Matthew Ehret | Engineering Beliefs, Subculture Creation, & Revenge Of The Mystery Cults

The planet is the world as we know it, but I feel fine. From the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And it's hard to have convictions about what the truth of anything is in a world so systematically stacked with state propaganda, sophisticated psyops, and engineered opinions as ours is. Complicating things further is this rat's nest of reality-shaping operations and public perception creation goes back about as far as there's been a reality or a perception of it to shape. Nearly every philosophy, organization, religion, government, think tank, or movement exalts itself as operating from the right moral position in a sea of manipulative garbage, often concealing its own deeper agendas behind the PR, ideological inception, and recruitment campaigns. It is truly tough to conclude much about anything anymore, but we do what we can to whack through the weeds and find our own path despite many misdirections and admittedly some occasional backtracking. Sadly, even many of the countercultures we might have found comfort in often end up having sketchy intelligence ties and unsavory funding that oftentimes leaves one wondering if we bought a lie sold to us as an alternative truth, which is the value I found in the dense and detailed work of today's guest Matthew Arrett. Matthew is a journalist as well as director of the Rising Tide Foundation, founder of the Canadian Patriot Review, and senior fellow of American University in Moscow. He's super active with very detailed films like the in-progress eight-part series The Hidden Hand Behind UFOs, impressive sub-stack articles, and many books, some co-authored with his wife Cynthia Chung, like a three-volume series titled Revenge of the Mystery Cults, a four-volume series titled Clash of Two Americas, Breaking Free of Anti-China Psy-Ops, How the Cold War is Being Revived and What You Can Do About It, and Science Unshackled, Restoring Causality in a World of Chaos. The topics covered in Matt's work are vast, but what I consider a uniting theme at the core is that mainstream vs. alternative is a dichotomy the elite use to ensnare us just the same as black vs. white, left vs. right, etc., etc. And we hear many assumed narratives across the conspiracy corpus that Matt suggests were engineered as a second net, aimed at counterculture capture. And that's something any truly open-minded free-thinker should at least be able to consider, so let's get in the mood. The dialect deconstructor, sheep-class critic, and light bearer in a dark labyrinth of lies. Matt, welcome to The Higher Side. Thank you for having me on, and thank you for that very generous introduction. I'm looking forward to this chat. I try, man. Wordy stuff. I don't make it easy on myself, but it is a pleasure so much to talk about. Largely, I hoped we could squeeze in a lot of the threads in the conspiracy mythos that you pick apart, because I find that to be the most unique aspect of your work. It's not that you're against conspiratorial thinking, but it seems like you might say that conspiracy-minded people aren't critical enough of the major alternative narratives within their own subculture, and we forget that a lot of thought goes into crafting false alternatives because they know not everyone's going to trust the mainstream. And that's pretty fair to say, right? Yeah, that's a very fair thing to say, and I think that you only become qualified to begin to start thinking about causality, our world, our future, what's shaping us, what will be the future, when you begin, when you take the step out of this kind of hyper-reductionist, normalized materialism that presumes that intentions, ideas do not shape reality. And it's only when you put that in the garbage and you accept the fact, this discoverable fact, that conspiracies shape everything and have always shaped everything pertaining to the human condition and will always do so, for good or for bad. It's not like conspiracy—and that's part of the thing, too. At that point, when you realize that conspiracies, intentions, ideas for what the future should be have been animating people who have had a common way of thinking and agreement about some future outcome, they work towards it, again, for good or for bad. But that doesn't mean just because you acknowledge that there are nefarious conspiracies that you all of a sudden have the master key to understand everything, right? Like you were saying, what does that mean? We see people who believe in conspiracies who disagree with themselves all the time. It's everywhere. So who controls the narratives of one type, one flavor of conspiracy, or another flavor or another flavor in the buffet that we're being given that gives us a sense of— certainly, it feels better. Like, there's a sense of solace to know, okay, every group who chose to be in that part of the conspiracy buffet, whether it's the shape-shifting lizard people or the inter-dimensional greys or the Jew Khazar people who say, no, it's all about the Jew Khazars, or, you know, there's so many different— the Jesuit groups, you know, it's all about the Jesuits. There's partially, I think, an attraction because to their particular variation because it gives a sense of satisfaction knowing that there's a reason for things. Like, the mind yearns for a reason. So we don't sit well in uncertainty forever. We need to hold on to, like, why did this happen? Why is there life? Why are bad things happening? Why are wars? Why are assassinations? So that's good. But you don't want to hold on so tight because, again, who's to say that that particular explanation that you've been given, although it's more truthful than the crappy ones of those many who have gone through our mainstream education system who have been led to believe there is no such purpose to asking even why in anything, whether science or whether history. It's all about, you know, there's pervasive belief in a randomness shaping the outcome and the unfolding of events, even the events of nature devoid of the human touch. We're told, okay, we have to assume that there's random genetic mutations in biology if we want to get a job and be respected and be peer-reviewed, and we have to abide by certain sort of modern godheads, like we have to pay homage to Darwin specifically in his particular randomized model of genetic mutations that give rise to a rolling-of-the-dice idea of mutations causing the weak of any given species to be destroyed as the strong of that species persevere. Or in physics, we're told we have to be, we have to presume in the absolute fact of randomness, probability theory that presumes that there's just, at the very subatomic level, no causation, everything is random, an electron could be here or there, and maybe it is in both places, we're told. Because string theory and these mathematical models that grew out of Niels Bohr's network of mathematicians have all told us that we have to presume that something is both a light, is a wave and a particle, whether it's matter or whether it's light, and it can be both here and there at the same time, and it can be in another universe because there's infinite universes, and there's thus infinite things that have existed, and thus there's no point in causality to even go there. So that's just stuff in the mainstream, and we're told as well, like, just why do wars happen? Well, people just got sick of paying taxes to a foreign power, so they did a revolution, and Hitler got kicked out of art school, so he made a war, and Napoleon had a small penis, so he made a war. And it's like, that's the stuff that people actually make careers around in mainstream. So you get out of that, and you're like, okay, no, there are Freemasonic agencies, there's secret societies, there's Rosicrucian undergrounds that seem to despise this human quality of problem-solving, making creative discoveries into God's creation, applying those to making our lives better, to finding peace with our neighbors, even if they have a different language or a different religion. Our natural human tendency has been historically to find peace, to avoid divide-to-conquer strategies, to make life better for our kids, and the oligarchy seems to be something which is parasitically latched onto us, which despises that attribute, and which works to bring out the worst in us in order to better control divided, dumbed-down, underpopulated people, and that's part of the reality of what we're living in. So all that to say, I know I'm going on a long time here now too, but I'll throw it back at you in a second. The issue of what's concerning me right now is a lot of the best people who have woken up, especially COVID kind of shook a lot of people out of their normie-ism, and they've become conspiracy theorists, with very strong opinions about everything pertaining from medicine, history, science, you name it, which it's good that people's minds are going into that much wider spectrum. They should do that, but there's a sloppiness as well. Part of that that I'm noticing of the sloppiness is a tendency to fall into traps, which I'm seeing, especially amongst the conservative, liberty-minded crowds that are the most equipped to pass judgment on the evil of this type of great reset agenda that we've been nudged towards over decades. But there is a tendency, on the one hand, to start seeing that, well, anybody who talked about conspiracies that pertain to bankers, especially with Jewish names, must be good. Must be good. So Hitler must be good, and I'm seeing a very clear revival of Nazism. You've got Kanye West, you've got all sorts of jokes. Joe Rogan is pumping out sanitized translations of Hitler's speeches, and it's coming out everywhere. Stu Peters is putting out very, very viral things. And because he's talking about the Protocols of Zion, Hitler is a conspiracy theorist. He emerged out of a network of people who were reading things like the Protocols of Zion that was being spread in the 1905 to 1920s period, especially in Germany, but also in Russia and in the United States. And if you read the writings of a lot of the conspiracy theorists around that, it looks very similar to what has become very popular today as far as recognizing free Masonic agencies, banking conspiracies. A lot of them, a lot of it involves the Benibrit and the ADL and other things. But it's also tied to a trap because Hitler himself, all of these things grew out of the theosophists, a bunch of Rosicrucian Satanists and Gnostics who were like masquerading and shaping what would become the basis of the New Age, which then put out these narratives in order to take people who were becoming very suspicious of mainstream establishment sources and nudging them towards a reactionary extreme trap. So that's what they do. They push a far left agenda on the one hand with Bolshevism run amok. And then the same Freemasonic agencies are pushing a right wing conservative reactionary position that then causes this dialectic to then manifest in the form of things that ultimately kill millions and millions of people. So I'll shut up now. No, that's my those are my considerations. Yes, that's great. You used a lot of examples that are way off my outline here, but it doesn't really matter. It's true. We're attracted to singular narratives, especially in the conspiracy world. You could say the mainstream narrative is like I can trust all these people in authority and that's my singular narrative and probably the opposite in the conspiracy world. And I've done these interviews for 15 years and I interview people who oftentimes have a singular lane and it's going to be all about the Jesuits. It's going to be all about this group or that. And I just hear them out and then I say to the audience, look, maybe I'm too dumb to tell you what to think, but we hear every case and whoever makes the best case kind of wins the argument. You know, I'm sure it's a little bit of truth in all these things, but like you say, problem, reaction, solution. They do things one way and then they bring someone up who says, hey, look what they're doing over here. And then everyone's like, yeah, this guy's actually telling the truth. And then they give you a solution that is, it is another trap. I have no problem with people re-examining everything they've been told. A lot of your work is about these characters of history that have been crafted and deconstructing their actual biography and saying a lot of that's a lie. So yeah, we have to do everything we can to look at everything we've assumed and then be like, was that a lie or was there some truth to it? Is it somewhat in the middle? So I don't have a problem with someone re-examining the speeches of Hitler or re-examining some of the stuff that people were attracted to because you got to re-examine everything. I just don't think we can take anything for granted, but a lot of time you find, well, I shouldn't swing the pendulum completely the other way. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and you have to admit that they're seeding little truths to be extra manipulative to get people back into a different camp. So these are the murky waters we swim in, right? It's tough to see anything clearly. But before we get too deep into the unexpected topics, I wanted to start by giving you a bona fide attaboy for the piece you wrote on Christmas Eve last year, Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, two sides of one magic trick. Now we've just seen Elon getting inducted into the Black Eye Club, whatever the hell that is. I think there's definitely something to it. And leaving the administration and publicly feuding with Trump, and at the same time, all the headlines come out about Palantir getting the green light to build the big database on all Americans. And it just seems like one tech bro passing the football to another. And this post you wrote way back when really foreshadows what's playing out right now, wouldn't you say? Yeah, unfortunately. Well, that was and that post that I that I published was part of a book. It was a chapter of a book that I was working on that's now published and available called Rosicrucian Golem. It's Revenge of the Mystery Cults Volume 2. You got a knack for titling things. I will say that. Thank you. Actually, I got a copy of it here. If people want to if they see it online, they want to pick up a copy. It's their Revenge of the Mystery Cults Volume 2. It's got the Rosicrucian cross there. And, you know, you got Isaac Newton, a rotten apple, Nikola Tesla, Charles Darwin, and in shadow in the back there is Elon. And yeah, basically the governing theme that I'm trying to sort of weave together is that there is a Rosicrucian magic trick that's been ongoing that ties what's going on right now to the emergence of the Rosicrucians back in 1606 in their official, their more modern form at least, which gave rise to a ritual mass murder of the world in the form of the Thirty Years' War that killed off millions of people which the Rosicrucians had organized, setting off religious wars that went on for generations in Europe. and how this thing that's tied to John Dee, Bacon, a whole network of people, Paracelsus, Robert Flood transformed the England into an empire, seeded things like the Invisible College, that's how they organized themselves, they created certain synthetic frontmen or cardboard cutouts as I go through one example of Isaac Newton, himself a self-professed Rosicrucian. The Babylonian witch as you call him in your writings. Yeah, Babylonian witch. That was John Maynard Keynes actually, himself part of this Rosicrucian operation and the Fabian Society who bought up Isaac Newton's chest and said that Isaac Newton actually when you look at his original works and John Maynard Keynes was happy about this, he said he was actually not so much the first of the modern scientists but the last of the Babylonian witches. That's John Maynard Keynes. And again, he was happy about that because he was like that's his tradition. So that, you know, because all of his original works were alchemy, were numerology, trying to calculate the end times was Kabbalism. So all that to say why, what I try to do in that book, again, I had luckily had a lot of researchers that helped me was map out where are the fallacies, where are the false narratives about what is science because there's a whole battle about how the, science is the domain where the human mind comes into contact with the mind of God. Like that's how I see science in the healthy sense. It's like we're looking for the laws of creation and if we're creative and we have a heart and a mind attuned with passion and love of truth more than our own axioms, then we will be able to self-question and even eliminate by our own free will those false constructs that are withholding our ability to make that leap, that discovery, that eureka. And so those, we are told a story about that science today in the worlds that are controlled by oligarchs that it was, that science occurred by people like Sir Isaac Newton, by Rene Descartes, who, Francis Bacon or later on Charles Darwin and there we've got a whole plethora of modern, of modern secular gods of the scientific, you know, enlightenment pantheon that we're told were like these great minds, you know, Richard Dawkins in a modern setting is another one and all that to say but then when you look at what that is, we're told, well, how did they make those discoveries? Well, the method that all of them promote or that we're told to abide by is a form of radical empiricism, a belief in sense certainty and that the mind must simply use the five senses in a radical form to look for patterns and then extrapolate patterns into universal laws that they then label with symbols that can then be memorized, repeated, and applied almost like in a monkey-like way by others and those people can become convinced that they're doing science. Now, I could say when I actually look at the works of people who made those discoveries, it wasn't Newton. Almost every, I would say, even every single discovery that Newton is attributed for having made as a part of this Rosicrucian Invisible College can be attributed earlier to real continental scientists like Johannes Kepler, like Godfrey Leibniz, like Pierre de Fermat, like Christian Huygens who are actually making the breakthroughs on the inverse square law, on optics, on everything, on the infinitesimal calculus. So what's happening, and this goes into the running theme, is that there has been a technique to try to steal the fruits of the discoveries made by real integrated human beings. And if you can't destroy science, at least try to co-opt it and repurpose it for your own ends, says the empire or says any imperialist. And what they've done is they've had a technique that's been sharpened of taking cardboard cutouts that they then will steal new technologies, new innovations, new techniques, new discoveries, big discoveries too, and then repackage them. They will eliminate the soul of the discovery, the method. They will then just give it the shell. They will keep the shell like the formula that can be memorized. And then they will pass it on in something that can be memorized like Newton's Principia Mathematica, which is just a compendium of it's like an encyclopedia of right answers, but no question of causation. What was he thinking about? What was his experiments? What did he do wrong? Nothing of that is there. So that's part of what the oligarchy has been trying to do to give us a false sense of knowledge of the universe and then also keep us in a cage. Now, as you alluded to, this Peter Thiel, Elon Musk thing, both characters, when you start scratching on the surface and the article that came right before that one in the book is Elon Musk and the revival of technocracy 2.0, which basically gets at the theosophical Rosicrucian elements that shaped Elon Musk's grandfather, Joshua Haldeman, who was assigned working very closely with Fabians and Rhodes Scholars in Canada, who set up what was known or led the Canadian branch of Technocracy Inc to create basically a I think at this point it's become more known amongst the type of viewers who watch your show that they were calling for essentially a complete overhaul of mankind or recrafting of human beings under a scientific like a technocratic elite that would involve establishing a centralized control grid with Greenland, all of North America, Mexico, all the way down to Panama as the centralized control system. And Elon Musk has made reference to the Technate idea. He's even taken the naming procedures that the Technate of his grandfather had promoted which was that if you want to be a member of this new society and all members of Technocracy Inc had to give up their names or at least substitute their names for a series of numbers and X's. So Joshua Haldeman's name was like X235X2 and we could see that Elon Musk has even given a little bit of an homage to that for one of his probably test tube kids. I say probably I don't know but probably and has given direct explicit lip service to Technocracy Inc as something that he believes should be the basis of his vision for Mars colonization calling for a Martian Technate other things. So if you trace out the lineage of Elon Musk as a personality both as he was promoted as a great genius who sort of was self-generated as a great genius and the richest man in the world proves that he must be the most brilliant mind and who's got all of these patents technological patents associated to his name a lot of it is very reminiscent of the type of approach that was used to craft the figure of Isaac Newton four centuries earlier. Isaac Newton who himself could never publicly defend he was never allowed to go into an uncontrolled setting where people would challenge his so-called discoveries because he couldn't put them into words he was a member of parliament he was a very powerful figure he was a reward he was made the master of the mint of the Bank of England so he was given a lot of political power but he would never said anything on record in the parliament he was only known for getting his rocks off passing the death sentence for anybody who was like counterfeiting and he always wanted to watch the torture and the murder of the people in England who were like passing on counterfeit coins so that's Newton was a sociopath again he was into occultism in secret and then being passed off like he was this great empiricist scientist and I think you know Elon Musk he's never allowed to be in an uncontrolled environment where people are authentically challenging him he cannot put and many many expert software engineers who really know their stuff have listened to him try to describe the software that he's we're told he invented and the patents he owns and he can't do it so he's clearly got handlers and is clearly mostly a branding projection he falls apart just in a two hour podcast interview with someone who's kind of on his side he just doesn't come off as all that intelligent it is it is a facade like I like the cardboard cutout analogy and we've deconstructed the Royal Society and had a lot of criticisms of all of its members and its various branches I mean anthropology history itself all the different types of sciences and how the mainstream worldview has kind of been crafted but what's so interesting about your work is you also go after that alternative and you held up the book cover obviously Tesla's on that book it is interesting that Musk got this counter kind of counterculture credibility by using the Tesla name when his car company first came out people are like oh this guy he gets it he knows the alternative stuff well in this nine part series on Tesla you talk about a lot of the myth making and to quote part one you write was Nikola Tesla a great genius ahead of his time as a modern prophet or electrical wizard as some have called him or is there evidence that something much more insidious was afoot an image has been passed down to us of a renegade genius misunderstood by those living in his era constantly financially attacked by the evil financiers who preferred to support the unscrupulous Thomas Edison or Marconi leaving him poor digging ditches for food and selling his futuristic patents for money but is any of this actually true my contention is that scratching at the carefully crafted official narrative of Tesla's life and works extremely dark forces are soon found lurking under the shiny surface which should not be ignored and I love having assumptions challenged my whole paradigm time has kind of been like well look the oligarchs and the robber barons they kind of crafted the mainstream science around meterable controllable things let's make sure electricity is metered and wired and not abundant and we can charge for it oil same thing and then the alternative world suggests that there is a lot of stuff out there that's been cut around like the ether and ether based physics and you know anti-gravitic electro-gravitic technologies and a lot of that whole world view goes a lot deeper than just Tesla it doesn't come out of just one guy I mean there's Wilhelm Reich there's Victor Schauberger who looked at nature and saw vortexes and other things there's T Townsend Brown there's more modern people like Christopher Hitchenson who is a Canadian who used to film levitation on YouTube and then died suddenly there's Stanley Myers who got cars to run on wire cars to run on water and also got killed so I'm kind of in this in this box of thinking that there is a lot of more abundant and free flowing technologies that have been suppressed but you seem to write about ether in a negative sense like that's a bunk thing at least that's the vibe I get from from what you've written but talk to us about a better way the correct way to think about the alternative science world and a figure like Tesla yeah sure well I would say a lot of this stuff like science is fake like most of the science we've been given we can all agree is mostly fake make-believe narratives that are keeping us from actually discovering the laws of the universe with but still giving us an arrogant sense of self-satisfaction if you're you know an academician in in university or you know you're you're getting research grants you've got a false sense of arrogance that you you know yes of course we know exactly what's inside the sun look at these graphs and we know that the inside of the earth you've got you know this much mantle and this much core and we know exactly how that works and it clearly and then we know exactly the big bang we need to the millionth of a second of a picosecond we know exactly 13.7256 you know billion years ago was the big bang and before that there was nothing and then after that we're going to go to a heat death with after which there will be ultimately nothing so of course we know and the arrogance is astounding right it's it's sickening but it's the consequence of what the oligarchy wants because we lose the passion to seek the unknown when we think we know it all like why why you know if anything will feel threatened if a student asks a good question the teacher will if they're of that rigid mindset become even angry that the student is asking a question that they don't know the answer to already you know and they'll they'll typically instinctually attack so that's useful for an oligarchy but what are they suppressing like I made reference to how Isaac Newton's discoveries can be attributed if you if people look at the original works of like look for the origins of the ideas like those ideas attributed to Newton came decades in some cases like in the case of Kepler a couple a generation before Newton was even born Kepler was discovering gravity how was he discovering gravity he didn't like the inverse square laws there in Kepler's works published in 1619 he's discovering it by the harmonics so he's looking at Pythagorean harmonics and doing it intelligibly you could read all of Kepler's writings that have survived like his harmonies of the world where his third planetary law of motion is expounded upon where he discovers provably that the reason for the planetary orbits because he's asking the question why are the orbits that are knowable located in the positions that they're located in and not some other possible set of configurations but we find them in these certain configurations why that and not some other and his hypothesis he takes from from Plato's Timaeus which Plato's Timaeus first lays out this hypothesis from the Pythagoreans that there is a geometric harmonic beauty and a coherent ordering right of the planets that ties into the platonic solids and the nesting of the five platonic solids the dodecahedron icosahedron octahedron cube and tetrahedron so there's a lawful way of nesting them that gives you certain proportions but the the data empirically was not available in the time of Plato to actually pursue that to make a discovery fully but the hypothesis was a potent one Saint Augustine even even explores that in the last three chapters of his unabridged confessions and this is like a big idea da Vinci is even looking into the question of the the dodecahedron and its relationship to nature to life to the cosmos so Kepler actually proves it he takes it he's got enough data for the first time to actually take that hypothesis and then demonstrate that there is a musical coherent or ordering and that the that tempers the behavior of all of the planets around the sun and that has huge geopolitical implications because that means if the if the universe is organized in a harmonious way by by a composer creator which is coherent to the mind of the mortals and he's not part of a ruling family he's not part of a noble Rosicrucian bloodline or something he's just a human being from like a lowborn but who is able to make this this incredible discovery and then translate that into words that were intelligible that means that the entire way that that society has permitted itself to be organized has been completely wrong and he's very coherent about that in his writings now when you actually look at the the breakthroughs made by the big breakthroughs made in science in all the subsequent years coming after and by the way Kepler is citing Leonardo da Vinci's work on the golden section Luca Pacioli's work on the golden section which happened a generation earlier than Kepler so there's a direct continuity of this this unbroken continuity between the Pythagorean platonic school that was also fighting to create a new type of society that would be premised around natural law and and a true harmony founded upon the the sacredness of individual liberty at the same time as the individual is is matured to realize that their freedoms are in are tied directly into their duty that that's the conception of the philosopher king notion developed by Plato and that was sort of carried forth so Leibniz who discovers the infinitesimal calculus is is not just doing mathematics he's this is these are ideas that are ripped off and then we're told are tied to Isaac Newton it's not true he's looking at Kepler's works he's looking at the nonlinear changes in physical space time they're they're looking at the integration of of space matter and time already all all ever all of these potent thinkers are doing that and they think of space as a saturated thing they they don't they're all battling the empty space idea of Euclid of Newton who presume that there's such a thing as empty space with self-existent matter just floating around pushing and pulling on itself through mysterious forces in absolute time so all of these figures like like Leibniz like Kepler like the Bernoulli brothers who are making great discoveries on nonlinear physical space time later on Gauss later on Riemann they later on which is cited by by Einstein as the foundation for this idea of a Riemannian physical space time that has curvature that has saturation Max Planck's work on the quantum is directly tied into this Max Planck is studying Kepler and setting Kepler stating to these new new generation of physicists that if you want to understand science you have to read Kepler and nobody's listening to him they call him the crazy old man who doesn't believe in the new discoveries of randomness as if that's a new discovery but but the people who are making the discoveries that form the foundation of the best breakthroughs including the work in the they recognize that there is some form of an ether that there's a shape to space and that includes Einstein as I get it in chapter six of this book Einstein actually was defending he had an idea of an ether but it wasn't the type of idea of the ether that was promoted then by the networks of the occultists and Rosicrucians then circling around the figure of Thomas Huxley who was the grandfather of all this and Julian and the handler of Charles Darwin at the road at the invisible college in England at that time so they had an idea of an ether that was based upon an occult idea that there would be that there are angels and demons and other entities and elementals that's the sort of the Gnostic idea that exist in this other domain that we can channel and so a lot of these guys are utilizing sort of Delphic channelers as part of their operation for themselves you know people like Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton who's also part of this whole Rosicrucian revival apparatus very closely tied to all to Thomas Huxley they're using channelers they're they're trying to invoke demonology they're trying to talk to the dead they're doing necromancy in that sense and so part of the idea of that version that sick idea of the ether is that there are all of these demon forces dead dead ghosts that we can like interface with if we are adept and Gnostically sort of initiated that's driving the world insane and you've got an attempt to try to validate scientifically that notion of the occult ether through the veneer of science and people who were mentors of a young Nikola Tesla in I was surprised to discover but I guess increasingly less and less surprised the more I looked into it were people like William Crooks Sir William Crooks who's known as like this great you know mathematician technologist scientist he was the president of the British Royal Society for a few years he was also the president of the uh uh psychical society the the British um society for cyclical research society for cycle thank you society for he's the president of that at the same time and he was the mentor of Tesla uh they write lifelong course or not lifelong but for many many years in the 1890s they're writing correspondences Tesla's calling him my mentor Crooks is trying to he's he's helping to promote the spiritualist religion to overthrow Christianity it as a whole in his position as the scientist and he is stealing ideas of other scientists there's there's actually a number of real real scientists who he's ripping off saying his his ideas are his own and then he's redefining what's going on within his his test his his crooks crooks devices crooks tubes that he's then saying okay what's going on when you're looking at these plasmas is actually uh you know ghostly forces tied to our dead loved ones and relatives and he's helping to create fraudulent mediums and and supporting these fraudulent mediums who are discovered to be fraudulent but he's he's trying to use his authority to pass this off so this is what what Tesla is being shaped by and Tesla ends up playing also a big role in a lot of this too promoting the idea that machines that he's being given and being told are are things he's patented like little little machines that are automated um his his teleautomata teleautomaton is a big one he's he's circulating across the United States in the 1890s acting like it's a self-thinking machine that's solving problems that that he's asking his audience it's kind of like a pt barnum skit and he's asking his audiences to go and and post questions to this machine this teleautomata but only mathematical questions and it'll solve all the the questions for you and using a bunch of lights it answers questions and the audience is is flipping out and he's of he's telling them that is doing this because he's telepathically communicating to this this thing through the power of his his very adept mind and and neck muscles that he says is allowing him to transmit his will into the machine to answer for him it's not true actually it turns out it's these things are being run by one of his assistants hidden in the background with a little device controlling the buttons so he's part of this magic trick you know and and that kind of got got me so I'm I'm seeing so I'll wrap it up here this way there is this beautiful set of discoveries throughout the 20th century from people like Christian Birkeland who is part of the Keplerian harmonious plasma based worldview that found that that creates the foundation of a lot of what became in our more recent days known as the electric universe you know model which is I would say the the more correct model than anything available otherwise good but it's it's infused Christian Birkeland who was looking at plasmas in the real sense and Birkeland currents which do are truly founding like the the relationship of all the planets to the the the sun as electric currents as electric circuits moving through plasma and every sun within our galaxy as interconnected within a very saturated domain all the great discoveries I think were happening through that that current but the oligarchy has done two things they've tried to well they kill I think they killed Christian Birkeland first of all but they they they tried to they try to steal those discoveries so that they could then use them for their own purpose to repurpose them and then use them at their choice not to enlist uplift people to a better way but to enslave us and on the other hand if they can't completely subvert people's appreciation for this tradition what they can do is they can infuse crazy into it infuse it with occultism so that we get we fall off the path of this tradition so that there's people like herself a Rosicrucian Francis Yates whose book I'm reading right now called the Rosicrucian enlightenment she's just it's from the Warburg Institute by the way that published this thing in the in the 70s she's lying all over the place she's trying to say that Kepler's a Rosicrucian Leibniz is a Rosicrucian everybody's a Rosicrucian every all everything good came out of out of people doing black magic and so that's what they're that's what they do they're they're like you know and so they they create these these new little mystical narratives right and I'll end it there I guess but that that's sort of my my my way of approaching that that very difficult question that you threw at me no it's it's all great you are a really good speaker you've clearly done a lot of research into all this stuff and I have this lengthy outline we're only on page two of a seven page outline clearly I'm looking at the time we're not really going to get to everything but you kind of did say overthrowing Christianity and this is kind of where like I said earlier I interview a lot of people they have their own perspectives on all of this murky stuff and yours seems to be Christianity like that seems to be your true north I'm getting the sense that if it isn't Christian then it's in the bad category and I guess I feel like you lump in a lot of things as a cult or negative that I wouldn't put in that context not all I mean things get used like let's MKUltra you know you say you talk about MKUltra you talk about psychedelic studies yes but I think you kind of throw the baby out with the bathwater there because even though psychedelics were used in MKUltra and they were weaponized and they were even propagated in the culture of the 60s and all that some of them are natural some of them I think you know like mushrooms I think have a real spiritual purpose I think if you get outside of the small sliver of Western culture using them trying to find a truth serum or weaponize them there's a robust global usage of these things for a natural spirituality I think if we're getting to the laws of nature like this is a natural thing that opens up consciousness and this is just one example but you're hard on SRI and remote viewing you're hard on a lot of this stuff that I would say psi effects you know it seems like you doubt all this stuff is even possible or channeling like yes there's a lot of fraud in channeling and mediumship but I also think there is direct downloads from something of a spiritual nature that some people occasionally get I know your series about the hidden hand behind UFOs goes really deep into the manipulations there with government intelligence and Rosicrucians it's really well done but I think you almost you don't give much attention to the wide range of strange bizarre experiences people do report to have with something from your Christian perspective is that demons is it all fabricated like that's kind of where I have a heart's a heart I'd a hard time really grappling with the wider worldview of how much credibility you give to some of these other things the Sibyls another example you refer to the Sibyls as women who were raped by the priesthood and filled up with drugs and then thrown in a cave to Babel and it seems like you don't put any credibility in the actual prophecies of the Sibyls that's okay I could see a adjacent thing to MK Ultra abusing kids to get them in exotic states of consciousness to try to extract some kind of information from the wider reality like there's a parallel between the way you describe the Sibyls with the language I just used and what MK Ultra was doing to kids so I'm trying to you know stumble through a summary of what I expected to get through over the course of two hours because I just want to make like get the overview that you think these all these alternative things you kind of just seem to think they're all bullshit hmm well I I don't know if um well here there's a lot of elements that you you raise there I know I had to sorry best no but I I do I do it too right like I throw so much at you as well so it's it's like yeah um so what I would say for the first up of my position uh metaphysical position personally speaking um if you were to ask me like what do I categorize myself most as I would primarily say probably a platonist um that's probably what I would do um kind of I'm very sympathetic to Ben Franklin um like I've read a lot of Ben Franklin's works oh no um Hellfire Club oh yeah yeah you know I studied all the bodies under his house nah they made that up ah see yeah that's what they do well you even think the Nag Hammadi texts were a forgery which you know no no I don't think it's a forgery I think it's a coming out party I like I think that those texts weren't discovered in 1946 I think that they were already known but after World War II as a new onslaught to prepare for um a new great reset was like a new reset of all of the human condition was being put into motion and all of the Nazis were being sort of given new assignments to run NATO and the global secret army apparatus and stuff if people don't know about that I'm sorry for you people not with you today uh but at the same time as that whole new uh plan was being brought online I think that the decision was made at that moment to release them to the public as a bit of a coming out party with a bit of a story around a Muhammad Ali murderer on the run from the law who found himself in a cave and discovered all of these these texts that then you know were very quickly translated uh under the the um the management of Carl Jung and the Carl Jung Institute and you put Carl Jung in the in the category of like part of the milieu of uh the bad guys oh yeah see that that I think that's what's so surprising to people you lump you put Tesla Rudolf Steiner and Carl Jung in this group as Rosicrucians that are manipulating the alternative you even go so far at one point to draw some connections between Tesla and Crowley we've covered Crowley as a British spy before but not to this degree where you suggest that Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower funded by JP Morgan of course a red flag might have been a way that Crowley reported back and you say there's a report from US Office of Navy Intelligence dated July 10th 1917 that zeroed in on Theodore Rouse Crowley's fellow leader in the Rosicrucian OTO I don't ever hear the OTO described as Rosicrucian but they stated that Crowley maintained some mysterious means of communication with their chief in Berlin Rudolf Steiner so I don't ever hear these threads connected and that's what makes me think like am I talking to someone who comes from this Christian perspective that says Gnosticism bad Rosicrucianism bad I mean I don't know I can't I don't necessarily have a dog in the fight but I just never hear these things tied in together and it seems like uh that's kind of unique to you thanks I guess um sure okay I look for unique perspectives that's why you're here yeah I try uh so okay look um so yeah getting back to the thing so my position being um somebody who abides and I was mentioning Ben Franklin so when Ben Franklin was asked like what what's your position what's your religion what's your what's your philosophy he's like I I follow Confucius Socrates and Jesus right so the point being is I'm looking at the life he's looking at the life of how they they they self-organized their minds and their their messaging to make the world a better place and to understand creation and Socrates Confucius and Jesus I think are pretty pretty solid people um I'm very sympathetic to that way of thinking um so I'm always looking for like my my core elements to my faith is that there is a creator that created the universe with reason and is not a dead creator that just made rules that can be that must be followed but is a is a present living creator that's present at all times at all places creating creating and that we are thus co-creating potentially if we choose to with that creator if we're developing our minds at our aesthetical sensibilities according to the in some way which is in conformity with the laws natural law so called the way it's developed by St. Augustine for example or or or Confucius um within his Analects or or Mencius within his his golden uh his his doctrine of the mean um for example so I you know I'm I do have a sort of I'm looking for the universal attributes the simple attributes that different cultures have tapped into at different times that allows us to discover God's creation and and change our behavior through our own desires and our own will in in emulation with those discovered laws hidden laws let me just jump in to say broadly speaking that's my world view too I agree with that I just think when we get into the little nuances the details you put things in kind of a nefarious category that I don't think are necessarily nefarious I mean God made the Amanita muscaria mushroom I guess I just wonder what you think about I would think you're gonna you're gonna try to tell me that all psychedelic mushrooms are are made by the CIA or something because they made LSD no no my position on that on on the on the question of psychedelics is simply that everything has to be done with um you don't want to skip steps in developing uh your methods and your research and anything like you're not gonna get a kid who's in grade three to go and you know just immediately do work that is expected of somebody in in grade ten oftentimes I think that what we are dealing with is a lot of people have been victimized in ways they don't understand by a culture that's that's withheld from them the because we live in an oligarchical system right that's that's the name so we've been withheld from our ability to to even just understand how our mind works in a healthy uh creative state in just a natural creative reasonable state where reason and create creative spontaneity coexist at the same time um in a healthy way so we've been cut off all of that history that's what kind of why I went through that work that that brief sketch about this history of science that's been cut off by this invisible college operation that's been creating on the one hand a radical empiricist doctrine and on the other hand um a a hyper mystical gnostic doctrine that is a very an apparent opposition to the the radical empiricism that they ironically promote for the public but then they have something else for the initiated higher elite who recognize the limitations of cartesianism newtonianism and want to go in the opposite direction and want to find something more healthy um so they have something for the initiates as well to jump into I'm saying that there's another more another current that's been cut off from us which is tied to neither one of those two extremes but is founded upon a coherent continuous school of thought that ties the sciences and the arts and political freedom together that have co-evolved together by people who often get assassinated by these by these entities by these agencies over the over the millennia I guess what I'm trying to say is that if it comes to most people that I encounter in our culture today who talk about all of the explorations with psychedelics that they have had they haven't they're skipping steps they haven't taken their time to understand how the this beautiful instrument of the mind works in a straight manner before they go off and are trying to discover alternate universes and channel and speak to other entities and stuff through the assistance of naturally occurring products from nature and I'm not saying that it should never be done I'm just saying it's being done in such a disjointed way that it's not making people better or more capable of actually combating this oligarchical beast that wants to kill us all in a big extermination that's going to happen pretty soon if we don't change our paradigm because they're going to get their 95 population kill off if we don't really think very differently about what they are and how they operate and how they get us to self-control in our own worlds you know okay that's part of my thing that's fair to say but we can't control what other people think and we're never going to get everybody to agree people are so brainwashed I gave up on that a long time ago in terms of if we can only just get everybody to think x if we can only get everybody to fight this then we can topple them I don't know no I don't mean that at all I just mean the the idea of people who learn how their minds are supposed to work there's no formula for that yeah I was just commenting on that last part you said but it seems like if I were to lump all the alternative things that I mentioned earlier into one basket it would be extended consciousness or altered states of consciousness yes the CIA explored this stuff but you know a lot of other people outside of the CIA have explored altered states it seems like you are kind of just generally down on altered states of consciousness I don't think you do you think there's actually um value in exploring altered states of consciousness do you think that precognition is a thing is remote viewing real I mean I've done a remote viewing experiment that worked I don't think it's satanic no I'm not I wouldn't say I think it's the question of how do we define this it's like the ether question right when I mentioned that that Einstein and Planck believe also in the ether it doesn't mean because we've been told that you have to be either one extreme or the other you believe in empty space or you believe in the ether we're we're given these dichotomies but they actually when you actually look at it believed in an ether it just didn't fall into the category of what's being promoted as the ether today so I think the same thing goes in my mind for altered states you know like if you look at the the creative flow like when you're in a when you're in the zone whether you're an artist a musician um an actor you're you're really giving yourself entirely to not your ego you're putting yourself into the into the the flow of the spirit of the music that you're performing or of the of the performance that you're performing if you're doing it authentically and honestly and you're and space and time change you can see it in sports you know people talk about being in the zone and physical space time is just or space time and in general is just totally condensed when you're in that creative flow state so in that sense like yeah I'm totally a big fan of altered that type of category of altered states they usually call it the flow state like that's one that's one example the zone is another example there's there's numbers of many words that have been given to that state over over the you know uh over the millennia um but again the question is in my mind do we is it based upon the abandonment of our our reason do we completely lose ourself entirely is there nothing of us and the eye left in the the flow state is it totally other or is there some harmonious balance that can exist of the two where you're both the other and the self at the same time and and also reasonable as well as creative at the same time like using reason but that's not rigid logic but a more healthy creative reason at the same time as you're not abandoning uh the use of that that quality and I've noticed that a lot of the discussion of altered states that come out of the eslan institute that are being advanced um in our current culture are based upon the abandonment of the use of reason and the abandonment completely or the attempt to abandon the use of or the access to ego or the eye whatever you want to call it and that that is I think an error I don't think that that's the the healthiest approach to the altered state experience that we have available to us so I don't want to run out of time without talking about two things and I think we're going to but UFOs and China I just you have such unique takes on China that I have to fit it in but just to use UFOs as as an example of this larger thing we're trying to talk about your series is great you break down all the military intelligence people that are involved in crafting the stories and crafting you know Roswell and the aviary and all these people Hal Puthoff and Jacques Vallée and you say this is the new invisible college these people are trying to seed a mythos that gets us into this techno psychedelic gnostic one world government okay I think the nuance there for me is I acknowledge almost everything you say in that series as true and as manipulation but they're not making it up out of whole cloth they're manipulating an actual reality of people having experiences with something non-human and then they're twisting it to say well these are aliens from another planet and you know Darwinist evolution is going to take us there and this is a good thing and we should all want to go that direction like that's the HG Wells stuff that you fold in the Mars stuff you fold in yeah I can acknowledge that but are you of the position that what we call ufology is just nothing that hundreds of thousands of people don't have visitations in their room from something very strange that takes them out of body to another reality gives them some weird download are you of the opinion that all of that is made up uh there's a um hold on I'm just trying to get the name of the book here I have in the other room all I want to say is just because I think that there's a spiritual nature of something that is always existed with us and they're twisting that to make it ufology okay so here's my my considerations on that question and that very important topic I'm assuming you don't have a hard stop after two hours do you or is it a hard stop no we can go a little longer little okay all right I'll still try to keep it short but so David McGowan uh excellent contemporary researcher you okay so he wrote a book called programmed to kill and it's a fantastic book his more famous book is uh strange things at Laurel Canyon right but the programmed to kill book that he wrote before that um examines all of the cases of known serial killers um over the past I think he takes about a century uh of a data set and he just goes through each case study to try to see kind of like what I did with the jack the ripper murder is are these naturally occurring as we've been told um cases like the zodiac killer and others or or is there evidence of occult ritual um operations within and around those those murders and he finds that in every single case there was occult and intelligence operations tied to each one of those cases of seemingly uh we're told um disc discontinuous discrete cases of of serial killers um I think of which Michael Aquino played a role in the zodiac killer one two with the process church of final judgment which is also a Scientology outgrowth of 62 and that's tied to Charles Manson now the thing about this stuff is that Charles Manson thing comes up quite a bit there was I've noticed in my research a practice amongst many of these various um cults of the 60s and 70s that really grew out in the 70s like they really blossomed big time um there was as Charles Manson called it um the practice it was a ritual of creepy crawly and people could google creepy crawly Charles Manson family and this is something that was done to thousands of households where the family was told to go in and look for houses in suburb neighborhoods and other places that have unlocked doors or windows and creep and crawl into the house and move things around and you know that was one thing that was there's one aspect of it which has been documented which involves you know how this was done to both just put in a little bit of a scare into the population but not to nothing really harmful but within my line of research it wouldn't be because the case of of mass like personal abductions and especially the you know the the sexual molestation and and the the violence committed to a lot of the people who go through uh alien abduction cases and tell their story about it um there is a strange amount of of anal rape um which is something that tends to occur or anal examination with a probing that is a thing it's a weird thing that aliens coming from another galaxy would be so obsessed with i think that was something the media made in the 80s and 90s they hyped it up to make it but it was there it was a disproportionately large amount of people the people i know who have had these people who get pregnant don't have that but yeah i mean sure it's in the mix oh you have to get the happy ones too but in that in that time it was in the 60s and 70s especially in the 70s when it really blossomed as far as the cases because before 62 you didn't really have any cases of of that sort of disturbing form there was like the case of the venusian space brothers that came and you know brought george damski into their ship uh there were the more like like beautiful aryan kind of people um but then you had the more warped versions the more scary versions that started coming out of the 60s slowly but then in the 70s they blossomed so my mind is would want i don't know how investigatable this is but that it wouldn't be hard for me to imagine how the creepy crawly type of practice could involve taking people in their sleep giving them a bit of chlorophyll or something else to put them in even deeper of a sleep um maybe with some masks maybe coordinated those masks and then remove them to do things to those people in the 70s at which they're left either in the forest or brought back into their bedroom i don't know um and then that creates in a in a day's drug doubt state people who might be told how to interpret what they just experienced um by information channels that are open to them letting them know that it was actually aliens that did that to you that brought the light into your room and other things um that caused your ass to hurt or whatever else i you know for me i i would i i don't know i don't think that work has been done i would challenge people i know but knowing that that that is a thing i my mind goes there more than anywhere else to try to say let's let's figure out if that accounts for a lot of these cases of uh you know of abuse and and and extraterrestrial abductions right um at that time usually that's framed as my lab experience experiences uh my lab abductions you know military abductions that simulate the things that are going on or maybe change them around to include some of the more nefarious aspects of it but i just wanted to hone in on are you don't think that there is communication with non-human intelligence no at all i don't you don't think there are spirits and demons and uh multi-dimensional entities and these kind of things at all no i think these are i think the oligarchy believes in these things or but i don't think that they're real i think that the oligarchy drives themselves uh into a form of schizophrenia and and uh disembodied states of identities that edgar ellen poe documents in his short stories like the imp of the perverse uh pretty well or or william wilson is another short story by poe where he goes through this higher type of of schismed identity that has a demonic character that the oligarchy does to themselves that they build whole mythologies around and organizing principles around that they then project as stories for everybody else to also fall into but i don't think that that's actually true i don't think there are these these forces for good for good or for bad or lighter darkness that they interface with yeah see that's what i was trying to get to is just a straight answer on your thoughts on what is at the bottom of ufology and you basically think it's nothing that it's all created by military intelligence and these rosicrucians and this invisible college to create something that isn't really there whereas my distinction is that i think they are taking a reality that's always existed with humanity a larger than material world a larger hierarchy of conscious intelligences and then trying to change the wrapper on that from a spiritual dichotomy to a more sci-fi reality so that's the distinction that we have on that specific issue but regardless i do love having ideas challenged i mean you go on these uh well i i would say look jacques valet did write some good books uh his books are pretty useful even though i think he is probably himself a satanist i think that's interesting but his books are so useful and he's the first to really document the occult sort of overlap um with a lot of the cases of aliens and the interdimensional idea that he introduces with his passenger to magonia and he does map out the different folklores of imps and child abductions from different villages in sweden and ireland going back to the middle ages and how different names were given to these entities these elves and and gnomes and you know different things berries that he says is what these more primitive peoples would have given as the name for the aliens that they were seeing but they didn't know what to call them or the demons which might be the same thing because they're leaping from a another you know dimension right which maybe was where they exist and into ours and they abduct kids i would say what what what my mind finds more i was going to say attractive repulsive but yet still what i'm attracted to as a as a hypothesis a we know of all of these witch covens and marina abramovich's networks she's not solo she didn't come out of a vacuum you know she's overseeing like the child safety she's the south child safety ambassador for ukraine which has the biggest like child abduction uh racket in the world and but that again has been an unbroken continuity of witch covens that go back overseen by warlocks and and other things that have a weird sacred fetish about killing children um they seem to really want that the human sacrifice in general is part of their ritual i mean i don't deny that i just think that's the dark application of a magical reality it doesn't have to be dark just like you know regular murder i'm just i'm just yeah maybe not but but i'm saying what is what does seem to be present and pervasive throughout this whole thing is that there has been um a lot of cases whether it's the the warnings of the grim brothers for hansel and gretel or the the warning of the the pied piper taking the kids away is that there has been an ongoing plague of secret cults that have been uh murdering people in secret passing themselves off under the guise of of mystery that you can't understand that have been there in an unbroken manner and it take that whatever that mystery is as a wall that's going to prevent your reason from understanding what they're doing it takes on different forms at different ages but the effect is always the same and so i just see the the ufo story as the most recent iteration of that exact same technique of creating a wall that reason cannot trespass beyond that would otherwise help us understand the nature of this very sick um you know parasitical thing that the oligarchy is and and does as part of their ritual like their own religion governing and fucking up society yeah it's really interesting just to hear you talk because it really is like i have to go sentence by sentence and be like oh i really agree with that sentence oh that's where i differ that it's just really interesting because that's not a dichotomy i'm used to with a lot of people and uh so we have to talk about china a little bit let's bring it back to the modern day before we run out of time so you're a fellow a senior fellow at the american university in moscow your wife and you work on a lot of books together she's chinese together you wrote a two-volume set titled breaking free of anti-china psyops you seem to be in favor of the new belt and road initiative i've heard you talk about it a little bit i understand that the western globalists are constantly saying russia and china are bad but i don't know that there is a good guy here china and russia don't really seem to be the beacons of freedom that you write about them as you say the uyghur genocide thing is propaganda the organ harvesting is propaganda it seems like you say the human rights abuses aren't real and this is why you have a lot of critics online you know there's always critics i have critics too but there's a lot of critics that think that you're funded by china and russia and i don't ever think we need to go that far like why can't we just kind of say that anyone just because someone has criticisms of the way we look at other nations doesn't mean they're on the payroll but i guess it's like yes i i acknowledge there's some adversarial propaganda coming from the west no doubt you'd be dumb not to think that but i don't know if that covers the full spread of everything i mean don't you think china has its own human rights abuses is there no uyghur genocide or surveillance state social crediting system to keep critics in line is this all western fabrication um we should almost have a whole show i know i'm sorry but because these are these are not little questions and uh do you want to do a whole show on this at some point i mean we can sit down and actually like go through it case well i have to read that two volume book and then i would say yes but try to to set the stage for okay uh all right well here so i i tend to try to um conduct my analysis utilizing as much of an understanding of the uh the techniques of counterintelligence and propaganda that i could possibly understand and with an appreciation for trying to i guess define the this death cult this this thing that's been latching on to humanity for thousands of years that always has the same kind of desire at at in its heart and mind whatever its heart is um which is essentially the same thing it's it's global depopulation stasis um divide to conquer as a as a as a way of being right keep people as divided within themselves and with their neighbors as possible through a variety of techniques that involve bringing out the worst in us as humanly possible through our education our culture our arts or you know there's different ways of bringing out the worst part of people um we've got a better and a worse part they're good at the science of making us bad uh or making us worse than we could be and so i try to map that out as best as i can and with this sense that there has been this positive thing that gave rise to the american revolution that gave rise to all of these these amazing blasts of freedom and progress against the will of the oligarchy that have been really good really great for humanity and really inspiring so i try to like do that in my mind as i'm carrying out my analysis of current events the thing with a lot of the narratives that i scratch upon looking at like different reasons for us to think about china or russia in a certain way or iran in the muslim world in a certain way usually fall apart uh when i when i do my analysis and i noticed that you mentioned yeah i'm the senior fellow of the american university in moscow not paid no money coming in from russia or nothing like that my wife has a chinese last name her mom was born in hong kong um moved here when she was a young girl my wife has been born canadian doesn't speak chinese doesn't get paid from china so we don't like that's not i know a lot of people have come out and i've encountered these types of of statements which is why i'm saying it right now because people say oh your wife has a chinese last name she's a chinese agent you've worked with the american university of moscow you're a russian agent i've gotten these things so i'm saying it that way so i look for the origins of narratives where are they coming from and what evidence do i actually find that's available to my reason my inquiring reason to see if those narratives are true or false so when it comes to those ones that you just mentioned and again my breaking free of anti-china psyops volume one and volume two go through a lot more detail than i'm going to do right now i'm also making some videos going through this to try to like add some multimedia dimension and people can try to validate or disprove the claims that i'm making in the context of these arguments which i can't do justice to in this quick thing but i would say for the for the uighur genocide claims um no there's no so the thing about china and the and the the muslims in xinjiang is that china shares a 75 kilometer border with afghanistan and the reason why there was the problem of islamic terrorism what has everything to do with the fact that back in the especially in the the 70s zbigniew brzezinski and henry kissinger but especially zbigniew had a program called operation cyclone that had a great idea to start promoting putting 500 i think they put 500 million dollars of u.s taxpayer money um also conduited through the saudis and at the time pakistani intelligence to creating these radicalizing madrasas especially in afghanistan that would try to bring about the worst possible most violent reactionary interpretation of islam that would teach uh young men what how to interpret the messages within their quran that would then tend to through the you know wahhabist and and and salafist doctrination produce people who would be much more inclined to blow themselves up uh and become essentially though they knew it though they didn't even know it most of the time proxies for the usa in a war against russia that would draw in russia to weaken the soviet union so that was like the origins of what became modern al-qaeda now that didn't stop when the soviet union collapsed they continued doing that they continued finding that and and people looking at you know the real story behind 9-11 or or what was behind you know isis today whether in syria or libya or iraq or africa you'll find mi6 and the cia all over the place so the chinese have had it they had a problem where they shared this border with an eight with an area that went radicalized that involved also cia annexes in shenzhen that were set up in the late 70s throughout the 80s into the 90s that were running there overseeing the incubation of radicalizing young men in mosques that would again receive their money from the saudis at that time in the 90s 80s 90s and that would then send them via support with turkey which is part of the muslim brotherhood to go and fight proxy wars in syria and libya where they cut their teeth as head choppers by the year 2005-6 the terrorism started coming into china and they had about 180 different cases of terrorist activity um small and big in xinjiang but it was spreading around it was really spreading quite a bit china didn't cause that problem but they had to then deal with what do you do with the consequences of a bunch of indoctrinated young muslim men who are declaring war because they want to create uh you know east turkistan which is the like the entire province of xinjiang they call turkistan which is also what a lot of national endowment for democracy aka cia think tanks also call that area of china in a lot of the the think tanks that are in washington or in australia and they they call that area of china east turkistan they they don't believe it should be part of china that should be carved out and it's it's a balkanization doctrine the same thing is that you see with a lot of these think tanks that look at the russian map and they have you can google it online there's like you know 14 different sub federations that they want to create little micro ethno states out of under the control of the imf and the world bank so that's part of the of the technique now china had to deal with that problem um part of what they did is they didn't bomb any other countries the way we did when we had a muslim problem like a muslim terrorist problem um they had to do it do it without bombing anybody which they did through an economic development strategy so if you look at xinjiang and the xinjiang genocide or the muslim genocide problem that we've all been told we who actually are part of countries that that did kill millions of muslims and are still doing it uh but we've been told to be all bleeding heart and sympathetic to apparently these abused muslims all of a sudden we should care about in china um who went from having a life expectancy of 39 years of age in 1975 to 76 years of age today the population itself has more than tripled in that same period of time they have had no although the chinese through the club of rome and henry kissinger in 79 80 did impose a one-child one-child policy on themselves through the club of rome when they brought in the club of rome which is again a david rockefeller operation that brought in this these computer models to justify depopulation that was one of the conditions upon which they would be granted the right to have access to factories that kissinger then oversaw so they did that to themselves but they never applied it to the the muslims they never applied it to their ethnic minority groups they never applied it to the tibetans so they only applied it to the han chinese which they then finally ended in 2015 when they realized how much self-mutilation they conducted on themselves so there's no more one-child policy however they didn't do it to the muslims the muslims as well there's 26 000 mosques today in xinjiang which per capita is more than any other non-muslim country in the world more than the united states as far as people per capita having access to mosques that's more than the usa it's more than any country in europe even though europe is being flooded by george soros's operations to get you know a bunch of muslims whose countries we bombed we bombed to the stone age who can't live there anymore who were then being sent in and being deployed to create havoc in north america and in europe but despite that the per capita access to mosques is of the highest outside of any non-arab or any arab country uh muslim country the quality of life and job opportunities so a lot of these so-called concentration camps when you actually brian burletic actually is a former u.s he's a former u.s soldier who now lives in thailand and has a great channel called uh new atlas and his analysis of both the ukraine front as well as uh the the uigur genocide claims is impeccable okay he's the most rigorous guy i know brian burletic new atlas youtube he's good just type in china uigur you'll find hundreds of videos he's the most rigorous guy i've found who's debunked the idea that there are these concentration camps the the information that they're using is based upon selective data from satellites that ignore shit tons of data that that would disprove the claims that they want as an outcome um you have trade schools and you have economic like new industrial corridors tons of jobs being built like i said in in xinjiang entrepreneurialism is increasing massively and they're not losing their culture you have everyone there is is still in as part of the education system the local dialects and cultures are still being taught at the same time as they're also learning mandarin at the same time as they're learning for the first time real skills that are giving them job opportunities so they don't want to blow themselves up because they have no hope for the future so that's something that's going on which is pissing off a lot of the cia front groups around the national endowment for democracy of which i list many of them in in my special report um that are also tied to british intelligence and australia um on the organ harvesting thing that's a whole thing that that's gonna require we go into falangong which is yeah and i actually was gonna bring on falangong you say they're the next uh thing you're gonna cover in your ufo series so maybe i should just wait till that is out but yeah falangong i only hear about them in the context of this being the group that is having their organs harvested you call them an asian ufo cult so i assume you don't like them all that much but i i know this is a lot to unpack but i appreciate you at least unpacking the uyghur thing that is a framing that i've never heard it does make logical sense when i'm following what the globalists tend to do so yeah they are responding to a problem that was created by the globalists and the medallers that's a story as old as time so many things seem to be that but it's framed as just a racist oppressive we just don't like these people so they're now in concentration camps and it seems to be like a lot of things the story needs to be started earlier to see how that problem arose and who actually started the problem rather than crying wolf and being like hey look at this as you say it's very hypocritical given all the things our country does but man really interesting i still have so many questions even about tesla i don't even we went so far off the map from even yeah that was a whole point we were going to talk about tesla uh your work is so dense and deep and i've spent all week trying to package it up into somehow getting a lot of things into a two-hour conversation and uh well people will judge how we did but tell people where they can dig deeper into the many irons in the fire that you have give them your links and all that good stuff yeah thanks man yeah this is this is a fun way to start my day this is cool um yeah no i so i guess for the plug yeah plug so revenge of the mystery cults volumes one two three i did them all at the same time um and i published them before last christmas uh so those are all easy to find on canadianpatriot.org that's my main geopolitical website um also just amazon i guess you can just google revenge revenge of the mystery cults with my name um clash of the two americas that we've referenced a little bit also that that quadrology is is on there and also i would say science and shackled is a book i wrote two years ago going through sort of the clash of the two sciences from ancient times to the present in a bit more detail so that complements i think the revenge of the mystery cults and some of our dialogue that we've had today about isaac newton as a fraud and and you know this all this other stuff the the movies the hidden hand behind ufos there's four episodes that are already out three are free one is paid behind like a four dollar pay paywall sorry but i just realized it's gonna we're gonna go bankrupt if we didn't do that so um yeah so that's that's available also on either canadianpatriot.org or my substack which i i put out stuff regularly um last thing is rising tide foundation.net is a little non-profit i started in canada with my wife uh back in 2019 with a bit more of an educational focus so yeah those are those are things to check out awesome well i appreciate your time yeah we didn't even talk about the fact that you're canadian and you've described canada as a synthetic british intelligence operation that sometimes has country-like moments but is essentially just a plaything of the same old globalists and that's a whole nother thing so yeah maybe sometime we'll do china and canada and uh the belt and road initiative and all that but this was enjoyable uh so many things to think about and re-examine uh my perspective on many many things i took for granted so thank you and take care thanks bye sweet severance season two people what a show i don't know why you're listening to me unless of course you finish severance and then i guess it makes sense okay now this one was pretty interesting to me i think i'm walking away more confused in some ways about the guest's actual big picture positions on the things we talked about than usual he clearly knows a lot of historical information and links between certain people that a lot of other researchers miss but i had an outline planned here that is totally off from what actually happened and it did feel a bit like a whirlwind i do have to give him major props for being such a good speaker and having such excellent recall those things are a killer combination but i've never heard a person link so many alternative minds together and come out so hard against the occultists in the shadows engineering reality and then say my gold standard is ben franklin and there is no reality to the occult honestly it kind of sucks because i do all this prep work and i had plotted out okay i'm going to ask about tesla which is going to lead us into the conversation about mars and certain people who claim to have communications from beings that live on mars and that's going to lead us into the idea of seeding aliens as an inevitable darwinian evolutionary outcome which is a part of his work i actually liked a lot and we didn't even talk about that he thinks darwinian evolution and the humans from apes idea was seeded to explain our past and then also the archetype of the alien the gray i guess was created to push us towards that future or to see this sort of space communism of drone-like hive-minded collectivist beings with no personality or emotional depth that would be the other bookend which you know is a compelling premise looping in hg wells and the war of the worlds radio play as not an accident but an intentional live drill and then i had some fun stuff to branch off of that but matt threw so much information into his responses that it got a bit tough to be methodical or i would ask about tesla we get 10 minutes on sir isaac newton the babylonian witch very interesting but i'm not going to ask about tesla again i want to kind of move on to the other things on the outline so it just seemed weird to me to lump in tesla and isaac newton because history handles them both very differently especially pre-internet one was suppressed and his work destroyed and the other one they teach us about in schools as the hero of modern physics kind of different framing there so when i'm judging if something is part of the cultural social engineering op i consider greatly how much energy is put into promoting a person above their peers tesla edison sure another paradigm is well rudolph steiner compared to other christian philosophers wilhelm reich we know was imprisoned so that speaks for itself and matthew is highlighting some pretty obscure people as the nefarious influence over time and that really doesn't mesh all that well to me also the society of cincinnati i hear them more often described as like an american knights templar usually a force for negative influence some of you might know jj vance and he just wrote me up a big explanation of his work into the group and he doesn't consider them all that favorable just so many areas where matt would zig where a lot of other researchers zagged and it would throw me off but i was still engaged with it if that makes sense another mistake i made was assuming he was christian but i went through hours of his work and he never really claimed any metaphysical or spiritual ground and i just want to know because i want to understand the logic of where a person is coming from because when a person says something like tesla might have built warden cliff tower so crowley could speak to his handler rudolph steiner without detection and then he has this attitude of anything alternative science psychedelic mental phenomenon or a cult adjacent is all negative and subversive well those people tend to be christian or christian adjacent if this then that right you know it's like a flow chart thing and i don't even blame them i just want to know where a person is and all the pieces of their logic tree and it was kind of hard to get that out of matthew maybe he sensed a disagreement and didn't want to make it about all that i could understand that attitude i have it myself sometimes but he said he's a platonist and i would have even wanted to dig into that a little bit more because platonism to my understanding those people do believe in a spirit world to a degree or a perfected realm of forms as it's usually described and our physical world is an imperfect reflection of that so he's not a materialist but he's skeptical of all non-material phenomenon and it was just hard for me to square those two things i guess he's done a great series on the hidden hand behind ufology but my humble opinion is that the crucial flaw in it is that he concludes it was all made up from nothing and i would conclude that the dynamics of a complex almost eternal relationship with non-human intelligence interacting with us was co-opted and managed to fit within the tight little box of beings from some other planet so we could both agree on the evolutionary track element i mentioned earlier so like that is great but really the conclusions there that's a huge distinction and yet i can still get a lot of value out of his series so who knows i could be wrong too that's just where i am today but it's strange logic to me to dismiss all psi effects remote viewing and psychedelics and occult mechanisms and then say that the people engaging with this stuff and promoting it are the real nefarious force the real shadow hand the real power behind the curtain because i think they engage with these things privately and suppress them culturally because they actually work the cia studied all this extended consciousness stuff because it's real not because they wanted to seed in very obscure subcultures that never really went anywhere these ideas it's not really like promotion in the same sense of like mainstream ideas are promoted again especially pre-internet you had to really dig to get into this stuff so i don't know despite that stuff i still think it was good mentally stimulating action-packed really chock full of information i actually felt inadequate in defending my own position several times because i largely just wanted to let him talk and try to understand exactly what he thinks about what's real and what's fake and i think he writes off a lot of real stuff just because unsavory characters have explored it that's common in the plus show is where we got to talk about ufology a little bit where he did say he thinks it's a whole fabrication not just a changing of the wrapper but that nobody has these experiences and if they do he suggested that they would have been drugged by intelligence agents or chloroformed or maybe even pricked with a psychedelic to be tricked and made to believe they had this kind of experience and man i don't think you can put it all in that box though i do think that has happened we call them my lab experiences but to put it all in that category dismisses so much that came before the cia and from areas of the world way outside the cia's purview there's just really so many examples when you dig into it it's just like it can't all just be that another thing i did think was really interesting was the china stuff lots to unpack there too what he said about the uyghur situation it kind of makes sense but on the other side they say it's a genocide to the tune of millions and he says they're being given better lives and being de-radicalized and provided new opportunities it's kind of hard to decide because those things are so far apart it's tough to rectify but i do find it interesting that no one ever really asks who the uyghurs are or if there's any justification to control them or if the cia was involved in radicalizing them like that was really important context we just tend to say china bad so of course they would treat a minority like this we don't really think much further than that it's very similar to the russia ukraine thing well russia invaded ukraine and that's the start of the story never mind all the meddling that was going on beforehand trying to loop them into nato trying to put the bio facilities there the coup that happened a few years earlier you know you start circling someone with threats and they might preemptively cross over their property line and be like what are you doing over here and that's not the same as like invading them because you're just a bloodthirsty egomaniac as is presented i'm really curious to know what the reviews will be of this one and i'm going to lean on that rating system heavily here to see if you guys want more if you want a china focused interview because i'm kind of lost when it comes to my general interpretation of how this will be received he did write me a follow-up email though with some thoughts that i want to read because it's very important that i feel that we didn't misrepresent anyone and that guests come across as understood by the audience so in that interest uh let me read what he said we sped through so many ideas yesterday which deserved more convo i just wanted to toss out some points of clarification on a couple of underbaked notions that i didn't get to elaborate on on the oto being rosicrucian if you asked an oto follower they might not say yes and they are certainly not officially a rosicrucian order however in my reading of these institutions rosicrucian orders are intrinsically secret and if someone says they're running a rosicrucian order publicly then they're probably not actually in a genuine rosicrucian order but a lower order decoy which most of its members may fully believe is rosicrucian since they do study paracelsus d flood zorzi hermes trasmagestus cabala and gnostic literature etc and they certainly carry out a variety of rituals as well but again if they have membership cards and publicly extol themselves as rosicrucian then they are not the real deal however rosicrucians as a species type have some invariant qualities in that one they profess that their adepts have the power through gnosis and initiation to channel spirit entities and ascended masters who are part of a great brotherhood of immortals two that these powers of communication are teachable only if someone has divine blood according to eliphas levi who i treat as one of my authorities on the subject which is why there is such an obsession by so many adepts to prove they have aristocratic blood this ties into one of the self-organizing myths of the oligarchal class that the royal families of europe are to varying degrees descendants of jesus's babies via the merovingian clans oh and by the way that jesus was actually the avatar of the sethians lucifer spirit contained in the nagamati texts who delivers secret oral teachings to his favorite initiates and or are more earlier the progeny of the demonic entities of elohim nephilim and can thus interface with elementals and archons to do their bidding like their demon controlling version of solomon was able to do when he controlled the army of demons to build his temple which is outlined in the 13th and 14th century templar crafted testament of solomon which initiates wish to believe is ancient although this has been given a ufo rebranding in the last century i think this belief has been consistent across the last two millennia at least but likely way longer back they are also animated by an obsessive belief in a global alchemical reset or new golden age slash new dawn whatever necessitates a period of cataclysm and a creation of a new type of humanity and global paradigm which isn't a healthy one in my estimation so from that standpoint at least at the moment in my research i would put the oto as led by kellner russ and later crowley as part of a direct lineage of the templar tradition and which fits the mo of true rosicrucianism although they are all still quite disposable in the grand scheme i would place the integral fellowship of the maha kha kra aka the circle as more influential than the oto although it is possible that at the higher degrees they are one although still disposable more influential than the oto i would place the highest degrees of the memphis misram lodge system which bolvatsky had been initiated into and which kellner was a member with russ this is an 1880 update of the cagliostro egyptian right who i believe was a much more legit rosicrucian order although ultimately disposable too you'll notice i'm placing emphasis on the disposability of these various agencies right crowley burns out as a drug fiend russ becomes a pathetic shill cooed by crowley after adopting crowley's sex magica cagliostro is disposed of and dies in jail edward kelly john d's control who i suspect was handling d also goes out badly bulwer linton also lives a long time and is hugely influential but a clear drug fiend and not able to control himself personally i think the whole thing is a game within a game since the cult engineers who spawned rosicrucian in the form it took after 1614's fama and 1616's chemical wedding were themselves part of the same organization which suffered a blow in 1314 when demolay was burned but the templar order itself was created by a higher benedictine grand strategy via bernard de clairvaux that also spawned the hospitaliers the esoteric inner sanctum of the benedictines get us closer to the movers of the movers this involves looking into the cults of isis demir and especially mithra from a counterintelligence standpoint a lot of this is in volume one of my revenge of the mystery cults mystery babylon and the new age lastly just to make this point clear as possible despite the narratives of dame francis yates and so many others that the rosicrucians spawned the renaissance and modern science via their invisible college royal society i deny it the evidence points to the opposite they are responsible for infiltrating and subverting both the renaissance and science with the help of their co-created jesuit mere image grail knight jedi verse evil sith shit joseph campbell and young were all over this so then i said to him i know it was a whirlwind i had a handful of things i really wanted to hit because i figured that's where the audience would most be interested but time management got away from us i do a wrap up after each episode i'll be sure to pass this along to the listeners if i'm kicking myself for leaving something out it would be that because i get the impression you don't subscribe to spirits manifestation occult techniques actually working the way they're advertised do you think these people just have been in a cult of ideas that don't really have any basis in reality i'm not a practicing occultist of course but it seems like these are very effective people would they really adopt superstitious beliefs that don't deliver some results isn't the depth of knowledge in the occult and the consciousness slash reality relationship partly responsible for their effectiveness and success and power over time i'm just curious what you might say however brief you know i didn't want him to spend a whole lot of time on this but he came back and said for the moment what i can say is that i have seen no evidence of supernatural engagement that was not tainted by magicians trickery the art of making the true appear false and the inverse occurred in both physical and metaphysical domains simultaneously with the metaphysical i.e the domain of epistemological warfare having been treated more responsibly by plato in the course of his dialogues in the art of sophistry harry houdini frederick schiller and poe's work on exposing this trickery on both meta and physical levels is also highly relevant a lot of this was contained in my three volume or my volume three revenge of the mystery cults and my wife's work on frederick schiller's 1798 ghost seer is extremely valuable too i'll put the links in the show notes also my 2023 book science unshackled restoring causality in a world of chaos gets it all this from another angle it also deals with your questions of theosophical irrationalist reading of sacred geometry versus actual divine geometry which is actually all geometry properly understood as derived from pythagorean spheres man so again it's like i have to go line by line and be like oh i agree with that or i don't really get what you're saying there like it's like a real whipsaw of ideas to me so those are at least some leads for people who want to get to know matt's work better anyway in higher side news we are in the new two-tiered reality of thc plus and thc plus tv that is about the biggest thing i have going on just trying to manage a more complex system but so far so good obviously this plus show was super packed and that is where we disagreed a bit more obviously as you go on that naturally is going to happen he said he had a lot of psychedelic mushroom experience and that's another thing i would have liked to have heard more about but i always have the clock in mind you know two hours is two hours either way i appreciate his time and coming on so well prepared and presenting himself so well as we do we got to dust off the last episode and see what the rating was and this would be john perkins the economic hit man himself i loved it i thought our rapport was really good and he came off pretty likable and of course that should be expected with his background kind of professional likability and persuasiveness and it seems like the people liked it too had i recorded it yesterday this show would have been a perfect five stars but right now it's a 4.9 who cares that is crazy very rare to have a show rated so high universally loved and that's great because he did come in pretty soft on usaid and a few other things but again we don't need people to check every box on some ideological checklist and clearly a lot of listeners still liked it even with those caveats all right and then next on the docket as always is a look at the meetup calendar which i got right here next on the list is july 5th the roswell new mexico meetup during the ufo fest at the blackcock brewery july 16th ontario ranch california at the brew haven location there and then july 16th nolo in new haven connecticut and then they're getting together on july 20th at the crooked queue in colorado springs colorado where i was born and july 21st gail breath's ale house eden terence auckland new zealand that one keeps coming around again awesome stuff though i'm glad people are getting together higher side meetups.com to make events and find details about the ones i just read out and you can meet new like-minded locals thanks for listening thanks to matt for spending the time with me i will catch you on the next one i've done my part your move tesla archetype engineers alternative culture creators and ufo psyop cedars your fucking move is it accidental how things end up or is life ritually planned right from the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump the jump