S1 Ep25: Knockin' on Devil's Den Door

Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it, so your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you can save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition. If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of. Or artificial sweeteners are doing all the heavy lifting. It's basically dessert in disguise. You shouldn't have to choose between tasty and nutritious. And that's what makes Aloha stand out. Aloha protein bars nail the delicious and nutritious. They're USDA organic and made with ingredients that actually grow somewhere. It's their whole taste that grows philosophy. Plant-based ingredients grown in the ground, thoughtfully sourced, and built to keep you satisfied. Their peanut butter cup bar has 14 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber, and only 5 grams of sugar. Which is wild considering how delicious it is. Made with no artificial ingredients or fillers. Just something that tastes good and works the way it's supposed to. So, if you're in the mood for something truly craveable and nutritious, try any of Aloha's protein bars. Grab one at your local grocery store or head to aloha.com. Astonishing Legends Network. The views and opinions expressed by hosts and listeners on the Astonishing Dead Letter office are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Astonishing Legends Productions, the Astonishing Legends Network, or any affiliated entities or guests. Tonight's episode, knocking on Devil's Den door. This week's creepy tale comes from Allie, a PhD candidate at the University of Arkansas, at least back when she sent us this dead letter, in May of 2023. And like so many dead letter submissions, it's rooted in the Devil's Den area of the Ozark National Forest, a location that's become something of a hotspot for unexplained events, as you might recall if you're a listener to our main show from our past episodes with Terry Lovelace. Oh, yes, indeed. And something I didn't realize as a kid growing up, you know, there's camping spots and locations and natural features that have the word devil in the name. Yeah. And you don't realize, I thought that was just kind of a fun, you know, old-timey prospector, old west cowboy kind of thing. Like, you know, that's the devil's elbow and you don't want me going up there. And it was just more of a, I don't know, folksy kind of thing. And then the concept brought forth by researchers after a while, it's like, well, pay attention because if it has devil in the name, that there may be something more to it than some old-timey westerner cowboy's bad luck at this one location. You know, we have here in North Carolina, the Devil's Tramping Ground, which was like this circular area where nothing would grow. Oh. In this little stand of, I think in the woods and off a rural road or something. And the rumor was, when I was a kid, was that if you went and tried to camp in it and you put your tent up in the Devil's Tramping Ground area, which is, the circle's not huge, you know, 50, 100 feet, I'm not sure. But when you woke up in the morning, the tent will have been moved. All of your stuff will have been moved outside of it with you still inside and you won't have known how that happened. Really? You know people that this has happened to? No, it was a ghost story. Oh, I see. Yeah, I can't say, but it was a famous North Carolina ghost story. And I'm pretty sure that now it's lost its mojo or something. I feel like John Killian, who is a North Carolina resident as well and a paranormal investigator, told me that it was no longer. But for a long time, it was a big story in North Carolina. But again, the Devil's Tramping Ground. And it's circular, too. It's a circular thing. Well, there's a lot of tie-in to folklore as well, which doesn't necessarily mean that there was a real-life, real-world happening there or a string of bad luck or something supernatural. But the Devil, especially in centuries past, was always put to the label of something not good and something possibly supernatural. The Devil's Mowers for crop circles and the Devil's this and that. There is something to a name. And in this case, I think Devil's Den has probably the most amount of emails we've gotten, I think, over any other single location. Would you agree with that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, with the dead letters at this point, you know, it's not clear when we record these what order we're going to release them in. But at this point, we're closing in on at least 30 of them produced. And I would say that we've had at least three prior to this one that seem to be connected to that series. Which is, by the way, folks, if you can look for it on our main show feed or in our archives at astonishinglegends.com or whatever podcast app you use, Spotify, etc. If you look up Terry Lovelace and Astonishing Legends or Devil's Den and Astonishing Legends, Terry was on the show a few times. He came back later and we did one called The Reckoning about a book he released where he was getting a ton of letters from people who are like, wait a minute. These strange things happen to me, too. So he's getting flooded with stuff. And then we had him on our show. And now we're getting flooded with stuff. It's unreal. Yeah. Well, this one's particularly creepy and unsettling. Well, it's got that old hallmark of the unnerving feeling of being watched while you're hiking. Yes. Which then devolves into something far worse. So I'll read tonight. I have heard your past episodes with Terry Lovelace on the incident at Devil's Den. And I wanted to write in because I have had strange experiences there as well. I am currently a Ph.D. candidate, graduating in June 2023 at the University of Arkansas. And Devil's Den and the surrounding Ozark National Forest encompasses a few of my field sites. I have a few strange stories of things that have happened in those locations. I would like to note that part of the reason I am in biology is that I love being in nature. One of my favorite ways to enjoy nature is by hiking alone. This brings me peace and calmness, and I never feel scared to be alone in the woods. In fact, I have anxiety and panic attacks. And when I feel particularly anxious or even amidst a panic attack, I will go for a hike alone to calm myself. So here is what I have experienced. In my first attempt to locate a field site, I entered a trail directly in front of the Devil's Den State Park sign. The trail led into the National Forest, and I was told there was an old logging road that would provide a shortcut to an open rock quarry. It appeared as though I was the only one on the trail, as there were no cars and just a small pull-off for parking. After about 10 minutes of hiking, I felt uneasy. I got this strange feeling as though someone was watching me. I hiked for about 30 minutes, stopping every few minutes to scan the woods around me for other hikers or people in the woods watching me. I never saw anyone, and I sped up a little each time. I eventually realized this old logging road was not taking me in the right direction, and I turned around. And then I hiked down the actual hiking trail. I felt even more like I was being watched. I was hiking as quickly as I could, and eventually felt so scared that I started to flag my own trail to make a direct route to the quarry, all the while scanning the woods expecting to find someone following me. Once I reached the quarry, after at least an hour or more of hiking, I scanned the field site for about 10 minutes and left. Typically, I would spend at least five hours, sometimes up to nine hours at a field site. From there, I ran the entire trail back to my car, which was at least two miles. When exiting the forest, I saw no one and never saw a single person on the trail. I have not returned to that trail or in search of that field site to this day because I was so shaken and scared. My next set of experiences happened at the ATV parking lot trail. I would visit this location and typically walk the perimeter of the parking lot to find animals perched on the rocks, occasionally venturing out onto trails. I typically felt uneasy in this location and would always try to be quick, usually only stopping here after a day at another site. I was conducting the surveys during the height of COVID in the summer of 2020, meaning the pit toilets situated in the ATV parking lot were locked and unavailable to the public. I was usually the only person there. One day, I was there alone and had been surveying the lot for a while when I started looking for animals around the bathroom house. Suddenly, I heard loud banging from inside the bathroom as though someone was inside banging on the door to be let out. It was unmistakable and it did not let up. However, there was no yell for help. I can assure you this did not happen until the moment I got close to the building. Being alone, I was terrified and decided to leave immediately. The next time at the site, again alone, with no other people around, I ventured under a small bridge just off the parking lot. The bridge just connected the road over a small stream, about 20 meters wide. As soon as I stepped under the bridge, I heard loud banging again as though someone was hitting the metal on the side of the bridge. I looked around and saw no one, and there were no cars crossing the bridge. I stepped away from the bridge to get a better view and still could not find any reason for the sound. I had been under the bridge before and had never heard any banging. After this, I left and only returned to the site one or two more times and stopped going back. I can say that these experiences thoroughly shook me. I have no intention of going back to either of these locations, although I still hiked trails within the park which were heavily trafficked. I told my lab mate about these experiences, and he told me that there was an old cemetery nearby, although I have never looked into that. So, several things going on here worthy of discussion, no doubt. One of them, I think it reminds us a little of our guest from the Hitchhiker of Mangyan Rim episode of Astaution Legends for our Halloween series. Was it two years ago now? Yeah, yeah. Also a scientist out in the woods, I think leaving jelly donuts for bears, or at least the jelly part of it, which you could get. Yes, yeah, exactly. Which they love. Well, who wouldn't love that? But they would leave them out and track the animals, especially looking for black bears, I believe. And then actually comes across a strange person or being that seemed to have strange powers. This, however, the banging reminded me also of Bigfoot stories. People out in the woods will hear knocking. That's one of the most common things. But far off, usually not coming from inside the port-a-john. So, that's scary. And the fact that if it was somebody inside, like, hey, help me. Anybody out there? This thing's locked on me. Right, right. Didn't hear that. But that was enough for Allie to not even question that. Just take off. Like, what kind of problems you're having inside there anyway, but I'm not opening that door for you. Probably wise in any situation where you hear banging coming from the inside. Also scary would be if you were inside and someone was banging on the door and wouldn't answer you. And then you open the door and there's no one there. Also terrifying because now you're trapped and probably in the middle of your business. But not to make light of this, it's terrifying because you're all alone, for one. I don't know if they knew of the story or the history, the lore of the strange things that happen in that area. But also, I like it coming from the perspective also of a scientist that you're balancing your scientific mind and rationale with unmistakable experience. And that this should not be happening, but it is. And the feelings you get are quantifiable and valid and that you're being watched. And so the aspect I don't like is that Allie usually had feelings of peace and quiet, and now that's been ruined by some jerk entity or phenomenon. But we've also had a lot of letters as well with people describing this, that going out in the woods alone and you have that, one, the feeling that you're being watched and there doesn't seem to be anyone around. That's also like a Bigfoot thing. And so there's a lot going on here. And I don't know quite what it is. If it is a trickster spirit like Mangyan Rim and I think it was Jay, who is our biologist, who was out talking about that experience of theirs. There could be a lot going on here. But one of the things, and I think it's ironic, makes me believe the story is that it's not overblown with a bunch of other details. Not that it couldn't be possible. It's just that it's just a few things. And the way it's described sounds like a lot of other stories we've come across, where there's just a few experiences that could seemingly be mundane, just knocking, oh, well, there's some hiker out there trying to freak her out, or there was some guy traipsing around in the woods. But having experience in this location and also being out in the woods a lot, hiking a lot, being a biologist, that's their laboratory as well, knowing the area. I give that more weight as to somebody who knows the surroundings. And when they say that they know that there's no one around, that they have more situational awareness is what I'm saying, I guess. The other thing this reminds me of is a story that we did. It was actually our 16th episode back in May of 2015 called Are We Ever Alone? Oh, yeah. Where we had ER doctor Richard Goldstein came on about a camping trip that he took. He was also an experienced outdoorsman. Right, right. You know, I'm not going to retell that whole story, but the long and short of it was that, you know, he had some weirdness at the campsite with something weird in the fireplace that didn't look right. But also there was just this overwhelming feeling that he needed to go, that he needed to get out of there and that something wanted him gone or was following him or looking at him or whatever. And it's interesting how many people have stories like that. And it's another one of those stories where when we share it, more and more people start sharing stories. And the other thing about Allie's experience too is, you know, we talk about screen memories and abduction and all that because Terry Lovelace's story is an abduction story and a very complex one. It has some undertones and common ground with like Close Encounters, the movie, which of course is fictional. But it has other things going on with military intelligence and all of that kind of stuff. Whereas Allie here is, again, like Jay that we mentioned at the Mogollon Rim, is out on her own doing research, trying to further her education, and actually finds peace in these areas. But something is saying, you should not be here. And you go away from the biological concern because the one story is like, okay, there's an idea that maybe when she had that feeling and she's running back and everything that there was some predator that was following her and that was her sixth sense, which is a very real thing. And it's not necessarily, I mean, in terms of the paranormal, it's like you're sensing that you're being watched even though you don't hear anything, you don't see anything. Is that paranormal or is that just instinct, you know, survival instinct? But whatever is going on there, it looks like in the Devil's Den area, there's not a lot of predators to be worried about. There's a lot of bats, but bats don't track you like that. And the other things that I'm seeing online are feral hogs, which can be pretty scary and dangerous. But they're not exactly stealthy, I don't think. I don't think feral hogs are super good at sneaking around like a bobcat or a bear. Right. As they say, in the city, there's always a reflection. In the woods, there's always a sound. So some large thing like that is going to be rustling around in the brush. Yeah. And if you can't see what it is, yeah, that's unnerving. And the bigger it is, even if it's a deer, that kind of puts your, raises your hackles. Like you're on guard a little bit. But here where you don't hear anything else, like that's kind of what I was getting at, is that when you have no presence of anything else out there, you feel totally alone, except you feel like someone's watching you. And that feeling grows and grows. That just adds to the amount of terror. And when you look at all that too, and then you come back to the banging, the banging around the pit toilets, and the banging when she went under the bridge, that's not the behavior of a wild animal. That's something else. You know, I mean, yes, of course, sure. A bear might bang on a car or a cabin to try to get inside to a refrigerator, but this is different. This is something trapped inside the pit toilet or up on top of the bridge that she's under. And imagine how scary that would be, because you don't even have cover in that scenario. You're underneath an open-air structure, and you're hearing this banging, which means something is directly above you that if it came down to where you were, you wouldn't, I mean, unless you have a firearm, you have no defense of any kind. And that had to be terrifying. And she didn't mention having a firearm and maybe didn't carry one. So feeling particularly defenseless with whatever is happening here. But whatever's going on, there's just one more thing that should not go into the brochure for devil's day. Well, I don't think, it's one of those things where I think most people who go there, nothing happens to. You know, it's like everywhere else. And not that anybody was more connected, but maybe people who are more tied or receptive to the land and study it more. Yeah. You also have to be kind of perceptive, I think, and receptive of the natural vibe, as our friend Allie here is. Not only does she study it, she enjoys it. It gives her peace and calm. And kind of like myself, I feel the same way. And I would hate to have that ruined, but I've never had any experience like that. Except, you know, when you start talking about something wanting you out of there, that's when I did remember. And it's funny, it's like, I wouldn't say it's paranormal apathy, but that is my one story. Again, nothing major has ever happened to me or that interesting. But it was a year or two or a couple of years after we did the Sheriff Henry Plummer series, a three-part series. And I didn't put it together then, but having visited the site years prior to that on vacation with my family, that is the one time where, again, because it wasn't like this. I didn't hear any banging. It wasn't a feeling of being watched. But in the years after, when we started talking more about people being ushered out of areas that are kind of natural or wild, I started thinking about that and revisiting in my mind what had happened to me and the purpose of that. And quickly, the story that I was hiking up in the hills above Bannock, Mr. Plummer's stomping grounds there, his devil's tramping grounds. And in the hills there, you know, there's a couple of abandoned cabins I was checking out. It's all open. You can see right down to the little town there and the main street where there's more buildings, of course. And there's a few tourists running around. And I think there was even some Civil War reenactors setting up camp down the road. So it was all kind of peaceful, middle of the day. And they do have some locations that are marked with state park markers with a little plaque there. And they had the gallows there where some of the folks in the gang there were supposedly hung, except for Henry, I believe, with the deals that was – it's either one of two things. And I can't remember. It was either the location where people were hung, but it wasn't the original gallows, or it was the original gallows beam, but not in that location, original location. Yeah, yeah. So, but the gallows are there. And I'm maybe 200 yards from the main street down there. And I think I can see my parents even. But I'm, you know, walking around in the hills. Like I said, it's kind of peaceful. It's nice. I love history. And then I got this overwhelming sense of thirst. Like, it just hit me suddenly, like, wow, I'm really thirsty. And I had hiked up there with a sport bottle full of water, and I drank that, no effect. I was still just as parched. And then I got the feeling of, like, and I'm sorry to folks who I've told this story to on the show and in person over and over again. But just the feeling that if I don't get down out of these hills, I could die. And it just hit me, like, I got to get down there, like, now. Like, I have to get out of here. Especially after I drank that bottle, and, like, there was no effect. It didn't quench my thirst one bit. Yeah. Like, if I don't get down here and I pass out, it could be hours. I could be dead. My folks are down there. We're on vacation. That would ruin it. But I need to get down to the town. It would really ruin the vacation. How did I ruin the vacation by dying? Just something that was, it was not good. I needed to get down there. It's like, you know, and I got down there, and I was still thirsty, and I saw my folks at their, they're at the visitor center. They had a nice refrigerated drinking fountain inside with all their fun books and literature. And, you know, I just drank a lot, filled up my bottle, drank that again, and it was fine. And then it was much later, I thought, like, was something trying to get me out of there? And using thirst as a mode, like I said, it wasn't a voice, it wasn't banging. I didn't have rocks thrown at me, but in that bright daylight, out in the open, no animals or predators around, except for maybe a few birds, that was the mode of, like, you need to get out of here. Yeah. And we're going to make you really, really thirsty. So you go down to Main Street and get a drink of something, but get out. So I do wonder about that, because it just didn't make any sense. And even at the time, when I was standing there, like, it didn't make any sense. I mean, you know, that morning, we had breakfast. I had plenty to drink of various beverages. And it was also baffling to me in that moment why I was so thirsty. So, like I said, I wasn't terrified, but I was afraid of the idea, like I said, of passing out, tripping, hitting my head. And for some reason, I had to get out of there, and it was life or death. Right. So looking back on it, it's like, well, that didn't make any sense. Was that something, saying, you know, many ghosts and spirits? And so that also kind of reminded me when her lab mate said, you know, there's an old cemetery nearby. Maybe there's something to that. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder where that was. You know, I didn't do my Google Map exploration on this to try to figure out where this was. Because, you know, we're the ones that helped Terry figure out where the plateau was, where he had his experience, which he gave us a nod in his new book, I think. But it's a freaky thing, you know. And camping can be scary. I've done a lot of it over the years. And, of course, you can psych yourself out pretty bad, too, at night. But this is daytime stuff. She's just out doing hiking in the daytime and working and whatever. So it's like, it is strange. And the thing about the banging, that's the thing I keep coming back to. It just doesn't seem like a natural thing. Unless you're Bigfoot or a ghost. Yeah, but the Bigfoot is tree knocking. That's like, it's not like banging from inside a locked pit toilet. And it's not banging on a bridge while someone's underneath it. But it's usually a tree knock from, like, so far away, you can't tell where it's coming from or something like that. Or throwing a rock at you from a distance. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So, Annette, if we're going to score this in some show way, that is more ghost-like. Oh, maybe we should come up with a score. Yeah. Well, that's like our good friends at the Lore Met. Yeah. They would rate a story on different things like originality, headlessness, various criteria. Lots of fun folks check out that show. But the idea, though, here where you're getting knocking, yeah, that's ghost territory. Right. Because you're right. I think, you know, if it was Bigfoot, rocks are thrown at you. But on the other hand, I've heard a lot of more so ghost stories where there's pebbles being thrown from the woods. Yeah. Yeah. Not very Bigfoot-y because they prefer, like, baseball size and above. You're making an impression. But certainly I've heard of people having, yeah, small pebbles thrown at them. And then you wonder, it's like, well, that park is known for being haunted. Yeah. Or like that story from, I think, Bucks County, your former Stomping, your former Devil's Tramping Ground. That was a couple of great stories that I think appeared on Jim Harreld's campfire where people were in the woods, got a bad feeling, started to feel pebbles thrown at them. They ran back to the car, felt like something was chasing them. And it was a very dewy evening, night there. And they got in the car, slammed the doors just in time. And they felt the car being hit by some unseen force. And there was a handprint in the dew on the window glass of the car. Yeah. And then I don't know if this is another story, but people looked back and they saw, like, glowing little red eyes in the tree line. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that's a Jim Harreld thing. I remember that. That is a Jim Harreld jam, joint. So, with the last line there, that there's a cemetery nearby, I'm starting to think it's more of a haunting thing. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, too. I guess that's what I'm doing is I'm sort of processing this story. On a third hand, with the Terry Lovelace Devil's Den connection, these stories overlap. But this is something that I love learning over time, more info arrows for your quiver. And that when we're starting out, we didn't really realize, I think, until we started talking to people like Linda Godfrey. And that there's an overlap of these types of phenomenon where people see Bigfoot, they sometimes see UFOs. Right. The same thing Stan Gordon was reporting in his territory up there in Pennsylvania, that there's a lot of overlap. There's ghost stories and cemeteries and orbs and Bigfoot and dogmen and UFO sightings. And so, it's just one of those areas that's a hotspot, a thin place. That's true. That's true. Well, Allie, thank you so much for writing in to us. You've done a bang-up job, pun intended, by not returning to the Devil's Den and neighboring areas. We're going to forward your dead letter to Terry Lovelace and get you guys connected. We really appreciate you writing in to The Astonishing Dead Letter Office. The Astonishing Dead Letter Office is hosted by Scott Philbrick and Forrest Burgess and is executive produced by Tess Feifel. The show is edited and mixed by Sarah Voorhees-Wendell at VW Sound. The theme is based on the Astonishing Legends theme by Judson Crane at Founder Music, arranged by Alan Carissia, who composes all the other music in the show. Tommy Beaver Design created the logo. The announcer is John Bolton. That's me. Stories are lightly edited for length, content, and readability, but otherwise presented as they're sent to us. We're always looking for more Dead Letters, so if you have a story of your own you'd like to share, email it to deadletteroffice at astonishinglegends.com. Please include how you would like to be credited. First name only? First name last initial? Anonymous? A pseudonym? Let us know. Due to the number of emails coming in, we often cannot respond, but we do read them all. No part of this show may be reproduced anywhere without permission. Copyright, Astonishing Legends Productions. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it, so your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you can save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition. If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of. Or artificial sweeteners are doing all the heavy lifting. It's basically dessert in disguise. You shouldn't have to choose between tasty and nutritious. And that's what makes Aloha stand out. Aloha protein bars nail the delicious and nutritious. They're USDA organic and made with ingredients that actually grow somewhere. It's their whole taste that grows philosophy. Plant-based ingredients grown in the ground, thoughtfully sourced, and built to keep you satisfied. Their peanut butter cup bar has 14 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber, and only 5 grams of sugar. Which is wild considering how delicious it is. Made with no artificial ingredients or fillers, just something that tastes good and works the way it's supposed to. So, if you're in the mood for something truly craveable and nutritious, try any of Aloha's protein bars. Grab one at your local grocery store or head to aloha.com. This is Sophia Bush from Work in Progress with Sophia Bush. Check out this special moment we did on our show, presented by eBay. When I was living in Chicago, I took part in my first ever giant charity sale. And I was able to auction several items from my personal closet on eBay. They were items that marked huge moments in my life and in my career. And though I was ready to pass them along, I also wanted to make sure they were going to someone who would love them. One of the things I loved the most about doing this with eBay is there was a way for everyone to shop. It wound up being so much fun to see where each and every item was going, where it was going to be loved. And in passing items along like that, authenticity really matters to the person who's getting them. That's why I love eBay's authenticity guarantee. They weren't just listing my items. They were verifying them, making sure something was genuinely from where it claimed to be. In this case, my closet. To listen to more, check out the full episode wherever you get your podcasts. Find what you love, sell what you don't. eBay. Things people love. All right, quick quiz for the hiring managers out there. What's worse, being understaffed or being poorly staffed? Well, that's a trick question because both are recipes for chaos. Either way, just say to yourself, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. You'll get matched with candidates that meet the skills, certifications, and everything else you're looking for. Or go a different way and get no traction. Seriously, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. It really is a no-brainer. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash podcast. Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. For delicious meals, you could go out to eat or spend hours in the kitchen. Or you could just make a Marie Callender's meal. Yeah, you heard me. Marie Callender's classic chicken parmigiana bowl is delicious with scratch-made marinara sauce, creamy mozzarella cheese, and no preservatives. It's high in protein with 30 grams per serving. Marie Callender's. What having it all tastes like. Ever notice that feeling your worst also seems to happen at the worst time in the worst places? Like sudden nausea at 9 p.m. when you're out of town. Really? Now? Fortunately, with Hartford HealthCare's HHC 24-7 app, you can get answers, diagnosis, prescriptions, even speak live with clinicians anytime, anywhere. So maybe there's never a good time to be sick, but at least the best care is always there. Download the app at your app store or hhc247.org. Success starts with your drive, and American Public University is here to fuel it. With affordable tuition and over 200 flexible online programs, APU helps you gain the skills and confidence to move forward. Whether you're changing careers, starting fresh, or pursuing a lifelong passion, our programs are designed for people who never stop. You bring the fire, APU will fuel the journey. Learn more at apu.apus.edu. With the Venmo debit card, a taco in one hand, and ordering a ride in the other, means you're stacking your rewards. Nice! Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash on your favorite brands when you pay with your Venmo debit card. From takeout to ride shares, entertainment, and more. Pick a bundle with your go-tos and start earning cash back at those brands. Do more stash, get more cash. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. See terms at venmo.me slash stash terms. Max $100 cash back per month.