Matthew J. Bell | Twilight Language, The Rebirth of Pan, & The Occult Advisors Of The Ruling Class

It's puppet masters, almost surely, there's clearly maybe something there, beyond the... Coming in like a wrecking ball from the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And in this world of constant input, it's hard to even gather your thoughts about anything. If you're not working, planning your next meal, sitting in traffic, or staring at blue light through one screen or another, you're probably asleep, maybe in more ways than one. But the point is that flooding your zone with a constant bombardment of unnecessary stimuli is strategic, because Christoph does not want Truman asking the big questions or thinking too deeply about anything. Not how he came to be or where he is, not the matrix of numbers and symbols that overlay everything across time and space, not the strange synchronicities that pepper themselves throughout one's life and major events, definitely not the powerful flows of energy, ether, psi-effects, and certainly not will or manifestation. Yet there are those who call themselves the synchromystics, who have picked up on an oddity of ordering that wells up around certain events, whether natural or ritual is still debated and probably always will be. But threads of similarities in name and number weave through pop culture and major events in a way that seems directed and intentional, yet almost beyond the control of any occult cabal that might want to engineer reality with such elegance and detail. So what really are we to do but observe and at least try to unpack what it all means? And here to do that today is Matthew J. Bell returning to THC after a wildly popular show just three months ago. If you recall, Matthew is a friend and protege of some of the best to ever do it, namely Michael Hoffman and Jim Brandon, and through folding in their insights with his own, he ended up taking us deeper down the synchromystic rabbit hole than many others could. You can find his work at thesynchromystic.com as well as The Synchromystic on YouTube, and he writes regularly at MatthewJBell.substack.com. I'm psyched to be doing it again, sure to be another wild one. The synchromystic scribe of Substack, the pattern parser, and conspiratorial decoder ring wearer, Mr. Bell, my good man. Welcome back. Oh, wow. Well, thanks again. It's a pleasure to be back. I'm looking forward to it, and your introductions leave me speechless, so. Ah, too kind. So in case people forgot, last time we had isolated a few of your posts we planned to focus on, and we just went so far off script that we barely even touched on them, and that's fine. It's nice to have a plan just in case the conversation doesn't lead itself. Well, but now we can revisit those things, elaborate on some points we might have glossed over, and talk about the work you've put out since then. But to get the ball rolling, you said in our emails that you've been thinking a lot more lately on that question of what evidence really pushed you firmly into being a synchromystic and adopting it as a worldview position. I don't want to retread the same ground, but as a reintroduction for people, I'm curious what else you might have to say on that with the added time you've had to reflect on it. Yeah, I appreciate it. And the way that I approach the question is, what evidence? And I suppose when you think about this question, there's really two ways to understand what's being asked. One way is a list where I'm going to give you a bunch of examples of synchronicities, whether they're personal ones or whether they're ones that anybody can access like that have to do with the JFK assassination or 9-11 or something. And what I was thinking is that it's really the worldview orientation that a person has. And I know we spoke at length about this last time people commented on it, and I was gratified that a lot of people resonated with them. My thought is that if you're talking to somebody who has no sympathy with synchronicities or that way of thinking at all, it really doesn't matter. Like when you think to yourself, what would I say to them to sort of bring them on board? If they're unmoved, say, by some analysis of the JFK assassination, of the level of that was achieved by, say, James Shelby Downard, Michael Hoffman, for example, and King Kill 33, or if you go to Kent Bain and his detailed analysis of 9-11 and Most Dangerous, if that doesn't move somebody, then what am I going to say? Hey, before I did my interview with Greg Carlwood, the car in front of me had a license plate that had the letters THC. Okay. Well, I mean, no one who's not moved by the JFK details is going to be moved, I think, by that extra fact. And is that a true fact, by the way? Yes. Wow. But, you know, really, I'd like to do an analysis of that, and this is not the time to sort of shoot from the hip on it, but we did talk, I think, a little bit about the fact that some of the paradigmatic examples of synchronicity, you know, like Jung's Beatle, really have a very sort of personal, it's not clear that they apply to very many people, whereas the JFK syncs really do. So the first thing I was thinking is that if somebody wanted evidence that would maybe give them a reason to think there's something to it, one of the important things would just be a detailed case study, and we have those, that would be the first piece of evidence. But the second piece, I think, would be to point out that really credible, at least compelling thinkers, people like Jacques Vallée, or people like Carl Jung himself, people like Arthur Kessler, these people take this seriously. Now, that's not an ironclad. It's not like, oh, if Jacques Vallée says it, it must be true. Not at all. But it's that, you know, Jacques Vallée holds, I believe, two PhDs. I mean, you know, the guy is not an intellectual lightweight, nor is he obviously taken with kooky ideas. The point is, is that there are respectable intellectuals who take this seriously. That's a piece of evidence. If you were to be talking to somebody who thought, oh, there's nothing to this synchronicity, well, okay. But Carl Jung thought there was, and he's a epoch-making psychologist. The third thing, I guess I would say, is there are very few worldviews. And actually, this is, I swear I'm not trying to sneak in the twilight language analysis that I did. But when you think about the different worldviews that are available, something theistic, where there's, you have some belief in God or a higher power, that could be personal God, like say in Christianity or in Islam, or it could be more pantheistic, you know. Those are both theisms in general. Or a person might tend towards a more naturalistic view where they don't believe in supernatural. Well, depending on your worldview orientation, it's going to be less likely or more likely that these synchronicities are going to find a place. I mean, if there is a world populated with gods and angels or demons or something, then I think synchronicity in general, as it might be explained synchromistically, has a plausibility that it might not have if you simply believe as, you know, what Hugh Jackman's character in the movie The Prestige says at the end when he's about to meet his maker, so to speak. You know, he says the world is solid all the way through. In other words, there isn't any room for magic. He's admitting this, The Prestige is about these two magicians, right? And he's basically saying to Borden, played by Christian Bale, there is nothing. We lie to people essentially, but we try to make them forget that the world is solid. Well, if that's your worldview, you're probably going to be a hard sell on synchronicity. You're going to think that it's got something to do with the quirks of our mind rather than anything objective in the world. So anyway, not to dwell or delve too deeply into the analysis part of this, but that question really got my gears turning. And I've been thinking about it. I'm like, the jumping off point, just to repeat it, was the evidence that I think I would want to state isn't just a laundry list of synchs. Because a person who doesn't believe in synchronicity or sees no reason to believe in it, I don't think is going to be impressed even if we came up with a new sync every day. Do you know what I mean? Like, if we just kept adding on synchs, they're not going to buy in. Well, that's the funny thing, because I'm just the exact opposite. I'm open-minded and more and more examples push me more into, yeah, this is a thing. But one of my criticisms has always been, we're looking at like the same five events through the last hundred years and being like, look at the high degree of potency to JFK, to 9-11, Wisconsin, Oklahoma City bombing, and I start to think, well, if this is a real phenomenon that's natural, then why isn't it everywhere? And as you say, there are personal examples that come up, and the less personal ones should make an impact on turning more people over. But if they have the perspective that, well, it's just about where you focus your attention, and if you look at something hard enough, you'll always find patterns and coincidences happen, yeah. A list of examples, especially ones that are 10 years, 15 years apart, aren't going to move the needle for those people. But I do like the point about leaning on bright minds to say to someone, hey, you're so close minded on this, but Carl Young wasn't close minded on this. Do you think Carl Young's an idiot? So I had to do that kind of argumentation during COVID, like, hey, the guy who invented the PCR test said, don't use it for this purpose. You think he's crazy? How about you stop listening to the news? Anyway. That was Cary Mullis? Was that the name? Cary Mullis, yes. And he had a weird Fordian event, too. He saw an electric raccoon on the beach. These things are so strange. And they happen more often than we realize. But the big examples, and that's why, like, we were talking before we got started here about, like, the CIA's involvement in twilight language and synchromysticism, at least just investigating it or seeing if there's something to it. But yet the examples we use are always like these highly suspect conspiratorial events that then take on another layer when you add in the details that are scattered over them. And that's what brings me to think, like, maybe there's something natural going on. But when it's all these events that intelligence agencies would be involved in planning and news organizations would be involved in promoting, now some red flags go up. You know, maybe this is something that's controlled. You say in that piece, Twilight Language, Twilight invokes kind of a dream-like liminal space, this kind of dreamy space where it's very close to the states they want you in with MKUltra and that kind of stuff. So now we're talking about something very similar, wouldn't you say? Yeah. And just to try in my way to pull those two thoughts together in general, and that is that actually I'm tempted to the view, although I'm not going to press it too hard. That there's literally two different types of phenomena that are typically called by people who are sympathetic synchronicities. I actually think there might be two different phenomena going on. You asked the question of naturalness. Well, I don't think there's anything, say, natural about a lot of the syncs that can be called and collected regarding things like 9-11. I think those, in a way, are like what Gary Lockman, the way he put it, the ex-Blondie drummer who turned into a, you know, like he's a very perceptive historian and he writes about esoteric topics and people in the occult. But he referred to magic several times as induced synchronicity and that magicians, quote unquote, are in some cases trying to induce that. Well, we have to sort of think about what do we mean? What's our standard for what counts as natural? Is what counts as natural that which does not require any human intervention? It would just happen on its own. That's one way we could mean it. Or it could mean it's within the power of human beings to do. That's another way of understanding it. But of course, those two are slightly different. And I actually think synchronicity has a foot in both of those camps. I think there are some synchronicities that just sort of by the natural course of events just unfold. And I also believe that there are other synchronicities that are induced in that way using human or even possibly extra human, if you like, agency of some kind. And again, this is all just sort of slapdash. But this is the direction that I would take a part two of that Twilight language. This is one of the questions that I'd really like to explore. Yeah. And in my mind, when I say natural, I do think something that can happen in an undirected way, like that license plate in front of you. You know, the CIA wasn't reading our emails together, knowing we were going to do an interview and then placing weird things in front of you to get you paranoid. I think of it like a force-like gravity, not to repeat myself too much, but a force-like gravity is something that is there and then it can be played against by human beings. So that's how I think of synchronicity. It is a magnetism, a gravity to certain potent things that exists and does happen on its own, but then it's also a force that can be played with, you know, like Lego blocks. You know, you can see that the Lego blocks come together in certain ways and then you can actually do all kinds of things with them if you're skilled enough. So I think it is kind of a both and, but we talked a good amount about Michael Hoffman last time, as well as Jim Brandon. And I reread the Rebirth of Pan recently. He has a great section on the animal guise about odd cryptids that defy logic and disappear suddenly like the one I saw did. And he notes that some even leave physical evidence, obviously, but oddly footprints that are way deeper and heavier than any animal should be. I never heard that before, but he also talks about legends of magic rocks that kind of move on their own, the mound builders. I mean, when this book came out, nobody was talking about the mound builders and this is where it kind of relates to our conversations. He gets into the number 23, which he notes 23 and 33 seem like key ley line numbers and seem to weave in and out of these sorts of stories. For example, the dates of cryptid and paranormal sightings. This is so crazy. He says sightings of a phantom airship in England began on March 23rd, 1909. On December 23rd, an enormous cigar shaped craft with lights and wings and a brilliant searchlight appeared over Rhode Island. Some decades later, the airships metamorphized into sleek spaceships, but continued to appear on the 23rd of the month. He goes on to say the first Loch Ness Monster newspaper article was in 1933. The lock itself is 23 miles long. And one of the most well-known appearances, the sighting of Bill Wright happened on June 23rd, 1978. That's the kind of thing I love. I've never heard anyone else try to make something of a numerical pattern to strange sightings like that. It's amazing. Yes. Well, I'm trying to track along with you here. Let me just go slightly back just for a second, back to your comment about the force and you compared it to magnetism. Of course, that would bring immediately in Antoine Mesmer and his work on so-called mesmerism that led into hypnotism that then you could argue led into certain of the central intelligence agencies, mind control processes. And that is kind of riffing on, you know, this idea of the Lego blocks where there's this sort of natural potential in some techniques or, you know, whatever in the human mind, there's a kind of capacity to fit it together with certain ideas or however you want to think about it. Now, the license plate idea, you know, Hoffman in a post that Loren Coleman once made on his web blog, the point Hoffman made was things like the license plate, in his opinion, obviously they don't have the same importance, but he thought that we have to be careful to filter. And he called for a filtering process whereby we would be able to discriminate synchronicities that are due to our peculiar human way of looking at the world. If you look at a rock formation, you might see a face, you know, and psychologists will say, well, that's because human beings are adept at, you know, you just look at a random occurrence and you'll find some pattern there. So there is that cautionary note. But now moving on to the cryptids, the interesting thing there is just like there could be two possible ways of thinking of synchronicity, at least. I mean, maybe there's a million of them, but I mean, at least two. There's also a kind of a duality in terms of explanation for cryptids and that kind of phenomenon. On the one hand, you've got people like, what was it, Bernard Heuvelman or Loren Coleman is cut out of this cloth where he's a cryptozoologist, right? Cryptids to him, for the most part, are animals that if you could handle one or access it, you know, you could take blood samples and it would have tissues and organs and so on. Or on the other hand, Jim Brandon's work focused on sort of a more arcane explanation that there are manifestations of some, what he referred to throughout the book as the pan force. Now, of course, there you could ask the question, is this psychological? Is it spiritual? Right. And he doesn't come down definitively on one or other side of that. But those two ideas is that we're dealing with hidden animals, one that just has a really heavy step and is great at running from humans and keeping its existence unknown versus this manifestation of a pan force. Then, as you say, he brings in numerology. For the video that, and we were contemplating talking about, what, 10 mystery men or 10 secret adepts, and I realized in re-listening to it that it was my older son who actually delivered the narration for that in case people are wondering, like, hey, that's not the same guy. That's actually my son. Well, many years ago, actually, now, when he was very much younger, I had a script for numerology. And the basic premise of it was to sketch out, for example, like, the number 23. Okay, well, Jim Brandon has always referred to that as a 14 number. And the obvious reason for that is it goes back to Robert Anton Wilson and his Illuminatus trilogy where he actually identifies, and he wrote, I think, in 14 times, an article on the 23 phenomena. That was Robert Anton Wilson of Discordianism and that whole chaos kind of wavelength. But the number 23 has a definite 14 hue to it versus, say, the number 33, which you might think has a very definite Masonic orientation. And it's interesting that, say, the number 13, which is often thought to be bad luck, but the way that Jim Brandon always phrased it to me was that it was just a momentous number. It was a very heavy number, a weighty number. It's bad luck the way that, say, some practitioners of Jewish mysticism believe that you shouldn't use the name of God because it's too potent for you. You know what I mean? You're going to hurt yourself if you use it. So you have to use a euphemism, Adonai or whatever. But that's reserved for the addicts. That's kind of the way that 13 is handled. But anyway, the wavelength of numerology is one that, and the point I brought up about my son was I actually had him record this video years ago, but it was unusable because, you know, God love him. I was trying to involve him in the projects for various reasons. But I have the notes for that numerology thing and you triggered that in my mind. It might be time to resurrect that. So Jim Brandon was talking about the 14 aspect of, you know, some of those numbers and that would relate back to the work of Robert Anton Wilson, for sure. And it's funny that Michael Jordan's number was 23. Seems potent. Also, this is crazy, but this book was obviously written many years ago. And the main movie about seeing a pattern in things and a descent into paranoia because of it is Jim Carrey's the number 23. And he also, Truman Show, Jim Carrey's got an odd career. But I also wanted to bring this up too, because Jim writes about the quote UFO cult of Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Lou Nettles, which the name I was like, Marshall Applewhite, I know that name, but that's because it's Heaven's Gate. He doesn't say that in the piece, but it became known as Heaven's Gate and the ritual suicide everybody knows about that happened in the late 90s. But Rebirth the Pan came out over a decade before that. So it's just interesting that he touched on them well before they became so infamous. And the quote in the book says, then there was the UFO cult of Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Lou Nettles. Emerging in California, the two had meetings to gather recruits for a scheduled UFO flight. Beyond the Stars, when they finally dropped out of sight in 1975, after a meeting at Walled Port, Oregon, they took with them no less and no more than 23 volunteers for the passage to Magonia. Afterward, a number of cattle were found mutilated in the area. Man, I'd really love to know more about that situation. Just the things that Heaven's Gate was up to before the big event, as you could call it. And just Magonia, one of the most interesting topics, like this sky, city, just weird. This line in the book almost makes it seem like they took 23 volunteers to Magonia and disappeared. But clearly we know they didn't disappear then. But do you know much about that, the situation with these people before it became Heaven's Gate? I can't say that I do. I'd have to review that portion. But, you know, when you mentioned Magonia, of course, that should automatically bring to mind Jacques Vallée's Passport to Magonia book. And Jim Brandon, of course, is both analytical but also quite intuitive the way that James Shelby Downard was. So his fixing on those individuals is, as you say, it's quite astounding. The Heaven's Gate moniker is interesting because gate is one of those words that has, I mean, it's attached to just what Watergate and China Gate and Iran Gate and Russia Gate. And you've got all the political stuff. Stargate, which is another enthusiasm of Jim Brandon's. This idea of a Stargate, you know, there was a movie of questionable, maybe cinematic merit, but that has quite interesting aspects of that. When Trump, just after his inauguration, you know, he announced some $500 billion over the next few years devoted to artificial intelligence under the name Stargate. That was what he named the program. So gate as a word, of course, then you can get into Gates, like Bill Gates and Robert Gates of the CIA. I mean, there's just a bunch and I have notes for that as well. But in terms of Applewhite, so I can't speak to that case in particular, but there are parallels by my recollection of, you know, say, NXIVM or some of the things that have been in the news. And then that brings in the question of who's backing, which is one of the things that I guess Jim taught me is preeminent. When you want to look at something and try to understand it, one of the first questions you have to ask is, you know, who's paying for it? You know, so in the case of NXIVM, for instance, the involvement of Sarah and Claire Bronfman is quite telling, you know, because the Bronfmans go back to the Seagram whiskey slash gin dynasty. And by the way, they didn't start that. They bought it, I believe, around the time of prohibition from the Seagram family. And they've leveraged that. Edgar Bronfman was the head for a long time of the World Jewish Congress. The Bronfman family helped to fund the state of Israel. So you get into a lot of connections. Actually, I think the World Jewish Congress also involves Ronald Lauder of the Estee Lauder. I know one of the things on our menu was to talk about spiritual advisors. But when you think about the financial backing, Benjamin Netanyahu would not be where he is now without the financial backing of the Lauder family. And so there's a kind of an interesting overlap. But when we think about the nexus, say, of organized crime, intelligence, and some of these wealthy financiers. Les Wexner is an example, you know, who was the backer of Epstein. One of. One of. Right. Along with maybe the whole country of Israel and Mossad. And I mean, who knows? But if we don't make that point, there will be comments. Yeah. Right. Exactly. No, that's a great caveat. And of course, you know, Epstein himself, according to certain articles, you know, he was getting funding or at least passing it through JP Morgan. And of course, he himself came out of Bear Stearns. So it's not like he had nothing. But when you think about how do these families sometimes and how do these individuals get their initial seed money? I think back to the Bush family, you know, who got their money from the Union Pacific Harrimans. It was the Harrimans who backed the Bushes initially. And then obviously the Bush family was able to leverage that to a certain extent. But that story is common. They almost never self-made in the way that it's represented sometimes in media reports. But to Applewhite in particular, it is interesting that Jim was able to zero in on them. And especially that the word gate. Yeah. Was later associated. Well, just interesting that he wrote this book. mentions the number 23 being so important. And some of the most potent examples, like the movie and Michael Jordan, happened after the book. So I just find that to be further evidence that he might have been onto something. And a lot of those appearances of cryptids on those dates, it's like, what is that about? The cryptid phenomenon should not be read in on what the man-made date is. So maybe it's a consciousness thing. It gets weird. But yeah, let's jump to that thing about the occult consultants of today's elite. This is something I asked you about last time because we hear so much about these old examples. John Dee and Queen Elizabeth. Yeah, great. People a long time ago had occult consultants. Great. I'm happy to hear that. But let's talk about today. And a lot of times today, we just don't know. And there is a lot of overlap with the financial backing, too. Just another point about that. John Patash wrote a great book about a couple of things. But one of the threads in it is how the American universities, all of the big Ivy League universities, were basically funded by the black market drug trade, the international drug trade. And a lot of these universities still have halls and quads named after these figures. And they kind of erased the history of what built them up. But, you know, it's all like East India Company type of stuff. The Forbes family was involved in the opium. I mean, this was the opium trade that we got China hooked on opium as part of the opium wars. And the Forbes family comes out of this. The Coolidge family comes out of this. Many of them were donors. But then the other piece of that is a lot of other universities are simply land grants from state universities are often land grants or universities like MIT. They're funded because MIT and other of these, they used to train, you know, when people wanted to find coal, you need geologists to find coal. You need geologists to find oil. So these scientifically directed institutions like MIT were supposed to be the ones that trained the geologists to go out and help the oil companies find oil deposits. So, in other words, behind every fortune is a crime. Go ahead. No, I love that. I love that. That's a great T-shirt. So, yes, coming back to Occult Consultants for today's Elite Circles. When I asked you before, you mentioned that you do know some names, but you didn't have the working list in front of you. I told you I'd like to revisit it. Did you get time to look into that so we could elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah. So I have a couple of examples, but just to kind of prime the pump a little bit, I do want to make the point that we can think of this as occult advisors, but it's under the larger category of just spiritual advisor. And what's interesting about that is, say, Noam Chomsky, he wrote two books. I mean, he's written a million books, but he's written two books that are very well known regarding what he calls the propaganda model or the propaganda system. The first one is Manufacturing Consent. And he has stated in numerous places that that's a phrase that Walter Lippman used. Walter Lippman being, you know, a Wilsonian liberal who was one of the early people along with Edward Bernays and Harold Lasswell and others who started propaganda, what used to be called that. Now it's called Public Relations. But the second book that Chomsky wrote was called Necessary Illusions. And he credits, Chomsky says that's a phrase that comes out of a theologian, so-called, named Reinhold Niebuhr. And Niebuhr was referred to as the establishment theologian. And this guy was evidently advising very connected politicians. And as a matter of fact, when I was trying to reacquaint myself with some of this, you know, it looks like Barack Obama. I mean, Niebuhr was, I think, long dead. I didn't check his biographical dates. But Barack Obama supposedly said his favorite philosopher was Niebuhr. Well, OK, if you look at analyses of various speeches by George W. Bush. So but the point that I'm making is this idea of spiritual advice. And guess what Niebuhr is basically saying? Well, what does he mean by necessary illusions? Well, to hear Chomsky tell it, he's basically saying, look, there are the elite controllers of opinion, and then there are the masses. The masses would never go along with some of the things that you and I, you know, as elites know we have to do, yakety yak. So you have to use necessary illusions. Well, this goes all the way back to Plato in the Republic, the idea of the noble lie. This is what arguably some of the neoconservatives cut their teeth on is this idea. So anyway, just to prime the pump, spiritual advisors, we could get into people like that. Or here's another one of historical importance. This is Henry A. Wallace, who was one of President FDR, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's vice presidents. Of course, FDR won four times. And I think he had three different vice presidents. The first one, I think, was Nance. I'd have to check it. But the second was Wallace. And the third, of course, was Truman. And the reason why, if I understand right, Wallace was kicked to the curb was partly because, because it's quite interesting. Truman was, I believe, on the ticket with Roosevelt the last run. So Roosevelt wins in 44 for the fourth time, and then he dies in 45, and Truman takes over after having been vice president only for a very short time. And then there's, of course, the interesting run with Dewey that the Chicago Tribune reported that Dewey actually wins. But the fact is, Wallace, Mike thought, was like, well, why was Wallace? Well, there was a scandal with Wallace and what they called the guru letters, which was Wallace's involvement with a Russian mystic by the name of Nicholas Rorick, or sometimes it's pronounced Rarick. I've heard that name. Yeah, R-O-E-R-I-C-H. And the guy, Rorick, was a painter. He painted background scenes for Stravinsky for, I think, the Rite of Spring. There was a well-known production of the Rite of Spring where Rorick paintings were part of that backdrop. He did other paintings, you know, but his mystical side, he was connected to Wallace and evidently was giving him spiritual advice. And Wallace, of course, was giving him diplomatic cover. Rorick was somehow put up by the U.S. government to travel through Southeast Asia, supposedly under the pretext of looking for grasses that were drought resistant to help combat the Dust Bowl during the Great Depression and all that kind of thing. But Rorick, evidently, according to some analysts like Louis Buff Perry, a cryptologist who I tried to make contact with him once and was unable to do it, but Perry thinks, and it's quite interesting, that Rorick was actually trying to create an Asian union along the lines of what later developed into the European Union. But I say all that to say that Wallace, here's Wallace, and bear in mind, if Wallace had been the vice president when FDR died, he would have been the president of the United States. And yet his connection to Rorick, basically almost it implies that he was taking spiritual direction from the guy, like the way that Joan Quigley used to give spiritual direction, say, to the Reagan family, even to the point of setting dates for when Reagan would, or times a day when Reagan would sign a treaty or, you know what I mean, make his appearances. Now, it's arguable that Reagan really did not have a whole lot of agency. I don't know, it was a joke that he slept through cabinet meetings, you know, and his advisors really were the ones calling the shots, especially George H.W. Bush, the former director of Central Intelligence. But here's another interesting connection with the spiritual advisor wavelength. One of the ones that I would definitely write about is a guy by the name, I believe he was a Dutch extraction born in South Africa, just like the Musk family. Part of the Musk family, of course, comes from that orientation. But Sir Lawrence Vanderpost. And this guy, he's almost not known, but he was connected to Prince Charles, now King Charles the third. And when this guy died, Vanderpost, it was revealed after the fact that he was a sex predator, he was a Jungian, but he went on safaris with the then Prince Charles. He was an advisor, a political advisor to Margaret Thatcher, the British prime minister during the 80s, about the time when Reagan was president of the United States. The guy, Vanderpost, was connected to a group called the Bloomsbury Set, which was a kind of loosely slung group of artists and political figures who were challenging, quote unquote, Victorian British morality. But they included people like the writer Virginia Woolf and the economist John Maynard Keynes. Keynes, of course, was the guy who was instrumental at Bretton Woods. So installing that new monetary system going from Bretton Woods until Nixon essentially started to unwind it around 1968. He pulled the U.S. off the gold standard completely, closed the gold window in 71. So but anyway, Maynard Keynes' connection to Ben Keynes, by the way, was interested in alchemy. He purchased the alchemical manuscripts from Isaac Newton. And of course, Isaac Newton, well known in physics, but it turns out he actually wrote more about alchemy than he did about physics, if you can believe that. But the second thing about Prince Charles, King Charles III, and by the way, his name always has struck me as somewhat weird because the first King Charles, of course, was a steward, as was the second. And the first guy was beheaded. You know, so you'd think that I don't know how that works if you're a royal, but I'm not so sure I'd take a name after a king who was executed. But that's what, of course, happened to Charles I by virtue of entering into that commonwealth. But one of the other things about Charles, and this gets actually this is a tie in with the video on the Mediterranean islands, was that Charles was evidently a frequent visitor to Mount Athos or Holy Mount Athos, not an island, but a peninsula, northwest Greece, the Halkidiki or Chalkidiki Peninsula. And it's a male-only peninsula. The whole thing is like an open-air monastery. But the thing is, it's Greek Orthodox. And Charles is now the head, quote unquote, of the Anglican Church. So that led to speculation that he was converting to Orthodoxy. But here's another interesting thing is Mount Athos is supposed to be the repository or one of the monasteries there for a, quote, Yohannite manuscript that was once in the possession of the Knights Templar. Now, I don't know the details of this, but Yohannism can mean a lot of different things. But one of the things that is sometimes floated under that name is that John the Baptist was actually the Messiah, according to some of these Yohannite cults. And you remember maybe that the Knights Templar supposedly worshipped a head. That's one of the stories, that they worshipped a severed head. Well, some of the idea there is that it might have been the head of John the Baptist. And then if that's the case, if that manuscript, if that is the flavor of Yohannism, and I'm not for sure that it is, but if it is, and they have that manuscript at Mount Athos, well, that's quite an interesting tie-in with the Knights Templar. And by the way, here's another interesting thing. Charles has a habit of being connected to people who, when those people die, it's revealed that they're sex predators. I mean, Jimmy Savile is the other one. Jimmy Savile, the media personality, who during his lifetime, he was knighted. I think he was knighted personally by Charles. I might be mistaken about that. It might have been Elizabeth. But he was knighted around 1990. And after his death, it came out that he's probably the most prolific sex criminal out of Britain that they've ever produced. I mean, you know, so it's like the royal family has a habit of shielding sex predators. Prince Andrew being not the least of that in terms of his connection with Epstein. So, I mean, all these connections just, they just ramify. Jimmy Savile, by the way, came out of Radio Luxembourg. And here's another interesting thing. The Bank of Credit and Commerce International, the BCCI, this was one of the scandals in the 1990s, the bank was founded by a Sufi. And the guy's name was Abedi, A-B-E-D-I. This guy, financier, claimed to be a Sufi, which is the mystical, some would say even Gnostic strand within Islam. And the guy thought of his bank. It's said that when he would give speeches, say, to shareholders, he would pepper them with phrases about how God instituted the bank or how the bank is doing God's work in the world and so on and so forth. Well, BCCI, of course, laundered money for the CIA, for MI6. It was connected to Saudi intelligence. It was connected to Pakistani intelligence. They funded Saddam Hussein. They funded Gaddafi. You know, they funded Abu Nadal, the, quote, Palestinian terrorist, which ties back into the Epstein slash Lauder slash Bronfman funding of the state of Israel. And so, I mean, the number of connections here is just crazy. And Sufism, by the way, is really prevalent, believe it or not, in London, not least of which through a guy named John Godolphin Bennett or J.G. Bennett. Bennett was connected to G.I. Gurdjieff and his fourth way. But Bennett, I actually wrote about him for a video presentation titled Ten Occultists Who Were Accused Spies. Bennett was a fixture of that. And Bennett was connected to Sufism, as was this Abedi. Well, OK, the BCCI was registered in Luxembourg, same as where Jimmy Savile got his start. The BCCI also had branches, of course, in London and I believe in Karachi. But BCCI was connected to the Adnan Khashoggi, the arms dealer. And Khashoggi was connected to Dodi Fayad. And Fayad, of course, was Princess Diana's boyfriend, who both he and she lost their lives in that car crash in the 90s in Paris under that bridge, which was supposedly precipitated by them running from paparazzi or whatever. But the fact is, all these connections are kind of lurking in the background. Now I've lost. No, all good. I was just going to let you go. But a lot of stuff. So you started with Rorick and ended with Gurdjieff, which is funny because I know about Rorick through Gurdjieff, I believe, and Blavatsky. And I had to look it up because I was pretty sure this was a thing. So during the 1927 expedition to Central Asia, the Russian painter and explorer Nicholas Rorick moved towards the Gobi Desert in Mongolia, crossing the Kwaizdam Saltmarsh. Traditions reported by Madame Blavatsky and Gurdjieff, as well as the tales of local folklore, said it was the site of an ancient sea within which it was handed down that advanced civilizations now forgotten and legendary cities now buried by sands had developed. Yeah. Shambhala is where he was looking for. That's just another thing. This is another theme where the elite will tell us in school books that were as advanced as we've ever been in history is just a pile of rocks. And then we find that they do care about these old legends and trying to find old artifacts and that sort of stuff. And of course, you gave us some great examples there, took us back a couple of decades. When I was preparing for this, I was like, you know, not that there isn't plenty of talk about Trump, but one thing, it's so interesting, the Trump-Roy Cohn relationship. I mean, we're not going to go super deep into it here, but just the blackmail king, and then here's his protege, and now he acts like he might have a blackmail file. And then you got his MIT uncle who looked at the Nikola Tesla material when Tesla died and said, oh, there's nothing to this. But Trump has referenced his super bright genius uncle and things that haven't been released. Like he's made references like that. And then you got Ingersoll Lockwood writing those books about the adventures of little baron Trump, and then the last president. Now, what's interesting is there are other cycle models, like Martin Armstrong, the economist, who has this computer, Socrates, that is very good at predictive cyclical models. And there's other things out there to suggest that the United States might divorce in the next five to 10 years. That we might have had our last election with 50 states, as one previous guest of mine put it. I think that's too crazy to believe, because change doesn't happen that fast. It feels like we're already, I don't know, halfway there. It's just crazy. I can't imagine that being true. But then you have with this tariff situation, there are states that are like, hey, can we say we're not participating in that? Which is like the first step to being like, our government is separate from the federal government, which is, you know, it's right there that maybe you could see California split off or something. But regardless, we're talking about spiritual occult influences on a person. So I was like, well, who is Trump's spiritual advisor? Well, it's Paula White. So I didn't know anything about this Paula Michelle White Cain person. And of course, there is what's publicly available. And then there's the subtext. Well, she is an evangelical televangelist, but interesting things in her background that hit on some of the same old stuff. So she was born in Topilo, Mississippi, and her parents owned a toy and craft store. Donald and Myrna Furr's marriage began, that's her parents. Their marriage began to fail when she was only five years old. White's mother left Topilo and took her to Memphis. That's a highly charged city in a lot of the stuff that Downard talks about. But her separation from her husband and his subsequent suicide drove White, her brother and mother, into poverty. White's mother became an alcoholic. While she worked, caregivers looked after her daughter. White had said that she was sexually and physically abused between the ages of six and 13 by many different people on different occasions. White has said that during that time she suffered from bulimia. White's mother married a two-star admiral in the U.S. Navy, ding, ding, ding, when she was nine years old. Her family moved to Washington, D.C. Her stepfather was stationed at the National Navy Medical Center. And funny enough, she started a church founded in Tampa. So you have this woman named Paula White, who becomes the White House advisor. Her father's name is Donald, and she's Donald Trump's White House faith office person. I mean, it's all in her name. And then the child abuse. And then her mother marries someone who's in the Navy. The Navy is like, outside of the CIA, probably the second sketchiest organization. And her mother marries this guy when she's nine. She says she was abused up to 13. I don't know. But it's just so weird that someone with such a background in name and the themes that circle the elite is appointed to be like the spiritual head in his first term. I just found that interesting. Her dad's name is Donald. Her last name is White. She's the White House faith office advisor and a life of child abuse. It's like a lot of people who are abused as children for a decade commit suicide and die on the street, and we never know their name. Something weird happens here to some of these people. Well, Oprah, you know, has a similar story about abuse and that kind of thing. I mean, not that she's unique in that way, but obviously her rise is meteoric. But here's a couple of other things. You're right. Naval intelligence, again, another enthusiasm of Jim Brandon that I inherited. And in particular, one of the recent videos that I did, I mentioned the fact that when Woodrow Wilson had his stroke circa 1919 and his second wife, Edith, basically took over access and somehow became a gatekeeper, maybe making decisions that's still not known. The other key figure in that was a guy by the name of, I think, Robert Travers Grayson, and he was naval connected. I mean, the guy was a Navy physician, Wilson's main guy. But here's another thing you mentioned just in that rehearsal. And Paula White, by the way, her brand of evangelicalism is prosperity. There is something called the prosperity gospel and the basic upshot of this. And it's articulated by people like Creflo Dollar and Joyce Meyer, other people who the prosperity gospel, just in a nutshell, is the idea that if you have enough faith, then things are going to go well for you. They'll go well for you in terms of money. They'll go well for you in terms of success. And it's not all that dissimilar from Rhonda Burns' The Secret, which is obviously a culmination of things like Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. And I'm going to build something, too, because if you think about the connections there, Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich. Well, who's the other one? It's Norman Vincent Peale and the power of positive thinking. So you want to list off Trump advisors. Trump and Ivana were married by Norman Vincent Peale. Trump was essentially a devotee of Roy Cohn, who taught him the art of the deal, and Norman Vincent Peale, who taught him essentially that it's the power of positive thinking. So it's this idea that I'm a winner. It's the way that he presents himself. The marketing part of it comes a lot out of the playbook of Vincent Peale. And Vincent Peale, you could say, is kind of a combination of what they call new thought, which comes out of mind science, which comes out of mesmerism. And we just talked about mesmerism in the connection with the CIA. But Paula White, here's an interesting thing. And I'm just, this is just me reacting to what you said. You mentioned the toy store. You remember in the movie, Kubrick's movie, Eyes Wide Shut, they end the movie in a toy store and they show somewhat suggestively the daughter being led off to the side. I have notes to go into FAO Schwartz, right? FAO Schwartz, which is the company. And this is a very suggestive, the caveat is I'm not accusing anybody of wrongdoing. You know, this is just for informational purposes. But FAO Schwartz is extraordinarily connected. And that company, they're showing up. Now, you didn't say Paula White's family owned an FAO Schwartz. But my point is just that the connection with the toy store is rather interesting. But yeah, Trump also has associated himself with people like, I think the guy's name was Robert Jeffress, you know, a Baptist. This probably was facilitated by Pence when they were trying to give the impression that they were just respectable, conservative evangelicals. But really, you could think that Trump's orientation is Machiavellian per Roy Cohn's influence slash new thought slash mind science, meaning, as Rhonda Byrne puts it in The Secret, your thoughts are things, they manifest reality, you essentially speak reality into existence. Well, in the video that I did on alchemy, top 10 gold making alchemists, the concluding portion of that talks about how the Federal Reserve has essentially, and the Bank of England, has essentially done the creation of gold out of lead, if you like, by creating, and notice the word, fiat currency, you know, speaking into reality. What is our entire monetary system if not speaking into reality? And Trump is plugged in on that wavelength. So yeah, in terms of spiritual, and just another point about Rorick, not to derail the interesting tangents regarding Paul White and all of the sinks that you noted with respect to her name, but yeah, the Shambhala aspect of things ties in with Agartha, or what Blavatsky referred to as the ascended masters, the idea that there's a group of the Great White Brotherhood, the Mahatmas or whatever that run the things behind the scenes. And in addition to that, Rorick claimed that he was in possession of a stone, the Stone of Destiny. I got into this a little bit, I think, in the video I did on the Coronation Stone, because stone lore, and again, Charles III, I mean, was the most recent person to sit on this Stone of Stone, allegedly, as part of the coronation procedure. They sit on a rock. This goes all the way back to, man, I want to say maybe the 13th century or possibly before. But it's this idea that there's a stone, that if you're in possession of it, it gives you power. And one story was that it's a stone that was knocked off of Lucifer's coronet that he wore in heaven when Michael, the archangel, kicked him out of heaven. He fell to earth and his crown essentially broke and a piece of it fell. There's all kinds of lore that then spins out of this. The rock that Islam, the Kaaba, spins out of that, or the fact that one of the three powerhouse firms of finance in the world today, Vanguard, State Street, and Black Rock. So now you have the whole Black Rock lore. Anyway, I know now I'm just spinning out. But no, Paul White, you're right. I mean, so yeah, if you were going to name Trump's spiritual advisors, he's one of these people that has a bunch of them. But yeah, Roy Cohn would be one, even if he's an atheist. He's still a spiritual advisor. Norman Vincent Peale, Paula White, Jeffress. I probably have a few others that he was associated with. Wild stuff. I love just sitting back and hearing you go through a thread of many different connections and a very tangled web. I don't even know what to call this episode now, but I'd leave that to you because you did a great job with your other titles. And that's, I don't envy you in that case. Yes. How do you summarize? I know it's tough. I will say, Jim Brandon, you got to come talk to me, buddy. I love your work and I would love to make it happen someday. I don't hear very many Jim Brandon interviews out here on the internet these days. I mean, podcasts obviously blew up way after his time, but you would expect him to do the rounds because a lot of people would probably love to have that work resurrected. Yeah. To know that the legacy lives on. I mean, I told him and of course he's very self-effacing and the mentorship worked very closely with him. But the thing that I actually thought of, and I know he probably kind of rolls his eyes maybe if I say it, but you know, there was the movie, The Mask of Zorro, where Anthony Hopkins is playing Zorro. And the whole purpose of the movie was he's training a replacement, Antonio Banderas. And at some early stage of the movie, Anthony Hopkins says to Antonio Banderas' character, he says, there is a saying, a very old saying that when the student is ready, the master will appear. And that was my experience with Jim Brandon, my meeting with him. I even quoted that to him. And of course, you know, he does. But I really do. I think that his training was extraordinarily important for me in so many different ways. And what we're speaking about now is one part of that. Heck yeah. Well, I personally am ready. So Jim, if you want to appear anytime, I love it. So I know we're wrapping up here, but I got to ask you this question. So there's a guy I've interviewed before, Nathan Isaac. He runs a podcast called Penny Royal. I haven't talked to him in many years. I've been trying to get back in touch with him because now I'm super interested in the Downard stuff. And he was for a time too. He did a deep dive into Downard. And his conclusion is that Downard was a fabrication of sorts. Now, I know I've seen his picture and I know I've heard his voice, but Nathan Isaac thinks that people who are way smarter than Downard kind of gave him his ideas and used him as a public face for interesting ideas that they wanted to see, but not take on themselves. His evidence of this is that Downard never wrote a book alone. And Isaac, Nathan Isaac, he hired a private investigator to go and try to find out more about Downard. And apparently the private investigator's conclusion is that this is consistent with a person who is kind of a cutout of sorts. And that is such a weird claim. I know nothing about it, except that I read it on his website recently, and I can't seem to get in touch with him to ask him more about it. But what do you think about that? I mean, obviously, Ilana Freeland wrote the biography of Downard. And Downard's work seems to be kind of shepherded along by other people. I don't know. I mean, you never met him, though, did you? I believe he died in March of 1998. And that was several years before I really had any interest, any awakening, if you like to say it that way, of any of this stuff. I never did meet him. However, I have interacted with Michael Hoffman, I mean, going on 25 years. I mean, it's got to be. I've been aware of his work for that long. I mean, early on, I would have been just amongst a lot of people trying to reach out to him via email. But I have asked him this question directly. I've asked Jim Brandon this question directly. The answer that they give me is that Downard was a real guy. I mean, first of all... You've asked this question? I find that odd that you would even ask. Why were you curious about it? Why would you think such a thing? Right, because Hoffman, on his website many years back, and he's had several websites. The first one was, you know, Hoffman-info.com, and then it became Revisionist History. So I don't know what permutation of the website or if it's still available. But I remember him addressing this somewhere on the website. So the first time, it was not like I had thought, oh, Downard can't be real. It was rather that I saw that question tackled on his website somewhere, and he responded by saying he was real. And the answer I've gotten from both the two... And by the way, it's not that Downard never wrote a book on his own. It's rather that he never published it on his own. But who has published a book on their own? If you've published a book... I mean, maybe now through Amazon, you could just write it and put it up there yourself. But if you've got a publisher, you're not publishing the book on your own. Nobody publishes a book on their own. They all have to be edited. And in some cases, the editing is quite substantial. And in some cases, I think with respect to Downard, it's probably the case that the editing that was done was, for the most part, for readability and for style and possibly to restructure some of the points that were delivered in ways that might have presented them. Like today, I mean, if we were to go back over what we talked about and I were to say, let's publish this just as it is, probably it would make sense to bring... Bring together various strands. Like if I say, oh, I forgot about this and I add on something about Epstein or whatever, it would probably make sense to group all this stuff together. And I think so some of the editing that was done has that as a very plausible reason. But again, yeah, I never did meet Downard, but I take it that of the group of people that were closely associated with him, at least two of them that I've had... And by the way, Jim Brandon, I have literally... I checked this in my email. He and I go all the way back to 2012. I mean, so I've literally interacted with him going on 13 years. I've interacted with Hoffman for over 20. I don't have any reason to think that they're not being straight with me. It's a shame that Downard's files were essentially... I think they were left to his niece. And I believe that the files ended up being not preserved because the niece didn't have... Here we go. Yeah. Isn't it a shame? It's a real shame. And the thing is, Jim almost took them, but he didn't have at the time a means of retrieving them because Shelby Downard traveled in an Airstream, had all this stuff mobile. And essentially it was just like, hey, do you have a place for this Airstream? And at the time, wherever in the world, wherever in the country he was, Jim did not have the resources to get it, to keep it, to store it, to go through it. And it's a real shame. But also Richard Spence, I think we may have even talked about him. He was a professor. And even though, or still is a professor, he wrote an investigative look into Downard's life himself. If you look up Richard Spence and Spence, he concluded that while he couldn't... And he went back into genealogical records and all that stuff, his opinion, and I think an academic is probably better suited to this task than a private investigator. I mean, because a private investigator is going to specialize in, you know, what's... I mean, if Downard were alive somewhere today, you might hire a private investigator to find it. But if you want to know whether somebody in the past existed, you want to hire a genealogist, you want to hire a historian. And that's what Spence is. And Spence concluded that he likely did exist. Although he does say that some of the claims that Downard makes, like he's not saying, you know, yeah, he existed and everything that he said has my seal of approval. Because he admitted in a rather funny part of his first exploration, Spence, that I read about Downard. He said, his carnivals of life and death. That's the title of the book that Downard wrote first. He said it was so absurd to him when he first read it that he just threw the book against the wall. You know, he was reading it and was so upset by the claims, but he kept picking it up. And he said there was just something compelling about it. And he had to look into Downard. And I'm pretty sure about the name of the professor. I actually talked to the guy a few years back as well. I can't remember why, but it had something to do with Downard. And I asked him something, but my impression is that Spence concluded that he really did exist. And I would simply put it to you that, and I don't doubt for one second that Isaac, I mean, because, you know, let's face it, if we're standing on the outside looking in, we have no, I always say this, if you were to see a UFO walking out of your house right now, then you tell me about it, right? I mean, I've developed a relationship with you to a certain extent these last few times. I trust that you weren't lying to me. But at the same time, I might go, yeah, but maybe the light was bad. Maybe he got hit on the head. Maybe he was under the influence, right? So I wouldn't necessarily just accept the claim, even though I would accept at face value your honesty. But for claims that are in the past, we are certainly on the outside looking in. So I don't begrudge the antecedent skepticism one bit. And if he hired a private investigator and the investigator said, I would simply, in response to that, say that maybe a private investigator isn't the person that you'd really want to look into it. And if you want a fuller picture, look at the work of somebody like Spence, talk to somebody like Downer. I'm sorry, talk to somebody like Hoffman, you know, who's open and, you know, like, just ask him. I mean, I think Hoffman has been pretty available. Now, of course, you can say, well, he's lying. But that, to me, carries no weight. I've known Hoffman for too long to say that he's just conducted a massive fraud on this point for decades. Right. Well, you know, conspiracy people are going to conspiracy and they're going to wonder. And I should maybe look into this more because Richard Spence, he co-wrote Empire of the Wheel with my guy, Walter Bosley. So I have an in there, but I'm glad I asked because I am just intrigued by the fact that other people have asked this question. It's just odd. But man, what a whirlwind. Really, really had a good time talking to you. So in terms of trying to find some place to land on this crazy ride, remind people just about your ongoing work, where they can clue in to what you got going on and follow the sub stack, I think, which is the main thing you're doing now. Yeah, that's right. And the YouTube. But the other thing about Spence, I think Spence might have done the introduction for Stalking the Great Whore, which is the book that was based on a microfilm that, by the way, Jim Brandon had, gave it to Adam Gowrightly. And it was a massive undertaking. I mean, so Gowrightly deserves all the credit for that, going through that, editing it, digitizing it, creating a publishable work. But if I'm not mistaken, I think Spence might have written the introduction to it. I might be wrong about that. I think you're right. It came up. Yeah. But yeah, on my work, you know, the YouTube channel, relevant one is called The Synchromistic and the sub stack. I think it's MatthewJBell.substack. And I think once you land there, my other son set it up for me, I think initially. And, you know, I didn't necessarily choose the sexiest, so to speak, URL or whatever, but once you land on it, I think I do call it the synchromistic, so you'll know where you are. At this point, I'm really still just trying to build the initial audience. So everything I publish right now is free, you know, available to anybody. I haven't published anything there yet that has been restricted to paid subscribers. And I'm not trying to put the paid subscribers out by any means. I appreciate those few people who have so far sprung for that. And I think there might be a thing with sub stack once you publish it and it's been out for a while that they paywall it automatically. I'm not really sure about that. I haven't looked at it. But in the recent one that I did, Twilight Language, I even open up comments to anybody. I mean, you're welcome because I view this kind of as a, if you like, crowdsourcing to a certain extent, like I welcome feedback. But yeah, I am interested not just in the intuitive, in the symbolic side of things when we notice patterns, but also, to be honest, the philosophy of it, if you like. Because the thing I think is that what we also need are some serious thinkers, some people who can really take a look at this kind of phenomena and try to ask the question, what the hell is going on? And I think that this is what I have tried. Not that I'm unique. I mean, Michael Hoffman has done this. And to a certain extent, almost everybody who's taken up a pen about this has ventured into it to a certain extent. But I've tried to maybe, in some of my recent work, I try to keep my foot in both camps, both in the camp of, like you mentioned, the DC syncs. Okay, that's just, if you like, just a catalog of syncs around a certain event, that's what that is. And I have other videos that are like that. Then I have videos, or at least written pieces so far, that are more philosophical deep dives. Like, for example, in the Twilight Language piece, I mean, you can get ready for it. But it's like, I talk about metaphysical realism of a Platonic sort and of a Aristotelian sort. I talk about metaphysical conceptualism. I talk about nominalism. And then I ask the question, if you're a nominalist, if you're a realist, how would you explain Twilight Language? And that's kind of the piece there. And then in between those two are kind of things that my thought was really that I'm trying to create content that's more perennial. Because let's face it, once the DC collision recedes in memory, fewer and fewer people are going to be interested in it. So like, top 10 occultists of all time, or top 10 Mediterranean islands, my hope is that that kind of stuff might hold perennial interest to people, and anybody can come to it at any time. And it's not like going to be old hat. But I appreciate, I mean, like, your body of work is impressive. The fact that you've been able to carve out this niche, this ecosystem, I think you referred to it as. And it's to be credited. And of course, you made me laugh heartily about the word asset. But of course, in this case, I don't by any means mean intelligence asset. I'm not saying I mean that he is a credit, a great value to free thinking people who are interested in the truth and who want a community where they can tap into others. And I hope if there is a conference or something, and let me just, you know, if there's an in-person, a way that people of like mind might be able to meet, and I think there's value in that. I think it's underrated and even de-emphasized in such a time as we live in now where technology has become so ascendant. But I think that's sorely needed. It would be much appreciated by a number of people. And I speak from my circle that that kind of thing would be of great interest to some of the people with whom I interact. Oh, I love that. Yeah, that's just more fuel to have me act and put something together. Another thing to add to your to-do list, right? No pressure. Ah, it's fine. But I appreciate the kind words. I really just ask the questions and try to remember even a fraction of what gets said. But thank you for your time and all the great research. Of course, I never really mentioned this in interviews either, but lately, I always offer to make guests a plus account just so they can engage with the comments. And lately, a lot of people have decided they wanted to do that. You did it last time. So now maybe I'll say to listeners, if you have an actual question, you know, you obviously have his email. We just gave that. But if you have an actual question and you want to engage in the plus comments, he might pop up there. No guarantees, but it's a possibility. I tried last time because I appreciate the attention and I appreciate you offering, you know, your forum to me. And I truly appreciate everybody who was inspired enough by what they hear, whether it was disagreement or agreement. There were some lively exchanges in that forum and I appreciate it. I mean, I really do. So people aren't going to agree with everything. I think that's the important part about trying to build a community. It's not to build a bunch of parrots of people who just nod their head at the same time. So if you build it, they will come. I guess, you know, if you comment, I will do my best to, you know, react to address or comment on everything that is said. I mean, I'll put maybe I have to go back now because if there were other comments to that first presentation, I probably haven't seen them. But no, I would be happy to interact with people on that forum. And I would look forward to hearing people's impressions and reactions and so on. Yeah. Well, there you have it, people. Awesome. Mr. Bell, I just can't thank you enough. I appreciate the fact that we got connected and it's worked out so well. Put in a good word for me with Jim Brandon and I'll talk to you again in the future. I will really look forward to it. And I appreciate again. It was a great pleasure. Thank you so much. All right, people, that is what I'm talking about. Another great interview with Matthew J. Bell quickly becoming a new favorite of mine. He goes off in so many interesting directions, clearly a ton of knowledge that he has cultivated over years, largely just due to curiosity, it seems. I was glad we could revisit some of the stuff we missed last time and obviously talk about some stuff that even I was surprised by. I do have a real fondness for the rebirth of Pan and it's cool to at least talk to a guy who knows the guy. And that would be a bucket list interview for sure. Seems like a very hard Pokemon to catch, as the kids say. And I just thought it was so cool that he had so much to say about the overall theme of occult consultants to the ruling class or spiritual advisors, to use a broader term. There is probably a lot to learn by examining that stuff and those connections. I hope some people take that even further. But Matthew and I were talking a bit after the show about a few things we got into, like was James Shelby Donard a real person? And again, I never thought he was like a made up person exactly like a pseudonym. I've seen pictures and heard his voice, but maybe he was playing a character or maybe he was being given ideas and being put up as a bit of a front man for a group of people doing this sort of research or even trying to be pranksters, perhaps. I don't know. These are speculations that I read other places. But the voice on the Sirius Rising CD is definitely different from any of his known associates. And also the part when I was walking through the strange names of places like the Kennedy Mountains and Johnson Mountains, I said there was a part that I couldn't hear very well. Matthew said that he remembers that the other potent name in the mix was Hecate. I can't remember if I said that, but it's like Hecate Pass. Clearly another one of those potent gods that we just see bubbling up to the surface. And it's weird. Also cool to just talk to someone that's even aware of the Sirius Rising CD, because that is pretty obscure in its own right. Email him if you want some downward recordings. Anyway, really enjoyable. Even some of the topics I expected to be the main offerings on the table didn't get talked about until we were already an hour in. So they're in the plus show. Things like those mysterious islands of the Mediterranean no-go zones and the wild story of Scorpius, Howard Hughes, Jackie Onassis' father, and the Kennedys. We talked a little bit about the Franklin scandal, a little bit about the Promise software situation, autopsies and cover-ups and medical examiners in the network, and just how these things are done and kept secret. We got into CERN a little bit, and just a bunch of fun stuff. Great interview. Hope you found something to like. And if you only heard the first hour, come be a plus member. Seven-day free trial to get you going. Huge archive of great stuff. All ad-free. In Hireside News, man, we got a lot of things in the works, actually. I'm pretty close to announcing a huge upgrade to the show itself. Probably the biggest thing I've done since even starting plus. And really, there's only a couple things it could be, right? But chew on that for a little while, because this might all be radically different in 30 days' time. Don't worry. I think I know what I'm doing. And if I haven't been vague and confusing enough, let me put it this way. You have the option to choose for things to be radically different in 30 days' time when it comes to the presentation of the show. Or it can be exactly the same. So figure that out. But as we do, let's just skip ahead to looking at the plus rating of the last episode. This is the one with Gary Fraun. Numerology, the occult, language, spelling, maritime law, all these things were in the mix. I have not seen the rating yet, but I would guess it's around a 4.5. I did think it was good, but I also thought the conversation came back to how great a researcher he is instead of the details of that actual research. It happened enough that I noticed, and I know that people have previously had issues with that sort of thing as listeners. But I think the material is still good. The subject is still good. I think it's going to rank high. Let's take a look and see it. Well, it kind of did. 4.3. Average. But we have a high average, so I don't know. I do see comments that talk about what I just said and other comments that say it's their favorite interview in a long time. I guess we all, like, have our own different opinions or something. Well, I hope to bounce back a little higher than that with Mr. Bell. I really don't have any doubt. And as we do, the meetup calendar. Let's look at that, too. All right. Nothing for the next two weeks. We're going all the way to May 25th. Olympia, Washington. Three Magnets Brewing Company. Someone tell Ron Patton about that one. May 26th. Eden Terrace, Auckland, New Zealand. Gale Braths Ale House. June 1st. Huntington, Indiana. Heartland Harbor. Also June 1st. Champlin. Minnesota. It's going down at Elm Creek Brewing Company. And then June 8th. San Antonio, Texas. Halcyon, South Town. There it is. Go to HiresideMeetups.com to find more information about any of those that are near you. Or make your own and meet some new people in your area. Over a mutual love of a very obscure, weird show. It's a beautiful thing. But all right. Well, I would love to stay longer. But I'm going to be on Your Family Thinks I'm Crazy tomorrow. And I've got to come up with five under-the-radar conspiracies or Fortean-ish stories. And I only have three right now. But thanks for listening. Take care of you and yours. Stay curious. And I'll see you next time. Your move, synchro mystic stagecrafters, twilight language speakers, and occult advisor seekers. Your fucking move. Jake Hanna got Jake. And it's taking on a life. It might even be. He started making out of mystic eyes. I'm crazy. Numerology. Synchro mystic eyes. Choisi. Honest touch. What does it mean, though? I haven't learned that much. That meticulously planned. In your synchro mystic eyes to see. A well-connected tapestry. A capitalistic bourgeoisie. Or a thing that happens naturally. We still don't know.