Mike Wilkerson AKA Stellium7 | Biogeology, Titans, & The Hacker Prince

Planet's puppet masters almost surely have a plan. There's clearly maybe something there beyond. Here we go again, Higher Side Chatters. From the Sunshine State, I'm Greg Carlwood. And as the deep layers of our assumptions are peeled back and reexamined, we're finding a lot of inconsistencies with things we thought we could consider, the known knowns, basic fundamental facts, and settled science. And it seems that the desire to dig deeper often does yield fruitful new discoveries that the experts would just tell us to ignore. From world's fairs, cabbage patch babies, and orphan trains, to historical timelines, medical science, earth science, and really almost every other scientific discipline across the board. The pattern is often similar, where new information arises that clashes with the established paradigm, and after the initial knee-jerk reaction is overcome, the open-minded among us might start to work out how such new information affects the larger picture and mental constructs we already have established. Then, when we try to share this new information, we're often met with a much more aggressive knee-jerk reaction and emotionally charged arguments that really just boil down to regurgitated rhetoric, trust the experts, and a shockingly small amount of substance. In my experience, it ironically ends up being that the critics of a given paradigm actually know the details of the established narrative far better than those who aggressively defend it while being unwilling to explore alternatives. Well, what if this template also applies to things like geology and things like natural transmutation? What if it applies to myths and legends of titans in an ancient past that's far more bizarre than cavemen and campfires, and in fact, maybe it's not even that ancient? Folks, you can't help but wonder when you dive into the work of today's guest, Mike Wilkerson, which he calls biogeology and explores deeply on his YouTube channel, Cellium 7. I myself am guilty of rejecting these possibilities until I was drawn in more deeply by our old friend Analog, and I might not yet be fully convinced of it all, but I am convinced that it's more than just silliness and creationist wish fulfillment. I find the premise pretty out there, but in the spirit of not doing unto others what has been done unto me, I'm here to give it a shot and take the ride. But that's not all, folks. Mike also has a new book out titled The Hacker Prince that finally tells the tale of his youth. You see, Mike spent his teenage years back in the 80s at what really was ground zero for early computer hacking and spent a lot of time within that developing community. In 1985, he infiltrated Microsoft, a Boeing subsidiary, and two other Seattle corporations and was caught. Mike became the first person in the world to go to jail for the crime of computer intrusion, a.k.a. hacking. After that, Mike spent over a decade practicing chiropractic care in Spain, aiming to transform world health one spine and mind at a time. Not one, but two or maybe even three lives lived far more interesting than my own. Let's get into it. The biogeology guy and another artist formerly known as Prince, the sprinter himself. Mike, welcome to The Higher Side. Thank you. Wonderful to be here. Yeah, man. And fun opener. You're the best at that. No better. It's easy. It's easy. And just for context, the sprinter was your online hacker pseudonym, and Prince was actually your given name at birth. I actually thought when I saw the book, that was a little presumptuous. I'm like, this guy calls himself Prince. Well, I'm like, okay. But so for anyone thinking along those lines, that is the reason. But that whole story is wild. I really liked the book, and I have nostalgia for the time that you were going through all that. And there's definitely some good stuff in there I want to get into. But I think we have to start with the biogeology material, because it is just so bizarre. It's what you're known for now. I watched a presentation, actually, where you yourself went over how poor some of the overall discourse and intellectual rigor has been on this subject, which was really refreshing for me to hear. If, in fact, I was probably wrong to dismiss you as being part of all that stuff, I'm sure I'm not alone there, and it's probably a good place to start. For people who might look at this as, like, looking at a mountain and saying, whoa, it looks like it could have been a person's face or a giant creature, or those who might think it's a low-res attempt to validate creationism or something like that, let's get out in front of those assumptions while they're still on their daily commute and still have time to stick around with us. Talk to us about what biogeology is and how you're a lot more analytical than that. Biogeology is a term that I appropriated from mainstream science that's little used, and it describes the exchange between the biosphere and the lithosphere. And most people have never heard of that discipline in the science paradigm. And so I thought this is a wonderful term to denote the distinction between the mainstream narratives that we've been given about the nature of petrogenesis, in other words, where stone comes from, and alternative theories that I was coming across and then also was formulating on my own. So I thought this is a wonderful way to denote that difference because we're given stories about how stone comes about. And it's a pretty simplistic model, really. The cycle of petrogenesis is what it's called, where you have the dying of plant and animal life that are laying down over long periods of time and then eventually compressing. And that's what we call sedimentary layering. And then that compression becomes so great that those layers start to melt and swirl. And then we get these much denser kinds of stone, like marble, for example. And then as that continues and you get closer to the earth's mantle or the core of the earth, you get this immense heating and that all melts into magma. And then that's pushed up through fissures in the earth, which we call volcanoes. And you can obviously witness volcanoes doing their thing and lava coming out of them and eventually cooling. So we know that the formation of igneous stone comes about in the way that we were taught. But there are a lot of things to suggest that maybe the other things aren't exactly as we were taught. And so that's why I appropriated the term biogeology, because I thought it was a great umbrella term for a lot of different things that I was coming across that had to do with titans, gigantic trees, the possibility that petrified organs might exist in large quantities. But we've been blinded to the possibility by the paradigm that we've been raised in. You've got the sedimentary and you've got metamorphic and you've got the igneous. And then I use that term to describe titans, trees, petrified organs, and just this idea of rapid petrification, that there might be different ways in which petrification comes about far quicker than we were taught. Because we know that petrified trees exist and we're given these timelines that this is something that happened two, three hundred million years ago, takes thousands or even millions of years for that to come about. But what if it can happen very, very quickly? And that's really what my whole channel has been about for the last seven years is exploring those ideas. I love it. That's a great intro. And the speed in which this stuff can happen is, I think, one of the most compelling elements that we will get to. But another thing I found compelling is that it's not just a profile of a mountain that looks like the profile of a face or, you know, in the case of your multi-part documentary, a huge three mile long Titan mammoth or some vertebrate type of thing. It's not just the shape of it that looks kind of like a mammoth. It is actually that there seems to be caves and cavities inside this particular mountain, at least that match where the eye socket would be or where the ear canal would be. So it's not just the outside. You have to look at this thing and say, okay, here's what we're looking at. It looks like it could be a mammoth or like a giant dog laying down or some kind of four-legged creature. And then, okay, that's one thing. But then going inside the mountain and having cavities where organs would be and having that match up. Now we're cooking with gas. Now we're talking about a true mystery. And that's something I hoped you could elaborate on. And if you have easy to access photos of that, it would be probably pretty compelling for people to see. Sure. Yeah. I mean, you're talking about the concept of pareidolia, which is this idea that we recognize a face in something or, or a shape, and it's not actually there. And there are loads and loads of photographs circulating from, you know, the people who are interested in these, these subjects of titans or gigantism in general, basically they're presenting these things as if it's just proof of, as a fact that these things once existed. And I was highly skeptical early on. I come from an academic background. I have two college degrees. I did a master's in, in chiropractic and, and, you know, part of that was, was a master's thesis. And so, you know, we learned a lot about the scientific method and how to properly apply it. And, and so I was seeing these, these videos and photographs and the claims being made that I, and I was like, okay, it's a fun idea, but you know, is there, is there truth to it and where's the followup? And, you know, usually it's just one photograph from one angle. They're not accounting for the possibility that could be shadows that are, that are shaping the, you know, the look foliage, snow, that sort of thing. I originally came across these ideas through a few different videos. One was one called geology revived by a channel called wakey wakey that no longer exists. And he was just pulling at the, the threads of geology and challenging the cornerstones of some of the major beliefs about petrogenesis and how, how stone comes about. Then there was a video called no forests on earth or no forests on flat earth. It was looking at the, the giant tree idea and looking at these different tabletop mountains that exist around the world and places like devil's tower in Wyoming, and, you know, suggesting the possibility that these were once great trees. And we're talking about things that were, you know, uh, an order of magnitude larger than the largest trees on earth right now, which would be your sequoias. So I, I, I thought it was fascinating, but it wasn't something that I was going to like jump into and, and, uh, study more, more in depth, but another channel, uh, jdreamers, he was talking about this, this subject, Titan, Titans, and, and, uh, you know, different, uh, things that had to do with eschatology and, uh, you know, cataclysm and, and different periods in time when there were great dyings off. And even in the mainstream geological model, they talk about that. They say there were five great cataclysms. The most recent having been the, the, uh, the asteroid strike that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs and several before that. So we can see in the fossil record that there are all kinds of species that once existed that no longer do. Uh, but, but jdreamers was really synthesizing a lot of these different ideas in a way that was pretty palatable and made sense to me. Uh, but I still wasn't completely convinced, but, uh, it was really the penny drop for me because they're all show some pictures and, and, you know, a little bit, but, um, there were some different sites that he showed, uh, images of like, uh, an Island just off the coast of Maui and another place in Iceland that looked very much like elephants, not just from one angle, but from multiple angles. And for me, that's a key when it comes to pareidolia, if you're looking at something from one angle, well, what, what's it going to look like if you, if you're looking at it from, you know, 90 degrees rotation, is it going to, is it still going to look like what you're thinking? Is it going to look at, if you're looking in 3d and you're tilting and you're zooming around, does it, does it look like that from all these different angles? And I would say the vast majority of what's being shared out there doesn't. And, uh, so that was, uh, an annoyance for me because of the, the steadfast claims that were being made. So once I saw his video, that was when, when I just kind of went, wait a minute, because there there's this mountain in the town that I live in here on the Costa Blanca in Spain called Montgo. Uh, and it's also known affectionately as the elephant here. And, uh, the reason is because it looks a heck of a lot, like an elephant, not just the overall shape, but, but like you mentioned, there's a, there's a cave right where an eye socket should be. And that cave isn't just a, uh, an opening. It's actually shaped like an eye socket. Like we have this eyebrow bridge. And if this were a vertebrate or specifically like a mammoth or elephant type creature, there's as far more pronounced. And it has that, that feature. And so I'd been up at that cave many times on my own, just hiking and checking it out and never contemplated the possibility that I might be walking on a, on an ancient Titan. Uh, but I thought, what a fun, you know, flight of fancy, this is an interesting intellectual exercise. Let's just see what comes about. So I got on Google earth and I started looking at this thing, which is pretty high resolution because this is a nice tourist area. So I was able to get a lot of detail with Google earth and, and tilt and rotate. And what I found after about an hour of, of looking is that there were about eight, nine, 10 different macro anatomical features that matched up perfectly with anatomy and were where they should be. And so I, I was like, that's, that's already a pretty big number. You know, it's one thing if you're looking at something from one angle, it's another thing. If you're looking at it from an angle, it has an eye socket. There's a, there's a quarter moon discoloration. Uh, it's basically the whole mountain is limestone. So it's, it's gray or, or white. Um, and everywhere that the rock is broken away, it's actually reddish underneath. And in fact, when you do break away rock, it exposes these channels that are filled with a red earth and oftentimes iron ore and quartz crystal. And so we can, we can get to that later, but that's basically it's in alignment with the, the composition of, of bone, which, uh, I hadn't really hit on until, until later on, when I started, uh, gathering information about the mountain, but there's this quarter moon, I say cut out. It looks like an ear was removed and it's in the exact place that an ear should be. So, um, and then if you think that the head and the shoulders, there's there, it curves in on both sides, right? Where the head would meet the shoulders. So each one of these is a, is a point on a list of features, right? And the longer that list gets, the more bizarre it is, right? Because it's one thing, if it looks like something from a certain angle, it's another thing, if there's 10 or 20 or 30 or 50 things that line up. And in, in the seven years, since I started this process of, of examining the mountain and looking at it, I've accumulated over 50 anatomical and histological correlations. I've looked, I've been in the caves, I've spelunked them, I've photographed them, I've got video, I've taken microscopy to it, you know, a thousand X microscope and really done a pretty thorough in-depth investigation into, into this. And so when you think about games of chance and rolling dice, and what are the odds of rolling double sixes? What are the odds of rolling it three times in a row or six or 10 times in a row? That number gets astronomical very quickly. And it's the same thing when you're looking at a list of features that, that are highly specific. And I can show people later on what I mean by highly specific, the, the greater that list grows, the, the more likely there's some sort of a, a pattern at work. And then whether we're in some kind of a, a matrix that's, you know, morphing to accommodate my examinations, or, or if this is, you know, the twilight zone, I don't know, but the more I got into it, the more surreal it became, but I, I went in very level headed. And after that initial foray into the, into the idea on Google earth, I got out my anatomy books from school and I started looking more in depth at the, at the anatomy of the eye socket, because I remembered from school that the eye socket is very detailed. It's comprised of seven different bones that make that place where the eyeball sits. And all of those bones have meeting points that are known as sutures. And then there are also fissures, which are, you know, gaps between those bones where things like the optic nerve and blood vessels are, are, are traveling. Right. So I had a list of things that I would expect to find if there was any, you know, truth to this harebrained idea. And I, and I went up to do a little reconnaissance and on that, that first trip up to the eye, after, you know, looking at it through Titanology eyes, I found an additional 10 features within the cave. So already we're up to about 20 and that's, that's a, that's a big number. So the question is, you know, to the skeptic, how, how big does that number have to get before you start to consider something a possibility? Uh, when does it become a, a plausibility? When is it a probability or when is it just a fact? And, uh, for a lot of people that, that number is far lower than it is for me because I'm, I'm skeptical of my own work as well. Um, but there's a lot of other things that have come along, uh, since then that I'm far more confident about than the mountain, which is surprising. Consider how much data I accumulated. Perfect. Well, that is a great summary. And I think I'll probably just have my editor play the trailer during the talking that you were doing. Cause I feel like the trailer on mute really does a good job of showing the cavities as we're talking about them and stuff, because we're already 25 minutes in. There's so many things I want to ask you about. Another thing I did not know about you before getting into this work, when I was kind of just dismissing it is yeah, you're not a geologist, but you have a master's in chiropractic, which means that you are very intimately familiar with one half of the knowledge base of making this sort of claim. So I feel like that's significant and, and should count for something. And I'm also not a huge fan, surprise, surprise of citing the Bible as evidence for something. But the book of Enoch is sort of different because it's a special case and these non canon books, you know, I put them in a different category of, Hey, if they wanted to take that out, there's a reason some truth must be revealed. And the book of Enoch describes the Titans and even gives measurements that fit with this mountain. So that's just something I wanted to throw out there too. But you just mentioned that there are new things outside of the mountain that you are more confident about. What are those things? Well, that's the evidence in favor of the big trees. You know, most people kind of stop short at the plateau mountains or devil's tower. And then there's lots of debate even within the so-called truth or community about what it is or isn't. And I just see that as a data point. It's pretty compelling. You look at it, I'll show a little, you know, video clip for those who aren't familiar later, but you know, it's just one of a plethora of points that, that actually are in favor of the theory and dovetail perfectly. The tabletop mountains is one thing. Devil's tower is another thing. Is there more evidence? And there is a ton of evidence. And a lot of that I've seen with my own eyes. There's a channel called Hangman 1128. And his, he started his channel around the same time that I started mine. And while I was exploring this mountain and presenting the evidence that I was, that I was finding, he was doing the same thing in Colorado and in the, like the Black Hills of South Dakota. And he was presenting images and, and HD footage that was just jaw dropping for me. It was so clear that what I was seeing was, was the remnants of tree, but on a scale that we can't really fathom. We're talking trees that were miles wide at the base. So you can only imagine how high up into the sky, something like that would have stretched. And so that sounds absolutely absurd. And where did the trees go? And, you know, where's the evidence for that? And, and we can get into, um, that as well. Uh, the other thing was, um, there were all kinds of anomalous examples in the field of geology that I was totally unaware of, of things petrifying that shouldn't be of things happening very quickly that should take far longer. Uh, and then along the way, I came across, um, this, the heartstone phenomenon, which, um, is a discovery of my own, where I, I recognize that the, a stone that I saw on a river bottom was matching up with the anatomy of a heart to a very high degree of specificity. And I thought, okay, this is wild. I got to take this home and examine it and get out the anatomy books again. And when I did that, I, I, you know, I found initially about 15 different anatomical correlations on that one stone and it's highly specific. I'll show that as well. Uh, and then I figured, okay, using the scientific method, you know, ideally things should be scalable. They should be repeatable. They should be highly specific and they should be predictable, right? That's, that's, those are kind of the cardinal things you're looking for when you're, when you're looking for a pattern or whether or not, you know, a pattern that you think you're seeing is actually a real pattern. And so I went out and started looking for more of these things and I started finding them in droves and, uh, it's, you know, it's astonishing what, uh, what I've found and what I've presented. And, uh, you, you were also mentioning the whole creationism thing. I just want to come back to the apocryphal texts and, and the book of Enoch and Jasher, because I wasn't aware of any of that stuff because I'm not, I'm not coming at this from a Christian background at all. And I was aware that several of the channels that I was initially looking at that were talking about these kinds of concepts were, were very much coming from that angle. And I'm like, okay, well, the, this is, this is reifying their, their faith in, in the book. Obviously they might have a unconscious vested interest in, in this narrative being true in one way or another. So they, you know, might start to bend the, the data in order to, to fit their narratives and their, their book. But then I found out about, you know, book of Enoch, it's, it says 3000 L's were how tall these things were, and that equates to roughly a mile tall. So that's, that's perfectly on scale with this mountain that I'd been exploring and I had no idea. And then there's a lot of synchronicities that have happened along the way too. Like the river that goes alongside this mountain is actually named Gata de Gorgos and the Gorgos were the Gorgons. And one of them was Medusa, the, the, the goddess of instant petrification, you know, looked at something and boom, it's stone, right? So I'm like, okay, what are the odds of that? You know? And then the heartstone thing led to the discoveries, uh, related. I don't know if you saw the, the helical heart, that the heart is not what we were taught in school at all. Yes. I actually have had a guest do a deep dive on Rudolf Steiner's take on the heart that it's a double vortex. And that's all very compelling. Like blood is a bit of a mystical substance. You can't ever really study it inside of a body. It's studied outside. And when it's oxygenized, it's not the same thing. And when it's separated from the whole, it's also not the same thing. So any scientific assumptions made about blood, I mean, they're kind of weak. And then you got Gerald Pollack, who's been here before coming up again soon, uh, with his new book on anti-gravity, but he, uh, also discovered the fourth phase of water and the water in the cell and the gel state stuff. And yeah, there's a, you know, the, the more you dive into assumptions in the sciences, the more you learn that that's pretty weak. And that actually there's a mystical philosophy about some of this stuff that it can't be studied the way they say it does. You can only study dead tissue. Really. You can only study cut out burned dead tissue. That's been mixed with formaldehyde. So it shows up the right way and added dyes to it. That's not what it really is. You've altered it. And like the scientists, you know, they'll look at a lot of this evidence or something and say, well, you altered that. It's like, well, look at what you're doing in the lab that you, you know, your alterations are apparently okay. And this is just picking up a rock from a riverbed that happens to have all the same qualities of an actual mammalian heart. You didn't do anything to it. You didn't take four rocks together and put them together, or you didn't slice off a piece of the rock to make it look more like a heart. So yeah, very interesting. There's so many different avenues we could go. And with the remainder of the first hour, I just wanted to get into, yeah, sure. I mean, Hey, I'm home now. So I'm on only our time. Uh, I wanted to talk a little bit about the wood and gold relationship or this general theory that you've got that biological materials break down to some of the precious metals and gold and stuff, because one of the questions is why would they lie about a lot of this? Well, obviously there's a lot of money. That's the biggest answer. I mean, well, that, and, and just, I mean, I've come to the conclusion that ology is synonymous with gatekeeping. I think all of the ologies, all of the ologies are compromised in my opinion, and they wouldn't have an ology about something unless there was a need to gatekeep. And I agree. And then when you get into the Royal Society and the Nobel and all that, it's just more of the same. So obviously these theories of mine don't work on a ball, the size they told us, right? Because you can't have trees that big and creatures that big. They would just, you know, be right back where they started pretty quick. So I'm open to the possibility that, that the earth is not what we were taught either, which is, you know, one of the biggest rabbit holes of all. I don't, I don't assert a shape, but I'm definitely a globe skeptic. And I think NASA and all of the space agencies have been feeding us a load of bull for decades. And so awakening to that as a possibility starts to open the doors to the idea that, well, maybe the realm isn't what we were taught. Maybe it extends far further out. You know, we don't know, maybe it's hollow. Maybe it's, you know, there's a lot of maybes, but you don't have to know what something is to be able to determine what it isn't. And so that's presented with a model that is faulty and you pick apart that model. It's actually fallacious reasoning to say, well, where's your model? Yes. No, I agree with that too. Even about nine 11, you know, something as simple as nine 11, you can look at the footage and say, two planes didn't knock down those towers. And then they say, well then three, tell us what did. It's like, yeah, it's like, well, it's not up to me. It maybe it was nano thermite. Maybe Dr. Judy Wood was right. It's really not up to me. Uh, it's, you know, you gave a false story. That's the lie. That's what we should focus on. But okay. In terms of wood and gold. So there is this relationship. Like I was a little ignorant of this, obviously analog broke me into it a bit, but I thought it was super weird. So last night I went online and I'm doing some digging because it just didn't sound right. And, but it's true. You can find gold and petrified wood. The internet will tell you that it's rare, but rare does not mean it's not true. Like, you know, that rare is a qualifier. If it happens ever, then it can happen. So they're not denying it. And then there's forums and subreddits where people are asking, Hey, is this gold in my petrified wood? Cause they're also surprised. And then commenters who have degrees in this stuff will say, well, I don't think that's wood, but it does look like gold. And then the argument devolves, but it just goes to show that it's a lot harder to distinguish these things, even among enthusiasts. What is a rock? What is stone? And what is petrified wood? I mean, the story goes that when NASA gave the moon rock to the Netherlands as a gift, they eventually tested it and it was petrified wood. Why wouldn't they give them a rock from the Arizona desert? They gave them petrified wood. So obviously they were trying to fool them and they thought that would be a good way to do it. So it's just another, you start hearing these things stack up and you're like, huh, the relationship between petrified wood and stone or the, or gold is, you know, closer than people realize. And then I want to throw this in and then I'm going to turn it back over to you. But one of the big things that I thought was so interesting after hours and hours of your work is rapid petrification because our whole model relies on the timelines and we've already dissected carbon 14 dating with previous guests. And I think that's pretty well dismissed, but people still think about geology and the sedimentary layer and the layers of the earth and the little cartoon depictions that my kids are seeing in school, probably right as we speak of all these layers of the earth and how many millions of years it all took. This is where it gets interesting because you have many examples of human made, very rapid short-term petrification. It doesn't take millions of years. It doesn't even take millions of minutes. They can expose wood to certain conditions and gases in a lab and petrify it within days. They grow opals from wood. Colification and biochar is another example. I mean, biochar is a big thing, but it happens quite fast. And if you were to study it in isolation, you might think it was the decay of matter over millions of years. And then you mentioned a guy who goes by Nighthawk in light on YouTube and shows a process of combining chromium oxide, aluminum oxide, steel wool, a couple other factors. And he makes rubies in a microwave in minutes, seconds, seconds. Okay. And then you have a slide that cites trees with metals, dog hearts, acorns and potatoes. There wasn't much elaboration on those things, but the general idea that even fossilization and, and similar processes do not take as long as we've been told is very interesting. I mean, it's like the, the timeline of all these different eras from the Jurassic and Cretaceous. I mean, it's not as rock solid pun intended as they tell us. So talk to us about some of these things because the wood gold gem relationship, and this is, this is the really fascinating stuff to me. You don't need a giant Titan to get into this. I I've come to the conclusion that there are a variety of different ways things can petrify. They can petrify through extremely high heat. They can petrify through electricity, plasma. The mainstream model is what's known as paramineralization, which is the infusion of, of the mineral elements that are in mud and, you know, coming slowly working their way into the tissues as the, as the water and the gases that are in the tissue, whether it's plant life or animal life are working their way out. And that is what we're told is the petrification process, but we're given these extremely long timelines. And as you mentioned with carbon 14 and, you know, the, the dating techniques have often been hotly contested as they've been introduced. And then later on, they, they're settled science and dogma, right? And so we're, we're told all these, these things about the timelines, how long it took for things to come about that may not actually be true. And, you know, when Mount St. Helens erupted, for example, the, it, it laid down like 30 feet of, of layering, you know, from the slurry flow of the, of the pyroclastic flows. There's a geologist that was examining this and he's like, well, normally we would, we would look at this and we would think, you know, this took millions of years to form because you've got all this micro layering, but in reality it formed in a matter of hours. And then later on trees petrified as well, you know? So that's, that's a far shorter timeline than we were given. There are two studies that you made mention of one is with some Japanese scientists where they, um, they took seven different pieces of wood and they just, they, they put them all in hot volcanic waters, which have high mineral content each year. They removed one piece, uh, of, of the seven. And by the time they got to the seventh year, it was fully petrified. So that that's, you know, that's just another one of those interesting things. Uh, volcanic ash combined with high mineral content waters, you know, worldwide flooding. If you've got asteroid strikes or you've got, you know, whatever the cataclysm are, imagine the whole ring of fire going off at the same time, all of those volcanoes spewing up ash. Well, when, when the ash goes up in the air, it's highly conductive. So the biggest electrical storms in the world have been seen and recorded over volcanoes. That's where you can get the most magnificent, you know, lightning strikes. Well, imagine if the whole atmosphere was filled with that kind of stuff, because you've got hundreds of thousands of volcanoes erupting simultaneously. That's the kind of thing that could have happened in the past. And then when you look at what plasma does, like there's experiments where they they're taking electrodes and they're putting them on wood and they're burning this fractal pattern in the wood that just happens naturally. And this gets back to your question about the petrified trees and the metals. So that fractal pattern, you know, on a larger scale is known as a Lichtenberg figure, right? And you can see these when you're looking over the earth on Google Earth, there are lots of these, these different fractal patterns that they tell us are formed by rivulets that eventually accumulate into rivers. But if you just think about it logically, that really doesn't make much sense. The largest of those Lichtenberg figures is the Grand Canyon, right? So we're talking about a fractal pattern that's branching just like our lungs or trees would branch, but it's being done by, by burning on the wood. Well, what if there was a, you know, a plasma storm that was a hundred thousand times bigger than the biggest one we've ever reported? Could that do something like create the Grand Canyon, right? We, we, we can't, it's hard to fathom these kinds of events. You know, you can, you can look at the results of them, but to actually, to actually imagine it happening is, is a challenge. But I, when it comes to the metals in the trees, this is something Ben sent me. I mean, he and I have known each other for a long time and he has fed me a lot of articles over the years that were matching perfectly with the things that I was finding and theorizing about. And then he's got these, you know, a hundred year old pre-Rockefeller takeover articles, you know, that are talking about the stuff matter of fact, talking about petrified organs, talking about petrified fruits, talking about gigantism, talking about crazy cryptids of, of, you know, enormous size. And when you read these texts, they, they, they have a ring of truth about them. They're extremely well-written. It doesn't seem like it's like a national inquirer of the day, their quality writing. So, uh, and he started sending me these and, and some of the ones that were most interesting had to do with the petrified forests, which they harvested. So now we have a couple of spots where people can go and pay to see the petrified trees and maybe buy a piece of one, but these used to be all over the nation, probably all over the world. Where are they now? They were harvested. Why? Because they were filled with gold, silver, copper, and all kinds of, you know, probably precious gems and, and, and other things that, that they were grabbing. And I mean, there's, there's one article where it's talking about, they were asking $15,000 of silver to the ton from these petrified trees. That's a lot of silver. That's $600,000 by today's money. If you, if you go back a hundred years per ton, that's a, that's a good return on your investment, right? So people ask, well, why would they lie about this? If our myths and our legends and our historical texts and our, our religious texts are actually telling the true story of our past, and they're not just, you know, fantasies that were hit upon by primitives, then, then there must be a reason, right? And well, maybe part of that reason is, is the heliocentric evolution, comet strike, cosmos that, you know, we justify our trillion dollar space agencies because we got to get off this rock before we get destroyed. So that's one big giant black hole when it comes to finances, but another is mining, you know, how, how important is mining in this realm? It's pretty darn important. And if you have a jump on where the good stuff is, because you know that that used to be a tree and that used to be a creature and who knows what that was. If you know, if you know those things and everyone else is bamboozled into believing these simplistic stories that we've been given by the mainstream narrative, I call it paradigm blindness, right? You're blinded by the paradigm. We're all blinded by paradigms in one way or another. And we grow up having a certain set of beliefs, you know, there's, there's your vested interest right there. You're going to get a jump on all the, all the precious material. So just to relate this back to the plasma thing is, you know, they, they, they can find golden leaves of living trees. It's not just petrified, you know, petrified trees. It's very, very, very tiny quantities. And what they're telling us is that the trees are sucking it up out of the earth. And the question is, is that true or the trees creating it? Because in the mainstream model, they don't talk about biological transmutation of elements and they don't talk about like plasma or electrical transmutation of elements. We're told that one kind of an atom can only turn into another kind of an atom in the heart of stars or in something like a particle collider or in a nuclear fission reactor, right? There's no acknowledgement of the simple fact that biology creates elements. And the easiest example of that is the chicken egg. Like they've done, they've done measurements where they've looked at how much the chicken is consuming. And they found that the amount of calcium that's in the chicken's diet is less than what is in the shell, let alone what the chicken needs for its own bones. Yeah. So that means that calcium for the shell, which it's primarily calcium, has to be coming from somewhere so that the chicken is consuming things and then somehow biologically fusing them together to create an element, which we're told is impossible. So I believe that the mainstream periodic table of elements is accurate enough that it can be used for the production of different things, but it's skewed in a way that throws us off the real nature of reality. And I think it's closer to somebody like Walter Russell's ideas about, you know, about the periodic table. And then just the last point, and then I'll pass it back to you. You know, we have monatomics in our bloodstream, in our bodies, right? We have monatomic gold, we have monatomic silver. The part contains the whole, right? As the whole cliche, as above, so below, as within, so without, you know, it's, we, we have everything in us. And that's kind of the, the idea behind homeopathy also is like, you know, you're energetically affecting the body because everything contains everything. So we have these monatomics. Well, if you hit a body or a tree with an incredible force, like a Lichtenberg figure would, you know, like, like what would be needed to create one of those, then all of those elements that are not burned away are going to align themselves along the line of current. So we were told that, that sap is petrified, that amber is petrified sap. I don't believe that. I think that, first of all, it's a 2.5 on the hardness scale, on the Mohs scale, right? You can dent, you can dent amber with your fingernail. What would it look like if it was turned to stone? And, and that's where we get into the work of Hangman 1128. He's showing that the sap petrifies into varying types of quartz, depending on the tree. Sap can come in any color, right? You've got green, red, all kinds of stuff. There are quartz crystals, like what you're holding there, that grow, right? And you can grow crystals in a laboratory very quickly. Like you can grow a big crystal in as little as like 40 or 50 days with the right nutrients. And so that that's different from what I'll show later as we get into the presentation. But the idea being where do they find gold and silver? They find them in quartz seams. So they go looking for the quartz, which would be the sap, right? And then what do they find in the, the, the, the quartz seams, they, they find gold veins and silver veins. So, and these are also typically like in a fractal kind of a shape. So I think what's happening is that there's a transmutation of elements. I don't think that the old trees that eventually petrified were growing the metal in, inside of them. I think that it coalesced into these lines of current as it was being, as it was being petrified. So many interesting things. And yeah, obviously I've got some quartz crystal up on my desk. You know, I interviewed some of these new agey people and they're like, well, it's good to have around for the signals and all this. And I don't feel anything, but I think they're kind of cool. And you know, I just, I looked at this and I'm trying to think of it like open-mindedly about potential of it being something else or having been something else. But I mean, they have these crystal growing kits for kids. And like you say, it's something different. So I guess it is something different, but that's kind of one of the ones that's hard for me to wrap my head around. But another thing I just wanted to point out for people is you talk about the hard boiled egg theory, and that is a really great way to think about just the simple process of heat, turning liquid biomaterial into a solid state. I mean, it's not exactly a rock, but you know, the white of the egg and the yolk is transformed by just a little bit of heat for five minutes. Think about heat that's a hundred times hotter. You know, think about a lightning strike or something. What could it do? I think it's compelling. I think that's a great like entry point into, well, just the simple heat can, can transform aspects of biological material into something that's hardly recognizable, but yet we take it for granted because we know about eggs. Yeah. I, I was finding these heartstones, you know, that, that we're matching up with anatomy to a high degree of specificity and, and they should not have been, you know, based on what we're taught because we're told that, that a stone like this is just a, is a broken fragment of a larger structure that, that banged around in a river bottom and, and through water and acid rain or, you know, different kinds of erosion. Eventually it took on this shape. That's all well and good until that shape starts to be highly specific and matching anatomy and scalable, you know, from little to big and, uh, you know, very, very repeatable to, to a high degree of specificity, specificity. Then, then that idea of it being a broken fragment of something larger kind of gets thrown out the window. And so I, I couldn't understand it because a lot of people were asking me like, what was it? Was it a widespread sacrifice where they removed the organs and petrified them? I'm like, no, it, you know, I don't know how it happened, but eventually I came up with boiled egg theory, which, which if you think about the chest, uh, and abdominal cavities, you have the heart and the lungs are in there and the liver and all the other organs, and they're all suspended in water, right? They're floating around and anchored in place. And then the, the cavities themselves are big fatty containers. And I was like, wow, that's like a pressure cooker. And what happens when you use a pressure cooker, you need less heat for less time. So if you have a pressure cooker and you use a lot of heat for more time, what's that going to do to whatever's inside? And, uh, it's, it's very interesting because the, you know, I mean, we see what happens with eggs, but if you cook an egg too quick, too fast, it starts to leak out and the protein escapes because the shell is rigid, but the heart has the thickest of the fatty sacs that surrounds it. It's called the pericardium. And that's flexible to accommodate for the contraction of the heart while we're alive. But when we die, everything goes into rigor mortis and the heart being a muscle, it also hardens. So if you think of the heart as being roughly the size of your fist, right? It has form that, that you've got the ventricles, you've got this tapering in, you've got the big blood vessels that are coming out of the top, the aorta and the vena cava. You have a whole bunch of features that, that are, you know, very specific and when heated up to a, to a high degree could very well harden like that. So I don't have an experiment where I've turned hearts to stone, but analog sent me an article of, you know, there were several, several articles that had to do with petrified hearts. And one guy who was a subscriber on my channel, he had a, his Australian Ridgeback dog passed away and he created this pyre to burn, you know, to cremate the dog. And it was eight feet long, four feet wide, six feet high, and it burned for 36 hours. And he, he saw my videos and he was like, this is mind blowing because after the fire was all, all burned out, he went to like pour water on it just to make sure there were no embers that were still aglow. And the only thing that survived that fire was the heart. And he, and he said that it had, it had hardened to a high degree. So it's interesting. You've got that, that chest and abdominal cavity, you got the pressure, you have the protective layer of the pericardium and imagine, uh, you know, a plasma strike, you know, lightning, uh, but sustained and way more powerful than our typical lightning strikes that could easy, easily burn away the outer portions of the body. And, and aside from plasma, there's also pyroclastic flows, which are, are said to reach temperatures of up to 1500 degrees Celsius and can travel at the speed of sound. So if you, if you go into a hot sauna and you blow on your arm, you can almost burn your arm because, because the, it doesn't, the, the blowing isn't going to cool it down. It actually heats things up, right? So when you get to those higher temperatures, super high winds with super high heat, that could easily annihilate a body like ours in short order. Very interesting. So I have to ask you about this. Cause we're talking about the hearts thing. There's a longer video on your channel. I didn't get to watch it in time, but I wanted to ask you about it anyway. About four years ago, you posted this, a big thank you to all who have been patiently and eagerly awaiting the results of the laboratory testing of the heart stones. The results are in, and tonight we'll have a thorough and long go through the results and their implications paradigm crushed. Well, that sounds exciting. What were some of the results of the tests? Yeah. Well, I, uh, I had a run in, you could say with a couple of guys and, uh, I sent stones to them. I put out a video before that called exciting research day. Cause they reached out to me seemingly in good faith, you know, cause they were curious. They'd seen the videos and wondered about them and, and wondered if, uh, I might be willing to send them some, some stones to have analyzed it at a laboratory that was being run by one of the two guys. And I thought, absolutely. Because in a previous stream, I literally asked for that. And I said, if anyone knows anybody, I'd like to, you know, continue this research and, and, uh, get some actual data. I didn't know what the conclusions were going to be, but I'm, I'm going to be intellectually honest about it. And, you know, sent them off. They offered to pay me for the stones and I declined. I just wanted the data. Yeah. I can, uh, I can show you the actual report that I got back and you can decide for yourself whether it has any merit, but I, I had, uh, uh, an initial conversation with, uh, the first of the two guys that lasted about 45 minutes. And he asked if he could record the call. And I've said, sure. I had nothing that I, you know, to hide or, or anything to worry about. So we had that conversation and then, I don't know, six weeks later or something, the two of them had a conversation discussing the results of the, the testing. And they recorded that conversation as well. So I, I received, uh, both of those audio files and, uh, and then I received the, the supposed lab results. And, uh, I was shocked and astonished. This was supposedly a reputable laboratory with a guy who was highly respected and they just gave me the runaround. They didn't conduct a single, uh, experimentation or examination on the stone. It was all just looking at them and drawing conclusions. And then I mean, I'll show it because it's, it's absolutely a travesty. What, what these two guys did. So I, I realized, okay, either these guys are just, you know, they have a vested interest in this, or, you know, I didn't know exactly what was going on, but I, I took those audio files and I broke them down sentence by sentence, because obviously we're talking about some pretty technical terms. And a lot of times when you get into anatomy, you've got your Latin there. And so I wanted people to understand that these ideas aren't really that complicated, the things that they're claiming about the stones. We can look at that. I can show you with stones. I can show you all of these different features and you can decide for yourself, you know, who, who makes more sense. And so that video is unfortunately three hours long because, uh, because 90 minutes of it is me going through the audio and, uh, and, and they're, they're talking about something and then I bring up visuals. So, so you don't have to be an expert in any of this to examine that, you know, with discernment and decide for yourself who makes more sense. Um, but when you, when you see the actual report, it's a joke. Fair enough. So it's not so much that the data told us anything conclusive, but it's more about the behavior. I got, I didn't get a single number. So it's more about the behavior of these guys that was telling to you because it was so, and then they started insinuating that I might be in it for the money and they're talking about the Dunning-Kruger effect and they're talking about cherry picking and they're talking about all of these supposed mistakes that I had made as I approached this topic. And it was very clear they hadn't even bothered to watch any of my videos on the subject before contacting me because I had addressed every one of those things from the very first video I made on the subject. And I had, you know, visual evidence for everything that I was talking about. So it was, uh, it was really a disappointment. Oh, and then, and then the followup was, was this guy, he titles a video paradigm crushed, like uses the same title as mine. Gotcha. It's a three hour video and it's, and it's him standing in a field wearing a white lab coat with his cane talking in a Southern drawl and just mocking me. And it's, it's one logical fallacy after another. He doesn't address any of the data or any of the things that I brought up in the video. It's 15 minutes long sitting with a buddy in a field on two like folding chairs. And they're, they're just basically laughing about how stupid I was and how I could, uh, I could arrive at these conclusions. So frustrating. It's like, look, just cut open the fucking rock, cut open the goddamn rock and let's look at it. Yeah. Well, I, I thought they were going to do spectroscopy. That was the whole reason I sent the rocks off. I, or at least, you know, some other forms of analysis. So I could at least start to find out what are the constituent elements that are comprising these stones. And so instead, all I got was a story and, uh, a survey, which I'll, I'll show in a little bit. So you clearly know a little bit about the heart and I've seen you talk about this before. It's not just that the outside looks like a heart, the actual connection points are all where they should be. It looks like, uh, you know, like a Frankenstein stitch down the side, but this is how our heart is pieced together. And so when you look at it in rock formation, that that's what you see. Fossilization is not controversial. My dad used to have a little fossil of a fish on his desk. Like that's basically very adjacent to what we're talking about. It's not really considered odd at all. We're just talking about the speed in which this happens and that it might happen in other ways than we're told. And we're going to get deeper into this, but you know, to kind of cap out this first hour and then towards the end of the thing, I think the best way to do it is talk about the couple of questions I have about the book, just so they can be kind of bookended on to the first hour. So people can hear that too. But I guess just, I want to know what, what are your big questions left with this material and how do you fold the implications of all these things into like your big picture of reality in the past and what this world is? Well, if we're not in some kind of a simulation, you know, a matrix, and I, I, I operate, uh, under the belief, the assumption that we're not that, that there's a physical reality. And then there's this like artificial overlay that, that we get through our black mirrors and the, you know, in the form of brainwashing and programming. And so I think that, that we live in a creative realm. I'm not coming at it from a Christian perspective at all, but, but I, I do believe that the, the fingerprints of the creator can be found everywhere if you just have the eyes to see it. And we've been, we've been blinded to that obvious fact, you know, the, the, the geometry that exists throughout everything. It's like, we're told that this all happened through random chance that there's a big bang, things bump around. And then as Rob Skiba once said, you know, you, we, we go from goo to you by way of the zoo. And that's what they want us to believe with all these theories of evolution. And, you know, obviously adaptation takes place, but, uh, you know, evolution as a, as a theory has a lot of holes in it. Well, let me say, you know, my theory for reality, and I, I still don't know anything to be true, but many different books and researchers and cosmologies from all over seem to overlap in this idea that there's a higher realm of symbols and archetypes and spirits and angels, some kind of like ethereal forms and ethereal place where really our consciousness is actually likely to be broadcasted from. And it's all projected down here in an illusionary physical realm that feels deceptively solid and real. That's what a range of sources seem to suggest. And if that's true, then really nothing is off the table. There really aren't like solid, eternal physical laws that can never be violated. Maybe Titans did walk the earth, I guess. I mean, how many myths start with giant animals or beings of some kind? What I've been told is that the earliest rituals, my buddy, Gordon White, big into magic. He says the earliest religious rites and rituals were done to a snake God that they just imagined formed the physical world. And a lot of times, you know, you're talking about a spirit form. You're talking about like mother ayahuasca appears as a snake. And I think, you know, some people might say, well, you're literalizing something, but the story goes back thousands and thousands of years. So what conclusions can we make about it? I'm just saying that there are stories about giant creatures and Quetzalcoatl type things, you know, feathered serpents and all sorts of things. Maybe there's a, a way in which they were real. Maybe the configuration of the earth was completely different or whatever this thing is. That's not even controversial. They say dinosaurs walked the earth. They couldn't live today because why the environment was fucking different. That's what the mainstream will tell you. So let's just scale that up or adjust it slightly. And things that sound mystical and impossible actually don't anymore. Well, the mainstream, you know, narrative when it comes to Titans is they couldn't have existed because they would have such a gravitational pull because of their mass. They would collapse under their own weight, but that assumes that what we've been taught about gravity is true and that the Einsteinian gravity that we have, which was, you know, superseded the, the Newtonian gravity of mass attracting mass. And now is a warpy bendy space-time continuum that, that was hypothesized by Einstein. And many have concluded that, you know, it's never actually been proven to be true. Our whole entire cosmological model is based on all of that. And so they say that that's why these trees couldn't have existed, even though the, the, the remnants of them are everywhere, but we've been blinded to the truth of that. Right. It's there in, in my opinion, it's self-evident when you, when you see it and you, if you know what a tree looks like and you see a tree break down in the forest, you can see the, the qualities that the tree exhibits and how it looks when it starts to become the forest floor instead of a tree and, and all the stages in between, all of that can be seen, but on a far, far greater scale. So there's so much there to, to examine, but we've been blinded to the, to the potential truth of it. And I think that's all by design. I mean, you've mentioned magic and wizards. I think, you know, ultimately we live in a realm that's being run by dark magicians and, and they've convinced everyone that magic isn't real. And because they turn us into muggles that way. Right. If you don't believe in magic, you know, you're not going to be able to do it, you know, and I've, I've seen, I've seen, uh, I've seen children that can, um, read blindfolded, play chess, catch, uh, you know, do all kinds of stuff with my own eyes on, on more than one occasion. There are, there are people teaching children how to do this now. It's undeniable what, what they're able to do. So we have faculties that we haven't even begun to unlock because we've all been dumbed down about the nature of our reality. Hmm. Yes. Well said. I do agree with you there. So let me ask you a little more about the trees because the trees are one of the things that is still like a head scratcher to me. I kind of can't really accept it. I can acknowledge that the stump looks like a tree stump. Sure. And I also can acknowledge that for most of human history, we couldn't see the top of this stump and now we can with drones and stuff. And when you go up there and you look at it from the top down, it has rings like a tree would have rings. And then you go to the conventional geological explanation of how such things would form. And they would say that it would be layering. Well, layering is, uh, you know, those are horizontal lines, not, uh, circumference rings. Yeah, exactly. Right. One, one excludes the other. Yeah, that is odd. But that to me is just a, a, you know, it's a question mark, but it's not enough for me to say, exactly. It's not enough for me to say, well, these were trees because my remaining questions are, well, where is the rest of the tree? Of course, I know you've brought that up. And then my other thing would be like, well, why can't we just get down to the root structure? Why don't we just look at what's under this thing, whether it's ground penetrating radar or something like that? If we have cave systems down there where the roots have kind of, you know, gone away and left cavities and they match the structure of a tree. Well, now I'm a little more compelled, but I just, just like you've said, like, well, the questions start to come up. Who cut this tree down? What happened to the tree? Where is the trunk? You know, was Paul Bunyan real? It's possible. Did babe, the blue ox carry it off somewhere? How do you, how do you wrestle with those things? Cause you look at the thing, you look at the stump and you're like, that looks like a tree stump, but you know, make a better case than that for me. Oh, I, I, I can definitely do that, but it's a visual thing. So should I, should I start sharing a screen here? Yes, let's do it. So let's say we're in the plus show and let's say that we tried this before we started. And when, uh, I talk, there's a big echo, so I'm just going to shut up and you do your thing. Okay. So, you know, just to give some visuals for what you were, you were just talking about. Um, let's see, there we go. You see that the, yes, yes, no forest on earth, the geology revived. These are the, the different ones that I mentioned, uh, before. And then this is, you know, what we're talking about when it comes to like these tabletop mountains that exist all over the place. Oftentimes they'll have these never ending waterfalls that are coming from the top that can't be explained with rainfall. And so some of them have flat tops and others look like, you know, tree that just got broken off. And then you can see root structures. And these are just one data point. Uh, and that's Jugurtha, which is the one, you know, that's what you were just referring to with the concentric rings. And, you know, it begs the question, uh, who cut them down if they were cut down. And I, I made a video called felling Titanic trees, where I just pause it. What if they were using something as, as primitive as a diamond rope saw? Um, you know, it doesn't have to be some kind of advanced alien technology or lasers or something like that to account for, for the trees being brought down and the Bible or the book of Jasher. I don't remember. They talk about the angel, the angels went to work at the trees. They brought them down prior to the great flood because the, uh, God didn't want the corrupted beings to be able to flee the flood. So that was apparently the purpose for bringing them down according to the, the biblical narrative. And then we got Paul Bunyan and, and, uh, you know, Medusa. This is what I was talking about before all these different photographs that are, that are being shown by people that, uh, you know, they, they, they see this as unequivocal proof that, that this was once a face, this was once a foot, et cetera. And I, and I challenge that and there's not much in the way of follow-up. So a place like this would be interesting to follow up because you have those, those, uh, eye sockets there that, um, you could get into and examine to see if there's anything that is resembling the, the anatomy, uh, that should be there if it were indeed an eye socket. So this is the petrified Titans, uh, video that I was talking about the J dreamers made and showing this, this elephant, you see my cursor when I'm moving my cursor. Yes. Okay. And, uh, so this is, um, you know, the, the idea that, that space time is bending and we have this thing called the square cube law. And as you double the dynamiter of something, the, the volume scales exponentially, which would give you this, this, um, you know, uh, gravitational pull that would be so great that the bones wouldn't be able to support it. So that's the, that's the official story. So I, I've been looking at all of these subjects for the last 10 years, roughly. And what I, what I find is there's some truth to all of them, but people get hung up on their favorite theories and they, they run with those and then they start excluding all the other ones. And then you get all this squabbling and, and, uh, you know, questions about, um, the nature of reality and people arguing about it. So, I think ultimately what we need to be doing is, is this sort of thing, cross-disciplinary field research, where we're examining the things and looking at where are the connecting points. And we need to be aware of these kinds of things, which I've already talked about pareidolia. Apophania is, is the same as pareidolia, but when you rec, it's when you recognize a pattern that doesn't actually exist. And the cherry picking is what they would claim I've done with the heartstones. Dunning-Kruger effect is when you think, you know, uh, a lot about something, but you've only just, you know, begun to look into it. So these are the kinds of, uh, pitfalls, but I, I'm a big fan of proper application of the scientific, scientific method when it's not, uh, you know, being used with, uh, logical fallacies, which seems to be pretty common in this day and age. We talked about the heliocentric model, and this becomes the justification for our earth timelines, where we talk about the earth being four plus billion years old and, uh, and these great dyings off that occurred, the mass extinctions, which we talked about the last of them being the, the dinosaurs. And this is the, the sedimentary layering model. And you can see these numbers are getting very large, the further down you go 400, 500 million years. Um, and so we talked about the, the cycle of petrozenesis and, uh, that's, you know, that's how they, they say that all of these structures came about. So now we get to devil's tower and looks a heck of a lot like a tree stump might not be, but all of the mainstream theories are that this is lava that got pushed up. The earth used to be up here 50 million years ago. And then there was some kind of a rapid cooling event that caused the lava to expand as it cooled. And that is where we get those, those honeycomb columns from, which I'll show photos of in a moment. So the ancients had a completely different view. They talked oftentimes about the world tree, the cosmic egg theories. There's all sorts of continents that are missing now on our current maps that used to be on the older maps. And, uh, and then we get a lot of truth drops in Hollywood in the form of giant, you know, trees and avatar. And I think that, that, uh, this, you know, may just be speaking to something inside the collective unconscious where we actually have memories of this time in the past that once existed. Um, and so there are a number of terms that have been used, the plasma apocalypse, the Emco event, the electromagnetic plasma changeover event. Uh, it's been referred to as the Phoenix event. And, uh, and I think when it comes to Phoenix and Medusa, we're probably talking about anthropomorphizations of a plasma event that they're, that they're, you know, giving human qualities and that's what is surviving in our, in our legends. And maybe that's how they, you know, if, if this information is being actively suppressed, then maybe it's through story and legend that they're able to, to keep it alive. But this is lava. This is what it does. It never makes a straight line ever. It's all amorphous and just kind of globular and flowing around. And then we're told that this is being formed from that. And that's a great story, but they can't actually show it happening because it happened millions of years ago. They can't reproduce it in any kind of a laboratory experiment. And if you just look at it, it kind of defies the narrative. In my opinion, you have this honeycomb pattern, and then you're going to have a greater honeycomb pattern. And this is exactly how different kinds of plant life form. You know, they have these, these fractal like patterns to their fibers. And even if you bought the cooling lava narrative, how do you explain something like this, where it's just like a diagonal straight line? Um, you know, couldn't have been formed by a glacier because this, this bit is over here untouched. So it's just, uh, you know, uh, lots of things that make you go, hmm, additional data points, right? You get this swirling that, that fibers do this, right? And even if you buy that in the mainstream narrative, I'm going to show a whole bunch of stuff now that makes it really hard to, uh, to buy that narrative. Like how does this come about from, from some rapid cooling that looks far more biological than geological in my opinion? And here's another example of the hexagonal columns, but look, it's got these circles in the center. How does that come about through rapid cooling lava? It doesn't make any sense. But even if you think it does explain this to me, like these are, I'm going to show places all over the world that, and these pictures are pre AI. I gathered these years ago and they've been in many of my presentations. So it's not just me, uh, you know, pulling fun, fun photographs out of, out of the AI engines. So this has a very biological look to it. You know, it looks like cellular and blood and is it, I don't know, but, um, you know, it's something to ponder and I'll show video of that site in a moment. These are called concretions and, you know, they'll have their mainstream narratives for how these form, but is it possible that maybe this is formed through some kind of plasma event, or these are seeds of a great tree or, or, you know, there's a lot of different possibilities, but I'm not attached to any of them. I'm just looking at it as, as information. And then if you look at all this micro layering and you see how it's swirling and going up into this area, that almost looks like a cell structure and continuing in, I can't even begin to imagine how that formed, but what I can tell you is it didn't form through dead animal and plant life laying down over millions of years of time. It just doesn't make any sense. This is a white pocket in, I believe, Arizona. And again, it has a very, very biological look to it. And sometimes things look like things and other times they don't, but this is the sediment tree layering. And then this is what I was talking about before this happened in three hours, uh, when Mount Mount St. Helens erupted. And as a grain, we're being propelled over the surface in a slurry. Do you hear the sound? Yes, actually, I was just going to say that I already took a note that I wanted to make sure I included this, even if it had to be in my wrap up or something, because I find this to be really compelling to have a geologist expert, having his paradigm blown live in this footage. In this flurry, the particles separated coarse and fine into thin layers. I had thought that a catastrophe would mix up all of the particles and make a homogenized deposit. Boy, was I wrong. Right here, a pyroclastic flow moving at freeway speed or higher can separate particles into coarse and fine. So layering doesn't require millions of years, thousands of years, or even hundreds of years. It can form rapidly in this slurry flow process. So Mount St. Helens tells us something really interesting about how rapidly strata can form. There's even micro thin lamination in this deposit. It's remarkable. Right. So even, even petrified trees as well. So let's jump to the book and I'll piece this into, yes, I'll piece this into both parts of the show. So, so we don't have to go too deep into the book though. It is full of fun things I highlighted and would enjoy talking to you about. Probably not really even the best material for this show. Not maybe resonant with this audience, but more just interesting stuff. Regardless, when you were sentenced, you were given a couple of weeks of jail time, a year of probation and mandatory community service where you are tasked with helping the National Coalition for Children's Justice to build a network and database to track and catch child traffickers and abusers. Here's a quote from your book about the conversation you had with the organization's founder, Ken Wooden. Without going into graphic detail, Ken told me the horror stories of child slavery, satanic cults, and hideous rituals involving children. He continued, most of the children who go missing are never found. Many suffer horrible abuse at the hands of sinister people. Tragically, most of these crimes go unreported. And despite our countless attempts to grab their attention, the media remains almost entirely silent. Why won't they do anything about it? You asked. It's hard to say, Michael. It might be because some of these crimes involved individuals in powerful positions who like things the way they are. We do our best to expose these horrors, but all too often were ignored by those with the power to do something about it. I'm certain more of these children can be found, and this is where you might be able to help. You see, I believe that the creation of a nationwide network for tracking missing children would be the perfect tool in the fight. When Ken first told me of the horrors perpetrated on children worldwide, I must admit it sounded far-fetched. Satanists and government and secret organizations kidnapping and using children for horrific rituals, it seemed more like the makings of a Hollywood movie. But in the decades since, Ken's information has shown itself to be highly accurate and sadly far more widespread than most can imagine. Ken was decades ahead of his time. Oh, wow. This is not the main thrust of the book, but it is relevant to your story. And yeah, well, you know, that's, that's my thing. So it is the quintessential conspiracy podcast. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know about that, but anyway, so you said it, not me, but a lot has been exposed since that time from the founders cult and the Franklin scandal to NXIVM and of course, Epstein. But can you elaborate on any of the things that Ken might have told you that stuck out? Maybe things that are less known about? Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the things that was happening back then is that they were very organized. They were using bulletin boards to communicate and share information with each other, just like the hackers were. And, you know, computer hobbyists in general, the BBSs of the eighties was, was kind of our first wave of internet for the individual. And that was where I gleaned a lot of information was from the bulletin boards and then party lines. We would, we would do conference calling, making use of a service called Alliance Teleconferencing, which we knew how to game. The people that were, you know, capturing and trafficking children, they were making use of these, these systems as well. So initially when, when Kenneth wouldn't reached out to the judge, he saw me on television. His friend was George Gallup of the Gallup polls. And George saw me coming out of the courtroom at the arraignment, which was very big news. It hit the newspapers across the country. And, and so when, when that happened, um, he called up Ken and he said, I've got an idea. You've been talking about wanting to create this network, uh, you know, to try and track missing children. Cause up until that point, apart from putting their faces on, on, you know, milk cartons and some sort of an MK ultra mind control, kind of a fear porn thing for children, you know, get your cereal in the morning and worry about getting kidnapped. You know, I'm glad you said that because that's how I think of it too. It's like, you got to expose this stuff somehow, but I always had a weird feeling about that too, that it was kind of a fear-based thing. Yeah. But there was no interstate cooperation in the country at that time. If you, if you took the child across the border to another state, it was basically yours, right? They weren't going to, they weren't going to chase, chase it down. So that was what he was trying to, to get around and, and to, you know, improve upon. And so he didn't have the funds to, you know, to put together some massive network. And so he and George Gallup had this idea of what if we started to, you know, use the skills of, of young hackers who are, are good guys, but have run amok of the law and, uh, you know, utilize their skills to, to build this network. And so that was, that was, uh, how that whole thing began. And I pulled in a couple of my hacking buddies, one of whom showed up on the radar on October 17th for the first time I talked to him in years and years. And it happened to be the 40 year anniversary of my bust. I was busted on October 17th, 1985. So synchronicity is, is, um, you know, followed me a lot through, through all of this stuff. But, um, yeah, so he was a real vanguard, uh, and, uh, he wrote a book called, uh, child lures, crying in the playtime of others, and, uh, was the founder of this, this coalition for children's justice and, uh, spend a lot of years educating in schools and trying to teach parents, you know, what the, what the warning signs were and how to, you know, avoid your child being one of the, the victims of that sort of thing. So, and then he told me about the SRA and, uh, uh, you know, satanic ritual abuse and, and these other things. And so that was a bit of a, uh, uh, you know, a red pill for me at, at 19 years old and, and in the decades since it's all, you know, come to light. You see what, you know, the Royal Royal families with the Prince and the Vatican and all, all that was, uh, revealed for what they were doing, tens of thousands of priests, you know, doing horrible things and just being shuffled around. And you've got the Epstein thing, uh, Nixxiom and all this stuff. It's like, okay, well he was right. You know, I mean, yeah, I am just curious. I mean, primarily about, I'm always most curious about when it's ritualized or when it involves dark magic or something that it's not just, Oh, I'm attracted to children. So I steal them and abuse them for my sexual pleasure. That's obviously sick and gross, but I mean, it's way more bizarre and complex to think that there is a power attained by doing something like this, that it isn't about them getting off. It's more about like harnessing human sacrifice and that sort of stuff. I very much believe that's happening on a widespread basis in the upper echelons of power. There's just so much evidence to, to prove it. And, uh, yeah, yeah, this is a little, I took it out of the book, but there was a section in the book that I had originally, it was about, uh, Aaron Schwartz. You know, are you familiar with him? A little bit. Aaron Schwartz, is he the Reddit guy? Yeah. Yeah. There's a documentary about his life called, um, well, there's probably several, but the internet's own boy. And he was a real champion of the decentralization. That was, you know, one of the, the, the tenants of the hacker philosophy, right? Distrust of government information should be free decentralization so that power power can't be consolidated in the hands of the few. Um, the idea that we can use technology to better our lives and improve our, our plight here, right. When it's not being used for nefarious means and for control purposes. So these are kind of the, the, the hacking ethics, you know, which are applicable to the, what we would call the truth or community in today's world. Aaron Schwartz was really a champion of those ideas and wrote, wrote, uh, texts on them. And, and, um, so he was busted for, uh, going into MIT media labs, which, uh, interestingly enough, it ties directly to Bill Gates and Epstein in a very big way. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. They, they were, they were funding and they were deeply involved in, in, in stuff that was going on there. And he was down in, in one of the server rooms and he basically liberated 2.3 million, uh, articles that were in JSTOR, which is like, um, you've got PubMed and Elsevier, and then you have JSTOR, which are like the big repositories of, of research that are found around the world, but everything's behind a paywall. So if you're like a, a genius kid in a third world country, you're not going to have access to any of the latest research because you, you got to pay for it. Right. So he, he thought that that was fundamentally wrong. If, you know, information should be free. If something can be used for the betterment of humanity, it shouldn't be patented, capitalized upon, and then, you know, feed into the greed matrix, which is exactly what we live in now. Right. So, uh, he, he was a real hero in my opinion, a hacker from heaven, I would call him. And, uh, that was actually the name of the program that, that Kenneth Wooden founded that I was a part of was hackers from heaven. And there's chapters in the book about that. That's what you were reading there. But, uh, when, when Schwartz went in, he downloaded all these articles, but there were people that were theorizing because he, he supposedly committed suicide, which is very, very odd, the timing of it. And, you know, he looked like he could potentially get off or get off with a lot less, but, um, you know, they, they say that he, he killed himself and I don't believe it for, for a second. But, um, interestingly, uh, there's people who have talked about it because he was connected to fiber optic and, you know, text files don't take that long to download a movie or, you know, several movies. That's a different thing. So some people are hypothesizing that maybe the reason he, he died is because he was accessing a whole bunch of other information that was probably video. And, uh, so, you know, it's a, it, it's a, uh, speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised because, uh, I don't believe that he or Epstein killed himself. Oh, actually that I just watched your last episode, uh, with, um, uh, McAfee's wife. Oh yeah. I was actually gonna ask you your thoughts on, on John McAfee. So first off, yeah, I knew there was an Epstein MIT link broadly. Uh, but I did not know that. I mean, I guess you just have to assume if there's that link, then who knows what really was down there, but what Aaron liberated to use the term that I'm aware of, it was like, um, a repository of data that like any student could access. So it was just gate kept to students. Or you were part of a research institution or a government facility. So again, it's gatekeeping of knowledge. Exactly. So I really don't think it's that big of a deal that it was exposed, but then, yeah, I never really thought much about until you said it, the idea that maybe there was some dark compromise or some of these dark Epstein adjacent things and he got it. And so they were like, well, you can't live, uh, knowing that or having that man. It's a possibility. I mean, all the weird stuff on his ranch with the, the cloning and, you know, these, these things that have a lot of information has come out about that stuff. And, uh, yeah, the connection and also the, I think the lab director, the MIT media lab director, like was forced to resign under controversial circumstances. So let me, let me ask you about McAfee, just because there's a lot of weird stuff there. Having read the book, you know, you, you were at ground zero with this phone freaking. And I actually like these stories where hacking had a little more physicality to it or a little more mechanical nature to like what you were doing. There's a really interesting story about this guy, Captain Crunch, who basically discovered that when he, I might be mixing two stories, but somebody whistled and then they realized that the phone had an effect. So then in some cases you just call the company and you say, what happened here? And they explain it to you and then it's exploited. So he found out that the Captain Crunch whistle that came in a cereal box made a certain tone that triggered the phone to allow for a free long distance call or something adjacent to that. It was a bit more complicated than that. It was, uh, the tone was 2,600 Hertz and there's actually been a long, long standing publication called that. That's a hacker magazine. And then there's another one that was called, um, um, or shoot, what is it? Uh, frack, which is like freaking and hacking combined. Uh, frack episode four talks about me and my bust and, uh, the, but, uh, 2,600 Hertz. If you, if you blew that tone, it would knock the operator off of her trunk. So she would think the line got disconnected. And then, then if you had the ability to create multi-frequency tones that were the same tones that were being used by the network, then if you had the skills and you knew how to do it, you could do anything the telephone operator could do. And she had no idea because she was just onto her next call. So there were these things called blue boxes and red boxes and lots of other colored boxes. The blue box was the most famous of them because that was creating these tones. That's how Apple got started actually. Steve Jobs and Wozniak were, were creating the first digital version of those. So they brought the size down and the price, you know, it was affordable. And so they, they made a lot of money selling those. And just at the point where they were probably about to get busted for fraud or facilitating fraud, they, they left it behind. They use that money to found Apple. That's so crazy. That's their story. Who knows if it's true or not, but you're also very clear in the book. I know we're going to talk about McAfee, but you're also very clear in the book about your disdain for Bill Gates. And just because you were giving the hacker ethos, I also wanted to point out how instrumental he was in kind of breaking all that up and like being the one to be like, no, we got a priority, like, uh, privatize this stuff and we've got to patent it. And once one person does that, I mean, other people start to follow suit because like, it kind of becomes like a race to the bottom or a race to centralized, compromised capital and all this kind of thing. But he was so key in that. And of course he doesn't know a whole lot about computers from my understanding. It was really his mom who worked for MIT, who basically mobilized the students of MIT. She said, Hey, whoever can help my son with his little computer company in the garage is going to get an a plus or whatever the hell, you know? Uh, and so really it was a group think effort from MIT that propelled this figurehead to basically destroy that hacker ethos and destroy that spirit of the early internet that was, um, just so crucial. And I just wanted to point that out, but McAfee, I want to know your thoughts. I am curious. One of the thoughts I'm curious about is there's a premise that he might've created the virus itself, that there might not have been a need for McAfee software at all. I mean, we eventually arrived at viruses, but he did the problem reaction solution template and you know, he's a bit of a prankster. I wouldn't put it past him, but give me your general thoughts on McAfee. If you heard that interview, any thoughts that came up? Well, I'll talk about Gates first. I, I, you know, first of all, the most successful eugenicist family in history, I would say, I don't think he's a good man at all. Uh, and, uh, had I known the things that I know about him now back then, I probably would have gotten in more trouble because I would have been like trying to take down the death star, you know? Um, I think he's, he's scum really, uh, the, the things that he's done in this, in this world and yeah, I'd tell him to his face if I met him. Hope I never do. You don't want to go to jail again. Well, yeah, definitely not happening. I'm, I'm, I'm hacking reality now instead of computers. So yeah. What else? So McAfee, I, I actually learned a lot listening to that episode. I didn't know the details of his disappearance and death and I didn't realize he was in Barcelona at the time, but yeah, I kind of stepped away from, from tech for a lot of years. I, I actually ended up going to work at IBM in, in, uh, 2000, which is funny because I, I was hired as a tech writer and, uh, they didn't, I, I was an exchange student in Italy in 97, 98. And, uh, they, I moved back to Italy after I was done and ended up working for a year at IBM and they had no idea that I was a hacker and I didn't disclose. So, um, but yeah, I'm a, I'm a dinosaur when it comes to the tech I've left it all behind. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't get in trouble with it now. Yeah. I really wish that McAfee episode had made more of an impact, not even out of a, an ego reason or anything like that, but just her being so candid. Uh, I wanted more to happen for her because she really was trying to make the point that a lot of people gave up on the dead man switch because it's just probably too complex. And I think she was trying to say like, no, if you go back to his tweets at the time, which she was transcribing, there's a lot of breadcrumbs and clues and that the data is somehow attached or compartmentalized within the whacked token. I mean, the guy got a goddamn tattoo of it and on his arm, it was clearly important. And if you were trying to figure out how you would distribute blackmail material or a compromise folder, a dead man switch, it would have to be extremely decentralized and you wouldn't want to put anyone you knew at risk. So if you launched a cryptocurrency token and somehow in it was a countdown, people have acknowledged that there was a countdown countdown to what we don't know. Was it actually compromise? Some people think that the bad guys got in there and, and stopped it somehow, but Janice doesn't think so. She thinks that it's still available to those willing to not give up. And I mean, I wouldn't want to find it. You know what happens to those people. I don't want to get Aaron Schwartz, but apparently it's out there. She seemed pretty, uh, genuine and authentic. And she was very forthright in, in all of, all of, you know, the questions that you raised and, and she provided a lot of additional information. She didn't strike me as somebody that was trying to sidestep things. And she seemed genuinely, uh, interested in solving it and doesn't believe that he was killed. And, and, uh, you know, but she also didn't believe that he's still alive. I think that was an interesting point. Like his, he was a very unusual character. So his, his hubris being a little too, too big to, uh, to go all of these years without surfacing in some, some way that would give clues. So it seems like he's gone and hopefully there is a dead man switch. I that's, you know, the whole hackers from heaven idea for me is, uh, Robert Steele, I believe his name is, he was a former CIA agent. He's been here too. Oh yes. He once described, uh, computer hackers as the minute men of the digital era. And I thought that was a really good idea, you know, that, that when the totalitarian nightmare system is rolled out, like, how is that going to be stopped? And in the end, it's going to be your, you know, your weaponized autists or, you know, these people that are like super genius computer kinds of people that, that might be able to take it down, you know, it's the NEOs and the matrix sort of a thing. And, and so, you know, maybe there is hope even as, as the digital IDs and the, the, uh, agendas, this, that, and the other are, are rolled out, uh, seemingly without pause. Maybe, maybe in the end, uh, it would be some, you know, genius behind the keyboard that, that, uh, throws a monkey wrench in the, in the watch works. Yeah. I'm with you there. So another thing I wanted to ask you about related to the book is Gary McKinnon. So he wrote not only the forward somewhat of a forward, but also a nice blurb. I'll just read here. He says, whether you're a technophile or a truth seeker, or simply drawn to stories of defiance and redemption, Wilkerson's journey will leave a mark. It reminds us that sometimes the one society cast out as threats are in fact, the most necessary mirrors and it's most unlikely heroes. Kind words. I actually reached out to Gary, maybe five or six years ago and tried to get an interview with them. And he's like, I can't talk about any of that stuff anymore. And I know he had a CEO or, uh, uh, an SEO business. And if I would have been further down chain, I would have hired Gary McKinnon to do the SEO for the higher side chats because that would have just been so freaking cool. Uh, but I didn't have it at the time. Anyway, the reason I want to ask you about him is obviously because you're operating in a certain kind of mental paradigm about what reality is. And it's almost in conflict with what he says he saw on those computers. Of course, it's secret space program stuff, non-terrestrial astronauts, space platforms, UFOs, alternative energy. I hesitate to get too specific because I tried to do a little digging before this ran out of time. I don't know exactly what he said versus what others have kind of extrapolated and added on to that. But I do believe non-terrestrial astronauts, a list of them was real. And I think during the disclosure project, if I remember his quote, he did say that he had confirmation of the things he was curious about, UFOs and alternative energy, but how does this jive with where you are in your model of reality? Do you think about it at all? I think you trust Gary and what he saw. Yeah. I, I believe that he, you know, is telling the truth about what he saw. Um, and I, and I don't necessarily think that his, his observations are in conflict with my, my worldview. I mean, we talk about extraterrestrials. Well, if there are outer realms, that's extraterrestrial, right? So, uh, I, I think that the different aliens, you know, all the, the UFO people, the, the ancient aliens and all that kind of stuff and the, the grays and the tall, thin ones and all, all these different species that they're constantly talking about, I, I have no problem with those, those beings actually existing. They could exist within a hollow earth. They could exist underwater. Non-terrestrial could be in the water, right? So there's all kinds of, uh, things that you don't have to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to that kind of stuff. But, uh, there are a lot of problems that I have with the heliocentric model and, and the spinning ball when it comes to the things that Gary was seeing. He, he saw photographs that took him forever to download because the file sizes were so large, uh, of what appeared to be craft. I have no problem with. Have you seen those alien craft? No, I've never seen them. I don't know if he still has them. Probably not. Um, but the, um, you know, when we look at, I mean, Ben has covered this, uh, analog has covered this extensively, like the dirigibles and all the, the, the aircraft and, you know, clearly, uh, all kinds of technologies have been hidden and sequestered and some are trickled out to us as new innovation, but are actually just recycling of, of old stuff that you can see pictures of in, you know, the, the new, the, the publications from a hundred years ago. So, um, I, you know, when it comes to aliens flying around in the sky or anti-gravity devices and all that, you don't have to have a heliocentric model to, to still be able to accommodate for those things. To me, it was the thing that always stuck out was space platform. And I don't know that he ever said that, but it is the thing that stuck in my brain when I think about the story. But what do you think of the ISS? Do you think that's real? No, no. I've, I've seen no evidence that it's real. There's so much fakery, uh, harness fails, bubbles in space, CGI layering glitches, hairspray, you, you name it. There's no footage of the greatest construction in history being constructed. You know, it's, it's just in this magic Goldilocks zone. It's based on Einsteinian gravity, which I also don't believe in. I'll recommend too. Well, you had Mark Gober on. He, he, he's, uh, and Eric Dubé and Eric Dubé. And, uh, I would recommend you get Steven Young on. He's an amazing author. Australian guy. No, no, he's a Scottish and he's written a book called a fool's wisdom. He's a former, well, not former. He has a PhD in nuclear physics and quantum physics and has basically jumped ship with all of those theories because he's come to the conclusion that they're all based on pseudoscience, which I'm in agreement with. And so is Mark Gober. So, um, as far as the ISS goes, it, you know, there's, and, and whenever they show the supposed live feed, there's always too much curvature based on their distance. So they're clearly using a fisheye lens. So it could just be a high flying military craft, um, you know, and, and Google earth, they're just taking strips and stitching them together and they can easily map that around a ball. Well, you know, I've obviously thought about a lot of this stuff too. And the ISS is the one kind of sticking point that I can't really get around. I mean, I'm good friends with someone who goes by robot polisher online. His name is not known, but I'm the one who told him about the flat earth and he just went off the fricking rails making this content. He's great. He, he doesn't even talk, you know, he does not talk. He just uses their clips and puts them together and is like, does this look legit to you? And again, all that stuff you're talking about, the hair sprayed hair and the bubbles, the suggestions that it seems like a lot of that's filmed underwater, but there is a thing, there is a dot in the sky that goes around. They say is the ISS and you can see it and you can geolocate it. And that's one thing, but here's the thing that's crazy to me. I guess my belief is like, so what happens up there? Is there a point where things do float? Because my wife and I were sitting out here outside in Florida and we saw this crazy, it looked like a dragon of dots through the sky. And we're like, what the hell is that? And then it's like, of course, well, that's supposed to be Starlink. Well, what is Starlink? Because I saw it, like one dot is, one dot looks like a star. So the ISS, you're like, well, I don't know what that is. Maybe that's not technological, but to see Starlink up there and to have previously doubted satellites at all. And you get into the temperatures that are supposed to exist up there and all this stuff should burn up and not work. What the hell? How could it work? We could literally talk hours about this subject. You know, if you think of the ISS, the size of the ISS is said to be roughly a football field, right? So if you think about how big is Boeing 747, that's roughly the same size, right? Well, at 35,000 feet cruising altitude, it's pretty tiny. If you double the distance to an object, it's one quarter the size. It works with light as well. It's the inverse square law of light. Like every time you double the distance, it's going to be one quarter the intensity. If you halve the distance, it's four times as intense. Well, the optics work the same way, right? So it should not be visible at 253 miles or whatever they say they're hovering at. Because at 35,000 feet, how far is that? How many miles is that? I don't know. But it's not very many miles, right? So you double that, you double that again, you double that again. There's no, there's no reason that we should be able to see something the size of a football field at that distance, unless you have powerful optics. Right. It is actually 6.6 miles at 35,000 feet. So double that 12, double that 24, double that 48. That's a lot of doubling, right? And that means it's got to be one quarter the size each time you double it. And if I were to just quickly look at how high up is Starlink, that's a little bit harder. I'm not sure about Starlink, but the ISS is something like 250 miles. Oh, it's actually says the operational range for Starlink satellites is between 340 to 600 kilometers or 211 to 382 miles. So it's supposed to be like roughly 300 miles up compared to six miles up. But I saw it and these are supposed to be smaller. No. So now that's weird. The ISS is supposed to be six. I could bring up so many weird things. Right. The, I can't do that hand sign. People are going to get me, uh, too late. Yeah, I know. Um, six miles up for the ISS and then 300 miles up for Starlink. Starlink is a much smaller set of satellites. I'm just like, I know what I saw in the sky and I just want to know how they did it. I'm not saying it's the conclusive smoking gun that heliocentrism is real, but I'm curious in this alternative paradigm, how they did it, how, how it could exist because it looked very strange. Anyone who's seen Starlink would probably say it looks like a serpent of lights going through the sky. No footage of, of, uh, ISS construction, no telemetry data, 14,000 reels gone missing. I'd like to do a shout, a shout out to my best friend, uh, Alex Michael. Are you familiar with conspiracy music guru? No, no conspiracy music guru. I feel like this is something music guru. I feel like he has come, uh, he has been presented to me or recommended to me before, but I haven't really gone. He is the conspiracy music guru. You can play any, any style of music. And he's just like, he's got, I told you so television watching news believer. He's got a whole album about, about, uh, NASA fakery and, uh, it's all the, the lyrics are amazing. And the, the quality of the production he is, you should have him on. He would be an awesome guy to interview. You would have a lot of fun. Okay. Well, you gave me a couple of recommendations. I only do five shows a month. You just build almost a month for me. Um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind talking to Ken too, if he's still around and I know he's still around. Kenneth wooden. Yeah. Uh, he passed away a few years ago, unfortunately he lived to, he lived to his eighties. He sent me a photograph when he turned 80, he went skydiving at 80 years old. He was, he was a cool guy, but I did get an interview. I got to interview him and I haven't released it yet on my channel. So I have an hour of footage, uh, talking with him at some point. I'll, I'll put that out. Oh, and you mentioned Gary McKinnon. Uh, did, did you hear how that came about? No, he posted a comment on one of my YouTube videos. And I didn't know if he knew about my hacking past or if he was there for the research. And it turned out he didn't know anything about my hacking. Wow. And, uh, so I sent him a little three minute promo video. I don't know. Maybe you could play that at the end for people who are interested in the book. And I was like, Hey, by the way, did you know about this? And he's like, no, we should talk. Yeah. We ended up having a conversation. We had a zoom call to actually, and talk for about four or five hours. And, uh, at the very beginning of the first call, I was like, you know, this is going to be an interesting conversation. I'm sure I'll bet there's a lot of people that would love to hear this. Should we just record it? He's like, yeah, go ahead. You know? So, so I put, I put the first hour of that conversation up on my, on my channel and it's called hackers from heaven. Like I said, two or maybe three lives all within one man, all more interesting than my own. Amazing. I, I, well, I will be the first, obviously we're going close to three hours, but I'll be the first to humble up and apologize for my initial dismissal of the work and your channel. Uh, something definitely is going on with all that, but I'm still not sure what to do with it, but I'm sure you plan to keep pushing on this. What are the next steps or our next parts of this ongoing investigation that you think you're going to pursue? The, I, I, I know a couple, uh, I, I, you mentioned Jerry Pollack. I was actually at the water conference, um, and, and got to meet him. Uh, and again, I met him at, at confluence where he spoke and unfortunately he's, he's, uh, fallen ill. I think he's, um, like not doing well. So a lot of, a lot of people are praying for him. So I did not know this. I just know that you told me he would give me an interview on December 6th and maybe I should assume that that might not happen. There's, there's a good chance it might not. I'm not, I, I have, um, a friend who's close with him and I can ask her and mention that you had something scheduled, but I have a feeling that not might not happen. I mean, I don't care about my own interview. I obviously care about his health, but like how interesting that a guy would fall ill, a guy of his, of his stature right when he has a book coming out about anti-gravity and how it could all work. I mean, he's applied his knowledge, his scientific brain. He's gone from the fourth phase of water to now a book about anti-gravity. And then he suddenly falls ill. I mean, people can get ill, but like this pattern keeps repeating, Mike, he was really interesting person to talk with. I got to sit down with him a couple of times, but there were a bunch of really high level scientists that were there. And a couple of them have laboratories. So unlike the runaround I got from the clowns, uh, in the U S that we've mentioned before, these guys are the real deal. So my hope is to, um, do some spectroscopy with these stones and, uh, maybe some other things that I'm not aware of that could be done to, to try and, uh, nail down better what the constituent components are, because obviously if the periodic table is, is up for grabs, uh, then it makes it a little trickier. But if, uh, if there's a way to, to show that there's a correlation between fleshy hearts and the stones accounting for transmutation of elements, I'm not sure how to go about that, but it's, it's tough, you know, unless I can like figure out how to recreate them or, uh, something like that. It's, it's hard to know other than what I've already been doing, which is showing a very repeatable pattern that's highly specific. Uh, and they also look like hearts. Oh, I forgot to mention that, um, this guy who was the right hand man of, um, Gwasp that, uh, that facilitated his first dissection. Oh no, I did. I did mention he, I had a video call with him and I showed him, I showed him these, these stones and he was, he was blown away. And it's like, this is an amazing discovery. Congratulations. And so he's not a geologist, but he does happen to know a lot more about the heart than probably just about anybody out there. So that's an interesting thing. Yeah. So I, uh, just happened to go and look at my last email with, with Gerald Pollack and he gave me a link to the book to read, you know, for free before we did an interview and the link is now defunct. I think the book is out there though. The book is supposed to have come out in September. So I don't know if it is, if it is out there guys, buy the book, support Gerald Pollack. I mean, especially in this, this tough time that he's apparently having. Well, a lot of this stuff about the heart and the circulatory system and I, you know, this, the, the discoveries of Gwasp, they also tie in with the fourth, fourth phase of water because the blood is not being pushed through the, the circulatory system. It's being propelled you could say, and, uh, maybe functions more like a Ram pump in the sense that the heart is actually like the metronome of the body where it's, it's literally stopping blood flow, not creating it. It's a, it's a very far out subject and, uh, it changes our, well, the, the, the heart has the biggest electromagnetic field in the body far greater than the brain and it extends beyond the body and it's measurable. So, you know, we're, we're, we're talking about, uh, arc reactors inside of each and every one of us, right? Like iron man's the it's, it's truth in plain sight. They don't want us to know that we're all, we're all iron men and women. Just like, uh, the tesseract and the black cube and like, why are two of the biggest franchises Avengers and transformers all center around the black cube, a cosmic space cube AI thing. Well, and all, all this stuff from Ben radium, you know, videos and, and so everything that's like green, like kryptonite and all these things like the, you know, the, uh, I don't know the super, it's always green glowing. Sure. Sure. It is kryptonite. Wow. Well we, we could do this all day, man. And I just wanted to throw out charged Gerald Pollack's book. Obviously, like you said, electromagnetism, it all has to do with electromagnetism. His book is called charge the unexpected role of electricity and the workings of nature. Ding, ding, ding. He's right on it as he always has been. And stellium seven is your channel. What's stellium? It's an astrological term. I grew up, my mom was an astrologer when I was growing up. And so I, I grew up with astrology and studied it a lot myself. And anytime you have three or more planets in a particular sign or a particular house, it's called the stellium and it represents like a concentration of, of particular energies in, you know, focusing on one particular thing. And I have a, a five planet stellium in the seventh house. So, um, I, I, yeah, that's, that's where it came from. What is the seventh house known for? It's all about relationships. It's ruled by Libra and, uh, you know, yeah. Relationship would be the big, the big thing. So I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the relationships between things, right? Yes. Yes. Pattern recognitionist. I love it. Well, this has been a real pleasure. I mean, thanks for giving me an extra hour of your time. Just crazy. Anything, uh, anything else to leave people with? Uh, I don't know. Get the book stellium sevens, the YouTube channel. Yeah. The hacker prints. It is a fun read. Uh, it is a page turner. I've had at least half a dozen different published authors who've read it, who've praised the writing style. And, uh, you know, it's very engaging. I've been told by a number of people that it reads like a movie. It's called the hacker prince, a true story because all the stuff that's in it actually happened. And, and, uh, it, it's one of those truth is stranger than fiction kind of things. It's great for the 50 something year olds that are technophiles that, you know, have the nostalgia from that time period, but a teenager would, would love it as well. So, uh, I think everybody in between. Heck yeah. And, uh, and check out the channel. And if you do go and sub, please comment. It's been algorithms like a lot of other channels and, uh, it's fun when there's engagement. Yes. Uh, I know about that stuff. So very cool. Yeah. It was a real pleasure. Thank you for taking the time and take care out there. Keep doing this awesome work, man. I'm changed. I don't know how I'm going to go back to regular life. Now I'm broken. It's an honor to be invited and I've been listening to you off and on for years. So it's, uh, it's fun to talk with you face to face. Right on. I agree. Cheers, man. Ooh, Lordy. All right. Well, that was a mean one, Mr. Grinch. We did it. The long awaited exploration of biogeology with the hacker prince himself, Mike's delenium seven Wilkerson, probably one of the most requested guests. I think that I've gotten in the last year or so and I think I also did a pretty good job explaining why I didn't try to make it happen sooner. I also wanted to get into that stuff right out of the gate for other people who might've had similar skepticisms because when you hear Mike separate himself from those other folks, like maybe the mud fossil folks, it just got me all that much more interested. I started to lean in more because he understands the skepticism and what a more appropriate framing for this stuff is. He just got a really great way in general of approaching this very bizarre material. I think I was just afraid to appear gullible or unserious, but whatever. You don't need to make it your new religion just to say, damn, there does seem to be something interesting here and I don't know what the implications really are and I don't want to deal with it. I'm just accepting the material for what it is. And I also just wanted to reemphasize the original spirit of why I got into this stuff, which was more like, hey, here's a person with some very out there perspectives. Let's see how good an argument they make and try to understand why they think what they think. The old quote, you know, it's the mark of a educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Something like that. We just want to get inside the head of the guests and get into their ideas and let the listeners decide where the value is. I don't necessarily want to be the arbiter of what ideas are worthwhile and which ones aren't any more than just through the guest selection itself. So my first priority is getting back to just presenting interesting, bizarre, unique worldviews and research and not so much trying to say, hey, here are the exact answers in the back of the book of life. And of course, for something to be compelling, it has to have some believability to it or then it is just a waste of time. So obviously that is a factor. And after really exploring the stuff Mike does with an open mind, obviously it turned into something. And I just hope it is refreshing to see Mike here for those who follow us separately. And I hope it's intellectually stimulating to those who either ignored this stuff before or have just now come across it. Maybe we all start finding heartstones on our paths. So yeah, structurally, we did actually get almost an extra 40 minutes with Mike. The first hour is largely an introduction to biogeology and me trying to make sure we fit in the best arguments that resonated with me as I went along with the material. And then the plus show is largely a walkthrough of Mike's latest presentations. So it was a little redundant, but he's got his pitch down and he got all the best clips and put together everything. So I just went with it. If you want to get a taste of that and you aren't a plus member, or you only have the audio, then just go to his YouTube channel. It is basically his anarcho poco adjacent conference presentation. And you can see it right there. And as we're going forward, I don't love having to be so conscious of the audio video split. I got a free plus split and now an audio video split, but what can I do? I guess I could have split the difference and made plus $10 and given everybody everything just to simplify it. I guess some episodes are just going to have to be more visual heavy and it is what it is. I find that people kind of have their own content preferences, whether it's a podcast app or a preference for watching. So the thought was, again, I've already talked about this, but people don't want to pay for what they don't need, but make it available for people who want it in a way that can still be independent of YouTube and all that, and still provide video. A plus show like this one makes me kind of second guess that decision to separate things and, you know, makes me wonder if that was best, but with the video storage and streaming bandwidth costs, it just has to be more than something that was folded into the $8 membership. Just the reality. I don't know. I'm always exploring options and I'm open to new ways of doing things, but for now, this was the best I could do coming out of the gate. I didn't expect the studio thing to go south so fast either, but here we are. The audience really is just too big to truly get an opinion from everyone. So I just try to do my best. And at the end of the day, this was a good interview where we structured the material well, in a way that was clear and methodical. And that's all there is to it. I guess the rest is a little less important. The hacker print stuff. I tried to fold into the free show too, as you know, it is a product that he worked hard on and has put out there while the rest of the material is free. So, you know, we do the promo thing and there are really some wild stories in that book, I will say. We didn't talk about all of them, of course, but one that sticks out to me is when he was a teenager, Mike accepted a flight out to see this other guy who was big in the hacker scene. And later on, Mike found out that that guy had a reputation of flying out other hackers and not flying them home until they gave in to his advances. And Mike said the guy was pretty responsive to his no, but that's obviously a precarious situation to be in. Mike's a calm man who has lived a wild life. The other thing that sticks out with this one is that geologist clip talking about the sediment from the volcanic eruption. And that's just something that stuck out to me because you have these geologists learning in school that these layers of rock are developed over millions of years and they sort of have to operate as if that's true. It's really hard to contradict that and they have no reason to. But then if you have a volcanic eruption and you can study it in real time, then this guy is like, wow, this actually can happen very rapidly. This is pretty earth shattering for our geological assumptions. That's just the sort of thing we should all pay attention to. I don't ever want to completely disrespect the years of study that people put into their areas of interest or blame them for assuming what their teachers taught is true. But it's moments like that clip where you just feel like that guy spent a lot of time building his knowledge up on an incorrect foundation. Just kind of sad because life is so short. Not that all my time is well spent, but this is just the kind of thing that we have talked about quite a bit. A person goes deep into debt to become an expert in a field, their expertise and understanding of said field and the sacred facts gets them a position in that field for a career, their income and ability to pay the debt largely becomes dependent on their participation in the perpetuation of the field status quo. Huh. It's a frustrating pattern, but luckily we find a lot of great people who have found ways to follow what they consider to be the truth, even when it conflicts with that pattern. That's a beautiful thing. It's kind of a catch 22 because when someone studies a field without that training, then they're considered easier to dismiss because they don't have it. But sometimes that's what we need. Mike is capable of reading the same books outside the confines of a classroom. He's capable of educating himself on the same material independently without paying the money or being scheduled to do that Tuesdays at 1 p.m. You know, a lot of things aren't as overwhelming and complex as you might think. It's just tough to find the time to dive in and understand them. If you do that, then, you know, a self-directed education is not much different than an official one. Although they would obviously argue with that, but that's how they make their money. Oh, and Mike did send me the lab reports that we talked about. It's posted in the show notes. He mentioned the just one-sided nature of it. The whole tone is off. They definitely weren't coming in with an open mind. And he mentions the company logo, which is kind of an eye in the pyramid and their PO box number 322. With a debunking like this, those things do stick out to me as well. No coincidences, as they say. Mike also added for me and also anyone interested in going deeper on this part of it, that if you don't want to watch the whole three hours of Paradigm Crushed, that video he made, definitely check out the last half hour where it covers Aeon's connection to the Explorers Club, because that is very interesting, he says. I also got to add that sadly, he was very right about Dr. Gerald Pollack. I'm not sure where that conversation landed, but he mentioned that Dr. Pollack had had a very serious health incident, and I've learned a bit more since then, and that sadly seems to be very true. My interview isn't going to happen, and the prospect of rescheduling it is also not going to happen anytime soon. Send him your thoughts and prayers, at least energetically, because I have not seen any public comment or notice about this, and maybe they don't want it to be all that known just yet, but it is a thing, sadly, and you can still think about the guy and hope for the best. Another person who turned their research towards alternative energy and anti-gravity, and then suffered a debilitating health consequence. In this case, within 30 days of his book's release. Now, Dr. Gerald Pollack is not exactly a young man, but that's always going to make me wonder. That is a pattern we've seen before, and maybe I will try to tackle that book as another solo show, so watch out for that in the next couple weeks. Become a Plus member if you want the second hour of all my interviews and these solo presentations that I'm starting to do more of. They're fun. Thehiresidechats.com links in the show notes. Seven-day free trial to start you off. It's the only income the show receives. Ad-free and action-packed. Okay. So I am happy to have gotten this one out to you guys. I think it's far more exciting than the last one, but everyone has their own flavor of the conspiracy Kool-Aid that they like best. I just try to bring them all out to you often enough to keep everybody interested. But on that note, the last episode with Etienne de la Boetti squared was pretty mixed. I think this one will be mixed too, but with that one, you have comments ranging from, quote, this was the worst guest that has appeared on the program in a long time to another direct quote. Like another listener said, we need six stars for this one. What am I supposed to do with you people? But I like the range though. It can be confusing to me sometimes when I put on the producer hat, which is why that rating works best. The aggregate thoughts and opinions boil down to a single number. And for the Etienne show, that number is a 3.9. Not my favorite, not my favorite, but I can appreciate that. He came well prepared to make his points in a multimedia presentation and it's generated almost a hundred comments so far. And I appreciate that Etienne is in there talking to plus people too. That's going the extra mile. More guests have been doing that lately. And that's just a great thing to see. I think really the general audience here just likes us to be a bit more esoteric and out there, right? So that is what it is. And as for the meetup calendar, the other thing we do in these here wrap ups, let's see where two or three or more hopefully are gathering in my name. December 13th, LA at the trails cafe, December 13th, also London at the rising sun and also December 13th, stroke on Trent, United Kingdom, the U tree and two United Kingdom meetups on the same day. Be there or be somewhere else. January 3rd, Gilbert, Arizona at Desert Monks Brewing. January 10th, Raleigh, North Carolina, the Raleigh Brewing Company. And January 16th, Michigan City, Indiana at the Burn Elm Brewing Brew House. Good stuff. I like to see the calendar used go forth and meet each other. Make an event. If you're curious as to how it would go, no risk, maybe all reward. So that is the show. Get a lot more as a plus member at the higher side chats.com. Check out the merch at the higher side clothing.com and let our guests know you had a good time. If you did, I've done my part. Your move, official truth deciders, heartstone hiders, and biogeology deniers. Your fucking move. I see your face in traffic. And you look so stuck. No sense of adventure. Just a routine fuck. They can diagnose depression, but don't know why you're bored. Mystery comes knocking, but you don't answer the door. No, there are lights in the sky, not found on any map. Creatures deep in the forest that no ranger has tagged. There are things in the ocean you won't see from the land. Life's under no obligation to make sure you understand. I'm told the truth is out there. When you get past the lies, it comes when you least expect it. And it wears a disguise. It'll tell you everything. Can't take any pictures. Won't have to watch you live like you never wanted it. A lost soul that's forgotten what really haunted is. You didn't ask, but just let me say this is a horrible approach to seizing the day. There are things you can know that you can't even think. No doctor has medicine like the shaman's next drink. Sleep is promise you anything as it seems. I'm told the truth is out there. When you get it comes when you least expect it. And it wears a disguise. It'll tell you just can't take any pictures.