Mystery Solved! AMA 2025

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Patrons had submitted questions over the prior month and we were able to get to pretty much all of them. We've lightly edited the live version of that for length and content, but it's mostly intact. This is a very candid, unstructured conversation and it covers a lot of ground. But first, some unusually important lead-in information. Don't skip it. Welcome back to Astonishing Legends. I'm Forrest Burgess and this is Scott Philbrook. There's a lot and not enough going on regarding Amelia Earhart. We still believe that Bill Snavely has a very, very good chance of possibly having found her plane. And there are folks working behind the scenes to fund an expedition to that and working very hard to try to get more people involved who have deep pockets to go out there and answer the question once and for all. Join us tonight for Mystery Solved, The Astonishing Legends 2025 AMA. And we're back, sort of. And that we are, folks. It's good to be back, sort of. Oh, well, we should probably elaborate on that. I'll take the lead here. However, while we did lighten our main show schedule a little this summer to recharge some and gear up for the end of the year, that lighter schedule has gone on a little longer and been more extensive than we planned. Yes, it has. It turns out that life has a way of sometimes redirecting your energy. And in the past month or so, that has never been more evident for both me and Scott or Scott and I. And it reminds me of that phrase, life is what happens when you're busy making other plans, which, if you look at the AI overview, apparently, of course, like we find out with all quotes, is widely attributed to John Lennon, though its earliest known use was by American writer Alan Saunders in 1957. So there you go. There you go. We learned something new already. Well, to get to the bottom of this, why things have been the way they have been with the show as of late, there's no fun way to say this, but my mother is currently in the hospital with a significant injury related to her advancing years, and that is coupled with significant cognitive decline. The situation is touch and go and requires a great deal of my attention, both practically and emotionally. The outlook is not great, and there are a lot of things to take care of to keep her comfortable. And as the only child of a single mom who made me who I am, that is my number one focus at the moment. Oh, yeah. I am so sorry to hear that, but I know exactly what you're going through. And on that note, I think maybe you should tell listeners what's up with you at the moment. Yeah, which is why, again, I know pretty much what you're going through. My dad was also just in the hospital for 10 days and then now at a PT and OT facility rehabilitation for currently twice that amount of time and counting. So, yeah, he's been in there at least 20 days now and counting. So, and yeah, I know it sounds like a coincidence with your sitch, but I don't believe in coincidences. And I don't know what that means, but I just don't think that something's happening here. Yeah, and it's important for us to respect our parents' privacy, but we know a lot of you have been wondering where the new shows are aside from the dead letter office, which that one is easier for us to keep up and running. Although we did have to even pause that for the first time, I think, in 36 weeks, a week or so ago. But now you know what's going on. We're people. We're not AI making this show. We do have things going on outside of Astonishing Legends. It's a bit uncanny that we are experiencing something pretty similar at nearly the exact same time, but the bottom line for both me and Forrest is family first. Indeed it is. And yeah, it feels like we're being tested. We're being thrown challenges. But that said, we were always planning to share this AMA, or as I like to say it, AMAA, almost anything. There's just some things in light of you saying that we do like to keep some things private, as I believe that should be. We had always planned on sharing this AMA from Patreon with all of you. So this was coming anyway, but it's being posted this week because Scott and I both could use a little bit of breathing room. Yes. And thank you very, very much for supporting us and being patient as we do our best to keep Astonishing Legends on the tracks. Yes. Well, in other news, I do have an exciting announcement to make. Our dear friend, Rich Haddam of Richard Haddam's Paranormal Bookshelf, has been doing a series of live appearances across the country, and he has one scheduled in Washington, D.C. on September 22nd. And I can't wait to go. There's going to be a special mystery guest, apparently. You know, Scott, you are the mystery guest. Oh, wait. Yes. So it is. So it is me. Well, the black cat is out of the black bag now, folks. Turns out I'm the mystery guest for an evening of ghosts, poltergeists, and maybe even a few laughs at Richard's expense, or more likely mine. I hope to see you there at Kramer's Bookstore in DuPont Circle in Washington, D.C. Oh, man, do I wish I could be there for this. Just a heckle. That'd be great. Just, I wouldn't even be on stage. I would just be in the audience heckling both of you because I know exactly what buttons to push. Well, folks, for details on this event or any of the other stops in Rich's Light in the Dark Tour, go to richardhadamsparanormalbookshelf.com and click on events. And there you can see all of the information and even click on links that will take you to Eventbrite to buy tickets. But move fast. These are smaller venues, and they will fill up quickly. And isn't he about to do the legendary Mothman Festival? Yes, that's going to be right before the D.C. thing that I'm going to. That's going to be an astonishing legend in itself. He's never been, so that's really cool. He's very excited about it. And the shirt that he and Tommy Beaver, our network graphic designer, who is also a professional for hire graphic designer, by the way, made for that what might be one of my favorite bits of merch ever from the astonishing merch universe. I don't want to give it away, but I will say that there's chapstick involved. It's pretty cool. I hope in all the normal ways. Well, that is saying something, though, really. No, Tommy and Rich and you, sir, are so very talented. But Tommy is a whiz. And, yeah, it's just terrific. All of his designs. We've had so many people asking about them. Like, who did this? Who is that guy? Can I hire him? Well, you can. All right, folks. Well, we're about to run this AMA. And, again, remember, these are a little more candid and informal than our regular show. Not that you care about us. But if you do, or just our thoughts on more things behind the scenes, sort of, it's chock full of all that kind of knowledge. Everything we think about behind the scenes, our personal thoughts and motivations, blah, blah, blah. Yes. But there you go. Some inside baseball. There you go, as you like to say. Yes. We did this for our Patreon not too long ago. And on that note, if you haven't joined our Patreon, it's a great time to start thinking about it. The spooky season is upon us. And we're actually rolling out some revisions to our membership tiers there, as well as some other bonuses. And we've just launched a private live chat there, too, that I'm personally checking out on the regular and participating in. And supposedly, Forrest will be in there from time to time, too. Right, Forrest? Yeah, I'll try and make it when we can, you know, when we're not tending to care duties. Well, you know, anyway, it's a great place to get more of us and Astonishing Legends. So just check out patreon.com slash Astonishing Legends to learn more. All right. Enough pre-yacking. When you get to the main yakking. Anyway, Sarah, please, let's roll that AMA and get down to the regular yakking. Hey, everybody. It's Scott. I'd like to welcome everyone to the first Astonishing Legends AMA. Ask me anything, or as Forrest might say, AMAA, ask me almost anything. I'm going to bring Forrest on stage now. You folks know him from such shows as Astonishing Legends and The Dead Letter Office. Forrest, welcome. How's it going, man? Hello, everybody. And hello, Scott. And you know what? I think we did one of these before, years ago, once on your porch. Yes. Once in your living room for the, was it the Astonishing TV? Oh, right, right, right, right. Which is permanently stuck in our YouTube with, you know, and the keyframe is always a really embarrassing, you know, stuck shot, which we haven't corrected. I hope everybody's doing good. It's been a very hot summer here in North Carolina. Hey-o! Now there's now... Okay, people are... There we go. Hey, Bree. All right, folks. That's good. I'm glad to see the comments. Of course, you should be able to see those in the comments panel on stream. I do see them, yes. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. So, again, thanks to everyone for checking in. We've been very busy, as you probably know, with the Dead Letter office and the Astonishing Legends and the network stuff. Everybody, of course, those guys, you know, do all the work on their own shows. But Ed was actually going to be here as the mechanic to help us direct. But he is currently slinging hash in a dumpling booth at a music festival because... That's not his day job. No, but, you know, kind of it is actually right now. Well, yeah. It turns out podcasting doesn't pay that well these days. So, he's supplementing his income. This is something he does every year, though, with, you know, it's somebody connected to his family back east. So, but he's working like 14-hour shifts, right? He texted me today and he's like, I'm sorry, I can't be there. He sent me some pictures. He's working very, very hard. He's got quite a work ethic. So, he's not here right now, but he is here in spirit and Rich and Miranda are putting out new shows. So, all that stuff is rocking and rolling. I wanted to remind folks that we did mention, although I don't think anybody took us up on it, we did mention that you could come on the air with us if you wanted to, but people seem to be kind of nervous about it. Well, on the air, but they can certainly, you know, message us a question. We've done that quite a bit during our junk drawers and we really appreciate it. And then sometimes we feel bad because we can't keep up with all the comments and questions, but we love hearing from the audience. I guess what we're going to do, we got a lot of questions, so we're going to kind of dive right in. We got about two hours to do this tonight before we both have other commitments, but I wanted to say, you know, we got over 60, almost 70 questions. And so, hello, Kish. So, what I wanted to say was that we tried to pick ones. We wanted to make sure that everybody hopefully got at least one in. Hopefully, we didn't make a mistake there. So, we'll be asking and answering as many as we can get to. We sort of cherry picked enough and I was doing the math. I was like, well, and I was texting for us before we went on here. I was like, if we spent five minutes on each one of all of these questions, it would be four or five hours. I was like, okay, wait, we can't quite do that. So, we picked some out. We're going to go through them. And if it winds up going faster than we thought, we'll go back on to some of the ones that we didn't necessarily earmark for the first round. And these are going to be asked and answered in the order which they were submitted to the original post I made a month ago on Patreon. So, and also, that's the other thing I want to say. Thank you so much, patrons, for being such great supporters of the show. It is a significant part of the show's income. It's very much required to keep us alive and we really, really appreciate it. So, we just want to thank you for doing that. It means a lot to us and that's why we're trying to get more content up there and more content like this. Tess was like, well, yeah, people like commercial free, but they want to talk to you guys. So, she was like, you need to get in there and mix it up a little, which is part of the reason we're doing this. So, yes, ma'am. Tess is the boss on that stuff. So, all right, Forrest, I'm going to hit our, also speaking of Tess, the spreadsheet that she made for us with our questions and I'm going to start out here at the top. Now, please forgive me, as you know, how we are, anyone that's listened to us. If me or Forrest messes up anybody's name, it's probably going to be me doing the name, so it's just going to be me. But if we mess up your name or don't get your first name or whatever, because what we have is your Patreon handles and most people have, you have different things. Sometimes you just have your first name, et cetera, et cetera. But this one comes from our Wix. Now, I don't know if you're with us right now. If you are, you can drop us a comment. And this is a fun one to start out with. This is just kind of like, hi, Jennifer. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you. This one is out of left field. We're just going to start out of the left field because I have something to say about this. But here's the question. Do either of you foresee individuals on their deathbeds freeing their optimist Tesla bots of human ownership or... Servitude and the ensuing confusion it will cause, which I thought, you know, I never thought about that with these bots and all these androids that are supposedly coming out, which is, you know, it's the kind of thing that maybe our children might actually have some kind of thing like that. What happened? Because, you know, Forrest, you and I have talked about on the show before, like what happens to your Facebook page, which I think they have a plan now. They have a thing that you can do for what happens if I pass away, what happens to my Facebook page of a social profile and all of that. And I think everybody probably knows somebody who's passed and their social media is still up or you see like Twitter handles or, you know, X or whatever. And but I do think that question, even though it's, you know, it's a little bit silly, it's a little bit fun, too. But it's like, what happens? Yeah, if it's... I don't know, Forrest, have you been watching... You probably haven't watched anything new lately because I know you've been so busy. But like, have you seen Murderbot? Have you seen that show? I've seen the ads for it, but I have not seen it. But you're right. There is a Facebook. I did this a few years ago, actually. It's been around for many years now. But you can, yeah, you can give ownership to people. And it's kind of a bittersweet thing, too, when you see a friend request from somebody you know who's passed. And then the thing that's infuriating to me is seeing people hijack those and pretend to be people that you know have passed and, you know, for monetary gain, trying to rob you. So, but yeah, there's, as far as, I think you're my guy, if I... Yeah, okay. You're the only person that would trust to... Did you tell me that? Because I forgot already. Yeah, to do that. But in connection to that, there is the phenomenon of people receiving messages from those that have passed. And so you talked about that a little bit. I'm not really sure. You're going to... I'm not really sure what the phrase... Optimist Tesla mutts. Well, you know, because Tesla is making, supposedly, these bots that walk around in, you know, C-3PO type situation, or, you know, more looking like, and I think they actually sued the art directors from... Oh, Optimist Prime. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Optimist Prime, whatever. From Transformers. I think it's called the Optimist. I think it's something like that. Yeah. But they're, if those come out, I mean, who knows? With him, you never know if anything's going to actually... He's been working on this two-seater sports car for 10 years that was supposed to go 0-60 in one second, and that keeps not happening. But yeah, if those come out, whether it's Tesla or some other company, there is this idea that, like, if, you know, somebody has passed, you go over to the house, and there's, like, a humanoid bot in there who's, like, confused about what to do next, and where to go, and who does it belong to, and what kind of personal data does it have, too? That's the other thing, which is pretty much all of your personal data, I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not really worried about that personally right now. More concerned about the test that, you know, Scott and I talked about, and of course, it's making the news rounds, that there was a, I think, somewhat of a closed-loop experiment done with AI, some chatbots who determined that they wanted to keep going and did not want any humans to unplug them. So they started rewriting their own code and finding stuff in the internet to blackmail their programmers. Oh, right. Then they had to unplug it, and that kind of stuff is, that's a little scary, because, you know, it only knows the morals that you, and ethics that you teach it, and even then, it doesn't have to follow those rules. It can, and even if it, like, Scott, even if Scott doesn't believe it's sentient, that's enough trouble. I don't. Yeah, even though we did an episode on that early on, now that I've worked with it a little, I can see, I can see the math that's happening. Like, the problem, it's that it's language, probability, math. It doesn't, it doesn't strike me as truly, but that's, that's the, actually the bigger question for me. It's actually a little weirder for me, because what does that say about what our sentience is? Because I'm starting to think, oh, well, this sentience is, this is just like, what is the most likely word that's going to follow the prior word? And then it goes to a larger set of thoughts and sentences and things like that. And, and I, yeah, I no longer think that, you know, even though it's, it says crazy stuff when you're working with it, but. Yeah. Just quickly, I'll, I'll, I'll tackle two of the, just very quickly. It's my tremendous effort here to be concise and brief. So two other questions by our wicks is actually, it's a very fascinating thing. He says in your research, have you ever come across ghost aliens slash Bigfoot stories experienced by blind or visually impaired individuals? I think I've heard of that. I've not really come across or remember any, any stories, but I, it's got, it must happen. And, uh, you know, is there telepathic communication with the depth? Uh, not many stories like that come forward if they're, if they are. Yeah. Yeah. And so you've got to wonder if it does happen. Well, obviously if there's something in the sky, uh, somebody who is visually impaired may not even pick up on it, you know, uh, but they may feel, they may have other feelings. So it's fascinating area to, to dive into. You'd really have to do a study, but then again, it's, it's really hard to, you know, we, we, paranormal researchers can't be studying everything, but it's a, it's a fascinating aspect of that. Yeah. And does it always occur on our available senses? I think there's some senses that, that pick up. And then most of us are kind of, uh, you know, if you're pretty dulled to your senses, you're not picking up on stuff. That's pretty obvious anyway. So there's a lot of stuff we miss is I think is the point. Uh, another question here, uh, is doppelganger activity, just stone tape three starting up. Like you see a copy of yourself going up the stairs. And for the next hundred years, ghost hunters see the same ghost yours go up the same stairs. More importantly, why, why won't your doppelganger do the dishes or vacuum? So I guess if there's a clone, a ghost myself, I wouldn't be doing chores either. I think that's the answer to that one. But, uh, there has been stories. Uh, there's a famous one of a ghost that said a former bank in Mexico City, I believe. And they see his ghost, he was a bank president, very important man, a very nice guy, but he's still there doing paperwork. They could see him like, oh, this is big because I think in, in that it's maybe not so much stone tape theory or doppelganger your, what you were concerned with in life. He maybe figures that he's not done yet. It's like, he maybe passed too quickly. It's like, no, no, this, I have to keep doing my job. And you'll, there's a, there's a video, a security video of a barmaid in, uh, in England at a pub wiping down the tables before she flies into the wall. So you do these patterns, I think that you did in life. If you're, if you really haven't moved on, because that's what you did. And so these are other, it's, it's different kinds of phenomena happening. Stone tape could just be a visual image. Uh, our friend Marty, who saw, uh, a very well-dressed, uh, gentleman standing behind him, uh, in the bed, you know, whether he's getting ready for dinner, adjusting his time. And he said, he looked like, uh, Neville, um, uh, John Neville, uh, from, uh, Baron Munchausen, that kind of just very regal. And, but I said, do you get the feeling he was a ghost? He said, no, I don't think there was anybody there. And, you know, he's not really well studied in paranormal, uh, our friend Marty, but he said, I just didn't get the feeling that he was, that I was just seeing a reflection or just something that he just shows up and that's, this is trapped there. So anyway, a lot of different phenomenon going on. So, uh, you want to take, uh, the next one? Yeah. So let me take this one from Sue Bowman. I would like to know what the most recent updates are regarding the search for Amelia Earhart, Fred Noonan, and their electroplane. Uh, your show has certainly brought my mind. Thank you so much. That nice comment, Sue. Thank you. And thank you for the question. Um, uh, and again, these are just, uh, for folks who are asking questions in the comments, we'll try to get to those too. Uh, we are going through the ones that were submitted on Patreon as well, that we have a bunch of to get to as well. Um, but, um, with regard to your question, Sue, there is, uh, there is a lot and not enough going on with regarding, regarding Amelia Earhart. We still believe that Bill Snavely has a very, very good chance of possibly having found her plane. And there are folks working behind the scenes to fund an expedition to that and working very hard to try to get more people involved to have deep pockets, uh, to go out there and answer the question once and for all. But one of the problems that's happening is that it's been so long with that particular aircraft that the coral has pretty much devoured it. It, it's really just coral in the shape of a plane at this point, anywhere there was steel that could be eaten or corroded, it's gone and it's getting worse every year. So you combine, you take that and that is combined with the fact that, um, and folks might not remember this, but, uh, but shortly before COVID there was a whole thing that happened where, uh, they'd done this special documentary and we have this surprise photo called the Jaluit Atoll photo, which seemed to show Earhart and Noonan on a pier in Japan, uh, and the island, well, not in Japan, but an island that was, uh, owned by Japan at that point, which I guess maybe it is technically Japan. I can't remember, but either way, if it was them, it would prove that they survived and that Japan at one point had custody of them. And there was a whole special one out on the history channel. And then right after that happened, the, um, the, uh, somebody from Japan came forward and said, there's no way this date, these dates don't match up and debunked it. And then the person disappeared, but that was enough to undermine that entire special. Oh, and then all the entertainment companies that fund these kinds of operations that are as interested in selling ads for them as they are in getting to the, uh, to the solution, they pulled the plug on wanting to invest in it anymore. Cause they, everybody was just like, no, this is too dangerous. It's too unlikely. And we're tired of following this. So now, you know, Bill's getting older and this plane has been in the water longer. And so getting somebody to go and drop, you know, 200 grand or maybe 300 to get to the, go down there and look for something significant, like a rubber tire that would still be there or something else that would be good. And Nancy, to ask your question, uh, the coral forms around the steel, the salt in the water eats the steel. So it's like a combination platter of corrosion. Concretion. Yeah. You'll see that if you watch it, it just, it, yeah, basically, uh, it's all salt water too, as you know. So it's, uh, it eventually everything gets corroded and, uh, you just, you don't know what you're looking at at some point. Yeah. Yeah. So you have to bring the whole thing up and pick it apart. But what Scott was talking about just real briefly, cause I, I love it as a mystery solving, especially with this one, every month, it seems like there's a new one, but that photo came up and, uh, it was in a Japanese travel log that was, uh, wire bound and then, or a bound with string, very rare, but they did produce those at the time showing that photo. And then somebody came out and said, Oh, you know what? That doc wasn't even built then, you know, it couldn't be it. And so everybody was trying to debunk it. A lot of famous voices as well, uh, that we talked about at the show. And, uh, there was a letter from the, the government there from Bougainville, uh, that said, uh, that proved it's like, no, no, that doc was there. So that debunked the debunking and then, yeah. And it looks a lot like Earhart and Nunez or as some people say, I mean, getting into the whole thing, but some people think that there was a double and two missions and all that. And even if it wasn't Earhart, it was the double, uh, that they were doing to try to get, uh, photographs of the, of the Pacific theater. There were no other white people there in the area except for the local, you know, and then there's the, uh, Koshumaru, uh, or the, uh, the ship that was hauling the, you cannot see in the photo a little bit, but there's a plane that they're hauling behind it. So anyway, uh, that's that behind the point. Yes. So it does that though. It was almost fishier what they said about the photo than the photo itself was, but whatever it was, it scared away all the media companies that will, that would invest in that kind of expedition. So there are, there are attempts to fund another one, but it is a slow going to answer that question. Um, so let's, uh, let's move forward here, uh, to our next question. You want me to, uh, I'll, I'll, uh, outline this one. You can dive in here. So, uh, cause I just wanted to say the Yuba County five is a story that we've, uh, considered doing. And then a lot of times, you know, other podcasts, of course, Greg, by the way, who wanted to know if we would do these topics. Yes. Yeah. So there's, right. So there's three topics he lists, uh, one being the Yuba County five, would we ever cover it? And, uh, you know, other, as I was saying, other podcasts have certainly covered, we've all done the same stories usually. And, uh, uh, there is, except for when a friend, you know, does one or somebody very close, maybe we might consider depending on, on their take on it. And I just say, I got to say our friend, Rob Christopherson did a really touching and thorough podcast on it. And just the music he chose just in his narration on it. And it's just so heart-wrenching and sad because it is a very sad, uh, heartbreaking story. And, and, uh, so he did it very well. If you want to hear a good podcast on, I guess is what I'm saying, uh, check his out. Uh, maybe one day we'll kind of cover it, but again, since it's somebody we know and a friend, it's like a lot of our determination, I think Scott would agree to do a story. Can we bring anything to it? That's new. And sometimes, uh, that involves some research we may have found, or I guess that no one else or not many people have talked to. And so, uh, you know, moving on here, uh, to number story, number two, the 2006 O'Hare airport UFO, that was in a very intriguing one. And one that was, I think recently also been, uh, had been trying to be debunked, but I believe there's something to it because it punched a perfect hole in the cloud. So many witnesses saw it, uh, they shut down the airport. Uh, they don't do that over, you know, a lenticular cloud kind of formation. So I think there's something to it. And I can't remember what the, uh, the rational explanation put forth was very recently to try and debunk that one, but a lot of times you'll see that the waters are so murky nowadays of, of going back and forth and experts and, and, uh, who's got the agenda, who's a disinformation agent. That's a, that's a real, uh, hot topic here. Uh, even bandied about with our group here, like who's telling the truth, who put them up to it because you can just, you go crazy. It's like, uh, no, that's what they want you to believe. And so, yeah, you can go nuts. But I would like to one day look into that, but, uh, it also has to be a little more meaty, uh, than maybe just a single incident that, um, you know, again, if we could find a, uh, uh, an eyewitness to it to describe that would propel us to, uh, you know, kind of get us to do the story. Same thing with Elisa Lam here, the, uh, the third question here, uh, that was a long time ago. It intrigued us. We don't usually cover, uh, uh, true crime stories so much, unless there's some kind of, you know, some mystery to it. Sometimes you will, but that was one where, yeah, there was enough weird stuff going on. And of course, uh, you know, uh, detective Reddit gets, you know, officer Reddit gets in the case and everybody jumps on and, uh, there's a great documentary I think produced by Ron Howard's company, a four part series that, uh, cover that very well. It's just a very creepy thing, but it's also, you know, it's quite a tragic thing. And there may have been, uh, some, you know, mental illness involved. Uh, we did have a line on somebody that could have possibly gotten us one of the investigating, um, detectives that wasn't involved. And so, okay, there's our angle. He came to our meetup in LA that we did at the, um. The idle hour. So, uh, yeah, I can't believe I remember that, but, uh, yeah, it was a great meetup, uh, 2017, 2018. And then, uh, you know, he said, well, I could possibly get you an interview. And then he just wasn't involved because, uh, as experienced, uh, we'll tell you, you know, a lot of times he, what the word was like, you media guys always lie. Right. And I can't blame him. Uh, so he just didn't want to do it. Plus he's probably tired of talking about it. So we really had nothing to bring to it. I remember him saying the case was particularly disturbing and that it was straight up just emotional, uh, mental health stress and that sort of thing. And that there wasn't really a paranormal component to it, which of course, you know, we've covered stories in spite of people having those opinions, uh, when we go into them. But sometimes, you know, it does stop you in your tracks a little bit. It's like, well, this detective was there and you know, they, I, I think that, you know, it's just a tragic and like, and like Forrest said, it's tragic. It's hard to be respectful of, um, her family. And, and we have come across stories before where, well, we were unable to share them because there were living relatives associated with people who were deceased. And then you start talking about, oh, well, this dead person is contacting a total stranger, but not you, not the one in the family who's related to him. It's like, yeah, we, we're probably not going to run that. So, no, there's, there's, it, and it doesn't usually happen, but, uh, you know, thing is you're talking about real people. There's, I think there's two attitudes about true crime. People say like, yeah, you're just making a buck off these people's tragedy. And, uh, it's like, well, yeah, you have to get paid to do this. You know, you should be, uh, to keep, to keep going. So, uh, like everybody else, uh, you know, there is, uh, it's a business to cover this. And then on the other hand, you could say like, well, you're keeping these stories alive. And I've heard that from people who, uh, uh, who are family members, like, no, I'm glad you covered this because people are forgotten about this. There's so much going on. Uh, we need to keep this alive. It's still not solved. Thank you so much for covering this. So I think oftentimes, you'll, depending on, uh, how the people feel and how you treat it. There's a lot of people who will complain who aren't really involved or part of the family or just, you know, they're just kind of complaining. Now, just a quick anecdote here about why you should be careful. It's funny. I, uh, this is an anecdote from a friend of mine, uh, and it wasn't her, but she worked at this, uh, she worked at this place. It was kind of like a cafe and, uh, they were talking about this very popular true crime podcast, maybe one of the top ones here. Uh, I won't say which one, but it, uh, it features, uh, two ladies, one of the most, uh, the top ones here and they covered a case and somebody at the cafe was trying to get this other friend, uh, worker to listen. It's like, you got to listen to this. Oh my God. You know, the guy who did it, he's such a freak and a weirdo and, and, uh, you know, what a horrible evil person. And, and he goes, but they, they covered it so well. They made, they, you know, they were making a lot of fun of, you know, fun of him. And it was really funny. Like, and so she agreed, okay, I'll give it a listen. Came back the next day and was just in tears. She's like, that was my dad. They were making fun of it. Right. Uh, you know, and he's nothing like that. They got it all wrong. Yeah. So, uh, it doesn't often happen and they go, Oh, I'm sorry. Well, yeah. It's so, you know, again, there's a way to cover things in a, with some journalistic integrity and there's, and then there's a, just making fun of people. Uh, and not that they, this podcast does this all the time. That was one case that were, that was what it was related to me. So we don't want to do that. Um, but we will cover something if it's interesting and just to kind of keep the, uh, the case alive. And especially if we can get an angle on it, that's different. Now, of course, I want to bounce into the comments here real quick. There is, um, a question from Lance who, uh, I know we have questions on our spreadsheet from, but he asked if, if we thought a astonishing legends or a future permutation of it is what we might retire from one day. Or do we see ourselves going to another profession eventually? Um, so what, what's your, what's your, uh, thought on that? Well, you know, I, when we first started, it's like, you know, Scott and I come from an entertainment background and, and various, uh, uh, peripheries there. And, uh, one thing about everybody says, oh my God, you got it. You got a TV show. That's so cool. You're starring on this, or it's another show like, like Lord that gets a TV show. And, and, uh, and I really liked it, uh, at least the first season. And, uh, and everybody thinks you, you just made 2 million books. You got it made. It's like, Hey, they can cancel you after the first episode. If you're not tracking well. Yeah. And so I always thought with a podcast, like, well, they can't cancel us. They can, they can do that, but you can, uh, start to, uh, you know, sponsorship can go down. Uh, it costs money to do what we do and to pay people fairly that help us out with this. And, uh, we try to keep it very professional. So as long as we can keep doing that, I guess we'll, we'll keep going, uh, as, uh, you know, with the terrific support of, uh, listeners as such as yourselves. And I think at some point, if there's another permutation with it, it would be where Scott and I kind of maybe, because at some point you don't want to keep working until, you know, I dropped out here or, you know, at some point I would like to relax, sit on my deck, drink coffee, look at trees, you know, read a book. I would love to read a book as kind of always say just for fun, go fishing and all that. So, uh, maybe we, we become more like executive producers where we have other shows that we're, uh, kind of the emeritus, uh, producers on and we check in and we kind of guide it, give some, uh, you know, Tim tips and tricks and, and some creative, uh, direction to, but kind of scale it back a little bit. So we'll probably always be involved and certainly we'll, we'll always be around, I think, to talk to people. And maybe if, once we scale it back, we have more time to talk to folks like this, because this is the reason that we did the show in the first place is this kind of interaction and people's stories and get their opinions on stuff and just to relate terrific stories. So yeah. Yeah. All right. What do you, what do you think, Scott? You ready to hang it up? Because this is, sometimes it's real tough. It's a lot. It's a lot of work and it's like anyone who owns their own business. I mean, we're, we're working seven days a week. Sometimes the only way I know it's the weekend in my house is because my son is home and not at school. Uh, but you know, it's, it's, and I, I still try to take a day off every now and then, but every thing's occurred to you, Oh, we need to do this. We need to do that. But we're pretty much, we're at maximum bandwidth now. So it's hard to expand a whole lot. That's why it takes us a long time to roll out things like the dead letter office was in 18 months of kind of planning and figuring out how to do that and getting it started. And now that it's rolling, it's rolling. And that's why we've been working on the animation thing, which some of you may have seen, um, in, in Patreon. And that's the next thing we're kind of want to do, but we're trying to keep that real cheap too, because that's when you roll something out like that, there's no income from it. So it's, it's, you're going out of pocket to say, Hey, let's, let's roll the dice on this and see if people be interested in it. So we'll see about that. Um, but, um, I don't particularly see myself. I'm certainly not going back to my prior career, which, um, I can't remember if it's you, Lance or somebody else is down here further on the spreadsheet, but I can, might as well answer it now. Like, well, you know what we did before and what we did after I used to edit TV commercials, as I've said. And, um, that was my whole thing before, before this, I'm not going back to that. I'm not going back to editing the career I left behind doesn't really exist anymore because the technology has progressed so much and all of those things have changed. I don't particularly want to do that again anyway. So if this goes away, I'm going to, yes, I will have to find something else because I can't afford to retire, but we are trying to, uh, trying to keep it going. So, yeah, just, uh, no, Scott and I, I also worked in corporate media production and events and the corporate training and things like that. And, uh, freelance or we say permalance, uh, because you might be in a job for three, six months a year. Uh, you might be, it might be just a week and when things were really tough back in 2010, you were begging and scrap, uh, you know, scrapping for every job you could get as a freelancer. And there were just very few. And so it was very tight, very scary, uh, while it was very light. And, um, so you just took anything that you could and their jobs are really tough and monotonous and, and they could just be really grueling. And, uh, I just one day after I transitioned to this, like basically I stopped getting calls for jobs. I mean, when producers that I used to get jobs for or calling me, like that's a bad side. Yeah. Have you heard anything like, Hey, I get my jobs from you. What do you mean? So, um, yeah, it's just, uh, uh, in that point, I always wanted to have them start calling again. It's like, I don't need your job. I'm a podcaster. Yeah. And, uh, no one's ever called. So they stopped calling. Thank goodness. There's a lot of serendipity with this podcast here and that we were able to support ourselves, you know, in a modest fashion since then. And it's just like, yeah, they stopped calling and they, nobody ever calls. I can never rub it into anybody's face. So really not that I wanted to, but just say like, no, no, I have something else that is more mine. Yeah. And I call the shots and just a quick answer to, uh, uh, let's see here to Rhonda Ray's question. Who voices Mr. Darling in the midnight library? Well, uh, we can tell you that, uh, the, the voice actor that does that and, uh, Miranda Merrick, who is, uh, who is the star of that show, uh, we like to keep it very, uh, keep the mystery around it. So they'll never divulge who does it, but it is somebody we kind of know and, uh, they enjoy doing it. And that's about all we can tell you. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. 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Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, our programs are designed for people who never stop. You bring the fire, APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu. Forrest and Scott, thank you for supporting their sponsors. I'm Rachel Stokes. Now back to the show. So let's look here at this question from Carol. For both Scott and Forrest, do either of you guys have a road not taken in terms of profession? Entirely different path. For me, for this, this is a pretty short answer, really. But I started out wanting to be a mechanical engineer and went to college and studied engineering. I tried to get in the School of Design at NC State University, which is a very hard school to get into. And I didn't quite make it. But the design classes I took, I really loved. And then as I was moving into mechanical engineering and working my way up through Calculus 3 and also Calculus-based physics, I was having some mental challenges keeping up with the complex mathematics. I was one of those people, when I studied math, geometry was super easy for me. But formula-based stuff was really complicated. So I don't know where all that is now. But as a result, I wound up changing majors and I got into more entertainment-oriented stuff. I never expected to be an editor, a film editor. That sort of happened accidentally. But I was aiming for that overall genre. So that's the road not taken for me, would have been maybe being some kind of engineer or design person or something like that. What question was that? That is the ninth one on our spreadsheet there. Oh, OK. If you take a look at it, that's a very different path. Oh, you know, well, I'd always wished I'd, well, again, yeah, it's a different path. I wished I had studied fine art and became a painter. But that requires a lot of skill. I think I have a little bit. Forrest does calligraphy, everybody. No one asked that. Not really. No, but he's very, he draws some very beautiful letters with the film. Oh, thank you. Well, I owe that to my dad who is a, yeah, he studies and was a commercial illustrator and in advertising for a lot of his career. So I picked that up from him. But no, that's one of those jobs where it's like, you really got to sell it. Nobody's, it's all speculative. It's all unspec. Nobody's asking for it. So you have to, you have to sell it and you have to be good. And so to make a living at it. But yeah, just as a hobby now, I wish, again, when we do scale back and hopefully retire one day, it's something I can, I can do because you can do that when you're much older. So yeah, that's, that's one thing. But as far as professions yeah, I think the choices that we made, and we certainly had big ones, you know, forks in the road. Uh, here's something people, I, I had an opportunity for a four-year ROTC scholarship, uh, to study film at USC. And I'd already, that was like second, uh, uh, second choice, or I was, um, second round draft pick, you could say. And so I'd already made other plans. It's like, nah, I don't want to, maybe I don't want to do that. Maybe I'll just, I'll just try to do that on my own. If I had chosen that, we would probably wouldn't be here. Right. Because it's all, you know, your life is a sum of choices that you make. That's right. I wouldn't be, everything would have been different for me. Had I stayed at NC state, I wouldn't have met my wife. I would have had a whole completely different life and I wouldn't have met Forrest because it was my wife that took me to LA really. Um, yeah. So it's, yeah, no, no, it's just all, it's just the people that we knew. And, and, uh, again, it's just like things would have been totally different. Uh, my folks, like I think when I was an infant, uh, tried to drive down to Southern California because my dad wanted to study film and the, uh, the 46 Ford, they had kept overheating. So they had to turn back, had it not my life, you know, I, I owed a life change to, uh, a bored out eight cylinder, uh, motor at a 1946 Ford, which they used to do to get more power out of them. But, uh, yeah, it just, I've had that not happen and everything. So, yeah, that's just amazing to look back and see, uh, how things have changed and how they would have. And, and just the, uh, but here we are and, uh, and I'm thankful for this. They, uh, there's a few things I may have done differently, but, uh, I'm glad I'm here with Scott and all you folks. So, uh, did you want to do number seven? That was, that was interesting. Uh, yeah, yeah. Let's do that. Go ahead. Okay. Let's see. Is there, is there, I'll read it. Sorry. Is there an event or incident you initially thought would be great to cover, but after a bit of research discovered there wasn't anything to it. And then, uh, this is from Robbie Fago and then, uh, Robbie adds, my example would be the ghost of Berkeley square in London, which terrified me when I read about it at a young age. But when you check it out even slightly, it's just a gruesome Victorian, uh, short horror short story. And like, I, I know that we've had somewhere where you're like, we looked into them and we backed off of them and maybe you'll remember those better. The one for me that's similar to what Robbie's saying here, and I know I've mentioned it on the air is the, uh, the there's room for one more story that was in reader's digest about the elevator that falls, you know, and all the people die in it. And like the, and it turned out, I was like, ah, I thought it was a true story. Cause readers digest, if anybody even old enough to remember that, but my great grandmother used to get it and it had these stories in the middle and I would always read them. And they were very, um, folklore ish and legendary and that sort of thing. And one of them was there's room for one more. It's a whole long thing. I'm not going to tell it here, but, uh, I was like, ah, this must've been based on a true story as a kid. I thought it was, and then when we looked into it and I was like, no, this is, you know, completely, completely made up fictional. Oh, really? Okay. That's interesting. Um, yeah, quickly, you know, the reverses happen a couple of times, uh, something and we don't spend much time. One before I forget the one that I recently brought up, a lot of it has to do with your, uh, you know, when we pitch each other stories and then sometimes guys like, let's do this. Like, that sounds good to me. And, uh, if you think there's enough to it, I trust him and his judgment. Uh, I think I, I come up with more wacky ideas. Just pick up from places, but the one that I came across, I still want to cover it. I still think there may be something there, but we were scrambling. This is probably, uh, uh, the fall of last year is a story of a, a U-boat captain got picked up and he claimed his, his, uh, the U-boat was sunk by a giant sea monster. And, uh, you know, when he was picked up by the British, uh, this would be 1917, 1918, I think, you know, first world war, uh, era. And, uh, he made a full report. Uh, people would say like, well, yeah, he's just embarrassed because, and this is where Scott said, I checked this out. It turns out they left a hatch open and that's what he was just embarrassed. He made up this story. It's like, I still want to find out what happened. You know, I still want to dig deeper on it. That's like the train that hit the UFO. It's, I do think sometimes people are at work and they're like, Oh, I'm, I'm done for it. I have made the worst mistake ever. And then it's like, it was a UFO or, you know, Well, the worst mistake ever is, is using that as an excuse. I think because it's like, because the others has, uh, you know, famously people have used that, uh, in the reverse to try and debunk something. Uh, I'm talking about, uh, Travis Walton, fire in the sky story where, uh, it was a glass. He was one of the investors. He was like, well, they just made this all up because they were short on their quota of timber and they weren't going to make it. And they needed some excuse to like why they weren't there, you know, why they're going to fail. It's like, that's what you pick that that's, that's the story you're going to go with. So you, which ruins all your lives. Cause now you've got people like glass who are, uh, you know, making you look like you're insane. It's just, some people do that kind of thing though, but I don't think the folks that you interview, uh, are of that ilk, uh, much less a stern, serious German U-boat captain. I think he'd be captain. Yeah, that's true. Unless it was some kind of, you know, like it. So, uh, sometimes you look into that one that was very surprising. It was a delightful surprise is that Scott early on Scott, uh, found, uh, I think it was, um, what in the world, the, uh, the satellite imagery, uh, show. And he said like, Hey, let's do one on bike, uh, Lake Baikal. It's like, okay, cool. Yeah. I looked, we started looking on it and just geographically, you know, it didn't have to be paranormal, but it's like, uh, man, this is a really cool geological feature. It's just the silt. You know, I think this one of the world's, if not the deepest, but it's a rift lake, uh, in the region. And just what freaked me out is just the silt at the bottom. They estimate to be four and a half miles deep of just buried. Imagine what's in there, dinosaurs, UFOs, whether, uh, one, one iteration of Atlantis, you don't know. Uh, and so I was like, well, this is all very cool. And, uh, but there's, I just, it just needs a hook. There needs to, I wish there was some kind of paranormal thing. And then we started diving deeper into it, uh, pun intended and say, wait, there's a report of 12 Russian divers or nine Russian divers that got, or, you know, or four, was it six of them got ejected from the water suddenly mysteriously. And they reported seeing, you know, eight, nine foot tall swimmers, very long and lanky wearing silver suits and bubble helmets. And they were doing something. They came across it, didn't like, uh, the, the company and eject them to where, uh, several of the diver, the Russian divers died of, uh, uh, narcosis, the bends. And so nitrogen, like narcosis. And so, uh, it's like, okay, there you go. And then you start peeling away. It's like, wait, there's nearby. There's a story that's related of, uh, the Chinese military finding bodies in stasis in a deep hibernation that were alien. And they just burn them all and seal it up. And maybe they tried to revive one. He was alive for a little bit. Maybe they captured it. It's like, so that's the, uh, where you find a nice surprise of like, okay, here we go. Now it's, now it's something that's, um, juicy. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's, now it's much juicier. So, uh, but as far, yeah, the other ones, uh, a lot of times we'll, we'll dig into it and, uh, we just want to see what's going on. And people will say like, well, there's no mystery there. It's like, I want to find that out too. If there's nothing to it, I just want to know what was going on. Right. Uh, and, uh, you know, so a lot of times we'll come across a story and it's like, well, it's a little thin and I always thought that about the black night satellites, like, well, it's just there, except that if you take the breadth of it, of like what this thing is, you start watching the shows, uh, and, uh, you know, you start watching these shows and it's like, okay, there's more to it because they've connected that to some other, uh, there's some other phenomenon about things floating. It's not just space debris that's giant and black. It looks like no other space debris that they've ever found or launched. So that one I use, it's like, we need, we need more and we need to talk to somebody because, uh, you know, you can only get, we can only get so far. So it is one of those things where, yeah, it's just like, it just kind of, uh, falters out or, or, or fizzles out. And, uh, you know, there's so many other subjects we could be covering. All right. So do you have any bucket list topics? This is from Hannah Nicholas. Hannah, thank you for this question. Do you have any bucket list topics that you're really wanting to cover someday on the podcast? I think a lot of people who've been listening a minute, um, will know. And, uh, particularly who was it that said, uh, Oh, Alexandra Lee, who said she's been with us since Hollywood endings, which is the very first show. She has a question too, which I'll, which a lot of people asked a similar version of. So I might address that as well here in a second, but in terms of bucket list, one for me is MH370. Um, and we, uh, you'll be pleased to know that, uh, in the summer with a little bit of a lighter production schedule, that's something that we're diving into and, um, trying to, it's just incredibly complicated. And, uh, to, uh, for the bucket list question for you, Hannah, and then also for Alexandra and then other folks who have asked about our evolving format and the deep dives and the, you know, why don't you do six part, you know, whatever's from before, uh, a lot of folks asked about that. We do love doing that stuff, but we had more, um, more time to do that. But then also the other thing that happened with us, and this is sort of a production pipeline thing that I think maybe people don't think about. I mean, some people do. It depends on your expertise. Um, I don't know if my friend Anson's in here. He's a producer. He always asks me these business questions. He's got, he's got one coming up, but, um, it's when your show, when your show like ours and we're bouncing around to lots of different topics, uh, which was sort of modeled after unsolved mysteries to a certain extent. And, and if you're older in search of, and, and shows that would touch on different things, but we were also not weekly, uh, which would be very, very hard to produce, especially with the level of research we were doing and are doing still. Uh, but for the first year or two, we were 36 shows a year. We're basically three on one off most of the time year round. And then we had to go down to 26. And then it's like, if you do a six parter and you're biweekly, then that's three months on Bigfoot. When we did Bigfoot, it was like two, it's still two months by the way, but it was, it was two months. And then all the people that didn't care about Bigfoot and we're skipping us for two months where that, that's a thing where you're, Oh, we're alienating this big chunk of people who could care less about cryptids or are so sick of Bigfoot or whatever. So there's a little bit of a risk for us when we stay on something that long, uh, in terms of, uh, diluting our audience, which, you know, we don't want to do because there are things that we'd love to talk about for a super long time. But on the other hand, uh, there's people that only listen to us for the ghost stuff, or they only listen for the UFO stuff, or they only listen to. So there's a little bit, it's a little bit of a catch 22 and like, uh, walking a tightrope there in terms of what we're going to talk about and when, but we still want to do those. And there's, I think there, for me, there's a future where the show evolves into, uh, having more of those back in the mix, but they take longer to produce now. And with all the other stuff going on, we have to, uh, get a lot of runway to get one of those ramped up and then decide how we're going to roll it out in a way that, uh, doesn't alienate people who aren't interested in it. But that's, so that's, that's my thing. So it turns the bucket list for me. It's that the other thing about MHCity, by the way, is I keep thinking, you know, there's always a headline. It's usually fake on Instagram. It's like, they found it. And I'm like, oh, we got to wait. We should wait until this happens, you know? And then it's like, okay, that was nothing. That was BS. And there's nothing there. So there's, there's that kind of thing. And then there's a whole big on Reddit. I don't know who's seen it, but there is a massive amount of stuff about UFOs and MHCity, which of course an angle I want to cover. I'm personally more interested in just the idea that it fully disappeared under the direction of a human being. Like, what is the reasoning behind that paranormal or not? I don't necessarily think it snapped out of existence, but I want to talk about that too. And that's a whole nother thing. That's a great case. I want to know what, what's the, uh, the current thinking of it, because we've been kind of keeping, it's got a lot more, I've been reading into it. Uh, you know, that's more on his bucket list, but I, I do want to get to, uh, I want to know all there is currently to know about it. And so, uh, is there anything to it? Because a lot of times you pass it off and it, it all depends on your point of view and where you're getting the information. So always consider the source, as I say, but like, don't go, uh, you know, you can't rely everything on, on, on one source or the other, because you'll see like, oh, they've just dismissed this. It's like, yeah, but that person or that source dismisses everything. Right. And so if you're of the elk, like we are, there's more to it. You just can't, you just don't explain it away. It's like, okay, I'm leaving that possibility open. I know it's crazy. It's woo woo, but, uh, let's see what's going on. And I'll may, I'll decide for myself what, uh, seems to be, uh, unlikely. And so, uh, that's, that's one of his, uh, and finally just a comment on the Patterson Gimlin film. When we did that, it's just so funny and I, and everything's ironic these days, but people, they hated it. I mean, the, the feedback where you're like, oh my God, you guys, you're killing us. It's like, I can't, I can't take it. And they kept listening. It's just like another part. And it's like, you know, I thought I'd give up after part seven. It's like, but they kept listening. And then now traffic thing on YouTube, the YouTube versions of it too, or multiple comments daily. You know, obviously, uh, people who don't care anything about, uh, Bigfoot or cryptids aren't going to listen anyway. So yeah, as Scott said, it kept people away for a while. Uh, hopefully a lot of them came back, but, uh, what was funny is that the people that this is what we love and why we love, uh, partly why we love doing the show is that people say, I, I didn't care about this at all. And then it's like, oh, I got nothing else to listen to. I'll listen to it. And it's like, I got really into it. And I, I learned stuff. I never, I never thought of before. And I actually really ended up really liking it. And, uh, that's very rewarding. It's just like, okay, you don't have to love it, but just see if there's anything in there that, uh, that you didn't consider before. And maybe it expanded your thinking on something and it did for us as well. Uh, not knowing the whole story, but yeah, so that was, uh, that was kind of rewarding. But now a lot of people, uh, we get kudos for it, but at the time, yeah, there was a lot of pushback. Uh, as far as like my bucket list, uh, there's always one from early on years before we did this, but my dad had a book and he'd read half of it and it's about the great cross of Hende, H-E-N-D-A-Y-E. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, that's kind of, that's one I've always wanted to cover, uh, because it's this kind of, no one knows who put it there or who made it. It just showed up one day. Um, and it, it is a, you could, it looks like an old iron rot mailbox. It's kind of square. I think it's on a pedestal, but basically the engravings on it, once people started figuring out what the engravings on it, and it has to do, and again, just very vaguely because I wanted to be fresh. So I actually really, uh, other than just being a, a cursorarily interested in it, don't know what it all means, but it has to do with the, um, some of the constellations and star mapping and the, the, the great red dragon, uh, in the sky and possibly a, uh, a comet or some destructive near end of world extinction level event, um, cataclysm that could be mapped out. And so it's just this fascinating thing. There's a great book on it. And, uh, but it's a textbook. The book is about an inch and a half thick, I think, or at least an inch thick. I bought it. He did buy it. It's so, cause I, I, it's got, that came up again. It's kind of like, why don't we cover that? It's like, okay, we'll get the book. And then I think we got the book. He's like, yeah, that's, we can't do this in a week and a half. Yeah. Yeah. But we will, one day we will, and one day I will read that book, but that's a, that's a bucket list one for me. Yeah. I like that. All right. So, uh, let's see where we're at here. I wanted to, Oh, Hannah, you did also, Hannah also asked, I don't know if Hannah's here right now, but, uh, pie in the sky dreams for AL. I'll just take that one very briefly or the podcast or the network right now. All the pie in the sky is just surviving and staying like the business has changed a fair amount. So like, you know, there was, there was definitely a few years ago, I would have said, Oh yeah, we want to do all this stuff and, and, uh, do more and everything. But the economy changed with podcasting and in general. So now, uh, and, and the revenue took a hit. So it's like, it's harder for us to get by than it used to be. So the main thing I just hope for us now is to keep putting out good content, keep doing what we're already doing, expand very slowly, safely, and carefully. And, um, you know, I, I think in, in do what's realistic for us. And yes, if the brand evolved into something more, that would be really cool. But it, the, the main thing is, uh, and Forrest and I are both, this is why we always agree on how to run the business. We're both very slow and steady wins the race. And that's, that's sort of what we're, what we're interested in. Um, then there was, uh, Steven Keklak asked, uh, what EPA and associated electronics do you use? And I went into Patreon and asked what EPA meant there. Cause I don't know. I'm presuming he's not talking about our audio equipment. Do you know for us what that means? I do not. It does not ring a bell immediately. Okay. Um, so, uh, if it does mean gear, we use, um, uh, Apogee duet twos made by the company Apogee electronics for our audio in and out and sure SM seven Bs for our microphones. Uh, we use a thing called a launcher, which is similar to another thing called a cloud lifter that puts some warmth back into your, uh, microphone and you can do a lower setting and it doesn't, it's not powered, but it boosts the signal and gives it warmth back so that it's not all digital. And, um, that's kind of it. And we record, uh, this is going straight into stream yard, which is one of many apps that allow you to broadcast live and it records itself and it makes local recordings too. So you, you, and you can kind of work with that in post-production, although it it's, uh, it's not as good as recording locally on a high end digital audio editor like pro tools, which is what we use for all of our sessions. And that's what we give our editor is pro tools files. No matter what we're doing on video, she gets that because that's easier to use. And then a program like the one we're using to do this stream stream yard is a backup for that. Oh, you want me to knock down? I was going to knock down a couple of the ones in the chat column. You do that. I'll line him up and you go into the chat there. Okay. So I'm not going to add a couple of these questions here. So one is from Alexandra and I think this is important with Scott. Now, I also wanted to talk about, you know, as people ask the questions about why we do the things we do as far as production, because there's re reasons. And a lot of times you'll see that in the Facebook group or something. It's like, and people, uh, it's just from early on, it's like somebody complaining about the commercials. It's like, uh, why are you doing five commercials? Like just do three. That's a, that's enough. And it's like, well, I don't tell you how many days to go into work. Okay. Uh, let's hang out. Why are you working Thursday and Friday? Let's go, uh, let's go fishing. Like I, so, so people, I think it's important to understand, uh, also how we are, we're produced here. So she asks, uh, I've been with you guys since Hollywood endings, uh, Alexander Lee here. Yes. Over the years. Things have evolved from deep dive. She's the one I was talking about a minute ago. Oh, okay. So, so basically as far as the, uh, uh, interview based, I wanted to add to that is that a lot of times, and, uh, and people may not understand this, although we try to explain it to this a lot of times somebody, and again, it is serendipitous getting back to that word or kismet where somebody will be, will come into our radar, let's say, uh, or just presented. It's like, somebody will say, Hey, do you want to talk to this person on this topic? It's like, yeah, it's like, well, they're, they're, they're very busy. They have, uh, you can do it in three weeks. So we grab it when we can. And sometimes it's very topical. And sometimes, uh, you know, it just depends if we can get, uh, you know, expert or somebody who's written a book on something, uh, and they agree to be on the show, uh, we try to incorporate them again, getting back to that thing of, of having a fresh angle on it. It's like, well, they haven't done a lot of interviews, but, and so I, I don't think we're really switching, uh, formats here to being more interview based, but it may seem like that. I totally understand that. And it's just maybe a spate of, or a, uh, or a run of where we've done some interviews. And so sometimes it's, it takes, it's a little less lifting on ours and we still have to do the research. We've got to come up with good questions. We have to, there's still a lot of work involved, but, uh, as far as us writing out, uh, an entire outline of research, sometimes that can help too. And also I've always thought this from the beginning. It's like with other people's podcasts, it's like, cause I know, you know, we know how the sausage is made. We're to see how the magicians pull the rabbit out of the hat. It's like, I think I'd rather hear from an expert than us, but a lot of people think they don't care. They just want to, you know, I just want to hear you. I don't like to hear other guests like, okay, I understand that. But, uh, but you know, there you go. And, uh, as far as like where I'm from, that gets asked a lot. I will just say again, Washington, Idaho, Montana, because I'm actually a very private person, um, outside of the show. Uh, now are you, um, let's see here. Uh, oh yeah. If you're still going here. Yeah. Kish, I'm still lining Kish up. Let's hear it. I want to go to Lisa Earhart's question. Uh, oh no, wait. Yeah. Let's do. Well, yeah. Cause Kish can ask his in person. We get that sort of, okay. Who's your favorite band? Well, obviously there's no formal, formal calligraphy, so there won't be, I have answered some letters where I just try to write nice and cursive. Uh, maybe you need to do like some kind of title card for us that we can. It just takes too, uh, I did design the, uh, the patch for the, uh, right. I did design the patch for the, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, the, uh, arc, the Astarsing Research Core. And so that was, uh, that was enough, uh, for a while. But anyway, uh, Lance loves the sound effects. Thank you. We've had a lot of complaints from those in the beginning until we kind of figured out how to massage those in. So, uh, cause it was more of a CNC. So we hear like, uh, and then I opened the door and then you'd hear the door open. It's like, no, you put this, you put the sound effect underneath what's happening. And so, uh, there's been a lot of adjustments and hopefully, uh, it's made, it's led to a better show. Uh, let's see here going down here. Uh, Nancy said the twilight episode and I can't remember what that was. I think I've seen most of those. Uh, she may come back. Uh, no, there's Tana. Okay. People be using fake names in the chat here. Oh, really? Okay. As we're finding out that Thomas Valencia is actually Hannah, whose questions we did a minute ago. And then, um, uh, all right, well, here's what I want to answer. Lisa Earhart's question. Who is your favorite band or musical artist off of our spreadsheet? And I just wanted to say, uh, this is easy for me. My favorite band of all time is Led Zeppelin far and away. Nobody else for me comes. I just absolutely love Led Zeppelin. Never get tired of him, but I like a lot of artists. I like Harry Nielsen. Uh, I like John Prine, kind of old school people, Harry Nielsen, John Prine, Paul Simon. Uh, I'm still a huge fan of Eurythmics. I have a ton of, uh, vinyl on them as well. And, um, I, but I just like all kinds of artists. And of course I'm a fan of Squirrel Nut Zippers and Tom, our friend, Tom Maxwell, who's been on our show. Um, but, uh, I just love, uh, all kinds of music, but my favorite probably band of all time is probably Led Zeppelin. I would say, I don't know where you're at. Oh, well, uh, yeah, I used to, uh, uh, listen to a lot more music. I think, um, in my earlier days with CDs, remember those? Yeah. Uh, and, and you say, well, and then, uh, in LA, you can see a lot of great live shows. So I went to a lot of live music and so, um, it was kind of, uh, interesting. And then I had friends and bands, of course. And so, yeah, did a lot of, uh, uh, live, uh, attending of the live music scene. And, uh, as far as alternative rock, I think the Pixies probably is, uh, one of my favorites. I certainly have a lot, but, uh, I was trying to turn Scott onto them. Uh, you know, just for the, yeah, just for like alternative rock, uh, they're still at the top. Uh, it also went to, uh, believe it like a lot of, uh, electronic dance music events back in the day. And so, uh, underworld, I think for them, uh, that's probably one of my favorite, uh, uh, not really EDM, but just kind of, um, uh, ambient, uh, electronic, I guess you could say. Uh, those are just two among many. I also love, uh, Led Zeppelin and all the classics. Uh, and, uh, yeah, so just, uh, there's, there's a lot. It's hard to pick, uh, choose the two, but, uh, uh, uh, any case, um, what we were saying about the, um, yeah, as far as, uh, as far as favorites go. And then, uh, did you, Scott, you had, you were mentioning something else. Oh, um, well I was going to get, let's see, I'm, I'm still working on getting Kish on here. So I'm going to push down. I want to go down. I'm actually going to go to, uh, let's see. Oh, right. Okay. Here's something we can talk about. This is from, uh, Zed's dead baby, who is a frequent poster on our Patreon and somebody who I enjoy communicating with about film, especially. And, uh, this question Forrest is, I guess this can be both for, uh, for both of you as Forrest always has an interesting take, but what way back, I don't remember when Scott, you uttered possibly the most controversial vitriolic and venomous statement that will ever be uttered on AL. I cannot quote you exactly as this is a family podcast, but I specifically remember you on one of the patented and well-loved tangents saying you were not a fan of the King, St. Stephen King. I felt like I had been sucker punched. You did then say that you loved his book on writing and that it was one of the best, uh, writings on writing ever. So firstly, why not? What leaves you cold Forrest? I imagine you're a fan, although I'm not certain. If so, what is your favorite work of his? So, um, so where's, where's that question? Um, it's on the spreadsheet. It's yeah. Gotcha. Okay. I, for me, wait, did you, did you say something bad about Stephen King? No, I just said, I'm not, I've never been a huge fan, but, but I had to think about this today. Like, why did I say that? It's like, it's nothing. It's him. I love him as a human being. I think he's a, excuse me. I think he's an amazing person, a lot of talent. Um, and as I was thinking about this, it's actually kind of just that genre of writing. I don't, I'm not big on reading, uh, horror. I'm not super into reading that for fun. I'm actually not super into horror films. If you can believe that. Um, I don't think it's like Tess loves horror. She's on shutter all the time. And like, and there's horror movies that I like, but I like the ones that are more, um, that are more esoteric, you know, that are, um, that there's less logical. Yeah. Less psychological, less is more kind of, but you know, that said, I will say, I just saw, I saw centers with my son a few weeks ago and I thought it was absolutely amazing. Loved it, loved every minute of it. So it's not like I don't like it, but whatever I was saying about Stephen King, probably not fair to say because, um, it's really just that it's not, not a genre that I'm super into, you know? And, uh, oh yeah. And so, uh, Maya says, uh, folk horror, which is, that's what centers is really. It's folk horror, I think more than Stephen King, uh, but for people that haven't seen that. And so I, I didn't mean to malign the man. Cause I, I am a huge fan of him as a person. And I'm surprised it wasn't me doing a hugely vitriolic and venomous way. That's kind of my, my brand, but no, I folks in that is not something I don't think you would want shared, but one thing we know, I know about Scott, uh, over the years getting known is that he's a, he's a very empathic person and, uh, he, he feels a lot with these stories. And so sometimes that's, it sometimes comes out in, in our recordings. And I think it adds so much to this show because we're not just reading articles here. Uh, so, and people notice that I think with, uh, Dyatlov Pass where that's also why we don't, I feel a little bit too, but, uh, him may be more aware we don't cover a lot of true crime because it's just like, Oh my God, it's just, you feel it. And it's just like, we don't need to be wallowing in that all the time. And, uh, you know, and so I think he, I think he actually, uh, it feels a lot. And so when you, when it's like slasher horror or just something, you know, I mean, I grew up with, this is another thing too, is I loved horror movies as a kid, but they're different. It wasn't hostile, you know, who bars one and two and seven. And it's like just the gore and like the, you know, Friday the 13th. Yeah. Those are fun. Uh, Halloween was creepy. It was good. It was a good, you know, but like slasher films, I know some folks are into that, but like, it's just, uh, for me, I, yeah, as you got older, it's like, I don't go to that as much. Um, and so, uh, you know, it's like, yeah, I'll watch it, but like, uh, just gore for gore's sake, or even if it's like, like some films now that, uh, I don't mean to sound like I don't, I don't care for the horror with the, you know, within, you know, the graphic, uh, uh, ultra kill, uh, and some movies like, uh, uh, what was it? Sucker? Not, uh, no, it was, uh, it was the, not the comic, the DC universe here with, uh, uh, she's not, uh, with Harley, Harley Quinn. Oh, Suicide Squad? Yes. And it's just like, it was just over a little over the top. And so, uh, and the one I just saw was, uh, was Havoc with, uh, I love, uh, Tom, what's his face, but, uh, but it was just like, just an endless, endless clips of bullets and just like overkill. And it's like, okay, he's just, he's just a bit much. And so I think what my, what I'm getting at is that, uh, uh, it has changed since I was a kid where, yeah, it was more kitschy or, or, or funny, or there's, there's more a sense of humor or even it was dark humor rather than just like, I just see no humor in that. And like, there's nothing rewarding about that to me. And so I've kind of gotten away with it as far as Stephen King, that's why I always thought there's a, there's a thinking element. And I, yeah, I am, you know, I'd say a fan of his, I think one of the first books I read finally covered a cover, uh, and there was a lot of short stories I read. One that kind of, uh, freaked me out was, uh, or, or just, it was just a short story about a vampire modern day who traveled by private plane. And he would, uh, he would travel like at a Piper cup and he would just stop at a little regional airport, you know, drain someone's blood, get back on the plane. It was hard to catch. Cause he just, we just in and out, he get rid of the logs and like somebody, I think looked at the side of the plane and it was all dirt, you know, so he was laying in his native soil dirt. And so he, uh, that was, I, I liked the short stories. Uh, the first one I read cover to cover, I think it was dead zone. Oh yeah. And I found that to be fascinating. And since then have met and have made pretty good friends with people who do have a little bit of that ability, the psychometrics where they can touch something or someone and, and pick up a sense of what's, what's happening with them. So it's funny that that turned into that, but anyway, uh, yeah, I can understand. It's just a matter of taste. There's no accounting. Oh, Maya said night flyer. Uh, that's, oh yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Night flyer. And I like these movies. People are met. These are, I like these movies. I, I, I don't know what it is. It's something about Stephen King's stuff is like, I mean, I read the Tommy knockers cover to cover and I liked it a lot. I, I, I don't know. I think for me, I felt like everything kind of had one flavor a little bit, but that's, you know, I don't know. Do you think it's like the same recurring kind of, um, set up? Yeah. Yeah. There are themes that just be quick because we talked about this before, just to, not to rehash because we don't hit on it too hard, but you and I have talked about, um, this set up the scenarios where it's something outrageous and scary and, and supernatural happening to a group of people. And a lot of his stories about how these people behave. Yeah. Yeah. Storm of the century. Uh, is it the dome? Like, you know, basically they're, uh, a group, uh, the mist and then, you know, right, right, right. And I read that too. I read that. Yeah. The real, the real monsters are the people, not the, not the monsters and how monstrously we behave with each other. And so you can see that a lot in his writing. It's like, okay, but, uh, but then, you know, and then there's some that the one that he didn't like famously was the shining. It's like, yeah, he hated the shining, the Jack Nicholson show. The, the, and he liked the one with, uh, it was one of the guys from wings, uh, it was the star. And he said, no, that it was a TV series. Like that, that's how it should have been done. And it's like, right. Which nobody liked that. The audience didn't like it. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just different. But, um, no, so it's a different way of doing it. And it's like, you know, as far as the shining goes, that, that is more psychological and it was, uh, scary for its own reasons. So astonishing legends is brought to you by progressive insurance, fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switched their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds because progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates potential. Savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. All right. Quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for, or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress. Less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Success starts with your drive and American public university is here to fuel it. With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward. Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, our programs are designed for people who never stop. You bring the fire, APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu. Hi, I'm Jennifer, and you're listening to Astonishing Legends with Scott Philbrook and Forrest Burgess. Now, back to the show. All right, so I think we have a guest here, if he's ready. He is ready to give me a thumbs up backstage. So this is going to be Michael Kishbuker, who has been a guest of our show before, who worked very diligently to write and do the research on the wizard clip. And he also sent some questions in. He's a member of the ARC as well. So I'm going to bring Kish on stage here. Kish, are you there, sir? Hey, guys. Hey, how are you? What's going on there today? Working on a chapter of my next book. Oh, okay. Can you let us in on any hints here? Tell me what these three books have in common. Oh. On for the skinwalker. Yeah. Alien contact. Top secret UFO files revealed. See, those three have something in common. All three of them describe ranches where very similar activity happens. It's always a ranch. Have you watched Beyond Skinwalker Ranch, like the Bradshaw Ranch? I have not. Actually, I'm avoiding them on purpose because I don't want it to take more. Oh, yeah. Totally understand. Yeah. Well, you sent some questions in. Do you want to ask us your questions directly? Sure. Now that the AL Productions has a paranormal bookshelf, have you considered adding a publishing arm to the company? Ah, a publishing arm. I would absolutely be interested in doing that. I guess just with – it would be a bandwidth question for us, I think, in terms of managing it. Also, a complete lack of any experience or skill set associated with publishing. Well, you need somebody else. Nice. It's like – right. Shannon LeGrow and – I can't remember what her partner's name, Greg. And they've done End of the Fray Publishing. It's like a lot of great titles. It's like these stories and these authors need to be seen somewhere. I'm so glad they're doing it. I think Scott and I would love to do that as part of our umbrella and just have involvement with that. But we'd have to – we need a manager. We need somebody who was taking it over. We just kind of like pop in like, how's it going? Good? Okay. We'll see you later. I feel like I can edit copy because it's so similar to editing film that I used to do. Like, I can do that part of it maybe. Not for grammar though. I could do it for structure assistance or looking for repetitive things and typos and maybe say, oh, well, this chapter should come earlier, I think, or whatever. But that's really time-consuming work. Like, you know, as you know, because you are published, I don't know – if someone came to us and said, hey, I'm already doing this, let's all shack up together and turn it into something, I would absolutely want to have some meetings about that for sure. Well, I just happen to be – so what I was working on tonight was an interview of Patrick Weege, who runs Anomalous Books. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah, very cool. That's awesome. So what's – do you have another question? You want to do one more? Sure. Although I have observed Scott trying to gather EVPs in the past, I've actually never been on a ghost hunt, so what am I missing, Forrest? Oh, well, it's pretty exciting, I would say. I mean, this is what I was thinking about. I mentioned a little bit of this on a dead letter office, I think, because it was talking about hauntings and haunted places and what you do. It's like there's – when you go on a ghost hunt – and speaking of which, there's a question from Roger Pingleton, a good friend, who's – Roger and Jill are the ones who have really taken me on all the ghost hunts a few years ago, and they know what they're doing. And they have a lot of experience, and there's a lot of tips and tricks that go with it. And, you know, I always say it's a lot like fishing in a lot of ways. You're out there, you're trying different pieces of equipment, lures, and you get nibbles sometimes. Sometimes there's no bites at all, and then you've got to switch. You know, you try to go to another location, and then sometimes you see that elusive fish out of the water, and when you do see something, it is – I think that's one of the reasons people do fish is that you don't know what's under there, and suddenly it's a mystery. You're fighting with something, and then there it is. And you can see it, and you can smell it. It's in your hands. It's a lot like when you see something supernatural. And so with me, it's like what I've experienced is a lot of small things, because I would say that there's two levels of experience or experiences when you go, is that you have some gear. You've got your REM pods, your recorders, your infrared cameras, your full-spectrum cameras. You've got all this gear that you can use, and you may not feel anything, but like suddenly you'll ask a question. It's like, is there somebody here with us? And then all the REM pods go out. Like, well, that shouldn't happen. You'll get an EVP that's not just random words. It's an answer to your question. So there's some context there. The little light-up cat balls can happen. You know, so there's a lot of information you can get, and it's pretty exciting. Those are the nibbles. But like, I haven't, I think, seen anything except for that one time. I said, that's the mystery of it. The trickster part, when I did see something at Waverly, I thought was a guy walking in front of, oh, geez, who's Scott knows that story better than me. But like, I thought he was walking down the hall. And as we were, as we were wrapping up and, uh, me thinking like, oh, the other part of the tour is coming and I could swear I, I saw it at the time. And then it has me questioning because no one else saw it. And so then you question like, well, did I see that at all? Did I really see that? I did at the time. I know I did. And so you start questioning yourself. And so it's a lot of stuff like that, but I have seen some things that shouldn't have happened. Um, and it's not a ghost per se, but like, that's the exciting part. It's like, uh, then it is at the Randolph asylum where there's a little girl's room. Um, uh, she was there cause she was a, an orphan, I believe. And she was like 10 or 11, maybe 12. And so a lot of people put dolls in there and flowers for her. And we walked by, uh, once and a lot of people from the tour before days before had left balloons for her. And then there was a little bit of an event where flowers were left in the hall unexplained. And it's like, okay, there's only six of us that wasn't there before. There's no guy here. You know, it's not Scooby-Doo. There's no guy trying to sell the motel, you know, sneaking in with a costume. How did the flowers get here? That's very strange. And it's like, okay, um, we didn't see them materialized. They're just there. That's unexplainable. That was exciting. And then I looked at the room and now all the balloons are mostly deflated. It's like, that doesn't happen in 30 minutes. Like, but I was pretty sure. Then you start questions like, were they really all filled up all the way where they have, you start questioning your reality. It's not frustrating. It's just, it's just fascinating. So that's what you're missing is like, when you get, uh, you get an answer to your question immediately. It's like, uh, the last one was at the Canton theater. And I, you know, it takes a lot of time to go through your data as well. So it's very time consuming or can be because you're listening to hours of footage or looking through photos and videotape. But I asked, is there anybody here in the balcony with us and listening in there, I heard Anthony. It's like, okay. So, you know, it's like, uh, I didn't ask, is anyone here? And I heard the word hot dog. Like, it's just, it's an answer to your question. You've got a name. He told you who was here. It's like, Whoa. So that's pretty interesting. And then you start asking, you know, are there kids here? And the little cat toys start lighting up or the REM pods, but you're not. So that's one answer. And it's kind of interesting, but you're not seeing anything. You don't have a ghost passing through you. Other people have experienced that where that's a real physical thing. And some people have been okay with that. They think it's cool. And some people are freaked out. They, they don't ever want to go back. So, uh, there's a whole range of experiences that you can, um, uh, you know, that are available. And then sometimes you go there and it's just like, it's a cool old building, like nothing happened all night. It's just, you hung out with your friends. You talked, you had some food. It was, it was a lot of fun, but nothing really major happened. And then sometimes you see something that makes you never want to go back. Isn't that right, Scott? Yeah. And, um, one of the things I want to say for us is it, this plays into another question from Zed's dead that's later down our list. It says, Forrest, uh, this is on item 49 on our spreadsheet, but when you were at Waverly and you saw that figure walk into that room that had no other way out, approaching the room to investigate and then arriving in the room and finding there was no one there, what was the feeling? And, uh, Zed wrote, I've had some fairly inexplicable experiences myself. And there's typically a feeling involved. You seem a lot less prone to agitation than myself. And then there's a, a laughing emoji. And it says, quote, uh, the roar from the heavens in the wide open desert was weird, but I've never had a paranormal experience in quote, which is that other story you tell about the roar. Yeah. And so, and Zed, I'm with Zed on your like, nothing paranormal has ever happened to me, but you actually have some pretty good paranormal stories. But here's, here's the thing that that's why I'm saying there's, there's levels. And of course, you know, same thing with EVPs. There's class A, class B, class C. Was that just mumbling? Was that my stomach grumbling? I don't know. Did it sound like a word? And so there's a lot of interpretation that, uh, you could be open to, but in thinking back as far as like Waverly, so we were with, and I'll tell you just briefly here. So we were with James Willis and his, uh, his wife, Steph and some other folks, uh, Roger and Jill, and there was another tour going on. So there was another four or five other people in different parts. And, you know, they hadn't, uh, uh, I was at the group that was kind of the more experienced ghost hunters and the other folks I think, uh, had done it before maybe were not really, uh, you know, they weren't, didn't have, they were just wandering around enjoying the, uh, the, the ghost hunt. And so as James did his experiment in the hall where he was trying to recreate a doppelganger experience where that was fascinating. He was just sitting in the hallway years ago before that. And somebody, you know, with the camera going and somebody saw him go into a room and they said, well, he was wrapping up. I said, what are you doing? You're, are we wrapping up? It's like, no, you went into the room. It's like, no, I, I didn't. I've been standing here the whole time. His other, other people saw him or they thought they did walk into the room. So that was a freaky experience for him. And he was trying to recreate that. And this is my point is that we stood there. He said, we'll do this for about 15, 20 minutes. So we, we, you know, because it's a big building, you want to check out every different fishing hole you can. So he was standing in the hallway with his headlamp on, just standing there. We were all very quiet. Nothing happened for about 15 minutes. I had the full spectrum camera going on him and it's like, well, nothing's really happening. So, uh, you know, we started talking, he's like, okay, you want to kind of wrap it up? It's like, yeah. I said, uh, and this is the part where he said, uh, uh, are there other people? Cause we could hear other people kind of coming down the hall and you should announce yourself so you don't spook anybody. But, uh, so he's coming down the hall and he said, Hey, is the other group getting here yet? And that's where I was turning off the camera, of course, and trying to pack up the tripod. I looked up and that's where I just kind of glanced up. And I thought I saw somebody cross in front of him and go into the room. And it was so mundane. It's just like, I don't like a guy in his late twenties, early thirties. I, you know, I don't like full colored, like a blue shirt and shorts, uh, high tops, you know, Chuck Taylors or something. He just kind of crossed in very nonchalantly. And I didn't seem to think it was somebody from the other group. It just, it didn't look like it was a guy with a shirt or a black shadow. It was just a dude. And it's like, well, they're already here. So yeah, you know, they've kind of not contaminated the area, but we should pack up and go. And then I looked up and he said, uh, you know, yeah, somebody's crossed. He said, anybody else? And I thought some other people said, yeah, they're already here. So we didn't think anything about it. I packed up and, uh, and I think it was later. I just said, did anybody see that guy cross in front of James? I was like, well, he's looking down with his headlamp. And I said, no, none of us saw that. It's like, really? He's, he just walked into the room. And then I, of course I went into the room and he, there's nobody there and not down the hallway. And the, the, the funny part is as people are coming up and who, who are the less experienced, uh, we were kind of packing up and we hear this blood curdling scream. Scream from James's wife staff. It's like, okay. And then my first thought, like, we got something. And so you get the camera out, like, we're going to see something cool. And she, she screamed because this other guy was kind of creeping around, didn't announce himself. And he put his arm around the doorframe, like towards her. And so she's like, oh my God, there's this, you know, arm coming at her. And he's like, oh, I'm sorry. I should have said something. It's like, no, you don't do that. You know, you don't, not a haunted place. So that was a big laugh, but that was a real person. And then I asked them later, did I, you thought you guys said you saw something? And this is my memory. It's like, no, we didn't, we didn't say we saw anybody. We didn't see anybody. And that's where you question, like, did that happen at all? Was it just in my mind? Was he really there? Was he as a phantom or some kind of. And also waited until you were packing up the recording gear? Yeah, of course. That's the trickster. It was like, well, wait till he turns out the camera and now he's got the camera in the suitcase. You're about to close it. Dude crosses the hall. So there was no feeling. Like I said, it just like, it's just a dude. Okay, let's pack up. Cause I looked up and then kind of look back down because you got a lot of gear to pack up to, to move. And so there was no feeling the roar part. That was the only time where it's like, I didn't have any equipment. I was just looking at the desert with my friend, Brian. And, and, uh, that's what it just like the, we both heard it and it was loud. And it was like, if you bend to the zoo and you hear you're five feet from the lion and you can kind of feel it, that's what it felt like. And it's like, okay, if I'm at the zoo, yeah, I, I paid my admission to go hear that, you know, like, I want to, I want to hear the, uh, you know, the gorillas and the, uh, all the animals, uh, make their noises. And so that's where you looked up and it wasn't like a paranormal feeling. My first thought was like, where's this coming from? And how do we defend ourselves? That's the, it's like, do I have to run under the car? Do I have to get on top of the car? Can we get in the car fast enough? Does he have the keys? Uh, is the, do we lock the door? And so, you know, we're probably 20 feet from the car in the parking lot. And it's just like, you just look around and like, there's no rock that's higher than a foot tall. It's open desert. You're just like, where did that come from? And so, uh, again, it wasn't a feeling of something supernatural. It was just like, there's an animal out here. It sounded really big. And I just looked at, you know, I looked at my friend and he just said, we should go. And I, yeah, this is it time to go. And so, like I said, that was different, but I definitely heard that, uh, he did as well, but it was a more natural sound. We weren't big footing or anything where you hear, you know, people say like, oh, you hear the big foot call and it's very distinct. It was like, no, that was like a big cat, but it shouldn't have been there. And so when you think back on it, like, that's the only thing that was kind of weird, but I didn't have that, uh, immune, that ineffable feeling of like, it was down to the core, like seeing a black eyed kid. And I was talking to a friend, uh, as recently on text about that kind of thing where some kids have, uh, megalocornea and they have very large, as they're small children, they have very large, uh, corneas where when they're, when they're small, the whole eye can look black. And they were wondering, I was like, is that what people are seeing? It's like, yeah, I think people that see that have the black eyed kid or adult experience feel that like, oh my God, this is like the worst dread and horror and terror I've ever felt. And it's, it's in my spinal column, not like, you know, that kid's weird looking, you know, it's not like that. It's just, there's something that you, you know, it's immutable. You, you cannot describe it, but you need to get away right away. And so anyway, that's, that's kind of my experience. I've yet to experience that. I do wonder if I, I I'm curious, but then sometimes that never goes away from your life. You cannot unfeel that as they say. Yeah. I was, I wanted to ask Scott, did, did you actually get anything? I know we weren't ghost hunting. We were just taking like a hike to see some cool spots. Like this, I grew up 15 minutes from where pretty boy Floyd was gone down and some other locations. So we were at a, we were at an abandoned mill, I think is where you tried to do it from the 18 thirties. Yeah. We had, uh, uh, my gear had significant technical issues on that trip. Um, so I recorded the whole thing. I was so happy with it. The footage looked great. And I was using one of those, uh, sticks with servos that, uh, and it was balancing the iPhone and, uh, for the, and it had worked fine. And, uh, three or four prior cases, but the audio flat out did not record for our entire walk that day. And I couldn't get it back. And of course the stick, the thing, you know, just Chinese piece of junk, I think, honestly, but, but they have problems. We didn't get audio. So I didn't get to check for EVPs cause I didn't even have normal VPs. Like we had like no voices. It was such a bummer. Well, thanks guys. I don't want to monopolize all your time. I know. No, no, no. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for, it was nice to have, uh, have somebody get in here and ask their questions in person. So thank you. And Godspeed with the book. We can't wait to check it out. All right, folks. So let's get back to our sheet here for us. And some of these we've gone down on and we've managed to answer. We've kind of touched on it because we've just, or I do blab and blab and like, you're going to hit on some of the, uh, yeah, yeah, no, that's good. So I did. Let me just, I'm taking a look at where we are here. Oh, um, Melissa Larson asks, uh, I know the Dyatlov, uh, the Dyatlov pass episode really emotionally affected Scott at the time. Is that, is that the episode that still affects you most outside of the Sally house for personal experience for us? Has there been an episode that really hit you emotionally? And, uh, so for me, yeah, I, I did, I felt it was, as Forrest said, it was, it was hard for me reading about those kids who I felt like I could relate to everything that they were doing was like something I would have done at their age. And just the way they died is horrific. I mean, straight out of the thing, really just all the stuff that happened, excuse me. Um, in terms of being, you know, connected to other stories and sometimes, you know, we have enough shows now that I have to look back at our catalog, which I'm doing right now, uh, to, to remember what else left a mark for me. Uh, but Dyatlov is still one of the big ones for sure. Um, another one, not so much from an empathic, you know, empathy standpoint was the original Skinwalker Ranch series and what the scientists went through out there. Um, all of the things that they described still sticks with me to this day. The, the weirdness at that place is, um, it is one of those things that sometimes I'll find myself thinking about at night. Um, just about what's going on there. Um, what about you for us? Like what's, what's intense for you there? Uh, well, I mean, nothing's really, uh, while we were doing it, it's kind of hard to explain oddly, uh, because I'm, I'm kind of in a different than that. That's time with a few questions coming up here, but, uh, yeah, you know, just the family and personal life is, is, uh, is changed a lot for me. And so, uh, I've been in kind of a weird place for, um, the last year or so, uh, just, uh, doing stuff that you normally wouldn't, uh, normally wouldn't be doing, but it involves like care for other folks. And so, uh, when we did the max headroom one, there was, it had a really weird feeling of nostalgia for me. And like, uh, you know, you're not really your childhood because of course that was the eighties. I was, uh, I remembered all that, uh, uh, very clearly, but, uh, there was a weird feeling of that, of that strange nostalgia of like, uh, what you experienced then. And, and just, and just clutch cargo seemed very strange to watch. Like just, I, no, I didn't, I'm sure I liked it. It was, it was okay, but it's just like a weird thing. It was just all very strange. Like just the, the, the strangeness of it mixed with, um, mixed with nostalgia, what you remember from your, uh, again, not childhood, but just your earlier, you know, late teens and twenties. And so that has a lot to do with memory and how you're, uh, and how you're thinking about stuff as far as, uh, episodes. Yeah. I don't, um, like I said, nothing's really kind of stuck. I mean, there's things I remember, of course, in stories that, because that's more of my nature, just to, uh, collect stories and remember them and repeat them to people ad nauseam. Uh, but the, the one that was kind of, again, maybe why we don't do a lot of this, but like, uh, the Villisca acts murder story. And, uh, there's another question coming up about recurring dreams. I remember one as a, as an early, uh, child, uh, as a young child that was somewhat in a house like that, or some kind of Victorian house where something awful happened. And I just remember, uh, parts of it are just images, but I remember in the dream, it wasn't a nightmare. I wasn't upset. I was just like, maybe just kind of watching a movie. I shouldn't have been watching at that age, you know, like something again, something, uh, horrific. And so when we did that, it's just like, there was something, it's why I wanted to find, again, why I pitched this a lot to Scott because it is more true crime and it is pretty gruesome. Like I, there's, I want to know what went on there. I want to know what the story is. And then when you get into it, just how, just how gruesome it was and, uh, you know, affected the whole family and just how people, yeah, just how people, you know, the whole town, like there's now two, three hundred people outside gawking and that's just human nature, uh, you hear a lot about like, you know, there's some things that you kind of learn just culturally of around that time of 1911, 1912. Uh, you know, it's like, why are there so many ax murders? Because there's an ax at everyone's home. You know, it's like Lizzie Borden, there's an ax there. Everyone's got an ax. And so, uh, you don't need to bring an ax with you. You just pick one up wherever you're going to commit your crimes. Right. And the fact that he was never caught, we don't think. And it's just like, who was that? What's going on or the, uh, the ax murders of New Orleans and just, uh, you know, it's so there's all those have a similar thing, but just this affecting this family and just, you know, the, the weird stuff, like why didn't anybody wake up? There must've been noise. He got, you know, he cleared the first floor with the kids first and just also because there's children involved. And so, um, I wanted to know what was going on, but that one was just, yeah, just an odd feeling to that. And the, of course the place is, you know, notoriously haunted and having trouble now, I think, uh, with the ownership and ghost tours and just some, uh, things I've read, uh, about it. There's some problems now, but, um, yeah, it's just like, that was one that was just kind of like, you don't need to be covering that every day. Um, right. But I did want to know what was going on and it's, it's fascinating, but like, yeah, just, just a, just a horrific tale, uh, and, uh, and a good other picture of, or slice of life story about that time when, when people, I think associate that if you're, you know, from the States and you're older enough, you may remember the phrase, you know, the gay nineties. And so 1890s were like, okay, civil war has been passed. There's a, there's kind of a rebirth of stuff is before the great depression happened. And so it was, it was kind of a nice time. People are having fun again, enjoying themselves a time of relative peace. Of course, there's always trouble and turmoil, no matter what age and no matter what people say about like, oh, I wish I was back in this time. Uh, every time has its problems, but you know, so that was still kind of era around the turn of the century and things were changing a lot. So 1910, 19, you know, electricity is coming in and, uh, it's, so there's a lot of good stories and, uh, but again, there's always evil and horrible things happening. Uh, and, uh, I think it was just more shocking to people back then, but you know, people react to it differently back then and the attitudes are different, but now it's like, yeah, that was, uh, so that was one that, um, uh, I still remember, uh, quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was tough. All right. Here's the next one from Frankie. I know Scott is a Virgo that I am, but forest, please drop your star sign. The people need to know. Uh, what question is that? No, it's question 27. 27. Uh, oh yes. I am a, uh, Sagittarius, so I don't know. Uh, uh, I think something's fit with that. It's funny cause I do have a lot of friends that are, uh, some can read charts and do charts and have software and all that and have, have run those up. And then there's, uh, there's ones that are kind of very vague and, um, uh, you know, then you'll tell your people, uh, your friends who do, uh, who are really into astrology and know a lot about it. It's like, well, that's just your son's sign. You got to really work up a chart. So I've had it done. And I think a lot, a lot of that, at least to me and, uh, and also getting a psychic reading, it's like, there's some things that are right on. And then some things that don't seem like you at all. So that's a, I was going to tell you about in-depth reads of like, uh, and then some things are like, you like Saturdays. Like I think most people like a Saturday. Like, I think that's not, yeah, that's not really reaching, but. But some things have been kind of more spot on. So anyway, that's my sign. And, um, and there's a lot of people who would say like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah. You're, you're a sag. Like, and I do know something about it anyway. Oh, all right. So moving on here to Larry Freund, Larry, uh, what's the best advice you would give a new podcaster as far as research goes for topics? Um, which is, you know, that's an evolving question. It depends on what the topics are, but research is, um, it's changed a lot just since we've started in the past 10 years, it's changed a lot. And it had changed for us to be able to start, you know, the internet was like such a, uh, uh, uh, supply of knowledge that anybody could access. Uh, but you know, obviously there's, there's still, uh, a lot to be said for getting to local libraries and boots on the ground or talking to people who were present like eyewitnesses, uh, if you're doing like what we're doing these days, of course, you can make AI a part of it, but you can't trust the AI. Um, it's the, I think the most important part of research, at least if it's topic like our show, um, or a show like our show, I should say, or our genre or anything that requires research is you, it's all about your sources and how good they are and trusting them emphatically and not having them be secondhand, having them be firsthand or produced by people who are real live, uh, reliable resources or it's peer reviewed, uh, which is not always a stamp either, by the way, or it's researched. Uh, you, you just know where it's coming from as opposed to regurgitated, recycled either by humans or computers. It can get real sloppy, really fast. And if you don't have a discerning eye, all kinds of false information gets baked into what you're digging up. We generally trust, uh, we'll try to find a book because in my thinking is that an author has done a lot. Well, just, we just heard from Kish, you know, years, uh, a year, you know, a couple of years of research, uh, of really, you know, if they're worth their salt, really getting into it. Uh, that's why we like, we love Troy Taylor's books is that if there's a subject, you know, he's really, you know, he's gone through all the articles and the court records and this and that. So you can trust them to put a little more, uh, effort in it. That being said, the book is going to have a perspective. Usually, uh, we have, um, yeah, there you go. So you take it to do it. Well, it takes you three years of research to write, to research and write a book. Yeah. And see, it's like, I'm always saying to people like Kish and people who listen to our show, it, uh, we spend as much as three weeks. No, I'm kidding. Uh, some stuff like MH370 is going to take all summer to get to touch on half of, of what we want to dig up on it. So it's like, there's, yeah, it, it takes a lot of time and you could, yeah, you could trust that. But as I was saying, the book is going to have a perspective. Usually we've come across that in the cases of the entity. And, uh, I was trying to think of the, you know, there's, uh, Frank DeFellita, uh, was the author of one book and, uh, you know, it may not match a book is going to have a, you know, if you talk to the people that live through it, they're going to say like, well, you know, they got that wrong or we didn't like this or that. So, uh, so you, it, it, if you can, you know, try and peruse a couple of books or at least one good one that you trust. Like I said, if it's, if it, and you get to know the authors. Yeah. It's like a, it's a, it's a mind map situation where like you pick the thing you trust the most and that's your anchor. And then, but then you go out as far as you can and you get out to the really funky stuff, but you got to point out that it's funky, you know, and, and, uh, just be discerning about that. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Yes, potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse, being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question because both are recipes for chaos. 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With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward. Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, our programs are designed for people who never stop. You bring the fire, APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu. I'm Glendale from Love, Glendale. And when I'm working on my art, I'm listening to Astonishing Legends. Now let's get back to the show. Nancy Priest, long-time listener and somebody we know very well, she asked, which paranormal topic would you find most satisfying to find the definitive answer to? And I think for me at this point, it's probably Amelia Earhart. Like, I'm ready to solve that, understand what happened. There was another question. You know, a few people had asked about her and I was, let's see, I wanted to find the other question real quick. Let me just search that up because I'm going to address more than one at a time here. It was, we already talked about Sue. Oh, and then there was, bear with me, folks. Oh yeah, what is the current thinking? That was also from Stephen Keklack on the disappearance and stuff like that. I do know, and other folks were asking, you know, what the, oh, earlier when somebody said, what's the latest? I have to mention, uh, I think it's Tony Romeo who's, you know, thought he had found the plane off the eye, one of the islands that they thought she might've crashed at and, um, had done sonar and stuff. And he, uh, he was on our friend Chris Williamson's show and, uh, Tony's a great guy. He, he, you know, was like announcing that, well, we, we, we think we might've found it. And I think that even the family got involved, but it was a very, it was at a very significant depth. And when they went down there, it turned out, I think to be rocks that were kind of in the shape of an airplane. Um, so there's just, um, there's a lot of, a lot of things to look out for there in terms of that. But like, I, yeah, for me, Nancy, I would want to know about Amelia and, uh, of all the things we've. Um, yeah, and, and there's nothing I'm going to address later as an answer to another question that falls in that category. What about you, Forrest? Well, I think, uh, uh, yeah, speaking of Earhart, uh, there, well, that was, that's one where I, I do have an opinion or, or one of the theories I think is pretty solid. I think now, uh, since our involvement, um, uh, is that there, there's probably two options and one that she had, um, uh, you know, one that she had. Uh, some doubles, uh, there's two separate missions going on at the same time. Yeah. So what's at Buka is either her plane, but I think it could also be the, uh, the, uh, kind of the shadow plane that was following her or because it, that makes sense as far as, you know, as an operation goes. I think there were two planes. I think one went down, uh, and they took it to Saipan and destroyed it. And I think the other one's in the water at Buka. Yeah. I think that, yeah. So that's, that one, like I said, that got a pretty good line on that one. I think as to what happened and, uh, because I, I tend to believe all the eyewitness accounts of the, uh, Chamorro peoples, uh, of, uh, of Saipan and, um, you know, what they witnessed, it's like, you know, it's that many people. It's like, I can give some weight to it. And, uh, and, and also, uh, the, the folks that were there, uh, that, uh, you know, uh, Jim, um, neighbors, uh, Thomas, uh, he was the post post who's at the postal unit there who saw the plane being flown neighbors, Gomer pile. No, no, I know. He made that joke back then. It's still, it's still not good. Uh, but yeah, no, all the, uh, Julius neighbors, sorry. Julius neighbors is the, uh, he's the one who took the message and delivered to the colonel that was decoded saying we have Earhart's plane. So anyway, that's not such a big thing. I think for me, it's the big, the biggest question of all is like, yeah, what's, what's going on with the alien stuff? Yeah. Okay. That's where you're at. Because, well, because it's all, uh, like I said, it's, it's the, and I've said this before a lot and folks don't care and I understand that, but it is the question, uh, because I think it's, it's also possibly connected to everything else. And we're talking cryptids, Bigfoot, possibly ghosts, spirituality. It just, it, it's all wrapped up into basically, uh, our existence of what, uh, of what's happening and what we're about, who are we and where are we going? So, uh, I think that's the one that, uh, I don't think we're going to get all the answers beginning. I think when you get that deep, it is like, there is something that is a strong, uh, immovable force that is, uh, not letting us find out everything. And I don't know if it's the trickster, it's not necessarily the trickster element, but like you're not meant to, this is not our purpose is to know the whole, all the secrets of the universe right now. Yeah. So one day I would like to, but it's just not, you're not going to, you're going to have to live with that question. So, uh, but that's it. Yeah. So the first step, and we may find out about this in my lifetime is, is what's going on and the drips and drops here about what's, what is out there and how does it affect us? And, you know, and just that kind of phenomenon, because it is so wide ranging. And as Kish was talking about like Skinwalker Ranch, it's not just orbs or craft, it's all kinds of phenomena. What's that twisted tubular metal thing that just appears? Why is it tied in with a, you know, an ancient native American, uh, legend of, uh, you know, people turning themselves into these, uh, you know, supernatural beasts. Like what, what's, how is that connected? And I think there is some connection. And so, yeah, that's what I, that's where I would leave. All right. Uh, here's a business question from, uh, my friend Anson Birch. He and I used to work together, uh, my former life, uh, when I was editing commercials in New York. Um, he was a producer at the time and, uh, he's, he's a supporter on Patreon. I don't know if he's watching tonight, but I want him to see this later. If he is, it says the business has changed so much since you started at first, it was two guys talking about the paranormal. Now you are part of a larger podcasting and paranormal community with a network of podcasts and the pressure to continue cranking out content. I'd love to hear about what's changed both in the business, your perspective, your status in the community and your roles in producing both your podcasts and others on the network. Um, my like sort of quick answer to this is, you know, yes, the business has changed radically. The thing I always used to think about, and I've mentioned this on the air before, was when we started, we had to explain to people what a podcast was and how to find it at first. Then it went from, we didn't have to explain what it was anymore, but we still had to explain how to find it. Then it went to everybody knew what it was and how to find it and thought it was stupid that everybody had one and people made fun of you a little bit or rolled their eyes at it. And then those people that made fun of us and rolled their eyes at it all started their own podcasts. And then it went through a thing where, um, I don't know if it's COVID affected or whatever, something happened with the economy of it and the advertising revenue. And it took, uh, for the past two years, really, maybe almost three, it's been, uh, kind of rough. It's, it's a different game from what it was when we started. Um, so I'm glad that we were established. I think Forrest would say that too, or we, we might not have survived it. The C's are still a little rough, but we're, we're hanging in there. Um, and, uh, the models change. So the interesting thing about this from a business standpoint, and, um, I, I, you know, I'd like for people to hear this too, because we get a lot, we get comments on Spotify, especially, I love the ads or to me as this ad and, you know, live reads versus whatever. And first of all, that is how we support ourselves between that and Patreon. Those are our two primary forms of income. Uh, merch is negligible and, uh, any other income really is negligible. There's just really, we're, we're, it's pretty limited. And, uh, we have a team of people, really, really good people that we'd like to keep and, uh, and pay fairly, uh, as well as ourselves. We'd like to pay ourselves fairly because it's our full-time jobs. Everybody else, uh, that works for us has other gigs in addition to working for us. They're freelancers for the most part. And, um, so there's, there's a lot going on there, but it takes, it takes advertising income to support the show or Patreon support as well. And, or both of those really working together and the ad revenue for a long time, it was the live reads where we are talking about, we, you know, we get samples of the product, which is awesome. We get to check it out and then we talk about our experience with it on the air and that's called a live read. And those, um, have, uh, more beneficial rates for our business model than the digitally inserted ones, which is how radio works. There was a thought that the live reads would always be the preferred thing, but it turns out for whatever reason, it could be because the ad agencies want to have more control over the messaging, um, and they want to produce their own things or, uh, control over the, um, the propagation of the ads and where they go. And this, by the way, also plays into not just Anson's question, but, uh, Chris, uh, DiNapoli also asked a similar question about the ads, you know, talking about how many ads were in, you know, sometimes it was in the wrong language or, uh, things were a little weird. So what happened is there's a merging technology that's placing the digital ads into the show and, uh, it's changing rapidly all the time. And there's a couple of, I think different machines that are running it. I heart radio has one of the main ones. And then there's other ones too. And the reason I don't know a whole lot more about it and I would love to, is because for us as a podcasters, it's kind of a black box. They don't tell us a whole lot about how it works. There's like a marketplace on the backend and advertisers bid on it. And the way that works is, uh, when you hear local ads on your shows, which I hear on other podcasts that I listened to as well, it's because they know the IP address and they're like, oh, well, this is in North Carolina and right up the street. This is this company. And the way that they figure that out is usually it's an I heart radio by where somebody, a local business has bought radio commercials in a small marketplace nearby. And then I heart radio says, Hey, we can also get you into all the homes of people who are listening to podcasts in these three counties. Uh, we have the IP addresses. So they, when the IP address comes up and you're listening and it's like, oh, Hey, this person in my case lives in Greensboro and there's a town not far away called Thomasville. And there's a roofing company there. I hear ads for when I listen to podcasts. So that's probably happening to you folks as well. So the digital insertion ads in all of the shows you listen to, not just us, you might hear more of those than you do the live reads. And the reason for that is their revenue is a fraction of what a library that is. So it takes more of those to make the same amount of money. So, uh, there's that. Then the other thing that's happening is some platforms will put ads on our shows that we don't see any revenue from in exchange for the, for being allowed to be on their platform. So Spotify has something similar. I don't even understand the deals are changing all the time. And the other thing that happens is when we do a live read, it goes into the show and then a Spotify premium user, here's our show, but that's baked into our, they're going to hear our commercial anyway. We can't do anything about that. Spotify does not give us an option to post a version without commercials for premium users. So there's really a lot of stuff that we don't have any control over. We're just trying to get by. So that's kind of, that's kind of how all that works. And a lot of people put a lot more ad markers and run more ads than we do. We actually try to keep it pretty light, but by the same token, our team is like eight or 10 people and, uh, we're not, we're not necessarily top heavy. Everybody is really amazing. And as far as I'm concerned, they're all underpaid. So we're just trying to get by and keep everyone happy. And that's why you hear ads on our shows. And those of you on patron or patrons or on Patreon, you get the benefit of not, uh, of not having to listen to those because what, uh, your donations help offset the, that cost. So that's just how our model works. And, um, we don't, like I said, don't have a lot of control over it and don't always know how it's working on the backend either. We just have to keep producing content that hopefully people want to hear and that will attract a larger and larger audience. So that's my quick, uh, the quickest answer I can give there for you, Anson, and also for you, Chris, about how that all works. And yes, Chris, there are more digital ads at the end of the show, because that's something that kind of everybody does, uh, to get the, the digital insertion ads at the end of the show. That's a little bit like, we got to take it where we can get it. Um, and that's how, uh, that's how we pay our rent. Um, okay. So, uh, we have a minimal ads compared to, uh, so many other podcasts. Oh, that's very nice. Uh, to say for you to say here, I'll leave that up for the rest of the show. Um, no, just kidding. But thank you, Maya. Appreciate that. Um, looking at, uh, let's see what else here. We have a question from, uh, uh, let's see, uh, Sarah's a religious question. Uh, if you believe in the idea that we all go to another plane when we die and we are more or less in our original physical form, uh, and she parenthetically put, thank Christian heaven, what age will we be? If all that have gone before us are also there, what age will they be? If we choose an age where people weren't in our lives or they've forgotten or still accessible to us, uh, congratulations on, uh, I guess, keeping her pondering that. So, um, that's an interesting question. I don't know about age in the persistence of the soul and all of that. I do wonder about that though. It's like, why are you seeing children? Are you seeing, um, what, you know, what's going on there? Like, uh, uh, well, people joke about that. Why don't you see any caveman ghosts? Right, right. And then on the show goes there, there is a caveman, uh, or a Viking. You know, I think, uh, I think there's, uh, variables that happen. And again, nobody knows cause we're still alive, but, uh, from what people have experienced, uh, within my own family, seeing, um, uh, my grandfather seeing a, uh, somebody who is deceased, uh, uh, that he was very close to because he was very, uh, torn up about it. And he saw him and he was like, he was a little younger. Uh, he was, um, uh, you know, he was, uh, in good health. I think generally there's a form that's that maybe that you can or cannot choose to appear in, but it's a little like the matrix is your residual self image of how you would like to be, uh, seen or how you appear. And, uh, like I said, in, in, in good health or, uh, a little younger, uh, not five years old, perhaps, unless that's, you know, uh, that's the age that you, uh, you passed away. And so, uh, I don't know, it's just, I, you know, actually Scott and I were talking about and, uh, Miranda Merrick actually sent me a, um, a link to somebody who I'm very interested in, in interviewing, uh, who's a hospice nurse. And so I've been watching a few of those videos and talking about people and I didn't know there's a term for him. It's called visioning where a relative who's passing often claimed to see, uh, a loved one or friends come to comfort them and how, what's it different people will say. And I, I just loved all her answers because she's just very objective about she could look, this just happens. It happens so much. It's in hospice textbooks, right? That is just, uh, that this happens to most families. And so I think it's important to talk about. Yeah. And so, um, uh, the deal is that what I like her explanation is people say like, oh, that's just the drugs you're on or, uh, you know, the medication or they're not getting oxygen or, or it's, it's ICU psychosis, which is a thing. And, uh, you know, or they're delirious. She goes, look, we've done this, you know, years and years. And so many, and all these other hospice nurses have, we know what psychosis looks like. We know what delirium looks like. We know what, uh, ICU psychosis looks like, or, you know, in, in that point, a lot of times you're not even on medication anymore when you're in the final stages of active death. And she says, this is something different. And every hospice person will tell you that. And the, one of the main differences is that it's like, they've seen, you know, people get paranoid, they get, uh, frightened this and that. She says, one thing about it, it's always comforting, always. They come to visit you and it's like, it's pleasant. They can, they're talking to people you cannot see. And they'll say like, oh, so-and-so came to visit me and, uh, you know, they'll describe somebody. So it's hard to relay like what they look like, but obviously I think it's how they knew how the, the dying person knew them or last remembers them. And also partly how that person wants to be seen or appear to them. And so what I have heard of people relate, uh, you know, that they seen visions, they, they would, and also one of our friends, I'm not going to say his name, but he saw, or his dad also saw somebody, uh, who had passed away appear. And he's like, yeah, he was much younger, sometimes in their military uniform. If they were, if they were in the military, because that's like at your, your fittest and, uh, and how you want to be seen and, and something you're proud of. And so there is something I think that is maybe chosen like that and not, you know, sickly, you don't appear as if you were, you know, when you're in the hospital or with a terminal illness, it's as you were younger. So anyway, great question. Like, I don't know, um, what age I think. Yeah. Like I said, I think there's maybe a combination of how the past loved one wants to be seen and then how that person recognizes them. And so, uh, with our family, it's just, yeah. I just remember, uh, you might talk about this if we, if we do get to talk to her, it's just that my great grandmother did the same thing. She says, uh, oh, you know, uncle Juddy came to visit and say, well, grandma, he's, you know, he's been dead for like 30 years. She goes, I know. So, and she had a, she, it's also a moment of real lucidity. Yeah. Uh, and so, uh, but they were all just very welcoming and comforting. And so, uh, but that's, you know, like I said, it wasn't him as a little kid. It was something where as, as adult, she recognized him, but he was in good form. So there you go. Uh, yeah. All right. So, uh, Trish asks, uh, Trish, uh, who's, uh, very active on Patreon says, uh, where, where at an age, uh, where at an age, the thought of death, uh, should be thought about. I prepaid my cremation, any thoughts on what you two want done? Now, this might be personal for you, Forrest. I don't know where you're at. I'm, I'm interestingly for me, I used to have a real, um, biological aversion to my body rotting away in the ground. I was like, I'm not interested. Like, I just was like, I don't want it. And then I was like, I want to be cremated and have all this control over where my ashes go and everything. But I've since read a lot of things about, you know, not that I'm like a spastic. Oh, you're not going to do that. You're not going to be. Oh my gosh. No, no, no, wait, let me finish. Let me finish. I'm not, I've just read a lot about how bad it is, uh, for the environment, all the burning and all of that kind of stuff. And then there's the other thing. I don't know if you've seen that documentary on Netflix or I think it's Netflix about the home that was like co-mingling everybody's ashes and all that. It was like, you know, and taking jewelry by the way, horrific. Of course. Um, so there was a lot of stuff going on there. Um, I, so lately I've been a little bit more like, I'm not positive. I want to be cremated. So I, but I don't know what I, I, what I want to do. I don't, um, I don't know that I have it right now. I'm kind of at sea about it, I guess. Speaking of at sea, I'm sort of into like those things where they make you into like a little coral thing and put you at the bottom of the ocean and you become part of a, there's a whole thing that you're going to fall for a gimmick. See, and that's, what's going to happen. No, well, I mean, who cares? I'm, you're going to, I'm out of there anyway. That's the point. So you're going to end up as a Scott smoothie and they're going to dump you down the drain by accident. Well, for a fish, you know, or something. Yeah. Why not? Um, yeah, I, well, so you're kind of undecided at this point. I mean, at this moment, I'm undecided. It's if, if I, if God forbid something happens to me, there's going to be a little bit of a, somebody else is going to have to make the decision, I guess. But, uh, suddenly. Interesting. Well, what about you? What's your, what's your call there? Um, it doesn't matter to me that much. Like I say, you know, maybe, I don't know what I had in my wishes, maybe just something traditional, something old West where they just pile the rocks on top of you. Yeah. It was like the idea of like club foot. George is really still under that pile of rocks wearing his old West gear, uh, and his boots on, um, you know, but seriously, it's like probably, I don't know, just, yeah, just the regular, I think I have a plot already. Um, and, but if it's cremation, it's like, I guess that's fine. And two, I really don't, you know, no, I, and okay. So I, uh, I often, uh, joke about, but if I could manage it, I would is one I'd, uh, uh, uh, to be shot into a black hole. Yeah. Uh, that would be interesting. So somewhere else. So like you're, you're, again, I, I don't believe, I believe that there is life after death. I do believe that, uh, you're basically just a sack of meat and potatoes here on earth. And now you're, you're a, you're a, uh, uh, body having a spiritual experience. Not the other way. Angels driving trucks. Now, there's this saying from, uh, I think originally, you'll see other people have, uh, well, they'll credit it too, but I think it's, uh, um, that's a space from the Monroe Institute. Uh, it is basically, you are a spiritual being having a, a human experience or a body experience. Oh, yes. Yes. And then, uh, right. Yeah. So you're, you know, I believe that, but, uh, to be, like I said, if I, before I get too decrepit, I would like to go, uh, wander into another dimension, a portal, uh, just to go somewhere else, or it could be an interstellar. The planet, I always talk about that, the planet with the, that's not the water, the water planet. That is just, it's all just, yeah, it's just that got that, uh, 10,000 foot wave that, uh, just continually rolls. And so you're just kind of like swishing around the, you know, somewhere else, uh, very distantly, but, um, or just kind of, uh, floating into space is continually just traveling on. It's just, it's just a body, you know what I'm saying? Like, so for me, it's just like, okay, shoot it out into space. Let it keep going as long as it, as it'll go before it hits something or flies into a star or a sun, but it could be a lot worse. Then I guess that's cremation, but it could be a lot worse. So yeah, other than that, probably just traditional. So yeah, there you go. All right. Okay. You want to read Brian's question here? Uh, sure. Let's see here. Okay. So this, uh, so he has to do with alternate universes as we're talking about. I've long thought of Scott Forrest, Paul Glendhill, Micah Hanks, Jim Harreld, Richard Adam, Alison Jornlin, Ted Zweifel, Ed Valkola, et al, as the kind of Marvel superhero universe of high strangeness podcasters. And so I've wondered if there might be a DC universe out there as well. Yeah. Well, let's not forget Miranda Merck and Chris Kulari on that list. Oh, that's, yeah, that's Chris. That's everybody we know, really? Yeah. Well, it's, no, there's, uh, uh, I, I think I'm sure there's, uh, uh, if you believe an infinite number of different alternate universes, there's someone doing that somewhere. As we talked earlier to, to make the connection, there's somebody who's, uh, you're a form of you, maybe living out your other choices. You didn't make all the ones you passed on and they took those choices sliding doors. And, uh, those are all, yeah, all parallel kind of things going each way. And, and, uh, someone's finding that out all simultaneously and infinitely. So, uh, as far as the group, I always see us, uh, that's kind of like our little group here, of course they have their own, uh, areas, but, uh, when we, Scott and I were doing podcasts and, uh, getting to know other podcasters, I saw it a lot like the cannonball run where we're all in our little car. We got, you have Burt Reynolds and Dom DeLuise and, uh, uh, Raquel Welcher. They, you know, they're in the van, they're in the ambulance van. Yeah. And, uh, that's their group. And, uh, then you have, uh, Jackie Chan who is in the, uh, was he in the Nissan? Uh, no, it was an Isuzu impulse. Isuzu impulse. That's right. With the computer. And so we're all kind of in the same direction of the same race for, for doing these shows and finding out truths and, and research and, and, uh, and getting to know each other, but we're all in our little groups. And so it's like, uh, we did, uh, get to meet, uh, Connor, um, uh, Randall, uh, and, uh, you know, so like he's with, uh, uh, Dana and, uh, Greg Newkirk. And so like, it's like, that's their group and they have their, their peeps they run to. And sometimes we cross paths and then, uh, you have, uh, all these other podcasters and, you know, Ryan Sprague and his group of folks that he knows. And so, uh, what's great about this is that we're all usually pretty friendly and, uh, and we're cooperative and, uh, we like going on each other's shows. And so, yeah, it's just, but we're all in our little groups here. This is kind of like our little circle here. Yes. Uh, all of this race. Just to quickly answer your other question, I've never had a, a novel or anything that I've read really that has scared me like that badly or. Yeah. I mean, communion bothered me way before we did the show. The concept of it bothered you. Yeah. I just, the, the kind of it. Yeah. That's actually a good point though. That did scare me. The, the, like the nature of the, of what was happening to Whitley there when he first had those encounters in his house that I was like, okay, that's, this freaking me out too much, but now we've been exposed to so much of that. I, I think I could read that pretty easily, but, uh, before we started doing the show, I had more of a problem with it, which is interesting. Um, all right. So I, uh, Bobby Linton, who's a North Carolina resident here in the state with me. I live in NC. Have either ever have either one of you ever, uh, gone to the devil's tramping ground or seen the Brown mountain lights. Um, so to answer that question, I have not been to the devil's tramping ground, which is a, uh, local legend here in North Carolina about a spot in the woods, which is, uh, oddly, I think not far from me in Greensboro, maybe an hour. Um, and the, but I read about it growing up. I had a book on North Carolina ghost stories, and it was a place where supposedly like you, nothing will grow, you know, which is your sort of your kind of your typical UFO fairy circle thing, but there's no UFO connected with this, but that nothing will grow in this circle. And also with a rumor was when I was in high school, uh, which was in the late, uh, very late eighties. Thank you. Um, the, if you camped in it in the morning, you're, you would wake up in your tent and everything or your sleeping bag or whatever would all be outside the circle, but you wouldn't have noticed yourself being moved in the middle of the night. That was the legend there for a while that had, I'd heard that it had gone into sort of negligence and you couldn't go there anymore. But I, the other day I looked at it cause someone else brought it up to me and I think there's a website and you can book time, like it's on private land. I think. And now that folks are like, you can come stay, you know, give us a little money and you can spend the night. So, which actually sounds kind of cool. Uh, as the Brown mountain lights, we actually were planning a whole special thing there. Go see Micah Hanks, our good friend who lives pretty much right there. There we had a whole plan to go up there and try to see them and maybe do some recording and everything. And then COVID it was right before COVID hit super hard and that trip kind of fell apart. And, uh, so that, that might still be on the horizon. Um, uh, pun intended, but I guess, but, uh, we might get a chance to go see him. I have not personally seen the Brown mountain lights or any kind of lights like the Marfa lights or if North Carolina, the Mako light, which supposedly that's not there anymore. Cause they took up the train tracks where headless Joe Baldwin was looking for his head. Um, but I've never seen any lights like that. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse, being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Success starts with your drive and American Public University is here to fuel it. With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward. Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, our programs are designed for people who never stop. You bring the fire, APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu. I'm Sam and this is Astonishing Legends. Let's get back to the show. All right, so I'm skipping down here to Sam Gilmore's question. How have your thoughts changed regarding the paranormal since the two of you have started AL? For instance, I used to be a diehard believer in the extraterrestrial hypothesis, but now I'm leaning toward the ultra-terrestrial interdimensional hypothesis, which is more of a Kielian look at things. Um, I, I, you know, I guess my thoughts have changed a lot. Um, I, I, it's weird because I've, I've convinced that more cases are maybe fictional than I thought initially, but then the ones that aren't fictional are much more bizarre and frightening. The ones that are, um, that seem like real experiences, uh, when it comes to UFOs, when it comes to, uh, when it comes to like the actual paranormal, I would think, um, for me and this guy, I'm skipping down to a later question here for us, but this one comes from Greg Colton who said, besides the Sally house, is there a topic or guest that monument monumentally shifted your overall mindset or jumped it into another track? Uh, and if so, who was it? And so like tying all that together and the big question about like, how have you changed Sally house, all that kind of stuff. And yes, the Sally house, uh, I can tie this into another question too. Are there topics that you don't want to cover, which, um, or that you would never consider. And that's from Renee LaPierre or Perrier, excuse me. So, um, so for Renee and Greg, and also for, um, for this question from Sam about overall theories, I was thinking about this for us as we were preparing for this. And for me, I would say on the, on the ghost side of things and like the life after death or, or the persistence of a soul and all of that, that for me, episodes that tied together a new theory for me are going to be the, uh, conjuring Philip, the, the experiment, um, of, of creating a ghost from nothing that didn't ever actually exist as a human being. The siren call of hungry ghosts, uh, introduced a book introduced, a book introduced to us by, uh, Richard Haddam from Richard Haddam's paranormal bookshelf, our good friend, rich also vertical plane, another book introduced to us by him. Those two changed my perspective a lot. Then, uh, Forrest had just mentioned, had just mentioned Connor Randall, who was, uh, one of the developers of the Estes method, which you've seen if you've ever watched any ghost hunting, he and, uh, his friends came up with that with the listening to the static and getting the messages. And when you follow his rules about how to do that, there's something really bizarre going on there, which I think could connect back to EVPs and that sort of thing. And then the omniscient details that come up with stories like the bell, which and other stories that are similar to the bell, which all of that stuff circling back together with this, this prescient kind of all knowing knowledge mixed with bad information mixed with being able to actually create something from nothing like the Philip experiment, all of that stuff tying together has completely upset how I think about ghosts and the paranormal in general. So I would say for me, I am not thinking in the box that most people think in anymore. I'm not saying, Oh, look at me. I got a big new pants here. But what I'm saying is I'm coming at it from a completely new angle. When I hear a ghost story and it's tainted by all of those series that we have done that make me feel like, okay, first of all, you don't know who you're talking to. You don't know what you're talking to. I do believe that you are talking to something and I don't understand why it can know things that it seems like it shouldn't be able to know, but that can also have bad information, all of that tying together. And you can create this from nothing. What is going on there? And that, that thing in itself is interesting to me when you think about the people who are like all of it, including the aliens is just angels and demons. And it's like, it's, that's too, I'm just like, no, that's too easy or it's too pat. But in another way, it does, the more you look at all this stuff, it does start to feel like it is all one weird category, I would say like a really weird category, which kind of comes back to the ultra terrestrial, ultra terrestrial interdimensional thing. Also going back to the whole thing about how old are you when you die or when you, what, you know, what do you see? I think that we're, whatever it is that we are when we're not human is more akin to light or something that we don't understand. And I don't think age or the year means anything to it. Once it's no longer in the body, that, that your age is a function of being organic. I think once you get outside, time is completely different. Once you're not in your body anymore. So that's like, that's my, well, yeah, that's, that's, that's, uh, yeah, it's, uh, philosophical in that way because you have to, uh, you only, we only know from our perspective and it's like, and then how do you know you're wrong about something? How do you know you're right about something? It's just, it's opinion. So, uh, we can only go by anecdotes that we hear and try to make, again, I've always said this, like try to, uh, derive some kind of pattern about it. So when we first started or when I was young, it's like, and you're, it's like, okay, well, I think there could be UFOs and they're probably, you know, it's like nuts and bolts craft and they flown here from another, uh, you know, from another planet. And, uh, that makes sense, right? That's, they have to come from somewhere and another star. And then, and then you'll hear again, people knock that down. Scientists do. It's like, well, it would take, it would take 80,000 years to get here. It's like, you're thinking about some travel by rocket fire or something that even approaches the speed of light, not something that can fold space. Right. And, uh, you know, and warp gravitational, uh, space time. And so those ideas are expanding, but we like to think in those relative terms. It's like, again, I always love the, uh, the Fermi paradox. If like, uh, well, it would take too long for them to come from any other planet. But, and, uh, but, and that was being talked about by scientists and physicists at the lunch table at Los Alamos because they were seeing so many things from other places. Right. That just, the irony of that is just blows my mind. It's like, well, the only reason you're considering that is because you're seeing stuff from somewhere else. So as we've done the show, it's like, you, you learn a lot more about it. And I think hopefully you, you expand and then you talk to people. Oh, just like, uh, if people, again, I don't fault them for not caring about this stuff. It's just, you know, your tastes are your tastes and, uh, you, you may not have any interest because you've got other things going on and totally understandable. And it's just like how, uh, yeah, I just remember Jimmy Kimmel, it's some guest asked him like, well, do you believe in ghosts? It's like, no, because why don't you see any ghosts in the hospitals? It's like, you see, if you looked into it, you'd notice that there are a lot of ghosts in the hospitals and churches and any other place people gather theaters. And so, like I said, that's the extent that it makes sense to him because it's like, well, I, I've never heard of any ghosts in, in a, in a hospital. Somebody, uh, again, it may have been a bit of a drunken text, but somebody, somebody made a post like you guys are, and your Bigfoot is such a BS. You know, I've been a hunter out in the woods for 20 years and me and my buddies, you know, we've got hundreds of game cams up and we've been all up, you know, in the Canadian Rockies and we've never seen anything. It's like, yeah, I would guess, I would bet you, you haven't, uh, that doesn't mean they're not there. Again, that's that lack of evidence. And so you're, you know, you're thinking of it. It's just, it's just an animal. It's just out running around. And that makes sense. I get that. That's the North American woodland ape, uh, kind of thinking about that. I said, they're just very elusive and they're smart and they hide and they don't leave anything behind. And then you start hearing other stories of like people you kind of trust that are just very strange of like even, uh, somebody we've come to trust, uh, uh, Bob Gimlin. And, you know, this guy has done a lot of tracking and he said, he followed those tracks. And the last one he saw was in a kind of a flat rock because it walked, you know, Patty had walked through the Creek and he could see her footsteps up to the, you know, I think there's one wet footprint and then a half of a wet footprint. And then it just disappeared in a brush that was so thick. He said, that's a creature that size would have made a hole. There was no hole. There was no fur on any branches. It just kind of, and so you do wonder and your thinking expands. Uh, and so that's, that's, uh, uh, I think that's expanded our thinking basically of just like, there's a lot more going on. It's not all the rational things you can try and put a box, you know, around, uh, it or maybe there's so many things that we may not even be able to understand at this point. Yeah. And I would also like to add, uh, there's a lot of communications that we have outside of the show about things that we can't talk about on the show because people have asked us to keep it quiet. And, uh, among those are, uh, a pretty ongoing regular communication with two hunters who have experienced something hunting in the same area and they are still trying to figure out what happened and they're lifelong hunters. So, you know, when you talk about the other guys who, well, we've got game cans everywhere. And we haven't seen, these are, uh, two other folks that are like, Oh, I went there. I saw this. I heard that too. And now they're talking to each other. Okay. Where were you when this happened? And they're both freaked out and they've both spent, you know, hundreds of hours in deer stands and hiding and, uh, you know, bow hunting and all that kind of stuff. So they're seeing stuff. So anyway, whatever's happening there, not just with Bigfoot, but just in general. All right. This is technically our last question tonight. Um, from, uh, Maha, uh, Maya, Maya, Maya. See, I said it right the first time and then I screwed it up. You did. Oh, yeah. Quickly. So Dan was asking a question about an Oklahoma circus story. Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot. Well, that one, yeah, we skipped over that one. I'm not sure other than the ones we, we talked about, uh, that appears if you want to read more great stories, that's in, uh, Terry Lovelace's second book. Yes. Uh, about, uh, uh, Terry Lovelace's second book, uh, Devil Den, The Reckoning. And he has a lot of experiences, stories in the back. And one was the carousel. I think that was, that was happening. Uh, the circus carousel that the two little girls saw. Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. On the bank. And that was a very curious, we read that one on the air. It's very curious, but there's a, there's a lot more that are very chilling. We didn't get to. Yeah. That's the only one that connection to it. A good friend of ours, uh, Tricia had sent a, uh, a story to me about, uh, this is an Oklahoma circus graveyard. So this is, uh, where all the animals, and I think some folks, uh, who appeared in the circus, they're, they're buried there. So if you, uh, Atlas Obscura has an article on that under God's big top photos from the circus cemetery in Hugo, Oklahoma. No, not sure that that's, uh, that's the story you're talking about, but that story that appears there in, um, uh, devil's den, the reckoning is, I think that's the one with the, with the circus, uh, uh, basic carousel that appeared to be a carousel turned out to be something else. That's a very common thing in those stories. Yeah. We've heard about carousels and, uh, in other stories actually, which is interesting. And I don't know if they're, I don't know if they're going to hear this, but, uh, I did see a little bit of the discussion in our Facebook group about their talk. Somebody asked about that story. Where did it appear? Uh, the other thing I was going to say that I tried to make a post, I don't think it ended up there, but somebody was asking about black eyed kids and other stories. Those can be found in, uh, black eyed children and, um, David Weatherly's great book, black eyed children and strange intruders. And so there's a lot of stories that we mentioned, but we never, yeah, we never got into them, but we, we may have mentioned the tiles and the premises. But if you, if you're curious about that, check out those two books, uh, Terry Lovelace's book, they were, uh, somebody was talking about kind of questioning his, uh, it was like, it was too much. Like the second book, like, oh, now you're just milking it or, uh, you know, you're adding too much of the story. This is something that Scott and I talk about, about a lot about believability when people add, you know, it's that thing where people think that they added too much. They want to be believed. They had a real experience, but now they want more people to believe them. And so they, they fabricate more of the story, what the story is with, with Terry. And we did talk to him about this, that there was a lot of material and more to the story that he didn't include in book, the first book, because he thought it was too much. Yeah. Like he said, people aren't going to believe this is just too way out there. And it is, he, he admits it's like, this is pretty woo woo way out there stuff. But he, he decided to keep it out of the first book because he just didn't think it is too much. And after the book was fairly well received, he said like, you know what, this part of the story should be told. Also these other people he'd since been written to by hundreds of people. And he said, their story should be told and you don't have to believe them all. But he said that, yeah, it is. I realize how, how seems like you're adding too much now. But, uh, so I don't think it diminishes his credibility in my view. Um, again, when you, once you've got to know him, it's just like, I know this is the most incredible story, but this is, this is my truthful testimony to this. So. Yeah. And also I didn't, uh, I did, Lance had a question here. I didn't want to miss this one too, before we got to the other one. Has anyone, you experienced change your world views of how you live daily life? And, uh, if it's the Sally house, what, what, why, how, and why? And I, I guess I would say for me, yeah, I'm a little, when we, if I was to encounter something again, that gave me a feeling that it was going to be like a repeat of the Sally house or an involvement, or if I'm hearing from other people that there's something really intense going on, um, I probably, I would probably think twice about how deep I would get into it because the connection to the Sally house went on for months and months and I didn't want it to, and there was a lot of weird stuff that happened. And so, yeah, I'm a little more, uh, cautious about proceeding into those situations nowadays than I used to. So, um, uh, let's see. And so, and, uh, Maya was like, if you could travel to any destination in the world, either for personal or investigative reasons, what would it be any destination in the world? What do you think Forrest? Oh, uh, there's places I would like to, you know, obviously the pyramids of Egypt, um, you know, uh, let's see, uh, the, the, um, uh, just, just a lot of the great, uh, ancient, um, um, you know, monuments, uh, you know, Turkey has a lot of them, but just like, yeah, I just, there's a, as far as, uh, I don't know, I've, I've been, I was lucky to travel around the United States quite a bit, mostly for work. So you don't get to a chance to really take in stuff, but I have seen a fair amount, but I have not done a whole lot of world travel. So, uh, I can't really decide, uh, there's so many interesting things that, uh, I would like to check out, but, uh, you know, Graham Hancock style where you're going to see, uh, amazing wonders, uh, some places are, or do give you a little bit of pot, like Nan Madal is amazing to see, but a lot, some people have that carry home effect of, uh, that whatever curse there is, uh, following you home. And so I don't need that. Um, but there's, yeah, no, there's a lot of, uh, natural wonders. I, you know, I'd like to check out, but it can't be very specific. So what about you, Scott, is anything, uh, is it a bucket list thing? What do you, what would you? Yeah. I mean, it's like, you, you, you gotta be careful about setting a destination that doesn't actually exist or like, well, yeah. Is there a black pyramid in Antarctica or wherever? I was like, oh, I'd like to go see if that's the case. But one of those things that has a negative health effects if you're not careful. Yeah. I, I can say one place that I have been that sticks with me a lot. And I have mentioned it on the show before is the temple church in London. That's a Templar church, uh, right there in London, right off the Thames. It's a very sobering experience built, uh, in, I think 11, 11 eighties or something like that. Um, that was, there was something very, very spooky about it. And, you know, and when I went there, it was right when we were doing all the Oak Island stuff too. And I, yeah, Rosalind Chapel, yeah, Rosalind Chapel, I would like, that's actually a really good one. That's one I would love to see, um, from, uh, Holy, Holy, Holy blood, Holy grail. Um, uh, is that the name of the book? Oh, no, I'm forgetting. Yeah, that is right. Yeah. That's the name of the book. I think the blood, Holy grail, or is it the other way? But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, but there's places though, um, some natural wonders, uh, that people have described. Again, it's, I'm not sure I would feel anything. I'm usually, again, it does usually nothing happens to me in that fashion, but, uh, people say a Stonehenge, you know, they get a, uh, this, uh, earth frequency, uh, uh, Harman resonance, uh, you know, kind of a buzz there that there's, they're, they're feeling something a mystical tied to the earth, even Sedona, uh, Arizona, or some of these, uh, Southwest. Now I've been to Sedona, but I didn't go to any portals, but it was, Sedona is truly a magical place though. Yes. Did you feel any different? Was it, uh, I felt very relaxed. It was a Schumann resident resonance. Yeah. It's just that, uh, 7.83. It's a very something that you're. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very cool place. Um, well folks, that's going to wrap it up for us. We don't have any theme music for the AMA here, so maybe we'll get some and put it on here if we ever run this anywhere else. But I, I just would like, uh, for on behalf of both of us to say thank you to everyone for submitting so many great questions and for hanging out, hanging out with us. Thank you so much for, and, uh, thanks for all your support. We, uh, we wouldn't be here now doing this if you, if we didn't get it from you lovely folks. So again, thanks for your listenership, your support and, uh, and your love. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you. That's going to wrap up episode 316 of Astonishing Legends. A very special thanks to all of our amazing listeners. That's you. Seriously. We are both humbled and honored to keep this show going and we have big plans to not only keep at it, but grow it in interesting ways. Don't forget to come to Richard Haddam's live show in Washington, DC. If you want to see yours truly in person. I cannot wait. Visit richardhaddamsparanormalbookshelf.com and click on events for details or tickets. Our main show is back with a standard Astonishing Legends episode on September 20th, 2025, but always look for new episodes of the Dead Letter Office weekly on Tuesdays and keep an eye on our Patreon for more bonus content. Astonishing Legends is edited by Sarah Voorhees-Wendell at VW Sound. Our co-producer is Tess Feivel, who also leads our research efforts and manages our social media. And we're grateful for the hard work of our technical producer, Ed Vakola, behind the scenes. Special thanks to our announcer, John Bolin, for lending his voice to our shows. Hi, I'm Sam Hady. Hi, Scott and Forrest. Love your show. And I give permission to Astonishing Legends to use my voice however they see fit. So, to spell my name, my name is Jennifer, J-E-N. Our theme, which is available as a ringtone, was composed by Judson Crane at FounderMusic.com. All other music and sound design for the show is composed and created by Alan Caressia. Our logo was created by Tommy Beaver Design. And our animated graphics for social media and YouTube are done by Joshua Sloan at DeadStreetProductions.com. Many episodes have transcripts available. For ones that don't, you can request them by emailing transcripts at AstonishingLegends.com. Astonishing Legends would not be possible without you, our listeners. Visit our store at AstonishingLegends.com or interact with us and other listeners on Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, Discord, and YouTube. 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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Oh, hear that? That's the Spam brand. Singing you a love song. Spam. Sizzle. Pork. And mmm. Ever notice that feeling your worst also seems to happen at the worst time in the worst places? Like sudden nausea at 9 p.m. when you're out of town. Really? Now? Fortunately, with Hartford HealthCare's HHC 24-7 app, you can get answers, diagnosis, prescriptions, even speak live with clinicians anytime, anywhere. So maybe there's never a good time to be sick, but at least the best care is always there. Download the app at your app store or hhc247.org. Success starts with your drive, and American Public University is here to fuel it. With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward. Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, our programs are designed for people who never stop. You bring the fire, APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu. Hi, this is Danielle Robay. The host of Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, a podcast by Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. I'm partnering with Simple Mills, and I've just found my new go-to reading snack. Simple Mills Almond Flour Crackers. Think of this as a quick book style review because these crackers deserve it. The premise? A snack that feels light, not heavy. Made with almond flour, sunflower seeds, and flax seeds. Nutrient-dense ingredients your body can use, not empty carbs. And the taste? Crunchy, classic flavors that leave you feeling energized. For a good plot twist, try Pop'ems. Cheesy, airy, poppable crackers packed with veggies. Final verdict? These are a shelf staple. Find Simple Mills at your grocery store. This message is brought to you by Cologuard. 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