(Pt.2) The Nazca Mummies: Red Flags & Revelations, (w/Will Brown)

This is a message from sponsor Intuit TurboTax. You've sent so many emails to your tax pro and nothing. It feels like you're chasing updates. But now your taxes are done for you by a TurboTax expert. So you actually know what's happening. You can match with an expert and just hand off all your tax stuff to them right in the app. So instead of guessing, you can feel confident your TurboTax experts on it. Now this is taxes. Intuit TurboTax. Visit TurboTax.com to learn more. Only available with TurboTax experts. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. This is Jim Simovan and you are listening to That UFO Podcast. Will, listener questions, let's kick off then, mate. So thanks to everyone who sent over some questions. I'm going to try and get through as many as I can. And it's an interesting one because this whole subject of the Nazca mummies, it's a kind of evolving conversation where something happens, something changes. I'd love your thoughts. I'm going to steal the first listener question from you, Will. So there's been different representations of this Nazca mummy saga, I'm just going to call it, okay? And we know perhaps the next step is going to be the Jesse Michaels involvement and the science being done, which is always a good thing. No matter where that science is being done, getting results and seeing how those take off. But how this has been portrayed. So we had the original moment where it was wheeled out, the body was wheeled out literally at the hearings in Mexico. The one Ryan Graves stormed out of. We have then had the raids by the government in Peru and, you know, the storming of the press conference and Jaime kicking off, all that kind of stuff. We have had then, it was moved to, it was LA, we had the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance group present. Well, it was an attempted presentation and I really don't mean to talk down deliberately about it, but it was poorly presented. The connections were horrendous. I don't know if you remember this. Did you try and watch it? The live streams. I did. I tried to watch it. Yeah. The live streams kept going down. The sound was poor. It looked like in one of the videos, they broke a finger of one of the beings, which wasn't a great look to a lot of folks. And it just had this, this kind of taste to it that it was almost tacky. I think for me, I'll speak only for myself here. It came across as tacky. And for me, if you've got something truly non-human, something potentially exotic, extraterrestrial, a missing piece of our ancestry, has this been handled badly? And I wonder from a historical perspective, historical professionals perspective, like yourself, Will, how would you have liked to have seen this handled, you know, differently to as it has been? Well, I guess there's two possible answers to the question. If these are hoaxes, like obviously, right? Obviously. But let's just say the proponents and everybody involved, you know, weren't a part of that, because I don't think they were. Like Jaime Mosson, a lot of people think that he hoaxed it. Jaime did not hoax this. He heard about this and came down. Right. So. And I'll just say, well, I had been told that as well from other folks. So that's not a secret. That's not classified or, oh, hush, hush. That's just no. The folks I know that were involved in investigating this, speaking to Will Gallison, Stephen Brown and co. Jaime Mosson was someone who came on board later. He wasn't sitting in the factory painting these things like a Warhammer, you know, object or statue. So I guess to answer the question. No, it wasn't handled perfectly, but I don't know how it could have been. This is crazy. No one was willing to also to to to be fair to the proponents. You know, people like to say like they're exploiting indigenous remains. No one will pay. No one was paying attention to them like they were screaming at the top of their lungs. Hey, this is really weird. And I will also say that I believe that the University of Ica. For what they have and the resources they have, I believe they're doing a good job of the preservation of these mummies. That doesn't mean the preservation is perfect. It's not. In fact, they're rapidly decaying. But this is the University of Ica. And I do believe those individuals are trying their best there. Now, the Hollywood disclosure thing. Yeah, that was like a mess that had a lot of technical issues. I don't know how the bodies were treated, but I'll just say, you know, I respect anyone for trying to get to the bottom of it. And so I am going to be watching Michael's documentary. And, you know, who am I to judge? You know, I hope that's not a cop out. But who am I to judge how this should have been handled? Like, this is unprecedented. If I honestly believe that if the Ministry of Culture would have been involved, these things would have disappeared. Like they would have been locked away. The story wouldn't have developed. So in one way, I'm actually very thankful that it got into the hands of, you know, this grassroots movement. Whether or not they made some mistakes along the way, probably. In fact, for sure. There's been there's been we know that some of these have been sold by the grave robbers. Right. Did they find them or did they make them is the question. But they have been sold. So without a doubt, these haven't been handled correctly. But as for the actual proponents, the doctors, the journalists that have been involved that are saying these are real. Well, I don't have anything bad to say about any of them in particular, because this is this is just weird. Like, who else would listen to them? What else were they going to do? There's not a lot of money involved with them in particular to try to preserve these things. You know, I'm sure that maybe there is a way to donate to the University of Ica so we can make sure these bodies don't just rot away. If you look at pictures of Maria when she was first found in 2016, she looks completely different now. She is definitely deteriorating. The diatomaceous earth is like going away. And so. I don't know, I'm sure it could have been done better, but I'm not saying I would have done better. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's not an unfair answer. And again, I'm looking forward to Michael's documentary. I only found out about that through the Jesse Michaels documentary showing the clips from it. So this is not a hoax. It's due out. It says late summer. I've messaged Michael Mazzola on X and hopefully gets back to me and we can arrange something on there. He does have a book out later in the year as well in December, which I'd love to speak to him about too. So if you're listening, Michael, perhaps get in touch, but otherwise hopefully speak to him soon on that. But over to the listeners, the real stars of the show here. Shelley says, so could some of the oldest ones be real NHI and later ones made up in order to honour them? And are you satisfied with the transparency of the scientific investigation so far? That is one of the proposed theories. That is definitely a proposed theory that some people have said, in particular, that the small ones were made up later to honour the actual NHI. And am I satisfied with it? Right now, the grassroots one, yes. So like the American science, I'm not satisfied with it because not a lot of progress is being made. But the few attempts that have been made have been pretty open source and open book about it. The DNA testing is online. All the scans, tridactyls.org are online. But let me back up again. Why aren't there scans of the giant heads? Are we just cherry picking which ones we want to scan and put out there? Because if we do know that there are fakes, those need to be put out there too. Let's not just put out scans of like the ones that are hard to explain. If there are, that's what I would say. My biggest critique right now would be those giant heads I keep seeing circulating around Twitter. Let's see what's actually underneath those things. Because the skull is like the brow on this thing. If that's an actual brow, like an actual bone, then boom. Okay, we have something completely different here. So why haven't we scanned those ones yet? And maybe it's because they know they're fake and they don't want to muddy the water more because you still have to explain Maria and Montserrat. But put it all out there. So, you know, I'd say when it comes to Dr. John McDowell and his team and Josh McDowell, I think they've done an excellent job of just being transparent. They were in the Jesse Michaels documentary. Josh McDowell, the lawyer, has gone on many podcasts telling exactly how he feels about these things. So that's pretty cool to see. So, yeah. Do you watch Rick and Morty? A little bit. A little bit, yeah. I'm not like a... I need to be... I feel like it's my type of show and I need to join the cult because... Yeah, it's very good. The early series, I've got an episode famous one about giant heads who turn up to Earth. And it's like Earth becomes a talent show for them. And it's like, show me what you got. And you've got to send someone up and just get that image. When you keep seeing giant head of the Rick and Morty heads doing the show me what you got. That's awesome. Perhaps some kind of YouTube thumbnail on that one, folks. Who knows? But yeah. But Shelley made the point, some of the older ones being real NHI or alien and later ones made up to honor them. Is that something from a history professional's point of view you could see being a legitimate explanation? And again, where else would we potentially see something like that throughout other civilizations or studies? I don't know if I'm even qualified to comment on that. And I'm sorry for the person that's asking. It's just that, you know, it's still such a... It's not just me. I'm just following up, Will, on that one to see, like, is that something that happens throughout that you'd be aware of? Yeah. So ancient civilizations all over the world made monuments and statues to honor their gods. And if these beings did exist in Nazca at the time, then I guess if they existed, it's a good explanation for maybe some of the smaller ones or some of the ones that have been shown to be manipulated. I believe there's a baby named Wawita, which is a baby tridactyl. And I'm pretty sure even the proponents say, like, yeah, this one was probably manipulated. But was it manipulated in a way to honor the gods? You know, I don't know. Does that kind of answer the question? Yeah, I get that. Yeah, totally. Mike wants to know, and this is a really obvious question here, but I'd like to know why it's so hard to prove if they are real or fake. I would have thought with all the imaging tech and methods analysis the experts have at their disposal, it would be solved in a week. If they were fake, wouldn't it be obvious to an expert in physiology, for example? Well, depending on who you ask, it has been solved. Half the... It's not half, but like a lot of scientists, even forensic scientists down in Latin America said they're real. They are real. Case closed. Dr. Salce Benitez, the former general, sorry, I think Surgeon General of the Mexican Navy, is convinced they're real. On the flip side, there are doctors and anthropologists that are saying, no, these are fake. There's obvious forms of manipulation. Right now, just like anything in 2025 with the internet, we have camps on the internet that are just in their own bubble, their own reality with this. That's why I'm like, is this ever going to actually... Like, could we have the most peer-reviewed document ever showing one way or another, and will there still just be two camps on this? I hope not. And there has been DNA testing done. One, I think a lot of it comes down to the stigma. It doesn't have to be like this in 2025, because if disclosure on this is happening, it's happening with the internet. But will Fox News and CNN and all those media outlets go over some peer-reviewed study and have some Neil deGrasse Tyson on to explain, oh, actually, I looked at the study and these things are real or they are fake? Like, you know, until that moment happens, you know, it's kind of just muddy. And you have two sides that are completely convinced of different things. Well, on that, I was going to say, well, just before you carry on, because Martin had a question which follows up, and I think you're kind of going into it now. Given the circumstances around how the public was informed about the mummies, which I kind of mentioned before, is there even a chance the scientific community will accept the data? If the data shows the mummies are real examples of an unknown species, either terrestrial or extraterrestrial and not a hoax. Okay, so in the scenario that you just proposed, I like that because you gave me like, because on this, there's two scenarios and you narrowed it down to the one scenario where they're not a hoax. Okay, I'm hopeful because of the actual scientists from America that are looking into this are rock solid. Dr. John McDowell, look up his credentials. He is one of the best forensic anthropologists, sorry, forensic scientists in the world. And then there's a team of forensic anthropologists that also came down with him to Peru to also look at this. So when I saw, when I announced on Twitter that, because I was there live, and I announced on Twitter to the English world that these three people were involved and here's their credentials, there were a number of skeptics, I can't remember all their names, you would know some of these guys better than me, but that were very skeptical of this. And even laughed at people like me going down there that tweeted out, okay, now we're getting somewhere, this is interesting, these guys are legit. And so if those guys come out and say, hey, like this is a new species and here's our published work on it, academics will respond to that. They will peer review their work. It won't just get lost in the dark. They're legit scientists and people will peer review it and we'll see how that peer review would go. That was the question. I got on the microphone at the press conference and asked them the exact same question that basically that guy asked, like, what do you need to see to confirm or deny? And he basically explained the peer review process. That was a good question. Yeah, I wonder, do you see it being the case that if Jesse Michaels and Cole can get this, I keep calling it really poorly, the science done that they want to do. Is that enough or do you see it having to be a kind of snowball effect where that then picks up other scientists, pick that up and then other scientists pick up and it has to be almost a snowball effect for people to go, oh, shit, there's something to this. I think we're in this. I think we've been in the snowball effect. Like, I think we're still rolling down that mountain that eventually that in the past has picked up Dr. McDowell and his team, right? We're still in that that snowball effect and it's getting bigger. So, yes, I do think it was a slow moving snowball and I do think it's starting to increase in speed now and velocity. It had a couple of questions for actually. So, there might be quite short answers. I'm just looking back over them. So, is any research being done properly on the metallic inserts on the small beings and were there any similar inserts on the other beings? Properly, I guess I would say that the initial investigation has, in my opinion, been properly done. You have an expert, multiple experts, you know, a dentist in one case who is very familiar with osseointegration saying this is osseointegration. Now, for it to continue to be properly, you need to have a peer review study on that. Does that make sense? And then to answer her other question, yes. The little ones are actually where the most – the little one is where Dr. – I apologize. Dr. Zuniga, the younger one, told me that they found this osseointegration. So, the big ones have them kind of all throughout their body, especially on their heads. The little ones have these rods right in their chest that supposedly have organic tissue fused to them is what's being reported. A follow-up from Kate was, was the llama DNA proven in the little beings' skulls? So, good question. So, I remember this. So, at one point there was a paper – I don't think it was llama DNA. I think it instead was a llama skull. There was a paper that was trying to show that the small ones had the back of a llama skull. And there was also an anthropologist down in Peru that had been saying this for a while and even showed examples. And they did look very similar. They did. And at one point, I believe, if I remember right, that paper came out saying, yeah, these look like llama skulls. And then one of the scientists came out and said, never mind, retracted his name from it, and now saying there weren't llama skulls. And so, yes, that was a thing. And actually, there is a video somewhere out there – I wish I could remember where it's at – that shows this comparison. And it does look similar. It does. As for the big ones, no. I've heard people say the big ones are llama skulls. No way. Big ones are skulls of a being, of a human, right? So, yeah. Kate also asks, how do you think that the non-binding and just elongated skulls, even newborns have those, might relate to these mummies? This is new to me. And it's so fascinating. I think Brian Forrester had a video down in Bolivia where he was claiming that they found a newborn infant skeleton with an elongated skull. And this is – elongated skulls, the way we understand it, is a process. So, if these infants are having elongated skulls, what's up with that? I don't know a lot about that, but I am just as fascinated with that as you. And actually, I will just say that the whole sutures and different anomalies with the elongated skulls that you can see at the Ica Anthropology Museum. You should go check them out. I think that should get another look. I think they did some work on that in the 90s, kind of showing, oh, we think they're normal homo sapiens that have just had these elongated skulls. Man, are we sure about that? Because they look unreal. They look completely different than elongated skulls you find in Mexico or Colombia where they – it probably was just homo sapiens that had that done. The ones down in Ica are unreal. We've all probably seen those photos before. So, I'm with you. We need to look into that more. And this question, I don't think you can answer, Will, unless you can prove me wrong here. But Kate asked, is Gary Nolan's lab going to approach these? Oh, Nolan. That was the guy. Okay, thank you so much. What's his first name? What's his full name? Gary. Gary Nolan. He was the one that responded to my tweet when I announced the scientists. And he was like, okay, now there's – I will say that there's some very interesting professions that are now looking into this. Hopefully, they can get to the bottom of it. And it was like a very nice tweet. He wasn't being snarky or anything like that. So, maybe if it's done by these people that he's publicly said that he respects – and Gary Nolan, if you're watching this, I think it was you. Somebody could fact check me on that. This is around the time of the press conference. I'm almost positive it was him, though. So, maybe. Maybe. I'm attending the Sol Foundation this winter in Italy. It's in Milan. I have never been. And given it's a little bit closer to home, I'm all booked up and I'm going. So, if anyone is going to the Sol Foundation in Milan this October, I'll be there. And it would be interesting to see if these are brought up within the couple of days of talks and presentations. Sol Foundation, the Sol Symposium is a very serious academic endeavor. And I wonder if we start to see anything like this creep in to those conversations, either publicly or privately. So, that's something I can certainly report back on anyway, folks, if that comes up. Yeah, for sure. That'd be awesome. HD HD says, I would like to know more about the metal implants. Has this ever been seen before? I'm presuming in other civilizations and periods of history. Why would we have it? Or does it imply an advanced species? So, we have seen it before. We've actually seen it in Peru. The Peruvians were thought to have been able to maybe do some smaller, less technical version of maybe like a brain surgery. And really, I think it comes down to that trepanation I was talking about. If there's any archaeologists, anthropologists out there that are just rolling their eyes at me right now, I apologize. But, yes, and we've seen other mummified humans from Cusco region, the Nazca region, with similar metallic implants. Now, were they osmium and cadmium, like Jesse Michaels is reporting? I don't know. I think, as far as I know, this is the first time we're seeing that type of metal. Does that answer the question? Yeah, yeah. And, again, it's that kind of stuff where I'm taking the experts when they talk about it. I think you said this as well, Will. You're taking them at face value and going, okay, you're an expert. You know what you're talking about. If they say to me, this particular implant is interesting because of this type of metal, the dating for it doesn't make any sense. What's the word you're using again about the fusing? The O? Osseointegration. Yeah, the osseointegration is really interesting. That's happening and this indicates a length of time and an interesting process that would be very difficult to do. All of that, for me, goes, cool. I'll tick boxes with that as well. Yeah. And to answer the rest, he asked if it would imply that they were advanced. Heck yeah, man, in their own way. Maybe not in the way we think of. A lot of people think of Atlantis as this incredible thing that was more advanced than us. But, you know, there's different ways to consider someone advanced. The Inca were incredibly advanced, but in their own way. Or that time. Like, for their time and their own way, they didn't have writing in the way that we have it. They were focused on other things. They had it in a different way. They had these ways that they would categorize things. I can't remember what they're called. But look at the ancient megaliths that are out there. Many people don't think the Inca actually built those. I think there's some good evidence that they did, and I'm going to do a series on that about my channel, about why the Inca probably did build Sacsayhuaman. But they were incredibly advanced. They were awesome. The Inca, and we're talking about two different cultures here, the Nazca and the Inca. But the Nazca people, you know, they were clearly doing, you know, some pretty interesting things down there. Look at the gigantic pyramids they built. Somehow they lived in a desert and had a flourishing civilization. For sure. Like, these people were smart. For sure. I have to sidebar quickly there, Will. I'd be remiss not to ask this. But do you think the Egyptians built the pyramids? This one. So I'm an America's guy. But I do like the work that, like, Robert Schock has done on the Sphinx in particular with the water erosion at the Sphinx, which shows that it might have been created around the time when that was a more lush kind of grasslands area that had a lot more rainfall. And so, gun to my head? Like, nah. Like, I think it's a little older. For sure. Cool. Good answer. Dennis asks, I love this question. Has Will seen or heard of any artifacts being found with the bodies, such as clothing, tools, are writing? Yeah. Okay. This one, I need to try to be careful because I don't want to get it wrong. I've just seen on Twitter people claiming that these huaceros, these grave robbers, were finding these artifacts with this ancient writing on them. And they looked fake to me. They looked fake. So that was another red flag. In fact, I should hunt that down and maybe add that to my video. So, you know, there's some stuff. Peru's just an incredible place. But there's a lot of things that have happened down there where these fake artifacts are sold. If you want to check out the Ica stones, this is probably going to upset a lot of people. A lot of people want to believe they're so real. I got a chance to see them. The Ica stones are these polished, beautiful black stones that have these intrinsic carvings, beautifully carved, that looks like it was done with, like, machinery. That shows humans and dinosaurs together and UFOs and even some tridactyl beings even. Like, and it was found in, like, the early 20th century. Like, over 100, like, nearly 100 years ago, if I remember right. And I don't think they're real. So, yes, I don't personally think so. But there's been claims that there has been. And I think it was products that they were trying to sell people. That doesn't mean that there's so many ways. There's so many angles to this. That doesn't mean that the bodies are fake. But the people involved that are promoting them, these Wakeros, these grave robbers, were definitely trying to convince people that they found some type of artifacts with writing on it. So. Was there a connection to orbs in the area or around these bodies or where they were discovered? Um, I can't remember if they're, well, I mean, the area of Palpa is like a UFO hot ground, for sure. That might have been what I was reading, yeah. I saw an interesting geoglyph while I was out there filming the documentary that my guide told me was a UFO shooting a beam down. And it's going to be the thumbnail of my, it's going to be in my thumbnail of my video making. And I'll have it on my video. So, to me, it just looked like a sun that was like, had rays of, you know, coming in all different directions. But that was really interesting, for sure. Definitely a UFO hot zone, though. Like, a lot of people report seeing stuff there all the time. Yeah. How do you feel about that with actually on the petroglyphs then? That's interesting that the guide's telling, you know, you've got this UFO and the beams are coming down. But then your brain is looking at it and interpreting it as a sun and it's the sunbeams coming down. Is there, how do you, because I, as much as I've got a UFO podcast, all that kind of stuff, and I really want stuff to be UFO centric and land on that side of the fence. But I like to think I'm pretty logical and I can look and go, well, actually, could it just be that? And the idea that, well, was it just the sun? Because that would make sense. Is there anything to that where you think the guide or others just want to see a UFO in it? Totally. We're humans, man. Like, we all have this bias. We all have one. And I'll even say, like, I think if you had to measure what I would like from this whole thing, I'd like to say I'm pretty balanced, but I think I'd probably lean to the side of, like, I want them to be real. Like, I want these to be real. Of course. Are you kidding me? This is insane. It would be, it would change everything. So, but I think we need to practice separating what we want from, you know, just observing reality, observing the story, and trying to really understand what the truth is. Because there are red flags. But, yeah, for sure that happens in everything. And that happens at the academic level, too. A lot of these scientists, a lot of these scientists or archaeologists, historians, they don't go into it without a bias. Everybody has a bias. We're human. It's okay to admit that, right? I think especially if the scientist in question has built up a certain narrative over years and decades, and something comes along to challenge that, and that doesn't just go for the UFO topic or cryptids or ghosts. It can go for much more mundane, scientific, academic, you know, equations for the love, yeah, math for the love of God. And someone questions it, they don't like that, and they look for a reason. Rather than be open and think, oh, this could be something new, something different, they almost take it as a personal slight that everything I've believed for 10 or 20 or 15 or 30 years, my whole academic career is in ruins because something's come along to change that. But rather than see it as an opportunity to go, let's pivot, let's take that path, and let's go and see where this goes, I don't understand. I'll use the example that if it came out tomorrow that Stephen Greer was in contact with an alien race of beings, and they were directly channeling through him, and that I should sign up to his app, you know, to get the best information in CE5, and I will join that cult. Scientology, if we find out Scientology is a true, genuine thing, and that Tom Cruise can levitate at the level he is at, I will join Scientology and crack on and praise Tom Cruise for not just being the wonderful actor that he is. You know, I'm willing to go down that route, but until you can show me, then I'm going to have my own bias, which might be right, might be wrong. But I do a lot of fence sitting on this as well, so I can't complain too much. Yeah, like you said, it's an opportunity. If you're actually being honest and you're trying to contribute to truth, your work wasn't in vain. If you had 20 years of a theory that you were trying to prove and someone disproved it, you helped advance science, history, knowledge. Absolutely. It's not a bad thing, but ego and hubris comes involved, and, you know, people will go after you for being wrong, and so people want to defend themselves. Yeah. No, for sure. If I genuinely believe I'm wrong on something, I'll delete a video and make a little post about it saying, I'm sorry. And social media is the worst for that, Will, and I've seen that online, especially the last few days. And someone makes a comment, a post, I've done it before, and, you know, the experts in the room jump in and, well, you got this wrong and you said this. And just recently I'd made the point that I made a comment around, you know, the TikTok, and I said, you know, if Dave Fravor's got a photograph or video on his phone of the TikTok, you know, why shouldn't we see that? And folks online were like, well, where did you hear that? And I'm like, oh, maybe I'm just conflating that with something else. But for me, it's not a big deal. But other folks took that as a, you shouldn't be putting out wrong information. I'm like, I'm not, I'm, you know, just, and I was like, yeah, that's fine. I don't think that's what it is. But what got you to that point? If I think that other folks will think that, thank you for correcting me. Thanks for getting it right. But other folks just see it as almost a personal battle to have to be right and have to prove everyone else wrong. And it just, yeah, it's welcome to the world of online in 2025. And it's not going to get better, folks. Especially long form content. It's long form content is incredible. But then you slip up one time and boom, it just ruins the podcast for somebody. Absolutely. They might listen to 80% of it and then they, something you said they disagree with. And so, yeah, and that's okay. I'm just a humble observer with an iPhone 16 Pro and a drone that likes to travel out to the deserts of Peru and ask people what they think about these three-fingered beings. How dare you make a mistake? I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not an expert here. Jakob asks, I feel like we've heard mostly about the larger mummies and the smaller reptilians. But if I recall, there was at least one insectoid specimen. Has anything more been learned about that one? Yeah, it has wings. If I remember right, it has wings. I don't know a lot about it, but you just reminded me of that one. There's a hundred of these. There's a hundred. The same for me. There's hundreds of these. So I was told by Jaime Mosen, and apparently this was breaking news when I released it on my documentary, that there were over a hundred different pieces of these in possession of some of these huaqueros. By the way, shout out to a channel, Pillars of the Past. If you want to see how much grave robbing happens in Peru, like go to that channel. He basically goes and finds these undocumented sites and they are just looted bodies everywhere from thousands of years ago. And so, you know, the red flag with the huaqueros that I pointed out, to be fair, I know there's shady people involved in this, but to be fair, if something like this would be found, it actually is more likely that a huaquero would find it before an archaeologist. Yeah. They're unearthed in way more bodies than all archaeologists combined in Peru. An archaeologist does their job correctly, with dignity, slowly. Well, they don't care about that. They're digging, right? They're digging and they're looking. And so it kind of makes sense. No different to a hacker hacking into NASA's online files and finding stuff, because you shouldn't be looking there. You shouldn't have been doing that. But yeah, let's just say Will's a researcher in the UFO community. He's trying to get sources and speaking to government officials and he's filing FOIA requests. He's not finding NASA's secret files, which are airbrushing out the huge UFOs behind the moon, for example. But the hacker online, as you're Gary McKinnon, for example, is finding the secret space armies that are out there, for example. And that's your huaqueros who are grave robbing. They're doing things they shouldn't be doing in places they shouldn't be doing it. So they're potentially going to find things that aren't meant to be found. Exactly. And on, man, on Pillars of the Past channel, his name's Raul. He's a friend of mine. He shows these huge elongated skulls just laying out there in the desert. Not in museums. Like, there's weird stuff in Peru. There's a lot of weird stuff. And the huaqueros do often get to it soon. As for those insectoids, man, that's where I'm just like, come on, really? Like, are these things real? Do we have scans of the insectoids? I think there are maybe some scans. But I want to see scans of those giant heads. I just want to emphasize that again. And I'm going to send you the photos so you can put it up. Yeah. The giant head, I feel like, is a slam dunk. The brow is so big. If it's true that what's underneath what we're seeing on the surface is like that, then, like, slam dunk. It's real, right? But why aren't they releasing any scans of that? Final question. And it's more of a statement. And I'll let you kind of finish up on this one, Will, because you've been really good with your time here. Dukes says, there have been forensic tests done and DNA tested. I watched a documentary on Gaia, which I got free for seven days. I then researched the net. It's heavily criticized by the establishment. I believe they are genuine anomalies which need to be in the public realm. Maybe, like many other conspiracies, the truth would challenge the power structure. Yes. And then, well, so, not yes as in, like, I agree with all that necessarily. But I agree with the idea of there has to be, in 2025, we have a unique opportunity with anything. Whether it's the truth about the pyramids, either way, right? The truth about the Nazca mummies, the truth. I just made a documentary, not a documentary, but a video that's blowing up on my YouTube right now called Way at Tlaco, the biggest archaeological cover-up of all time. And I detail this cover-up that happened in Mexico. And people are now asking questions. And, you know, if answers to this stuff is ever going to happen, sometimes it just takes some dudes that aren't archaeologists, that aren't worried about losing their tenure, that aren't worried about losing their job, to come and start making as accurate as possible content about this, telling the story. Because when there is an anomaly, it used to be able to get swept under the rug really easily. And whether it's fake or not, there were still questions that were never answered because, you know, people just lost interest. That's harder to do in 2025. So, this isn't going away. You know, it's not going away. In fact, we haven't seen the crescendo yet. We haven't seen the peak. It's building right now. You know, and I hope we get to the truth of it. But there's just still, and not to disagree with the person that asked the question, I would just caution you and just say that you should still consider some of the possible explanations for possible hoaxes. But I'm with you, man. There's some hard to explain things here. Well, you were one of the first to be making the content on this, on your YouTube channel, and doing the digging down there, Boots on the Ground, which I very much appreciate. And other folks out there will certainly do. Do you want to just let folks know how they can find you, how they can find your channel, and anything else you want to plug as we finish up? Yeah, just to kind of plug, you know, like Joes Montia is somebody that's been a journalist from Peru, if you want to find him on Twitter, because he was involved in this way before I was. There's also Gonzalo Chavez, and there's also Tridactyls is his name on Twitter. If you want to go check out what the proponents are saying, go check out those three guys. And then you can find me at Incredible History, at Incred History on YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. And, yeah, so shout out to everybody that laid down the groundwork for this. I'm just trying to communicate it in the best way that I can, trying to be partial here, trying to be, you know, reasonable about all this. It's crazy. This is wild. This is a wild topic. All three scenarios would be entertaining and fascinating, even if this ends up being a hoax. There's too many anomalies involved with this to just say, no, you're wasting your time down there. No way. I wasn't wasting my time down there. Are you kidding me? It's one of the coolest things I've ever done. Like, this is, this is, I'm so glad I went down there when I did. And I hope Jesse Michaels can help us get some good answers on this. And I hope the American scientists get what they need to properly analyze this as well. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time, folks. Check out the channel. Check out Will's content. A lot of interesting stuff in there. I know there's a lot of overlap in the subject in terms of history buffs people with that interest. And we have certainly overlapped here. So, awesome speaking with you, Will. And hopefully have you back on if and when we get those results from Jesse Michaels and any future digging, no pun intended, that you do into the topic too. I appreciate it, Andy. It's been awesome chatting with you today. Thanks, everybody. That is all for this episode. Thank you very much for tuning in. Don't forget to leave the podcast. A review on your chosen platform, Apple and Spotify do make a huge difference to the algorithm. If you're checking the show on YouTube, please don't forget to like and leave a comment on here as well. Any sharing you do is very much appreciated on any social media platform. And finally, you can listen to shows ad-free and sponsor-free in their glorious full versions by subscribing for less than the price of a coffee on Apple, Spotify. Just search That UFO Podcast Premium. YouTube, you can sign up and be a member. Or you can do that through Patreon.com. Thank you very much for listening, folks.