(Pt.2) Breakdown: Chaos, Hearings & New UFO Whistleblowers

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Only available with TurboTax experts. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. Hi everyone, Andy here. And very quickly before I kick off the show, I just want to let you know the new store is finally open for the podcast. If you go to thatufopodcast.com forward slash store, you will find there's a whole new range of merchandise with podcast logos, a cool new t-shirt which says, science the shit out of it, which I'm quite fond of, and also limited edition run of prints of the popular Sphere and Loathing thumbnail I done some time ago. Only 25 of those are available and I think about a quarter of them are gone already on day one. So please go and check out the store. A different way to support the podcast. Buy yourself some cool merchandise and anything you find that you want added to the store or any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, I'll shut up now. On with the show. Let's dive into some listener questions, Pavel, to finish off. It's been really good to be with your time, mate, so I appreciate it. Some of the stuff I've covered, folks, in the body of the conversation, you'll appreciate. I've got loads of stuff held back for next time Pavel's on. But Algo says, Hi Andy and Pavel, here's something to discuss. The UEP topic comes and goes in waves. I'm not in it for that long, but it seems so. Facts that were obvious need to be rediscovered every couple of years. Is there a way we can determine if there is progress if you go by the decades? How to measure it? Is it public opinion or is it cyclical? And all we do is keep running in circles. Happy to hear your thoughts. When I was talking to Alan Levine, he told me that back in the 70s, he's like seeing a lot of the same tropes happening right now that were happening in the 70s. He truly felt like there was disclosure like right around the corner in the 70s, bro. And there's a lot of stuff that is kind of the same, which is why I do recommend folks to go to the literature so they can be more informed on the historical aspect of this. They can also go to either the CIA reading room or the Black Bolt, which has a lot of historical data there. And that will get you more up to date, you could say. And you can learn to identify the new things that do come out, which do come out. It's not like everything is just repetitive and already happened. There's a lot of new stuff out there too. Yeah, I would say the big difference now and what could, not saying it will, but what could make the difference? Because like you say, I hear from folks who have been involved in this for decades. And they say they have seen and heard so much of this, at least in a similar vein before. What we have now is we are more connected than ever. You listening to this, you watching this, folks who are watching Pavel's podcast and picking up this one and vice versa, would never have had that 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. That kind of international community. With that comes a lot more noise, but with it comes a kind of power of community. And when that works together, and we do see it, I think you can get a progress from that as well. That even when the conversation is being pushed in the United States, you've got people from Mexico, people from Scotland, people from Italy, Jamaica, Ireland, all able to have a say in what happens in a different country and how that affects everyone else. So I think there is, there's a difference. As much as things stay the same, there are changes. And I think it just depends how that gets used both for and against us. But yeah, Kimberly says, I love Pavel's take on things and his ability to dig in and get great truths around his entire show, around this entire show we are watching. Having him on is a really great, a dream duo, we're called Pavel. Susses out the facts, give your great insights, continue with the side notes of humour. Given my own expertise, we are at about 8 out of 10 points from a winning score. Whatever the reason is for not telling us all the info, well then, it must be so frightening and paradigm shifting that whomever thinks they're in charge is starting to realise it's time to come clean. Keep up your discussions and research, pressure is the only way to make a crack. So, Kimberly was very nice about it's both there, Pavel. But Kimberly getting to the idea that, you know, are those in charge starting to realise it is time to come clean? And we do hear that from some commentators, don't we? That there is a panic, there is an awareness that they can't keep this secret forever. So, is it time to let something slip? I've always wondered though, because this group, the alleged Majestic 12, that presumably is where the secrecy originated from, how has it morphed over the years? And it probably became Zodiac or whatever other names they've chosen. I've always wondered if some of that group has not always been like against this coming out, you know, or, and I wonder if there have been disputes within those groups that of whether this comes out or not, whether, you know, and if there is a dispute in there, there must be also division and different efforts and fighting each other and all that stuff, which it kind of extrapolates to what's going on in the outside and in the community must be happening too in there. So I've always wondered if maybe that's what's happening, that maybe there are a couple of members of those groups that want this out. And that's why we're seeing this so hardly pushed. Something that does jump out to me when I speak to especially military people who have seen these objects and have experienced sightings or whatever that they weren't privy of is that many of the ones involved at the very top, they keep saying that it's hard to get the genie back in the bottle. It's like impossible. And they keep saying that. They seem so certain. I hope they're right. But at this point, it's for an outsider like me, it's kind of impossible to gauge how far along we are or how close we are to some kind of divulging this information. Yeah, I think it's far too simplified when folks say that online. And I know some of the YouTubers or influencers or whatever you want to call them who often come out with those kind of sensationalized, it's just around the corner type comments and the genie can't go back in the bottle. We can't push the toothpaste back in. But no, you can certainly throw a lot more genies up in the fucking air. And that's, excuse my French, but that's what you do. You just put so many genies out there that no one knows which genie is the one you're meant to be looking at. Or indeed, you put a load of bottles on the floor. Or you smash the bottle and you go, that's fine. There's no bottle for it to go back to. But where does the genie go at that point? You know, so I'm going to start with the genie analogies now. But yeah, I think it's far too simplified to say, oh yeah, we've gone too far. Because like you say, far more seasoned researchers, veterans, or even just commentators and followers of this topic will tell people like us, Pavel, I've seen this before. I've seen something like this before. There's always a way it can go away. And yeah, for me, I do think it is cyclical. I do see that kind of rollercoaster up and down. Are we going to see another peak come September? Maybe we do get a surprise witness. Maybe people like Matthew Brown, David Grush, even if they're not at the hearing, come forward and speak. Can we get them on some of the bigger platforms, some of the bigger podcasts? Maybe they'll humble themselves and bring themselves down to our level, Pavel, and mingle with the commoners. Because I think you can get some of the better conversations even at those levels sometimes that people don't expect. If they're smart about it, maybe that's why we're getting like a bunch of different type of information. And at the end of the day, they already have it all planned out. And there is a firsthand scientist. Or if they're smart about it, that's what I would do. I would distract everybody and just do my thing and already have it all planned out. Like a courtroom drama where you go, oh, actually, a surprise witness comes in at the last moment and you see the defence scrambling through their notes and, your honour, I object. Dee Hickey didn't have a question but just said, Dear Andy, that show has been running since 1947. We are getting there, brother. So that's a positive way to look at it. Zachary says, First one, Pavel, I'm going to let you answer around how to communicate this with family, of influence, in person and via social media, about the phenomenon and government disclosure. Do you have any advice on how to engage on this topic? To friends, social media and other. I've enjoyed my participation with the Citizens for Disclosure group that falls under Danny Sheehan's new Paradigm Institute. And to either have you have an opinion on Danny and his initiatives. First one, Pavel, I'm going to let you answer around how to communicate this with family and friends. Because I've talked about that quite a lot of times on the podcast and Zachary, perhaps being new or hasn't heard that. But what's your take on how you speak about this subject to folks that you know? I guess it depends on how much science fiction those family members have been exposed to over the years. Because, for example, I have a brother of mine who the instant this talk starts in the room, he leaves the room because it's like way too out there for him. And those folks, it's kind of difficult to get them on board. You would have to really show them something scientifically impossible to disprove. And when it comes to, for example, the background that I have and how I grew up, I'm from a Mexican family, Catholics. We celebrate the Day of the Dead, stuff like that. We are exposed to much more esoteric stuff from the Mexican culture side. So there's people that believe in a lot of things from the Mexican culture. So I wouldn't be the best person to ask about this because I did grow up with different types of exposure to things. But getting the family interested, I guess it just has to do with showing them a little bit of either evidence or testimony from credible people. I know that those hearings made a huge impact in people who are non-UFO enthusiasts, you could say. But yeah, it comes down to that. And here in my country, there's not a lot of seriousness in the topic yet. Mainly because of a couple of actors that a lot of people know. But I guess in my country, people like me or FEPO, for example, from Podcast Paranormal, we're trying, but it's difficult. There's a lot of mockery going on. There's a lot of black market stuff, shenanigans going on. You know, it depends on the country too. So maybe I'm not the best to ask this question. Listen, everyone's opinions equally as valid. I promise you. And just to give you my clip notes version, Zachary, I always like to try and get folks thinking just a little bit differently. And even if you keep it as simple as asking them, you know, what if it's not human, but it's something different? What if it's not alien, but it's not human? Just to get them on the back foot, have the conversation from your point of view, and just leave it even there if you don't want to take it any further with them. But yeah, get them thinking a little bit differently, a little bit outside the box. Put them on the back foot. Give yourself the power in the conversation. And separately, Zachary had asked our thoughts on Danny Sheehan's new Paradigm Institute and Danny. I'll start with that one, Pavel. I've had Danny on the show multiple times. I think like many, especially when he's quite a strong personality, very intelligent individual as well, very highly qualified, done some incredible legal work in his time as well, outside of the UFO topic. He, I think I've said before, is so involved with so many different people and groups and organisations that I don't think it's unfair to argue. Perhaps sometimes the colours bleed into each other. And it must be difficult to work out where you stand when you're involved with so many differing trains of thought. You know, not least that he was, he's friends with both Lue Elizondo and Stephen Greer. He said to me the last time I spoke to him, he was trying to get them both into the same room to talk. And whatever you think of either of those guys, I imagine most folks would like to see that conversation. Yeah. But yeah, I think Danny's doing his best to do some good work. He's got some wild speculation. He's got some really informed speculation. And I enjoy hearing from him. But yeah, I think the cast of characters that Danny is involved with and helping both legally and professionally, it must be difficult to form a really coherent opinion on this based on all those different conversations. Yeah, sort of feels like he wants to be Switzerland in this whole thing. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I applaud him for that. I think that's good, but he also seems to have his input into a lot of different topics within the subject. And yeah, I like Danny. I just would ask him more questions about his approach and his relationship with the Catholic Church in all of this, because he does seem like he has a direct connection to them. And we all know that the Catholic Church has been hiding a lot of stuff for millennia. And I would just like to know if any of that stuff has anything to do with this topic. Based on Diana Posolka's book, also, it seems that way as well. They do have an astronomy department, which when I read that book, I was like, oh, they do, do they? That's interesting. I didn't know that. So they seem to be more aware of the grand scheme of things, but they're very conspicuous about it. And I have a feeling that Danny Sheehan knows a lot about that. I would ask him more about that if I get the chance. I've only had him once. I would hasten to say that the churchy, and I'm not religious in any way, shape or form. You've obviously got a Catholic background. I think in 2000 years, when people are digging up Harry Potter books, you know, it's got as much credence as the Bible or any religious text out there. No offence, folks. But so, yeah. Aha. Yeah. I'm just not religious. But I think the church or any of the churches, any of the religions, especially the big ones, are probably far more secretive, far better organized and far more dangerous than any government organization, intel agency, FBI, CIA, NSA, Mossad, the fucking Chinese mafia, the Russians. And what are the Russians thing called again? Not the Kremlin. KGB. KGB. Any of that stuff, you know, the triads, anything like that. I imagine the churches are the ones that are probably the most sinister of all of them and the best at keeping this stuff secret. Proper old school, Opus Dei type shit. But so, yeah, I wouldn't fancy anyone trying to dig in too deep there. And that's what I commend Diana Pasulka for for the work that she does, because I imagine some of the conversations that she must have privately or some of the messages or voicemail she receives must be pretty intimidating to keep doing what she does. And thank you to Diana for doing the foreword for my book, Pavel, which is out in the middle of September, just after those hearings. Awesome, dude. The Kite Society says, hey, Andy and Pav, I'm a regular listener to both of your podcasts and really appreciate what you're doing for disclosure. Andy's podcast is just slightly better. I added that bit in, Pavel. I wanted to get your takes on Jay Stratton and what his current status is, as best you understand it. I would have thought he would have been a key witness to have in the September 9th upcoming hearings, considering his admissions in the trailer for Age of Disclosure regarding seeing firsthand non-human craft and non-human beings. But I haven't heard any indications he's expected to be one of the witnesses. He's, do you think he's keeping his powder dry to sync with his upcoming book release, which he's prioritizing over public testimony? Keep up the sterling work. And I know we covered a lot of that, but I like the question around, do you think he's keeping his powder dry because the book's coming out? Yeah, that person just answered their own question. I think that's exactly what's going on. Yeah, obviously we covered a lot of that, but then again, they say no, press is bad press. If you're that publisher, would you not be like, yeah, get yourself up there in front of those hearings? I mean, in the last one, did Lou not mention his book? I think that it also has to do with the movie, man. And when Hollywood gets involved, things get really tricky. Just one example, a good example is the Marvel stuff, whenever somebody says a spoiler, a lot of legal stuff goes on in the background that gets really problematic. And if that happens with something as unserious as a superhero movie, you can only imagine what would happen with stuff that potentially is very, very serious over the most serious stuff. So I think that's the problem, really. That's why Jay is not able to come out as probably most would like him to because of the film and the book as well, which I think are intertwined at this point. Yeah, I'm really intrigued to see when his book comes out. And again, folks, if you're newer to the topic and the conversation, maybe you've only been listening to myself or Pavel for a short time. Jay Stratton is very much talked about as the guy who's been at the top of much of the UFO conversation, ran multiple projects in the background, consulted on a lot of things, would know quite a lot and be a go-to guy. And if you've had Lou Elizondo's book come out, be a New York Times number one bestseller, the same organization is publishing Jay Stratton's book. And I wonder how much it would almost be a conflict of interest, Pavel, if you released a book and talked about you done X, Y and Z and put yourself in a certain light. But then they paid me to do a book as well. But I was your boss. And I'm then going to write a book to say, actually, Pavel, Pavel cleaned my shitty shoes, you know, on rainy days. And he's never mentioned that in his book. You know, people are and I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. But there's a lot of folks suggesting that Stratton's going to come out and potentially correct a lot of what Lou Elizondo said, or at least elaborate on it in a way that perhaps won't be flattering. There was rumors. I say it was rumors. I'm not going to quote rumors. People online posted direct quotes where folks in the Stratton camp were unhappy at things that were in Lou Elizondo's book. But it seems really strange to me that the same organization would sign up for both books. But then again, it's going to sell. It's going to do well. Would you not want that? So I think it remains to be seen. It'll be an interesting book when it comes out. Can't wait for that shit to hit the fan. Yeah. Nicholas, last couple of questions, mate. Nicholas says on the latest weaponized, I believed it was mentioned by Jeremy Corbell that they are still working on getting one of the witnesses for the upcoming hearing to be firsthand to more than sightings of black triangles by the sound of it or words to that effect. Sounds like expectation management at play to me. Do you think we're going to get more witnesses? Obviously, there's talk of potentially another couple. What are your expectations at? Maybe even to recap where you were before, Pavel, for this upcoming hearing? Are we going to get something that we're going to be sitting here, me and you, other folks on the 9th and 10th of September, recording podcasts going, wow, didn't see that one coming? I hope so. I think that we may get new information either by the end of this week or by the end of next week. But I would think that by the end of this week, we should have something new. So I hope at least one of the people Jeremy is trying to bring forward as part of that. I don't know if that will happen. I don't know if maybe they're trying to get a hostile witness in there, which would also be very interesting. I don't know who it could be, but if that happens and I'm telling you, like, this is a lot of theater going on and on and play. And there's there's a lot of confusion because maybe they're doing it on purpose, just telling you, yeah, this one's coming out. This one's coming out. We got this date. And nothing has been filed yet for the date either. So people are saying September 9th, hold that thought for a little bit until something really official comes out. Maybe it's a little later. Maybe it's a little before. But I would play my cards really close to the chest, considering the mess that the previous hearing was and how Matthew Brown wasn't able to be part of those witnesses. I would be really, really cautious on how I go about things. And, yeah, I would also release false dates, maybe like try to distract people with potential witnesses that are this and that. But I'm doing completely different stuff in the background and not telling anyone. That's how I would do it based on the previous experiences. I don't know about you. I'd be really selfish because in the United States, my book launches on the 16th of September. So if they pushed it back around a week, Pavel, I'm not going to lie. And I'm really sorry, folks. I don't think it'd be the worst thing to help. I'm not expecting a New York Times bestseller. If everyone who listens to the podcast and watches it bought it, then it probably would go there. But that's unlikely. It's not it's not a shameless plug because it's your show. Yeah, true. Sorry, folks. But, yeah, I think for me and the publisher, they'd be like, oh, my God, that would be incredible for it to be bumped back a few days. But, yeah. So, yeah, Atlas of UFOs out the 16th of September in the States, around then in the UK and stuff as well. But, yeah, I think for me, I want it to happen in September. I think more delays would be damaging to the overall. It would add to the theatrics and the theatre of what we've been having. But then you go from April to May to June to July. And unless they're really going to pull something out the bag where they say it's been delayed a couple of weeks, but it's going to be worth it. You know, I don't know. I really don't know. But do you know what? Again, I'll say I know some folks, very much everyone's got their opinion. But fair play to Corbell and Knapp because they are doing a lot of work in the background with this to try and get stuff in there. And like you say, I wonder, is there a world, because we have these big podcasts now, like, and I don't mean mine, but like, you know, weaponized and I was going to say need to know that's had its change, obviously, recently as well. But we have got... Alchemy, all of those. Yeah, but we have got two massive journalists like Knapp and Corbell. Well, if a witness isn't going to be used and they're trying to push that, well, do you know what? Get them on your podcast the following week. They could have recorded the interviews already and have them ready to go. And if that witness doesn't get used, bang, put your show out, put your episode out. And it seems to me at least Corbell is in that place where he's quite happy to go, nah, fuck it. Why not? I hope so, man. Push the button. I hope so. I hope so. And, yeah. There's a question for you, Pavel, which I'm not happy about, Logan. It's my show. But yeah, Logan asks, question for Pavel. He's very passive-aggressive. If there was one thing you could change about the whole UFO conversation, what would it be? A lot of the people involved at the top, I think that they need to be more forthcoming and transparent. And we need, like, a place where there's an agreement that the information needs to be open source so more people have availability to it. And I don't see that happening a lot. I see a lot of researchers that are, like, keeping their own information to themselves. They're very jealous. I think that there needs to be more community amongst the people involved at the top and at all levels. Because division and more and more bickering and all this stuff, I think that's helping the other side and keeping all of this a secret. And I think there needs to be a lot more communication and, yeah, more decorum and all that. If you want to do this right, it has to be that way. It can't be this constant, endless calling-out game and staying in the gutter, as they say. Can't be that, man. If it stays like that, I'd much rather just move away from the topic. But, yeah, again, it's probably by the side, too. So I don't know what needs to change, really. But I would change that. The communication overall, amongst the people that are trying to find out what's going on, I would change that completely. I felt the first year of the podcast, 2020, so I would say I think 2021 was probably the most together the whole community was. And I've always been wary of using that term community because what is the UFO community? I think there's a weird phenomenon where you log on to your social media feed and you think all those folks are, I've said before, it's like you're as if all those folks are in the same park or stadium, all chatting to each other, all aware of what's being said. And it's not. Social media is more like a hotel where everyone's locked in their room. You don't know who's upstairs. You don't know who's downstairs. You might be aware of who's next door. And all these interchanging rooms and movements going around, people moving out, people coming in, and you've got the hotel UFO. That's more like social media. So people can overblow their own importance. People can also undersell their own importance in the conversation as well. But definitely 2021 for me, it seemed very much more close-knit. There was a lot of moving between podcasts and shows and sharing of ideas and conversation and all different kind of things get in the way. Perhaps if you want to be conspiratorial, did some folks have the gatekeepers in their ears and things went awry? Who knows? Maybe it was just ego. Perhaps it was just naturally always going to separate anyway. It seemed much simpler at the time where you had one or two kind of spearhead or figureheads and everyone got behind them. But then as it went along, things separated and splintered off. And maybe that's just the natural way of things. But yeah. Dave Smethurst, while we were recording, Pavel, sent an email to me with a load of questions. We've covered a lot of them. But I'm going to pick one of them because I had something to ask you, Pavel, that we've not talked about yet. And then we'll be finishing up in just a moment. Dave asked, a number of people in the UFO community over the last six months have implied that senior figures in the community are either not to be trusted or trying to limit what they can say. Have you picked up on this? Is it message discipline, keeping in a secret like doom coming in 2027, protecting the program or something else? Because around that, I'd love to get your comments on this whole 3i Atlas situation where we have an object, Avi Loeb's mentioned. And I'm tying this all in here, Pavel, I hope you can see it. Where Avi Loeb said, you know, we've got this object we've found similar to a Moa Moa, but this object appears to be changing trajectory, potentially coming towards us. Is it speeding up? Is it slowing down? It's got strange signatures. Others, some astrobiologists and astrophysicists would argue that it doesn't have anything strange to it and everything is particularly explainable. Others would argue this is an object, artificial, alien, alien spacecraft heading towards us. And that plays into the whole something's on its way here. We're going to be told a lie. What's your take on just the messaging around the whole community? I don't like fear mongering. I think that there's a lot of that that has been going around for decades. There's always a prediction. There's always an event happening. There was Y2K. More recently, there was all of the stuff that people pinned on either John Ramirez or Anjali or all of these people. And it always happens. It's like the trope of some of these communities, especially the UFO community. When it comes to 3i Atlas, I think there are some things that seem a little strange. But to me, I still stand on it being just a comet. But yeah, that impending doom sort of narrative has always existed. And in recent years, also Chris Bledsoe has talked about it on Jimmy Church. He mentioned an armada, which I think it's a little bit irresponsible to just say that in a public setting like that. Because if there's any type of evidence to suggest that and somebody is concealing it or hiding it, I think that's irresponsible too. I don't think anybody has the right to hide information as important as that. But we have to be really careful not to conflate one thing with the other. Because, for example, the recent discovery that Dr. Villarroel recently made of this alleged surveillance system and all these subjects from the plates, that can also be easily misconstrued as something similar to that. And I do appreciate people like Dr. Villarroel who are very pragmatic and very scientific when they explain things. And we need more of that. We don't need more fear-mongering or imagination or predictions from remote viewers. We don't need any of that. We need hard evidence and hard science so we can talk about it. And hard data too. And if there is that hard data and somebody is hiding it, that's a crime in my view. And that's my stance on it. I don't know what you think. Yeah, on the Beatrice Villarreal presentation, I was fortunate to be in the room. In Durham back in, I think it was April, where she'd done the presentation on the transients. And essentially, again, folks, objects that were photographed by satellite going back to even the 50s that looked like stars. And then in the next photograph, several months later, they aren't there anymore, but they should still be there. And there perhaps could be other explanations. But she made a really simple scientific point. I was in a room of people where I was the least intelligent in that whole room, I can assure you. And even I could understand that she was making the point, these things were there in space and then they weren't there. Where did they go? That's not a phenomenon we are aware of. Was it something, a new scientific discovery? Was it something else that moved? And that's a question I think is worth asking. And that's where I've just got the new store open on the website, Pavel, okay? And I've got a t-shirt now that says science the shit out of it. Because I've read that, I've said that a few times on the podcast. But for me, it's just like, go do the science. That must be interesting to a scientist, an astrophysicist, an astrobiologist, whatever your discipline would be. People are like, huh, those stars were there. And then those stars were gone. I wonder where those stars went. Maybe they weren't stars. Go investigate. And yeah, people at Beatrice Villarreal is doing wonderful work. And I think Avi Loeb has been a little misconstrued. I know Avi's not, I wouldn't say Avi's a showman or an entertainer. I think he can be very entertaining and he speaks very well. But he's just hypothesizing, you know, this could be something prosaic, but perhaps it's something else. Let's go and investigate. And why wouldn't you? I believe the Juno spacecraft would be the closest. You could send that on a course to intercept. And yeah, why wouldn't you go and look? And do you know what? If nothing else, you find an interesting comet to study. I think Juno doesn't have enough fuel though. Has it not? So that's a problem. Because it has enough until November. And that object will be close to Jupiter in March next year. So that's a problem. I don't think that will be possible because of the fuel. I thought in space you would just shoot it in that direction and you do the math and go, yeah, we just turn the fuel off and it'll keep moving. But yeah, I get all my knowledge from Apollo 13 and Independence Day. So don't listen to me, folks, when it comes to that. But I think it's interesting. I think it's worth investigating. Like yourself, Pavel, I'm not claiming it's an alien spacecraft or anything of the sort. But I imagine it was something interesting. I'll just say that much. And we seem to... And if it was, I heard someone who said space whales from Star Wars and maybe something remotely related. You know who said that? And he told me. I thought he was joking, but Stephen Brown. Oh, okay. Yep. He's like, it may be one of those mergels or burgels or burgels. I don't know what they're called, but I'm like a space whale. He's like, I don't know. It kind of makes sense. I'm like, it's too big, man. You never know unless you're going to go investigate. Final question, I think, to kind of round off the show. So, from Mellie, regarding the shit show, and that's been the theme of this show, that's been happening in ufology lately, would either of you agree that the side wanting chaos among the community is winning at the moment, divide and conquer, spread misinformation, and lies with a sprinkling of truth into the mix? I'll start and I'll give my guest the final word on that one. I will say, in a way, they're winning. I think you just have to allow the community to eat itself, but that doesn't mean just because they win the war, the battle doesn't mean they'll win the war. So, yeah, I think there's an element of disappointment there, but hang fire. Pavel? I think that a lot of this, because we are all human, a lot of this has to do with ego wars and character flaws. And if we don't overcome those together, I think that this will keep happening. And, yeah, it is beneficial for those who want to keep all of this a secret. But I do think, and I always will give the community the benefit of the doubt, and I hope that they can see that all of these things can be fixed by just sitting down and talking to each other. That's the key for me. Just communicate better amongst yourselves. If you really find that you have a common goal, anything you can disagree on can be like, you can reach a common point or a common goal. And 90% of what's going on in terms of the problems would be solved almost overnight just by communicating better. I maintain that. Awesome. Pavel, always good to have you on and talking, mate. You're a wonderful voice in the community, I think. Enjoy listening to your opinion, your views. Like everyone else, I'll never agree with everything everyone says, and neither anyone should, but it's always good to hear differing opinions and different takes. How can folks find you and your content if they aren't already watching? Yeah, man. You can find me as CicoActivoPodcast on YouTube, Spotify, Instagram, Facebook, and on Twitter as Pavelibarrameda altogether, or CicoActivoPod on Twitter. I'll put all those links in the description for you as well, Pavel. But thank you very much for joining us, folks. There's lots of questions I got sent in. I'd love to have Pavel back on the podcast soon, and I'm hoping to be over on Pavel's show in the near future to discuss the book that I've not mentioned yet on the show. So I appreciate it, mate. And final apology for folks on YouTube, for the madridistas out there who have been unhappy at Pavel winning his Barcelona shirt for the entire recording. Extremely unprofessional. But yeah, thank you, Pavel. Always good talking, mate. And I look forward to your next video. Yeah. Thank you for having me, man. Have a good one. Bye, people. That is all for this episode. Thank you very much for tuning in. Don't forget to leave the podcast a review on your chosen platform. Apple and Spotify do make a huge difference to the algorithm. If you're checking the show on YouTube, please don't forget to like and leave a comment on here as well. Any sharing you do is very much appreciated on any social media platform. 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