S1 Ep36: Chips, Salsa and UFOs

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Yes, the artists formerly known as UFOs or prints, I guess. So do we have a universe now like MCU? Yeah, I mean, we have to at this point. I feel like you are in a universe after 10 years. Well, we're commenting on one universe that we happen to be perhaps in, if it's not all a some kind of mirage. And there may be infinite amounts of universes. But yes, UFO, I like to use both terms nowadays. UFO, of course, it's classic. It makes me feel good. It's vintage. And it's accurate, I think. They're flying objects. And they're unknown. But I also am down with UAP because I have come to believe, since I was younger and just used UFOs, there's also phenomena tied to this. Yes, that's right. Inextricably. Yes, and then there's my favorite, which I've said pretty much from the jump on our show, USOs, unidentified submerged objects. I find those pretty fascinating. Well, yeah, and then the other thing that's perhaps evolved from my thinking is, I wonder about their craft, their technology, and their mechanics. Like, are most UFOs also USOs? Can they go, you know, trans-medium here? Are they also just able to go from one to the other? Or are there certain alien craft that are just, like, the skies only? And this one's, you know, obviously, I think they have to be space and sky, as we, with lesser technology, much lesser, you know, have to divide up our medium, our elements to the specific craft. Except for that, the craft that was in Steven Spielberg's movie AI. Remember, it was kind of a helicopter, a bladeless helicopter, but which could also be a USO. No, here, I just wonder, like, are they all capable of that? Are there specific ones? But I've come to believe that many of them are both. Because why not? You've got the technology. So, yeah, you have trans-medium craft flying through the air, water. If you believe the Skinwalker Ranch series, maybe even rocks without any issues. And I do believe also that in some cases, not all, that there is a way to harmonically vibrate atoms and molecules and subatomic particles to align them to be able to pass through them. And so maybe you can go through a rock. Maybe so. There's a lot going on on that front these days. But it's worth noting, these stories have been around for 75-plus years in the United States alone. There is one from the time of the Founding Fathers. I think the three guys in the canoe, now if you read it, you know, lights over the water. They wake up with missing time and much further down the river or even out of the canoe than they thought or planned. So there's no timestamp on this. A lot of people say like, oh, this only started in 1947. So it's obviously made up. Yeah. Not the case, I don't believe. Well, you know, and again, you could go back over a thousand years to the 11th century China and earlier around the world. And, you know, there's always been reports of things that people could not explain. And it's not necessarily that more is happening now. It's just that I believe a human language is evolving in new ways to describe this phenomenon. And we all personally now have much better ways to record it. Indeed. Well, that brings us to tonight's dead letter. It comes to us from Jordan, who at the time was working in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where one day she saw something in broad daylight that she couldn't explain. A few years back, I was working as a high school yoga teacher in Albuquerque, New Mexico. One of the high schools I taught at was on the side of town that is more like the old Mexico than the new Mexico. So I often swung by the big old Mexican grocery store to pick up some homemade chips and salsa. One day, as I was doing just that, walking back to my car in the parking lot, I saw something that I will take to the grave. I looked over to the Sandia Mountains in the distance and hovering above them were nearly a dozen round silver craft. The mountains were about a five-mile stretch from where I was, but the area is so flat that it appears much closer. All of the objects were floating slowly together over the mountains, as if linked by some sort of force or invisible net or strings. And all but one of them were oscillating, much like the traditional UFOs of yore depicted, as if tilting and spinning back and forth on some sort of axis. In addition, the larger craft was diving in and out of the others as they flowed together. I had the sense that it was in charge. I was wearing blue blocker sunglasses and took them off to see if I could get a better look. I could still see them, but in fact, I could see them more sharply with the glasses on. I looked around the parking lot to grab someone else to share in the spectacle, but there was only one guy collecting carts on the far side of the lot. I stood there watching the craft float in unison for about five minutes until they disappeared out of view. Once they were gone, a large black helicopter sped off in the direction they went. The entire time I watched the craft, I didn't sense any fear, but it was certainly spellbound. I had a knowing that they were not of this world, but also meant to do us no harm. I had a super goofy sense that they were much like a bus tour would be for humans, but for beings of another time and space. You know, and on your left, you can see the Sandia Mountains. Sandia means watermelon in Spanish, just one of the many earthling languages. There is an Air Force base in Albuquerque that has been known to experiment with aircraft, but there was no way these things were drones. They were way too large, or on this planet, way too round and completely wingless slash propellerless. I proceeded to go home and call my boyfriend and closest friends and asked if they'd seen what I'd seen. Of course, they didn't. The truth is, people don't look up much, especially during the day. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Exploring the unknown is what makes Astonishing Legends so much fun. But when it comes to dinner, nobody wants surprises. Marley's Spoon helps you eat well without overthinking it. Each meal is chef-designed, made with quality ingredients, and balanced so you feel good about what you're eating. With over 100 recipes to pick from every week, there's always something new to try, whether you're in the mood for a comforting classic or something a little more adventurous. Marley's Spoon adapts to your life, from breakfast to dinner, and even those in-between snack moments. The subscription is simple and flexible, so it fits your schedule, no matter how busy things get. Go to marleyspoon.com slash offer slash pod 45 for 45% off your first order and free delivery. That's right. 45% off your first order and free delivery. That's marleyspoon.com slash offer slash P-O-D-4-5. All right, so in the story, this is what was interesting to me. Jordan mentions the Air Force Base close by where there was experimental aircraft, and that was the Kirtland Air Force Base. And at first I was like, oh, wait, Kirtland? No, it's not K-I-R-K. It's K-I-R-T. Right. Of course, named after a former Army commander. Yeah. But that is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. This is not just any air base. This is a massive, highly strategic facility that I think flies under the radar for a lot of people. Its main focus is national security with really deep ties to nuclear weapons development and testing. It's the sixth largest U.S. Air Force installation with over 51,558 acres and 23,000 employees, making it a very significant economic force in the area. There's one record that says in 2000, it generated over $2.7 billion in economic flow, I guess. I doubt that went into Albuquerque because I've been there. And I love Albuquerque, by the way. That wasn't a slam. I'm just saying, it's not like Dubai or anything. It's just that money's going underground. Yeah. Nothing to sneeze at, though. And I believe that figure. And I wonder, perhaps, if that revenue is due to their line of Kirtland signature products. Is that what I'm making a joke? No, that's Kirtland. Oh, you're not a Costco member, are you? No, that's, yeah, yeah, exactly. But you got it. Well, there you go. That's a mission accomplished. No, I believe that any of these military bases with all the people staying there, all the revenue it generates, all the services and goods that are consumed and generated contribute a lot. And the other thing that we obviously know by now is that whether it's secret craft being tested, whenever there is some kind of nuclear or high tech or energy or missiles, whatever it is that the military is working on, there is a lot of UFO activity that is not always generated by the base itself, I believe. I mean, look at Terry Lovelace's story. They all witnessed a giant diamond-shaped kind of thing hovering over the installation where he was stationed at the time as a Air Force EMT, he and his partner there. And that's where they saw that. And the whole base scrambled. And they looked at it for like, I don't know, half an hour before it moved off. And, you know, that was not planned by the base. And this happens a lot. Same thing with Roswell. It was at the 503rd Bomber Wing, I believe the first Strategic Air Command base that had nuclear bombers that could drop atomic bombs. So that generated interest as well because if you believe the lore here is that they're very curious and cautious and wary about our development of nuclear weapons because that could mess up a whole lot of things. Right. And this base was actually central to all of that. In fact, during the early days in World War II, it started out as a U.S. Army airfield built on land leased near a place called Oxnard Field there. And it was a training and testing facility in World War II for flight training and bombardier training. And in addition to that, it had a connection to the Manhattan Project. It was a transportation center for that and also for personnel and materials that were going to Los Alamos. Its runways and a bomb loading pit supported the atomic bomb program from 1944 to 1945. And components of both Little Boy and Fat Man, the plutonium core, were transported via that field to Tinian before the bombings of Japan. Right, right. And I just want to make a correction, of course. This should teach me from just giving ROMA data. And those in the military might know what that acronym stands for. I'm not going to repeat it here. But I think it was the 509th wing, which conducted training on the B-29 aircraft and dropped this first special weapon on Japan. So, yeah, it's all very top secret areas here. Something I think you don't want to, people are saying like, well, they're just going to see how they react. It's like, maybe you don't want to try that there, where the response could be deadly for tens of thousands. So, like you said, a very important training and testing facility. This is also, yeah, during the wartime here, where things were very top secret in the whole region. And so, after World War II, it continued to function as a high-level storage facility and also development area for new weapons from the Sandia Laboratory, which is also right there. So, it was a flight test center, flight testing headquarters for the 58th Bombardment Wing, assisting Sandia Base's Z Division with atomic weapons design. There's a lot going on there. But in addition to that, there was a storage facility developed there that stored a nuclear arsenal in the mountains, which has been decommissioned in 1992. And there's still an on-site area, which I think is top secret or classified. There's not a lot about it. But it has moved over to the proper area of the base and is now very far underground. But the reason we're pointing all this out is that it's interesting to me that this is where this was happening. Now, there's a lot of reasons to believe that it's possible that there were experimental aircraft being flown in the area. They may have been testing their ability to detect experimental aircraft because, obviously, it's a very high level of security, especially for nuclear weapons storage. So, they have to make sure that they can catch all kinds of things coming in. And there may have been operations where different divisions were tasked with using asymmetrical things or new technology that they didn't know about just to see if it would be detected. So, it's plausible that something like that could have been going on there. Although, the question is, would it have been done in broad daylight and in civilian view? I'm not sure. There's some idea for that. But then, by the same token, we don't know what year it was when Jordan saw this stuff. But, again, I mean, she's clearly familiar with the idea of drones, but she described these as much too large. And then they had no control surfaces, which, as of right now, as we're recording this, there's this stuff going on in Booga, right? With all the drones that are being captured. I do wonder, because, again, we're getting filtered information from the mainstream media about what's still going on, perhaps, in New Jersey, all over the eastern seaboard, and other places about drones being the size of school buses. Yeah. Even the shorter buses there. Van size. Minivan size. No control surfaces. We still don't know what that hexagonal object was that got shot down over North America here. Yeah. Yeah, we're not getting all the information, and maybe that's it. They're not reporting it, of course, because they're not getting the information. So there's a lot of other crazy stuff going on in the news, as we all know. And so when there's nothing to report, it just kind of went by the wayside. But it's not gone. Right. It's not like it stopped, I don't believe. So it's still happening. You do wonder, what was she seeing? And so what I can glean from her description, curious, probably one of the more curious things about it was how she described they're flying in kind of a formation. Like they're connected somehow. Right. But basically flying in a organized, intelligent coordination, some kind of formation, and all have that kind of blowing leaf motion. Right. Wobbling, except for one. And I agree with her gut instinct in that it may have been the one in control. And so it also reminds me of two other cases just off the top of my head, the Maori Island incident, where the family and others that were on that boat near the island saw the craft fly over. And I think it was nine, perhaps, donut-shaped kind of flattish disk kind of things with the hollow centers, I guess. Right. And one was kind of wobbling. But it seemed like it was not functioning properly. And it discharged a lot of hot metal, which rained down onto the beach, into the water, and on the boat, breaking the arm of the captain's son. Because I think some family members were on board, at least the captain of the boat or the owner. And his son was on board. And one hit him in the arm, broke his arm, killed the dog, I believe. And so on UFO hunters, they go looking for that type of metal. That's a fascinating case. I'm not going to outline all here, but it was scooped up by the military, I think the Air Force, and it was flown back. Oh, I do have a connection. Hold on. You're going to be surprised. They scooped it all up, most of it. And UFO hunters, Bill Burns and his team, they went looking for it. I don't believe they found anything. They found pieces that were odd, that had the metallic qualities to it. And at the incident at the time, I believe the military collected whatever hit the boat because it was hot. And then what they described was that after it ejected this material, it righted itself and then took off with the others. Like it had to drop a load and then continue on or continue functioning. But it was in some kind of formation. That material that was collected, the Mary Island incident, I believe, just they collected it. It was put aboard a B-25 Mitchell military Air Force aircraft and was being flown back. But that plane crashed mysteriously. So there's two mysteries connected with that. That's somewhere over, I think, Northern California or on its way down, crashed soon after takeoff. They thought, well, it was bad wiring. Could it have been the material itself causing some kind of incendiary reaction? They don't know. But that was all cordoned off and everything was scooped up from that crash site. But I believe the pilot of that aircraft, the B-25, was a good friend of Kenneth Arnold, who then saw famously the nine flying crescents. He described them as crescent-shaped, shiny, silvery, flying in some kind of formation near Mount Rainier. And that's where the press picked it up. And they coined the term saucers. And that's largely attributed to where we get the term flying saucers, except they were actually crescent. And he described them as flying very fast and in some kind of formation. So anyway, it all reminded me that when she described that kind of multiple craft, all very similar, flying in formation, except for this one, there seems to be control craft or a mothership, perhaps, of some kind. Well, that comes back to this whole idea of this nuclear storage facility, which was in the Manzano Mountains, which are south of the Sandia Mountains. It's all part of one range there. And that was where they had built – the Army Corps of Engineers just built all of these bunkers. And it's all public information now because it's been retired. But just, you know, 60, 70 bunkers. I even found a link where you could look and somebody put on Google Maps where the entrances to all the bunkers are. And you can see where they were storing things deep underground in these caves, essentially. And what's interesting is that – and when I say caves, I mean man-made, not like natural formations. But I found this fascinating book called Inside Manzano, The Life of a Nuclear Special Weapons Storage Site. And this was written by Charles Kabler, who worked there. And in the book, he talks a lot about how he couldn't include a whole lot of classified information, everything he's got in the book. He had to go through it for you and all that kind of stuff. But he was writing this book as a love letter to how much he enjoyed working there and sneaking around the base when they weren't supposed to. And all these other people seemed to chip in on it. But he does have a chapter called Manzano's Aerial Phenomena. This is chapter 23 of the Kindle edition of his book. And I did want to read some excerpts from this one chapter. It's kind of a brief chapter, but obviously it was enough of a thing that he felt like it should be included as part of the existence in this area. He mentions August 25th, 1951, a Sandia-based security guard saw a wing-shaped craft flying at 800 to 1,000 feet without making a sound. He estimated the size of the aircraft at one and one-half times the size of a B-36 wingspan, or about 350 feet, with a speed of 300 to 400 miles per hour. It had six pairs of glowing soft lights on the underside and remained visible for about 30 seconds. June 5th, 1952, a staff sergeant saw a shiny round object flying much faster than an F-86 jet fighter for about six seconds before disappearing. June 8th, just a few days later, 10.50 a.m., two Albuquerque residents witnessed four shiny objects flying straight and level in a diamond formation, going back to what you were talking about with the formation a little bit ago, which also reminds me of the Phoenix Lights, not too far away. A different time period, but still, on July 26th, again, 1952, 12.05 a.m., an airman saw eight to ten orange balls flying very fast in a V formation for five seconds. But one of the most interesting ones was this particular case, and again, this is in that chapter in the Kindle edition of Chapter 23 of Inside Manzano, the Life of a Nuclear Special Weapons Storage Site. An article in the U.S. Air Force Project Blue Book relates this incident. On November 4th, 1957, two Kirtland air traffic controllers saw a 15 to 20-foot egg-shaped object in the sky with a white light at its base. This highly maneuverable object crossed the flight line, taxiways, and runways flying in the direction of the tower. It was flying about 50 miles per hour, just 20 to 30 feet above ground, until it reached the northeast corner of the restricted Manzano nuclear weapons storage area and the B-58 bomber crash site, where it hovered for approximately one minute, then headed east again. There was a lot of crashes at this base, by the way. One website provides this UFO information. Around 1979 to 1980, there were two reported UFO incidents at Manzano, where these unidentified craft landed inside the fenced-off perimeter, despite the security of the base. However, after further research, one UFO enthusiast came to the conclusion that those two incidents were most likely drone technology. Perhaps some military unit was testing out how easy it would be to breach Manzano. The Air Force Office of Special Investigations agent, Richard Doty, who you may have heard of if you follow the UFO community at all, was responsible for the investigation and completing the paperwork for those two incidents. So, I want to come back, though, to this one particular sighting on November 4th of 57. Here are some further details on that. At approximately 2,245 hours, air traffic controllers at Kirtland picked up an egg-shaped object on radar, circling over the base at an estimated speed of 150 to 200 miles per hour, and then descending as if it were going to land on runway 26. Instead of landing, the object crossed the flight line and headed toward the northeast corner of Manzano Base, where it hovered for about one minute, then turned into a steep climb. The object disappeared from the radar and then reappeared some 20 minutes later, following a C-46, which had just taken off for 15 miles or so before it went off scope. So, that's that same event. It's weird, the details of it. And apparently, later, it was written off as just a civilian aircraft that got lost and was scared and tried to get out of there because they said all the flight characteristics connected back to what a civilian aircraft could do. But I know that it says later in that same chapter that those two guys that saw it essentially laughed when they heard that it was supposed to be a civilian aircraft. They're like, okay, yeah, whatever you say, because there seemed to be an implication that that was not the case. And I want to read this one other one from this book that is also interesting. Another incident occurred on August 9th, 1980. As a security policeman worked routine patrol, he was dispatched to respond to an ADT alarm. Upon arriving, the patrolman saw a bright light behind the structure and what appeared to be a disc-shaped round object. The patrolman's vehicle radio was inoperable, so he decided to approach the disc on foot. When getting closer, the object lifted off in a vertical directional and sped away at a high rate of speed. Indications are the SP reported the incident to the Office of Special Investigations at Kirtland to be investigated. A preliminary report was filed, but no follow-up final report was ever published. Why? Strong evidence indicates that a final report was completed, but is being intentionally withheld from publication by the Air Force. So anyway, it's a fascinating chapter. Pick up that book by Charles Cabler if you're interested in more there. That's the only chapter on that. But the base itself, all the history of it, and a base that I hadn't really heard of until we got this particular letter, it's very interesting. So there's also many other sightings that we found. And one of the other more significant incidents was a radar jamming incident in August of 1980, where Kirtland radar approach control equipment and scanner radar became inoperative due to high-frequency jamming from an unknown cause. Defense Nuclear Agency monitors determined the interference was from an area northwest of Coyote Canyon, where there's also been numerous sightings. That's right there. It's connected to that whole range. A physical search failed to find a cause, and the jamming stopped suddenly. Conclusion, quote, the presence of hostile intelligence jamming cannot be ruled out, end quote. So, I mean, of course, that is a pretty typical intelligence attack that could have been a foreign government messing with the base or, you know, any kind of thing going on. It could have been spies trying to figure out how to cause a problem there. But in our world, it also could have been something extraterrestrial. That kind of stuff seems to happen, if you believe what they're telling us on the Skinwalker Ranch series, radar jamming, things going offline, things not working. And we're always coming back to that idea that this is a big storage and development base for nuclear weapons, for like the fiercest of the fierce that at least America has available to it. And you were talking about Richard Rick Doty. Yes. And Paul Benowitz. I didn't mention Benowitz yet, but he is here in our notes, yes. If you're interested in that area and you were talking about things being seen over the base and being jammed and whatnot, watch Mirage Met. It's a great documentary that outlines the whole Rick Doty kind of thing. And, you know, he gets a ton of crap, Mr. Doty there, for being connected to a foecy and a disinformation officer, admittedly, self-admittedly, that people say, well, how can we trust anything you say now? Well, could be true, could not be true, what he's doing now. Or is he still working? I think his actual response to that is, yeah, you probably shouldn't. I think that's what he says. Well, I think that's good advice with any of this stuff, is that you have to, you know, try and form softer opinions and then don't be so certain because we don't know. Unless you're in on the inside and then you do know. Then to that point, somebody that was witnessing and somebody very familiar with electronics because that was his business, developing and selling electronics, Paul Benowitz. And he was a businessman whose company was adjacent to Kirtland. And he claimed to see strange objects flying over Kirtland and the Manzano Mountains from 1979, 1980. And again, he had a lot of sophisticated electronics. He knew how to use them. He believed these were alien craft and he also claimed to be receiving communications from them. And he also became convinced of a secret underground base near Dulce, New Mexico, which he connected to Manzano base via underground tunnels. Now, this has also been echoed a lot by people supposedly in the know and researchers that there is a vast network of underground tunnels that connects everything. And we're talking things like Area 51 to Dulce. And there's a high speed rail that because you you can't fly all this stuff and you can't take the highways and you need to go back and forth very quickly. So there's a big theory that they're all connected underground through a special underground dumb, deep underground military base technology and tunneling technology. Yeah. And that's super fascinating. And I mean, it's also very speculative and conspiratorial, but by the same token, it's hard to say that it's not happening because, I mean, when you think about this, if you were connecting and Dulce, we've brought it up on Astonishing Legends in the past. I mean, there's some of the most spectacular stories that, you know, the people say, oh, there's a floor there with cows that have human heads and all this kind of stuff happening. Well, there's a lot going on. And there is an above ground area where you can see gun towers and fences, but that's it. That's all that's on the surface. Oh, are you talking about Dulce? What does it look like when you look at the images of Dulce, you know, just the outside? I think I may have seen a few, but of course it's all going to be somewhat camouflaged, but it's there that, that I don't know if it's officially announced because even with Area 51, it wasn't until a few years and lawsuits brought towards it that I remember the last one famously, I don't know, 10 years ago or more, a woman was suing the government. I don't know the Pentagon, I can't remember who, but the authorities, the military authorities that operate the base because her husband worked there, I think taking Janet Airlines every day. And he was in charge of one of the burn pits because nothing, uh, stuff comes in, nothing leaves that base. And we're talking no computer, no office chair, no piece of paper, no typewriter, nothing. No computer leaves that. Everything is burned. Once it's reached its ended, its usefulness, it doesn't go in the trash. It gets burned and they have big burn pits. And he ended up, I think with leukemia or some horrible disease that killed him. And she was trying to sue and the government and the, uh, the courts came back and said, well, you can't sue because it doesn't exist. It's like, so he just went nowhere every day and worked there for years now. So then finally it's just kind of like, okay, that's kind of silly. It does exist, but it's just developmental aircraft for things like project ox cart. I really don't understand at that point why the government does not just write a check to that person rather than let it run through the court system. Because I think that would be acknowledging, uh, you know, like I said, even if you just paid them off, it's like acknowledging something and they rather, you know, that's the cruel part of it. Well, let them in air quotes, win the lottery or whatever. How could you not cover that? If you can cover up this whole base and all the trash in it and fake burn pits, how can you not cover up a way to, to make it right for this widow? I think it's just, it's just easier to have a threatening phone call. Here and there and just say like, nah, this is not going through. Forget it. Yeah. And that's what seems to happen. And then sadly in Paul Benowitz's case, if you watch that documentary, it is very fascinating, but also very sad. And Rick Doty acknowledges some complicity in this, but it was his job, uh, working for a FOSI that basically, because Paul Benowitz was a patriot and a upstanding American. And he said, well, the government should know about the military should know about this. I'm picking up transmissions and I'm seeing strange craft. And if this is a threat to the U S I should report this big mistake as we've learned for a lot of folks, uh, and then because nothing good comes of that. You're not rewarded with a medal or a coupon for Chick-fil-A, you know what I'm saying? Like you don't get anything for it. So he got a lot of trouble. What will happen is that they locked onto him. It was like, oh, this guy seems to, because they wouldn't bother with him. I think if the information wasn't somewhat correct that he was getting, it's like, well, this guy's kind of locked onto either what we're doing that's top secret or what is happening to the base around the base that we don't want anyone else to know about. We don't exactly know ourselves what's going on. So they assigned Rick Doty to kind of, uh, be his handler of sorts. It's like, okay, sir, uh, giving us information. And in a quid pro quo fashion here, they started feeding Paul Benowitz information and he, you know, got obsessed with it and sadly he started to lose his mental health and it ruined him and shortened his life. But one thing out of that, that I found kind of fascinating that, uh, Rick Doty admitted to, at least on the documentary said, yeah, you know, about 80% of what we were telling him was not factual, you know, or that we made up or, or just exaggerated. Like, uh, supposedly he had a crash site or they showed him a picture of a crash site of UFOs. Like, was that something similar to what you saw? And he's like, yeah, that's, that's similar. And it, the photo was faked or if something else, basically to kind of feed him along and to go to him, to start telling him like, well, what are you seeing that we're doing around here? What would exactly are you, you know, you, you're our special underground guy. You know, we need you, you know, the American needs you. And it kind of, it did ruin him. And, but the fascinating aspect of that, what Rick Doty said was like, yeah, about 80% was, you know, false, but 20% wasn't. What's that 20% that's real that they were telling him? That was not just baloney, but just like real stuff that was happening that they were monitoring or were doing or knew or didn't know about. So he, as he claimed 20% of the information was, was real just to keep him going. So it wouldn't totally sound like baloney and they keep them, you know, under, under wraps of sorts. So anyway, that's just Paul Benowitz's claim. It's not a factual statement about the, uh, about the aliens. It's, uh, what I can tell you is that there is something at Dulcy that commercial aircraft cannot fly over. I know this from experience because, uh, I think maybe I've talked about this anecdote on the show, but I was taking a kind of a later night flight, like eight, 9 PM, uh, coming cross country back from a, uh, a show I was working on. And I had the flight monitor, you know, on the back of the seat, I think it was a Delta flight. You could track the airplane. And so just kind of like casual looking at that, looking out the window, of course. And the, the, the theme here is to always be looking up. Uh, I was looking out the window for anything strange and, uh, not really paying attention, just relaxing. And I felt the airplane change direction. Like I felt a shift. I'm pretty sensitive to that. It's like, well, what's happening? We're turning here and not in a gradual turn. And I was checking the, it's like, well, where are we? I was looking on the flight map, uh, the live flight map, and I could feel the airplane kind of turned to the right. And then it kind of came back around to the left again and proceeded on, on its path. And I said, well, where are we? And I, I zoomed in and it made this crescent, you know, in a straight line, it made a crescent shape or half circle. Right. And guess where it made the half circle around Dulce base. Right. And I knew enough at that time. And it's like, oh, that's why you cannot fly directly over it. That's why we took a little flight detour. So there's something there. Well, you know, Dulce, the thing that's fascinating about us, it's 133 miles north of this base. So if things are connected, that is a hell of a lot of tunneling. But like you said, if there's a high speed rail, that could take an hour to get to, if you could get it built. Or less, yeah. And the other thing that's fascinating is, is when you look at Manzano and the, all the caves they built and the bunkers and the 60 entrances and all of that kind of stuff in the very Shawshank Redemption kind of way, that would be really the way that you sneak little tiny things in or out coming out of all different doors. And there's never anything clearly pointing to a giant underground project beyond just hollowing it out and then putting things in there like they're a closet. But you could, so if somebody sees something from a satellite and you'd be like, oh yeah, we're storing, that's a nuclear warheads section. We're storing all those in there. But what are you storing in there? Maybe you're putting something else in there. Maybe you're building train cars in there for the high speed rail to Dulce, or maybe there's all kinds of things that could be happening. And then if you take, I mean, we're really going off the deep end here, but then if you go all the way to where we've got aliens cooperating with us and maybe they're boring tunnels for us and making it real easy to make the connections underground, who knows? Who knows? There's a great book by Nick Redfern, all about, it's like an encyclopedia of secret underground bases and military installations and listening to that. And then I also heard a guest on years ago now on Coast to Coast talking just about that, like, okay, you have a big problem. What do you do with all the dirt that you're tunneling out? What he was claiming is that there's technology. And again, it's advanced to top secret of tunneling where you're taking that silica material, the dirt and various detritus where you're tunneling, and you're able to turn that into a glass-like hard substance lining the walls with some kind of superheated fusion of some kind. And so you're basically melting the dirt to form the tunnel walls of this thing. And so you don't have a lot- Okay, so it kind of compresses it in a way. Yeah. You don't have to do the old cartoon thing where you see the shovel of dirt flying up through the air from the digging. You don't have huge mounds of dirt because, yeah, it's got to go somewhere, right? Well, what if you're able to use that in part of the construction process? Yeah. And folks, I just want to say for people that aren't aware of one of the most famous jailbreaks of all time out of Alcatraz, one of the things that Frank Morris did there was he would carve out the wall in a cell and then put it in his pocket, which had a hole in it, and he would go out into the yard and just shake a few teaspoons down his leg until he was basically moving the wall from his cell to the yard by doing that. So that was the implication I was making about the bunkers there. Same thing Andy Dufresne did in the Shawshank Redemption. He said he was into geology and he got a little tiny rock hammer requisitioned, and then he would just, yeah, take a pocket full of dirt. And time plus pressure, folks, if you do that long enough, you can have a tunnel. So anyway, what I loved about this is the description of the craft because that's significant in the way that they were kind of wobbling and the other one was darting around and you would just, I saw this article also about a jellyfish UFO and orbs flying around it and absorbing the orbs at some point and then flying off. Yeah, well, it doesn't even fly. It just kind of flashes out of existence. Yeah, it just kind of flashes out of existence. Maybe too fast. I mean, it may fly, but too fast for us to see. Right. The interesting thing in that video that I sent you was that there's three smaller craft, two of them enter the larger one, and then the larger one and the third one disappear at the same time. The third one never goes back to the larger craft. Right. There's some kind of phenomena happening there that is beyond our common knowledge. And if it is ours, it's kind of wondrous and maybe reverse engineered. But in any case, keep looking up, folks, because there is stuff up there. But you're, you know, look, we look up all the time. And I know, yeah, you've been making more of an effort to look up during the daytime as well, because most people don't. Yes, I do. And now I'm trying to look for just predator-like anomalies in the sky because I no longer believe it's going to be opaque. Well, I think there's a fairly good chance that almost no matter what, that Jordan saw something and it was unusual. The question is whether it was terrestrial or extraterrestrial or interdimensional or whatever else you want to say these days. I can't think of a really good reason not to believe her because in that area, there's a lot of weird crap going on, both human and possibly non-human. So I think it's possible that she did see something or probable even. And I don't know what it was, but we know, as we've said historically, in terms of nuclear military bases in particular, there's a lot of activity if you believe all of the things you hear from folks that are stationed at these bases. And in addition to that, we're in a part of the country specifically where new technology is being developed that isn't revealed to civilians for decades until, usually until it's retired, frankly. So there could be all kinds of things going on there, but I don't think there's any reason not to believe that there was something in the sky that day. I like all the elements to the story as they seem to line up for me. You have the location, great. That's where stuff like that happens. Nuclear facilities, military bases, New Mexico is the land of enchantment. So that's a lot going for the story here. And also the description of the craft and their motion tracks, as they say, with some sightings, many of them, also the large black helicopter. And let's not forget that. And in the text, I think there's a, well, there's asterisks or parentheses around the word large. So I don't know if that means like overly large, unusually large. Yeah. And was that helicopter cooperative, offensive, or defensive? It could be any one of those three categories, really. But another element that also goes along with a lot of these sightings that go afterwards of like something following up, like they're monitoring and also makes me think it wasn't ours then. Right. And you know what? The other thing I thought about too, just quickly with her story is the idea that she felt a sense of peace or harmony, which is like a lot of people would be like, oh, whatever. She teaches yoga. She's woo-woo. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Here's the thing though, that is something that a lot of experiencers report is that they are, they're getting a message of not here to hurt you, a calming feeling, that sort of thing. Other people report terror with orbs. Oh, yeah. That's a whole different story. But in this case, and is that the truth? Who knows? Maybe these things are lying telepathically, but whatever the case is, there's a lot of stories of folks experiencing that same kind of feeling, which in a way made me also believe her story more because that is something that's commonly reported. Right. In both fashions, people either get a sense of horrific dread and flee now, get out of there and always listen to your gut folks, or do the aliens have some kind of peace and love ray, which has got to be better than the death ray, but the peace and love ray is like, everything's fine. We're just here to help. Yeah. You can report this, but no one's going to believe you. Well, I do go by a lot of people will poo-poo the, uh, the internal feelings, but I'm a big believer in that because that's all we have. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, who knows what that is unless you're on the inside. So go with your gut. And if that's what you're feeling, uh, maybe don't touch or lick the UFO, but the sighting is fine. And I'm glad it ended up being a more peaceful feeling, not one of terror and being kept up at nights wondering about this. Well, Jordan, as we say in both the dead letter office and on Astonishing Legends, we're never going to tell you what you saw. Your experience is your experience. And this one sounds pretty cool as long as you didn't have any missing time after it was over. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. And next time, snap some pictures and send them in. The Astonishing Dead Letter Office is hosted by Scott Philbrook and Forrest Burgess and is executive produced by Tess Feifel. 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