Mark Goodwin | The Bitcoin-Dollar, The Stable Coin Conspiracy, & The Tokenized Takeover

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And even though the fake green paper chase and the corrupt economic structures we're born into run our lives, many of us know surprisingly little about how they actually work. By design, they don't make it easy and excessive complexity becomes their best defense against regular folks really grasping how it all works. Most of us just see a confusing matrix of booms and busts, bulls and bears, default credit swaps, quantitative easing, commodities, securities, treasuries, and the list goes on. And if our ignorance is this bad when it comes to the system we've had our whole lives, what does that say about the new incoming digital overhaul that will dominate our future? Add in tokenized assets, blockchain ledgers, FedNow, central bank digital currency, strategic Bitcoin reserves, and a slew of new concepts, and we risk being swept even further out to sea. And dare I say, we miss what might be some of the best economic opportunities of our lifetime. Well, today's guest, Mark Goodwin, has quickly become one of my favorite voices on these subjects because he sees both the opportunities for the individual as well as the coming storm of cashless, technocratic, programmable surveillance coins, and has a much more nuanced and detailed forecast for this inevitable financial future than you're going to find most places. He's the former editor-in-chief of Bitcoin Magazine and the author of The Bitcoin Dollar, an economic monomyth. You can also find him contributing articles to Whitney Webb's unlimited hangout, and it's a real treat to have him here. The laser-eyed economic journalist, technocrat critic, and digital asset educator, Mark, my man, how the hell are you? Wow, what an intro. Amazing. I don't need to say another word. I think you covered it. That pretty much sums it all up. The opportunity, the risk, the confusion, the hyper-normalization. Here we are. Yeah. Super stoked to be here. Thank you so much for the great intro and having me. Of course, I try, and thanks for doing it. You're going to be talking to a very skeptical audience today that usually even gives me a hard time when I say anything positive about crypto or Bitcoin. But as you write in your book, this is the first time a new economic system is being formed where regular people at any point could get a seat at the table. When it comes to all the previous systems, it's kind of a closed-door thing, and that makes a huge difference. So there have been opportunities, and there still are, and the reality is that whatever we think about it, it doesn't really change the onboarding of all this stuff. So it's probably best to just try to understand how the economic situation is changing because knowledge is power, right? Amen. 100%. I think that's such a good point, this sort of equity, the fairness. And this is a good place to start, I think, when talking about a new economic system being built, right? Is that innately an economic system cannot be fair in that the whole point of money is to express like a volatility between two bartering partners, right? Like that's the whole point. So when you're using money effectively, you are literally acknowledging the imbalance that you have in your wealth or in your, you know, whether or not I have a good and you have money, you know, we're acknowledging the difference. And then we're agreeing upon some trade based on that difference that we both find fair, and then there's a trade, and then there's an imbalance at the end of every buy and sell, right? That's just innately how financial system works. I say all that, you know, to say that this idea of there ever being a totally equitable financial system, it goes against the very definition of what an economic system is, it has to have these, these volatile imbalances, you cannot have just everybody has $100. You know, it doesn't work, it just doesn't work. And so what is a fair economic system? It's you allow everybody to have access to a stable monetary policy. So not one person can come in and have insider information and insider leverage and pull some lever and we print, you know, and a ton of money, a ton of dollars, and it creates this imbalance and creates inflation, and you debase your dollar, right? Like, you have to have unmitigated access to some sort of stability of your financial system to then be able to have fair trades and fair barters. So I think, you know, to understand Bitcoin is yes, there's a lot of issues with it. And we'll get into all that today. There's a lot of reasons to be skeptical. And I am 100% like I get the dismissal of it because of the the fear, right? Like, I understand that of where we're going. But at the same time, you might miss out on a really big opportunity to actually, ironically, use this tool of probably the state to opt out of what the state is planning to do next. Because it gives everybody that gets in at this time, a little bit of access to that stable monetary policy, which is the first time in history that there isn't a monetary policy that's directly related to human action and political action. So we have an algorithmic, you know, protocol that tells us, hey, this is the amount of Bitcoin that comes out every block. And it doesn't matter the politics, it doesn't matter the demand. Every 10 minutes, a new block comes out, this amount of Bitcoin comes out. So we know the debasement plan, we know how things will will occur in 140 years, we know how much Bitcoin will exist. You cannot say that about any other monetary system, including gold, including oil, stock, dollars, anything else. Bitcoin is really the only one that you can say, you know, with with with pretty extreme confidence, mathematical confidence, that there will not be a debasement in the system at the protocol level. So that's a good place to start is just that's what a finance that's what fairness in a financial system is. It's just unmitigated access to stability. And Bitcoin can bring that. And it can bring a lot of bad stuff, too, as we'll get into get into all that. But I think that's a great place to start. So that opportunity really, even those the most afraid of this should really take it take a minute to think to be like, yes, probably a whole bunch of technocracy bullshit is coming. And the surveillance aspect of a digital ledger is scary. And I've been one of the more loudly vocal people about that in the space and out of the space. But also, I've been able to walk away from the state's statiness, because I've had Bitcoin in my pocket. And I've been able to say, I'm not going to get, you know, the vax because, you know, I can drop out of I went back to school, I dropped out of college with one semester left, because they wanted me to do this pharmaceutical product or whatever. And, and I was able to walk away, a lot of people didn't have that opportunity to walk away and say no, because maybe they weren't in a financial position where they could just walk away from one semester left of a degree, right? So I was able to use Bitcoin, which is probably state created to tell the state, fuck you, I'm not doing this thing you want me to do. So there's so many levels of hypocrisy and irony in this in this unfolding thing. But I'm very thankful personally that I had that opportunity to say no. And so I urge people to at least inform themselves. And I'll stop there so we can get into something. No, that is great. And congratulations on having that optionality that articulates why you are kind of a perfect person for this audience, because there is a lot of ignorance and anxiety about these changes. We see this big storm coming, this big digital change, and we don't know a lot of the details. And the only way we can help with that anxiety is by educating ourselves, because we can't necessarily stop it. So learn more about it. So you aren't so stressed about it, I suppose. But when it comes to your book, it clarified a lot of things for me. And let's start with some of the history here. So we know we had a gold standard until 1971. And then the money printers were truly unleashed. To quote your book, we can see how the violent monetary base expansion of the United States dollar could inflate away the purchasing power of an individual dollar hurting savers and those with dollar denominated positions. But why did this not hurt the United States' purchasing power on a net basis? Why didn't the massive inflation of dollars from well under $1 trillion in 1971 to $10 trillion in 2012 bring the economy to its knees and relinquish economic reserve hegemony to China or Japan, our biggest debtors? By the time millions of Americans found themselves without homes and the Occupy Wall Street movement fizzled out, the Federal Reserve was back to business as usual, raising interest rates and resuming sales of bonds to foreign entities and eventually to itself. How were we able to fight off the mechanics of an unhinged money supply decreasing its demand? The reality is that the United States never left an energy standard. We simply switched from a gold-backed dollar system to an oil-based dollar system. With the decree of 1971, the gold dollar was destroyed and in its place, the petrodollar was born. Really well said. Talk to us a bit about this because it's important to understand before we get into the idea of a Bitcoin dollar. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. And I would say just like a good place to start where we just started was this idea of a monetary, what money is for. It's a technology that allows you to basically scale barter beyond just trust of a really small group of people. And so money allows you to take an economic system that's probably agriculture-based is where a lot of this derived from, take it from being like a 7 to 12 person, people living in a literal area to actually being able to scale beyond to, you know, to bigger tribes, to, you know, groups of farms, to regional governments, to, you know, up to, you know, countries. And then, and then now obviously as it's digitized, you know, now literally global economy. So technology is the backbone of money. Money is a technology and it's changed a lot and evolved a lot like technology in order to facilitate, you know, more efficient settlement and better bonds of trust for barter. So the reason why energy money has evolved out of this barter system is, you know, you've heard that is, you know, money doesn't grow on trees. And that's a good thing because if literally our greenbacks were green leaves, it would be very easy to source. You would just go out to your backyard and shake, shake the oak trees a little bit and grab some leaves. And all of a sudden that money that you spent on, um, an apple on a bike on a, whatever, uh, you know, you've just replenished by taking 30 seconds and walking outside and shaking a tree, maybe raking it up, maybe putting it in a bag, but a pretty easy process to source more greenbacks, right? Energy money is helpful because it makes the, the sourcing of more units of currency difficult, which is good. You want the unit of currency to be rarer, to be scarcer and to be harder to debase. You don't want it to have zero growth necessarily because you want there to be able to be growth in the system. So you want some sort of capped mitigated inflation. Uh, but that one that doesn't run away and one that isn't really easy for, uh, you know, a political, um, governing body to say, you know, here's the cares act and we're printing extra million dollars or whatever. Right. That's bad. That's essentially going to, you know, they went to the backyard, uh, on Capitol Hill and they all started shaking a bunch of trees. And then, you know, there was, there was a lot of greenbacks all of a sudden. So energy money has taken a lot of forms and the most popular, uh, form of energy money. Um, ironically, a lot of people don't think of it as energy money, but it's the bimetal or the gold standard by metal being gold and silver being some ratio, um, between them 16 to one or what have you. There's been many different, um, ratios throughout history. Um, but then gold, you know, kind of in, you know, maybe in some of the lifetimes of our listeners, you know, they've actually lived under a gold standard if, if they're, um, they're on the, uh, the higher side of the age group, if you will. Um, but it, it's an energy standard because it takes energy to take it out of the ground. Right. I mean, it's not, you can't just find gold, uh, willy nilly shaken trees. It's, you know, you've got to spend a lot of whether it's human capital, um, you know, literally the processing, um, energy that it takes to, to extract gold out of a mine, out of the ground, bring it into something that's usable, that's tradable. Um, you know, it takes a lot of energy, different types of energy to create more gold. So when you have an energy-based standard and you link your value of money to gold coming out of the ground, you've, you've now sort of capped the rate of growth and you've capped the rate of debasement that your dollars can have. If $1 is equal to X amount of gold and I can only extract three to 4%, you know, relative to the total supply of gold every year, because it takes so much energy to pull out of the ground, then you have kind of a nice, like, okay, it's kind of hard to source this money and, and your, your savings aren't going to be debased, you know, immediately because it takes, you know, a year to pull out 3% of, of the gold supply from the ground. It's not that there's not a ton of gold on earth. There's tons. There's a bazillion tons, you know, under the crust. It just takes a lot to get it out. So the rate is, is capped. It's slow. So the gold standard worked, you know, pretty well. It really helped, you know, society scale and, and, and global trade to scale. And then of course there was the paperfication of, of gold, which actually was another evolution of the technology of money, which is where we have, you know, green dollars associated with a one-to-one ratio of, of a certain amount of gold in the bank, which allowed it to scale even further. Cause then instead of having to, you know, have a, a, a truck and, and fill it with oil and, and, and drive a truck with hundreds of pounds of gold. If I want to make this huge transaction, uh, I can use credit and debit systems. I can use physical bills and we can send pallets of cash to, you know, overseas or, or what have you. And you can actually scale gold, um, using paper, right? That was the idea. Of course, there's a lot of trust involved in that, that they're not printing more paper and this and that. So in 1971, officially the U S Nixon comes out and says, Hey, we're, we're severing the gold window. We're no longer accepting redemption of gold. Obviously a lot of things that happened before we got to that point, it wasn't just this totally out of nowhere. Everything's fine. Everyone thinks there's, you know, the, the dollar, the gold back dollar is, you know, this really strong, um, peg, you know, there was a lot of cracks in the system. Uh, you know, famously Charles de Gaulle sending a boat to the U S to pull up all this gold and bring it back to France. There was the London gold pool, which was sort of the, the, the Europe, um, you know, uh, exchange that, that tried to, to keep all of these foreign exchange currencies pegged to gold that collapsed because there was a run of confidence. So we're seeing that kind of happen in the late sixties through, through the very, very early seventies, this, this lack of confidence in the, in the U S's ability to redeem the dollars for gold. So foreign countries started pulling their gold out and redeeming dollars. So Nixon was like, well, okay, jigs up. They caught us. Uh, we're just going to stop that whole thing and just shut that window. And we're just not going to let anybody take their gold back. Um, and we're just going to stop redeeming it. And we're just going to enter this, you know, this world of fiat currency where everything is just pegged to one another through market forces. Uh, and there's no underlying energy commodity at all, right. There's no goal. There's nothing to, to stop the growth, um, and the debasement of the dollar immediately upon doing that, you know, uh, the U S gets involved in the middle East, specifically Kissinger kind of going over to Saudi Arabia after the Yom Kippur war and, and having this, this conversation and, and, and doing this, um, this handshake deal. That's very controversial, you know, kind of historically of whether or not, you know, how real was it? Was it signed? Was it a handshake deal? Did this actually exist? There's a lot of arguments, um, to be made in my opinion. Um, as just a guy with an internet account, uh, I think it did happen. It seems pretty obvious that it happened. Um, and when you look at just the market, um, structures and, and the way that things sort of went, um, I think it's pretty obvious that there was something that was keeping the U S dollar, the net purchasing power of the U S dollar, um, sound during the super highly inflationary period. And what was, what is that mechanism? And I would say it's the petrodollar as, as with a lot of other people. And so the petrodollar is just the next evolution of the, the energy money standard, which is rather than having it pegged directly to the rate of gold coming out of the ground, which again, in a good way limits growth, but for a government that's trying to outgrow in this post-war environment that wants to grow, um, you know, their dominance over the world, right. From an empirical standpoint, they want to get away from any sort of limiting of growth. So they moved to this petrol standard and they say, Hey, Saudi Arabia, you're the biggest supplier of oil in the world. We're going to give you military and political protection. We're going to come in and protect your oil fields, protect your trucks. You know, it's, it's a, it's a crazy world out there. We're going to set up shop over there very conveniently for us. We're going to protect all your oil and all we ask. Just very simple here. All we ask is that anytime anybody wants to buy any oil at all, you have them, you have, they have to, they have to buy it with dollars. And Saudi Arabia said, Yep, sure. Easy done. They get tons of military equipment. They get big military presence. They grow to be one of the largest, I mean, just one of the richest, you know, entities on the planet. And they're just swarming in dollars, swarming in oil. Um, and it's a really simple mechanism, but basically what, what we did was we offered political technological power, military power, um, to create a de facto monopoly on the sale of oil, which is something that everybody needs. You want to industrialize in the seventies, which every country in Europe and in Asia wanted to do. You have to get Saudi oil, basically not a lot of people have oil on the ground. It's, it's, it's not a thing that every country has. You want to get oil, you got to buy dollars first. And then the Saudis are getting tons of dollars in. And then we say, Hey, well, then you take those dollars and come spend it with us, buy our treasuries, buy, buy us debt, buy us stocks. And they create this sort of mechanism called petrodollar recycling, where they're getting dollars. The U S is selling dollars to Eurasia. Eurasia is buying dollars to give to the Saudis to get oil. And then the Saudis are taking those dollars and spending them back in the U S and we create this sort of flywheel of demand, artificial demand, um, for dollars that wouldn't be there in the first place. No one would be buying dollars in Eurasia. Um, if we didn't have this setup, um, where we said, you need, you want oil, you need dollars first. So because of this agreement, we're able to find tons of trillions of dollars of demand, um, or certainly hundreds of billions at the time, um, of demand over the next, you know, decades, um, because of this petrodollar system. Yes. And I just wanted to cut in here and say that I think this, you know, I don't want to get too fundamental, but it really did kind of open my eyes to what the petrodollar was. Cause you hear the term, but we were starting to print all this extra money. It's supply and demand. And we had to create a demand. So that's how it was done. That's the function of the petrodollar. I guess I hadn't really connected the dots as clearly as they're connected in your book. And then I just want to kind of fast forward through this because I want to make sure we have plenty of room for where we're going, which is, you know, where the anxieties are, but these building blocks to help us get there. But then you write by 1990, the U S dollar system had expanded to 3 trillion over the next 30 years. The U S had spread its power with maneuvers in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia. And only now are we removing the last remaining military presence in Afghanistan. By the fall of 2021, the U S dollar system stood at 20 trillion. So why did we move our military presence out of the region? Then seems like an inappropriate lever to give up in a time when inflation has been acknowledged by retail and a pandemic disrupted supply chains and labor forces around the globe. Why would we want to jeopardize our world currency reserve status by removing our ability to prop up the dollar's demand as global interest rates sat at zero or even below a Ponzi cannot simply be tapered. And we continually find ourselves mere weeks away from smacking into our debt ceiling and risking default. Yes. So we have this system that has gone through most of our lives with the petrodollar. And then there seems to be a change and it does seem a little counterintuitive. Talk to us about these decisions that were recently made and obviously the next evolution of creating artificial demand for the dollar. Yeah, totally. So I think the important thing to sort of glean from the history of the U S dollar system, like evolving technologically is that they will do anything it takes to perpetuate this system and kick the can down the road. And the way that they do that is finding clever ways to find more demand for dollars. And the way you create more demand for dollars is there's really like two ways. There's, uh, create more users. Uh, right. Pretty simple. Uh, there's more people wanting dollars than you create more demand for dollars. Sure. And then there's obviously interest rate manipulation. So interest rates are the, um, the sort of the cost of lending. So if you increase the interest rate and you raise the interest rate, you're telling someone that's buying us debt. Maybe we have to rewind a little bit. Dollars are created in your bank account. They are created by a, usually by a private bank and the private bank is buying treasuries, which are the reserve asset. That's actually the asset printed by the treasury and the federal reserve system. They're not really printing dollars. Um, you know, specifically they're, they're, they're printing these T bills, um, treasuries, you know, T bills are the short duration, but long duration bonds, whatever government debt. Um, that's what these bonds are. And so the, the fed is setting the interest rate of the bonds. The treasury is printing the bonds and then a private bank buys them and puts the, the, the dollar, um, you know, bits basically now it's all digital in your bank account, but they're backed by these reserve assets. So when you raise the interest rate, you're raising the coupon, the yield on the reserve asset on the bond that's backing your dollar. And when you have a really high interest rate, you're paying more people to store their value in dollars. So you're creating artificial demand by saying, I'm going to raise the interest rate to 5%. So if you give me a hundred dollars, I'll give you $105 back after the duration of the bond. If it's a 30 day bond, if it's a, um, you know, a 90 day, a three year, a 30 year, whatever it is at the end of that bond, you'll get that percentage. And obviously the longer the duration, theoretically, the higher the yield, but the interest rate sets, um, you know, the interest, you could think of it, the higher the interest rate to hire the interest in being in the system because you're getting paid more. So when the U S raises the interest rates, all of these foreign, um, entities or, or, or, you know, domestic entities are saying, oh, I can get a risk-free 5% by just storing all my money in U S government debt. Okay, cool. Well, great. Why would I do anything else? If I have a billion dollars, I'll go throw in here and get, you know, free, free millions, like for sure. No problem. So at the highest level, which is where we're at now, we've scaled up to the point where the dollar system demand is in the billions, you know, getting to the trillions. It's really, you know, these risk-free rates, these interest rates are what's driving demand towards the dollar, less so than like retail or trying to get more users, um, you know, by, by dollar rising the world. Um, so the, the U S basically, uh, you know, finds itself now, um, you know, removing its foot off the gas pedal of keeping up the, the petrodollar system, you know, by this military force at this kind of really weird time, as I expressed in that quote. And it's like, why would the U S do this when it seems like they would need to do this more than ever? The, you know, that brings us to sort of the pandemic era of, uh, of looking at the lockdowns in the monetary system. And there's a, there's a few important things to, to look at just as we kind of paint the, the, um, the parallels here, as we look at the 08, 07, 09, the great financial crisis crash. And I think the really important things to, to note about the, uh, 08 crash is that it happened in between two administrations, you know, Bush is leaving Obama's coming in. Um, and also very interestingly, Bitcoin is launched, uh, January, 2009 anonymously by this, you know, anonymous figure online, um, really as the U S dollar system is beginning its first, you know, really big foray into quantitative easing into buying its own debt. Um, and, and, you know, basically bailing out the world economy that was highly leveraged using these, you know, how do you create more demand? You know, you create more dollars by creating these highly leveraged, you know, house of cards that are, you know, debt leveraged on top of debt. And they, they built these things called collateralized debt obligations, CDOs, blah, blah, blah. They're trading all of our mortgages around packaging them. Then the whole thing blows up very interestingly, perhaps a controlled demolition. Um, the Lehman brothers Epstein stuff is very interesting. That's a whole other pod, but regardless, we have a big explosion, um, that, you know, is coming from U S dollar interests as the two presidents, you know, the two terms, the two, uh, parties are, are switching. Um, so everybody on the left blames Bush and the bankers, and then everybody on, uh, the right blames Obama and, and Citibank and his bankers. Um, and they print a whole bunch of money billions at the time, um, which was a ton of money, bail out all the banks, not the lenders, uh, or rather not the mortgage holders. And the show kind of goes on. And for some reason there's kind of seems to be sort of no Pied Piper moment, but Bitcoin is launched like at the froth of, of all of this. Bitcoin comes out then in fall of 2019, you know, six months before we hear really any whisper of, of a pandemic of a serious pandemic, you know, things were sort of strolling out in December and January that there were things going on overseas. But in, in August and September of 2019, we saw a failure in the banking system, in the reverse repo system, which is the, um, basically the, if a bank has a bunch of these T bills, these reserve assets, uh, but doesn't have enough cash and depositors are trying to take cash out, they'll do a repurchase agreement with another bank. And they'll say, okay, we have all these treasuries, but not enough cash. So we're going to lend you treasuries and you're going to give us cash. We're going to make our depositor whole. And then the next day, when we reset everything, we agree to repurchase those treasuries right back. It's called a repurchase or repo agreement. And so we saw a huge failure in this system, you know, months before the pandemic, you know, and the fed had to step in and put in, and instead of the banks lending to each other, all of a sudden the hot potato of this fractional reserve banking system that was playing with all of these things, everybody got scared and they stopped throwing the potato and no one would lend overnight. And so the banking system was going to collapse because the banks wouldn't lend the cash needed the short term to cover their depositors that wanted cash because every bank is insolvent on a fractional reserve. Right? So the fed had to step in and bail out the whole banking system again, months before the pandemic happened. Very interestingly, this all kind of happened in the shadows and Trump literally with his money manager, his former money manager, Larry Fink of BlackRock, they created this plan called the going direct plan, which they wrote in fall of 2019, which was basically a bailout for wall street of how we were going to get trillions of dollars from the fed and the treasury, um, you know, via these backstopping mechanisms to save the banking industry and how we were going to inject these trillions of dollars right to wall street, right to the banks and skip main street entirely to sort of fix this issue that they're having in the banking system. So months before COVID happens, they write this plan to give trillions of dollars from the, from the fed and the treasury to, to BlackRock basically to buy its own ETFs and its own, uh, you know, mechanisms. And that's literally what they did very conveniently. What do you do when you want to print a ton of money? What happens when you print trillions and trillions of dollars? Uh, you know, there's a highly inflationary moment. And, and what, what's bad about that is that there are, if there's a lot of velocity and the money's moving around a lot, you start to notice the debasement a lot quicker because if you print trillions of dollars and you just give everybody a million dollars in the U S then all of a sudden everybody has a million dollars. So why would you sell your, your gallon of gas, your apple, your bicycle at the same price? If you know, every single person in your neighborhood has a million dollars, you're going to raise your prices. So as, as demand increases, prices go up as velocity increases, prices go up. So they have to find a way to crush demand as they put in trillions of dollars into the dollar system. Very conveniently, all of a sudden a virus comes out and they have to shut down the entire world economy. No one is allowed to go outside. No one is allowed to work. Uh, they shut down everything, the supply chain, everything. They shut it all down in March, 2020. Uh, officially, uh, and they begin to print trillions and trillions of dollars and they give it to BlackRock and, and the likes. And yes, we got, you know, a $1,500, you know, severance check or whatever for, for them printing all this money. Some money went out to, to, to people depending on where you were, what state and what have you. Um, but they cross global demand, you know, overnight, a virus is a perfect cover for a, uh, if there's an issue in the plumbing of the financial system and you need to print trillions of dollars and you need to crush demand, which we saw happen in August of 2019, by March, 2020, the world is, you know, goes to sleep, takes a little nap. The world economy takes a nap. And what did we see in March, 2020? Uh, you know, what did we see in, in that era that's parallel to the 09 crisis? Well, we saw the Trump administration on its way out and the Biden administration on its way in. We saw the bailouts sort of mostly in the Trump administration, but you know, we, we saw them as sort of the blame kind of, of, of the COVID lockdowns, of the printing of inflation. Some people say Biden inflation, some people blame Trump, but there's a whole mess of, of who's actually to blame here because of, you know, the, the, the, the split of the, of the election season occurring during an economic crisis. So we see the same kind of parallels of the 08 crisis of that split where no one takes responsibility. Um, but this time we're seeing trillions of dollars printed rather than billions, hundreds of billions. And, and, um, and of course, in March, 2020 to just push further, this petrodollar dead, here's the new system. Um, you know, that week where everything shut down and, you know, Trump came out and closed the country down two weeks to stop the spread, the stop, the spread of what apparently dollars, um, you know, two weeks to stop, to stop the spread. Um, we see gold have one of its biggest losses in a week ever. We see oil, um, literally at one point, you know, it was a futures contract, which is not exactly, you know, there's some nuances here, but we saw oil literally go negative, right? In this futures contract where there was, it was negative $30 a barrel, uh, where basically they were saying, we'll pay you to take this oil away from us because there's no demand because no one's going anywhere. Right. When have we ever, you know, our entire lives, it's someone finds oil and we send an F 16 there and bomb the shit out of them. And it's our oil, right? That's like us diplomacy. Uh, all of a sudden there's like someone giving away, you know, futures contract again, but giving away oil and no one wants it. And, um, that's a, that's a state change. And then we saw Bitcoin go from, you know, being around $6,000 to going to, you know, about three. Uh, and then we saw the money printing start and by the end of the calendar year, um, uh, of 2021, basically within 18 months of, of that March low, uh, Bitcoin is 20 X and Bitcoin hits this all time high of basically hitting $70,000 of Bitcoin just under 69, 420. I think literally was the top, which is just another one of these. It's all, it's all a meme. Um, but we see, we see Bitcoin have this unbelievable run at, at, at, at sort of the onset of, you know, this crushing demand because of a virus. And so you could begin to sort of put together, okay, we're running, we're taking away, you know, Biden comes in and we pull out of Afghanistan or taking away military pressure from the Middle East oil at one point, a few months ago was literally trading negative. Um, and now this new fangled thing that came out of nowhere on the internet, which we all know was a DARPA project to begin with. Um, not that that, you know, necessarily means everything on the internet is a DARPA project, because obviously we are on the internet right now and I'm pretty damn sure neither of us work for DARPA. Um, but, uh, you know, we're seeing this, uh, this sort of change, you know, if we're looking at the charts, we're seeing a really big change. And the, a very important thing about Bitcoin that is really misunderstood is there's this halvening cycle within the, within the algorithm. So we talked about the issuance of, um, you know, new units of currency being bad for the net purchasing power of the, of, of the, uh, or the individual purchasing power of the currency. Cause if, if you have more currency, then there's less, there's more supply and then less demand, right? Innately. So Bitcoin has this clever thing where every certain amount of blocks, which ends up being about four years, uh, there's a step function happening, halving of the relative issuance of the supply of Bitcoin. So when Bitcoin first started right after the Obama Bush 08 implosion, Bitcoin comes out in the beginning of 2009, the second week of 2009, every 10 minutes, 50 Bitcoin is being printed. That's $5 million today. Back then it was literally worthless. Every 10 minutes, $5 million, $5 million, $5 million. You know, that would debase the currency pretty quickly, right? It's a highly inflationary currency. So 50% of all Bitcoin ever issued were issued in that first epoch at the very beginning where no one fucking knew what this thing was and no one gave a shit about it. 50% of the supply. Where did all that Bitcoin go? I don't know. Yeah. But Hey, someone's got it. Right. 50% of it. And then four years later in 2012, it cuts, cuts it down in half. So it's 25 Bitcoin a block. So 25% of all the Bitcoin ever supplied ever was in, was between 2012 and 2016. Then it goes down to 12 and a half. And so right as we're about to hit May 2020, so two weeks, you know, two months before March, you know, 2020, or rather, you know, two months after the shutdown of the world economy in, in March, 2020, uh, two months later is the scheduling of the next having of Bitcoin, which is a very important mathematical happening in that it's the first time the relative issuance of Bitcoin goes below the rate of the dollar inflating 2% and the rate of gold coming out of the ground. So before it was over 4% relative issuance. So it was actually inflating faster than gold coming out of the ground and faster than the supposed targeted inflation rate of the dollar. So mathematically, it made more sense to keep your money in these other currencies or other stores of value because Bitcoin was actually inflating faster than the dollar system and then gold. May 2020, that's no longer true. When that step function hits, it's now going below, uh, the relative issuance of gold and of the dollar. So that's an important, uh, you know, metric for, okay, well, this whole thing as we're talking about is about, you know, scarcity of the unit of account. Um, and we're seeing this really important moment where it's actually now mathematically issuing, uh, at a lower rate than any other currency and any other unit of value in the world. And in that time period, we see it go up 20 X and we see this, you know, huge embracing of Bitcoin on the global stage. Right. I have in my notes, not to cut you off, but it went from 3,200 to nearly 65,000. And so, you know, you're explaining this catalyst and of course hindsight's 2020 would have been nice to know a lot of this stuff. So we could benefit from it. And a lot of people feel like the opportunities are gone. I do want to get into that. Are they really gone? But because a lot of people only hear the first hour here, I want to fast forward to what we think is coming because a point where I think you really nail it. So of course, anyone who knows Bitcoin one-on-one knows 21 million coins. There's not going to be any more fine, but stable coins now are different and they just passed the genius act. So it seems like- Or about to. Okay. Or about to. And this is just where I think you're really nailing it. So just like we saw with the early internet where the government hid behind these private front companies, Facebook, Google, PayPal, you know, all these companies are positioned as private, but they're all propped up by military intelligence. It seems like we have all this concern about a central bank digital currency. And then this bill is in the pipeline and Trump says there'll be no central bank digital currency. Okay, fine. Yeah. Well, you say that's a red herring because again, what we're going to see is functionally the same thing. It's going to appear private, but it is backed up in the same way. In fact, the quote from the book is, we spent so much time looking for CBDCs that we missed the private entity stable coin monster right in front of our eyes. This is what I want to make sure first hour people get because it is how they're going to, you know, move to a new system. And it's not quite as clear as oil or gold, which we have a better concept of than we have a concept of stable coins. But in a way, I feel like this lessens the anxiety a little bit because people are talking about total system collapse, where we're going to be guarding our canned goods with shotguns on the front porch. And it's nice to know, even if there's a lot of problems with it, that there is some kind of plan, perhaps, and maybe even opportunities to know about the future of this plan rather than just the past of it. Talk to us about some of this stuff. Yeah, totally. I mean, great segue. Yeah, shout out the first hour people. Second hour people are going to have some fun too, for sure. But I do think it is, you know, really how, you know, right, you know, I think we kind of explained the gold dollar, the petrodollar, and we have described the Bitcoin part, but we haven't really said the Bitcoin dollar part, which was a, you know, a phrase that I coined in 2021, as I was sort of watching this play out. And, you know, go, let's go back to March 2020. The stable coin industry, which is now, you know, Besant and Lutnik, and you know, the guys running commerce, the guys running the Treasury, David Sachs, who's the former is a McKinsey analyst who, you know, really took PayPal from being a bunch of nerds, you know, with their palm pilots to like, no, we're going to scale this to like dollarize the internet. Everyone always focuses on the mafia, and they completely forget that PayPal, dollarize the fucking internet. But anyways, our boy David Sachs, that was his thing. So he was, he came in and kind of took to heal his, you know, currency speculation, and Max Levchin, the cryptography, and went from it being this pet project of palm pilots to being an internet money. He's now the crypto AI czar. All of them are saying, you know, without fail that, you know, the way the US dollar is going to keep its, its hegemonic status, its reserve currency status is through stable coins. And once this regulation passes, you know, trillions of dollars of demand will be unlocked for these reserve assets, these, these treasuries that the, the, the Fed and the Treasury print to back to back dollars. All everybody's talking about it. No one, no one can stop talking about it. Literally in the EO that Trump signed in like the first few days of coming into office, he banned CBDCs. Like two paragraphs later, he's like, we're going to use stable coins, the dollarize the world, you know, it's like in your face, it's so obvious, this dialectic. Of, you know, CBDC, bad, bad, bad, bad. And it is bad. I'm not, sometimes people like to say, you know, oh man, he's like shilling for CBDCs. Cause he thinks stable coins suck. It's like, no, I think they should all burn in a fire, but they, they created this Hegelian dialectic basically of creating this problem of like, we're digitizing money and the government is super, um, you know, there's this controlled demolition. Basically it's occurring right now of, of trust in government. Why, why would we let the government control our money? Um, so, you know, there's this problem and then the, the, you know, basically the, the solution or the reaction to the problem is fuck government money, fuck CBDCs. And then the proposed solution, the herding into the, you know, which is really the crux of the dialectic is, well, then we'll just let private banks do it. Bad central banks, private banks are cool. Um, and so we'll take the money power away from the government and give it to, you know, these FinTech ghouls that, you know, have basically taken over the government with the Trump administration. Um, but regardless, you know, this, this dialectic has really been smashed over our heads. I mean, literally, you know, Trump will do a speech and he'll say, you know, the government shouldn't have this power. And then 10 minutes later, he's talking about how sweet stable coins are. So this dialectic has been smashed over our heads. And we spent all of this time in the last few years in the COVID era, you know, talking about how bad CBDCs will be. And then a lot of people saw this EO and they were like, oh man, what a win. Trump is one of us. He he's banning CBDCs. This is so good. But really he, he set this up in his first term that the ability for banks to hold crypto and very specifically for banks to hold stable coins. So he put in this former Goldman guy who was a, uh, um, Brian Brooks, who had worked with Steve Mnuchin at one West bank, which was a bank that profited immensely in the 08 crisis. Then DA at the time, Kamala Harris was what I had on her desk, the ability to prosecute Mnuchin, um, and Brian Brooks and these people that worked under him. And she obviously threw the case out just to show you that the uni party will fuck you no matter what. And Brian Brooks comes in. He was a, he was a big early Coinbase guy, which is the, um, biggest exchange, uh, in America, crypto exchange, who holds the U S government's Bitcoin that they've seized holds black rocks, Bitcoin, um, pretty big deal. Uh, he was one of the early, like legal partners there. Um, he got put in as the OCC, the, um, the, the controller of the currency, which is basically the head legal, um, regulator in the banking industry. Um, and on his like last, I think he had like three days left of his term. He's puts out this bulletin, uh, that says that banks can hold stable coins and play with, um, um, you know, with digital assets. And then he gives a bank charter to this heavily associated PayPal, um, crypto bank. They have the first charter ever Anchorage digital advised by Max Levchin. Um, but regardless, you know, he Trump 1.0 set up the whole system for, um, stable coins to really proliferate, um, domiciled in, in the U S. Um, but we didn't really see that yet. So in 2020, there was like $10 billion of, of stable coins. It wasn't really a big market yet. So there wasn't really a ton of demand. Um, now we're hitting, there's over 200 billion. So we're seeing an immense increase in dollar demand in stable coins. Um, as Bitcoin is appreciating immensely, Bitcoin is now over a hundred thousand dollars a coin. And we're seeing huge amounts of dollar demand occurring via these private issued stable coins at the same time. So this brings up this crux of, okay, well, we're leaving the, the, the, Afghanistan, Bitcoin's pumping to the moon. How does the U S system wrangle its fingers around this, this beast that theoretically is defanging the federal reserve system, right? So what does the U S do? The U S embraces stable coins. And they say that, Hey, if we look at this, you know, when people talk about Bitcoin, they refer to the price. I mean, I've already done it three or four times today. It's always in dollars. I say Bitcoin hits a hundred thousand dollars. The price of Bitcoin is in dollars. It's like a dollar proxy in a lot of ways. And actually what happens is when you, again, we talked about, we need to create demand for dollars and there's, you know, how do you do that? Well, one of the ways you do it is you create a, an asset that, uh, is a neutral reserve energy asset, say gold, say oil, and you pump the price of it in dollars. And then you create more demand for dollars because this thing, this proxy that people need is now more expensive. So you need to get more dollars to be able to buy it. Well, that sort of happens in the Bitcoin system as well. So imagine you spent, you know, a hundred dollars on Bitcoin, you know, a decade ago, and now it's worth a hundred thousand dollars. Well, you've created, you know, $99,900 worth of dollar demand. Um, even though you only spent in a hundred and you just waited, and now if you want to cash out and go buy a house or do something, you cash out to dollars, you've created, you know, uh, basically a hundred thousand dollars of dollar demand by holding this neutral reserve asset and then cashing out into dollars. So the government sort of, I think either a created this neutral reserve asset, um, via their fintech ghouls, via PayPal, via these people that were really all there at the very beginning, or they just noticed, Hey, these, this anonymous cypher punk guy, this mythical creature, uh, put out this really interesting instrument that we can use to generate trillions of dollars of dollar demand. Either way, obviously I have, I have, you know, I have some thoughts, but either way, uh, you know, the, the, the government saw an opportunity to, to latch on to that demand and literally the, the, the item that they formed, uh, is called tether. I mean, it's quite literally tethering the dollar system to this neutral reserve asset to Bitcoin. And we saw tether go from, yeah, as I said, under $10 billion in 2022. It's now, it's now at about 160 billion. The extended stable coin space is about 200 billion. And Besant is saying when the genius act passes, we will see up to $3.7 trillion of demand being created by the stable coin providers, because they have to buy treasuries as, as said in the genius act, you want to play in the regulatory regime of the U S you want to bank partner in the U S you want access to U S customers. You need to have a one-to-one backing of all of your stable coins with U S government debt. Interesting. Yes. Yes. There it is. So just to cut in again, that's where I was a little unclear because with the petrodollar, it's very obvious that the bottleneck, the, the linchpin is Saudi Arabia, as you said, or just, we could say the middle East in general. Sure. But then in this scenario, it's a little harder to see the bottleneck or linchpin because it seems like anyone in the world can on and off ramp to crypto in their native currency. So it really wasn't exactly clear to me how this was a dollar play because of that ability. Like there's no gatekeeper, like Saudi Arabia would be the gatekeeper that says, we'll give, go get dollars first and then we'll give you the oil. But anybody can use pancake swap or Uniswap or any, whatever I imagine outside of the U S they're swapping to their native currencies the same way. So it didn't seem like there was the proper gatekeeper in place, but I guess it's the stable coin companies and the private banks. And so what, and so that, that gatekeeping element, right? Cause it's not a, the petrodollar was never a de facto or was never a literal monopoly. Right. Just heavily suggested. Right. Like there were settlements in other currencies. There were settlements in euros eventually when the Euro came out and whatever, they were just a very, very small amount of the volume of the global petrol trade. And that's exactly the same thing that we're seeing in the, in the global crypto trade is the vast majority of the pair to Bitcoin or to Ethereum or whatever the the coin is it's us dollar pairs. And usually it's through these proxies, these, these dollar stable coin proxies. And that brings up also an issue about Bitcoin itself is that it doesn't really scale very efficiently as a medium of exchange for billions of people because of the, the technical limitations of, uh, uh, you know, a distributed, uh, a block ledger that has, you know, they, they want to basically keep it. So anybody can run a node, anybody can audit the chain that makes the chain data size have to be really small so that you can send it over a cell phone. You can send it, you know, there's, there's these one megabyte blocks. Um, whereas if you wanted to scale the whole financial system on a blockchain, you could have gigabyte blocks where you have everybody's financial transactions in it, but then the only people that could meaningfully run a node that verifies the chain is someone that could download a gigabyte every 10 minutes, which, you know, closes the, the, the, the decentralization, uh, circle to like, you know, 10 data centers in the world, um, which is sort of not the point of having this thing that anybody can audit. That's the dialectic. That's what they say. But the issue is then that, you know, you create a need for more trusted systems to come in, to be able to scale Bitcoin, you know, just like we saw with paperbacked gold, you know, dollar, um, instruments that allow you to scale gold. We, we now have that with, with Bitcoin and stable coins. So you create all this dollar demand, you create a hundred thousand dollars from buying a hundred dollars of Bitcoin 10 years ago. Now you're sitting on a hundred grand and you want to, you know, spend that on something or do something meaningful. Um, in the day to day, you need to go into basically a dollar proxy because you can't, it's too expensive for everybody in the world to just use Bitcoin on the base layer. It's way too expensive. So it forces people and incentivizes people to find cheaper fees using these dollar stable coins. So the incentive of is really how you dictate really behavior in general, economic incentives is really how you dictate, you know, so much of, of human behavior. That's why I really focus on money because it's like, well, if we don't have a good grasp on what's happening in the evolution of the financial system, we can think we're as prepared as, as we are, and we can walk right into an incentive trap. And so stable coins are the incentive trap where they can draw people in with yield. They can give you interest rates. They can be, we can have, you know, yield bearing stable coins. Why would I keep my money in a bank? If PayPal USD is going to give me 3% on my money and I'm going to store $100,000 in that. And I get 3% in a year. That's amazing. And, and then you, then you go outside the U S dollar system and why would someone keep their money in the, in the peso or the one, if they can get 3% on U S dollars, you know, just by keeping their money in, in this stable coin. And so the stable coin creates this incentive to all you need is internet access to basically have access to the dollar. And I don't even know if you need that anymore, because I don't know if you saw this. I saw it today preparing, but, uh, Jack Dorsey just created and launched a messaging app that only uses Bluetooth and people have already been sending crypto over it. So if you're in an area with no wifi or signal, I guess, and you're just in proximity to someone within the Bluetooth range, you can send messages and funds without internet. Apparently it's so new. I don't even really know, but apparently it just uses Bluetooth. So just another interesting side note to this whole new future. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, it, the internet access is it's, it's, you know, mesh nets can kind of replace some of these things. You know, there were, there were bartering methods of, because basically we've, we've turned the economy into a data economy. It's, we're just simply sending like really large prime numbers back and forth. That's really what a Bitcoin transaction is. And so you can do that over any communication protocol, which is actually a kind of an interesting, I think that creates, that creates a really interesting segue, this idea that, you know, communication protocols now can exchange money because that sort of pushes us to where we're going, where, where the stable coin issuers are going to spring up basically. Because what the Genius Act really does is it allows, you know, anybody to become a private bank, to become a money creator. You know, we've entered this, this moment of, you know, private currency creation is back, baby. And you could argue some of that is good. And you could also argue that some of that is very bad. And so we're going to see this incentive push via these yield bearing stable coins be via this dollar access from just a smartphone. You know, the, the, the irony was Bitcoiners were always saying, we're going to end the Fed and central banking. And in reality, the Bitcoin dollar system does, but not the Federal Reserve. It ends every other central bank in the world, 180 or so of them, because if a central bank in the world can't, you know, you know, stop capital flight, if they can't stop the citizens of Argentina from going into dollars, if they can't stop the global South in general, Africa, you know, Eurasia, you know, wherever of getting dollar access, because all they need is an internet account, or I guess, you know, maybe even they don't just a smartphone there, they lose the ability for, for capital control. And so they don't, they don't have the ability to keep the money in their economic system. So when they print money, their citizens can take the money, and just go right into the dollar system, right into Bitcoin, right into stable coins, because they're going to be incentivized to do that, because they get a yield or because they get a better store of value. You know, in effect, it has, you know, this, what was supposed to be this great decentralizing force, has actually probably arguably defanged and neutered 180 central banks around the world, and has made the central bank in the United States, the most powerful, as it is already, but even more so a more centralizing force, because everyone has access to dollars now via stable coins, everyone can get access to debt, the US government debt, like the tokenization of it is what stable coins are. And so the whole world is now incentivized to go to these stable coins. And we're going to see large network effects pop up. The Genius Act allows stable coin issuers to be anything they can be, you know, what Elon Musk is trying to do with x, it's half AI company half, you know, he wants it to be the the half of the financial system, you know, that's something he's literally said. How do you do that? Well, you create a stable coin, an x USDX, or whatever. And you create stable coin rails via that are native to x, because all you need to do to transfer the value in these things is it's the same technology as a DM. It's just a it's just a handshake of, of numbers and letters, it's just a handshake of bits. And so you can make any data protocol, an economic protocol. And then you put huge, huge, huge, you know, just power into the social networks, which we all know, were created by, you know, DARPA basically to create consent for digital IDs, whether it's Facebook, or, you know, to feed giant amounts of data into AIs, whatever, you know, I think correct conspiracy you want to lean into, you know, these, these giant data networks, these social networks, you know, there's a reason why they came out of DARPA, because they serve, you know, the the the entities that be very, very well by incentivizing certain behaviors of humans. So we've we've gone through the Bitcoin dollar, we've gone through like so many of these dialectics, energy money, boom, boom, boom, really where we're about to go, and it's going to happen in the next week or so we're going to see the genius act, it's most likely we'll be in this session, see it signed by Trump into law. And when we see that we will see if Besant and Sachs and Lutnik and these guys were telling the truth when they say we're going to see demand unlock overnight. And every single fintech social network, every single bank in America, really anybody that wants to be as Trump and his family have demonstrated creating their own coins, literally at like on the eve of the inauguration, you know, anybody can become a money creator. And so we're going to see a new contest, a new war, a stable coin war, basically between the banks that have had a monopoly on private capital creation. They were the only ones that get access to the Fed and to the Treasury to buy these T-bills. Now we're going to see X and Facebook and Uber and Walmart and all of these people have all literally said that they are exploring this idea, competing with JP Morgan and Bank of America. And we're going to see sort of is the network effect of a social network enough to overtake the banking cartel. Are they all fronts for banking cartels to begin with? And sort of what effects does this have on control and on surveillance? And I do want to breathe because I know you got stuff to say and I know I've been ranting a bunch, but the blockchain aspect of this all has a lot of rightful, I think, to toss a coin to the dissenters of the cryptocurrency movement. I think they get a lot of things right. And when you make money digital and you create this ledger that all transactions are settled on, I give Greg three Bitcoin or whatever. If I send that to you, you're welcome. It will be published in the ledger in the blockchain. That's how a blockchain is. It's just a ledger that's chopped up into segments with a hash that makes it so that you can't change any of the blocks before it. So all the transactions are etched into, you know, cryptographic, you know, impunity. But it's public. So every transaction is carved and inscribed into this public thing that anybody in the world can download and look at. So whereas our old financial system had a ton of issues with it, at least it was mostly within a closed box. If I'm using cash, it's pretty much impossible to track the transactions. If I'm using debit cards and credit cards, surely the debit card, the bank, the, you know, the seller, the merchant gets access to that information, but it's still pretty closed. You know, the group of people that can see it, you know, there's, there's legislation and, you know, certain constitutional protections within the speech of settlement, you know, maybe 30 to 40 people or whatever can take a look at your, your wire transfer in the whole world. When you start settling all of this on public blockchains, it literally creates an environment of unprecedented warrantless surveillance, where anyone can download the blockchain and look at the transactions themselves. And it creates, you know, a really scary world where, yes, CBDCs are terrible and giving your government access to all of your transactions is really bad. But the dialectic response to that is let private banks do it so they can still seize and program and, and do all the bad things we don't like that CBDCs can do to your money. But then anybody that with an internet access can download and look at all your transactions. It creates kind of a really scary world and a new financial system. Right. And also it's like anyone can do the banking part, but the banks, the companies that are backed by the government have an unfair advantage, just like anyone can make a website, but the websites that are backed by the CIA and intelligence and DARPA run our lives, Facebook, you know, Amazon, all the, all the big companies, Google. So you could say that there's a real parallel there. Like now anyone can do it, but the people who are going to win are the ones who are backed by the government. So there's just really this wrapper on a CBDC that is just looks like a private company. It's like, you could call Google the CIA or DARPA, but you know, they like to put this little fun little wrapper on it so that people don't look deeper. I'm going to wrap a couple of questions into one, but I want you to kind of Nostradamus this for the next five years for us or so. I hear a lot of people talking about, I mean, you even mentioned that the AI cryptos are it's, it's coupled there. And I've heard people talking about this big investment in nuclear being there because you have to power the AI. I believe there's even a line in your book, someone are somewhat close to saying that like inanimate objects could basically carry out digital transactions in the future. And I don't know about a real use case for that. I don't know what that looks like in our lives. Like we have this idea of a smart fridge telling us when we're out of milk, does the smart fridge just pull from our wallet and get the milk sent to the house now without us really even facilitating a transaction, help us understand the roadmap for the next five or so years, because the uncertainty creates the anxiety. And if we can at least have some foreknowledge of what might be coming, it might be helpful to people. So help connect AI and inanimate objects in our lives in the smart technology with the financial piece and how you just see it rolling out in the average person's middle-class life. We're going to see an extreme expansion of like technologies that seem like kind of magic. You know, we are going to see the Jetsons sort of style shit happen here with drones and artificial intelligence. And it's going to be a little bit of a culture shock. I think everything is always overhyped until it's not, you know, so it's like AI and all this stuff has been overhyped until it's not. And now we're starting to see it. Like I'm starting to see my peers completely lose their ability to write articles because they're using AI for everything and the atrophy is happening. Just to jump in really quickly, there was that study that just came out, the first early study on people's brains who outsource everything to chat GTP. It's wrecking your brain. Stop doing it. Yeah. Just the same way as you can't remember a phone number because you put them all in your phone as mom, dad, wife. You know, I remember phone numbers from when I was in grade school, kid down the street, 4-6-4-6-2-7-4. You know, I don't need to call Kevin Jones anymore, but I could. So that's the same principle, but we are losing our ability to communicate, do anything. So stop using it this way. Sorry to interrupt. I just asked you a question. I interrupted you, but yes, go ahead. No, it's all good. I, I, I totally agree. I, um, I like, once again, the kind of like stable coins, it's like I empathized with the, like the convenience of it, but it's like, what are the second order effects in this case, literally like, uh, uh, like brain loss function? Like, no, I don't think it's worth it. I get why people think it is, but I think over time it's not, and I'm already seeing it. I mean, it's changing the way people are consuming content. Anyway, that's a different rant, but everything's overhyped until it's not. And then it's here. And I think that's going to be the case. Um, uh, you know, over the next five years, I think a lot of these things that have been overhyped are actually going to start meaningfully being in our lives. And so a good example of like the autonomous, um, inanimate object, um, becoming animate, I guess, is like a, um, like a self-driving car, like an Uber, um, a Tesla Uber, right? Tesla taxi or whatever they're called. Uh, it can show up and pick you up at your house without a human driving it and send you to your workplace or whatever, and do that, you know, a whole bunch of times. And then it's like, oh, I'm running out of, uh, battery power. I need to go charge. And it can take the digital currency that you gave it for your ride. That's probably native to the app. Let's say Uber makes their own stable coin. And then an Uber picks you up and it just takes it out of your Uber wallet, your Uber, Uber coin. And then it goes to a power station and it pays for itself to be charged, completely automated using the Uber currency that they've created, that you paid it. And then it goes and it picks up the next person or say a tire gets popped or whatever it needs. It needs maintenance. It can literally pay for the maintenance out of the wallet, um, that it holds the keys for. So things like that will start to happen and it will be kind of weird. Um, I was living in the Bay for a long time in San Francisco and I saw a lot of those things start to happen. I also saw a lot of them get kicked to the side, like Google glass and stuff. Like people were wearing them for two seconds and then someone got in a fight at a, at a dive bar and they got all banned from all the bars and whenever, cause you know, you couldn't tell if they were recording or not. And the, the social fight was lost and Google glass basically got shelved. Um, I think we're going to not see the shelving here. I think we're going to see drones and, um, autonomous things, um, and the AI of vacation of, of so much of education of, um, our content. Um, it's going to really explode. And with that, um, I think we will see people becoming way more comfortable with wearables with, um, not even just the screen in their hands, but screens closer to their eyes. And, you know, they're just that, that blend of, you know, we're going to, they're going to start kind of gearing us up for brain chips and, uh, you know, robo arms and stuff like that. And it sounds crazy, but that is where we're going. I think that is, that is pretty likely. Yeah. And, um, there's, there's probably some good use cases somewhere in there, right. For certain people in very specific situations. Um, but for the most part, they're going to kind of push it as this Uber convenience. Everything's going to be about convenience. You save this amount, it costs this. Um, and ultimately we're going to see our autonomy whittle away. There'll be less choices. Um, and you know, we'll, we'll just, we'll basically more or less get to the point where the, uh, economy is completely imploded because all jobs have been replaced with automation, not all, but a lot in our lifetime. We'll see like 50% of the jobs nowadays will be completely destroyed by the deflationary effects of technology. We don't need as many of the jobs as we have. So what will they replace it with? There'll be some weird, like, you know, you're, you're in the metaverse and you're watching an ad and then you make enough money and then they Uber eats, deliver you a burger and you eat that. And it's like, it's going to become a very strange economy. Um, everyone is already kind of a gig economy person that's going to accelerate. And then to the point they're basically literally paying us, uh, to, to stay at home and watch TV as we like idiocracy move into just like a total insanity in the political spectrum. So technology is going to play a huge role. The incentive structure of how you dictate human behavior to wither people away to the point where that is a reality. It's going to be through like conveniences, just the slow erosion of conveniences freed from the mental anguish of making choices. Yeah. Well, that's, so there's this crazy Kissinger, um, Eric Schmidt book. They literally wrote a book together about AI that Whitney Webb reviewed for the Solari report for Catherine Austin Fitz's, um, publication. And they talk about how they want people to use AI to offshore their cognitive ability until they no longer need it. And then they're dependent. And once they can create a class of humans that are dependent on an information source and a thinking source and an analysis of the information that it provides, they can basically get you to believe or think anything. We're already seeing that today, right now with the Epstein stuff, right? It's like people are literally coming out now being like, there was never evidence for Epstein. It was totally this crazy, uh, fan, phantom, fabulous, just story. And it's so crazy. You ever believe what were those binders? Well, you guys told me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You guys told me there were like hundreds of hours of, of, you know, CP. Pam Bondi said it was on her desk. What was on your desk, Pam? So now we're just in this total post-truth hyper normalization of it. And everyone is just at Grok. Is this true? I hate that. And we've, it's, it's gross. And we've just offshored and we will continue to whittle away. And this erosion of convenience will, will take over and we keep eating the carrot. And then it's just going to be a big old stick. And we're going to be in this technocratic 1984 kind of shit where there's going to be a separate class of people in stable coins and in these closed internet pens, uh, who really have no ability to, to move up in class, um, because technologically they're basically stuck down there. And then you're going to have the, yeah, the, the new elites, basically the people that have somewhat of a control and somewhat of assets that they held, um, during this, you know, crazy pivot in time. You know, I think the reason why we're moving to a deflationary standard, a Bitcoin standard is because they've pillaged everything. There's nothing really left to pillage. So now they want money to appreciate over time rather than depreciate over time because they're not buying up land from us or buying up assets. They have it all, you know, what, what more assets does BlackRock and, and co need? They really don't, I mean, some, some, some rare earth minerals for their batteries and you know, those things will play out, but very, very little. So they want a deflationary money. And then when they get the deflationary money and they've taken their technocratic, you know, throne, uh, it'll be very hard to attack those, you know, endurial drone protected citadels, New Zealand or wherever the fuck teal and co are building. It will be very hard to tackle those people. Um, and they'll erode the nation state down, um, to the point where it's just an enabling environment for these oligarchs and, you know, we'll be kind of a slave class of, uh, stable coin users. Um, it's dark, but I think that's, that's the path that they want us to go. So how do we not do that? Well, obviously maybe, you know, acknowledge that the tsunami is probably coming. A lot of money is going to be printed. And when that happens, uh, people lose homes, people lose agency, people lose jobs. Um, so be prepared for that, um, hold assets that you think will appreciate with the tsunami of dollars and then build an exit and build. I mean, build your own communities, find people that you trust in your area that grow eggs and, and have chickens and have meat and, you know, uh, you know, figure out self-defense and, and figure out how to print things and figure out, um, you know, people that you can trust, build your family and, and teach them that, you know, Hey, things could get kind of weird here. So let's be prepared and let's not go crazy. Let's not do the, the picture you painted at the beginning of protecting our, you know, goods with shotgun shells on the front porch at every, you know, car that drives by. It's like, no, there's still good people. People are good. They want us to be divided. They want us to think that, uh, you know, everything is not real. And it's, you know, we're in this crazy whirlpool of fakeness. It's like, no, there's plenty of truth out there. There's plenty of beauty. Humans are awesome. Make crazy art, go walk in the woods, throw your fucking apple wash in the lake and, and, and disconnect every once in a while, if not forever. Um, and I have to just speak personally because I got into Bitcoin, I've been able to do that. And I've been able to say, fuck you to the COVID inoculation. I've been able to say, uh, by when I had some editorial disagreements with my former work, I'm able to basically write at my own pace and, um, not really have any worries. Um, I'm not balling, balling or anything, but I'm like secure. And that was because of this technology that I also think has an opportunity to enslave the world. So there's, there's opportunity in danger. Um, and just like, remember to have fun. Remember humans are like way more important than machines and we're really powerful beings and we can do a lot of fun shit. If we get our heads together and build and we can use these tools, you know, they invert goodness. They, I don't think the powers that be are really good creators. They're really good inverters and we can invert the shit right back at them, you know? And if they want to use the blockchain to enslave everybody, we can use it as a ledger to write a whole bunch of crazy shit. And we can publish all of this information on the Bitcoin blockchain. We can expose so much stuff using the technology to publish. It's immutable. You know, there's, there's, we can use the technology of the internet, which is a DARPA project to enslave, to use it to connect and share information like this. Um, so there's so much that we can do to invert and play their games. And then when we don't want to play and we can fucking walk away, you're not going to fight the technocracy with the blue check tweeting fucking 35 times a day, go the fuck outside, eat an apple, get a bruise, have kids, meet your neighbors. Uh, what else can we do? That's what humans are supposed to do. We're supposed to create. Don't let AI make songs. Don't let them make paintings, fucking pick up a paintbrush, get a guitar, you know, like take, take the power back from the machines. Like you're not useless. You're, you're an all, all powerful being go have fun. Yeah. Hey, cheers to that. Although I do use AI to make songs, but that's because I never learned guitar. Well, Mark, I am glad we could do this and present this material to the audience. I hope that it made things more clear. And thus there's a little less anxiety, although we kind of ended on a very anxious picture of the future, but either way, you know, let people know what you're working on next, where to follow you, where to get the book, all that good stuff. Yeah, sure. Well, I hope we ended, ended on a positive note, but I, you, I agree that the five to 10 year picture is pretty dark. I it turned out of the skid right there at the end. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, well, yeah, you can, you know, ironically follow me on Twitter, um, at Mark good W underscore I N, which is, you know, I share, I've kind of published only, I tried to publish only on there. Um, I've been writing for them and hang out now for a little bit. Um, Whitney and I have, uh, been working on this chain series, the chain dot wiki. Um, so there's an internet version of it. It's five articles. Um, but we're turning it into a book. It should be out, uh, hopefully by the end of the year, um, going to be starting, I haven't announced any of this yet, but going to be starting a physical magazine, uh, and a publishing house with my old friend. I used to print, um, the physical magazine that Bitcoin magazine with my friend, um, Baza. Um, she's an amazing designer and, um, and printer. So we're starting a physical magazine that's going to be in the UH family, um, because we think that the content platform hopping, you know, sort of where modern media is now is just not going to work. If the internet does what we think it might do. Um, we are not paranoid people, but we are just prepared people. Um, so we're going to be doing that. So book magazine, um, should be very fun and very excited for that. It's, it's in my heart. It's what I want to do. And I think we just need it. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'll be writing at UH, um, for the foreseeable future. Um, yeah, that's about it. Love it. Love it. Obviously you're busy and this was a lot of fun. Hopefully you'll come back every so often and, uh, set me straight. Any friend of Zorax is a friend of mine. You know that, but thank you and take care. Cheers. And that's the way the cookie crumbles or the country. I'm not really sure, but I definitely liked this interview. I'd be happy to talk to Mark every so often so that we get updates on this part of the world. Cause we don't have a great stable of financial guests. I do think that's a weak point in my overall bench strength. Sure. We know about the federal reserve and fractional reserve banking, but that is the old world. And when it comes to the details of the new economic reality and the economic health of the country and the financial games going on geopolitically and all that, I would like to find the guy for those kinds of updates and maybe it is Mark, but the problem is generally that it's hard to find the right person with a high degree of conventional financial literacy, but also the conspiratorial mindset. There is this libertarian gold bug archetype that we have in this subculture. But even among those guys, I just find a lot of them circling around the same ideas and shilling their financial products a little aggressively. And I listened to a couple of those interviews and there's not even much analysis going on. So I am open to suggestions though. Let me know. And yes, I'm standing for this one. I think this is a better setup. I don't really like my printer showing in these videos. That's odd. I do think I tried to make my office nice, but it's hard to compete with what I see going on out there. Some really nice setups. But anyway, Mark really knows where the ball is going as well as where it's been. So maybe that is all we need. I certainly like the level headed approach to Bitcoin and crypto. Its use cases are as wide as the internet itself. I'm totally fine saying it was an intelligence project gone live. So were eight of the top 10 internet companies. It hasn't stopped many people from using them. So it is what it is. The algorithm and the wallet and the anonymous creator, that's three sketchy elements, three strikes and you're out, right? Plus it all got started in the dark web drug trade. Is that some magical place free from intelligence access and influence? I doubt it. I think about doing more with the dark web too, from time to time. And then I talk myself out of it. I would like a dark web guy. Actually, let's put that on the list too. When the news cycle headlines say, Oh, X, Y, or Z has been released on the dark web. I need a guy to verify that for us and relay the message without actually getting ourselves that close to the material. But we do want to know if those claims are real because they constantly come up and no one's really verifying. So either way getting off track here, but I thought this was a great interview. I think we maybe went a little too deep on the history of the dollar and we could have fast forwarded further up the current timeline. I don't really mind too much because it's all a good context and I just find him easy to listen to, but I'm watching the clock as always. I saw us get into that 40 minute mark and I could tell we weren't going to get to where I hoped we would get to before the free plus split, but I can only do so much. That's why you should just be a plus member anyway. Right. In the second hour, we did get deeper into the details of the new pivot and what it means, the intersection of AI and finance, and some ways we might see it rolled out in the near future. Some opportunities and risks in cryptocurrency. Not to say if you can't beat them, join them, but don't you wish you invested in the early internet? We got to eat too. So the machine is going to do what it does because that's the game always, but we could use some of the knowledge we've cultivated to create a little wealth and opportunity for ourselves. Maybe I don't think anyone says, well, thank God I didn't invest in the early internet because it's just a DARPA project. No. So this is how the situation is. All the tools are bloody as I've heard Gordon say before, and you're going to participate one way or another. You might as well use insights to be forward thinking. So we got into some of that. And also a couple strategies for individuals trying to navigate and prepare for the big societal upheaval. And I should also say, we recorded this like 10 days ago and Bitcoin rallied right after hitting new highs. Today it's all about XRP and Ethereum. I even mentioned that in the show that these are the five currencies that are going to be in the reserve. So think about that. When the president, who's pretty damn corrupt, has a side business investing heavily in crypto and buys like a couple million dollars in Ethereum, and then it goes from 2600 to 3600, that shouldn't surprise anyone. But did anyone use the knowledge they had? You know, hindsight's 2020 with this kind of stuff. So I don't really mean to blame anybody, but yeah, it's crypto week. Apparently news is moving fast, but I do hope you feel a little more comfortable understanding the game behind the game now in the realm of digital finance and this big transition. And maybe now you can read between the lines of some of the headlines and propaganda a bit easier than before. I still think back to the last time we talked to Gordon, and I've still got that ringing in my ears about World War III throughout 2026 and 27, and a U.S. Civil War that breaks up the 50 states permanently. And so there is that. But also maybe we feel a tad bit better about total freefall collapse. At least there seems to be some kind of plan for the debt issue. And it may be a long shot, but it might keep the hot potato in the air a little bit longer. And I guess that is what it is. If they're winning the game of monopoly, right, they have as much incentive as anyone to extend the game when the game ends and everyone gives up like your advantage goes away too. So that's just kind of my mindset. Like I try to have one foot in one foot out. I've always kind of said that I want everything to be better. But when people actively root for total collapse, I don't think they have really thought that through. I'd like a rebalancing. And the silver lining to me is that the corruption and theft and embezzlement is so bad that if we just got rid of maybe half of it and then reduced military spending 40 percent for just like five years, we actually could right the ship. I mean, who am I to say? But I do get that impression, you know, that the corruption is so bad that just even just stopping the skim for a little while would be enough. But either way, this is also a stretch, I know. And as much as I love the field, I'm not exactly synchromystically inclined. But we recorded this the week that Superman came out, okay? And Bitcoin hit 112 right then, the new all-time high on Wednesday, the day after that. Now it's up to 120. So 112 seems low. But this is obviously the biggest run-up it's ever had. And so I just thought it was interesting that Superman is out, Superman reviews start coming out. And what's the big gimmicky play in the new Superman movie? Well, what is the very first thing we saw in the very first announcement trailer for Superman? His dog, Crypto. Specifically, Crypto saving Superman. Symbolically, Crypto saving America. Because we all know Superman is thought of as the embodiment of America. So I think that's kind of interesting. I guess I got to talk to Alex Fulton about how interesting it might actually be. But, you know, whatever. I hear the movie's fine. Not great. Not that bad. But I'm interested to see it just because I like to see a bright color palette again. Everything's been so dark and gritty for so long. Superman looks kind of fresh. Dumb reason to want to see it. But that pop culture junkie is still in me. What else? What else? Well, in Higher Side News, I mentioned that conversions to THC TV were a little behind what I hoped for. Well, this is also a silver lining. I found some support tickets from people asking how to even sign up. And they were just a little confused. Well, when I had the guys rework our system to implement some things to make this possible, I was really focused on having them reformat the signup page for Plus. But I should have thought a little more deeply because the biggest boon for the TV tier is going to be conversions. Because if you're already paying for Plus and you want a better experience, then, yeah, you just bump up. That's going to happen a lot more than people coming in fresh, I would assume. So I didn't really dial in the upgrade as well as I could. So I got back into my test account. And yeah, it was a little clunky. You would go to account management and then you'd have to go through a few extra clicks. You'd have to click cancel essentially to then see the subscription manager to then upgrade. Well, we fixed that now. So if you go into account management now, it's a little more streamlined of a process. Unfortunately, I can't get around the fact that Stripe makes you put your credit card in again because it's just like a security thing. And sure, you're spending more money. It makes sense. But I've removed as many of the clicks as possible. You never really want a technical issue to prevent people from giving you money. But at least it's good to know that people are interested in doing that. And if you give it another try, it should be smoother all around. Also, all Plus members really should get in there and play around with the Clip Genie word search archive. I think if you give it a shot, you'll find it very useful. You might only need it once or twice just to find some old stuff. So the fact that it goes away on April 1st to only the $12 tier. So what? But get in there and play around with it. You can find the button on any episode page right next to the audio player. It's awesome to see every time a word has ever been used on the show. What was the first time someone mentioned plasma or the Collins elite or the Cathars? You know, what are the weird stories we've been told about the moon over the last 15 years? So it was always kind of easy to search and find out if a guest has been on THC. But now you can search and find out if a person's ever been mentioned or their work talked about. That's pretty cool. And you get the audio and the text of that part of the interview. It's a really great resource free to all Plus members until the 1st of August. Then we flip the switch. So yeah, it just becomes a premium feature on top of the video streaming itself. It is something that is also expensive for me. So I just threw it in there to sweeten the deal. And I just want to make sure people get enough time to engage with it during the trial period. Some people, again, might only want to find a few quick things and it's easier to do right now. You got about 10 more days, I guess. But all right, the next big thing on the list is to talk about the last episode. This is the one with Richard Dolan and a little low. It clocked in at a 4.1. And this really surprises me. He is the gold standard when you use the term UFO historian. And I thought people would love hearing him get outside of the ET hypothesis box a little bit and talk more about the esoteric angles. But I guess not so much. I think people find him a bit too trusting of insiders. He obviously voiced his frustration with those who are overly skeptical. And I didn't expect the listeners to dock him as many points, almost half a star from where I thought it would be. But I kind of get it. I'll read one anonymous plus comment who uses a username derived from a Wesley Willis song. Yeah, I see. But he says that Dolan said something like, would you automatically question your friends if they told you about something strange? Well, no, Richard, I wouldn't because they're my friends, not some government sus lord who until yesterday was receiving a paycheck from the Pentagon for lying to people. If Dolan is really that naive, I am seriously tempted to email him claiming that I'm a Nigerian prince. So, yeah, I kind of understand that sentiment. I mean, I do agree that if you're going to be making an argument about what you consider to be excessive skepticism, equating one's friends to career counterintelligence operatives is not really even close to the same thing. Sometimes your credibility is just suspect and that's fine. You can still do a lot of work as a counterintelligence expert. You don't get to pivot to a new field where honesty, transparency and trust are really the only currency. Sorry. Sometimes we do things in life that disqualify us from participating in something else. I don't want to use a highly charged off the radar example, but what comes to mind is the trans athlete thing. If there's a trans athlete league, sure, but there's not enough to really have that league. It's hard enough to have women's leagues and a lot of this stuff. But if you feel like you're in the wrong body and you want to transition, you can, that's fine. But then you don't get to play sports with the women. You just don't get to. Same as if you were born five, two, you probably don't get to play basketball. So I want everyone to do what they want to do, but yeah, there are some disqualifying aspects of a life. And so I think that when it comes to the ufology thing, you don't get to be counterintelligence for three, four decades and then jump into ufology because we've just seen this game before. So that is not how disclosure is going to work for me. And I don't consider being overly skeptical of specifically counterintelligence people to be too broad to be a problem. Because that's, I think what the suggestion was, is that these people are broadly too skeptical. I see the other argument too. You want insiders to speak out, but if you don't trust any insider who might have the knowledge, then you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot. It's a catch 22. But I think when it comes to insiders speaking out on ufology, I'm more inclined to believe a Navy ship captain who saw something out there in the middle of the ocean, or I might believe some military pilots who saw something flying around in the sky. That's fine. That is still far different from someone who's counterintelligence, right? So that's, I guess, how I feel about that. I agree. But we've had a lot of guests recently who are really good at what they do, but have used some outside examples that maybe don't really work for us. And those ratings haven't been quite as low. So a 4.1 to me strikes, strikes me as odd, a little low, but I guess it might've had more to do with that sort of stuff. If I had to guess, because otherwise I think he's great. Disappointing because I consider Richard Dolan to be one of those guests that every so often I can rely on to boost the excitement around the general lineup. He's one of the best at UFO history and the names and dates and figures in the space. As far as I'm concerned, even if he is still primarily ETH, it's fine. So a little disappointing there, but I guess the next thing we do is take a look at the meetup calendar. So we got some events on deck. Here they are. All right. On deck Sunday, this Sunday, the 20th of July, we got to Centralia, Washington at Bub's Pub, Sports Bar and Grill. And also July 20th, Colorado Springs at the Crooked Q. There are pool tables there, dartboards, pinball. Seems like a good time. And then the next day on a Monday, we got Eden, Terrence, Auckland, New Zealand, Gale Breath's Ale House. Moving on to July 28th, Brooklyn, New York at the Cafe Ornithology. So cool. And then the next on deck is Bentonville, Arkansas on August 1st. They're definitely putting themselves out there. Sponsored by former THC guest Marduk, the sun god. Wow. I remember that show. That is a 10 year old episode. They had a egalitarian community, kind of a permaculture setup. I remember that. I wish I could remember off the top of my head, the name of that, but look, just search Marduk, the sun god, and it'll come up. And then we also have Astoria, Oregon at the Astoria Brewing Company on August 8th. And then August 9th, Raleigh, North Carolina, the Raleigh Brewing Company. Now that I'm on this coast, I want to get up to the Carolinas. The kids are a little young for that big of a commitment in the car, but the Carolinas seem nice, as does Tennessee and Appalachia. I'm ready to get out there. Nathan Isaac, where are you? Get at me. Show me around. Wainwright, Alberta, Canada, August 16th, Wallace Park. I like it. And then the last one here on the list is Black Rock City, Nevada on August 27th. So there it is. Lots of things happening. I think more and more of our guests are making comments about the importance of having real world meetups. And you want to have good people in your network that are not needing to be updated when shit really goes south. So I would advise people, if you live in any of those areas, hop on the calendar, HiresideMeetups.com, get more details and show up. There's really no risk at all. And it's totally free. And if you didn't hear about an event near you, go ahead and make one. Okay. Well, again, I thank Mark for taking the time to be here and to you for listening. I hope we all learned a little something. Sign up for Plus if you want more of this episode where it got really deep and more of every episode, of course. And maybe you just want to give me an attaboy for being one of the few podcasts that truly rejects the sponsorship model and stays fully independent. Meet me on the plus side. All right. I'm out of here. I've done my part. Your move, stablecoin con men, digital grid designers, and technocratic tyrants. Your fucking move. Dark comes in, hope burns out. Empire tightens up its grip. The street, just the cracking of the whip. They nurtured our dependence, then they pulled the rug. Hard to and can resist. If we know the secrets, a holistic symbiotic way not far off in the distance. Melt down the pennies, it makes more sense. Real ones who might find some strange effects. Time. Eden is a mental switch. Those who hold the truth. If you even have the real ones, you might find some strange effects. Melt down. Isn't this great out, wasn't it? Lanvin you. Hmm. Yep. Schon. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Being. See you. Hmm.