America." He did this video, which I thought was so dope, cuz it showed two sides of him. It showed Kid Rock and it showed Bobby, right? And then how they both uh responded to Donald Trump being elected. The Kid Rock was the crotch-grabbing [ __ ] [ __ ] you, right? Then he came out, you find this, he came out as Bobby with shorts, just no American flags, baseball cap, [ __ ] reading glasses, whatever. And I thought it was dope. The dialogue that he had with it, he played the victory. He said, you know, you know, we did win, he said, but this is not the time to gloat. There's so much stuff that we need to do. He said, all sides want to get to a certain place, but we have different ideas on how we going to get there. I thought that, for whatever people want to think, I thought that was showing an another side. And also I told him, cuz I would talk to him off and on. I said, you know what song you you should do? You should do Nina Simone's uh song um uh Misunderstood. Right? Just sing that [ __ ] But I know he wouldn't never do that because the base that really likes and res supports him might blow up or he's soft now. Point I'm making with even though with Tony, with the situation, I consider Tony a good friend of mine for different reasons, right? That's why I wanted to have that moment to say that, but Rob Schneider, as much as they say I took away from moments on that show, he took away from that moment. I wasn't trying to be a [ __ ] I wasn't trying to be soft, but I wanted to say I apologize cuz sometimes friendships got to be stronger than that, and that's where I was with it. And as much as I don't need the Kill Tony show. And this is what I always say about that show. I said, there's not That reminds me Kill Tony reminds me of the Def Jam era. Right? And when I say that, there was a platform for undiscovered talent, people that you've never seen, for it's such a spectacle like Def Jam. It was people that didn't have the skill set to [ __ ] go headline, but they was being seen. Same thing with Kill Tony. You look at what you >> phone on? Is your phone dinging? Shut that [ __ ] off. And you look at This is what I appreciate about that show for [clears throat] whoever likes it or whatever. It's a platform to get on. I've traveled around the country. It used to be, you remember back in the day it was like, oh, I need to be on Letterman. I need to be on the Carson or whatever. That is the I got to get on killtone. >> 100% And in some cases, there's some good and bad to that. There's some people that was ready for it. There's some people like, you know what? You had two or three minutes worth of jokes, you know what I'm saying? You're not ready. But it gave people some hope. When I was standing at the hotel the other day, three people traveled across the country like with the hopes of that, you know? So, I know how important that show is. You know, is it the fan base I want them to be like, "Oh, I can't wait to see him." But for me I always my whole career, y'all, always wanted to be around the people the places that they say the best comedians perform. When I started um when I was in New York, I always I wanted to get passed at the Comedy Cellar. Not because I wanted to be a cellar dweller. I didn't want to be the guy in the back [ __ ] just every weekend just sit back there telling war stories. I was like, "If this is where the best comics perform, I want to be a part of that. I want to be passed that." Cuz when I got passed in the Comedy Cellar, it wasn't a lot of black comedians working the Cellar. It was Greer Barnes. It was Keith Robinson. RIP, it was Wil Stephenson. Patrice. Patrice, Dave Chappelle. In fact, Barry Katz had a room, Boston Comedy Club. And it was black night on Sundays, right? The black comedians would look at me like they said, "Where you going?" I was like, "I got a spot at the Cellar." They were like, "How the [ __ ] did you get in the Cellar?" The way I got into it was put the work in, I hung out, got a couple of recommendations, and when it's time for me to showcase, I did my thing. But the minute I got passed in the Cellar, I didn't really care about working there all the time. I just wanted to be validated as like, "This is the spot." Same thing >> it. You know, same thing with the Comedy Store. Same thing with what you're doing here. It was that part of it. I get it. Um Greer Barnes, probably one of the most underappreciated talents in the country. But you know what? >> that dude for 30 years. He's a funny [ __ ] and he's been funny forever. You know, so funny that you said underappreciated because, you know, when you you know comedians that put the work in or whatever. It's a phrase that people use underrated, but then you got to ask who rated. You didn't use those words. You said under appreciated. But he is. I don't know. Sometimes you got to ask yourself. He's not underrated by comics. He's under appreciated by audience members for whatever reason. I think it's a social media thing. I just think he doesn't have a big presence on social media for whatever reason. He's a solid solid [ __ ] comic though. Always has been. And he's a solid guy. >> And a good dude. But that's another thing. That's just the era that we in right now and it's like and you notice it's even more so now. The most talented people aren't getting the shots if you don't know how to evolve. Well, it's not even just that cuz like look at Dave Not Dave Chappelle, excuse me. Dave Attell. Dave Attell I think is one of the funniest dudes who's ever lived. Ever. Ever. One of the best comics ever in the history of comedy. And mostly does clubs. He does like theaters and stuff like that. He should be sold out arenas all across the country, but he does not promote himself. He's not into social media. He doesn't do much other than specials. I don't think I think Attell would be petrified. Not that he couldn't do it and it was probably Remember with the show he had? What was it? The late night show. That was before anybody was doing it. Yeah. The late night show he go to bars and stuff like that. >> Uh-huh. Insomniac. Yeah, Insomniac. This is before everybody was doing it. I don't think that some people they like I think he's always going to make millions of dollars touring or whatever, but I think his comfort zone is like he's a not a club act, but he's a club comic. I think the best thing for him he ever wants to be is in front of 250 to 500 people. Well, he's awesome in that, but he does like when Bert does arenas, he does arenas and he murders in arenas. I think the the real thing with him is that he's just focused on his craft only. And the props that he gets from other comedians on podcasts and things along those lines is what really fuels his popularity. And then when people go to see him just word of mouth. >> Do you think some people might be afraid of a certain level of fame that they don't want to have? >> There is that, but I don't think he's that. I just don't think he thinks about it. I mean, he doesn't even have a phone. Like he he carries a flip phone with him all the time. He has a iPhone that he like stores away and sometimes he uses it. But when you text him, he texts you on like do do do do do do. Or you got to press four You know what it is though, Joe? You know what it is, right? Well, he doesn't want to be distracted. >> He's in the Epstein files. Yo, you got to have a distracted. >> a burner phone if you heavily in the Epstein files. No, I think >> He's only in the Epstein files cuz he was on a lineup that Epstein was going to go see at the seller. I think Dave Attell Luis J. Gomez is on that, too. That I like. I think Dave Attell is like I think Dave Attell's ultimate happiness is being on stage. >> phone off, man. Put that [ __ ] on silent. Just put it on silent. Do you know how to do that? You don't know how to do that. >> me like that. >> Put it on do not disturb. You don't know how to do that. >> It's [clears throat] off. It's off. Okay, keep doing it, you popular [ __ ] I think some people I think my opinion Dave Attell, his comfort zone is [ __ ] just being as incognito as he tries to be, it's just like oh, I came over this I don't know anybody that turns over material. It's certain comics you look at, Joe, and you like god damn. This motherfucker's constantly trying. Like when I work with Dave, he forced me to do that. Deon Cole is another guy. When I watch Deon Cole does like at the Hollywood Improv, I think maybe three times a week. He just have a Monday night and he just uses a workout, right? Me, when I go into a spot, I'm trying to beat the [ __ ] I'm trying to beat it up. So sometimes I get distracted on what I'm really there for, that's to work out new material. There's a such a that there's a different level where you just like, you know what? I could deal with the silence. I could deal with something not working. And when I watch people like him, there's another comedian in LA by the name of Malik S that doesn't have all that notoriety like that, but when I see him I'm like, "Damn, every time I see this [ __ ] he's working on some new [ __ ] and has the same passion." Everybody doesn't have that. That's why David Tell will always give other comics something to like try to achieve cuz he like, "You ain't going to see him doing the same [ __ ] It's always a flip." And that's what makes him who he is and that's why he gets so respected by so many people. >> Well, he's he's only focused on his craft. Whereas some people really focused on social media and promotions and they have a guy that films them doing a bunch of wild things and edits with music and >> I've never seen so many comedians have full-out production crews with them. Right. On an intro. I know. On stage. >> They think that that's what they need, you know, they think that's what they need to separate them. And it does get them attention. But what it takes away it it it does draw some focus away from what you're trying to do which is work on your [ __ ] and come up with new stuff. Whereas Tell doesn't have any of that. But with that said, it takes away, but then it also lets you know who the special people are. Right now, [ __ ] my goddamn um guy that services my pool and [ __ ] said he's got a he's got a special coming out. I don't know who doesn't have a special coming out. And the thing about it is like, now Joe, you know it, specials aren't If you really look at it, specials aren't special anymore. It's special >> word, right? Specials are a weird word. It's it's special. >> I got a new special. Like no other art form calls it a special. Like if someone like Taylor Swift puts out a concert video, it's a video of her performance. You know, a musician puts out a a video, it's that. It's like for a comic, we got a weird word, special. You know what special is now? What what you get excited about special if you If people still do that, it's who's putting it out. It's special people that do it. It's special people that like um they Sebastian, he's doing a special. You know what I'm saying? [ __ ] Tom does a special. It's special people where you know a special. And a lot of them now is just people that's doing 45 minutes worth of comedy. No beginning, no middle, no end, no point of view, you don't know anything about them. It's just like the same way they do photo dumps, it's just like joke dumps. Right. But I I just say, and I'm not People say Dave Chappelle's a butt plug. But one of the thing I could say, however you look at it >> a what? No, I'm Dave Chappelle's butt plug. I'm going back to That's what people, you know, they You You got to stop listening to what other people say. Joe, I'm segueing into a story. Is it about Jamie wearing a Fonzie jacket? >> [laughter] >> He's got them in all colors. He's got them in all colors. He's got a red, white, and blue one. >> and like people He took it off before the show. People get so critical, but at certain point people evolve. People that So, you know them a certain way, but then you talk about a person who's a 35, 40-year career. Like people like, "Well, this last special so-and-so did, it wasn't that funny." But how often How long are you going to just be like rip-roaring funny? Some people have a position where when they talk people listen. And I look at I use Dave as an example. If you look at all his specials, 20 years from now, right? You have a Netflix and chill day or whatever. If you play all the specials that Dave ever did, you would know exactly what was going on in the world at that time. You know what I mean? >> Right. You know what's going Some people put out singles, they got one or two jokes. And some people pull out put put put out albums. He's He's one of those people. Sebastian is another one and you look at like you see how his comedy has evolved. People get older, they have different perspective on life, and that's what you have to [ __ ] accept them for, but we don't we don't do that. And another thing, I don't know if this is prevalent in your community, and when I say that your community is a lot of people, but my community, man, it's just so much dumb beef. And I've it's only one white white beef I've ever known about, and that's yours. Mine? Yes. What do you mean? The beef that you had with the I don't even know >> Yeah, years ago. >> Oh, well, that was the same thing like with Cat. Like some [ __ ] just has to be exposed. That was a real problem, man. You weren't around the store back then, but it was a real problem. Where he had that special or that show rather on Comedy Central after Dave left, which he was basically [snorts] doing his version of Dave's sketches. And he was stealing >> Do you think it was his version of Dave's sketches or >> of [ __ ] was. Like the when when he dressed like the white guy and had white paint on his face and wore the white wig. It was basically the same character that Dave was doing. >> Yeah, but if you look at the history of sketch comedy, I don't think Dave was the first person ever painted dressed himself up to look like Yeah, but It was right afterwards. Right after. Same slot. Anything that came after Chappelle's show, they would have compared it to >> Dave was saying it. Yeah. Dave never talked [ __ ] about nobody. He was like, this [ __ ] is doing my show. Dave was saying it. Dave doesn't talk [ __ ] about nobody. Right. It was but that was the that was only one of the problems. The real problem was he would sit in the back room and watch open mic nights and take their [ __ ] Like when they would flash the light when he was in the room, so comics wouldn't do material. They would start doing crowd work. So, why didn't he get exposed before that? Why did it just come out then? >> Because nobody had the balls to do it. >> And then he had the balls >> Because he was famous at the time, and he was [snorts] doing And look at it cost me. I got banned from the store. I lost my agent, and I was famous. I was on Fear Factor. I was rich. I There was a I had a lot going for me where I could stick my neck out. But you came back stronger. I give another example like the same situation with Dave and Comedy Central and [ __ ] As much as he went through that Yeah. >> he took a 12-year hiatus or whatever you want to say. >> showed in that is that he's a real artist. Right. >> Dave just said, "Fuck it, I'm going to disappear for a while like a legend." He just disappeared. I remember when we I was hearing stories about Dave doing shows where he would set up a speaker in Seattle in the park and just start doing stand-up and people are like, "What the fuck?" And for no money. People would just show up and he would just do street performances. >> But you know what's what was kind of where he got it from. You you've heard of a comic, I'm pretty sure of it, Charlie Barnett. >> 100%. Yeah, we played Charlie Barnett on the show. I knew Charlie. Charlie was like, if you ever thought you were funny whatever, go This is what the art of Only people I've ever known that got certain level of success with that Charlie Barnett, Michael Colyar. When he used to live in his speech. >> Right. >> But people don't understand how with Charlie Barnett would like to go to a park, go to the center of Washington Square Park >> and get a gather around a bunch of people in a circle. >> It's a certain certain technique. Not only that, you got to hold their attention for one joke. Right. You got to get them involved, blah blah blah blah >> Yeah. >> and you build this audience up and then it's really for one joke. >> A lot of people don't know that Charlie got Saturday Night Live, but he couldn't read. >> Yeah, he couldn't and that's what gave opened up the door. >> Yeah. And and but but he was so gangster like when they wouldn't give him spots because, you know, he was probably a bit to deal with. He would go to the Boston Comedy Club and yell in there, "DON'T GO IN THERE! I'M DOING MY SHOW IN 5 MINUTES!" THE WHOLE [ __ ] club would come out. That's how much power he had. But then sometimes that we become victims of our own vices and everything and destroy us more than anything. That's why when people talk [ __ ] about like they say, "Oh, Kevin Kevin Hart didn't get out the mud. It's you got funny, but you know funny isn't everything. It's okay, you're funny. That's not Oh, so good that you got talent, but more importantly is your work ethics and how do you take your God-given talent and your passion and turn it into money? You know, you're into music and everything. You probably couldn't name a million saxophonists or whatever that didn't get the do that you could be like, "Well, listen to this shit." But for some reason they didn't have the business part and and and all that together. And I'm going back. I'm probably talking in circles now, but this what upsets me the most about uh my folks or whatever and these people that go on these platforms and talk [ __ ] about people. There was a comedian that was talking [ __ ] about Martin Lawrence, right? Well, I saw Martin Lawrence and Martin Lawrence in the casino, he's really it's not that funny. I'm like this, "Motherfucker, he's Martin Lawrence." Well, they didn't know him in the '90s. No, this person No, this No, this person particularly it No, if you just know Martin Lawrence, period, that's enough. Richard Pryor, before he passed away, when he was in a wheelchair, damn near rolled him out on the stage, sold out audiences. I followed him for 6 weeks. I followed him for 6 weeks at the Comedy Store when he was like that. >> Certain people, Joe, I look at it this business are made people. How dare you talk [ __ ] about this [ __ ] >> a good way to put it. He's a made man. Another thing, Joe, A legend. Yeah, you know, in this business, you can have a career, right? But you have certain times where you just ruled. You had 3 years. Martin Lawrence, film star, uh movie star, comedy star. He had one period of time for 5 or 7 years when it was just Martin everywhere. How dare you, as a person gets older, and whether he has a good bad a night or a bad night, how are you to judge? And you ain't doing [ __ ] How are you to judge a [ __ ] that When I was coming up, Joe, every [ __ ] black comic in the business wanted a audition. Everybody wanted to be Hustle Man. Everybody wanted to just get two or three minutes on Martin show cuz they knew that dude that would do their career. So, you judge a [ __ ] years down the road, right? Where they basically When Martin goes out, guess what? Martin not doing no tour saying I'm doing 45 minutes whatever. He's like, "Y'all want to see me? Guess what? Y'all going to see this young talent. You going to see this person. I'm putting people on." How dare you even have come out your [ __ ] mouth and talk [ __ ] about this [ __ ] How dare you talk [ __ ] about [ __ ] who talk [ __ ] about Kevin Hart? How dare you talk [ __ ] about a [ __ ] that was rocking with a dude Nate Nate Smith, RIP, passed away? I remember when Kevin Hart was the one and [ __ ] doing those comment cards. All right. All right. I'm doing e-miss e- e- email list. One person I I remember when [ __ ] Kevin Hart had [ __ ] 20,000 people on Instagram, no, on Twitter. And at a radio, he was like, "Yo, radio station, yo D, this is probably I seen the hard work. I see him not just come to [ __ ] New York and do the black rooms. I'm doing the black rooms. I'm doing the white rooms. I'm doing all this shit." How dare you I'll I'll just say this and I'll answer this. And ain't no beef for nothing. Katt Williams said, "This is what Katt Williams said about Kevin Hart. I I find it very strange that you just come from New York and then you have a TV show and a movie show and how does that happen? You were in New York." I'll tell you how it happens. You're on the biggest showcase in comedy. And you know what that is? JFL. Just For Laughs. Kevin Hart was a product of that. Mo'Nique was a product of that. Dave Chappelle was a product of that. No, Kevin Hart wasn't pounding the streets in LA, but he happened to be on a showcase. When you When back in the day, you do a JFL, it was [ __ ] leaving there that probably had $500 in the bank leaving with a quarter million dollar development deal just to do nothing. That's the era it was. I remember So, just because you weren't in LA doesn't mean you wasn't you weren't beating the pavement. And I don't care. In LA you got LA and New York, nobody as a stand-up comic grinds as hard as a comic come from New York opposed to LA. And the reason why LA don't have that many stages. LA don't have that many stages. They used to tell you all the time as a stand-up comic, if you if you're trying to be an actor or whatever, go to LA. If you want to be a great stand-up comic, bang it out in New York. And this was this was the rule back in the day, Joe. Let Hollywood call you. You just don't go to LA to sleep on somebody's couch. Some people had that story, but it was like you grind. And back then Everybody's got their own path, Darnel. You can do whatever the [ __ ] you want. Just work on your act. >> That's the point that I'm making. Yeah. It's just everybody's got their own path. The real problem in this conversation is what I said earlier. It's worrying about what other people think. The more you spend time worrying about what other people think, the less you're worrying about what you're doing. You less you're thinking about what you're actually trying to achieve. And I listen to what you're saying and I don't listen to what you said. And and the reason why I say that, every time I go into this rabbit hole or whatever, and it's the echo. It's like a a a a a rogue angel right here and it's whispering, "Don't read the comments." >> Yeah, but I'm right. I still read them. I know you shouldn't. >> But I I'm I'm stopping. But this is another thing I didn't know. >> [snorts] >> What I didn't know is that white comedians actually have beef with each other. I did not know or at least it's not uh you don't hear about it. It's rare. It's more rare and the ones who have beef are usually failures. They're usually people that aren't doing well. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. I'm exposing the industry right now. I'm exposing. I have an example so funny. And this was interesting. I was at the Comedy Store. Oh, you told me this. >> [laughter] >> So [ __ ] funny to me, son. About 2 months ago, right? I'm good friends with Bill Burr. You know, we did we had the I'm Rich [ __ ] Tour with Charlie Murphy, me, Bill Burr years ago. And I know Mark Maron. Right? I don't know what I found out is I didn't know Mark Maron the way white people know Mark Maron. Right? So, I know Mark Maron. Like when I see Mark Maron, I was like, "Oh, that's the guy that had one of the greatest podcast out. That's the guy that was one of the alternative comedy favorites. Mark Maron's special ba ba ba ba ba." So, when I see Mark Maron, I have a certain level of respect. Like, "Oh, that's the guy who did it or whatever." So, I was doing Andy Letterman's show for what Annie would or whatever, right? And I love that girl. Um and I'm in the green room and I'm smoking a joint. I forgot who sponsored this weed, but it was incredible, right? So, I'm in there and I'm cracking jokes. Bill is right there. And then Mark is over at by the side of the door and I'm cracking jokes with Bill and everything and I felt something did nobody was really laughing at my jokes, right? Then all of a sudden a whole [ __ ] argument popped off. And it was like it was white argument because it was so nice. They were so gentleman to each other. It was a whole bunch of, "Oh, yeah, but you'll never do my podcast." It was like podcast beef. I'm right in the middle. I don't even know I didn't even know that they had beef like this, but they were so gentle about it. But I tell you the difference between white beef and black beef. I never felt that I was going to get shot. Yo, I felt so safe. Yo, if anything, I thought it'd be like lawsuits the next morning, defamation of character, slander, but I never knew that it was [ __ ] Caucasian and on Caucasian beef like that. And it was entertaining. This is an example. Mark Maron was doing really well at one point time in his career and now he's not. So, Mark Maron had the number one podcast and after a while his podcast wasn't even in the top 200. It dropped off. Bill Burr, his career is took off. He's doing arenas. He's killing it. Mark's not. And Mark finds reasons to criticize other people that are doing much better than him. And he focuses on that because he thinks he should be getting more than he deserves. >> But do you think that's going back to being a provocateur? He knows if he talked his [ __ ] No, no, no, no. I think it's going back to being bitter and jealous and thinking about other people instead of thinking about himself and why people don't want to go see him anymore. He was upset when we left the Comedy Store because we took the crowds away. And it's like, "Hey, you were on the [ __ ] marquee, too, man." Right. You They're not coming to see you. And the reason why they're not coming to see you is cuz you're not doing well. And your podcast was in the top It was number one. And when it was at number one, by the way, this is what I always say about Marc Maron, he was great. Marc Maron was fun to hang out with when he was killing it. >> What? Because he was happy. Cuz he was getting validation. Because he had the number one podcast, we were friends. Like, I did his podcast, he did mine. We had a good time. I'd hug him when I see him. He like We had gone back and forth many times to having beef with each other. His problem was when everybody else started doing really good and he started dropping off. That's what happened. >> What This what I don't understand. Why can't people understand that you have a moment? Like I was talking >> Because he's a [ __ ] narcissist and he wants the moment to always be around him. He wants it to always be about him. And when other people are doing better than him, he wants to talk [ __ ] about them. And that's what I feel had a problem with it. >> think being a narcissist in this field is a bad thing? I for some reason I think that kind of fuels you to be the person that you are, to be determined to do and not give a [ __ ] about what nobody think. >> Well, having self-respect and having an ego where you care about what you put out, yes, that's a good thing. But making it all about you and not being able to appreciate other people's work is crazy because other people doing well can be fuel for you to be inspired and do better yourself. And that's a positive thing. And if these people are your friends and you love them and you care about them, you should be happy that they're killing it. And if you're not killing it anymore, you should try to figure out why. Because it's not like the door's not open. It's not like you're not getting on stage. It's not like you're not putting out specials. You should probably figure out why your podcast dropped from number one to not even in the top 200 anymore without anything happening. You didn't get arrested. There was no scandal. There was nothing crazy. You should try to figure that out. And he doesn't do that, cuz he's instead bitter. Bitter and jealous. He's always been like that. I didn't know about that. >> about Jon Stewart. And Andrew Schulz came on the podcast and told the story about Jon Stewart and Maron, where Maron confronted Jon Stewart when Jon Stewart got some television show. He called him a [ __ ] sellout. He yelled at him all this different [ __ ] Jon Stewart left the show, and they hired Maron to do the same show. Yeah. The same show that he was calling Jon Stewart for being a sellout. >> So, how do you go from that to Okay, for you to have one of the biggest podcasts at some point in your career, you had to be likable, or you think people just wanted to do the show because >> a very good pod- podcast back then. Right. The thing that killed Maron's podcast, my personal opinion, no hate, is that he has this rant at the beginning of his podcast that's not entertaining. I don't think it's good. And he the rant was long, and he would just ramble about himself. He was very self-obsessed. And I just don't think it was good. And I think that was part of the problem. It's also the problem was how he interviewed people. He had a very confrontational interview style, specifically with some comedians that he felt like were below him or that he could pick on. You would think that that style would work in this day and age >> No, no, no, no, no. People don't want always to be uncomfortable. They want to like you, man. They want you to be a good person. >> People want train wrecks. They want train wrecks for 15-second or 30-minute 30-second Instagram clips. They don't want train wrecks to be their primary thing that they're listening to when they're in traffic on the way to work. But the people that host these podcasts now, like I think people going to these podcasts now are like this, "This is going to be clickbait. >> We're going to go viral. Yeah, but that's they're not that talented. That's why they're doing it is cuz that's their only method of getting attention. If they were entertaining and interesting and fascinating, then their podcast would be about that. You know what? >> in what you're trying to focus on. What I try to focus on on my podcast is who do I want to talk to? I never have someone on and go, "Oh, this would be great. It'd be very controversial. People will [ __ ] hate them. It'll be crazy. They'll say wild shit." I never do that. My podcast is only about who do I want to talk to? That's why I have a lot of people on that aren't even remotely famous because they're interesting. >> Right. >> I find them interesting. I find what the book they wrote interesting, the documentary they made interesting. I want to know something about them. It stimulates my curiosity. >> Do you think that there's going to be a a [clears throat] shift? Do you think that these salacious interviews, these interviews with the provocateur, you think that >> think about it. That's my key. You know what's so funny? I would say this, you know what's funny about what you said? That I was with Dave a while ago and he echoed the exact same thing and I was having this conversation with him. He said, "D, I don't even think about that shit." Yeah, don't think about it. There's other things to think about. This is I've I've said this too many times. If people heard this before, I'm sorry. Think of your focus and your attention like a number. Think of you have like 100 points in a day to spend on things. If you spend 30 of those points thinking about haters or 30% of those thinking about bitter people, 30% thinking about other people that are doing better than you, that's 30% that you robbed from the 100% that you have to focus on your life. I have things to do, man. I have a family, I have friends, I have loved ones, I have interests, I have hobbies. I have comedy and podcasts and the UFC and all these different things that I like to do and I think about those things. I don't think about negative stupid things with people that have bitter angry minds that are concentrating on other people's success and trying to tear them down all the time. Because they're trying to tear them down all the time cuz they compare themselves to them and they don't like how they stack up. They don't like the fact that that person's doing better. They don't like the fact that person's more successful. So they try to take things either out of context or they try to misrepresent who that person is. They try to change public perception of that person to try to drag that person down. And it's transparent. The reason why it doesn't work is cuz people inherently know what you're trying to do. It might get people to be like, "Ooh, there's beef. Ooh, there's beef." Those are simple-minded people that you're always going to attract. But you're not going to change people's opinions of things. It's it's a trick. It's a trap that you're playing on yourself. It's a waste of your precious resources. You only have so much time in the day. My time I spend on things that I think are interesting or beneficial or things that excite my curiosity. And I think that is the way I like to live my life. Now, if you like to live your life constantly engaged in beefs and being filled with anxiety and stress and you want to do that, okay. But those are bitter [ __ ] people. I don't want to be a bitter person. >> life, could you have been a therapist? Well, I majored in psychology for the brief amount of time that I was in college. That was what I was interested in. But it was I was doing that because I was fighting at the time and I was trying to figure out how to manage my mind. So I was trying to figure out the inner workings of the human psyche. >> Do you think I know this is I'm not Do you think your success made you a a more calm person to not give a [ __ ] Well, it certainly helps, right? You don't have to give a [ __ ] if you have enough money that you could just like disappear off into the sunset and never have to worry about money. Cuz a lot of people are always worried about money and so you're always constantly in a state of anxiety trying to get more. That helps. It but it's also it's there's other things in life. I concentrate on my loved ones. I concentrate on my friends. I concentrate on things I enjoy doing, on fun. This This life is short, man. You and I are 58 years old. We're more than halfway dead. Why would you spend time concentrating on people you don't like? Like, there's one thing if someone's wronging you. It's one thing if you find out you have a business partner who's been stealing money. Or, you have someone who's lying about you. >> Dane Cook. No, I'm just saying. No, I know he His own brother stole from him. I know Dane is like this. YEAH, THE [ __ ] YEAH, it's very very interesting. And I'm at a place right now. I was um I was with Jon Hamm, right? San Francisco. And I had just did a show with Dave. And it was interesting he said something to me. He's in the back and he's with his wife and we kicking it. And he used to come out to summer camp and everything, hang out with us. I don't even say we like super friends, but we have mutual respect for each other. And it was interesting cuz we in the green room. And this is after I had just slayed this audience or whatever, right? And And I'm feeling good. And he said Donnell, he said, "What is it that you really want to do?" He said, "What is it that you want?" I said, "What kind of question?" He said, "No, I mean what is it you want? Is it TV? Is it TV show? Is it movies?" I was like, "John, I'm doing exactly what I want to do. For me to be able to wake up, not have to work for anybody, call my own shots, make a fair wage, take care of my families, enjoy my friends and everything, and it's me connecting with a God-given talent. Anything else is a bonus. I don't look at it like I need the private jet and everything. Certain things you like, you know, that would be nice. But, I just look at what this life has given me, and I'm appreciative of that. I know so many people that of my class, whatever, that aren't doing nearly as well as I am. Or, even the ones that are, that don't mean that they're happy. You know You know saying? So, when he asked me that question, I didn't think any bad of it. I was like this, I don't get caught up on looking at somebody they got this, they got that. I like this, am I happy? Am I comfortable? Do I get to do what I want? So, whether I tell people all this all the time, whether I get another film opportunity, whether I get another TV show or whatever or any of that, I'm living what some people's dreams are. Yes. >> And it's not my dream, it's my reality. Yes. And I also had to realize this is so easy for us to do. You can be so connected with somebody and even with um my situation with my connection with Dave and everything, I'm a huge fan of Dave. He's given me great opportunities and everything, but at some point in my life I had to say, you can't be caught up in somebody else's dream so much that you forget your realities. And my real my reality is whether I'm alongside of him or what I'm doing, I got to continue to be Donnell Rawlings. I got to continue to support my family. I got to continue to thing do things that I do. And it's so easy. You it's so easy for me to get caught up. I'm like, I'm rolling with Dave. We on a jet. We doing this type of [ __ ] But then I'll lose focus on who I am. And I realize for me and my career continues to go when I know how to make that separation. I do have Yeah, but the thing is even when you're caught up with Dave, you still love him and you don't hate him at all. You're not you're not jealous of him. You might get caught up in the wave because you're hanging out with one of the greatest comics that's ever lived, but it doesn't mean that it's a negative. And you know another thing, let me add to that. And I'm not blowing my own horn or whatever. Like you said one of the greatest comedians ever lived, right? If a person had a conversation with Dave Chappelle, people can say whatever. I'm worried about people think. If you ask Dave who is in his top five comedians, my name's going to come up. So, as much as people they always talk about they always try to pin me like blah blah this and everything. I respect the fact that I he respects me, I respect him. When we work together, we push each other. We make each other Whatever people want to say, we make each other better. And what other people understand is that like he's like truly my friend. You know what I mean? It's not like I just work on the show, he's my friend. And even when I Some of my fondest memories, especially when I come here, is when we was doing those [ __ ] shows. >> Yeah. >> When we was doing [ __ ] nobody was doing. When we were doing those lockdown shows, that was fun. Yo, it was so >> times. It was It was It's all It was already We already have a community. We all have mutual respect for each other. But the thing that made that so special was it nobody doing this [ __ ] Right. That's what made it And it really One thing about the pandemic, it made you appreciate life a lot more than before the pandemic. >> Yeah, made you appreciate freedom. Freedom. Ability to do shows. Yeah. Remember we did those shows outside and everybody was wearing a mask? It was so stupid. >> But we It did But we And they all got tested, too. We got They was I I was I had so much fun doing the pandemic, I was almost embarrassed to show the pictures I wanted to show, like faceless [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> Yo, No mask. We would take a pictures and people was like this, "Look at him. HE COULD KILL MY GRANDMOTHER." I'M LIKE, "All right, first of all, you did it, Dave did it." I was like, People was like this, "Oh, it must be nice to have rich friends to have testing machines." I was like, "You're absolutely right." It is. It's beautiful. It is the most amazing [ __ ] ever. They should have raped my nose for two summers in a row. When When we were doing the shows in the in the cornfields and [ __ ] But this what people don't understand, he took the opportunity That Village of Yellow Springs, he made it as safe as it could be. Like any place we would go, hotel staff, everybody had an opportunity to get Everybody had an opportunity to get tested. And I remember, this was very interesting, when the bubble we did one This was Bob Saget, RIP. We were doing these shows and I think that at before Bob passed away when he came out to Yellow Springs was hanging out with Dave and us and everything, it gave him some incentive to want to go back on the road to do He was just got really excited about doing it again. We we we did like 55 shows. The summer was over. The run was clear. We had no positives or anything. Dave extended the show another week and that week was when the bubble popped, right? And now everybody's like freaking out. Like, "Oh my god." These same women that was people's coming out there when they was getting flown out in jets, they weren't getting traffic, but Dave created this environment. He wanted his friends around. They was we was going to restaurants. We would have the whole spot. We was just doing all this stuff. Nobody was thinking about the possible consequences of that. And I remember this one girl was like, "Oh my god, I don't even know why I'm here." Then I looked at Dave. I was like, "Yo, man. Damn, we almost made it, man, through." He was like, "Donnell, it's going to be okay." He said, "You got to realize this is the reason why we test." When we first got our first positive, had we not been testing, it could have been crazy. And we got our first positive because dudes went to do somebody else's podcast and they didn't test. Remember that? >> remember that. That was the day I remember that [laughter] because I remember that scene. It was so funny. Yeah, that was here. Yeah. >> And um it was like I something was different because we had one positive and the you remember backstage used to be packed out, right? It started Yeah. >> getting lower and lower, right? Yeah. It was basically like me, Cypher Sounds, somebody else was in the green room, right? And then Big Jay came. That's one of my friends, good friends. Big Jay came back and he had this look on his face like it's over, right? And he came in there and I looked I said, "Boss man got it." He's like, "Yep." Right? And another thing Dave could have did This is why I respect his character. He could have been at that time he He have just been in a mask, went on stage, went back out. He canceled the show, but the funniest [ __ ] is the whole at Stubbs room is sold out, right? And then Cena comes back, and Cena was like, "Um I need you to go out there and tell people that the show is canceled, right?" I said, "You don't need me to do that [ __ ] [ __ ] Cuz the minute I It's one thing if I go out there, people going to be like, 'Show's starting.' Right? And as a comedian, I'm not going to not tell jokes. And then I'm like, "Oh, yeah, Dave not going to show up." But that was The crazy thing about that everybody at the Line Hotel, they was making jokes. Yo, they call it Corona uh COVID row. Cuz we had like the whole flo- had the whole flo- floor locked down, right? And everybody in our team got it. But it felt like a old school chicken pox party. You know what I'm saying? It's like we got it. We got it. When I tell you, man, what we did like it everything was like, "Okay, make sure you have your vitamins." All that type of [ __ ] But the beauty of it was we was like, you know, people was testing out like 8 or 9 days, right? So, we thought we was going to leave. After a while, we was like I was like, "Wait a minute. The next room is going to be in 10 days." And for some reason, everybody went back to being negative. We closed their more shows and we got the [ __ ] up out of here. But it was a beautiful time, man. It was a beautiful time. It was a fun time. >> alive, yep. >> It was a fun time. But it was crazy. And then we did that What that [ __ ] joint we did uh It was [clears throat] in Tacoma. Mhm. The Super Dome. That was wild. >> 27,000? >> Whatever it was, we broke the Tacoma Dome record. I never been in [laughter] a place where the laughter was so hard it felt like helicopters was It was crazy. >> It was crazy. It was crazy. This is what I respect about what you guys did. You got people saying they they doing arenas and [ __ ] but normally But that was pre-COVID, brother. It was pre-COVID? >> Yeah, that was pre-COVID. That was before everything popped off. I what I will say about a real arena show, you You the arena show where a quarter of the venue is being used for stage and every right so it ain't the true capacity. Right. But it shows you [ __ ] was doing it was it was in the round. Right. Well the wildest thing was walking through the crowd to get to the stage. You you've experienced this [ __ ] of that walk from from the UFC [ __ ] Man, I'm so grateful for your you guys friendship and everything and for me it was so special for me because I didn't sell a ticket. Nobody else no open so you and Dave sold those tickets right? But the best feeling for me Joe was when I go out and DJ Trauma be like you seen him on HBO's The Wire. You seen him on BMF whatever but simple line but you fell in love with Ashley Chappelle show and them people [ __ ] go crazy. I don't give a [ __ ] if you ever been in a fist fight in your life when you come through them tunnels you you doing this [ __ ] right here you feel like Tyson like just give me a robe just give me [laughter] a towel. I'm about to go beat these [ __ ] up and every show we had there was no room for being okay. You had to be on your game every time. Yeah. It was good times. It was a good time. Well that was when all that COVID [ __ ] went down with me when CNN turned my face green. That was because of a Nashville show that we were doing that we had to cancel. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's what that was. Yeah, we were supposed to do a show that weekend and I got COVID the previous week and I was doing an arena with Tony in Florida and I got COVID in Florida and then I made that video on like a Tuesday or a Wednesday. It was like the third day after I got COVID where I got over it and I was like you know I feel fine but we have to cancel the shows this weekend and that's when all the [ __ ] went down cuz I took Ivermectin. That was that was that was those shows that we were doing. He has the answer everything. Yo, if he don't have the answer at least he's [ __ ] trying to find it. It's so interesting. I whether or not I had the answer the crazy thing is I was better. I was already better. And they they they turned my face green on CNN. Like we got to see how crazy the media really is. Like they didn't want to hear nothing but you have to take this vaccine. >> And you have to do that. And if you didn't take this vaccine, you're a part of the problem. It's the I just don't as as devastating as that time was I'm just how is it just like [ __ ] [snorts] over now? Is it herd immunity? How is it just like it almost like immunity. It's it's yeah, it's also, you know, everybody who got it got it. You got immunity because of it and then also whatever variants are still left, they're significantly diminished. That's how viruses generally >> strain now, right? >> Yes. Well, that's how viruses generally go. They become more transmissible but less potent over time. Yeah, and that's what happened. >> I'm going to tell you there was a [snorts] time though, man. I even said, man, maybe it was just something about how people got along with each other. I was like we should do like once a year just have a week of just lockdown. >> [laughter] >> Yo, just so you can get it man I feel It makes you appreciate freedom. That's for sure. >> me appreciate nature, bro. I I bought a [ __ ] house in Yellow Springs because of I was like, you know what? Trees, woods I don't know if the streets can handle this but I became a bird watcher, bro. I watch bird I watch birds. You know what that does to my street credit? What? To know the difference between a cardinal and a blue jay? Is that bad? It's not the most Listen. >> [laughter] >> That's a blue jay call. I said I can't be in the streets talking about It was good [ __ ] If you can't appreciate nature, that's whatever. That's a [ __ ] narrative. That's ridiculous. Here's the thing. I didn't crash out today. Didn't crash out. I know people think I'm crash out king. It's not that. Sometimes it's that I just need to talk. >> on this show today? Yeah. What did I? No. No, you did you definitely accused Jamie wearing a leather jacket. >> Jamie did have a leather jacket. He had a leather jacket on, man. And I think he brushed his eyebrows, too. It was everything. I was like [laughter] I'd never seen this sexy side of Jamie. He had like a British accent. >> [laughter] >> He was like, "I think you want a book here on the show." It's all good. I was like, "Who is this?" >> eyebrows? I was like, [laughter] "Who the [ __ ] is this person, man?" It was something different. We We definitely went through something that most people will never experience in their life. Nope. And and most previous generations never experienced it. Having an a nationwide worldwide pandemic that everybody freaked out and we didn't. Not only do we didn't freak out, we did shows, we had a good time, we hung out together. Those after parties when we go to the line, you had a DJ, and we would laugh and laugh. We would laugh till 2:00 3:00 in the morning. I You know, I what girl I was so much fun. >> Girl I was dating at the time that she couldn't believe that she was like, I'll be like this, "So, what do you do?" I was like, "Well, I was at the line kicking it with Dave and Joe." What y'all doing? Just talking and laughing till 3:30 in the morning. They was like, "Get the [ __ ] out of here. YOU WAS FUCKING." NO, NO, [laughter] I WASN'T. WE WAS JUST on some bro-hoe [ __ ] It was just It was really fun. >> fun. And we we also realized how special it was that we could do this while the whole world was locked down. >> Yep. I'm telling you I was embarrassed to show pictures. My mother would call me, "You better be careful out there." I'm like, "Man, I'm getting tested." We got tested more than probably anybody in the country. And that's the crazy >> tested every day because I was doing podcast through the whole thing. >> I did your show during that one time. >> Yeah. And then we didn't I sat down before I got the results. The last time I was here and >> [laughter] >> you was like, "Did he get the test?" I'M LIKE, I'M LIKE, "THIS POLICE DON'T COME IN HERE LIKE, GET THIS [ __ ] OUT OF HERE." WELL, we definitely had a couple people that tested positive. We had to get them out. And I tested positive once. But the thing about it, to make it all taking those precautions, you could isolate it. You knew where it came and you shut it down. That's one thing. If you're not doing that, it's all over the place. Just think about it. If if Imagine if Jamie would have got COVID, then we would have never seen his sexy side now. Jamie got COVID? He got COVID before anybody. He got COVID really early on when there was no vaccine, no treatment, no nothing. He had to take a whole week off. Um [clears throat] maybe that's why he has the attitude that he has. >> [laughter] >> Yo, y'all getting all this sexy >> did the Kanye podcast. You You had COVID that week, right? Yeah. Yeah, he missed the Kanye podcast. Yeah, but I'm sorry, Jamie, if you thought I said anything that was kind of disrespectful to your character or who you are. >> totally false. No, it wasn't. I'm telling you. >> [laughter] >> That [ __ ] ponytail, I don't know what the [ __ ] he did about it at that time. >> Seagal ponytail. Slicked back. >> And not only that, but he put his hair back like this. Mhm. Almost like the like a Diddy party. That's how he started Diddy parties. Oiled up. Yeah, or I don't want to say that cuz I was Never mind. >> [laughter] >> I never went to a Diddy party. I have a photo, but I never went to a Diddy party. >> [groaning] >> Yeah, it's like I think people are going to be wiser if something like that happens again. I don't know. Could it ever happen again? I don't >> Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. There's a lot of people that think they engineered that whole thing. They wanted it to happen. Cuz it's the largest transfer of upward transfer of wealth in human history. So many companies went down. Look at Look what it did. Big businesses got made more money. Look what it did to Zoom. Yep, Zoom took off. >> Zoom cuz um I was I I had a show in Naples, whatever. I met this doctor that he wanted me to be on his podcast. And I was like, "How are we going to do it?" He said, "We can do it by Zoom." This is when it was only like for like business people. It was really like the nerdy thing. Yeah, that's what it used to be. Yeah. It used to be but the pandemic it blew it up. It was like now Zoom is like that's the best way. You don't want to talk to somebody on the phone they call you. Oh, I'm on a Zoom right now. It is so like in everybody's household and that [ __ ] blew up. So many businesses did the same thing. >> Is anybody using that anymore? Zoom? Yeah. They use it for an excuse not to talk to somebody. Yeah. >> do they do Zoom podcasts anymore? Do people do Zoom podcasts? I never hear that term. It used to be things like oh, we're going to do it on Zoom. I don't hear that anymore. >> other platforms exist now. I don't even think people discuss it but like Yeah, they had one one was like Clubhouse whatever all of these things. >> Oh, yeah, Clubhouse. Clubhouse was popping. Clubhouse is a big one. That was a big one where people were essentially doing podcasts. Like anybody could just like chime in and talk [ __ ] >> getting like a million followers in three days and [ __ ] like yeah. >> Oh, yeah, there was a lot of that and a lot of people thought that that was going to keep going. Like Clubhouse is going to be the new thing. I'm like it's it's just bad podcasting. And it's and it's what there was only up so many things. That that um that battle that the Versus battles that they do now and when they have like it's mostly it's been hip-hop and R&B. I think it was who was it um It was uh um damn Swiss Beatz and Timbaland I think. They started this thing during the pandemic. It was Versus, right? Where you have a artist versus another artist in like a competitive type of situation. They didn't win anything but it was just entertaining for everybody. And that went from like it was so low level like people was in front of their computers it was freezing up and everything but it was what everybody was doing. Now that's like one of the biggest things now. They did one at Madison Square Gardens like it's a big thing now when you want to it's just like a competition like you got I think that they had Cash Money and No Limit Records but it's very I don't see no white Versus but it's a popular thing and this started because of the the pandemic. >> Well, so many businesses started during the pandemic cuz a lot of people got laid off, so they started their own business. A lot of online businesses started. A lot of people quit their jobs cuz they realized, "Look, they could just take this [ __ ] away from me at any minute. Why am I doing something that I hate when I thought there was security in it? There's no security in it. I'm going to start my own business." Also, even like you would you are an example of um um of what happens when you finally realize that um you don't need Hollywood the way it used to be. No. Well, we figured that out a long time ago. We figured that out when the podcast started kicking off in like the early 2010s. I realized that. I was like, "This is I don't need TV shows anymore." We figured that out in like 2013, 2014. >> And Hollywood is not like it used to be. I'm I'm very old school guy, but I remember when when I first started, you couldn't make it in this business. You had to be in New York or LA. Yep. There was no producers going to They wasn't going to Toledo, Ohio. There was no way. This was big business. >> no comedy communities outside of New York and LA. No, not at all. Not a real community. There might have been like a good club that had some like Denver always had like good opening acts, good good good community. >> Works [clears throat] was responsible for that. >> it wasn't like a real hub like Austin is now. And that wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for the pandemic. People wouldn't have moved. >> They wouldn't have moved. No. And you brought a whole community here. As much as this place has always been for music or whatever, but I mean there's no way anybody can not agree with like what you did and what you made it appealing to a lot of people is that you could go somewhere else, get a better quality of life. Yeah. And everything like >> Lower cost of living, better quality of life, no traffic, nicer people, and no Hollywood [ __ ] The problem with the LA is always going to be poisoned by the the idea of going there to become famous. Right. That whole idea was it was permeated in the culture of LA and that fame was like the number one commodity. But back then it was that was the case when the producers >> But go ahead. I'm sorry. >> But the problem is that's bad for art. It's bad for your ability to produce [ __ ] You mean you got great comics that came out of LA, but that was in spite of what LA had to offer. Right. It wasn't because of. Whereas Austin, like the main reason people come here, first of all Kill Tony. Because like you said Kill Tony is one of the rare places where you can be a comic that's been doing comedy 3 4 years, I mean even just starting out but you got some talent, you can have a [ __ ] career. Yeah. Like a real career and it'll launch. Like look, you got Kam Patterson who's on SNL right now. You got all these people like William Montgomery, David Lucas, they're they're killing it on the road, selling out everywhere they go. Ari Shaffir, Matt Edgar, these guys I mean they have a real career now because of Tony. >> thing that they don't understand is like this is what I say and I I use use you as an example. Whenever you hear about somebody saying that they want to do a podcast, the first thing they certain names like I want to be Joe Rogan. And I said this before, nobody wanted to be Joe Rogan [ __ ] 25 years ago. They didn't want to put the work in. They want to see the accolades, the fortune you've built. They see that part but nobody sees the hard work. Even with Kill Tony, the the fact that during the pandemic when he could have let the whole platform just fall apart like we don't know when we're going to do it, he dug deeper and figured out a way I'm going to continue to do it. Nobody they nobody ever respects the journey. Right. And if you think about it Joe and I'm you're probably the same way, most successful people and I know some very very wealthy people, right? And when they talk about their career whatever, they hardly ever talk about the yacht. They have ever talk about the the [ __ ] mansion they got in Paris. You know they talk about it was just me and my wife and we drove a Toyota. You know, a Toyota Corolla and we was like we was down to our last 10 bucks and she did this that's the most interesting part of the story for most successful people and people don't understand that. >> Right, they only think about where you got to and I want to get to there too. I want to >> everything. I hear people right now, I want to be like stand up. I'm like All right, well No, when I was doing HBO's The Wire, right? This guy I knew, I grew up with he was like he This [ __ ] said, "Yo D what's the number to The Wire? I want to call them. I want to be on The Wire." Like there's a wire. Hey, is this David Simon? Yeah. I could be Omar. They don't I was like and guess what? If I knew the number to The Wire I wouldn't give it to you. I'm not giving it to you. I'm not giving it to you. I want you to get that busy signal. That's what it Nobody ever wants to respect the grind and they all everybody wants to rewards of the grind. What's not everybody. It's just people that are they're missing it. They're not getting what it's all about. What's what it's all like Kill Tony's a great example of that. I was there in the early days of Kill Tony when when Tony started out in 2013. There was no one in the crowd. There was no one there. It was a small show. You'd have a few comedians, you know, I I was doing it back before I was back at the Comedy Store where I was still banned. So I was doing it from the Ice House. Right. And he didn't do it thinking it was going to be the number one show in the world and he was going to be on Netflix and he did it because it was fun to do and and he wanted to do a great job and he wanted to make it better every week and he kept doing it and kept getting better at it. It's the same thing with this podcast. This podcast didn't make money for years. Didn't make any money for years. It cost money. But the most successful people are the ones like even with um when I first started doing comedy, right? I never You have some comedians that go out there like I want to do comedy. I want to get the money. I want to get [ __ ] off of it. Right? When I first started, I never The only thing I wanted to do, Joe, I wanted to be good. I was like this, if I'm good, all those other things that are rewards to that, they will happen, but I had to be good first. And here's the thing that I think, especially when you have these like social media comedians or whatever, the thing that that that the interesting thing about it, it's kind of hard to tell somebody to work on their craft when they're getting all the perks of what the craft can present them at an early early stage. It's hard to tell somebody that's only been doing it for 2 years that's making 50,000 or 100,000 dollars a month off of monetizing something. They're like this, you need to get better. Hello. The end result >> they don't have to. Like, do whatever the [ __ ] you want to do. If you just want to do that, do that. And also, some of them are going to figure it out anyway. Some of them are going to figure out, I'm I'm not getting better. I'll get better. I'm going to work harder at it. Right. There's going to be people that don't figure things out, no matter what you do in this life. There's going to be a bunch of people that have a distorted perception of what success is all about and what you really want. It's always going to be that. >> What do you What do you What is This is an interesting question. What is your definition of success? Happiness. Happiness and doing something that you enjoy doing. And something that's challenging. >> So, what is your definition of happiness? Friendship, love, doing something I enjoy doing, doing it well, doing it better all the time, getting better at it. You know, I mean, you you're and struggle. You're always going to have some kind of a struggle. And that struggle, hopefully, is you trying to be better at the thing that you're doing. You? What gives you This is an interesting question. What gives you the incentive to always continue to want to perform? What gives you incentive to always want to do Joe Rogan and friends when you could just sit back and [ __ ] just do whatever. >> It's fun. It's first of all, the green room on Tuesday and Wednesday nights at the mothership is one of the funniest times I've ever had in my [ __ ] life. It's so fun. We have so much fun there. There's Ron White there and Shane Gillis and Tony and it's fun. It's I mean it's community. >> like you're trying to get me to change my mind. >> our times. What you want to come on? The show is on the way. >> to Tuesday. What are you doing tomorrow? Come on, Donnell. What do you got going on tomorrow night? Where are you headed back to Ohio? No, I'm going to LA. Do you have a show? I got a son. Okay. Well, that's different. That's more important. >> But I can just give him some Roblox money. HE'LL BE ALL RIGHT. >> [laughter] >> HE CAN BE ON WEDNESDAY. I'LL GIVE YOU SOME ROBLOX MONEY. He'll be cool. Let me tell you, I might cuz Cam, I need I wish I would have even thought about it before. But I might I might cuz I haven't had that experience. Oh, come down then, if you can. If your son's cool with it, do it. If not, there's always another time. >> probably look at another time. And this is another thing about me being an older dad. Like my son is really age he could be my grandson. I don't have time to do all those instill values and morals and [ __ ] I'm like, this will candy shut this [ __ ] up. Yo, I'm like, yo, let's go to McDonald's or whatever. But yeah, I'mma say I would definitely consider that. Consider it. Yeah. But that's what I like. I mean, I'm just enjoying my life and I like to do things that I find that are interesting and challenging. And I like to have conversations with interesting people. And I like the fact that people enjoy it still. You know, when I first met you with you know, and I already I already knew that uh you had the ultimate platform, right? And I never this is me. And I don't know if this is what happened, but I was like, I never want to be like, "Hey Joe Rogan, I'm down here wrong some so and so." And the only respect I ever wanted to get from my peers and people that were doing it was like from the stage. You know, I always like I was like, if we ever make the connection, I wanted to be off of yo, this [ __ ] is funny first, not just like, "Hey, you know I rock with Dave anything." I think that that was what happened. I used to spend time in it and I never never did even to this day I don't, you know, I just look at it like the res- I just want people, you can respect me as a man and respect my character whatever, but at the end of the day, what I love to do the most is stand up. I want you to be like, "Yo, this [ __ ] puts the work in." And then we can build everything off of that. That's where the respect I want to off off I want the respect from what I put in the work I put in. And people can acknowledge that, then that's what builds my relationship with you. It's built my relationships with all of these all these guys, Bert, all of all of these all of these people that I [ __ ] with now. It ain't because other than anything other than like, "Yo, he's a dope comic." And then you can find out that I'm a good dude after that. >> Yeah, it's that and then after that it's got to be like, "Are you cool?" Right. Is is he fun to hang out with? Right. Yeah. Barry Katz said that one time. He said that in one of his podcast. It's one of the things that separate like who goes on the road or so-and-so is if you're a good hang. Yeah, oh my god, that's everything. >> I don't know how many people quote Barry Katz, but I want to share this story. You might be the only one. And you said probably the only one. Be- but I you said something earlier about undeniable, right? I remember when I first moved from DC and I moved to New York. I was doing the Chitlin Circuit, the black circuit. I was popular in the black community whatever. I was like, "I don't think this is going to be enough." I want to do the mainstream stuff. I want to do these other things, right? And Barry Katz, um, Dave used to host this comedy night at this place called El Flamingos in in DC in in New York. And Barry Katz saw me there one day. He was like, "I don't think I've ever seen a comedian that go in front of an audience that would ready to rip someone's head off and you could hear silence." You know, that's the control I had with the audience. So, we built sort of a respect for each other and um I remember one time I was at the Comedy Cellar and he was there and I knew that he was back then, whatever you want to say about him, nobody had a roster bigger than Barry Katz. Back then in like '97 whatever, he had everybody. Uh he at the list goes on and on. So and I and I knew he was a fan of mine and I said, "Barry, man, I'm trying to work these clubs, these mainstream clubs, but I'm having a hard time uh getting in past these clubs." I was like, "Could you make a phone call or whatever for me?" And he looked at me, he said, "Donnell." He said, "This is what you do." I'll probably do the worst. Everybody does it better better better Barry Katz. >> You cannot undo Barry like that. Yes, okay, I'll try it again. He was like >> That's just what you do. No, and slow it down. He said, "Donnell, just rip." Right? He said, >> Yeah, be undeniable. That's what he said. He said, "Just be He said, "I'm not talking I tell This is advice I give people." They say, "Well, I need so-and-so." I was like, "I'm not talking about have one good set and you have four bad sets. I'm talking about the consistency where every time somebody sees you go on that stage, you're blowing the roof off." And once you do that, you have that managers are going to come to you. They're going to hear about it. That's the one of the things a lot of people try to skip. They're like, "Oh, how was your set?" It was okay, but I can't talk to you unless you're just straight just destroying [ __ ] everywhere. Then you got other [ __ ] to work on. Yeah, but there's also a lot of people that are very delusional about how well they're doing cuz they want so much. They want it all to be about them. So they think they should have already had this, they should have already had that. Why don't I have a sitcom? Why don't I have a this? Why don't I have a that? And I always said, "This is another thing." Even with these lineups you do these shows whatever, always say that you have time to have a defining moment. If you're in a room, right, and for for reason the room is on fire. The club is on fire. Everybody is ripping. You probably won't stand out as much as that night when everybody was bombing. You seen rooms where Mhm. everybody come back saying they say that crowd was weird, but then you got one [ __ ] back there like this, "I don't give a [ __ ] what y'all doing." Right. I'm going to elevate this. Those are the times when you got a [ __ ] stand up. Yeah, but we used to see that all the time at the store. Like late night at the store in particular. Where like, you know, cuz the way the store works, the show starts at 8:00 p.m. and it goes on till 2:00 a.m. And there's a lot of people that get there at 8:00 a.m. 8:00 p.m. that are like, you know, tourists that are in town. And they sit there for the whole [ __ ] show. They came to see the Comedy Store. So by the time 12:30 rolls around, [ __ ] they've seen everything. And so you get this the low period. And then someone will go up and just tear that [ __ ] place apart with like 50 people. When I used to I was when I first started that um uh we used to have open mics, right? And the open mic list would be like 25 people, right? And they they [ __ ] the guy that was running it, they hated me so much because I used to talk [ __ ] in the audience and everything. And they would keep bumping me down, right? And my dumb ass never got mad, right? I was like this, "Yeah, they want me to headline, right?" 25 comedians. I took that I was like yes I didn't think about audience fatigue or anything. Oh boy. >> I just was like yeah. And it would be and but I'm telling you I think that was one of the things that made me strong because >> 100%. I was like I'll I'll [clears throat] I'm going to do what the next person There's one story and this is one of if you ask Dave Chappelle one of the dopest sets he's ever seen. I just so happen to be a part of that. It was at the Hollywood Bowl years ago, about 3 years ago, right? You know, just Is that when he >> got attacked? No, no, that wasn't that. It was like the year before. Okay. >> You know Jeff Ross Live Nation, right? >> Sure. So, we're doing um >> Shout out to Jeff. >> Shout out to Jeff. Um we're doing uh a show, you know, Hollywood Bowl is 18,000 people, right? So, show starts at 7:00, right? Jeff comes up to me. He was like, "Donny, I got some good news and bad news." He said, "What?" He said, "We're going to start on time. It's only but 700 people out there, right? Now, you imagine what 700 people look like in front of a 18,000 place, right? He said there's only 700 people out there. He said, "Well, I can let you start now or we can wait 10 minutes." I was like, "Jeff, it's not like 17,000 people going to show up in 10 minutes." I said, "Give me the mic now." Big ass stage. I jump off the stage, right? Dave and all these people in the green room. I jump off the stage. I go into the audience. I'm literally going to each person >> [laughter] >> in the theater. And I'll get you a picture. You can ask this. I'm going to each person. >> they wait for the people to show up and sit down? That's what I wanted to say, but they were just like, "The show has to continue." >> allow that. I never allow that. They've tried to do that before with me and they say we're going to have to pay more money if the show goes over. I go, "Then the show goes over and we pay more money. Get the [ __ ] out of here." But for for me, it was a moment because any other comedian, not any other, most people are like this, "Oh, it wasn't nobody out there." So many excuses. I jumped off stage. I was like, "No, I'm I can't be up here looking like I'm about to be auctioned off." I go in the audience. I'm going to each joint, right? And I'm [ __ ] killing. It's [laughter] 700 people in front of a 18,000 >> That's a great way to start a show. >> But listen, and I'm like this, and here's the [ __ ] up thing about this. Nobody's going to know about it CUZ YOUR [ __ ] PHONES ARE LOCKED UP, RIGHT? >> [laughter] >> YO, IT WAS A MOMENT. Dave uh Dave, everybody from the green room came out, right? And Dave told me to this day, he said, "If I was doing uh a class on stand-up comedy," he said, "I will use this as an example of like owning up to it." And it was so crazy, man. It was like And it was just it was crazy. I remember another time I was working with uh I think I was working with you. It was me, you, and Dave. And I think it was a time we was doing an outdoor theater. And uh I was supposed to be a break. It was supposed to be me. It was supposed to be I think you, Tony, or whatever something. Then it was a break. And then it was going to be me and Dave. But uh it was still daytime. Right? Where was this? I can't remember the place. It was still the Jeff he came up to me. He was I was like, "I already know I'm going to have to go on there." And I literally had to perform until it started getting dark. Oh, I remember this show. >> saying to myself, I was like, "Ain't no way." I was like this, "Ain't no way they giving Rogan." And they weren't the shitty ones. People just hadn't come yet. >> Right. I was like, "I knew I was going to even suggest." I was like, "Nah, we had these two halves, right?" And it was And I That was another example of okay, you got to do what you got to do. And I had to go up there. It wasn't the spot that I expected or whatever. But I was like this, you know, for the sake of the show. And I'm always like, "What do we need to do to support this?" And I had to We had to bring it down. We had to buy some more time. And then by the time you got on stage everybody was seated. >> It was dark. >> It was dark. >> That was San That was outside of San Francisco. I can't remember exactly where it was. I do remember I was there. >> That was California. That [ __ ] was fun. But I tell people all the time that I do slight mental. I was like, "Man, there's certain times where you got to do what the next person is not going to do. You can't [ __ ] about shit." And at the end of the day, you got to be a [ __ ] I know when I used to do these shows with Dave, I used to [ __ ] get the shittiest time like whatever Oh, we're at 30% capacity. Then I'm like, "Man, half of these [ __ ] not even going to see me." But I looked at it like this, "Well, the people that's going to see me, they're going to remember it, you know? And you just got to keep on keep on going. That's a good attitude. Yep. Yeah, that's healthy. See, I feel like this, very productive. This conversation's going to bode well with my mental health. Yeah, I think so, too. And I think >> Everything except the lies you told about Jamie. >> [sighs and gasps] >> You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to start taking [ __ ] videos. I wish I would have had it >> Yeah, I wish you did, too. >> And the thing about it was >> See, like, oh man, he didn't even have a leather jacket on. >> And thing he wasn't even talking to me. He was talking to me like, what is it? No, I mean, it was That was it. I walked up to you and you didn't even know who I was at first. >> [laughter] >> Guess why? WHY DIDN'T I KNOW? I NEVER KNOW THAT I KNEW I KNEW I WAS LIKE, WHO IS THIS FAKE ASS Jamie ass [ __ ] It's like it was almost like, remember when Family Matters, Urkel and then Stefan? It was two characters. They had the They had the like the geeky Urkel and then his alter ego, whatever. He was just this cool ass. He was the same person, but he was cool. >> Whatever happened to that dude? Urkel. >> Urkel. Yeah. Oh, he's been around. What's that? Selling weed. Is he? >> He was. And his weed is really good. >> a weed? Urkel purple. It's the It's the best. He got this joint he wrote and it's like some type of Italian noodle, the spiral noodle. He used that as a filter. But also, I spent a lot of time with him because he would come out to the cornfields, whatever. So, I've been seeing him He's got a talk show Didn't he get jacked? Isn't he like Is that him? Blue light. Uh I don't know. I heard Urkel got in great shape. Yeah, but [snorts] he's a good guy, man. But he's another one of those celebrities that I know that wants to do comedy, but don't have the heart to do it. Uh Always I was like, "What are you" He said, "No, no, no, don't do that." But he's a he's a he's a great guy. It's hard to start out already famous. That's one of the things that I really respected about Charlie. Charlie was already famous when he was starting >> know who started Charlie? Who? Me. Did you? And this is how it happened. When we were doing the Chappelle show, and it's safe to say like nobody was really making money. You know in the contract, when you in your contract, if your show just blows up, you got to stick to whatever you was getting for the contract. So we weren't making a lot of money doing the show. But I was like this, we're too popular right now. At that time it was me and Charlie. We was It was Dave, me and Charlie, like the biggest names on the show. So this was Mike Berkowitz, who's Dave who's head of William Morris right now, right? He was a young agent at the time, right? He was coming up. And I was like I told Jason, my manager at the time, Jason Steinberg, I said, "Man, we got to do a tour or something." I was like, "Yo, everybody's talking about I'm rich, bitch." I was like, "Let's do I'm rich, [ __ ] tour." Right? He was like, "It's a good idea." I said, "Me and Charlie can do it." At the time, that was only a two-man show. Charlie didn't have no time or anything. And I was like, "You know what? I want to do it." Because it was my idea. I said, "I want to do me and Charlie." I said, "We need another comedian." At the time, Bill Burr was not making a lot of money doing his stand-up. And I'm not disrespecting, but everybody knew he was going to blow. But that was early on in the career. And all Bill had to do was have a situation like he had in Philly. Everybody knew he was going to blow. Right. So I said, "Why don't we do a tour, me, Charlie, and Bill Burr? That [ __ ] would be hot." Charlie had never did stand-up. And I used to He used to always crack jokes and [ __ ] I was like, "Yeah, you talk a lot of [ __ ] But once that microphone, your ass You're a bitch-ass motherfucker." So Charlie was a guy like, "Don't threaten him with anything, right?" So this is when they had They had the Laugh Factory in New York at Times Square, right? One of my friends was doing a show there. I was like, "Charlie, yo, if we're going to do this tour, you got to at least have 10 minutes." He could have At that time, Charlie was so hot, people would have just yelled out, "Charlie Murphy!" For 5 minutes. He was the MC. We just needed his face to be there. And this was [clears throat] It would be Charlie, Charlie, Bill Burr, and myself. And Charlie had no jokes, right? And like you said, I was like, maybe I don't know if you guys understand how it is to be selling out as a open mic-er. Crazy. And he had to get his voice. And I know and I was like, why did he never do this? But I'm part of it was because he probably never wanted to be compared to his brother. Right. He never wanted to be able to like, uh that's his brother and he had his own style or whatever. So, we did this [ __ ] tour for like like uh a year. And then I saw him start to grow. Sometimes he took some hits, but he became Charlie Murphy. He became like, I'm not my brother. I'm a storyteller. He stuck to that [ __ ] And the one of the things that I would say that I really appreciate about what uh the Chappelle Show gave to Charlie Murphy, when Charlie Murphy passed away, Joe, nobody said Eddie Murphy's brother died. Right. They said Charlie Murphy passed away. So, that show didn't do And when I tell you one of the most stand-up original guys. All of those stories like, was it true? It was he told that was just part of the story. Me, Dave, me, Charlie, and Bill built a relationship. We did something that was spectacular then. But, uh Bill Burr used to [ __ ] with us. And I'm going to tell you the one things he would do. We would be on the road and we all we used to do was argue and fight and just [ __ ] with each other all the time. And Bill Burr, he did some [ __ ] I don't want to call this racist or whatever. But, whatever >> [laughter] >> it it was very Bostonian, okay? I'll say. But, what he did, I didn't know 2 years later Bill Burr would when we meet up, he would buy a [ __ ] like 12-piece of Popeyes chicken, right? And he knew me and Charlie would devour that chicken and we would be in a sleep coma, right? The next 15 minutes. And it was almost like he gave us sleeping pills and [ __ ] He would get his chicken, we'd be knocked out, and then he'd just go and just laugh at us and [ __ ] But, that time that was such a great time because you saw people's careers being born. Like Bill was already on a trajectory to be great. You know what I'm saying? But at that time, and this is when I say the stories that you remember, I'm pretty sure Bill still remembers like this was the first time that he was making like regular good money every weekend. You know how it is for be a [ __ ] headliner just doing $800 a weekend. Or or they give you a deal $2,000, and then you get a $500 bonus when you sell or give away 300 tickets. >> And you're not working every weekend. >> And you're not working every weekend. And then you got club owners who like your bonus is supposed to be a 300, and they be like, "Ah, couldn't give you that bonus. You was at 298." You know what I'm like? [ __ ] I could have bought that [ __ ] >> They lied to it. They lie about how many tickets you sold. >> They lied to And then they wonder why when guys become big and everything, they don't want to come back cuz I remember that. >> I remember that. There's a couple club owners that they can go eat [ __ ] And I tell people I tell When everybody talk about this, I was like, "Yo, try this. Try doing a [ __ ] tour for a year and a half, and every night you had to come behind Bill Burr." I had no days off. And I knew when I had a day off it wasn't I wasn't hitting on all cylinders cuz that's when they had used to have comment cards, right? >> [laughter] >> The comment cards like, "I DON'T KNOW WHY THE THE WHITE BOY DIDN'T GO LAST NIGHT." BUT THAT ALWAYS THAT JUST just that's that always kept me in shape. You know what I'm saying? It's like this, you don't got no time to play around cuz Bill and Bill cuz Bill was one of those comics Bill was like Bill would come Bill did the mainstream [ __ ] and he was one of the only white dudes who would do the [ __ ] most grimiest spots ever. And I'm pretty sure he's always going to be a great comic, but I think that that helped build his character. Like I think that was probably what made him be in a position where he go to Philly like yo, [ __ ] y'all. I just did Donnell's [ __ ] Hood Club in Brooklyn. Right. If I can handle that, I can handle that. >> Well, that rant in Philly was cuz he was doing the Opie and Anthony tour. So, when Opie and Anthony, their crowd were brutal. Yeah. Their crowds were [ __ ] brutal. >> kill Tony's before kill Tony's was kill >> Way worse. >> Yeah. Way worse. That they had sort of fed into that crowd. They they fostered that crowd. They called them the pests. But then even going back to what I was saying, in this career, sometimes you have situations that have a defining moment. And that was one of those things. I'm pretty sure everybody would have before Bill was throwing the towel and he was like [ __ ] that. Yeah, well well what happened was Dom Irrera went on and you know, Dom Irrera is a legend. How's he doing, man? >> He's hurting. Yeah, he's got his he's hurting. He's got whatever that neurological condition is, it's not good. I mean, I don't want to speak out of turn about his his health, but it's not good. Um, but Dom, they they booed Dom. They were just rough. They wanted you to fail and Bill went up and went [ __ ] you, you know, and he just went into this crazy rant. >> else had a moment like that? Who? Bernie Mac. Did he? Oh, on Def Jam. I'm not afraid of you [ __ ] Yeah. >> how you know how that was you know how that was born? Why? That first off, Martin Lawrence was the host and that night everybody was taking licks, right? And there was another it was a comic from DC named Butch Burns, right? He was very popular in DC. Butch Burns went on stage and bombed so bad. [ __ ] throwing [ __ ] There was nothing that Martin could do. You know how sometimes you try and then you like just whoop, you're on your own, right? It's like whoop-de-do, right? So, Butch Burns had bombed. The room is going crazy. Martin could do anything. Next on deck was [ __ ] Bernie Mac. Bernie Mac saw Butch Burns on the way out and he told him he was like, "Listen, man, hold your head up, man." He said, "The sun might not shine on you today, but there's get you'll have another opportunity to shine." And the reason he didn't plan on I ain't scared of you [ __ ] And then um, Bernie had a situation to go through because Bernie was on Def Jam before. He dressed in a suit and everything. He was looking like a Chicago player, but he didn't think that he connected with a young audience like that. So, if you even watch the way he was dressed from the previous show to the next one. Yeah. The next one, he had more of a hip outfit, had graffiti on the jeans. He was He was dressed up for that part of it. No idea, I ain't scared of you [ __ ] He did have the um, energy that he was going to do the connection he was going to have with the DJ, right? But what made it so explosive is that he said, "Fuck y'all." Yeah. He said he did his joke and didn't That's why we hear like, "I ain't Why was he saying I ain't scared of you motherfuckers?" It was because of the other [ __ ] He said, "I ain't scared of you motherfuckers." Kick it. Boom, boom, boom, but he said what he say he did and it was such the most simple stock jokes. But the rhythm >> So powerful. So powerful. >> The rhythm that he had and the fact that you knew that something was special would happen. That's why that [ __ ] audience looked was so [ __ ] charged up because he said, "Fuck y'all." I saw Bernie live once at the Comedy Connection in Faneuil Hall in Boston. I remember that club. He was on fire. He was so powerful. >> time I saw him at uh, Comedy Connection in Greenbelt. I used to do this club and it was a couple of people that come through and I was like, "These [ __ ] on the next level." It was him and another person that was like that was George Wallace. Oh, yeah. >> You know another person that was like that? Rich Vos. Oh, yeah. >> Yo, George Wallace, first off, I do George Wallace on the next level. I've never seen anybody go to the comedy club and the deal he had was 100% of the door. Wow. >> Everything. You just get your drinks, your chicken wings, 100% door. They had to give it to him. >> Wow. >> Um and and George Wallace, he was old George Wallace has always been an older dude, right? Somebody said, you know, his thing is your mama jokes, right? Somebody had did a mama joke and [ __ ] George Wallace ripped off about 30 mama jokes. I felt so bad for him. >> [laughter] >> And then Rich Vos [ __ ] Rich Vos [ __ ] me up because I never seen a white comedian perform at this club. It was a black club. Rich Vos came in there. He had a ponytail similar to Jamie's, right? He had jerry curls. No, Rich Vos had a ponytail. The same one that Jamie was wearing when I right? The same It was Rich Vos's, right? And I saw Rich Vos go up there and destroy this crowd. I was like, this white dude don't know what's going on. And he [ __ ] killed that [ __ ] I I had to You know, what we talk about joke stealing, right? I've never I stole one joke in my life and I apologize to Rich Vos. I was doing a show and none of my jokes worked. I tried. Yo, I tried everything. I tried everything and I said to myself, what joke have you heard? I didn't mean to steal, right? I borrowed it, okay? I said, what what joke you know that [ __ ] would kill this audience. And Rich Vos used to have this joke. He said, you know what they say? Once you go black, you never go back. He said, yeah, cuz your father won't let you back in the house, right? I stole that joke. I got him laughing. I got him back on track. And then I had to call Vos. I said, man, I'm so sorry, bro. >> [laughter] >> I said, it's going to get back to you, but I stole the joke. He was like, no, no, no problem with it. >> Well, at least you admitted it. >> Yeah, I did. All right. I think we we accomplished a lot. This was therapy for me. I think it's good for you. Stay out of the comments. I'm going to stay out of the comments. Remember that podcast we did with Reza? >> [laughter] >> NO, DON'T DO THAT. THEY STILL talk [ __ ] to me. Yo, I grabbed you at the end of the podcast and said, "That was great. Don't read the comments." >> Exactly. That was a long time ago. I've been giving you that advice for a long time. >> You did tell me don't But but but the part of that story people don't know is that I did my podcast early. I hadn't seen my son like 2 and 1/2 weeks. I was on the road. And I I I came straight there, straight to the podcast to do it, right? And then um uh you I was like you was like, "Yo, you want to hang out?" This what people don't know. This is the side you don't tell them. You invited me. You invited me. >> you. >> You did invite you. You said I thought it'd be fun. You said the RZA's going to come, right? >> Well, we were having a good time. We did a podcast together. We were hanging out and I said, "Are you going anywhere? You want to I'm doing a podcast with RZA next. You want to hop on?" I thought it would be fun. I thought it would be fun, but >> It was fun. I would like to tell my side of the story. We already did. We've talked this We've done this many times. Okay, this is >> every other podcast we do, you tell your side of the story. >> I'm never going to say this again, Joe. I was going to leave and I was like I was like, "Man, [ __ ] Wu-Tang, man. I'm going to see my son." Right? And I'm leaving out and as soon as I get ready to get in my car uh the RZA comes out and this [ __ ] said, "What's up, Ashy Larry?" And I said, "Fuck my son. I'm [ __ ] with the Wu-Tang, right?" And I didn't But it was a good time. It was fun. But did What people don't understand is before we did that RZA said, "Yo, yo, bong bong bong. I got this idea, right?" I said, "What?" He said, "I'm going to do these jokes. They're going to be He was trying to pitch >> jokes like he was going to joke and I was like, "Please don't do that." Right? I was like, "Please don't do that." And we sat down and of course it went I had a good time. But people are like, "Just You just ruined it. You ruined it for the RZA. You just ruined it." But shout out to the RZA. >> fun. It was a good time. >> fun. >> And thanks for whenever I call you, let me uh um can't even tell people anything other than yes, I'm on tour. Go to donnellrawlings.com get tour dates. All right. >> And here's my here's my [ __ ] A joke could be too soon, but it never could be too soon for a funny observation. And that's what you're going to get when you come to my show. All right. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you, brother. >> I'm taking this gun with me. Jamie, stay sexy, son. Stay sexy. Bye, everybody. >> [music] [music]