Michael A. Hoffman II | The Cryptocracy, Twilight Language, & Public Psychodrama Rituals

Hello, Higher Side Chatters. Welcome to a rare pre-show caveat, just to say that Christmas comes early because Michael Hoffman has been on my shortlist for a long time, and when we set this up, the agreement was only to do an hour, but as we eased into it, I asked him if he had time for a few more questions, and what do you know, I didn't have to change our usual format at all. But it does kick off with some very, we gotta fit a lot of stuff into just an hour sort of energy. But also, of course, with an interview that's this important to me, my primary recording file somehow got corrupted. I tried everything and it just wouldn't unpack itself, and I swear this never happens to me. But luckily, I have backup recordings, but my side on this one sounds a little subpar. Thankfully, the guest side was unaffected, and that's what's most important, but those two things combined had me feeling like giving a little pre-show context was in order. It feels a little bit bitter on the audio quality, but a little sweet on the unexpected extra show length. And ain't that just like life? All right now, kids, take your seats. Class is about to be in session. Enjoy. The planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan. There's clearly maybe something there beyond the realm of math. And until we've thoroughly tested every last close-chested view, I find the more we think we know, the less we really do. Where would we be without THC? Because we know they're lying to us. Just don't know to what degree. Where would we be without THC? The Higher Side Chats show. Greg Carlwood and company. Serenity Now, Higher Side Chatters doing the dance from the Sunshine State. I'm Greg Carlwood. And when most of us hear the conventional mainstream state-sponsored narrative of major events from September 11th and October 7th to the Harvest festival shooting and COVID-19, we know we're being lied to for the sake of some unadvertised agenda, geopolitical play, or just once again being encouraged to live in fear. And be that as it may, there are some of us who see even deeper into the details of these events when it comes to the potency of certain numbers and dates, or some uncanny connections between the names of people, places, and relationships that signify a more esoteric operation or ritual is at work. Something more than a simple mass tragedy as described by the compromised media. Some see a tapestry of detail or a symbolic pattern that sometimes seems so detailed that you have a hard time understanding how it could even be so meticulously planned. Well, so much of this sort of research we might call occult conspiracy or synchromysticism became popular with the publication of King Kill 33, a booklet about the ritualized aspects of the JFK assassination, co-authored by James Shelby Downard and today's guest, Michael Hoffman. Michael was mentored by James Shelby Downard from 1975 up until his death in 1998, and in that time and time since, Michael has put out several provocative books poking holes in the things we think we know, like Judaism's Strange Gods, Adolf Hitler, Enemy of the German People, They Were White and They Were Slaves, The Untold History of the Enslavement of Whites in Early America, The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome, and what really is the focus today, Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare, as well as its recent sequel, Twilight Language, which have been described as a one-two punch of radical disenchantment and revelation of the method in an era of nearly universal occult initiation. He sits at the top of my dream guest list, the Twilight Language teacher, revelation of the method revealer and public psychodrama parser. Michael, welcome to The Higher Side. It's very generous of you, Greg. Thank you. It's good to be here. Yes, thank you for doing it. And I know you had something you wanted to say here at the beginning. Well, sort of a summation of my worldview. I thought perhaps that might be helpful for your people. And you mentioned at the top of the broadcast before we actually went on the air that you were going to delve deeper than most interviewers. And from past history of what you've already done, I think that's very likely. So I'll proceed as quickly as I can. In Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare that you mentioned, I mentioned the quotation in the section titled Mystical Toponomy. Quote, Mystical Toponomy and alchemical Kant language are part of a process which hinges on a marriage between action and time or recorded history and physical locations on the earth, which are regarded as places of power by the cryptocracy's magical geographical vision of the earth as a giant chessboard, which is symbolized by the tessellated floor of Solomon's Temple and the Masonic Lodge and Alice's vision of the world in Lewis Carroll's Wonderland Fantasy. And then we go to Richard Hacklewitt, Dr. John Dee's partner in crime, and laying the idea and foundations of the British Empire in the Elizabethan age. And he was called a geographer for this very reason. So mystical toponomy pertains to the JFK assassination. For example, Mr. Downard in our text, King Kill 33, charted a trail of symbolism associated with the 32nd and 33rd degree lines of North Parallel Latitude by means of synchromystically important places, such as we mentioned the Mason Road, Mason Noel Barr, Tres Hermanas, Shakespeare, Macbeth, McByrd, Johnson Mountain, Kennedy Mountain, Ruby Road, all of these honor near the same latitude upon which JFK was immolated. And then in my latest book, as you say, the sequel to Secret Societies titled Twilight Language, I nominated a new one, the 42nd degree line, new in the sense that I'm labeling it and denominating it as such. I mean, it's been there creating this sort of psychic exterior since the 18th century. And that's in upstate New York. It has a similar distinction in what even Orthodox historians term the psychic highway, although they did not consult a toponomic map in doing so and miss the flow of events having occurred on this 42nd degree line. At least that's my opinion. And parenthetically, these geographic designations have been floating around for some time. They were institutionalized in the 19th century. The International Meridian Conference in 1884 established the Prime Meridian, which indirectly affects the standard measurement of latitude by setting a reference point for longitude and thereby standardizing the geographical coordinate system. So what interests me from the point of view of Twilight Language is that they chose the Green Witch to preside over this crucial mapping. In other words, the International Meridian Conference adopted the Greenwich Meridian as the prime meridian, thereby standardizing all other measurements, including latitude. So if you say Greenwich fast enough, you get Greenwich. Like if you say in England, South Folk rapidly, it comes out Suffolk and the North Folk becomes Norfolk. In Spokane, Washington, there's a neighborhood called Hilliard, but the original name was derived from railroad magnate Jim Hill. It was in Hill's yard where his trains congregated, now known as Hilliard. So the same process is in place for Greenwich. Its derivation is Greenwich. And this has significance for some people such as myself. The Greenwich has mapped the world. So James Shelby Downer deserves to be credited with this type of association. And he was able to intuit a connection as Matthew J. Bell has observed between rarefied ivory tower debates on the cutting edge of the philosophy of physics and pedestrian seeming ostensible irrelevancies, like that there's a little New Mexico town called Truth or Consequences, lying along the 33rd degree of North Parallel Attitude. And nearby on the same 33rd degree line is the terminus of the Jornada del Muerto, at which place matter was created and destroyed at the Trinity site. So the point is, is that, Greg, we envision a holistic view of what has come to be known as conspiracies. The actors and locations appearing in spectacular crimes like King Kill 33, the JFK assassination, have significance. And the people and places constitute the physical objects used by behind-the-scenes stage managers in their attempts to, what I consider, bend time, employing Twilight-language words like wika and wicker. And Matthew J. Bell, in his The Synchro Mystic on Substack, adds the name Wikipedia into the mix. It should be fairly obvious that sorcery lies less in a mathematical formula and more like, and this is what James Shelby Downer taught me, a script, a story, a play, a psychodrama. That's what rules over the occult operation. I think that Aleister Crowley hinted about that and Osman Spare when they talked about how truth wasn't really related to it, that it was the case of building the story, whether it's true or not, because it created results. And we might expect that such workings would be augmented with the appropriate casting, the props, the scenery, and of course, the media attention. So I'll finish up here. For countless high-profile events, such as the JFK assassination, we note the Twilight-language name game, for example, David Ferry and Clay Shaw were habituates of the old Storyville district in New Orleans. And we focused attention on one of those surnames, bringing the operative onomatology to the surface. The official assassination investigation amounted to a fairy tale. And of course, David Ferry was spelled F-E-R-R-I-E. Another Storyville character in the same psychodrama plotted in part in Shakespeare, New Mexico, The Land of Enchantment, was one Gordon novel. And he was the flesh and blood novel in the French Quarter nightclub operator and a handler of anti-surveillance equipment as probably a CIA asset. So to conclude, the philosopher of science, Adolf Grunbaum, in his book, Philosophical Problems of Space and Time, wrote, in opposition to the absolutist conception of space and time inherent in the Newtonian theory, Einstein espoused a conception of time and space, which is relational, by regarding them as systems of relations between physical events and things. So Einstein's conceptual innovation regarding a simultaneity can be summarized as follows. Time relations among events are assumed to be first constituted by the physical relations obtaining between them. End quote from Grunbaum's Philosophical Problems of Space and Time, which was published in 1963. And Matthew Bell writes, quote, As a function of the magician as playwright dynamic, the physical objects and venues are props and backdrops. But the addition of the broadly Einsteinian eternalist relationist idea of time raises the stakes, because to a believer in a four-dimensionally structured space-time, time relations literally reduce to the relations among physical objects. So to put it differently, according to this application of what's being called the Einsteinian dictum, spatiotemporality is nothing other than matter arranged a particular way. Alter the arrangement of matter and you alter space-time. So if you add into this mixed Gary Lackman statement that magic is or can be thought of as induced synchronicity, and Rhonda Byrne, author of The Secret, believes that synchronicity directs our lives, I would substitute the word leads for her notion of and suggests that synchronicity can only do so a majority of the time if we are sufficiently awake to notice it. Conversely, being on the lookout for certain synchronic symbols, numbers, and words will, in my experience and observation, summon them into one's field of view with seemingly greater frequency than if one was not seeking them. All right. Wow. Well, we're certainly in it now and we are throwing a lot at people and we're moving fast because we only have an hour, which is unusual around here. I haven't done a one-hour interview in well over a year. I think the last one was RFK Jr., just so the audience knows how special this is to me. And I do want to get past the introductory stuff and into deeper waters, but just to give a little more context and catch everyone up on your overall premise, I thought this might be helpful. So you refer to the controller class and our system as the cryptocracy, rule and rulers by secrets. And you say that the major secret societies have been alchemically processing humanity through public psychodrama, which is to say initiating us into their world using staged events and a process called revelation of the method to reveal their intentions in a way that has us consenting. And when you pick up on this esoteric tapestry of details, you refer to that as the twilight language, the neuro linguistic programming that's being used on the culture. To quote the recent book, you flesh it out a little bit more saying twilight language is the visible spectrum of the occult imperative. It is rendered invisible by our willful forgetfulness, the price we pay to maintain a sliver of comfort and self-satisfaction within the sorcerous system of things. Well, does that help us set the table correctly? Is there anything with what you said and what I just said that you would add or adjust to the broad overview or framework of your premise? No, you got it right. Okay, great. Well, you mentioned countless examples of events, and I do think that is where the rubber meets the road and where the theories really kind of flesh themselves out when people see it in the examples. You mentioned the JFK assassination, 9-11, the Trinity test site. You also talk in the book about the Parkland shooting, the Virginia Tech shooting, and the Harvest Festival shooting, just to name a few examples. But when you talk about the Trinity test as a ritual, it seems like it's a very key event to understand truth or consequences, New Mexico on the 33rd North parallel latitude. It happened at the end of that old Mexican road you gave the Spanish, but the English translation is the journey of the dead man. There's now an obelisk there that reads where the first nuclear device was exploded, July 16th, 1945. And this is where you say the creation and destruction of primordial matter first occurred. And to quote the interview in the book, Mr. Downard felt that the first atomic bomb blast had altered reality far beyond the nostalgic contours of our world will never be the same again, but rather in the fact that when the world saw the sun in the morning rise from the west for the first time in recorded history, our reality was forever altered. According to Downard, a harmonculus was perhaps placed inside a giant bottle there at the site referred to as jumbo, and it was thought by some that the radiation had managed to animate it. Well, all the details are very intriguing. That last part in particular, because we hear about things like Jim Parsons and the moon child ritual in the desert. And there seems to be this real overlap with the scientists of the time, the medallers in reality structure and the occult. They're kind of doing dual use events to some degree. But I guess I would ask you to elaborate on the importance of this event for people who haven't really wrestled with it before. And this homunculus claim, whatever happened to that? Is there more to that story than just that kind of line that I hear in a lot of places where this is referenced? Well, it's tied into going all the way back to the Rosicrucian era. So if you look in my book on the section on Michael Mayer in Emblem 33 of his Atalanta fugians, Atalanta fleeing from 1617, and you see that he was involved in this idea that there would be a new man who would be an androgyne, as we see both from alchemy and we also see in the Kabbalah, Adam Kadmon, as he's known. And so what we have is, is James Selby Downard gave consideration to the likelihood that the container designated as jumbo at the nuclear trinity site housed a mannequin that was animated by the bomb's atomic energy. And I've never seen a cogent explanation for this jumbo container at the nuclear trinity site. It's always explained away with suggestions that my terms are ludicrous. But anyway, relating it back to the Rosicrucians, if you look at Mayer's alchemical treatise, In Emblem 29, we read, Ut un salamandra vivet igne sic lapis. Like the salamander, the stone lives in the fire. And the caption underneath Emblem 29 states, Dejit in ardente salamandra pentatior igne sic quoque non flamorum incendia savia requesit quifit acidionatus in igne lapis. And to Latinists, pardon my fractured Latin. And that renders as the salamander lives more vigorously in the heart of the fire. Like her, our stone born in everlasting fire does not attempt to flee from the relentless flame. So whether or not Mr. Downard's surmise was correct, it is quite a coincidence that in our century 21, we are experiencing the public fulfillment of the age old alchemical magnum opus in its full spectrum, the racial, sexual, and even agricultural transmutation of nature. So the question is, was the notion of a homunculus strictly literary or was it physical? So is it symbolic and literary and operating on that level? Or was Mr. Downard's suggestion that it was physical is the actuality? I've never seen where the follow-up is. I mean, you can bring Dr. John Whiteside Parsons into this because, of course, Crowley became very concerned that he thought that Parsons was losing his mind trying to make a homunculus. But I'd rather just stick with this anomaly at the jumbo. And I wish other people would try and attempt to follow up through the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, which again, with Parsons' connection there, and there are many occult dimensions to that as well. But no, we weren't able to go any further than Mr. Downard's statement concerning that homunculus inside jumbo. And he was very rarely dogmatic on things like that. So this was more a supposition and a hypothesis. But it certainly does have strong parallels with what the Rosicrucians were doing in terms of laying the groundwork for an early modern alchemy as opposed to the medieval one, which was often associated with darkness and dirt. And in the Renaissance, this type of alchemy became associated with the angelic and what's known as white magic. Well, very interesting. I had to at least ask if there was a follow-up to such a provocative idea. And as for the revelation of the method, this is just a small recent example on your sub stack, but Mattel just put out some Barbies to promote that movie Wicked. And on the box, they accidentally, quote unquote, posted a link to a porn website. Well, we know this was no accident, and it's very fitting to be on the box that says Wicked. Of all the Barbies they make, it's on this one. And then all the news organizations cover it. And if you read between the lines, they are telling you who they are. And if you continue to do business with Mattel, that's the consent. This is an example of revelation of the method. Is that right? Are there any other recent examples to drive it home for people? Oh, there are all kinds of examples. Let's take, for example, a slightly more prosaic one. When Pope Francis was in Singapore last September, he said, quote, there's only one God and each of us has a language to arrive at God. Some are Sikh, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, and they are different paths to God, end quote. And I understand that your New Age listeners will be shaking their heads, nodding in assent to that, but that's not the point. The point is, is that Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes unto the Father except through me. The Pope is supposed to be the vicar of Christ on earth, not a Gnostic. And yet he presents this very clear, heretical statement, absolutely diametrically opposed to what Jesus said. And I would call that revelation of the method. And then the extent to which people dissolve psychically, spiritually, and psychologically by remaining in allegiance to him while claiming allegiance to Jesus creates this double mind, which is just ripping apart our souls and spirits. Interesting. Yeah. It doesn't really matter what listeners might believe. This is the head of the church, basically saying, in different words, he's saying, the church is compromised and we're promoting Gnostic ideals, which is not the role of that person. Actually promoting the Prisca Theologia, which harkens all the way back to the 15th century papacy, which is the theme of my book, The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome, and the first stirrings of the Renaissance. And yet as Pope Saint, and I use that word lightly, John Paul II, strictly up-to-date Congress of all religions, Hootenanny and Assisi, Italy, 38 years ago this month. Well, actually in October. So John Paul II is held up as the orthodox antithesis to Francis. And yet they have this common root, which is no longer hidden. It was hidden for hundreds of years. It's out in the open now because the people involved in the cryptocracy and who I believe are behind the revelation of the method feel that they are approaching the goal, their objective, centuries-old objective of having an alchemical man who's been actually not elevated, as they suggest in their propaganda, but devolving from angel to a simian type of nature. And given that devolution of us, the brutalization of our humanity, they can reveal these things to us. And whereas such revelations in the Middle Ages would have ended up with them hanging from lampposts, nowadays it's just grist for the conspiracy theory mill and the heightening of dopamine and the kind of thrills that people get from these things, rather than acting on them in a prosecutorial sense of saying, we're going to bring these people to justice. And I'm not suggesting vigilante violence, but I'm talking about actually calling them to account on these things, depending on the degree of criminality involved. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. There's a couple of things there that are in my notes that I want to dive deeper on, but one of them is this major theme of the 21 gateway and the term Blackjack 21. Obviously, 2001 was 9-11. That kicks off a new phase of ritualization and the connection between Blackjack and 21 is obvious, but you do refer to this as a big gamble by the cryptocracy because as they initiate us further, less is hidden. And they put more and more of it out in plain sight, which I think a lot of people can see with the rituals done in award shows and just all kinds of places splattered on TV. You're like, what is this? This seems very dark, if you're even paying attention. And this will all come to a crescendo where the people are fully partaking in it all. Or, you know, the alternative is that they would get caught. The cryptocracy would reveal too much too soon and get it caught. That, I guess, would be the big Blackjack progression of 2001 to 2021. And that might be what you refer to as the gamble. But what more would you say to help people understand the 21 gateway premise and the Blackjack 21 progression of the last 20 years? Well, take a look at the tower card in the tarot and you see basically the 9-11 towers in New York City. The tower is on fire. The top of it has collapsed. People are jumping out of the building and the union of that exploding phallic tower represented by that's tarot card 16 and the wounded but functioning Pentagon, which is, of course, number five, comprises an equation totaling 21. And it's the flow of time where the process manifests, the 2001 gateway to the 21st century epic, the age appointed for the corporeal manifestation of the overlord in Masonic progression from 20 years in 2001 to 2021, where the overlord begins to walk among us only partially concealed under a kind of flimsy and threadbare cloak, which is becoming progressively more transparent. And the civic acceptance of this was prophesied to be virtually universal. Of course, Arthur C. Clarke talked about this extensively in using a novel to do so, childhood's end. But that's how I see it. I'm glad that you brought up the gambling aspect. That's what most people miss because these are virtuoso players of the games of hazard willing to risk everything. And that's how far they have gotten in their time. And they're always vulnerable because of that gambling element to a very powerful, uncompromising, dedicated kind of counterreaction from people who care about these things. But thus far, that really hasn't happened, except insofar as it's counterfeited, for example, by Trump's surprising victory in this recent election. And yet at the same time, he's basically a Pied Piper who is presenting himself under the mantle of Elon Musk's imprimatur as this new vision, this novus ordo seclorum, which is a phrase that Mr. Musk is using to describe Trump's extreme neocon revival of war Zionism in our world. I don't see anything particularly novel about it at all. It's actually old hat degeneracy and bloodshed and murder. But so we have to be aware that in attempting to counter these things, it has to be a genuine alternative as opposed to these fakes. And I would say that Trump has a smaller faction of the cryptocracy behind him. The rivalry is explained by the fact that, and this is something people don't understand with regard to my thesis, that the Vatican became entrenched in the occult beginning in Florence with the rise of the academy there established by the Medici, the Neoplatonic Academy. And that's actually from there and Hermeticism, we get the roots of Rosicrucianism, which are the roots of Freemasonry. So whereas Catholics believe that Freemasonry is absolutely inimical to Catholicism, actually it's derived from occult Catholicism as it existed in the Renaissance. And they have trouble understanding that they'll quote to me from Pope Leo XIII encyclical against Freemasonry. And what I say is that's about as efficacious as quoting to me from a Ford Motor Company document, attacking Toyota. I mean, you know, these are rivals in a game, a very serious game. I don't mean to suggest that there's anything comical about it, but it's a game. And as a result of that, it doesn't mean that Ford doesn't like automobiles or is trying to do away with them any more than the Vatican is anti-occult because very late in the game in the 19th century, one of the popes went after Freemasonry. They have never, ever gone after Kabbalism, which is the prime motivating ideology that comes out of the marriage of Neoplatonic and Hermetic as it was gaining credibility in the 16th century. So these are things that people have to balance in their minds in terms of dropping these old chess game ideas of black hats, white hats dichotomy. It's much more complex than that. Yes. I'm glad you said that. I like the Ford Toyota analogy because either way they're selling cars and it's more like a turf war. And it's just like, who's going to be in charge of what turf, but they're never going to reveal that they're feeling like they're so untouchable. And the public is so far from understanding this stuff that it is probably very gamey to them. They probably have a lot of fun with this at the higher level because they don't have much respect for us. I wanted to dive a little bit deeper into the Rider Waite tarot deck thing because this is pretty wild, but there's been a lot of occult analysis of 9-11 as a ritual, but you point out that 21 is encoded in a lot of these events. As you said, the number 16 tower card, people aren't familiar with tarot. There are numbers as well as symbols. The tower card is the number 16. And then the pentagram, 5 of course, but it's the 5 of pentacles card. 16 plus 5, those two cards together, equals 21. That's the gateway 21. Now, the deck was first published in 1910 in Great Britain, designed by English Freemason, author Edward Waite, author of the Holy Kabbalah and one of the founders of the Golden Dawn. This is another layer. In 1981, Dean Coutts under the pseudonym Leigh Nichols published The Eyes of Darkness. To quote that book, he says in the story, China's most important and dangerous new biological weapon in a decade is called Wuhan 400 because it was developed in their RNA labs outside of the city of Wuhan. Wuhan 400 is a perfect weapon. This is 1981. Now, this is eerie enough to be mentioning all these things that are big in our modern world. But then you take Wuhan 400 and divide it by COVID-19. And again, you get 21. So this stuff is encoded and seeded well in advance as far back as 1910, as suggested by the tarot example. It's amazing that you recognize it. But what does it do exactly? Is this a spell cast to keep us engaged in the psychodrama? Or is this something deeper from the perspective of the cryptocracy? You mentioned the space-time thing and relations between physical objects changing that space-time. Talk to us a little bit more. We see these clues, but what are they really doing under the hood to basically alter reality? Well, I think that the attack on the New York Towers and the District of Columbia Pentagon, that's meant to be an electrifying, lightning-like revelation. And that always accompanies this disruption of our mundane routine, which is overturned by sudden chaos and explosive realignment. And in the presence of this overthrow, the reaction in the percipient is a burst of momentary x-ray-like perception. I think something happened. I'm old enough to have been a child in the aftermath of the Kennedy assassination. And I saw the same thing. I saw the garage mechanics and plumbers and electricians around me who weren't believing that Kennedy was killed by one lone assassin and one very talented rifle bullet. And so in the presence of this overthrow of their mundane business as usual day, the reaction in the percipient is this x-like perception. And it's kind of like comparable to the flash of insight, which was experienced at ground zero at the site of the first atomic incineration. At least that's my idea. And the shocking perception is subsequently suppressed and denied through the chatter of innumerable talking heads, you know, spin doctors who impose the improved solution and expert explanations. But slowly and inexorably excruciating tension builds between the public world of the suit and tie solvers and explainers with their phonograph record parodying of the official line and the serious B side of the record with its shadows and specters, which hint at the dark truth about the towering inferno and the wounded Pentagon. And for that matter, the wounded head of John Fitzgerald Kennedy. So the whole thing is aimed at our devolution, our alchemical transformation. These are the methods and means whereby they do it. And especially what you hit on with Wuhan and how far back it goes. And the question is here, and I've never been able to answer it is, is this the result of absolute, deliberate, minute planning? Or is it a marriage between planning and a kind of wind, a kind of what Anton Mesmer called magnetism that carries this along? That's something that Mr. Downard and I would discuss among ourselves is how much of this is put into motion ritualistically, numerologically, and then expecting that there's a kind of force that will carry it along. And as I've heard you talk about in other broadcasts, this force or this language of coincidence, which is actually synchronicity, is tied into that, the twilight language concept, that that's also a motivating kind of propulsion fuel that gets this going. But I caution people who are looking for an absolute kind of mathematical solution to this, because as we said earlier, it's art, it's a play, it's psychodrama that's being established. But I think it's something that Dr. Carl Gustav Jung pioneered in terms of seeing these manipulation of archetypes in our subconscious mind and their unity with an alchemical force of indoctrination and programming. And that's where we have to place this. But in terms of how close we can get to a kind of forensic appreciation of these things remains to be seen. And I certainly don't claim to have a monopoly on that solution at all, or really any solution, because I would rather report the phenomenon and let other people draw the conclusions as they choose. Of course, I have drawn conclusions, but I've tried to make it that people understand that these are my opinions. Yes, I'm glad you pointed that out, because so often when we do talk about this kind of stuff, it gets to the point where it feels like too much for any level of secret society to plan. And this was a quote I had from the book, you say, a yarn is being spun and charmed conjunctions and intersections are formed, partly by invocation and partly from surfing a magnetic attraction that seems to organize anomalies around certain words of power and potent symbols. And I think that is in the mix. I think I hear the same thing from all kinds of researchers and authors, that when they're putting themselves on a path, things kind of coalesce for them, too. They're not even doing anything nefarious, but they're looking for a certain bit of information. It shows up on the right page of the right book. There is a guardrail or a guide that's helping people along, and they could just be manipulating that same sort of thing. A third option is that some people think these secret societies are in league with spiritual forces, non-human entities or ultra-terrestrials that pull strings on these events from the other side as well. Do you think there's anything to that? Yes, I think that's actually what the UFO phenomena are. I couldn't believe it when Tucker Carlson, who I respect in many ways, actually said that he believes that there's a dead alien in the possession of the U.S. government and a crashed UFO. And I'd never seen any evidence of that. He was relying on one person who I believe had possibly psychiatric problems, although that could have been just a way of blackening the guy's reputation, and maybe he wasn't that way. But one source alone is not going to carry it, and I think it's much more likely, and I believe Tucker may have finally moved over to this point of view, is that we're dealing with just what you say, demonic entities, a type of energy which is united with people on earth who, of course, that's what magic and sorcery really are, calling into contact, these entities. I remember in the 1980s, I was living in Los Angeles, and Charlie Lutz, who was an associate of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, was giving Friday night lectures, I think, at Santa Monica. And I was dismissive of that because I was dismissive of the Maharishi. And one doesn't want to do that without further exploration, because I've since found some very interesting people who were associated with that circle. But anyhow, a friend who I respected said, you've got to go and hear Charlie Lutz. And I did. And I always remember, this was when Hallie's Comet was returning to earth, 1986, actually. And I remember how impressed I was when Mr. Lutz talked about the channeling phenomenon, which was in vogue at that time, where people would talk to those who claimed to be channeling some spirit from the other world, which was particularly relevant to me because I had previously resided in Ezekiel Folsom House in upstate New York on the 42nd degree of North Parallel Latitude. And Mr. Folsom, who was a renowned business teacher in the 19th century, taught John D. Rockefeller and invented the single-entry bookkeeping system. Well, he apparently had seances in his home, even though he was like supposedly an Orthodox Christian, because I found a book out in the barn after we bought the house. And the book was a book by a channeler, a famous channeler of the 19th century. And we actually had some paranormal activities in that house, nothing that was malignant. But so anyhow, what Charlie said was the spirits that were being channeled by these so-called mediums are entities that never have been born and never will be born and that hated humanity. And so the whole operation of channeling in these mediums was to destroy us and however indirectly or how long it might take. So I do indeed accept that, that it's a spiritual war. I think that we just have to be careful to the extent to which fundamentalist, so-called evangelical Christians who are now in the forefront of urging on the slaughter of innocent Palestinians in Gaza and the extent to which they manipulate this for their own purposes. But I guess most of your audience would be aware of that. But yeah, I accept a spiritual basis to the conflict that we're observing. Right. I think there kind of has to be because the secret societies engaged in this stuff, a lot of times it feels like the tools that they get are arrived at from this sort of context. They're kind of given templates and knowledge about how to manipulate reality because I don't know where it would come from otherwise. Yeah. And so people see that something terrible is going on in America. Something's terribly wrong when there's all these coverups, when you can murder the chief executive, the commander in chief of your nation, a beloved man at the time in 1963 in broad daylight, practically at high noon and get away with it. But what happens is, and again, this might be the spiritual dimension that you're talking about, Greg. What happens is, is that almost always that energy and that awareness is then diverted into a counterfeit. And that's what I'm seeing happening with Donald Trump. And unless Elon Musk speeds up, I'm afraid that he's going to have to also bear responsibility for this detour down the wrong road, which burns people out. It's part of the demoralization related to the revelation of the method, that people are told what's being done to them and they don't react in a positive and constructive and effective manner. And so if it happens again, we saw it with Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, that he was also supposed to be the conservative messiah. He's actually the first one to grant amnesty to three million illegal aliens through the Simpson-Mazzoli Act. He sold out his own people to the cheap labor lobby. And here is Trump completely selling out the Middle East foreign policy of the United States government. I mean, Biden was doing something with the velvet glove on the fist, but Trump is doing something so egregious that it's encouraging already fanatical, homicidal elements of what I would call a Talmudic orientation, the Talmud having been weaponized by Zionism, that the loss of innocent life there for which so many Americans are oblivious is horrifying. And I don't think we're going to get outside the karmic consequences of that. There are going to be a reap what you sow consequence from this, but people are ignoring it. So it's demoralizing when you think that all this energy is being invested in Trump and it may be a counterfeit. And then at the end of that, people are left lower than if Kamala had been elected. And so how we step outside of that and create a genuine movement, which is constantly vigilant, one has to always be vigilant, but a genuine movement that would be an alternative to both of these left wing, right wing, 1789 seating arrangements of the French National Assembly, which is all it is. If we can transcend that in a really effective and spiritually positive way, that's the challenge. Well said, well said. And so coming back to the book in your King Kill 33, 58 years later chapter, you say the cryptocracy feeds on the post-traumatic stress of something like the killing of Kennedy, the King 33, or the Sandy Hook 13. Well, we know Sandy Hook is one of these very taboo, do not go there kind of events. Alex Jones today is having his whole organization bought up by the onion and auctioned off. And it's something that gets a lot of people into courts. But I'm just curious why Sandy Hook 13, why the number 13 associated? Well, Sandy Hook, I know that there's a tremendous amount of skepticism about Sandy Hook. My problem with that is when Alex Jones had the opportunity to get up in court and present his evidence, he did not. Now I'm told that Jim Fetzer actually did, even though he also lost his case. So if people are interested in trying to defend that thesis, they can Google Jim Fetzer and whatever his documents are. But what I found sort of disconnecting here with Sandy Hook is these people actually had children. I have a large family, I have a large number of children. And if it was said that they were killed and they weren't, I mean, does that mean that they were taken out of the neighborhood where we dwell here in North Idaho and they were disappeared? And yet at the same time, I'm good with it? Or those children never actually existed? I just haven't seen the evidence. I mean, some of this is gumshoe practical investigations here. There's nothing particularly psychic or supernatural about an investigation into Sandy Hook. And so first Alex Jones, in my opinion, just took a very timid route out of it. When if he actually had the facts on his side, he should have presented them, which would have been of world historic importance in terms of exposing forces, which are mounting such a hoax. He did not. And so until I have evidence that somehow these children vanished or the parents were lying about them, I think that Sandy Hook was an actual event. As far as the number 13 being associated with it, I quite frankly don't recall my original association there. I'll have to do the research on that and see why I related 13 to Sandy Hook. Fair enough. I went searching and, you know, some things do come up. If you go to the newtownconnecticut.gov website, the headline Newtown unveils 13 proposed designs for the Sandy Hook Memorial is there. And then Sandy Hook Promise is the nonprofit trying to quote end school shootings and create a cultural change that prevents violence and other harmful acts that hurt children. And their headline reads meet the 13 teens from across the U.S. leading gun violence prevention in schools. So it is there because a lot of times they'll see the stuff with the various headlines and you can pick out the numbers in them. But that's what I found. And you mentioned Kamala Harris. I know her time is kind of over, it seems. But one thing that just stuck out to me is that there is a constellation. I'd have to look it up. I have to find it. But a constellation where the star Kamala and the star Harris are on either side of it. And it's like, what is that? It's like, how does that occur? Like when you reverse engineer that, it's like, what does that mean? Does it mean this person was plucked out of obscurity and given a fake background and given a fake name to play a role that is reflected in the stars? I mean, the fact is there, but it's hard to reverse engineer how it could be true. Charles Fort posited the notion that there was an impish spirit in the universe, which would contradict everything and also had the basis as a kind of a joke. And I don't know, that might be the explanation of it. I can't think of any other one. I'd like to just step back for a moment to the number 13 references that you gave. And I would caution people as to whether or not, if indeed these are intentional, it's an attempt on the part of the cryptocracy to send us down a rabbit hole because sometimes we get so overly zealous in pursuit of these different aspects of the occult that we blunder in granting significance to things that don't have them. So the ability to distinguish between numbers, symbols, and twilight language words that may not be or may be is an important factor for those of us who are sleuthing these elements. I had a dear friend who became obsessed with the number 23. And of course, there was a movie with Jim Carrey about that. And the more he obsessed about it, the more he saw number 23 and the license plates of the cars in front of us when we were driving and many other synchronicities along those lines. So the extent to which we summon these things and that summoning ability is being manipulated by the cryptocracy where they may not be significance is also something that should be studied and we should be careful about. Fair enough. And you do touch on COVID in the book a little bit, but the last real event you include was the Harvest Festival shooting in 2017. Obviously, an esoterically potent event right next to the Luxor Pyramid. Shots being fired from the 32nd floor. 33, if you count the lobby, there's that interplay between 32 and 33. But you also note the banner for the event reading Route 91 Harvest Festival powered by Sirius. Of course, that's Sirius XM, but the Sirius star system does come up in the decoding work every so often. I have a copy of the audio recorded interview between James Shelby Downard and Jim Brandon, and it's called Sirius Rising. Can you help us understand this interplay with the cosmos or certain parts of it that sometimes come up? Boy, that's a good question. I wish I could really answer it in depth, but it's so profound and has so many aspects to it. Certainly, we go back to Albert Pike, the Supreme Commander of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in South Carolina. There was their headquarters on the 33rd line of North Parallel Latitude. And he mentions the Blazing Star in his book, Morals and Dogma, which sold hundreds of thousands of copies in the late 19th century and was pretty much de rigueur for Masons to read. And there he associated the Blazing Star with Sirius, also using the number five, which is kind of a holy grail in the occult. And I remember getting into a sort of acrimonious debate when I was a columnist for 40 and Times Magazine in its original incarnation, which is where, by the way, Twilight language was almost originally incarnated in an article by Bill Grimstad called The Fayette Factor, I believe, in 1977 he wrote that. So what is this number five obsession? I think it has something quite to do with what Mary Daly in her indispensable book, Gynecology, talked about. And it really goes to the heart of an esotericism, which often isn't associated with the cryptocracy. And yet Pike brought it to the fore, perhaps for the first time. And that is the notion of, as the male hierarchy began to take over the aspect of the occult in pre-Christian antiquity, taking it away from the so-called mother goddess in the matriarchal world, the males were, according to Mary Daly, and I absolutely agree with her, were in shock at the power of women to bleed and not die, to bleed and not be injured through menstruation. And that that became something that was overwhelming to the patriarchal spirit, that this was something that had to be sort of confined by an occult kind of nailing down, tethering it. And so it became associated with the number five, because typically, not always, the number of days of menstruation for a woman is five. And I strongly believe that that's the inner symbolism of the pentagram and the importance there. And for some reason that I don't comprehend, Pike was trying to associate that with Sirius. I mean, the star itself in the heavens, whether it's Sirius A or Sirius B, and I'm sure you've read the book by Robert K. G. Temple, The Sirius Mystery, but either one of them, they don't have five points. You know, that's just a mythological and symbolical idea. But from there, yes, Sirius has gained ground. And in that year, 1977, which saw some extraordinary developments in the investigative world, Stephen Knight's book, Jack the Ripper, The Final Solution, was published that year. David Irving published Hitler's War with his revisionist claims about Adolf Hitler, with which I strongly disagree. But nonetheless, it was earthshaking in terms of so central a historian to the military history of the Second World War, making those claims. So those were part of that kind of revelation of the method that came out in 1977. And I don't think that what K. G. Temple started has really halted in any way. I think it's been rolling along ever since, the focus on Sirius, the brightest star in the heavens. And it's out right now here in my skies. Orion is my favorite constellation. And then Sirius coming along, the Connus Maior there. But what are your thoughts on that? It's definitely above my pay grade, I would say. But I did want to correct what I said earlier about Kamala Harris. The stars are actually Alamak and Sira. So it's Harris and Kamala backwards, which is another thing that makes me think in occult terms. They love to put things backwards and flip things. But the constellation is Andromeda. So you have Andromeda, which is a constellation known as the Chained Woman or the Chained Lady. And then Alamak and Sira, her name, forwards and backwards, is there. There's only four main stars in that constellation. One's Andromeda and two are her name. I just don't know how that happens. But I wanted to say this. So critics of this kind of work, when they are criticizing me, they say, well, there's not enough events really to build this case that this sorcerarchy, this cryptocracy is really doing all this. Because the case has always come back to JFK and 9-11. And now we can throw in the Harvest Festival. But even if you include the Trinity test, it's like you got the Trinity test in the 1940s, JFK in 1963, 9-11 in 2001, Harvest Festival in 2017, COVID in 2020. It's like they're pretty spaced out. So that is something that people who kind of reject this material lean on to say there's not enough here. But you include things like the Oklahoma City bombing, the Unabomber. You include obviously a lot of the school shootings and killings there. You include the lone nuts. You include kind of a lot more than people really realize, even though there are main examples like 9-11's been parsed to death from an occult perspective. But I guess what are some other not so talked about ones you might cite to show people that there's more than they realize? It's not just something every 10 or 20 years. I think that what you're outlining is actually a case of amnesia, because certainly how many people are at least in middle age now could have forgotten Son of Sam? That was an electrifying serial murder series in the 1970s involving one of the clearest cases of Twilight language when the letter to supposedly sent by David Berkowitz, but he would never have the literary ability to write at that level. It was a hauntingly beautiful letter. And he signs himself, Wicked King Wicker, Rapist and Suffocator of Young Girls. I was actually a reporter at that time for the establishment media, and I picked up on that immediately, even though none of my colleagues did. And I then started to make connections between Son of Sam and the double initial murders in Rochester, New York, which I believe elements of the same family that were behind Son of Sam were behind that one. And that was a progression up to the number 33 based on the initials of the girls who were being slaughtered. One of the most mysterious killings, which also seems to have been, and I don't say this lightly, and I do emphasize that I'm saying seems to have been, perhaps in some way supervised by the United States Secret Service. Those killings occurred not far from where I was living, so I actually could really get close to them. And there were Secret Service agents in the area. There's no explanation for it. There were no, at that time they were investigating, I mean, Secret Service was assigned the responsibility for treasury crimes, but there were no counterfeiting rings. There were no elite politicians to be guarded. And in the case of Son of Sam, you actually had a full-fledged cult using these Twilight language words and killing these people. And whether or not the notion of a satanic cult was really a front for something else or not, they certainly had their occult symbolism down and a terrified New York City for all of that time that not just Berkowitz, but Berkowitz committed some of the shootings and there were other accomplices. We know their names, but because of libel suits, we can't mention. In fact, one of them is the Trump supporter and she lives out on the East Coast, but I can't go there because of libel concerns and lawsuits. But also when you've got the DC sniper there, that was loaded with occult symbolism. And how about the killing of the Black King, Martin Luther King in Memphis, where the pyramid now stands and where jazz was created on Beale Street there. And Mr. Downer talked about the onomatological roots of the word Beale related to Beale, as he did with Lyndon Baines Johnson's middle name, Baines tracing it all the way back to Macbeth. And the extent to which these things are a gigantic ritual working, or how much of these forces are being surfed by people who know how to trigger them, which I think is definitely something that is at work when we look at Anton Mesmer and how he was using what he called magnetism, and which physics and other aspects of hard science today have other names for. But that's the question. However, I would be incredulous at the notion that people don't see these things coming out in every direction practically every year in terms of occult killings and murders and use of the word wicker, use of the word Willard, as I point out, which is another Twilight language word, which has a great deal of emphasis in my book, Twilight language, or as Bill Grimstad in Forian Times pointed out, Fayette and everything associated with, or much of what is associated with the Marquis de Lafayette. That's an article worth looking up online if it's available. I think it was on Scribitt for a while. It's Forian Times issue number 25, back in the old Forian Times era, before it reincarnated as a slick, glossy magazine. And he goes into the Fayette factory. He also credits John Keel with being one of the first explorers of Twilight language in his interest in the name McDaniels and the frequency with which it turned up in various anomalous circumstances. So all of these things combined, and I see it as very more active than ever. Also, the notion of what Benjamin Franklin was involved with Sir Francis Dashwood, the chancellor of the Exchequer, the Hellfire Club, the concept that we are being laughed at and mocked, the nose-thumbing of these occultists. I mean, it was so clear to me that almost from the beginning when I looked at Son of Sam, that it was an occult operation. And at one point of it was to laugh at us, at our incomprehension when these things are, why would you call somebody who shoots people with a Bulldog .44 pistol the rapist and suffocator of young girls? It was a direction marker up 300 miles up the road to the double initial killings. And yet, it was ignored by everybody but me. And I don't mean to pat myself on the back. It's not that I'm so smart. It's that these other people were so dense. And so, you see a kind of almost demonic hilarity at how human beings, straddled with original sin and their inherent depravity, unless they have been reborn through the grace of Jesus Christ, are just stumbling around as victims of something that they have the ability to break out. As we talked about the gambling aspect of these cryptocrats, they're willing to take tremendous risks to reveal who they are. And yet, we don't do it. And I think this is a big factor in this mockery thing of us, and also in the demoralization of us as we keep going down avenues that we think are going to help us. The Trump case, I don't mean to overemphasize it, but that being a prime example. And then when it doesn't happen, we burn out. I've seen so many people drop out of the movement to sleuth and investigate these occult crimes and to bring, as D.A. Garrison tried to do, I want to bring these people to court. I want to prosecute them in front of a jury of their peers. And so many people who had that initial motivation have been burned out by what I regard as an occult process intended to do exactly that. So we have to be aware of these things, defend ourselves, and be vigilant to the extent that we call on our higher powers, which are much greater than anything the occult can summon here on this earth. Well, cheers to that. But it's so easy to get burned out when it feels like the courts are compromised. That's got to be one of the first segments of society they would compromise, because it's the only channel to holding them accountable. So if that's locked up, it's really hard to do very much at all, except identify what's continuing to happen. But I also wanted to throw this out. So there's kind of this legacy of scientists and occultists doing the things we started talking about with the Trinity test and Parsons. Well, today you might say what's going on at CERN is a new phase of that, or mRNA, DNA manipulation. But there's certainly some strange symbols to pick up on around CERN, usually dark things like the Shiva statue and all that. Again, this is something James Shelby Downard talked about briefly in Sirius Rising. He mentioned CERN a couple of times. Do you see that as a hotbed for this cryptocracy's manipulation of reality, the continuation of the kind of thinking and the kind of people involved with the Trinity test? And with rocketry, have they maybe added something like CERN to their various tools to try to break reality? Yes, absolutely. Look at this NASA, you know, both of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, and then the patronage they've given to King Osiris, Osiris-Rex, they named this spacecraft. And its stated purpose is to bring the origin material, prima material of our solar system, which NASA believes may be present in this asteroid Bennu, B-E-N-N-U, to Earth, prima material. So, you know, are we going to hold our breath waiting for NASA spacecraft to be named King Jesus, he who was the stone which was rejected by the builders of our national pagan psychodrama? But he is nevertheless the cornerstone of creation. So these people are outgunned right from the beginning, but I think that what they're trying to do is bring down as many human beings to perdition as they possibly can. CERN is part of it, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory is part of it, but there are also everywhere individuals who have integrity, who have the Christ spirit, whether they're in the court system or not. And one of the things that the revelation of the method tries to inculcate in us is the idea of hopelessness, which is what I find 95% of the conspiracy theory movement to me is absolutely worthless or actually harmful, because I find that so many people end up destroying their spirit as a result of being immersed in it, whereas they're forgetting that there is always, even if the whole earth has concrete poured over it, a dandelion will still pop up through the cracks there. And that dandelion is the Christ spirit. And those of us who want to proceed according to what God intends for this earth, his will be done, fiat volintas tua, secud in chelo ad intera. And that's the most powerful force on this earth. So let's tap into it rather than these chimeras, because mostly the occult can't do a thing to us without our volition. It's our cooperation with it one way or another, either through commission or omission, either through our amnesia and apathy and ebulia, which were the three things Mr. Downer talked about, the loss of will, loss of memory, and also our cooperation with these things that we shouldn't be cooperating with. So I think that's really where we need to be, is to maintain the hopefulness. And we can call on God and expect a hopeful resolution, but our expectation has to be based on our pursuit of the truth. That's why we were put on this earth. And I know that, you know, each one of us being a fallible human being, we can get it wrong. But as long as we're open to changing our ideas at any given time based on new information, I mean, in other fields, you know, in fields of historiography, I'm a revisionist historian and conservatives will come to me and say, revisionist, don't you know that George Washington was a perfectly wonderful man? And well, George Washington was a great war leader. And I'm glad for the freedom that he contributed to our wonderful experiment here in the American Republic. But what about his land speculation? Look at what he did during the Whiskey Rebellion. So when we find out more and more about George Washington's role in the Whiskey Rebellion, George Washington's role as a land speculator, then we revise our understanding of history. And by the same token, we find out more about the invidious aspects of conspiracy theory, and we get out from underneath it and not just dwelling in this adrenaline rush that people get. I find that most conspiracy theorists are in it for the adrenaline rush. They may not realize that. They may talk a good game. But in the end, when it's time to picket this politician or hand out this leaflet or write this particular book or make this film, they either don't want to do it or their long immersion in conspiracy theory has led them into a dark place where they really feel that the evil powers have the upper hand. And that's exactly what the evil powers want to inculcate in us. And so I think we have to be aware of the spiritual and psychological pitfalls. After all, this is psychological warfare that we're battling against. Yeah, yeah. Cheers to that. It's a criticism I throw out there a fair amount that a lot of times I say we're in kind of this educational intellectual circle jerk where we just kind of keep telling each other about the same events and how bad things are. And it's like, OK, well, when do conversations turn into action? I don't know. You know, I definitely, you know, having done a podcast like this for a decade, get frustrated that it's only conversation. I mean, my job is pretty much going to be mainly conversation. But when I talk to guests, it's like, OK, well, is there any actionable intelligence in what we're talking about? Like, is it just or the thrill of things? But I would say the greatest psychic self-defense that we can maintain is the family. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you and I have to have children, but it does mean that we probably should befriend if we choose not to have children or we haven't been fortunate enough to be blessed in that way, that we choose to help those who are raising families and proceeding along those lines. When we get too far away from reality, whether it's genetic modification of crops, which would never exist in nature were it not for the intervention of human brain power and how toxic that can be. And we take it back to water is wet reality, the reality of the family and all the virtues and wonderful things that come from that, just like the farmer planting crops that are not GMO, the organic farmer. There's a joy in that. There's a health in that. And for those of us who are estranged from those types of activities, whether it's nurturing families or growing crops, perhaps that's the best psychic self-defense is to get involved in that to some degree. Here in North Idaho, my children walk around and also are, some of them are hunters. And we have the largest wilderness in the lower 48. Montana has the name for it, but Idaho has the most of it. And they talk to me about how when they're in the wilderness and the Bob Marshalls or in the River of No Return, the Frank Church, Wilderness of No Return, Frank Church, the great senatorial investigator of conspiracies, the first one to really bring it into the legislature. And they talk about, they say, Dad, there's another spirit in the wilderness. And it's just completely different from even just being in a small town or out in a park. And we wish that people could have this wilderness experience. And in Sandpoint, Idaho, for a while, our youngest son was involved in it. There was a group that wanted to take kids from the city. Our youngest son didn't live in the city, but nonetheless, take kids from the city and immerse them in wilderness for a week or two so they would have that experience. That was wonderful. And I think that has to be part of it, that we're balancing the practical. I once was interviewed by a magazine that asked me about the difference between then and now in the sense of when, you know, prior to the atomic bomb explosion at the Trinity site prior to the imposition of mass alchemy on human beings. And I often talk about how important it was for people to grow crops and raise children. And then as sort of an anomaly, the carnival came to town and they went to the hoochie coochie tent to watch half-dressed women. But the majority of it wasn't pornography and death. The majority of it was life and spirituality in a positive way. And those are the things that we need to return to far more than our own preoccupations with these various esoteric aspects, which are necessary, but can't really, I don't think, become the vehicle for our restoration as human beings and our destiny for, as I say to folks, you know, why were you created? Why were you put on this earth? If you're not an atheist or an agnostic, then you have some sense of your spiritual destiny and it's discovering that. And part of that is, I think, that we have to be immersed in what's natural and practical and to whatever extent we can access the wilderness. Now, I should talk because I haven't been to the wilderness in Idaho, even though I've been here for many, many years. But I guess I'll just plead my time in the libraries and archives or, like you're saying, you know, being a host here of these conversations, it just seems to be all-encompassing. I often say I wish I could have a bedroom at the Foley Library at the Gonzaga University campus. I'd be pretty happy, but I should get out to the wilderness and take my own advice. It's true. Well, we all have a role to play and we're all imperfect, as you say. Either way, really, really great talking to you. It's been an honor. And I think we're presenting your twilight language work to the right people. I hope you get some good feedback and keep doing what you do. Of course, the website is revisionisthistory.org and you have a Substack. That is a great place for people to see the ongoing work. I agree. It's great that we have it. It's faster than books. You can put out little things that might not need to be in a full book, like the Mattel Wicked Hornlink example I gave. That's right from your Substack. You're not going to write a whole book on that. And five years from now, people won't care. But Substack is great at getting those things out. Hopefully people support that. It can be a paid platform and just amazing stuff. Keep decoding events as best you can. And I hope the other work doesn't get too bogged down in people's prejudices, I suppose. But yes, keep fighting the good fight and hopefully we can stave off the reign of dead matter. Thanks for talking to me and take care. Thank you, Greg. You too. Yeah, baby. Michael Hoffman. Can't believe it actually came together and became a full two hour show. I cannot stop being disappointed in my audio during that. And it was just a random range of issues. First, we couldn't even get my preferred recording platform to work on Michael's end. So we threw up an audible and went with Skype and my backup for Skype just hasn't even been tested in over a year. But the clock was ticking. We can't just mess around with interfaces forever. And I already thought I'd just be getting an hour. So it all sort of conspired against me, we could say. But it is pretty common to have people ask me about my dream guests who have passed on. And James Shelby Downard is really high on that list. So to have some time with his co-author and someone he mentored, it's about as good as it's going to get. And Michael has done a wide range of interesting work in his own right. Clearly, he does not shy away from the thorniest of thorny topics. And if he lets me do this again, I would be curious to focus on some of those other parts of his repertoire. Depending on the reception he gets, I would assume. So let him know you enjoyed this if you want another. And I have to thank mystic Mark Steves for putting in a good word for me. I don't know how he had Michael's ear, but he did have it. Lots of good stuff, though, and many little threads I knew were not going to fit into even a two-hour interview. But I'm glad I did have time to ask a little bit about Adam Go-Rightly. I formed what I considered a friendship with Adam in the early days of doing this show. But I was always a little unsure of how serious he took these topics. Sometimes he would just write in a way that felt like this was a prank to him, or he just liked trying to make other people believe this stuff, and he didn't really care too much about it himself. Again, that's just my impression. But he has done a lot of work on Discordianism and written some more modern works that are considered some of the best. And he's been very involved in the spirit of keeping that kind of material and tone alive, so it does fit with my impression. But I did like this episode a lot. I'm so glad I could keep Michael talking and get a full show out of it, especially in the holiday season when everyone is busy and I really don't want to do extra work. I think it's clear how you could see this is very synchromysticism adjacent. He just uses different terms. But to do such deep research about pop culture, public psychodramas, and these highly charged events, and the twilight language stuff, and mass initiation overall, I think he nails it. It's not easy. I really liked throwing out that little Mattel example, because I think his model for why they tell us works a little bit better than the, well, they're scared of the karma angle that you hear so often. The way Michael puts it, it's more like they're just telling us who they are to further initiate us to accept more and more negative stuff, like allowing pornography links to be on a child's toy that is branded under the wicked umbrella. And they just say, whoops, sorry. And people go on buying their kids Barbies and doing business with this company. It just kind of lowers the social bar for what's acceptable, I guess. I think that's a lot different and more accurate than saying they're trying to dodge karmic consequences. Because my problem with that argument has always been, well, those stakes are very high. How can you ever really judge if they've told us enough? There's a lot of us. Not everybody sees the same shows and sees these things peppered into the backgrounds. And you put something in a commercial, how do you know enough people have seen that commercial? But from this other perspective, it's more about just capturing minds and bringing people into the darkness. I hope that distinction makes some sense. But I also agree with his criticism that some people are in it just for the charge. Conspiracy material has that effect. You hear some of these breakdowns and it's really exciting. It is why I'm drawn to the material myself. But I can totally understand doing this work and then feeling like it doesn't go anywhere. It just gets a bunch of stoners to say, whoa, dude, this is crazy. But Michael talks about wanting to hold the cryptocracy accountable, presumably through the conventional justice system. And I just don't see that happening. I don't really know what alternative to propose, but clearly the cryptocracy is going to compromise the justice system pretty early in the game. So I get the desire for it and the push, but I almost just don't waste my breath on things that seem very unlikely to happen. Obviously, though, you guys know I love this one. When we did get into the second hour, we went deeper into all these concepts and examples of it all, the history of the cryptocracy and how far back it goes. We talked a little bit about the culture and figures doing this kind of research when James Shelby Downard was around. Also in the plus show, Michael said he respected Jake Kotze's work, an interview of mine that Michael listened to when trying to vet me. And he said he likes Jake's raw data a lot, but just not his conclusions about God or the one mind thing. And you know, that's where I would say that I'm way more on the Jake side in terms of conclusions. And when Michael makes his case for Christ, I just sort of stay quiet. I know a lot of people in the audience agree with Michael more than Jake, and that's fine. I'm more interested in the raw data of both of them. And funny thing about finally landing an interview with the protege of James Shelby Downard. Did you know Downard was actually a guy who lived, can you guess, in the Tampa Bay area? And it took getting here to actually get this interview because I have tried before and I didn't get the response I got this time. But another guy in this wheelhouse I'd love to have on is Loren Coleman. If anyone out there can help me get an interview with him, it really would complete the set. To get that serious rising audio recording I mentioned, I had to snail mail cash to Loren Coleman's address and hope that it wasn't a defunct process. And it wasn't. He actually sent me a CD back, the last CD I ever purchased. However, that is what I would want for Christmas if Santa happens to be listening, a two-hour interview with Loren Coleman. But that's the show. I hope you liked it. I hope my audio wasn't too muffled. I thank Michael for his time and hope we can do it again. In higher side news, I still have the eBay outline auction going on. This is the last batch until maybe I do this again next year because it seems well worth my time and the people who get them like them. But these are my signed show outlines. If you missed the other times I've mentioned this, scripts essentially. I write four to five pages of material for every episode and usually at least a quarter of that gets cut out. So some of that stuff is fun for a listener to see and have in your hand if you go back and listen to that particular episode. I think this last batch will expire in like two or three days. So if this is on your Christmas list, strike soon. The link is at the top of the show notes and you can probably just search higher side chats on eBay too. And there are still several outlines you can snag for that minimum bid, which is just 30 bucks. And with that, let's look at the rating for the last show. The hollow sky guys, Kyle and Steve, Steve and Kyle, fun detour from the heavy stuff, I would say. And I'm not alone in thinking it 4.9, a very rare thing to see. Damn, I am happy with that. Definitely a fun episode. Lots of great, unique 40 and stories. I thank them for their service. And free listeners who subscribe to the RSS feed in a podcasting app would have noticed that the free plus show for November was Joseph Farrell's last appearance. Because we talked a lot about his Giza Death Star hypothesis and his then upcoming book, The Demon in the Acre. But there was a lot he didn't want to get into details wise until the book was actually out. So I just recorded an interview with him a few days ago, it'll be out next week, that is partly about current events and mostly about plasma being the medium of angels and demons and these big plasma beings having a strong tie to the Great Pyramid when the weapon was active in the ancient past. Yeah, I know. So I made the free plus show that episode just to get it into the forefront of your minds before the new interview with Farrell comes out. So stay awake, be ready. And looking at the meetup calendar before we go again, a place where listeners can create small events to attract other local listeners on deck. We got Auckland, New Zealand, Gail Brath's Ale House on December 9th, December 21st bar none in Denver, Colorado, and that is none N-U-N. Nice little play on words there. And then January 11th, Ola Brew in Hawaii. Very cool. It's interesting how many of these events become in places I wouldn't expect like Auckland, New Zealand, and even Hawaii. Great to see though. I did an event where I was personally there in Denver a few years ago and I believe there was like 30 people that showed up, so that was fun. If you plan on going to one of those events I mentioned, go to Hiresidemeetups.com to RSVP and get more details. Otherwise, go to Hiresidemeetups.com to make a local event and I'll announce it on the air and other people will come. But that is it. Kicking off December right, I would say. Thanks again to Michael Hoffman, a man in a league of his own. I've done my part. Your move, cryptocracy controllers, psychodramas, seeders, and agents of the reign of dead matter. You're fuckin' who? Read between the little frustrating There's almost nothing to say Is it a gift to happy eyes to see? Cause it feels like a curse