S1 Ep45: Uninvited Intruders

Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it, so your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you can save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Busted Appliance? This is your sign to upgrade. Shop at Lowe's to get up to 35% off and next day delivery on hundreds of major appliances. Lowe's. We help you save. Valid through 318 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. Order by 4 p.m. Available Monday through Saturday. Subject to availability. Fees, exclusions, and restrictions apply. See Lowe's.com slash appliance delivery for more details. Visit your nearby Lowe's on Executive Boulevard in Salvington. The views and opinions expressed by hosts and listeners on the Astonishing Dead Letter office are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Astonishing Legends Productions, the Astonishing Legends Network, or any affiliated entities or guests. When something unexplainable happens to you, it can make you feel isolated or alone. But trust us, you're not. For over a decade, you've been sending your strange stories to Astonishing Legends. And now it's time for our fellow legenders to hear them, too. Join us weekly in Blanket Fortiana as we dig through your intriguing messages to the Astonishing Dead Letter office. Tonight's episode, Uninvited Intruders. Tonight's dead letter comes to us from a listener from the West Michigan area who's asked to remain anonymous. And this is another case of not just a lone witness reporting a lone incident, it's a whole family experiencing something and confirming the happenings as they all witness this. And whatever it is, it may have just been a resident spirit of the house or land and just generally haunting the premises, or it may have been fixated on our listener tonight. This is a real traditional Dickensian haunting here. This one is like straight out of Christmas Carol, which I thought was pretty fascinating. Or maybe perhaps Tobin's Spirit Guide, which I really wish that was a real book, but it's not. It's waiting for you to write it, sir. Or I guess us. But yeah, we're still working on the Astonishing Legends almanac. So after that's done, then we'll get right to it. All right, man, I think it's your turn to read tonight. All righty then. Hello. I've been a longtime listener of your podcast for the past several years, and I've wanted to submit a story since last year, but it always slips my mind because I work so much. So now I'm finally getting it sent to you. It's about an exceedingly scary presence that haunted my family over a period of years. We lived in a 1940s era concrete block house in a suburb south of downtown Grand Rapids, Michigan. Initially, me and my two older brothers all roomed together in a basement bedroom, a large room with a fireplace, two walk-in closets, and a bathroom. The basement was connected in walk-out style to the attached garage. My earliest memories of this downstairs room included hearing footsteps persistently each night. Eventually, this morphed into something much more frightening. I would regularly hear chains and chairs dragging outside of the bedroom door most nights, sometimes including hammers banging. The bathroom toilet paper roll would occasionally unroll itself as well, and I would also experience a presence sitting on the corner of my bed, meaning the experience was both inside and outside the bedroom. I later came to understand that it wasn't just me experiencing this stuff. My brothers did as well. Occasionally, they would awake to a witch ride, a state in which one felt a presence on top of you restricting your movement. These experiences were not just limited to my brothers. The rare times my father would take us out of town, my mom would be frightened of noises originating in the basement too, including something walking up and down the stairs between the basement and ground floor. One night, I finally had an experience that persuaded me that I needed to move upstairs to the ground floor. I had gone into the bathroom, and to reach the bathroom, you would walk between the two walk-in closet doors. As I was coming out, I was walking past one of those closet doors, and I heard a bang, and the door swung out quickly behind me. For the first time, I felt not just emotionally threatened, but physically threatened. Not long after, I moved to a bedroom upstairs on the ground floor, and I thought things would finally end. Unfortunately, this wasn't true. Outside the bathroom, in the yard by the edge of the house, was a cast-iron cover that covered the well room. We were too rural for city water. On a few occasions, visiting the bathroom in the early hours of the morning was accompanied by something very heavy stepping and banging on this iron cover outside over and over again. Out of pure fright, I could never bring myself to look out the window and see if anything was there. You might think we had large game in the area, but the wildest animal that ever came into our yard were feral cats, so there wasn't an obvious explanation. Overlaying all of these events were more than occasional experiences with balls of lightning traversing the basement bedroom from one cellar window to the other. The unexplained awaits. We'll return to the shadows momentarily. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it, so your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Now, back to the show. Well, this is another one of those matter-of-fact stories that's just very much like somebody's like, well, yeah, this happened. And, you know, when the bathroom door swung out, that kind of freaked me out. This house was complicated for me to understand when we first got this letter. I had to really sit down. I actually kind of drew out a floor plan because I was trying to understand where the well room was and all that kind of stuff and the downstairs bathrooms. But, like, once I understood everything, it's pretty wild and the creaking on the stairs. And, you know, our wonderful composer and sound designer, Alan Caressia, did a lot of fun stuff with that. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Alan, so much. Yes, thank you. We don't mention him enough on the show. No, I was trying to picture the house itself, and I would love to visit that house, just see the layout, and experience something because, well, I don't have to live there. So it's nice to visit, get creeped out, and leave. First of all, yeah, what a nice basement for kids to have grown up in, you know, minus the haunting spooky stuff. But nice big layout, walk-in closets, two of them, your own bathroom. You don't have to run upstairs. And it sounds like each of the brothers had enough space down there, and a fireplace. Yeah, exactly. But what is up with the chains? Always with the chains. It was, seriously, you had mentioned Dickens at the beginning. That also struck me right off the bat of, like, the chains and then the, it was at the Disney Halloween record that our school librarian, at least, would always play near Halloween and read some spooky stories for us. So I really enjoy that, such fond memories, that woo in the chains and the, made me want to look up that quote from A Christmas Carol. If you all remember, Jacob Marley says, I wear the chain I forged in life. I made it link by link and yard by yard. I gutted it on with my own free will. And by my own free will, I wore it. And as a kid, when I saw that, it's like, what is up with those lock boxes in between the chains? Like, chains aren't enough, you've got to have the heavy steel boxes and the little, the strong boxes in the middle, and it creeped me out. So I understand the narrative aspect of that and just the multiple chains in general. And that's what I understood as a kid, not having heard many real-life personal ghost stories from people that featured chain noises. I just thought it was like, oh, that's kind of spooky. And then you start hearing people tell ghost stories that they experienced, and it features chains. Then the skeptical part of you says like, well, is that just because, you know, something popped into their head because it's such a part of popular culture? You know, in every ghost story. And yeah, and the album you heard as a kid in grade school and first and second grade and the fun part of that, and it's just a spooky noise, and that gets injected into that experience by a knowing spirit or your own imagination, which is it? Or is there something really to do with chains on the other side? And I remember one of the more creepy anecdotes I'd ever heard, which ties into a larger concept that you and I enjoy, which is ghost activity, spirit activity that is so regular and in your face and accepted and recognized by an institution that they write a manual for it. So when we first started doing the podcast, I had a producer that I worked for. She was really terrific, but she had a college roommate who was studying the mortuary sciences. That's a degree. I think her family may have owned a funeral home or was somehow connected to that. She kind of grew up in that or just had a morbid fascination with a very necessary business. And she was going and taking all those classes, and I think she got a job at a mortuary. It was one where they did prep the bodies in the creepy basement downstairs below the parlor part. And being the newbie, you're the one who works the night shift. And we're talking about somebody, I know people don't associate that, but I did say mortuary sciences. So this is a very scientific-minded person, very skeptical about all this, didn't care. It's like, no, it's just part of human life and death, and people need to be prepped. It's necessary, and I think I'm good at it. So she was working these night shifts, doing the overnight prep on the body so they would be done more quickly and available during the day. And she started hearing noises and just first banging around. And then part of the noise, cacophony, were chains. Okay. The way it was described, it was like chains on a pulley or a dumbwaiter, like just... Uh-huh. And then kind of piling down on a concrete floor. I just really pictured that, like, what is going on? What is being lifted? She was baffled because there were no chains in that building at all. And then, having done the show, I wondered if at some point that building did have something like that, and you're hearing some kind of echo of the past. Or is it just, change or spooky, so the ghosts bring those out. And they bring out the sound effects of the chains. But anyway, so, you know, at first she's just discounting it as, oh, the building's settling. This is the temperature change at night. All the irrational things we comfort ourselves with, all the mundane explanations. But the chains and the moaning and the groaning noises, it started to get to her. Finally, it's like, okay, I can't deny this anymore. Something's happening here. And it was really creeping her out. And she wasn't getting all of her work done. And she wanted to get the heck out of there each night. So she finally talked to her boss. And she said, hey, I know this is a very serious business. And I take it seriously. But I have to tell you. He goes, oh, are you hearing ghost noises? And she's like, yeah. It's like, I know, they're really creepy. We all hear them. We've all had to go through that. Sorry we didn't really prep you. But, you know, we didn't want to scare you. And she goes, well, you recognize that that happens? Like, oh, yeah, yeah. We've all heard those. And it happens. And we don't know what it is, really, other than if you believe in spirits. It's spirit noises. And she says, what do you do about it? Like, oh, well, in that case, we have a manual. So you've been hearing spirit noises. And it's a serious manual. He handed her, like, a booklet. And it's like, what to do? Now, I would love to get a hold of that booklet. I told my producer, like, man, if you talk to her again, I'm sure it's a professional manual. And it may be just specific to that one facility. But it did exist. And she said, oh, yeah. I think she saw it even. And I said, I would love to get a hold of that thing. I just want to know, like, what do you do? Like, what are the precautions? How do you soothe yourself? How do you put up with it? Is it like just, you know, outlining the place with tea plants, spraying some sage mist, burning some Santo Paolo wood? I asked about this, man. So it turns out that I know a family that is involved in the mortuary business in High Point, North Carolina, the Cumby family, C-U-M-B-Y. And Donna Cumby actually listens to our show. Oh, welcome. And has spoken to me about it frequently. Shout out to Donna if she hears this. But I asked her about this because you've told me this story before. And so I was like, did you guys have anything at the business, you know? And she was like, no, we don't have anything like that. And I was like, okay. So then which makes me wonder about in the case of your story, if those people were saddled with a haunted building, in addition to it being a mortuary, and they just baked it into it. And maybe they assumed it had to do with the fact that it was a mortuary, which would track. Or was it just a haunted building that they're in, and it also happens to be a mortuary? But either way, Donna said there was no manual, at least at her business, at her family business, about that kind of stuff. Right. So my producer and I, you know, she, we're in the business of producing events and training, not hunting down ghost stories and manuals. And so our thinking was that it was probably specific to that one facility. And I don't think, personally, I don't believe it happens at every building. I'm sure it's actually pretty rare. It's one of those things where you would probably be surprised thinking like, oh, I'm sure most of them are haunted. And my bet would be that most times at most mortuaries, not much happens. It's little stuff. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's not frequent. But it does happen, of course. A lot of people, a lot of dead folks go through there. And I'm sure some stay. Yeah. But it's not so much that there's an industry-wide manual, you know, so you heard a ghost, you know. And there's also the Beetlejuice idea of this, right, from the original movie when Adam and Barbara, you know, Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis, you know, trying to figure out how to scare the Dietz family out of the house. And they're just doing all the parlor tricks. And that's what this sounds like a little bit, which does make me wonder if for this guy, if our listener, if they were targeting him in a very specific way because he was a young man and his family was his, you know, his brothers were younger. And they were like, well, this is what scares the kids. This is what's going to scare the kids. So this is what we're going to do, which plays into that whole idea from Monsters, Inc. about them feeding off of your energy from being scared and all of that kind of stuff. There is a term for that of spirit energy garnered from fear and high emotions. Right, right. But in this case, I feel like it's probably just resident of the building or that land. And it's not necessarily the building. It's not an old building. It's from the 40s. You know, yes, that's old, I know. And, you know, a lot of people associate with something bad happening in the house for that to happen. And I don't believe that's always the case. I think it also could be just the land itself. And so, you know, not being a flip here too much, but the chains as a sound effect. Yeah, that's, I suppose it's possible that they're making noises that would creep people out just to do it. We've come across that idea quite a bit. The poltergeist, the Stratford poltergeist that we talked about, and they asked it, why are you doing this? And he said, for fun. Right. And that's perfectly legitimate to me. Well, not in the sense that you should be doing that to people as a spirit, but the fact that it's an honest answer and it's, why not? So it's a valid point by the spirit. But in this case, like I said, I think also there could be something to that. It's one of those tropes that just seems too silly to keep going on and not be just part of pop culture. Because what about the hat man and the hats? What is that about? And it starts off as cowls and monks' robes and hoods. And then over the centuries, it turns into hats and then seem to be mostly stuck at fedora styles now. But still, you know, it's like they haven't caught up. Maybe another 200 years, they'll catch up to the stingy brim and the trilby. Yeah. Well, the people kind of stopped wearing hats. So if they wanted to stick with a hat, they had to go with like the last round of, you know, aside from Pharrell and these artists and people wearing, you know, $700 fedora. But for the most part, people don't wear hats that much anymore, except for baseball caps. And I think the hat man was just like, no, that's not. This isn't what he puts the baseball cap on in the mirror. He's like, I don't look scary. On the other hand, did you tell me in that story of the person that you saw at Waverly, was he wearing a baseball cap? That's a good question, sir. The non-scary person that was dressed like a normal. I feel like early on you said maybe he had a hat on, but I can't remember now. I have a very flash, brief visual memory of that happening now. And I will attest to it and swear that I did see something. I'm just not sure what it was, even though now I question myself, did I actually see something? And I'm not sure still, but I have to go back to the moment that I was in. And I definitely remember that. I didn't black out or anything. I do remember feeling like I did see somebody cross. And at the moment, I thought, like I said, it did seem in my mind's eye, or at least my visual field here, that it was somebody who probably did have like a ball cap. Yeah. I felt like you said a long time ago there was a ball cap on. Yeah. Again, that added to the mundaneness of it. Ball cap, something like a short sleeve, you know, summer type shirt and shorts. And then I'm picturing just like high tops and socks or something like that. It was just so mundane, you know, not out of the ordinary of what people would be wearing there. Now, if he came marching across there and he had a snow parka on and ski pads, it's like, okay, that's out of the ordinary. What's happening here? But it was so within the limits of reasonability that I didn't question it at the moment. I just thought like people started coming up from the other wing. And it was just somebody I hadn't seen on the tour yet. And so I do remember, yeah, I thought there was some kind of baseball cap because it also seemed like a younger guy, college age or a little older, but no older than like mid thirties maybe. Right. And just the impression I got. And so, yeah, it's like just a regular ball cap, but getting back to the hat, man, why a hat at all? You know, that's the question. Yeah. And then if you believe these stories, why the horns? What does that do for you? We often ask that question of, is there something to the symbolism, you know, the visual aspect of it, of the witness and what the spirit is, if it does exist, what is it doing? Why is it choosing that? Is that a real thing? So I was having a little fun with the Jacob Marley Christmas Carol passage there, but the concept maybe has some weight to it. And as Rich is going to tackle A Christmas Carol, I think. That's already been released. That's already been released. Yes. That's right. Yes. I think that maybe there is something to the concept of penance or something or holding you down or something about chains that is symbolic and meaningful on the other side. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Rather than just because I hear a lot of chains and it's usually in our garage and there's no chains. You know, it's like, it's not scary. Right, right, right. You know, I worked construction a little, I've done household projects a bit and the actual noise of chains is not scary. Now, moaning and groaning is, of course, because you don't hear that unless someone's in terrible pain. So, getting back to what this person experienced, the footsteps, again, mundane, chains, mundane. You put it all together, though, it's a scary experience. The footsteps, when we stayed at the Monte Vista, remember that? In Flagstaff. Oh, yeah. And we, of course, we, you know, started the show, we were in full swing and really looking for a ghost experience. And I remember us talking to the night manager there. I think you actually booked the most haunted room. It was at 235 or something, whatever it was. But I think it was the second most haunted. I think somebody had the haunted one above us. And then it was a second, you know, where a woman was thrown out of the window. Yes, that's right. The other one. Yeah. And we couldn't get in that one. Right. Yeah. We asked the manager, like, you know, you must have some ghost stories. She's like, oh, yeah. And I said, what about the most haunted room? And she said, well, interesting you ask because I had booked a young couple in there the night before. And I can't remember if she said they purposely wanted to stay in the haunted room or didn't believe in any of that. And they checked in. It was a normal night. And I think they came running down at like three in the morning and saying, like, we're out of here. So either you get us another room or we're leaving. And I can't remember what the choice was, but they didn't want to stay in that room. She goes, okay, what's going on? And I think it was the strange noises, pipes. I don't know about chains. Maybe there might've been chains, but you're in a hotel, like it's old. There's pipes that rattle and bang, you know, and, and creaking. What freaked them out though, is that they heard, keep in mind, they're on the top floor above them is just the roof, not even like an attic or anything. So it's just the roof, but they heard footsteps in the room. Okay. That creeped them out. They can't see anything, but it sounds like someone's walking with heavy boots across the room. And then the footsteps sounds are going up the wall and over the ceiling. And they're like, that's not possible up the side of the wall. If it's over the ceiling. Okay. Maybe somebody is on the roof. This is like thump, thump, thump, cross the room, up the wall and over their heads on the ceiling. And they were like, that's it. We're done. Yeah. I can't remember if they switched rooms or just checked out completely, but that's what I'm talking about. It's like, okay, mundane sound, not mundane scenario of hearing that. Ghost of Lionel Richie, except that he's not dead. Right. Yeah. Dancing on the ceiling. But yeah, so you put all that together and this builds up. And with this family here, with the boys, you think you can get by. And like I said, there's a fireplace. It sounds really nice. Like what a terrific space. Large enough. Everybody's got enough space to grow up in. It sounds terrific. These basement things, they're so spooky. And again, talk about stories we've told before. You know, a woman I know who I no longer can get in touch with or I would have her on the show. Her family had a house in Atlanta and they were in the basement. And she was there with her, either, I think her brother. And they were down in the basement watching TV and the parents were out. And there was a basement bar down there. And they had the TV on and the lights off. They're on the floor watching TV. And they hear this, like this sound. And they can't figure out what it is. They look around. They don't see anything. They go and they turn on the lights. And there's like five barstools at the bar. They were all spinning. Oh, my. That's terrific. Yeah. I like that. So they went out. She said that they left the house, went out, sat in the front yard until their parents came home like three hours later. And we're like, we're good on the basement and we'd also like to move. She said that was one of the craziest things that ever happened to her in her life. But, you know, the other thing about this story, too, was like the ball lightning. Yeah. But that's an ultra, ultra rare occurrence. And the fact that this guy is, you know, if you believe any of this at all in his story, you know, he's seeing ball lightning in his house in that same basement with all of this other stuff going on. Yeah. Or is it just orb activity? A very highly charged orb. Ghost form orb taking form of orb. Yeah, it fits. It all tracks as an experience. We've heard many times from others that these are all kind of the same things that we're hearing about. And then you wonder, you know, again, trying to piece this together. It's like the cast iron cover. That's very common. And also creepy things happening. If you watch a lot of ghost documentaries where they go exploring, like there's something about water and being near water and wells. And it's, yes, it's the creepy sealed off well that nobody discovered until they started digging around in the basement or the sub-basement. And they discovered that. And it's like there's something about iron. Iron has an effect, usually for blocking those spirits, they say. Right. And then some folks will actually place iron spikes or railroad spikes in different parts of the yard in a place that they're investigating or trying to repel bad spirit mojo in. And so there's something about iron and spirit activity going hand in hand or not going hand in hand, repelling it, and water. And something about, you know, about the cast iron and something stepping on it and stomping on the lid. And I can picture, that was the other thing, I could picture that sound. Yeah. What that would sound like. But yeah, it all kind of adds up here. The door's swinging open behind him and it's like, okay, that was a little too close. That could have hit me where it was very close. And then you feel like you are being singled out or attacked. Yeah. It's now become personal, not just random noises. Well, and that's the thing I wonder from this listener, if anything else happened the rest of his life. He's very matter of fact about this story. Yeah. No, I like that. It's very direct. It's concise, but well told, you know, precise as well. But just the fun stuff of like, yeah, the toilet paper roll, just unrolling itself onto the floor like a cat would do. Yeah. In my house, that's, yeah, the cat did it. Or you, I can imagine, after a spicy meal. But here you have the dragging, again, most nights, and then hammers banging. So, again, that takes me back to some kind of construction or the building of the house. And then I wonder, the whole area there, we've heard a lot of stories coming out of Michigan. So, another, like Ohio, it's got. Yeah, I was going to point that out. It seems to be a kind of a spooky state. Surrounded by water. There you go. And it has been occupied by Native peoples for a long, long time. And then Europeans for a long, long time. And if you like good Michigan stories, I wanted to mention, there's one of my favorite ghost hunter documentarians. And that's Steven Prozac Shippey. Binged on a lot of his offerings there. And man, does that guy get good evidence. Like, creepy, chilling, on camera, hard to deny. Can we back up a second? Is this man's middle name Prozac? Yes. Because, of course, he is a rapper. Or was a rapper. So, that's his rap name. Oh. Yeah, no, that is his stage name. And just his wiki page here. Oh, I know this guy. Yeah, you do. Because I've suggested a lot of his documentaries, at least, to you. And so, yeah, born August 25th, 1977. Well, okay. So, here's what's weird about that. Not the year. First of all, that's today, as we're recording. This won't be airing for a couple of weeks. Happy birthday. That is literally today. Happy birthday, Prozac. And secondly, it's the day before my birthday, which is tomorrow, August 26th. Yes, and happy birthday to you, too, sir. There we go. Thank you very much. By the time people hear this, it'll be two weeks later, which is fine with me. But, yeah, so that's pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah, I totally recognize this guy. I've seen his stuff before. He's great. So, yeah, he was with the groups. Let's see here. He's a member of the group, Project Deadman with Mikey Clark, Bedlam with Madness, and Staplers. Staplers. Staplers. Staplers. Staplers. But he was one of the few rappers of Assyrian descent. Oh, cool. I think maybe the first or only. Yeah, so there was a distinction there with his culture. Yeah, so he has a whole music career, but then he started producing, it'd be a great guy to interview here, but he started producing documentaries about ghost huntings, you know, like A Haunting on Hamilton Street, A Haunting on Potter Street, A Haunting in Saginaw, Michigan. So that maybe reminded me of the Michigan connection there. Sure. Haunting, so a lot of his, all of his titles are Haunting Ant, something. So Dice Road, that's a good one. The Hoyt Library has something on camera that looks like a little old lady hobbling librarian. I will say this, he gets a lot of great evidence, and then you're thinking like, man, this is so good. Then you start doubting it. Like, it is that thing where- Yeah, yeah. That's the case with some of these guys. But I will defer. Jack Osborne was definitely, seemed to me, it was a little sketchy in his show. Yeah, I don't get that. No, I don't- God rest Ozzy, his dad, by the way. I don't get that vibe here, though. There's just a genuineness to it as well. And so, again, you know, who knows? I'm not- It's always controversial when people get evidence like that. I'm sure there's people out there that- Well, no, but this is my point, Scott, to a degree, is that, yeah, you get that in a documentary, and it's gold, baby. And then you experience it in real life, and then you put it all together in a story like this, and, you know, is that people's reaction, like, oh, come on, all this did not happen. You heard some footsteps, somebody was, you know, goofing around, one of the boys was goofing around, banging chains, and that's all it was. Yeah. Banging hammers, stomping, you know, there was a deer pawing at the iron grating over the iron lid over the well. Right. That's all you heard. Right. You know, it sounds like it's too much, but this is over many years, and it's not a documentary, and then, but again, still, I think it causes doubt in a lot of people who haven't experienced it for themselves, and so, but here, it's nothing so outrageous also. You know, it's that sweet spot zone. Well, if you don't believe in spirits at all, or an afterlife, you're not going to buy any of this, but we've come across that. The photo is too blurry, it's fake. The photo is too sharp, it's fake. And then you're in the middle there, where it has to be just right, that Goldilocks zone of evidence, and then, well, Bigfoot's not real at all anyway. Neither are ghosts. None of it's real. But I don't believe it for these reasons. Oh, yeah. It's like, well, what do you want? That's true. That's true. You're not going to believe it anyway, but getting back to the experience here, the other thing that kind of is more terrifying is what is quoted as the witch ride. Oh, yeah, yeah. I have big memories of that term being used, but really, people would call the old hag syndrome, or, you know, it's the feeling. Which we talked about on the main show. Oh, all the time. I don't remember the term witch ride, but, you know, maybe it's one that we threw in there back when we were talking about all the different things they call it. Well, no, the presence sitting on your chest and constricting your breathing or movement, that's very common with, you know, and again, people would associate that with a hypnopompic experience as you're waking up or falling asleep, hypnagogic. And that's very common. And sometimes they see something, sometimes they don't. They just feel this presence and it feels like something or someone's pressing down. And when it's even scarier, something's around their throat, like hands. A very common one is something sitting on the edge of the bed or at the foot of the bed. And a close friend of ours even had something that touched his toes over the blankets. He's like, that's not me imagining it. That's something was squeezing my toes and I could look down the end of the bed and nothing's there. Well, it would be interesting to know how this continued to play out. These kinds of hauntings are of the sort that make us wonder if the experiencer somehow controls what they're experiencing, even if it's subconsciously. These manifestations feel like they are uniquely geared towards scaring a child in this case. Well, let us know if anything else happened as you grew older, our anonymous listener, and if you stayed in that house longer. Thank you for sending your story into the Dead Letter Office. And folks, if you have a story, email it to deadletteroffice at astonishinglegends.com. We'll see you next week. The Astonishing Dead Letter Office is hosted by Scott Philbrick and Forrest Burgess and is executive produced by Tess Feifel. The show is edited and mixed by Sarah Voorhees-Wendell at VW Sound. The theme is based on the Astonishing Legends theme by Judson Crane at Founder Music, arranged by Alan Carissia, who composes all the other music in the show. Tommy Beaver Design created the logo. The announcer is John Bolman. That's me. Stories are lightly edited for length, content, and readability, but otherwise presented as they're sent to us. We're always looking for more Dead Letters, so if you have a story of your own you'd like to share, email it to deadletteroffice at astonishinglegends.com. Please include how you would like to be credited. First name only? First name last initial? Anonymous? A pseudonym? Let us know. Due to the number of emails coming in, we often cannot respond, but we do read them all. No part of this show may be reproduced anywhere without permission. Copyright, Astonishing Legends Productions. Astonishing Legends is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible. 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