(Premium) Bodies, Craft, or Nothing: Inside the DC Press Club UFO Event

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This video of the being from Virginia, however long it may be, would be almost definitely smoking gun evidence. He's gone to a lot of great lengths to try and get a hold of this. And then you've got to imagine, if the video is genuine and does exist, whoever's got it potentially does fear for their life. The second video is, again, involving James Fox, is that Chuck Clark footage. I know Logan Paul has obviously seen it because he went with James Fox to view it, which is really frustrating because Logan Paul filmed it with a button camera and has then never released that footage. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. As always, my name is Andy, and joining me for a breakdown and look at some events that happened on the 20th of January in Washington, D.C. at the Press Club, along with James Fox and others. I've got a prolific user of social media, and X in particular, cameraman, researcher extraordinaire, and generally all-round good guy, Joe Murgia. Joe, welcome back. Hey, Andy. Good to be here. Great to be here. Thanks for having me again. Awesome. No, thanks for coming back on, Joe. It's been a while. And for anyone unfamiliar with who Joe Murgia is, if they're a user of X or social media, they're probably going to know you and subscribe to your posts. You know, Joe has over nearly 100,000 followers at this point, but like Joe just said before we hit record, only 50 people see his posts. He's in a fight with the algorithm at the moment, folks, so good time to remind you to like, subscribe, and comment on the video below, or if you're listening, leave a review. But listen, Joe, for anyone unsure or unfamiliar with your work, you know, who's Joe Murgia? Why are you involved in the UFO topic? So I guess the first UFO event in my life was going to see Close Encounters of the Third Kind in the theater. I was 12. It was 1977 or 78. And I loved it. I loved that movie. And, but, you know, and there was another show that was on television called In Search Of with Leonard Nimoy, which covered UFOs, everything paranormal, Bigfoot. I loved that too. But when you're 12 years old, 13, 14, you don't know, and back then there was no internet, so you don't know that you can actually read up on this stuff. I never thought about it. And so I just stayed interested until 96 when I stumbled upon Whitley Streber's Communion. I read it. I stopped reading it because I didn't realize it was some scary story about abductions. And I just put the book down, woke up that night, paralyzed on my couch, couldn't move. First time I ever experienced that. Some people say that's the aliens paralyzing you. Other people say it's sleep paralysis, whatever. It scared me. But I got out of it. The next day I'm like, you know what? Maybe that's a sign I should keep reading that book. So I read it. I loved it. And that was it. I started reading book after book after book. Eventually started my own email newsletter, which was paranormal and UFOs and also some politics. That was 90s, late 90s, 2000. Went back to work in television at Maury Povich in New York, which is a horror story, which I won't share. And then later on, you know, reading books, there was really not much going on compared to what's going on. Now it's just night and day. People don't realize. People complain and say there's really nothing new. If you wanted to see nothing new back in the 2000s and before, there were UFO conferences. There were books coming out. An interview here or there. A talk show would cover the topic. Sensationalized, but they would cover it. And then 2016, started hearing rumblings or early 2017. And then the New York Times article came out. I was on Twitter a little before that. I mean, I was on way before that, but I started using it for UFOs around then. And I just started going then. So that's basically who I am. And I started, I started out with woo. You know, I wasn't nuts and bolts. The very beginning was really, really a lot of paranormal, a lot of channeled books, which back then I believed everything I read. I had no filter. I had no discernment. So over the years, it's been almost 30 years now. So you develop that along the way. And so here I am now and I'm obsessed with the topic. It's hard for me to break away. Yeah. And do you know what? I am completely on board. Now, I'm, I was born in 1986. I'll be 40 in March. So clearly not been around this topic as long as you have, but I can completely empathize with the idea that folks who say there's nothing new going on. There's no news this week or this month, or it's been months since we had new whistleblower or someone's book coming out. Like going back to the 2000s, it was the same VHS as being released with the same cases. I would always go into newsagents and see like magazines and it'd either be the sensational kind of World Weekly News, Bat Boy Founding Cave, or you would get some paranormal UFO magazines. But there wasn't this constant flow and stream and interest that we have now. A lot of that down to social media. However, 2017, in that respect, changed the game with that New York Times article. And since then, I think if people really take a step back and look at this from a bird's eye view, so much has happened. So much is going on. And like you say, I think for those that remember the 90s and 2000s and the same stuff, it wasn't like this, you know. I mean, and fair play for pioneering the old email newsletter stuff back in the day. Salute you for that one. And there was an early adopter of AOL in the chat rooms. I won a sticker album on the Nickelodeon chat room back in the day. And funny looking back at how happily I was to give out my name and address as a young child over the internet to get a free sticker album. Nowadays, I would be horrified if my kids done that. But listen, yeah, Joe, lots to talk about. You've been on in the past. We've done a show around the Wilson Davis memo. You've done a lot of work on that. You've talked about that in the past. It may come up in the body of this show, but I think that's one people should go back and definitely check out. However, a huge event happened, as we record this, yesterday in Washington, D.C. at the Press Club on January 20th, hosted by James Fox. And it largely was an event focused on the legacy program, the crash retrieval program, the recovery of biologics or alien bodies. Let's call a spade a spade. All in your wheelhouse, especially that legacy program crash retrieval aspect of this topic. What was your take now, say, 24 hours on, on the event that happened yesterday in D.C.? I watched it again right before this. And I mean, it's I don't know if there was anything really new that was said for people who have watched the documentary, who have followed the story. But it's still impressive to see people in person sharing their stories or people explaining what they experienced via video. Some of the witnesses couldn't make it in because of visa problems. And the one person who came upon the crash scene, he says he came upon the crash scene. I think Marco, I don't know his last name. Carlos, Carlos, Carlos, Carlos, not Marco. He said that, you know, he started telling a story and then he started crying. So you felt bad for the guy. And it's like that kind of emotion is really powerful to see. And you had the neurologist, Italo, grabbing his arm, trying to comfort him. So, yeah, I mean, to me, I think the case happened. But before yesterday happened, I'm like to really take it to the next level. We need that alleged video that supposedly exists. And if you listen to James Foxx and I love what James has done, you think it might be coming out soon. Leslie Kane has mentioned it. But in 2022, we heard the same type of thing. And I was getting excited. I'm like, oh, my God, it sounds like the video is about to come out. They found it. And it's like four years later, we still don't have it. So witnesses were great. The neurologist, Italo, he did not talk about his telepathic communication that he has spoken about before. That was probably on purpose. They didn't want to go too far off, you know, into that world. So he's talking about the being. He's like, you know, he seems more intelligent than us, which I'm really not sure how you can get that from looking at the being. He said he was looking around the room. But overall, it was really good. But for me, I loved and this is kind of and I love the woo. Like I said, I first got into that. I love paranormal. I love mediums, all of that stuff. But I also love the congressional aspect. And Kirk McConnell, who was a senior staffer for Congress in various intelligence committees for 37 years, he's been involved in this since 2017. I remember Kevin Day, who was part of the Tic Tac incident. I remember him sending us a letter from Kirk McConnell. Like, who is this McConnell guy? So he was interested back in 2017. He spoke. He gave some really, really, to me, important information. He talked about how Rubio and other senators have spoken to witnesses who talked about interaction with non-humans, crash retrievals, bodies. And we had never really heard, from what I remember, we have never heard what Rubio was exposed to. But then he goes on to add, McConnell's like, but it's not enough for Congress. They need more firsthand witnesses. And in an interview that McConnell did with Jesse Michaels a few years ago, it might have been last year, he said, it's not a lot. Firsthand witnesses who worked in the program, we don't have a lot of them. And McConnell also said, he said, in his view, and I know he has gotten legal advice from other people who work with him, in his view, people can come forward and share what they know, despite whatever NDAs, non-disclosure agreements they have signed. As long as they're speaking to Congress in a secure location, a SCIF, they can spill their guts. Because Eric Davis said, in James Fox's movie, he said, you know, I'll tell Congress everything I know, as long as President Trump waives my NDAs. But McConnell's like, he doesn't need to do that. He could do it right now. Those NDAs are not going to hold up. I totally am confident that if he came in, nobody's going to prosecute him. You know, and if they tried, they would really have a difficult time showing that it's hurting national security. So that was my takeaway from yesterday. I transcribed everything McConnell said, because I think it's important. And so that was the highlight. And I know Virginia was the focus. But for me, it was McConnell and then Burleson at the end. And before I forget, Andy, we talked about it. Anybody out there listening, if you remember when Burleson first started getting into this, he said, unless I'm delusional, which is possible, but I think I'm pretty sure. He said that if he ever received information or proof that we're dealing with aliens, he would speak about it and risk going to prison. I need to find that. I'm pretty sure I transcribed it. So if anybody else remembers that, let us know, please. But yeah, that's overall, that's my take. And I don't think Virginia is going anywhere else unless we get the video or we get the autopsy. They talked about exhuming the gentleman in the army who who encountered the being and then got sick and died and some infection that they can't explain. He should not have died. They want to exhume him, get some tissue samples and do some testing. That would that would help. I don't know what the testing would show. So, you know, for all we know, if they had the being and did a DNA test, it could come back as human, even though it's not human. I mean, we don't know what we're dealing with. So, yeah, that's my take on yesterday. Yeah, some good points there. The exhuming of the body is massive for me. And if you can give me a shocked face for the thumbnail and I'll put exhuming alien body as part of that. But I think that could be huge. And I think it's obviously a very you've got to be respectful in that conversation. You're talking about a young man who died here 30 years ago. But I presume given his sister's involvement with that, she provided testimony. She was one of the witnesses whose whose visa was denied. She lost her brother in 1996 after this event, allegedly scratched by the being when trying to apprehend him. Like you say, he gets this infection that was aggressive. A lot of folks pointing to the idea this is likely or potentially a non-human, you know, disease. That biology is really interesting. At the Sol Foundation event, Jacques Vallée had a talk, Joe. I don't know if it's even online yet, but I'll be fair. It was pretty dry. It was quite a long case. It's that in totality, in my opinion, I'll have to say that it wasn't the most interesting UFO case necessarily in terms of the event. It was quite standard. However, it did involve a craft being quite low down or landed in a forest area. And Jacques has the bark from the tree. And he said he's had this now for like, what is it, 40 years, 50 years in this box. And he says he's kept it because it would have absorbed and been changed molecularly by, and I hope I'm getting this right, the radiation at the time. And that's something if studied could show new evidence for that event that happened 50 years ago because they didn't have the technology at the time to study it and analyze it appropriately. On stage, Gary Nolan joked, but being serious at the same time, that he's trying to get the bark from Jacques because he can do the testing, but the bark would have to be destroyed. So I think Jacques's in the position of, oh, I've had this 50 years. And, you know, imagine getting a really old comic book appraised and being really worried about someone handling it. Gary Nolan's like, we can test this now, but the bark's gone afterwards. So I think Jacques's fighting with that a little bit, it sounded like. But to say that, it sounds like there are cases like this that we're now going back 30, 40, 50 years that potentially we can revisit with new technologies, new methods of study, new analysis, and find information. And for me, that exhuming of the body, again, fully with permission from all the family, could yield some really interesting results. Or, like you say, it might come back and say there's not enough to test. I don't know. They must have done their homework on this at this point to know that whatever's left has something left over of the body. But I thought that was a pretty interesting approach. And it definitely doesn't sound like James is leaving this alone. He's going back to Brazil in the coming days to follow this up. And obviously the anniversary is happening over there. The video, though, like you say, and this is the most frustrating thing for me because there's two videos I think many of us would love to see. This video of the being from Virginia, however long it may be, would be almost definitely smoking gun evidence. I know James and speaking to him on the interview and afterwards, and he wasn't telling me anything, you know, secret here, but he's gone to a lot of great lengths to try and get a hold of this. But I think some of the issue is he's getting contacted by folks in Brazil who are like, yeah, I've got the video or I can get you the video. So that reward for the video is $100,000. Can you send me the money now? And he's like, I'm not sending you $100,000. Quite rightly, I'm not sending you $100,000 to then come out and you're not there. You get robbed. It's a fake. It's a scam, whatever it might be. He's going to want a kind of escrow, isn't he? And I'll give you the money, but I want the tape. And so it's a really convoluted and difficult process. And then you've got to imagine if the video is genuine, does exist, whoever's got it potentially does fear for their life and having it. And is worried about releasing the video. The second video, by the way, is again involving James Fox. Is that Chuck Clark footage that is often talked about from back in the 90s. You've never seen that video, have you, Joe? No, but I've tweeted about it a lot. And yeah, James. I would love to see that. I know Logan Paul has obviously seen it because he went with James Fox to view it, which is really frustrating because Logan Paul filmed it with a button camera and has then never released that footage. Supposedly Chuck Clark threatened to sue him if he put it out, which I don't know if you could really. How would that work? I've got a video of an alien spacecraft that is from a VHS back in the 90s that two guys filmed and dropped off one night anonymously. And if you release this online, I'll sue you. Yeah. Where's the copyright? Where's the trademark? And I appreciate Chuck's stance, but like you say, I don't get how you could be sued for that. And if he's just going to sit on the video, which is now degraded to an extent, we know it's been a long time, I would love to see those videos. But yeah, the video would be huge, I think, in this case. One thing that really stood out to me in a negative way was the lack of mainstream media presence, Joe. I was first off really frustrated that there was no press club feed for the event. I don't like sitting watching these events with commentary of individuals down the side of the camera, talking over it as it happens. I'm not a millennial. I'm not 18 years. No offense to anyone older who likes that, but I like to watch the event and listen to the speakers and take that. And then if I want to go back separately and listen to commentary reviews, awesome. Give me that. Give me that option. When I cover those events, I'm going to say, see you later, full screen. I'm not going to sit on the screen for an hour and try to jump in, which I know some people like that. And you want to comment during a break, that's fine. Also, yeah, a friend of mine asked me, she goes, what do you think? Who do you think is going to cover this? I'm like, News Nation and nobody. You know, it's ridiculous that they don't cover the story, especially with McConnell up there. Even if you want it like, oh, you know, Virginia is too much for me. But you got McConnell. Let me just say one more thing, because I want to make it clear, which I did not in my tweet that I did for McConnell. I want whistleblowers to come forward. They're not going to be prosecuted, according to McConnell. But there's also other they also have other issues with intimidation, losing their pension, losing their job, losing their security clearance. All of those things are used against them. And I would never, ever say, you need to come forward now. Like people were saying to Lou early on, just take one for the team and just say everything you know, everything. You know, this is too important. No, I'm never going to tell anybody to say that. That's such a personal decision. So I just want to make sure that was out of the way. Also, I'm not blaming James for not getting the video. I know it would be the most difficult thing in the world to acquire. I'm just telling people, just lower your expectations. That's all. It's really difficult. I don't expect us to get it anytime soon. If we do, then we can get really excited at that time. On that lack of mainstream exposure, I'm under the impression that that might not be completely the end of that and that there might be something coming in terms of that. I don't know what it is. And that sounds really vague and, you know, mysterious. I just think there might be some kind of mainstream follow-up either in the pipeline already or we're going to hear more from it. But a couple of people messaged me to say, yeah, it's not just quite straightforward. There's no mainstream coverage. So 2022, I thought there was, and I looked at some of my old tweets, there was talk about a New York Times article on Virginia, which never happened. Maybe we'll get something like that. I don't know. Is that the article that you ruined? No, that was, that was, we could talk about that too. That was 2020, I think. Is that, yeah, I was going to say that sounds a little bit early. I mean, maybe even after that, because I started this podcast in 2020 and I remember getting you on because, I mean, let's do the long story short, because I think we did speak about this before, Joe, and it was a few years back. Essentially, the New York Times article 2017 dropped, there was long rumoured to be this big follow-up coming, what, a year or so later, we'll just say. It was rumoured that it was going to heavily focus on the crash retrieval aspect of this, maybe some big bombshell statements, you know, given it was the same journalists involved. And yourself, Joe, you were quite prominent about speaking about it online. And was it Ralph Blumenthal, who was quite vocal about people like yourself speaking about it too much online, causes these things to not get put through the editor's desk? Ultimately, it doesn't help. Was that kind of what happened? Ralph was one. Leslie wasn't happy. And back then, I remember you asked me, would you do anything different? I'm like, no. But, you know, that was five, six years ago. Would I do things differently looking back now? Yeah, I would have. I would have done things differently. One of the people I talked with was supposed to be part of that article. They were interviewed, I believe, by Leslie. And then that person asked me, and you can figure out who it is. I just don't want to say. But that person said, you know what? Leslie interviewed me too. Can you hold off on posting your blog until the New York Times article came out? And I said no. And they're like, okay, I understand. I would probably do that differently. And, yeah, I was out of control hyping that thing and talking about it too much. And I understand where their anger came from. But also, in my defense, I had my own sources on that. It's like I did my own work on that. So it wasn't like I was stealing anything from them. But, you know, like George Knapp, and I'm not comparing myself to George Knapp, but George Knapp was asked to take a seat back for 2017. And he's like, yeah, all right, I have the story, but it's the New York Times. Yeah. I probably should have done the same thing and just held off and just waited to see what they had. Because maybe if I ruined it, if I ruined any part of that article, I would, I feel bad, you know? Yeah. It's a good example, though, Joe. You know when people say about, and you've been quite, when you mentioned before about people saying Luella Zondo should just come forward, spill all the beans into hell with it, you know, take the jail time or whatever might happen. And you're quite right to say you wouldn't ask anyone to ever do that. But this whole thing about people should burn their sources, there is an element of, like you did, so we don't know for sure. But if the rumors are true and that article was going to be filled with revelations about the crash retrieval program, the legacy program, maybe it would name Clapper, Glenn Gaffney, like Knapp did in the hearings, you know, maybe it would name big names in this kind of huge, huge media conglomerate. That could have been quite big. But you come out and say, this is what's going to happen, or other folks done that as well, it then doesn't. It's either Joe was lying, Joe was making it up, or Joe caused it to not come out. So we don't know if that was going to be in there in the first place, if it wasn't going to be in there. And I think that's why sometimes people, it's best just to take a seat back and go, let's see what happens. I think it seems to be a little bit better online these days for people posting a lot of teases and I know something's coming down the pipeline. Maybe people are a little bit better at holding their water and this kind of stuff because you just end up, I hear things sometimes and I could put out breaking news. I've heard this, but you know what, you can just end up looking silly if it doesn't come out. And that could be, do you know what, 100% the story I break was totally true. You put it out there and actually it doesn't happen because of any number of reasons. And it just makes you look, and you just have to defend yourself, don't you? And be like, well, I heard this and people think you're doing it for clicks and stuff. So it's a really difficult water to navigate. I mentioned this the other week when I found Lou Elizondo's book online. I wasn't the first person to know that Lou Elizondo was writing a new book. Others knew, but I found it on the publisher's website when I was looking for Stratton's book. And I want to get your thoughts on that. And I messaged Lou Elizondo to ask, do you mind if I share this online? Because it's public knowledge anyway now. Someone else is going to find it. And he was like, yeah, sure, go for it. So I didn't have to do that. I could have just popped out there. And I know people said he will have appreciated that or whatever. But I just think there's sometimes a little bit of courtesy goes a long way in these things to say, do you mind if I share this? You know, and yeah, but fair play to you for saying that you might do things or you would do things a little bit differently now. Hopefully we get that chance again. I want to ask you a little bit of a sidebar then. So McConnell's statements were really interesting. And he's talking about getting around NDAs, not even having to get around them, just the fact that come out and talk. They can't prosecute you or they won't prosecute you or you'll get protection. It's going to take a really brave person to be the one to test that water, isn't it? Because it's again like, you know, seeing a sign that says shark infested waters on the beach, but someone saying, I promise you, Joe, there's no sharks in that water. Or do you want to be the first guy that puts your foot in to check? That's what we kind of need to happen here. Can you actually see that happening though? But we did have, and he's not somebody who worked in a program, as James Fox says, you know, using the wrench to bend metal. But Dylan Borland came forward without going to Dobser. You know, he did not get anything cleared, spoke to the people behind the scenes, and then he went and did interviews and then did his congressional testimony. And nobody had approved anything he was going to say. Now, and then we have Matthew, Matthew Brown, right? Yeah, Matthew Brown, yeah. Matthew Brown, sorry, Matthew. He didn't go through regular Dobser. He went through the State Department, kind of a little bit of a workaround and shared not everything that he knows, but he shared a lot. Now, can I imagine somebody working in the crash retrieval program or somebody who did work in it? Like they went to, and when I say that, I say they go to work, they get in through all the security and the craft is there and they're trying to work on the propulsion system every day for a few years or they did work on the bodies, autopsy, analyzing tissue, that kind of stuff. We're talking about those kind of witnesses. Can I imagine it happening? I mean, everything I hear publicly and behind the scenes is no. But, you know, will it happen in our lifetimes? Maybe your lifetime, maybe. Mine, I'm not so sure. But that's what we need. And whether or not that takes us to the next level, that's a big thing because I've had people behind the scenes say, this is coming out and it won't be specific, but this is really going to get things going. And then it comes out and it doesn't get things going because the media has still ignored it and the masses just are paying attention to other things. So those people mean well when they tell me stuff, but you cannot control how people are going to react. You cannot control how the media is going to react. I don't know if the media has a muzzle on it somewhere or it's just they don't want to admit that they've been wrong about this for 80 years. I'll tell you why this is getting zero coverage. Well, a big reason for it in the UK mainstream or any press today is because of, I don't know if you've seen, the Beckham's son has come out in a social media post to say that his mum was a really bad mother and that she was selfish when it came to his wedding. And this is like blown up in the UK as like the only thing that most people are talking about. I am staying well clear. I could not give to flying saucers as to this story about Brooklyn Beckham's wedding and his mother not designing the dress for the fiance. And literally this is everywhere. It's all the memes. It's on all the X accounts. It's just the mainstream, the broadsheet. Everyone's covering it. And here's this event that happened yesterday. One thing that I wonder if this would help, I saw this conversation on a few platforms, including the podcast Discord. So thanks to the folks in there. Had a really good chat yesterday during the live stream. People were suggesting that maybe one way forward for this is, and this would be interesting to get your opinion, drop the technology side of the conversation at that senior political level because if they're really stonewalling the technology as being the national security risk, if, you know, Trump's come out and just said there, Joe, we've got, you know, I'll do my Trump because people quite like it. We've got these secret weapons. We've got the best weapons. No one else has got the weapons we have. You know, we can make them disappear. So Trump's telling us all how they've got these amazing weapons, right? And I'm sure they do. I'm even forgetting the NHI side of things. I bet the US has got some fucking incredible technology that would blow our minds as to what it can do. But if you forget the tech and just go down the route of, we don't care about the saucers, the anti-gravity, whatever you might have, the bodies, that's not national security. So have you got non-human bodies, non-human remains, non-human biologics? And can you see there potentially being some kind of fruit in that respect that Congress, the UEP caucus, whoever it might be, start to go down the route of, we're not talking about the craft, we're not talking about the crash retrieval programs, we just want to know about, are we alone or not? Cancer. You hope to never hear it. But if you do, you'll want a team of experts by your side. 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And I can make an argument, or somebody would probably, possibly make an argument, well, the bodies have some sort of, there's some sort of shielding on the bodies, and we can use that on the battlefield. We don't want to give that up to our adversaries. Independence Day style, the exoskeleton that things have. But, yeah, that's worth a shot, unless the reason for the secrecy isn't just technology. I mean, I still don't know if it's just the technology, or it's the fact that we're not alone, and they're afraid if there'll be some societal collapse, if people learn we're not alone, and these beings have been here for a long time, and they've had a hand in somehow manipulating how society has progressed over the years. But I don't know. If they're only concerned with technology, and then if they're only concerned that gatekeepers and other people are concerned with the technology getting out, then, yeah, that could work. Focus on the bodies, focus on what type of beings we've seen with bodies. Worth a shot. Definitely worth a shot. There's the argument as well around maybe there is still a national security risk, maybe not in terms of our enemies getting a hold of weaponry and using it against us, and there's the argument that if the US, China, or Russia, if one of those have one tic-tac, then they could put a nuclear weapon over any point of the other's nation within seconds, and there would be no time to do anything about it, so you would win. That would be the superpower. You've won. So that makes me think that is not the case. Or they've all got these really cool craft. It's looking less and less like Russia have any of these things, let's be fair. And if anyone was going to have it, it's the US and China at this point. Although... When you say don't have, you mean a craft, or don't have, have not reverse-engineered whatever they have? So they either don't have like these tic-tac or triangles. The triangles are always the conversation, aren't they, around these are the reverse-engineered, potentially human hybrid, human hybrid or human NHI joint operations. So either they don't have any of these things, or they both have them. Because surely if the US had one of these craft and China didn't, that's game over. Because you just have to show the right people in China, look what we have, and you don't. So sit the fuck down. And no offence, but looking at the administration right now, and the fact that, you know, the American political system seems to be losing a lot of friends across all its allies at the minute, it's a bit of an odd situation to think that any of these nations do have that level of technology. What do you think the US, for example, has in its arsenal? Do you think they've got triangles? It's a great question. We can talk about that because it's really confusing and it's controversial. I mean, Eric Davis had talked about being, he didn't say, he said he had access to some of the Soviet, I don't know if it was files, photos, but basically they had a tic-tac. He talked about that in Age of Disclosure. Didn't say how much progress they had made as far as reverse engineering, but as far as what we have, Eric Davis has come out and said, we've not made any progress. The program was shut down in 89. It'll be started up again when they think we've had enough advancement with physics and materials. Then there are other people like Will Miller, who I interviewed back in 2020, 20-ish. He's like, oh, in my opinion, we have a full, Russia and China have their craft, but we have a full operational craft that can go anywhere, anytime in the universe. All right. Okay. That's the opposite of Eric. Then you have Lekaski. This is the controversial and it's not talked about more. Lekaski is asked by Jeremy Corbell. They're talking about reverse engineering. And he goes, Jeremy's like, what kind of success have we had with that? And Lekaski, who was so scared about, not scared, but he's more, very concerned about our adversaries learning anything. So he won't say anything that's not approved by Dobser. Then Jeremy asks him that question and he goes, well, we haven't had reverse engineering success to the full extent. I'm like, this is somebody who doesn't talk about this stuff and now he's telling the world that we have reverse engineered what we have, just not to the full extent. That's a pretty big, if that's true, that's a really big revelation. What extent? 60%? 70%? I mean, if that's true, we have craft, I could do amazing things. As far as whether or not, like you said, I don't know if we would use it publicly unless we actually had to because people make the argument, well, if we had it, you would see it. We wouldn't have to fight wars anymore. It depends on if the technology is world changing, economy changing, they may hold it back, but privately, maybe they would show China and say, like you said, this is what we have. Don't try anything. So it's controversial and confusing. I don't know who to believe. You got Eric, Will Miller, and you got Lekatsky. Three different opinions on what we have done as far as reverse engineering. I don't know what your thoughts are on that. Yeah, I think across the topic it's difficult to think, are some of these folks lying purposely or are they telling the truth as they believe it or is it the case that they're actually all telling an element of the truth and they're just exposed to different things and I've found this, especially over the last 18 months, that there's more of a split across the folks involved in this topic who are public around how they think it should go forward and obviously, they all know different things, but I think there's involved, even just from a military point of view, where some of them want this all to come out, some of them don't want this all to come out and I think that includes, well, I would say, I know that includes figures who are sitting there publicly and would appear to be like disclosure champions or at least are happy to appear in the documentaries but they're only looking for certain aspects of the topic to get public exposure. Other aspects, they are fully behind keeping it behind closed doors. So I think there's a real spread and you're right, it's difficult to work out sometimes who's telling the truth and people can be disappointed in that, can't they? That, oh well, Eric Davis says we haven't had this success. Well, maybe as far as he's aware, we haven't. Maybe we have. I struggle to think that the US have a fleet of triangles that a very, very small aspect of the military or a private contractor are in control of. You know, Tom DeLonge, secret machine style that they can go up and they test, fly them around. Maybe to your point, they can access the craft and again, I love using Independence Day. There was this idea that they could get inside the craft, they could work on it but it didn't turn on until the aliens come to Earth, you know, so they've got very limited success. Then they can start using certain things. So it's a really, really strange aspect to this conversation because then again, we won't even go into it now because it's too big and I'd have to prepare better for it. But okay, so is it one species? Is it multiple species? Do they all have different craft? Do they have the same craft? Do some of them not need craft? Are the craft all craft? Do some of the craft just appear but they're actually non-physical and they're just here as a viewing port. You go into somewhere else and it appears in the sky here. Any number of weird scenarios like that. But yeah, it's a bit of a strange one. I can't remember the question I was going to follow up with on that but in terms of those names, yeah, go on. The one thing, in the Age of Disclosure documentary which, I mean, yeah, I have issues with some of it especially not talking about ASEP but I've watched it four times. I've recommended it to other people who like it. They're not UFO people. I think it was really, really well done. There's a part where Senator Mike Rounds says, let's face it, if, and I don't know that, how do you pronounce the head of China? The head of China? Yeah. Or if he or Putin had this technology, you know they would use it to get to world domination. So in my mind, if they, he goes, if they thought that we didn't have it and they did, then they would stop at nothing to achieve their ends of world domination. So right away, I think, okay, if we don't have it and they know that, we need to lie about it and make them think that we have it and make them think that we have reverse engineered this stuff so they don't try to attack us assuming they have been successful in their reverse engineering. So I do consider when I hear something from somebody, especially if they work in intelligence, they may be lying to me. I consider that with everybody. I don't, people think I just believe things, you know, just because so-and-so is saying it. No, I don't. I don't. I mean, I look at what they're saying. I try to find out if anybody else is saying the same. It's really hard to confirm things. It's really hard. When I see, that's a word I used to use. I don't use it anymore. So-and-so said this, that confirms it. No, it doesn't really confirm it. It's just another person saying the same thing. For us to confirm that we have a non-human craft, you and I need to go to the vault. We need to see it with our own eyes and then show us the bodies, show us the results of the, you know, the tissue samples, everything. I don't know. I have a big problem with the word believe versus know. I believe we're alone. I believe we're not alone on this planet. I believe that there's a non-human intelligence here. I don't know it. I mean, I don't know what it would take. I guess, like that scenario I just said, that would show me that, yes, I know 100%. And maybe I'm nitpicking with words. I don't know. Other people would say, come on, you believe, you know, it's the same thing. Now I'm rambling. Oh, no, I get that. I want to talk about mentioning some of those folks at the top of the chain at the moment. Lou Elizondo has a new book coming out. So you mentioned before about Lou, quite right not to come forward and spill the beans and get involved. And he wrote Imminent. That came out. New York Times bestseller. Done really well. Currently in the UK. Not number one in the UFO charts. My book is. Thank you, folks, for buying it. That was my shameless plug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And on Amazon. That's awesome. It's doing well in the niche charts, folks. So thank you for picking up. And it's on a very, very good offer till the end of the month as well. I will buy it today. Oh, cheers, Joe. It's not on quite as good an offer in the US, but it's still like 20% off. But yeah, over my shoulder. Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects, folks. But thank you. But yeah, Lou's book done incredibly well. Sold massive amounts of copies around the world. He's writing a new book, Reckoning. I'm really surprised this is coming out before Stratton's book. And the point is, I found Lou's book on the HarperCollins site when I've been looking almost daily. I've got alerts set up for when Stratton's book gets put online. And it's still not there. Are you surprised Lou has a second book coming out before Stratton's? And what do you think Lou's going to talk about in a second book? I'm surprised Lou has a second book coming out at all. I had no idea he was working on a second book. I have no idea what he's going to talk about. As far as timing on Stratton, I don't know. Dan Farah, who's involved with Stratton's book, he was involved with Lou's book. On Rogan, he said that he expects Jay's book, Jay Stratton's book to come out in the spring. Also, along with that other book about the guy who was in a program and forgot in memory. Remember that? Scott? Yeah. Yep. Yep. That other book, which Lou said is going to be a, I think he said bombshell, our favorite word. Maybe not. I have no idea what Lou is going to talk about. I really don't. I mean, I'd be totally guessing. Curious to see what he has to say. And, you know, the criticism is going to be, why didn't you, if there's something really, really important, why wasn't that included in the first book? I'm really looking forward to reading Jay's book for people who don't know. He was involved with OSAP back right before OSAP, 2006, 2007. We would not, Andy, I'm pretty confident we would not be talking here right now if George Knapp was not born. Because Knapp and Kelleher hunt for the skinwalker. Jay Stratton took that to Iraq. Lekatsky read it. That's what got them interested in the topic and Skinwalker Ranch. Lekatsky went to the ranch, had his experience, OSAP was formed. So, I really, really am looking forward to hearing from the guy who created ATIP, he said, in 2015 and was the head of the UAP task force and the guy that brought David Grush into the UAP task force to go looking for the crash retrieval program, which he took four years, Grush did, to investigate. You have any, you have any idea what Lou was going to write about? Well, what's interesting is, so this is what I said, the blurb for the book was on the publisher's website, so this is what was there. It is no longer there. If you go into Amazon or you go into Harper Collins, it just has untitled the new novel by unknown author and it's got the unseal and the price. They've even removed. This novel? They've changed it. They've removed all the details that were there previously and it's no longer up on Amazon. So they've removed everything but this is on Elizondo's page because I've got it saved. So it's just the price and the on sale date and product details have changed. It's in society and social sciences. Yes, they've removed all detail but I've still got saved what I wrote back in January. So it was titled Reckoning the unspoken truth about UFOs and the urgency of now and this is what the blurb said A former Pentagon insider reveals the hidden truth about UFOs and why humanity can no longer afford to look away. For decades governments have concealed the truth about unidentified anomalous phenomena or UAPs but now the silence is cracking and the consequences of secrecy are becoming impossible to ignore. In Reckoning Luisa Elizondo former head of the Pentagon secretive UFO program delivers an urgent wake-up call UAPs are real, the evidence is undeniable and our future depends on how we respond. Drawing on previously undisclosed evidence, let's talk about that, global history and groundbreaking science, Elizondo reveals why this is not just about strange lights in the sky, it's about technology, security, faith and the very identity of humankind. This is the pivotal moment. Will we evolve into a species ready to face the truth or retreat into denial and risk catastrophe? None of that is available online anymore. Days. But that is what was on the publisher site and Amazon. I'll have a quick round, but yeah, what's your take on that? I don't know. I mean, what's, I mean, you heard, we've heard so many rumors and ideas about 2027 and all that stuff, what's coming and even Lou's kind of hinted at that stuff, which I'm really skeptical about. thought maybe it's going to be some of that. I mean, I don't know. I mean, is there any way, I thought you said the word novel somewhere. Was that word used? Not in the initial stuff. It's there now as untitled the new novel. So I think they've just put like a placeholder in. So, but it was mentioned and it's, it's changed into like science fiction now as a category. But again, I don't know if we should read too much into that. I think they've just moved it given if because of when I reported it and everyone when it went out online, they've taken it down. I really don't know. It's going out in a good time though because it's on pre-order two weeks before the Steven Spielberg movie comes out and then goes on sale late August. So yeah, good time of year for it if indeed all that information still goes out. But that line about what was it drawing on previously undisclosed evidence. So is that going to be all the talk that happened after Lou's book was written? Maybe guys like Grush coming out and the stories that have happened since then or is that hinting at Lou's going to be talking about undisclosed evidence? Because I think that would upset some people. Yeah, it would definitely upset people. Why didn't you talk about that in your congressional hearing testimony? I guess we'll wait to see. Has there been any rumors about when? Yeah, I've got the exact dates that had pre-order 29th of May goes on sale late August 2026. I think it was like the 27th it was due. The reason I really not to change the subject, I just don't know anything else to say about Lou's book. I guess we'll have to wait until August. I really want to see how Jay handles the talk about the end of ASAP, Kona Blue, if he talks about it, and then A-Tip. There's such a gap, and people get mad when I bring it up. It's like, listen, everybody I've ever spoken to, except maybe one person who didn't say anything bad about Lou, they just didn't say anything. They've all said, Lou played a really, really important role in 2017, going forward with Congress, doing his media interviews, but if Jay Stratton is saying he created A-Tip in 2015, and Lou is saying he headed up A-Tip in 2009, 2010, what the hell was Lou doing in 2009 and 2010? He wasn't part of ASAP, he has said that. I have said publicly I've heard that Lou did one small thing for A-Tip early on, but he was not part of the program. So what was Lou doing from 2009 to 2015, and people also told me he was not the director of A-Tip, I don't think there really was a director of A-Tip. Can I give you my understanding and you can tell me what you think based off the back of this, okay? So my understanding is you had ASAP, they wanted to make that an official SAP, special access project, get the funding, you know, I'm guessing that involves a lot more benefits and all that kind of stuff and access to things. When that was declined, around that time, or just before it was declined, Lou was brought on board for a position, whatever that might have been, but he wasn't in charge of it, he was just brought in. Once things were basically we're not going to be able to go ahead with this, the group kind of disbanded a little bit an A-tip carried on with Lou with Lou running that, give him whatever title you want, but he then carried that on because the other guys were like, OSAP's gone, it's done, we're not getting what we wanted in terms of this being an official project, it's going to carry on as A-tip. Lou ran with that, and so he was in charge of that, but that was, I don't know, can you say less official however you want to spin it, but it still carried on as like a kind of non-official project, but still doing very real work and that's where that crossover for me is particularly interesting as to, is it a little bit like, you had the Beatles and they decide to split up just as they hire a new band member and that new band member carries on as the Beatles, but the rest, but you know, John and Ringo aren't there anymore. Is that what happens? And again, this is speculation because we don't know. And obviously this is one of the things, Joe, I love your take on this. Age of Disclosure was filmed over three years. One of the things people pointed out was Lou and Jay Stratton sitting next to each other. So it was like, oh, that's good news. But in the last 18 months there has been a lot of talk online and it's not even rumour online folks is true. But there was stuff online that Stratton and family, I believe his wife, were unhappy at some of Lou's positioning of himself around this. That was out there, folks were talking about it and that's when a lot of folks are like, let's see what Stratton says in his book. Is it going to shoot down some of Lou's position? Is it going to water down what Lou done? Is it going to show that Lou embellished things? And again, this is all just speculation that folks are suggesting or will it vindicate? No, actually Lou done this, this, this and this. Now, Age of Disclosure was filmed over three years. They may have been sitting side by side before Lou's book came out and they're not together after that. We don't know because we're not given in the corner like a timestamp to say filmed July 2022, filmed August 2024. There's every chance that happens because Age of Disclosure, however you want to look at it, comes across as a Lou Elizondo vehicle. He heads up the program, literally. He heads up Age of Disclosure as the narrator, as the host almost. And I know that got a lot of people talking, so that was interesting for me. I would hope, honestly, I don't want to see Jay Stratton's book come out and slander Lou or talk down about any work Lou Elizondo done. I hope it vindicates. This was Lou Elizondo's position. This is the work he done. It will hopefully clear up a few things that we don't have right now. But I think this goes back to your point about Miller, Davis and Lekatsky. You know, are we wanting to find out one of those guys is lying? One's telling the truth. One was being lied to. Or are we going to find out it's not that easy? This is far more complex than we're led to believe and we just don't have all the puzzle pieces. Yeah, that may be and I'm trying to figure out that's why and people are like, we're dealing with the non-human intelligence. Why don't you focus on that instead of the other stuff? Because I want the accuracy. I want to know exactly what went on back then. And I don't think no, I know Jay a little bit Stratton. I spent a little time with him in Alabama and then in California. I don't think he's going to slam Lou. That's not his style. There's no way. I just think he'll tell it as it happened. Assuming nothing gets changed, you know, after he gets through Dobser because Farrah is involved in the book. So I'm sure whatever disagreements Lou and Jay have, Farrah is well aware of it. I hope he doesn't get Jay to take anything out of his book that's already approved. And I'm really, beside that, I'm really looking forward to Jay talking about the UAP task force and Grush and all of that. How much is Stratton going to say about the crash retrieval program? The movie, Lou does a really, really good job in that movie. His communication skills, even though when he first came out, he's like, I was in the shadows, I don't want to do this. Well, his communication skills are top notch. He is media trained now. He is very media trained. Yeah. He's really good. And I showed the documentary to somebody that knows some of the issues that I have brought up with Lou. That person, it's my ex-wife. I showed it to her. I'm like, you got to sit down. You got to watch. All right, I'll watch. And she sat through it and she liked it. She goes, I go, what out of one to ten, what do you think? She's like, a seven. Because it's really well done. It really takes us through from 2017 up until now. I can't believe, just flashing back to yesterday, Burleson is still talking about the UAP Disclosure Act. They're going to try for a fourth time this year. Maybe it happens. And then another thing that, just so I don't forget, McConnell did say, and we mentioned it, Trump could just put out a tweet and say, if you are part of a classified program, if you're part of a special access program and signed an NDA, that does not mean you cannot go to Congress. You can go to Congress right now. You don't need me to waive your NDA. Yeah, if Trump did that, that would help. I don't think everybody would just automatically do it, but it would help. Is Trump going to do that? Probably not. Unless you say, President Trump, if you tweet that out, we'll give you Greenland. Well, as we speak, Trump said he's not going to invade, but he's also, I believe, said you either come to the negotiating table or we'll remember that, whatever that means. So, veiled threat to your friends there, folks. Maybe that's where the UFO underground, the giant football field-sized UFO is under Greenland. That's why he wants Greenland. Now we're talking, there's the thumbnail folks, shocked faces, UFO under Greenland. That's the one. Joe Morgia confirms. I made a note there you mentioned, and it's probably a good place to wrap up on the chat around the event itself from yesterday. Burleson closed out with remarks around that UAP disclosure act and whistleblower protections. I think what we're likely to see is rather than a fourth attempt at the disclosure act going through the NDAA, which it has and failed. I know Danny Sheehan would argue small elements of it have gone through but the big stuff hasn't. It's largely a shell of what it could be or should be. It looks like he's going to try and get them through as standalone bills. I just wonder how difficult is that going to be right now when there's a lot of shit on the plate of politicians in the United States and then you've got to be the guy to walk around going, I know we're probably going to invade the UK in the coming months and I know we've just nooked France but let's try and protect UFO whistleblowers coming out to speak about aliens and you can imagine like seriously Eric come on man not right now and this is the thing that I said last year when when and you know many of the same accounts I do Joe and no offence to them but when they're constantly banging on about the toothpaste out the tube now you can't put the genie back in the bottle this is it disclosure walls are breaking down and then there's always something that can come up that will distract the public cause groceries to be more expensive in supermarkets the cost of fuel to fill up your car being more expensive this is shit that affects people here and now today and if I then try and speak to my wife well I say you know our rent's gone up £100 a month and the shop has gone up from £800 a month to £1000 a month oh do you want to sit down and watch this really interesting documentary about US politicians speaking about potential alien life she'll be like not fucking particularly no and not for £15 or £20 that it's going to cost us to watch it there's that kind of very real separation and what's actually affecting people now and I think that goes up the food chain to people at the very top as well and it is still that thing of realistically Joe unless the Epstein stuff comes back rolling down that hill towards people in power then maybe the alien stuff's used as a distraction at that point I don't know do you think that could happen or are we are we seeing that it's easy enough to bat this stuff away over and over again yeah I think they'll keep batting it away I don't think he would use the UFO stuff as a distraction I hope I'm wrong you know with all of this stuff and I see the same tweets you see disclosure is imminent no it isn't I mean I hope I wake up tomorrow and I can go on Twitter and say oh my god I was wrong I'm an idiot obviously who cares what I thought we have I mean and I don't even know what we would what would you know what would constitute disclosure right now first-hand witnesses coming forward like three three people having a press conference saying we worked in a program for three years we worked on craft this is why we believe they're non-human in origin would that do it it all depends on what the it depends on what the media coverage is for the public Joe for the public at this point I think it's got to be bodies or craft or a phoenix lights in 2026 like a proper over LA New York London whatever Glasgow why not you know over a major city with lots of camera phones something undeniable I mean broad daylight would be great but I think something like that would get people talking at least and I think you'd have enough people now that they couldn't just explain it away as flares so that I think for me is what the public needs again if you could get a video of an alien being in a hospital in 1996 I said earlier that would be smoking gun would it still I mean it's AI it's fake it's just computer yeah that's not what it is it's something else everyone would are and do you know what to be fair if you pulled a flying saucer onto the white house lawn I think you would have people go yeah what are they trying to distract us from now yeah good try you could literally have the alien beings walk down the ramp and folks wouldn't believe it people are really cynical it's really a problem right now if we had more of the videos that we had released in 2017 but they're longer and they're clearly anomalous maneuvers by whatever craft at least we can get people saying if they can get by the AI aspect that's pretty weird well if we have the provenance yeah provenance we have the pilots yeah we could at least get people saying that's anomalous technology whether it's aliens or our advanced technology this could be world changing that might at least upgrade the conversation and get the media covering it because 2017 we have not seen coverage like that since 2017 we've had little spurts here and there grush I'll say grush grush was okay but it wasn't 2017 if people ever want to look at the art can I argue that though yeah there was more coverage of grush in 2023 than there was of 2017 in the UK geez that's good that's a good thing I did not know much more I mean I do remember I went in to get pizza one day and the guy goes how's it going I'm like it's going pretty good I said it was right after grush had testified I go did you uh did you see that congressional testimony on UFOs today and the guy goes David Grush I'm like you know David Grush huh yeah I think it was just a random stroke of luck that he knew it because people in my family and friends they have no idea who that is but yeah I didn't know that that's great that the UK covered that over here I need to look at Giuliano Marankovic he has a website Omni Talk Radio is his twitter he just covered he has almost every article every media appearance since 2017 up till now it's incredible work and I think 2017 was more coverage on Grush I could be wrong though yeah one more thing before some listener questions Joe if you're good for time still Skywatcher it's almost a year since then I was looking at some stuff today and I just happened to notice it was almost a year to the day that Jake Barber came out on the show with News Nation with Ross Coulter famously we saw the video of the egg being previewed and the Barber interview the 45 minute interview that came out first and it is literally almost the one year anniversary it was then a couple of months after we hear about Skywatcher we hear about the the claims that they're going within a year and be able to show show their working essentially I always felt Joe that they they made some big claims at first and then walk those back for me the way I remember it and you'll appreciate this memory is a funny thing it seemed to me as if we can summon these craft and using a dog whistle and psionics telekinesis whatever they want to call it then when Skywatcher fully came out properly they kind of walked that back and went yeah we're going to we're going to try and do this we think we can do it and it was like I thought you could do it I thought you've been doing it I thought that's what you said and then it was like anyway we're now I asked Jake Barber I was really fortunate at the Sol conference to get the first question with him in the Q&A and I said to him you know it's you claimed it was going to be one year that you were going to be able to basically show you're working and show that you can summon these things are you still able to do that within the year he basically said fair question they're going through all that data and he believed well it wouldn't be the 31st of December he said you know he commented it was February or March or April he actually made that statement and he says it might be like a calendar year you know that 365 days and it may overrun slightly which is totally fair but it has gone very quiet on the Skywatcher front and I just wanted your take on that whole situation I mean he said that they're going to have answers to everything we always everything you ever wanted to know about UFOs but we're afraid to ask where they're from how they work who they are within one year so we're past that year now it's not going to happen in February it's not going to happen in March if I'm wrong slam me for it I don't think that's happening I remember it the same way you know we can you know basically they can bring down a craft which told us oh then they already have brought down craft this is going to change everything this will prove that we're not alone that we're dealing with anomalous technology did somebody you know I hear whispers they've been told to shut it down if that's the case if certain people told them certain people in the government told them to shut it down I guess they're not going to be able to admit that I've kind of lost and I was you know I was skeptical off the bat when he's like I saw this egg and right away I knew it was a non-human craft I'm like how do you know that I mean you didn't see it fly but based on his other information that's what his conclusion was so where we are now with them I don't know I mean I'm definitely disappointed I never expected them to tell us everything there is to know about UFOs within a year I never thought that would happen but I thought we'd have at least a clear video of a craft that we couldn't explain we don't have that I mean I remember when Marek von Rennenkamp was on he did one of their videos they put out two videos they never put out the third on psionics yeah and I think it was the second video Marek is going through all their type of videos and craft that they're seeing or objects and one of them people were like I think even Mick West jumped in he goes those are birds other people are like those are birds and if you watch the video nothing about birds came up and then Marek jumped in and said during that video interview I mentioned those could be birds you might want to bring in what is the person who studies bird ornologist I don't know what it is but he goes bring in one of those people to look at that video and then Marek goes that was cut out of the video that was a big thing for me I'm like you should not be cutting that out that's really bad here's your guy Marek interviewing you saying those might be birds and you took that out so I don't have a lot of confidence in them right now I know Gary Nolan is involved Gary is a smart guy so I want to give them more time it's like we have no choice but I don't know what to expect from them going forward I really I've lost not hope but I've lost any any I don't know I really don't I don't I don't it's not really something that comes on my comes to mind when I think about UFOs right now I'm glad you brought it up because I did want to talk about it I use Gary Nolan involvement the sky watcher as the canary in the coal mine that when he's no longer involved it's dead or not worth following and as far as we're aware he still is and so just to say yeah you're quite right it was the the first of August 2025 sky watcher basically put a thread out to say continuing aggressively collecting data moving through the process outlined in the discovery framework it was set up very professionally you know they had a full flow in what they wanted to do and bear in mind it was the end of October at Saul Jake Barber and then James Fowler separately both talked about the work and it was still ongoing so that was that was like eight nine weeks ago ten weeks ago and he said our objective remains the same moving forward we will create a clearer delineation between media releases and formal scientific analysis please ignore unsubstantiated claims or gossip which historically has done us entire space an immense disservice part three on psionics is completed and going through the appropriate editing and review process we are confident you will all enjoy it more very soon that was August 1st so here we are five months later and we still don't have that um we then found out on we found out on the 18th of August James Fowler had left and then um December was the last time they sent a tweet out on Christmas Eve happy holidays to our sky watch our friends and family sky watch was founded slightly over a year ago with the goal of applying discipline science advanced sensing and rigorous analysis to one of the most complex and least understood challenges in aerospace and atmospheric research we will continue to explore all areas of the scientific frontier and follow the data wherever it leads us in service to humanity and the public using the best scientific practices available to us more to come soon that was it I I you know they have Alex Kerkus as an investor obviously he's not going to invest the money the guy's sharp there was something that showed him it was worth investing I hope you know I like Jake Barber I watched all of his interview with Ross it was three hours he comes across as a good guy but you know proof is in the pudding and so far we do not have the pudding and we'll see what 2026 brings I hope they can do stuff I don't think it's a total I know people are like it's a hundred percent grift I don't think that's what that is I think they were able to do things that convinced them that they were summoning UAP and they now they need to back it up with really strong evidence which we have not gotten yet even one piece of strong evidence and amongst all that data if they can show like you see one good video one good photograph or one incident where they can be like this this is legit there's something here that would get folks on board with it but like you see that a little bit like age of disclosure came out in a premiere the end of March early April and then it's what six months before you see it and did it damage it but it looks ultimately it looks like it didn't but a lot of folks lost faith in it over that time so perhaps there's still a redemption arc on on that but listen let's fly through some listener questions Joe if you want just one thing on age age of disclosure for the longest time we heard this is it this is the documentary this is the game changer it's not the game changer it's not it's it's really good it's really important for that information to get out there you know Dan Farah is saying these people didn't speak until now because there's strength in numbers and once they they understood they would have other people they started speaking Andy most of those people had already spoken before Clapper spoke about he didn't speak about a program like he did but Clapper had spoken about UFOs Eric Davis we could go down the list those people had already spoken before there are new voices in there there are new really interesting things that were said important things but the game changer is such a big word what's changed I mean we'll see we got to give it time to see what happens and how much we can give credit to the age of disclosure great film but right now it's not a game changer to me you are more than just a heart patient at Trinity health of New England we get to know you which can help us diagnose a problem and start treatment faster our cardiovascular team offers the latest imaging and device technology testing and surgical procedures you'd expect from a national health system with the personal touch you want from local experts we know the importance of seeing the person behind the patient because we see all of you learn more at Trinity health of any dot org slash heart running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each 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notifications about their progress and the most money back guaranteed now this is taxes into it turbo tax see guarantee details at turbo tax dot com slash guarantees only available with turbo tax experts real-time updates only an ios mobile app and for me um james fox the phenomenon is still the documentary i'd be showing someone that said i need to watch a ufo documentary tonight what one you showing me i'm not seeing age of disclosure i don't know if age of disclosures and my top three to be honest so i think i'd still be going phenomenon first um age of disclosure i'll stick by it's too dry as a documentary for the general public um and it's too long so yeah just my opinion for what it's worth folks but i am not an experienced documentary maker with a number one documentary on amazon and so what i hate her i know dan farrah would be laughing in my face and so we'll fly through some listener questions to finish off here joe thanks to everyone who got involved some of those i've baked into the interview already and we've covered and i have to say joe before we carry on and i did get a lot of folks passing on their well wishes for for cookie who was your your beloved dog who passed away i didn't want to read them through on every single question and also your sister um who obviously um you've had you've had a bit of a rough year of it haven't you oh no your your sister had a stroke no no no your sister had a stroke um it wasn't a stroke it turned out it wasn't i was like oh good andy andy's talking to my family now no god no yeah i don't have my sources i appreciate that and cookie yeah i went through all the messages it was difficult that people had sent in april when it happened so hundreds and hundreds of messages so thank you to everyone so many questions joe finished off with either a comment about your sister's health or uh cookie uh passing away and i was like i'm not going to read that every single time to joe that's not thank you not ideal it's good my sister's good thank you for everybody awesome so that's good to know it wasn't that so um yeah i could edit that out folks but i'm not that professional um but at least we know there you go folks that tweet that are sent in those questions to joe thank you um so first off chris walford um who you'll you'll know from online said what are joe's thoughts on roswell being two crashes versus one crash i've never heard two crashes i know people talked about two different crash locations but lou in his interview with ross said there were two craft one crash the other one crashed and took off again and then eric davis interviewed by peter scoffish of soul said uh no there's one crash and i know there's rumors about a second crash i don't know where that's coming from so unless lou has information or we're misunderstanding i only thought it was one one craft you know one crash in corona not roswell that's what eric he's like it wasn't roswell it was right it was a little bit away from roswell everybody says roswell but it was corona um maybe i'm missing something i wasn't andy i wasn't even into crash retrievals and heavily into roswell until the wilson davis stuff came out because i was like we're never going to learn about roswell and then that came out i'm like okay um there are people that are so much more knowledgeable about that subject is there something i'm missing about the two craft i've i've heard that before but not from anyone in terms of like depth or detail just that oh i've heard that roswell it was two crashes i'd even heard and i think it is just that kind of speculation that grows over time that the the craft that crashed was coming to search for another crash that had happened previously and that was the one that got recovered by the u.s army and again i think it's just that kind of lore that develops with the passage of time and over the years as far as i'm aware from anyone who talks about it in any official capacity or researches it thoroughly it was one craft that crashed and one more thing that happened recently the eric davis interview he did with peter scoffish um eric said because we're always like how does eric know this and i had put a tweet out that morning where eric explained back in 2019 how you find out about this stuff and he went through this long thing in an interview with um alejandro rojas so i put out that transcript again and then the interview dropped with peter scoffish and he's like one of the big things they had right during the osap years they met it was bigelow lakatsky kelleher they met with the vice president he didn't eric didn't say who it was but it's jim rider he was the vice president of lockheed and he told them he said to those three i spent 20 years working on the crash retrieval program with four other people um and then eric talked to writers separately got the same information and they and they were close to getting in when they tried to get osap turned into a special access program and then it was shut down that was part of what they were trying to do so they never got to see it so is it really there we don't is that enough is that enough i don't know what jim rider showed or told bigelow uh hal put off and kelleher and lakatsky i don't know what he told them i don't know what he showed him um showed them so like i said for me and you i i think you're the same way to know for sure that we have that we need to see it even those guys haven't seen it and if they have they're not saying so i just wanted to bring that up because that was a really good interview that that was done with eric well i i also appreciate from that perspective when you when you put it that way how or why the national security angle comes up so often and why would any rational person especially in a position of power or responsibility if you know you have an alien craft decide yeah let's show it to the public because like you say immediately what would stop then say the us came out tomorrow and went look we do have a craft we've got one craft all the stories about nine craft and everything no we've got one we've got one intact craft that we work on it's in this hangar right person let's let's take the camera crews along we're going to film it what's to stop at that point china invading the united states or attempting and going do know what we have to make a move for this now like we need that technology or we we basically secede as a superpower like you could literally it could be like almost a a an indirect declaration of war and even if it doesn't go that far i remember when i interviewed michael by a few times he's like as soon as you admit that your adversaries are going to do everything within their power to find out exactly what you have and try to get the same thing so i don't know if it would be as far as declaring war on us but i'm sure that's gone through their minds the people in charge and they're like there's no way we're giving up this secret there's no benefit of course we we know there is a benefit to the world knowing that we're dealing with the non-human non-human intelligence especially which we don't have time to talk about but if that non-human intelligence has interacted with humanity and manipulated our history somehow either positive or negative that's pretty important to know especially if it's still going on now that's one of the arguments i make and my friend my good friend who i showed he didn't want to watch the age of disclosure um i'm like why are you not interested you come all you come here once or twice a year you never want to talk about this and he's like i go because if this is real don't you admit it's the biggest thing ever for humanity he's like yeah but it seems like they always get so close to having the proof and then it never happens so i just don't pay attention it's that episode of south park where you're chasing the magic dragon which is a drugs euphemism but you know you're sitting on there and you've got the stick in front of and you're always just close to getting it but i think that's what keeps so many of us in in this topic are interested in it to be honest as well it's it's always close um but like you said earlier joe you know if if if a country if a superpower finds out there's a base out there or a craft they can go and recover do they go in and get it there's always loads of stories over the years about iraq afghanistan the middle east you know pyramids are hidden under the ground craft that have been recovered technologies that have been recovered and that's one of the reasons aside from oil or that's used as a cover to go in and get these as greenland a big ufo as greenland the new skinwalker ranch you know that'll be a couple of years on history greenland season one you know digging for the ufo um could be there uh howard asks what are joe's thoughts on valet's control system theory and do crashes make the system more likely to be an open than a closed one i put out a suite about his best explanation for the closed versus open system and just a whole explanation for the system idea where he talked about he thought it was multiple systems i forget the word he used and then yesterday it's i'm glad that question came up because in valet's prepared video he said it appears to be an extraterrestrial phenomenon empowered by advanced artificial intelligence and valet that was yesterday valet's known for not you know he shies away from saying this is extraterrestrial he talks about maybe interdimensional from some other reality for so for him to say that i don't know if that's really has he changed his mind that it's extraterrestrial with you know being being basically play everything's being played out by their artificial intelligence i don't know um the closed system he talked about if we're in and i i still always struggle exactly what he means by this but if he he talks about if we're in this closed system we should be able to do something to change it you know like he uses the example you're at your home and you change the thermostat if the temperature doesn't change then you really have no control but if it does you go okay so we can do things to change it and then he also brought up a simulation in that same interview how he used to be against that idea but now he's more open to it partly because of some of the work that ray kurzweil has done on the simulation i i'm a big i have a large interest in the simulation theory which we definitely don't have time to get into now um i would love to find and i'm looking for oh here it is valet and i'll retweet it for people watching i'll read it this is going to air tomorrow i think we'll i'll retweet it he's like i'll just read some quotes he's like are we being taken over by a species from somewhere in space that's vastly more intelligent than we are i was like i've never seen him say that uh talks about how the simulation was a new concept that he initially rejected but now he's more open um is that he goes if it's a closed system we're like prisoners and something is going to happen to us there is very little we can do and he says turn the thermostat dial if the if the temperature doesn't change then i know i'm inside of a control system so we can do the same thing with ufos but we have to react we have to number one acknowledge that it exists and number two we have to react to it so let me just just a little more because he asked the question valet says so um the question you have to ask about ufos is number one is it a natural or an artificial system control system and if it is a control system is it open or closed in other words are we being taken over by a species which i said from somewhere in space that's vastly more intelligent it's a really long explanation um which i won't go through now um it's it seems like somebody is that kind of goes to the manipulating society but i don't want to say that it's for a bad reason i don't know why they would be quote unquote they would be doing that it certainly doesn't appear to be good um at least certain aspects that are certain aspects of it are not good as colin keller said we were not able to determine intent during the osap program but we could definitely say that interactions with certain uap are not good for human health because people were getting sick with from their interactions so that's the most important question you know the system what is it doing is it what is it trying to tell us and i don't know if we'll ever get that answer ever especially if it's negative why if there's something that's using us you know and trying to control the way we are for their own selfish purposes why would they ever tell us if they're continuing to use us and i know people that's another thing eric probably annoyed people eric davis said this is not your space brothers that's not what we're dealing with um he said something about malevolent i don't know if it's malevolent it might just be selfish self-preservation i forget who said that if it's self-preservation it's kind of like do are we malevolent are we malevolent for eating cows chickens pigs you know we eat meat yeah no we're not we're not malevolent we're just doing it because we use that to survive we don't really give it a second thought most of us but it's not malevolent you know we start going down that route what's what is evil and peter lavander has spoken about a lot about that too we're answering it already but james had asked the same question uh both our thoughts on jacques valet and his hypothesis that was talked about yesterday so we're answering it um and on that though it's the equivalent joe of i mean you seem like a nice guy if you go outside to your apartment and there's a a group of ants on the ground that you you don't see and accidentally step on you i think you'd be like oh i'd rather not have done that but it's not going to ruin your day and you you carry on doing what you were doing those ants were intelligent they were doing something they were they were building they were carrying they were they were a community is that how a species much more intelligent than us would see us just uh just you know they are what they are and they look at it as as a bigger picture perhaps and if you zoom out on humanity if this is some kind of simulation or like a zoo theory type scenario you know we're not all the same and i don't just mean like you've got americans and brits or you know black versus white i mean like you've got like a western culture with all these different religions you've then got you've got amazonian tribes that are as yet haven't contacted civilization as we would call it you've got you've got people living in extreme poverty you've got thousands of children every day being macheted to death or gunned down by people in the name of whatever religion they have got or whatever fight they've got going on politically and do you think a species watching that is thinking this is going well or from our point of view are they running it well if if it's something they're in charge of whatever that looks like because i wouldn't say this looks like it's going particularly well and i don't just mean the way things are in the world right now in the united states the uk and europe and further afield people listen to this but i just mean look at the human history over the last 500 years or thousand years is this going well it doesn't in the scale of it really balance out i think to a positive experience yeah and maybe in it's possible and i know a lot of people and i understand why a lot of people shy away from this theory but it's possible that all the problems on this planet are very helpful to them there's something beneficial to us being at each other's throats um you know constant stuff de long talked about like fear being something that can always motivate them and i know it's a really crude way to think about it but you know in monsters inc when they use like humans the screams of kids to power like their city but then they find out that laughter is 10 times more powerful blah blah blah all that bullshit right but the idea that fear can be like a fuel source de long's talked about that on rogan famously started i think the first person that i was able to find was rudolph steiner in the early 1900s he talked about how these beings feed off of our fear and negative emotions and then you have throughout the years various people talking about that um is that even possible i mean the late bill bankston wrote about us an experiment where they hooked up plants to an e uh and stuff i forgot how you say it the eeg it might it's not i don't know if it was the eeg but it was and it wasn't yeah a machine that can take readings based off of electronic signals and reactions and i don't know if it was cleave baxter who first did that work with plants but anyway they hooked up the plants and they they told the person to put out different emotions and the plant reacted differently to a neutral emotion an angry emotion a happy emotion so there seems to be something tangible to our emotions so maybe there's some sort of non-human being that's non-physical that somehow uses that for sustenance that's the that's the whole soul trap theory simulation it's created by some people who think that's going on they're feeding off of us through the simulation that just creates this planet is basically a hell hole when i say that people are like my life is good i have great things i'm like there's some really great things on this planet but then you mentioned the negative stuff that's gone on it's horrific some of the things people go through it's the worst thing ever you know well it's them learning their lessons i'm like we start getting into that i've had family members go through hell um so what was your original question yeah but no to that point i think that even that idea of a day-to-day basis have you never had it in your life where when things start going wrong the car breaks down relationship issues you know money's not great it's one thing after another and you can get stuck in a cycle and it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy it feeds itself but when things are going well you know you get a new job you get a promotion your mindset changes you get a little bit fitter you you come into some money um you meet someone that changes an aspect of your life and it goes in a new direction you meet new friends and things are looking up these things oh as i've just lost joe no there we go you're back in uh i'll just double check i'll i'll take out that a little second did you hear what the other reptilians took you out yeah that'll be at least it wasn't the poster that fell down um but did you hear what i was saying about the you know when things are going well when things are going badly yeah so when things are going well they keep going well and is that is that a fuel is that you yourself and your your positive mindset are you creating that outlook are you creating that luck i think in a movie you're you're led to believe that the waitress down on our luck you know finds a winning lottery ticket and wins a hundred million dollars and her whole life changes around is it the case that these things happen because you're in a space or of a mindset that it's got you're attracting it famously noel edmonds tv presenter in the uk i think you know deal or no deal we all know that game show around the world noel edmonds had been out of tv in the uk for something like 10 or 15 years he was a massive star that no longer had any jobs no one wanted him he wasn't famous you could walk past them in the street and you'd be like oh noel edmonds he famously talked about how he came up with the idea for deal or no deal and he wrote to the universe like a letter and sent it to the universe to be like i want to be back on tv i want to be famous again i've got this idea i want to be in the limelight i want i want money success i want that back as his passion to be back in tv and all of that happened off the back of that and he he strongly believed it was him put putting that out there to the universe that allowed him to turn his life around um and i know it's you can't just walk out tonight and wish upon a shooting star that tomorrow spotify are going to offer me the new joe rogan contract and andy we're going to give you a million dollars an episode which would be wonderful if anyone's listening but there is that element of i suppose you make your own luck good or bad yeah and i have studied uh manifesting the whole idea of you know affirmations way back i mean affirmation go the first time i was introduced to affirmations i am healthy i have a great job i am this i am that it was probably around the first when i first started getting into this um somebody who is interested in that who really has a level head approach is mitch horowitz and he has some really great books on that i've attended yeah yeah mitch is great i mean he's also interested in the ufo topic and also in paranormal i've attended his lectures in person in los angeles um and also bill bankston who does who the late bill bankston who passed away last year he some of his stuff the healing technique allegedly also is a manifesting technique to even prove that is the case i don't know um so when i when i bring up the idea that something's feeding off of our negative emotions i am not saying that is what's going on that's a theory that interests me it may be all bs the manifesting stuff i've never seen proof i've had a few experiences where i'm like maybe it works but nothing proof wise so maybe that maybe that's bs too i don't know i don't know how you even prove it but yeah um it could be self fulfilling prophecies it could be just positive thinking you know there's so many possibilities andy i don't want to people are like you're not giving enough credit to humanity for messing things up on this planet and i understand that so it may just be us i don't know that's all for this episode of that ufo podcast thank you so much for listening and watching if you enjoyed the show please follow subscribe and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcast it really helps others find the show if you're watching on youtube hit like subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss future episodes you can also support the show directly and get early access add free episodes and bonus content on patreon or by subscribing on apple podcasts spotify or youtube memberships all the links are over at that ufo podcast.com or in the show description below along with merchandise and more don't forget you can also pick up a copy of my book atlas of unidentified flying objects available now in all good bookstores and through online retailers including amazon big thank you again to all of you for listening and tuning in until next time keep looking up you never know what you may see you are more than just a heart patient at trinity health of new england we get to know you which can help us diagnose a problem and start treatment faster our cardiovascular team offers the latest imaging and device technology testing and surgical procedures you'd expect from a national health system with the personal touch you want from local experts we know the importance of seeing the person behind the patient because we see all of you learn more at trinity health of ne.org slash heart running a business is hard enough so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other one for sales another for inventory a separate one for accounting before you know it you're drowning in software instead of growing your business this is where odoo comes in odoo is the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that handles everything crm accounting inventory e-commerce hr and more no more app overload no more juggling logins just one seamless system that makes work easier and 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ready to serve in just one minute it's the problem solver i've been praying for it's the top meal delivery service for babies toddlers and kids and everything is designed by registered dietitians so you can sleep safe knowing your kids are getting the protein veggies and nutrients they need while still eating favorites like mac and cheese spaghetti and meatballs and so much more plus it's allergy friendly which we know is clutch and when it comes to options nurture life has you covered there's more than 50 nutritious meals and snacks on their menu from soft finger foods for babies and toddlers to balanced kids meals for when they get older nurture life does the cooking they deliver it straight to your door and then you might even have time to eat something for yourself so now is the time to head to nurture life.com slash pod and use code pod for 50% off your first order plus free shipping that's right 50% off plus free shipping once again that's nurture life.com slash pod and make sure you use promo code pod even if you aren't a parent with young kids you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime make sure to share our code pod with them remember put your little ones first with healthy meals from nurture life that website one more time is nurture life.com slash pod pod you are more than just a heart patient at Trinity Health of New England we get to know you which can help us diagnose a problem and start treatment faster our cardiovascular team offers the latest imaging and device technology testing and surgical procedures you'd expect from a national health system with the personal touch you want from local experts we know the importance of seeing the person behind the patient because we see all of you learn more at Trinity health of any.org slash heart this podcast is sponsored by nurture life hey it's Danielle Fischel from pod meets world and as a mom to two growing boys I know how chaotic mealtime can get no matter how confident I am with what I'm serving them my kids will always find a way to call the meal gross or stinky or yuck it's true they can be wildly picky about new foods and with my busy schedule I don't have the time to become America's next top chef and so that's why I love nurture life it's a meal delivery service that actually caters to kids ideal for ages eight months to eight years fully cooked and ready to serve in just one minute it's the problem solver I've been praying for it's the top meal delivery service for babies toddlers and kids and everything is designed by registered dietitians so you can sleep safe knowing your kids are getting the protein veggies and nutrients they need while still eating favorites like mac and cheese spaghetti and meatballs and so much more plus it's allergy friendly which we know is clutch and when it comes to options nurture life has you covered there's more than 50 nutritious meals and snacks on their menu from soft finger foods for babies and toddlers to balanced kids meals for when they get older nurture life does the cooking they deliver it straight to your door and then you might even have time to eat something for yourself so now is the time to head to nurture life.com slash pod and use code pod for 50% off your first order plus free shipping that's right 50% off plus free shipping once again that's nurture life.com slash pod and make sure you use promo code pod even if you aren't a parent with young kids you might have parent friends who struggle with mealtime make sure to share our code pod with them remember put your little ones first with healthy meals from nurture life that website one more time is nurture life.com slash pod pod you