RamX | Fortean Winds: High Strangeness, Ufology, & Old Money

you're about to start the free first hour of a higher side chat show and before we get too deep into it there's a couple things to know version proves the value lays out what we can do it's just about an hour long but imagine hour two double your pleasure baby in the show notes all the bad guys that won eight bucks ain't what it used to be eight bucks don't get you much but it can't provide if you subscribe five full eight shows a month why would you deny yourself the joy of the second half light another joint and listen torch another sacred calf double your pleasure baby it's time to double your fun click the link right in the show notes or the bad guys that won we try to make it easy plus works with all the apps get a seven day free trial jesus says give plus a chance if you use spotify that's cool we can work with that just sign up through the patreon you dirty technocrat double your pleasure baby it's time to double your fun click the link right in the show notes or the bad guys that won we try to make it easy plus works with all the apps get a seven day free trial jesus says give plus a chance we try to make it easy plus works with all the apps get a seven day free trial jesus says give plus a chance serenity now dear people of the internet from the sunshine state i'm greg carlwood and while we play politics absorb entertainment and silence our internal screams for a more meaningful existence right on through our morning commute might it be possible that on a hidden level of reality that humans rarely see we're being watched studied and maybe even farmed in a curated free range environment for some para ultra crypto terrestrial higher order of beings few thoughts are more unsettling than something else out there so far beyond our own ability that it might have even engineered our own limitations spawned religions for fun with dramatic displays and toyed with millions of people over the culmination of the human story while the rest of us dismiss their experiences in mass might we be food energetic nourishment or just play things for advanced shape-shifting sentient light beings living right alongside us undetected and unacknowledged as we obsess over a 24-hour news cycle and a never-ending string of distractions well few people have done more to advance these ideas as well as the wide range of bizarre anomalous happenings throughout history than charles fort even spawning an entire field of study in high strangeness category all his own and today's guest rom x knows this all too well as he's been engaged in such research for years much of which is talked about on his website and podcast aptly titled 40 and wins the 40 and wins podcast ran for four years and concluded not too long ago with some very interesting insights from rom x that i asked him to come here to talk to me about and wouldn't you know it here we are so let's go people the 40 and wins researcher ultra terrestrial investigator and high strangeness sleuth rom x welcome to the higher side my man hey greg thanks for having me so glad to be here yeah thank you for doing this as you know i went to pop on the most recent episode of 40 and wins one day and was surprised to hear you say it was ending but that last episode would be a deep dive into your own final conclusions about ufology and all things related and a lot of these conclusions were similar to my own but went much further and contained provocative comments here and there that i just wanted to hear more about but one of the big things i think we both agree on is that we're dealing with something much closer to home maybe something that is a form of sentient light or plasma at its core is that right that's correct yeah so the russians think that you know i mean their science team seems to think that at least one form of this is intelligent plasma and it's a good guess what we see is uh or what people report is a ball of light and then that ball of light becomes something else in many cases you know not all sometimes things show up that are looking physical it is funny how people try to logic out what's happening but for example in a lot of bigfoot cases you'll have people who write entire books where a ufo is present during bigfoot encounters and so then people think oh well bigfoot must be flying this spaceship from somewhere else out in space and it's like no no no maybe it's a projection maybe it's a shape shift of some kind and maybe they're always present but are only noticed in a handful of cases it becomes so apparent at some point in the research i think as you're going into it i mean i would love to see a race between the mothman and bigfoot in ufos i'd pay lots of money for that the fact that these beings are cryptids or sometimes they're just crazy looking ufonauts right the case of carl higdon i think is a great example of something that showed up looking like a five-year-old druid like oh i want a hook for an arm and i want another arm on here and it was like something having a good time and i think i like keel's work best when he really identifies that when he really dives into that when he notices the absurdities just like valet does but keel takes it a little bit further and he says okay this is what this phenomenon is i think we often get lost a phrase that i really like to use with the phenomenon is simple definitions and that's something that police officers use they say simple definitions and it's a problem because police officers are always saying well that guy looks like a criminal and maybe harass him but often they're right that's why they do it and that's not to say any of that is correct but simple definitions is what police usually operate on and they do that because it's usually correct right it's not a bad idea in this case because i found that the more i try to narrow in on a tighter definition the quicker someone throws a case at me that's like well what about this it didn't happen over here and it's like yeah okay sure let's broaden out a little bit exactly we could find 25 different reptile soul sucker cases and then we go oh there's gray huggers it's all over the map and one thing that people will do that researchers will do is cherry pick and then they go oh well only the reptile ones are real and the gray huggers are all just people making stuff up so we tried to really avoid that at 14 wins and so we created a standard of evidence and that's in our about section if anyone's curious but that's how we went about evaluating cases because i think you have to start using common sense simple definitions and common sense i don't have to worry about harassing anyone until the phenomenon sues me or something i don't know so i can use the simple definitions when it comes to the phenomenon and they're often correct i think like in the case of say the nimitz encounter in the tic-tac right and i think that that one's really important because for me that was the extraordinary evidence case carl sagan used to say right extraordinary claims take extraordinary evidence the extraordinary evidence is all there in the tic-tac case you have instrumentation lots and lots of witnesses multiple instances i mean there's no more that you could ask for and it wasn't until i think 2019 when the navy admitted that that video was real that i finally said oh okay maybe you know and then looked into it and when i looked into it i took about a month to evaluate the tic-tac case let's go through the math let's go through the witnesses let's start asking questions of people from the government and you do have a background as a data analyst and a technologist you said which you know maybe needs further flushing out but why do you think that you might be someone who because of your regular professional background might have a deeper insight into analyzing material like this yeah it's tricky i don't like to talk about my background the main reason that we don't talk about our backgrounds at 14 wins is to keep our egos out of it and there's so much of that in the ufology field right an influencer is someone who oftentimes gains the confidence of the audience and that could be appropriately given or not so we said we're not going to be influencers when people come to 14 wins we want you to focus on the information i'm pseudo retired now as you pointed out so i can share a little bit i do have a background as a technologist i have worked in private and sometimes public i have some background of working with classified material but nothing uap related so otherwise i couldn't talk about it but that was a long time ago however it did give me those two things together like having some government knowledge and then having a lot of technology experience has landed me in a lot of different places and gave me some contacts and i think it gave me some of the skills to help you know take this on in my way anyway there's a lot of different ways to look at this phenomenon as you've had some great guests on like pasolka and you've had miguel connor on looking at it from completely different directions peter lavenda like none of those people could care less about the propulsion of these crafts which was what really drove me at first and that was going to be one of my questions for you because you start off that podcast talking about light beings that need physical matter to interact in our environment they can change things around they can shape shift themselves and then you go into how they fly and you say it's counter rotating magnets which is a common conclusion around here even gerald pollack the water scientist towards the end of our interview made some comments about the earth's negative charge that's just there naturally and that you could use that as a basis for creating a technology that counteracts that charge which is essentially we're talking about magnetism so that's there but you know when you're talking about light beings and then moving to how these crafts fly using magnets now we're getting into technology and i guess i don't see the jump because it seems like these beings don't need any technology as we know it are you talking about our own crafts when you say that some of the reverse engineering that's been done my theory and it's backed by the evidence but as you know we always have to be careful with the fact that we can make theories fit the evidence right but my theory it echoes belay and keels which is when it wants to play in our space it's creating things it's creating physical objects and those physical objects i don't know what all of the rules are in terms of those objects but i know that in terms of the magnetism i'll share a little bit about how i came to that conclusion because we didn't get into that and it's really through the medical evidence and there's just a lot of bodies that have been affected by craft that were too close and so analyzing the medical evidence and then analyzing it against all the different types of propulsion that we thought might be the case that was the only one that matched up and that's how we came to that conclusion if you were to peer review that you know with your harvard astrophysicists they would throw you out of the bus well i am interested how magnets affect the human body because we often hear radiation associated with this stuff that that is the cause people even go into biblical stories of people being turned into a pillar of salt and that kind of thing and they speculate that well that might have been an interaction that was too close to one of these light beings or something but i thought magnets were fairly harmless i mean i know an mri is using magnets but talk to us a little bit deeper about that right there's a couple of things going on here one of the things that when you talk about radiation in relation to this the one anomaly among the anomalous energy signatures that were left on people from these craft is gamma so i'm theorizing i mean it seems to be logical that it's some form of fission that's powering the magnets and it's a unique form of fission that we don't understand or the public doesn't understand and that is how people can get irradiated by standing too close but then keel had a theory and it's interesting and there's a couple of interdimensional ways that that might be happening but his theory was that once you brought these things into physical reality that they would begin to decay because they're not physically real so as they decay they would give off radiation that makes sense so you mentioned to me mac tony's the author of crypto terrestrials and it's funny because when i started this show like 13 years ago at this point one of the first times someone was brought up who i was like oh man i'd love to interview them but they're dead it was mac tony's in an interview with nick redfern and he got me thinking about why should we trust these beings that point to the stars and say that's where they're from when maybe it's the exact opposite and they are from underground and i was like oh man this is right up my alley but of course he passed and i've read the book it's been about a decade now but what did you get from mac tony's and that crypto terrestrial book that you fit into your overall puzzle part of it was the timing of when i encountered some of these things and it was in the course of the research and we had just been finding tunnel after tunnel near the sites that with high uap activity so naturally you're like are they living underground that's not a crazy question even the et folks you know have all sorts of underground lore there's a possibility there and it doesn't really matter their point of origin to me i think that that question gets in the way of the research so the point of origin whether they're from another dimension or from the inner earth or from here maybe they were former humans the point of the story is their capabilities so when i sort of redefine ultra terrestrials for 14 winds which is we're referring to the capabilities they have and so they had these capabilities and they had these tunnels and then when i found tony's work it was just so much parallels between what we were finding and what he had found 15 years ago or 20 years ago and he had done a really good job of i thought taking valet's work further and really challenging it and doing it in a very respectful peer-driven way because valet is probably the greatest ufo researcher of all time but he doesn't have it figured out it's up to the rest of us he's got some stuff figured out but in terms of tony's work and specifically what speaks to me is the frequency of the tunnels the frequency of the craft the frequency of the population the ufonauts you know these things are happening every day ufo instances are happening every day if they're here that much they're not visitors so they're here in one sense or another and then we find physical evidence that there was traces of a civilization underground the nask of mummies you know there's tons of tunnels in peru and we've been diving into that more connection between megalithic structures and tunnels and non-human bodies yeah and in that last episode you even said don't fully discount the things tom de long says which you know was a bit of a head scratch for me i mean the reality is that he's gonna have some good information i don't know what percentage of it is good information but you know him and a couple other guys have this carnival barker personality type or something just doesn't strike me as a resonant but he did say in the joe rogan interview he's like well you wouldn't even believe the real story and he's like well just tell it to me and you know which is another thing is everyone's like i can't even say because people aren't going to be able to deal with this information i really hate to be babied like that but he said well it goes all the way back to atlantis and an advanced civilization after a big cataclysm got off world or went underground and they were so advanced that they just broke off and then you're getting into richard dolan's breakaway civilization stuff and i you know i don't know if it rings true to me but the hopi and a lot of cultures do have legends of hey it's time for a cataclysm and some advanced being came and took us underground so we could survive and that stuff's interesting but when you mention former humans and then also light beings it's like well there is this trope of humans being able to advance themselves to a degree that they become pure light it's always been in like spiritual stuff and the mystical stuff and that's just curious and if advanced civilization did crack this code of becoming light well maybe they're still around they still consider this somewhat a home but they're so far removed from humanity that we interpret them as something so bizarre they must be from outer space i don't know but it's like there's not a lot of other things that we have this mysticism tradition of you can advance and become green slime you know it's like it's it's light so it is interesting that there's a hit there somewhat so two things there de long and then we'll get back to the inner part of that so de long he is an asset that's the definition of an intelligence asset and i think even in pasolka's american cosmic she clearly recognizes the fact that she's being recruited by tim taylor as an asset their assets right and they can be aware of it but then they're fed information and we don't know which part is true and which isn't and they don't either how would you so when it comes to de long i think the things that i find that he's saying that match up with what we found in 14 wins are the same things that gary nolan is saying because they're based on evidence you know those are evidence-based ideas and that's the same evidence that we're looking at so they start to deal with things like non-local consciousness which other people don't want to deal with and it's part of the phenomenon and then they wrap that into okay how does that fit into remote viewing how does that fit into things like astral projection and that is where the research goes and i think it can go there scientifically it's a blending of esoteric ancient ideas and modern science because our ancestors were having contact with this thing and they didn't understand quantum physics so the methods and the ability to contact and manipulate this thing may not rely on our scientific acumen and so when de long and gary nolan and his crowd you know belay is part of that crowd too right they kind of take their cues from belay and then apparently the from what i understand the government does as well that should scare the hell out of everyone because if they're teaching belay in the cia that's as far as they got so that's concerning right it's not that i think anyone's got it all right including the government it's the fact that we're clearly sipping from the same spring so tom de long is getting good information gary nolan is giving good information jacques belay gives good information that crowd is tuned into some good stuff so to that extent i think he's correct when he starts going off about atlantis how would you know that right right that's probably just the stuff he hears from these guys who also are heavily speculating but gary nolan obviously you knew i was going to bring up gary nolan for people who aren't as familiar he's big in the current scene he's an immunologist oddly he seems genuine to me he says he's fueled by his own uninvited experiences with these ultra terrestrials as part of a family of experiencers he confirmed that he is james from diana posolka's american cosmic and i watched an interview where he gave some more details so for those listening he once saw a ufo fly over as a paper boy you know paper boys are out there at twilight at four or five a.m doing their thing so he saw something there he once woke up with a buzzing message in his head that said this is how you connect and he asked it to stop and it did he saw little men in his room as a boy and when he saw the book communion he recognized that as a match the being on the cover and then this is where it gets weird with his work as an adult he says he was asked by the cia to analyze blood from uap experiencers because he had some of the most advanced and sensitive equipment for doing so that made me wonder about blood plasma but he also mentioned some research about white matter in people's brains seen on mris scar tissue he speculated attempts to dampen parts of the brain to allow for more sustained contact maybe something these beings are doing to the people to be like hey the signal's not very strong let me get into your head and make some changes and now the signal is much stronger that's freaky he also mentioned ufos spilling out molten metals and plasmas and in one case he said if it's hit with terahertz frequency it levitates and then the interviewer said well tell me more about that and he said specifically i cannot say more about that that is what i can say and so you called him saint gary which i i like a lot because there is a spirituality to all this and it is almost like a religion but when it comes to gary nolan talk to us a little bit more about what you think his role is how trustworthy is he what does he say that really lights you up so gary is a gift to the ufo phenomenon or to the public disclosure efforts around the ufo phenomenon because as you point out his credibility is through the roof he's a brilliant scientist he's from stanford so he's got that ivy league cred he's rich so he's got context that we couldn't even imagine and that's enough to piss me off right there's a few of those that it's enough to piss me off but i try not to be resentful i'm just happy that he shares the information but with all of these folks too i just want to caveat this before i go on some effusive praise of him is that like when it comes to all of these folks if they're not telling us everything then let's move on let's go find the information ourselves like if that's all you have to say i appreciate you saying it bob bigelow gary nolan jacques belay himself if that's all you got to say i appreciate you telling me let's move on so that's kind of how i feel about that effort going on there because like the soul foundation is trying to influence the government on our behalf and you know god bless them but i'm more interested and i think the real information is going to come from us doing the research ourselves and sharing it as far as how great he is you know he's done so much important research that i think supports belay's conclusions so when he did some material analysis and he put out some scatter plots i mean the inhomogeneous mixing of the materials so that's like normally we build with legos and someone uses legos like their finger painting that's not bad i just that was a star trek moment i like that analogy yeah it's good that's what they're doing there and then when he talks about the materials and the materials left behind that's interesting but they're not sharing that material data and i also don't know the provenance of the material so if i don't know the evidence i'm not going to take it at face value from anyone even st gary keel thought that though keel thought that when cryptids cases when the cryptid was done being physical that they would degrade into something resembling silicon carbide but i was never able to prove that either let me couch that a little bit keel was something of a trickster and he would often say things that were sort of metaphorical but he knew they were in the right direction he would say them with confidence and they turn out to be wrong but you end up learning they're in the right direction which might be the entire mothman process when it comes to gary and the bodies i think that that is really impactful so he's talked about the caudate putamen being a key to determining who gets affected by the phenomenon and people who he tested had an unusually large caudate putamen he'd had a very small sample when he did this but he said the results were statistically anomalous and so it felt pretty solid to him but he said that caudate putamen and we don't know why certain people get affected by the phenomenon and others don't and i think that that is so central to us trying to understand what this is fully is that two people can be in the same location encountering the same energy and come away with completely different experiences and the experiences are solid you know the provenance of the information is solid they seem to have both experienced something different in the same location so how the hell does something like that happen scientifically yeah you start to wonder but it's like people say just with consciousness they say well it seems like consciousness is primary and our bodies are a receiver of consciousness and so if you're talking about a signal and a receiver well there can be all kinds of different aspects of that signal how strong is the signal we've all gone through a tunnel in our cell phone obviously that affects the signal so when you're talking about things in those terms the signal can be five times stronger for someone else it can sound completely different it can look completely different so i do think that's the right context to talk about this stuff and maybe there's a physical part of a person's body the wiring of their brain that changes the antenna and what it can receive and how strong the signal is well put i think all of those things are well supported by the research not just the anecdotal cases but even some of the physical evidence we've seen this happen repeatedly and it also ties into the hitchhiker effect so for those who don't know what the hitchhiker effect is the most common example and i think the best one is when people have a ufo sighting and they go home and they experience something like poltergeist activity and this is not uncommon it's the norm it's uncommon for you to go out there and see a ufo and go home and not have something happen you know if you're seeing it in close proximity and it's an intense encounter you're very likely to go home and have some weird stuff happen yeah and it's interesting to think about it in the receiver context because if these are conscious entities they might have a mechanism to once they grab an antenna they don't want to let go and they don't have to let go perhaps were you marked were you branded that's ultimately where that goes i agree and i think when we look at abduction cases with that in mind and we hear what they say boy it sure sounds like another form of confirmation that that's true agreed so i sent you this list of some of the comments you made that i wanted to have you elaborate on just so that you'd have time to gather your thoughts but you also sent me one of your articles in response to that lots of great ones on the site but this one starts with the author's note we've been sitting on this observation forever didn't really know what to do with it still don't but here's the sitch there was mysterious megaliths enigmatic elongated skulls and human sacrifice in malta and nazca at a time when humans had somewhat abandoned the practice then the nazis came along and built a crypt suspiciously similar to the one in malta what does it mean not sure yet but the fact that all of these things involved uap occult or shamanic practices and two out of the three sites involved human sacrifice the third involving mass genocide so i do say that counts but it is weird and i agree you say it's very weird and i would like some help in uh trying to understand what you're seeing with these similarities or what do you think the connective tissue is there let me go back one further to the alien abductions the switch article and that one discusses the brain effects of people who are in a shamanistic trance state where they have been measured and then they have been studied and they are all saying that they're experiencing alien abductions there's a paper written by norman don and gilda mora that we talk about a lot again it's a small sample i think they surveyed a hundred people in brazil who were experiencing that effect right so they have this 40 hertz signal appearing on their prefrontal cortex and they're in this hyper aroused state that is also hyper focused all of those things are super important and that ties right into the occult because this is what i think the mechanism is the connective tissue between say shamanistic practices religious people who experience this and the occult experiences is i think the connective tissue is there it's that 40 hertz signal that's happening in the brain where you're in this hyper aroused state and you're also super focused so there's multiple ways to get into that state there's meditation there's psychedelics and then binaural beats we talk about a number of them and i would assume that there's a technological way to do it and if you were the government and you figured that out you'd be working on that right so that i think is the connective tissue and that's one of those things i'm not like keel i won't tell you that that's the exact right answer i'll tell you i think that's in the right direction i'm quite sure and that is where the switch is because we've seen abduction cases that are physical and we've seen abduction cases that are psychic and why would we believe a psychic case why would we think that they're not just having a bad dream and it's because they have ptsd after and the ptsd is the same as someone who i was physically missing and was the victim of a physical abduction case this has been noted by john mack and harvard psychiatrist who did all this research too so it's not just shooting from the cuff that really happens so in that state you could encounter something you're far more likely to encounter something one of the things i mentioned in that last episode is that i think that's what happened with the mormon church and that joseph smith was staring into a scrying stone or it's like a crystal like being a crystal ball gazer right for those who don't know it's sort of like remote viewing you stare at it for long enough and something shows you something in this case smith was looking for treasure which is self-serving by the way and he ends up running into an entity and it's a very weird story the entity keeps telling him to come back and keeps playing with him it sounds more like what we find in authentic anomalous 14 cases so i think he probably did and it was something to do with that state in that state you're receiving a signal and that's the exciting thing to me because now we've found what might be the antenna all we have to do is shut off the signal if we wanted to or turn that baby up or turn it up that was another piece of information we sat on for a while because we said well if we tell people how to turn it off they're just going to turn it up and you're probably going to get seven people turning it up for every three people that turn it off but i'm starting to wonder if that's a good reason to hold anything back there's some other stuff that we've just been sitting on it's not that we don't tell people the information it's just that maybe we don't give them all the means to go find more of it on their own because we don't know what people are going to do with it there really is a harms race for this stuff yeah but that again gets back to like i don't like to be babied and i don't like to worry about what other people are going to do with information that comes from just a conversation we're just a couple of guys talking if someone wants to hear the word human sacrifice and go off and do some crazy stuff how could that possibly have anything to do with us what would you say you might be sitting on or what's an aspect of this that people who have been looking into it like myself and yourself and a lot of this audience is familiar with the field of ufology through the 80s and 90s and so on read several books on it what do you think that you might be sitting on that you just don't hear talked about all that much but you think is important i think the tunnels recently that's been something that has really jumped out at us the fact that these tunnels these ancient tunnel systems exist they exist in europe they exist in south america they exist in north america and then there's probably a bunch that we haven't found so i think that that could use more attention and then i think that there's ways to communicate with this phenomenon and that if we're going to get serious in the public about us understanding it more the only way to do that is going to be through communication as you say many people have read books on this subject and you know if you've read valet like one of his bigger ones is messengers of deception and that's a really good one to read and a super important point because these things are deceptive we just don't know where they're from or what their agenda is because they're always coming in and saying something different and i think it's a huge problem in the ufo field right now where people just grab on to one of those things and they say okay this is the answer it's lazy and it's misinformation we don't know yeah and that's why i said turn up the signal i don't personally want to do it but i want people to do it so that more communication comes through and you mentioned the elongated skulls i'm curious about that so greg little and andrew collins have a book called denisovan origins and that's really interesting because they think the denisovans were more the shamanic race of humanoids that maybe their brains were wired to get to that place easier and then we just kind of observed what they were doing and then they died out are you kind of saying something similar like the elongated skulls was maybe not aliens that's usually what people say the practice skulls were aliens or hybrids but you're saying maybe they are just another type of human and maybe their wiring was such that they were more connected it's going to get a little confusing but they all have elongated skulls so going back to that article you mentioned about the megalithic structures and the elongated skulls so at malta elongated skulls were found and those were another type of human those were the hal safini skulls and they've been you know shuttered away for about 10 years but they were studied and a scientist came out and said it's a very dry short paper we put in the article it says these are real they don't have cranial metting or head binding which is how we would elongate our skulls and how native tribes do it today they don't have any of that and they're elongated and they're still another type of human so those were found around malta right and then there you find a bunch of human sacrifice at a time when people weren't really doing a lot of human sacrifice human sacrifice kind of was shut down around mesopotamia and sumer and one of the reasons was zoroastrianism so you know we came out with this monotheistic religion this god doesn't want you to do that so you don't have to do that anymore and that's probably something that the hebrews were inspired by when they started their own religion and so i think that that history is a little bit important because if human sacrifice and the phenomenon are related and that is a way to develop some sort of contact or manipulation of the phenomenon maybe that's what was happening all the way up until mesopotamia and sumer it's possible we don't know but what we have is evidence of human sacrifice evidence of these sort of occultic or shamanistic like traditions and then we have elongated skulls and we also have an incredibly high amount of uap activity at those locations even to today so we have different elongated skulls though because the beings in nazca which there was just another dna test done i think two weeks ago and they look clearly manufactured and we were kind of hypothesizing about that on the 14 wind show when we did our nazca moment episode and i said i don't think that these beings any of their dna will match but they're all going to look similar and it's telling you that something just makes stuff on the fly right and it uses whatever it has around to make it that's what it looks like to me i agree and i've said for a long time that the ufologists and the occultists need to have a powwow together because in both cases you're talking about people who see things either directed or undirected you know ufologists and people who are experiencers it seems random to them but then you have people who can trigger it by making a pentagram on the ground and what shows up usually something very bizarre that defies any category and oftentimes is a being of light at its core or it shows up in that form often and it probably gets right into that 40 hertz range of you work yourself up with the robes and the chanting and the rituals and you somehow get there and you can say well this is more real because i didn't take mushrooms well i mean there's again many mechanisms to get you to that state and it's directed so obviously it's easier to study but there's just some kind of blockage there but i think that there's a huge overlap and that kind of leads me to the other thing i was going to ask you about which is when asked the question who controls this stuff who really knows what it is at its core you said something i didn't expect you said old money and that's right up my conspiratorial alley but again with with old money like even if you're studying the occult these people they look at the old money and they see whispers and illusions that you know there's something up there there's some kind of science of magic that these people know and preserve and don't really share and so it just again speaks to the overlap of this phenomenon with old school families you know the richest of the rich but talk to us about that connection when you say old money very provocative but what did you mean by that yeah it's possible they have some sort of secret traditional knowledge this idea does run adjacent to those conspiracy theories you could look at it as one more possible form of confirmation but what i can say for sure is that these families have more knowledge of the uap phenomenon than the rest of us right who are those families it's big money and big science that really gets to see this stuff and really gets to dive into it and big money uses big science to get there so big science is nasa the nro department of energy and then it's also these labs so you have oakridge national labs you have radiance you have lockheed skunkworks and northrop those are places where i have seen evidence that there's some uap activity going on so who owns those places you know how they start who owns the process right and the process is owned by the cia of course matt ford and some other folks put out a pretty good article a while back indicating that it was the office of global access that had a lot of power associated with uaps so some of these big money families were around when the cia was founded david grush brought this up in his right on the floor of congress you know these big money families the mafia and the vatican were all around when the cia was founded and that's important because they all knew without getting too deep into the conspiracy side and saying they're all dressing up in robes or something look they all knew they all knew that ufos existed all the way back in the 1930s and they have known now for almost 100 years so what they've been able to do with that knowledge we can only imagine and they're the only ones with access to it big money and big science are the only ones with access to that knowledge so if there's something in there that can save their grandma doris and not your grandma doris i guess their grandma doris wins or zero point energy or any number of things time travel has been brought up as a possibility i mean do you trust these people with time travel i don't know so who knows what it could be the point is that it's advanced technology and they're the only ones with access to it and then they have access to something else something that carl nell who was david grush's boss brought up during a salt conference he did and that's an excellent piece of video there if you want to look up on youtube carl nell's salt conference and he talks about a couple of things in there that i think are really important and for one he says that everyone has a right to know this because this is your reality so someone keeping it from you is just wrong like if you have morals that's just wrong that's one number two is this can advance our science can advance our species so to keep it hidden is it's insidious and i think big money keeping this hidden for their own benefit obviously and then there's religion that gets involved so who are those families those let's name names the rothschilds the bushes and that's george hw and junior the rockefellers it's the duponts and the last one i think is most important it's the melons and so chris mellon is obviously a big influential figure in the uap field he's pushing for disclosure and he may be the chosen one from their side the guy who's coming over and says hey this is wrong our little clique has been keeping this amongst us for too long and it needs to come out might be when it comes to like elizondo and mellon and jay stratton and all those guys that are coming out of intel and then telling us stuff i think we should take it in stride we should say okay as long as it plays out as true they're telling the truth because we've been waiting for people like this to come forward from the government so it's only natural that people attack them and that they're critical of them but we just need to be measured as we do i think so far melon and elizondo and stratton and that crowd have been honest to the extent that they can be and that annoys the hell out of people because they're not being honest about everything i think that's a pretty good summary and i know you have another article where you talk about the jackpot of the right person meaning that their antenna is tuned to receive and then the right time and the right space and we know that it seems as if there are areas where if you have contact repeatedly it becomes easier for contact to occur at those places so i think about the whole lineage of occult orders and rosicrucians and freemasons and this stuff and if you have rooms like even the skull and bones if you have rooms where people are calling these beings for a couple hundred years like it probably gets a lot easier for them to be called in these locations and that's why i think there's this occult stuff with the elite families is that has been their mechanism of contact that's how they've dialed up the phone and they've maintained this contact for a long time the speculative bit and i'm curious what you think about this is what could be gained from that communication so you mentioned technology sure they might be able to through seeding ideas to the people giving them all the keys to jailbreaking reality through science and through different avenues and different methods of physics that really don't get advertised publicly free energy all that kind of stuff but is there more like could they know about things that aren't technologically based like the real origins of humanity it seems like we can get into the religion stuff it seems like they might seed religions but do you think that there's other mechanisms of wealth preservation for these families how much can these entities affect our reality and would they even do so on behalf of elite families who maintain some kind of relationship like what do you think the give and take is between these people at the highest levels that's a really good question so i think that first of all when it comes to the entities let's talk about the nh i first they don't seem to be manipulated easily and when people think that they're manipulating them they're being manipulated so do i believe that these rich and powerful people have figured out a way to get around that no i don't i think the entities are too powerful so they're probably having contact they're probably i say that with some sense of certainty because they have the ability and they've had a hundred years do it so they're probably having some sort of contact but we've talked to people both of us who had contact with this phenomenon and i had some sort of experiences they were subtle you know people talk about it being a feeling and a download and information just comes flying at you and that's more what i subjectively experienced it wasn't something that felt physical and it came with an emotion and feeling it didn't come just as information it was all of the above so are they experiencing that have they found a way to tap into that probably and does that give them an advantage i think it certainly would but it also puts you uh prone to manipulation right puts you prone to manipulation these entities who's manipulating who that was one of the reasons when we put down 14 wins i said i have to walk away from this for a while it was starting to happen more frequently and i said i don't know what this is i have no idea and i don't know if it's good or bad and all the things that i've researched about intent and i had to take a big step back and find that connective tissue that you've appropriately brought out today get it back to science somehow you know with the 40 hertz and the brain activity being consistent i had to understand and go okay well this is probably what's happening it's not magic words it's nothing like that you know and i don't think it's the ritual itself in any of these cases but some of the process involved in the ritual is super important like pentecostals so we interviewed a person who had witnessed a possession supernatural possession and that was the weirdest week of 14 wins by the way people talk about how your technology starts breaking and stuff when you're researching that's it happened some of the subjective things that people talk about i can say that they happen to us like synchronicities and certain things like that but the possession stuff it's operating on that same level and so this guy was in a pentecostal church or a pentecostal meeting when it happened and all of the stuff that he had seen was around pentecostals chris bledsoe who is the most famous ufo contact to you today is a former pentecostal too so i would look at pentecostal it's just another shamanistic tradition right so the way i sort of simplify this there's a great haunting setting that was done by the editor of the journal of scientific exploration jim horan and they had 20 papers that they put together and tried to find similarities between people who experience haunting stuff and they found four core characteristics i would recommend reading up on that but we've simplified that into three so it is person place and time and to be the right person it can be a variety of things you know i look at this more like seo on the internet do you have a lot of pictures and video google will rank you higher or your keywords right okay google will rank you higher for that so it's a scale that can take in a lot of different inputs but as long as those inputs reach a certain level person place and time an experience happens so as you point out you can create a space where it makes those things more likely to occur and you can become more the right person by continuously putting your brain into that 40 hertz state and now it's easier for you to get there and then time boy that's an interesting one i'd love to figure that out we've been doing some work on that that's right up the data analyst alley a funny little story was when i first started within months i figure out the tic-tac encounter is real and then i start talking to some people and they wouldn't tell me anything about the ufo phenomenon they just said dude there's something there i was like are you effing kidding me ufos i mean it blew my mind i went into the ontological shock of my life years ago and completely did a 180 in my life and it changed me drastically and i think that that's an interesting feature of this phenomenon we've been recently writing about pattern maintenance and pattern disruption because i think that's why it gets involved in religion religion can be used as both a pattern maintenance and a pattern disruption tool and even this uap phenomenon it echoes religion at times and i have to be very careful that i don't allow it for me right yeah i mean that's what diana pisolka is all about you know that this ufology thing spins off into basically religions and it is interesting because if i think back to the elite having this kind of knowledge and how that would work it would be something like let's say skull and bones has it you know and there's a kid who's a sophomore they give him the letter he gets to come to the ritual they say look man we got this thing where we have been communicating with these beings for generations and generations and we're going to bring you in because your family was so and so and we think you're a bright guy all it takes is for us to sacrifice a few of the lonely masses that nobody cares much about maybe we kidnap some people at a party we bring them here you know we sacrifice them and these entities come back and they keep us plugged into the akashic record the ultimate supreme knowledge that we've been trying to maintain and stay connected to for such a long time and then i think that could be the mechanism of preservation because as you say so many people experience this as a download of information well imagine a more sustained communal download of all cosmic information and what you could do with that and how each person could just say well my career i guess i'm going to pick something out of this cloud and maintain that post and that could be something but then what i was going to say is the timing aspect so if you start to study the occult it's all about timing it's nauseating how much of it is about timing about moon cycles and moon phases and astrological alignments and things that just my eyes glaze over i'm like well i guess i'm not doing the ritual at the crossroads because i don't even have the time in the day to sort out our modern timing with this cosmic timing so you would remove all that kind of knowledge all the mechanisms of knowledge from society the psychedelics the ritual timing put us on this linear gregorian calendar where we don't know what's up and down create religions or perpetuate them to be like oh it's god and the angels you know maybe you should pray more like totally create the vatican as a big power center and all the while it's really this connection and sure some of these beings probably reach out because you can't control all humans you probably can't control or influence all these beings so they reach out to random people and give them the downloads and stuff and that happens and that's where we see the cracks and the secrecy because regular people out in the woods are like hey this thing happened to me but our system the controllers of society they've kept us away from knowing about this kind of timing they've kept us away from these kind of places where these things happen more often and they also keep psychedelics and magic out of the culture and in previous ages would kill people who were going down those roads so there's the people place and time stripped out of our society for the masses but not necessarily for the chosen few well put yeah that is one scenario that could be happening certainly doesn't have to be happening to that extent everything you said could be happening on a much more subtle level and then it still influences us i think one of the things about peter lavenda's work that i find very interesting is that he talks about occult technology and he removes the supernatural sometimes you know he talks about the brainwashing and how those occult brainwashing techniques work and how the cia adapted them and how ron hubbard adapted them and that to me is very interesting because those are things we can see and prove very easily but as far as the time place and person and how that's been controlled so first of all person place and time it also impacts how people perceive the phenomenon because if you're not that person in the right place in the right time you don't believe it ever happened so that makes it easier for the phenomenon to hide certainly by having those restrictions and then it also as you point out becomes a means to contact it that is definitely what people try to do like with ce5 too they're going out in the desert and they're going into certain locations and they're engaging in exactly what we're talking about they're like binaural beats there's meditation they're trying to get their brain into that state so they're trying to create an antenna and then there's going to be a signal and i think we can find that signal i think we can enhance it and i think we can turn it off and i think we can do that in the public we can measure waves so we know what state your brain is and then we can measure what's coming in and we can also tell what state your brain is in and we could send out an emp or we could disrupt that signal in some other ways if people are having some of these torturous and victimized by some of these abduction experiences and i think if the vatican was serious they would look at that and go why not try it with someone who's possessed they have right they have a science wing and we're pointing to where on the brain these alien abduction experiences happen that become torturous they think it's demonic let's blast it out if all the prayers didn't work fast enough and someone's really suffering why not god created science too right let's give it a shot so this has been awesome i guess i gotta let you go eventually but it was great to just dive right into the deep waters because this isn't our first rodeo and in terms of what you got going on 40 and wins it's still archived the website is full of great articles if people want to go back after listening to this and be like well let's follow the guy's journey through all this and all of his ideas and conclusions about it is there anything upcoming worth promoting and while we're still in front of people who are interested in follow-up well being focused on my good intentions and all that i make everything public unless i think it's potentially dangerous so that's where you'll find it you'll find it on 14 wins at this time and i'm gonna publish some stuff that i've been sitting on like i mentioned how i did that regression analysis and found that latitude is the most determinant characteristic i think that that's a super important find because it also points heavily towards magnetism and you could take that one insight and take it much further and that's what i hope people do with my work is you know a lot of it on there is hypothesis formulation and finding resources to support those hypotheses but i don't have the money or the time to take the subjects to take this thing that much further but i hope people do so i'm going to publish more information on 14 wins i'll publish some stuff about that regression analysis and a bunch of other information that i was able to pull from ai like whether or not certain ethnicities see ufos more yeah i love it well i look forward to that this was a real pleasure thanks for taking the time take care out there may the 40 and wins always be at your back thank you greg awesome show i appreciate you doing it man and boom goes the dynamite people rom x breaking it down years of research some end of the line conclusions and an interview coming out of a very random string of events guided you could almost say because something compelled me to play 40 and wins that day happen upon their last episode and i thought it was good but i had follow-up questions and lucky me wouldn't you know it i am in a position to ask i'm glad he was willing to do it i think we're pretty well aligned on what's most interesting about this whole thing and the effects these beings have had on the human story and i thought we had a great rapport we did record this a couple weeks ago now just before lou elizondo's new book came out and of course he's doing the podcast circuit to promote it and i don't know if we would have had anything to add about that so far most of what i see in these interviews is him saying the same old well i have to be very careful with my words and this is all i can say about that etc etc the only really fascinating thing i've come across from that book is that apparently there was a plan or he might even be proposing a plan to capture these things by setting up a nuclear signature because it always seems to attract them and apparently they have done this before in russia they set this kind of nuclear trap and i'm not sure about the details or how successful they were or weren't in an actual capture but it's just something i came across recently and thought it was a fun creative concept that really after so many years i hadn't heard talked about but i did like hearing rom x talk about putting grimoires into ai you could make a more searchable archive than we've ever had before you could have it extract patterns you might even be able to have it design new rituals based on the most often mentioned criteria that whole thing to me is an interesting use of ai given where it is obviously going back to dr stephen skinner a lot of that stuff has yet to even be translated into english so i'd love to see that too it has been said here before for a long time that ufologists need to be talking to the occultists and the psychonauts need to be talking to the bigfoot researchers and all that because all of these people are studying or having experiences with things that break materialism it's possible we have several things that do that but it's also possible that we have several different pathways to get to a single thing at the heart of most of it you know different displays and all that so really fun interview for me i love that we could just jump right into it and skip a lot of the introductory stuff we've been swimming in these waters long enough and you guys don't need to go through the basics again and i came away thinking that if i was a listener i would be pretty engaged and happy with it he also sent me several links to both previous podcasts and articles that relate or fill in some details on several things we covered so check the show notes for those things as well of course the full two-hour show contains a lot more than just the free first hour with the extra time we talked about plasma wizards behind the enforcement and creation of religions rosicrucians in the ufo the connection to magic and the occult the rules of ritual interaction dissecting why and how it works who ram x doesn't trust in ufology who the shills deceivers grifters and intelligence piss boys are likely to be his own firsthand creepy experiences in field investigations some interesting international cases some really great inner earth cases and the inner earth parafictional literature and we talked about the sarah china hole crazy story from the 90s and i believe bulgaria so many good insights and offhanded comments as well you know the deal just become a plus member support the work get yourself twice as much show and you don't have to hear my new plus pitch song at the beginning of the episode anymore even though i listen to it when i don't even have to i'm having a lot of fun with this music stuff i'm sorry if some of you find it annoying but i really enjoy the variety and the closing songs being one-offs that i'll never use again is just fun too but let's take a look at the plus rating for the last episode yuga shift with bibu dev misra the people have spoken and they have said 4.7 no complaints here really enjoyed that one too well no complaints content wise but he was using a microphone on his earbud wire and it kept rubbing on his shirt and i addressed it like four times but if a person isn't going to help me out then i just have to kick it to our editor and hope he can make it sound less distracting some people noticed that rustling and were bothered by the sound quality on top of an accent i get it it all contributes to difficulty and understanding every word you know i care a lot about that and try to bring you the best but i can't do much to control the recording environment on the other side of the call and what a guest does and as always the meetup calendar anyone can go to higher side meetups.com and make an event and find a time and date to gather at a local restaurant park brewery or whatever and meet some other thc fans that live in your area it's nice to have a network of like-minded people and it doesn't cost anything to experiment with seeing what or who is out there and when it comes to the events on deck coming right up september 7th poor house barbecue in canaan new hampshire september 8th red root farm in milford connecticut september 11th san antonio texas at the halcyon south town september 18th at the corner bakery cafe in pasadena and then we got one in october on the 14th at galbrath's ale house in eden terence auckland new zealand international events it's a beautiful thing but if you heard a nearby city or town called out jump on the meetup calendar to rsvp and to get more details and that said it looks like i'm pulling this one into the station big thanks to all the listeners it's a very fun job you guys allow me to have and i think we've done some great episodes lately analog biboo and rom x all sort of relate to each other and hit on some of my favorite stuff i've been trying hard to avoid politics in an election year and just go against the grain and do my own thing and that seems to be the move it seems like i'm not alone and being pretty sick of all that other stuff but i am getting out of here enjoy the musical stylings of blues traveler making sweet sweet music out of today's episode themes i've done my part your move disclosure deceivers old money interests and ultra terrestrial plasma beans your fucking move in the sky and sun twist and spin maybe that we play with them from the beginning the church when they decide the church when they do the highest