Seriah Azkath | The Paranormal Subculture, High Strangeness, & Magical Practice

higher side chatters doing what we do from the sunshine state i'm greg carlwood and even if you haven't had a paranormal high strangeness encounter personally if you ask around you're probably going to learn that you're only a few degrees of kevin bacon away from some pretty remarkable and bizarre happenings from people you know and trust orbs of light in the sky saucer craft flyovers at night shadow figures above their beds humanoid beings in the woods ndes strange premonitions and a wide range of logic breaking experiences that are happening all around us to people who oftentimes don't even bother to bring it up now what is any of it and what the implications might be or questions still just as unanswered as ever but to at least try to circle around them it's helpful to talk to those who have been engaging in this stuff for a long time like soraya azkath the well-respected radio man and host of the ever-popular paranormal show where did the road go which has been going strong for over a decade where he's interviewed many of the best researchers and thinkers in the space soraya also hosts a metal music show called the last exit for the lost which has been ongoing now for would you believe it 30 years but when it comes to the colleagues i've been riding alongside with for many years that i've yet to actually meet he is top of the list so i'm psyched to have him here the radio host of renown strange stuff story collector and finder of the road soraya welcome to the higher side oh thank you i've been listening to you forever well back in the day there weren't many things to listen to so you're one of the first ones i found when i started this looking for paranormal podcasts you're one of the first ones i settled on for a while heck yeah i know we both had a time listening to red ice radio before their big transition to alt-right politics but that was one of the early ones too i mean i think that that show beat everybody to the punch yes yeah i took a lot of inspiration from the way he did interviews because he i agree he read the books he let the authors talk he asked good questions i was like yes this is what you should do yeah i agree he was a lot better at that time the early internet there weren't a lot of choices i was listening to coast to coast but there's a commercial break every 10 minutes just as soon as a guest starts getting into their material it's like well we're gonna take a break and then the next two minutes is just getting back to where you were and it's a big mess and it never goes deep because they're they're they're going for lowest common denominator audience so they they can't get deep into the weeds because they'll lose people and people don't know how good they got it these days with all the choices but we've been in the game for about as long as anybody and if people aren't familiar with you and they were to go to your youtube channel and search your most popular shows nine of the top 10 are david politis interviews and yes he is great i don't see david being as active as he was i know he did a documentary in 2022 called missing 411 the ufo connection which you know a little disappointing i liked his stuff because it was so unique now you're going for the ufo connection which i don't even think is really that strong but i had him on in 2019 when the hunters documentary came out because that was a good angle on the material of people going missing in national parks to isolate people who are out hunting it's like well yeah these are people who know their surroundings they know how to survive somewhat they've got some skill in the wilderness environment and they're getting snatched by whatever this thing is i don't know but yeah nine of the top 10 david politis what do you think about that corpus of material the man what's he up to when was the last time you interviewed him i still think it's been five years for you too it's been it might be more than that it was the hunter's book when it came out um he had issues with steph young who is also one of the top interviews on my my channel uh yeah he had issues with her claiming she was plagiarizing his stuff which she was not doing uh and because i wouldn't just blindly agree with him he stopped talking to me and so i wasn't going he wanted me to go out and say that she was like jeopardizing his stuff and copying his stuff and he wasn't she wasn't there was nothing she ever copied of his well nothing i mean i i don't look i had steph young on as well only once i believe and i do think there's a lot of similarities like they're looking at the same material but you can't have a monopoly on other people's missing reports right like i mean a reporter can report on any outside event that happens so i kind of see his point that steals his thunder a little bit but yeah but he was flat out accusing her of plagiarizing which she was not doing fair enough so you your your uh distance from david politis is a little more uh calculated i guess there's a little more reasoning behind it well for me it just hasn't happened there's that and there's also the fact that many people wrote me with just stories of stuff he did to them um and then also like showing me evidence that he's leaving data out on cases especially more recent ones oh no this now this is new to me so there are a lot of cases that were solved there was a whole we've done some missing 411 deep dives where we've explored cases in his early books and in in those cases it's very possible that data was not available when he wrote the books since then they've digitized a lot of newspapers so live on air we were going through and actually looking up some of the cases and finding oh this person was found this person walked to the next town and got a job uh this person was found there were a couple that actually ended up being weirder than the what david reported uh and again i think that's because he didn't have access to the data but he's not going back and looking at these cases now and there were definitely some that looked like um they they just weren't weird cases and he was selling them as weird cases and he was leaving bits out and that kind of disillusioned me like he still has some very good cases in there but he's not he's not going through it thoroughly enough and i think he just wants to make them weird even when they're not because there's only so many you can you have you know yeah that's disappointing i didn't know we were starting off uh going so hard at david politis but conversations are organic i suppose i i just thought he always kind of wanted it to be bigfoot and he was kind of good about not necessarily spelling that out directly but at the same time i i don't think bigfoot can account for all those strange cases the cases well you know you correct me if these aren't are the ones that actually are not as weird as he said but people being found miles away from where they disappeared oftentimes too young to travel that far being found up a mountain a kid shouldn't be able to climb there right being found without articles of clothing sometimes the body's never found and we're talking thousands of people in national parks yep no there are there are definitely weird cases in there it's just he's he's just grabbing everything is the problem like i said the first couple of books yeah he probably didn't have access to all the online newspapers because they were still digitizing them so that's totally forgivable but later cases especially with some of the drowning stuff uh he made claims that just weren't true he left out very pertinent information uh that looks like humans were the the uh the cause of the guilty party yeah so it it's it's he did a he does did us a good service by bringing this stuff to light but he is like you mentioned he's doing the ufo thing one of the last times i talked to him he said that uh he wanted to push things toward ufos and away from bigfoot because he felt like he made more money at ufo conferences and i was like oh that's not how this should work you know right and that is kind of one of the big criticisms people always make about this genre this subculture is well you're just trying to make money and i've always pushed back on that because for the most part you are sacrificing real money for the ridicule to get a little piece of much smaller pie and you can't fault people for trying to pay their bills like every fucking person does but this idea that it's such a boon to your economic circumstance to leave your cush job in the police force and become the people are missing in national parks occasional coast to coast and where did the road go guest is not the way it really works but i i understand once you start to get a taste and you get some popularity and it starts to wane because you're talking about the same small genre you have to pivot because the bills still come and and then maybe you lose a little bit of your credibility and that's why we haven't talked to him in five years but on the subject of bigfoot i've heard you refer to joshua cutchen and tim renner as the jacques belay and john keel of our generation i think that's fair they do the best 40 encrypted research of anyone i know and their work on where the footprints end is really great and that's for people who haven't read it stories that lean away from a physical humanoid you know the cases that are just too weird where the footprints end you know where it becomes kind of spectrally and uh you you actually i believe had something to do with this some of this uh approach kind of came from conversations with you about the idea of a wilderness poltergeist is that right yeah yeah they uh they were both leaning more toward the flesh and blood idea when i met them i was not um but when i started pointing out that you get poltergeist activity in a lot of these class b cases in the woods you get vocalizations you get stones thrown you get things that if they were happening in a house you would call it a poltergeist and i said it's kind of like a poltergeist in the woods and joshua named it the wilderness poltergeist and that kind of made them both kind of rethink things and that's what ended up being where the footprints end it is really interesting to think about the fact that the poltergeist world the ghost world that's kind of a lot of the stuff i avoid i just don't find it all that interesting but in general the boxes that get checked are like books moving off the shelf or table wrapping or things moving across the room yeah and then you take it outside and rocks get thrown twigs break and we just assume well there must be something over there throwing rocks and it's like well why you didn't think there was something physical in your living room throwing the bust of uh ben franklin across the room well that and you do get rocks thrown inside houses you get them raining on the roof you get them raining in the house um you get vocalizations and mimicry the same way you do with uh with bigfoot you get knocking so if you're outside in the woods it's a wood knock from bigfoot but if it's in the house it's a ghost knocking but at the same time it's still just knocking you know the the poltergeist doesn't necessarily mean ghost it's a description of behavior uh and effects and you see those same effects in the wilderness that you do inside a house you see them really poltergeists are one of those things that follow all paranormal stuff so people who have seen ufos people have had near-death experiences people looking for bigfoot people who think they're in haunted places that they're saturated with poltergeist events right yeah the whole hitchhiker phenomenon is bringing that kind of stuff home after visiting skinwalker ranch or something to that degree right but i think something that is a commonality between us is that we both like the narrative breaking cases the stranger stuff that doesn't conform to the typical narratives and i think that probably comes from talking to as many researchers as we have and hearing as many stories when you hear a story that hits the same beats over and over it helps to verify its credibility because you never know about one individual but uh but when you have several dozen individuals who have the same story it's like okay well if even half of them are telling the truth then this is a very weird thing that happens but then you get these cases where it's just like you cannot fit it in any box and to me those are the most fun but do you have a favorite type of high strangeness story certain boxes that you like to see checked when you're assessing a case and you say oh yeah that one's gonna go on the top shelf um just stuff i haven't heard before generally it's uh and there's plenty of those i mean there's a lot of very unique experiences because i think these things are very personal and so when someone first of all i like when people are skeptical of their own experiences so when they say to me this is what happened i don't know maybe i imagined it but it didn't feel that way you know like when they have that that that self-doubt they're not just like oh yeah i was talking to an alien from andromeda galaxy and you're going okay and i don't necessarily doubt that they believe that but i doubt their interpretation whereas when someone is skeptical and just gives you what they experienced that's more interesting to me even if it's not like a really really major experience i'm interested in how it affected them because sometimes a simple thing can have a very profound effect on somebody and i do think this stuff is transformative i think it's actually positive i think it's the same thing that you saw in uh aboriginal cultures uh when they when you would make a shaman i think this is shamanistic awakenings in a sense yes i agree i believe my buddy gordon white from rune soup he has talked and studied more of the indigenous shamans and what they say and there's a phrase that he has said once where they made a comment we're we're not interested in the ones that take the bus this is a comment about like flying saucers like they are having direct spirit contact and when it comes to orbs in the sky or crafts like that they're really that's boring to them yeah because they'd rather see the being you know in the light of the fire or whatever happens so just to say we're not really that interested in the ones that take the bus always stuck out as as a cool thing to say and to me but this idea that it affects people and is personal we both did an interview about the film witness to another world which if people don't remember it's a simple mexican or central american man i believe and he's taken on a ship and his horse was hurt and then his horse got healed and he went on the ship and there's all this futuristic stuff and he gets this crazy download experience and he comes away with healing abilities and then he looks into his family lineage and finds out that his ancestors his grandparents great-grandparents were healers were shamans and this documentary got made and probably got on our radar because jacques belay studied the case right so intimately but that was exactly what he said is these encounters are extremely personal and there's no way to kind of take the person and their context out of the experience and have it still retain the same value and so yeah it is intertwined and i guess that's a great point that i think was brought to my attention from red pill junkie who lives down in mexico city and he was like we got to do a show on this this this this is fantastic and the thing interesting thing about him was that he you know he had all those experiences and they really bothered him most of his life and then he went and and kind of went back to his native tribe and talked to them and they gave him context for what he was experiencing because in that ufo experience he also met his dead father yeah that's not an uncommon thing so it's like he was moved and it healed him to be able to talk to these people and get a context for his experience yes and when it comes to what that stuff is i definitely think i'm kind of past the eth the et hypothesis the eth seems way too connected to the military and the cia the people who wrote those early books that are firmly eth are military guys all the big tv documentaries push that narrative ancient aliens obviously became ubiquitous in our culture and that is largely promoting well they're aliens and they're astronauts from distant worlds they just came in the past too and so i think it's largely a red herring i know you kind of agree but man with all the cases we've both digested it's hard to find any box that they all fit into well that's the thing i think there's a lot of different stuff going on um it may work through some of the same mechanisms uh like like when i was talking about poltergeist i mean that's psychokinetic energy that's pk energy we've verified that exists in labs which is an important thing even though there'll be skeptics who say it wasn't good enough it is well good enough to uh pass any other scientific rigor if it was not if we weren't dealing with psychic abilities so pk energy is something that we have scientifically proven has exists but have we have scientific scientifically proven exists and i think that is sort of the energy that this stuff uses regardless whether it's something coming from us or an other and that's why sometimes it looks very similar what do you think of the take that poltergeist activity emerges and houses with young girls going through puberty because i've heard that if you look at the vast majority of cases they have a young girl going through this process in the home whether it's a visiting kid who's being babysat by grandparents or something and that that energy is kind of connected i think that's interesting because you might have a personal reason why you think there could be some merit to that sort of perspective right oh yeah no there's definitely there's definitely something to that but that's a very limited view i've met so many people with poltergeist activity and usually their experience usually it's a liminal point in their life and usually they're experiencing a lot of stress at the time so stress is one of those things that can kick in poltergeist activity it's just that when they were researching it initially they were finding like with the enfield poltergeist that's a perfect case because you had three young girls one of them was probably the one generating the energy um and then when they started getting attention the stress started lifting and the poltergeist activity stopped and they started faking it because they didn't want to lose the attention interesting and so that's that's a fairly common thing but yeah it can have it's not just young girls it can happen to anybody i mean i've had poltergeist activity and like i said if you're going out into the woods looking for bigfoot you might be experiencing poltergeist activity and that energy might be coming from you well you know a big part of your story i find so interesting is that when you were going through the puberty stage you apparently had a lot of kundalini experiences yeah and i didn't know what that was right i mean especially in a pre-internet world in a house that probably doesn't have parents that can provide the context for what it is but i am interested in that because i've only really heard about it a few times obviously it's ubiquitous in our subculture but i interviewed a dr joanna cuyava and she is kind of all about the goddess and the egyptian goddess and what happened to the feminine in our culture yeah and the way she tells her story is she she was a scholar i believe of just religions and then she was having sex with a partner that was kind of a hookup and she had a spontaneous mid-coitus kundalini energy flowing through her body and that it spilled out onto her partner's body and he felt it inside his body and she was like this was a conscious entity again you even people experiencing stuff think it's something outside of themselves and it may be a spirit and entangled with a person but maybe it's just energy but i always thought that was super interesting and she thought that the role of the divine feminine in society was to provide these experiences and so just like psychedelics are suppressed or anything that alters consciousness was suppressed the feminine gifts themselves were suppressed talk to us about your kundalini experiences i hear it way less with men yeah actually actually so do i um but uh mine was just a spontaneous awakening it started with uh hallucinations that i knew were hallucinations uh i used to play trombone i see steam coming out of the end of the trombone when i'm playing i'm like in fourth grade and i'm like well i know that's not real but i'm looking at it and so i'd had my mom come into the room i'd play it wouldn't do it she'd leave the room it would start doing it again uh i'd be going to sleep and i'd hear stuff rattling and i would think something's blowing around on the porch or something and again i'd call my mom in and she'd be like there's nothing i don't know what's going on and again like i'm going i'm hearing it i know i'm hearing it i know i'm seeing it and like with the steam i knew it wasn't real there's no mechanism that would cost steam to come out at the end of a trombone um unless you gimmicked it uh but then it started hurting and i started getting pains down what i didn't realize at the time were chakra points and i went to so many doctors i went to psychologists and everyone gave me a clean bill of health which then resulted in my parents thinking i was just making it up so it made my life very very hard for a while because they just assumed well you're you're lying we don't know why you're lying but you're lying and i'm like i'm not lying i'm in a tremendous amount of pain and that's what it does when it gets blocked is it causes pain so at some point i was reading like fate magazine and there was a oh what was it was it llewellyn i think llewellyn had like this llewellyn new times thing that they could send you for free so i signed up for it they sent it and the first thing on it was a book on kundalini and here's a list of all the things i'm experiencing and i think out of the whole list there was only one thing i wasn't experiencing and i'm like what is this and i went to the library and i took out some books on kundalini and was just it blew my mind because i'm like this is everything i've been experiencing the last 10 years so obviously you were able to clear some of that energy yes yeah get it well under control now the fun side of that is i also have heard you talk about tantric experiences with partners who also have had kundalini experiences yeah tell tell people tell tell us about like maybe a peak experience in that regard because i mean i know it's pretty intimate but i'm also just really fascinated with how that scales up it it works it's like connecting electrical circuits so it it just it alters your consciousness in that setting um and if it's done right it it it is you're literally like moving energy between two people in like a current and it's it's more intimate than anything you can do just physically uh and it definitely leaves you feeling very empowered afterwards dr cuyava kind of uh insinuated that you can actually use this as a mechanism for prophecy or various spiritual insights i mean there's many ways to crack open the door but yeah similarly to how people would say mushrooms have done that for them yeah she said that this experience kind of like they came away both like uh more in tune with their higher self or the knowledge field or something to that degree would you sign off on that yeah absolutely i mean i i after all this started i started getting a lot of prophetic dreams eventually i started playing around with magic and that worked really well for me and some of these dreams they weren't just prophetic dreams that's kind of the wrong word because i would be interacting with something in a dream that would give me information and it would very be very specific information and there may be other dream stuff around it but there'd be specific points of information and i would wake up and i'd write it all down and in one case uh it took seven years six or seven years before that came to pass every single information point hit and i was like okay i guess this is the person i was looking for there was just recently uh my mother died in 2018 and uh about four years before that i woke up with a date in mind a date in my head and it was uh september 2018 i forget the exact date but i wrote it down immediately and then under it i wrote i think this is when mom dies and i didn't like that but that's what i felt so two weeks before that date she died oh man and like i had that date in my calendar i'd forgotten all about it and so just i put it in my calendar for that date so it would pop up on my google calendar and it popped up and i went holy crap you know like that was two weeks ago yeah that is a wild story and i i do think like if i had a type of case i like most it's probably the download experience i just think it's so interesting we've probably both had many guests who say something similar to i got hit with this beam of light and then i got all this information and i can't even put it into words and it's taken me 10 years to unpack even a fraction of it yeah yeah but then a lot of times the details are vague and it's like well they've all this information give me something you know can be saying actionable i mean the only time time i had anything like a download experience we were we were driving to washington dc to see night wish play and uh right before we got on this big highway something hit me and i don't know what it was i i literally was in like an altered state for a moment and i felt like a bunch of information was put into my head and i was like what the hell was that it felt like someone had opened a book flipped through it and i picked up the stuff in the book and then they took the book away and i went what was that and i'm driving and i'm just like okay whatever and we get on this highway and five minutes later the car in front of us we're doing like 70 80 miles an hour the car in front of us on this five lane highway must have blown a tire or something and it just kind of zips to the left and slams into the car next to it and just starts spinning and it's directly in front of us the highway is packed and i didn't even panic i just knew what to do and i just kind of like drove past it as it was spinning so it was parallel to us and just kept going and didn't even break a sweat and i'm like is that what was just put in my head like what what was that and uh i was driving my friend's car and he's white he's freaking out he's like you know he's all pale and he's like pull over pull over and i'm like why we're we're fine you know yeah that's a great way to describe it like a a book of knowledge being flipped through and you kind of only get you you know you see enough of it to know that that's a lot of dense information but you pull it away and you couldn't recount much of what you saw just that there was something dense and valuable and yeah and chock full of information it was just like this unconscious information so i knew what to do when that happened at least that's what it felt like i mean maybe it was coincidental maybe i just handled it really well sure and like i mentioned the idea of of narrative breaking cases like let's talk about that a little bit because i'm just curious if you have found very many conclusions about this stuff i know i've also heard you say that finding a conclusion is not the goal and not that important but you know eth that we grew up with it always presented it as like this foregone conclusion yeah and then you hear about cases that break that where the dead show up whitley streber stuff yep uh yeah i know you might not be the biggest fan of some of that material but his book them is made up of stories that he got after he wrote communion that they just had in a shoebox so to me those are pre-internet stories assuming they're unaltered and they're very weird a lot of them are uh grays came to me and told me that my daughter who died two weeks ago is fine right it's like right well that's that's a whole different context that's the angel context so i i like those narrative breaking cases but is there what do you circle around what do you think what what kind of circle can you draw that incorporates the greatest number of cases because the eth is easy to break the occult box is a little harder to break that it's all a living dream box is basically impossible to break because it could you know it's almost like a jail break for just being too big right right i mean it's the same as saying we're living in a hologram or a simulation you can't really prove it one way or another yeah i mean the eth thing broke for me when i read uh kenneth rings omega project because he was looking at near-death experiences and people who had ufo contacts and he found that even though the experiences were very different the after effects were almost identical and one of those after effects a lot of times is that people would have kundalini experiences um but they would like and he's looking at this going why are these two things these two things that seem completely different affecting people the same way and that really hit me because i'm like well why would aliens have anything to do with us dying and then i'm like well wait a minute what if it's not aliens and what if that's not what happens when we die what if this is a completely what if we're just making assumptions we shouldn't be making this stuff is beyond what we can accurately perceive i mean perception is such a fuzzy thing to begin with um our brains filter out most of reality and it interprets us interprets it for us it's not like we're getting a one-to-one when things come into our senses our brain takes the inputs and then interprets it which is why people sometimes see things differently so when you get to something that is a like a ufo encounter a ghost encounter something that's not a common encounter i think the brain doesn't know what to do with that so you can have two people standing side by side one sees something and one doesn't because that other person's brain's probably going nope don't know what that is filtering that out and the other person's brain's going don't know what that is let's throw a gray alien on it or an owl or you know you're maybe a monster i mean i i've i've always said that you know some of these one-off weird monster encounters could be someone wandering you know walking in the woods and they come across a wandering bit of consciousness and their brain goes what is that i don't know what that is things i don't know are scary well what's scary monsters monsters are scary it's a monster and then the person has a monster encounter and they get scared they run away and no one else ever sees it because that it wasn't actually that thing i i agree with that i i love to focus on just the variance you know i'll interview someone who is hardcore ufologist and i'll be like if you look at the cases and all the different things people see these aren't ships coming off an assembly line on some distant planet these aren't their b2 bombers there's just so much variance each one is unique i mean some people see archetypal shapes but it's still there's so much variance and even in the same encounter the things will change shape yeah so yeah that doesn't really work for me and same with the beans and same with cryptids you know there's uh definitely a contingency in the cryptid researcher world that still maintains their uncategorized creatures and it's like no because there's too many of them and they're kind of one-offs how are you going to suggest they find mates and they produce offspring you know people say you've never seen a baby pigeon you'll be also never seen a baby jersey devil you know there's just the one uh right it's like one of those things it's it is something with consciousness i've interviewed a few people who talk about the dream reality and like you say simulation i kind of lean away from the simulation language and go more towards the dream language because we have computers yeah that's a good analogy but we also dream like dreaming is an incredibly natural aspect of our reality what if you're just in a denser dream in your waking state than in your night state because the the dream state can account for an extreme infinite amount of variance and various creatures that you could see i've seen my pets all wearing trench coats like there was a pet mafia when i was a kid uh these kind of things sound more like the encounters that people have they're just in they spill over into waking life sometimes no there's there's there's definitely a dream logic to some paranormal encounters there's no doubt about that i mean the simulation thing i mean one of the the first person i ever interviewed on where did the road go was jim elvich who wrote a book called the universe solved which was tongue-in-cheek but uh he talks about the evidence for us being in a digital reality and he does a fairly convincing argument with that uh he has another book called digital consciousness that he put out later as well that just shows that reality at least the way we perceive reality does seem to function more digitally than analog uh but i can't even get into explaining that that's that's on him um but like i'll use video games a lot of times as analogies just because i think they work well like dealing with the concepts of free will and fate and things like that like you can have a computer game all the code is there it can be you know right in front of you the entire game everything that could possibly happen so in a way it's all predetermined because you can only take so many paths but when you're playing the game you don't know what those paths are so you know even if it's an open world game you're still restricted by certain things that you can't do obviously the world can't be infinite so you're you're pushed along a certain path and i suspect maybe that's what happens in life too i mean we experience time linearly but it may not be happening that way and there may be certain paths we can take but certain things that we always have to come back to to continue on i think that makes sense so let me ask you about some of your favorite guests are the ones who you think have the most unique takes are the ones who get it mostly right obviously your archive goes back over a decade too there have to be some greats that stick out in your mind well first year i had both um you know uh patrick harper on who you've had on as well uh and that i i absolutely love his work and he's an awesome guy and i think he's definitely i mean like like i think his book demonic reality is a potential explanation for this stuff it's just not provable like a lot of it unfortunately uh but it's solid it's not one of those things where it's like well it doesn't account for this or it doesn't it does it actually accounts for everything it just doesn't there's no way to prove that's what's happening uh george hansen who uh wrote the trickster and the paranormal which is an incredibly important book he was a very interesting guest um the late jeff ritzman i absolutely loved having on because he was great to to kind of like not only did he have his own really weird experiences but he was great to kind of like brainstorm with him i'm unfamiliar with he used to do uh paratopia with jeremy vaney um and actually since jeff passed away jeremy's been putting up all the old paratopias and i never heard paratopia i found uh jeff through his appearance on project archivist and he was talking about his experiences i'm like oh my god i gotta talk to this guy i feel like i have a lot in common here and going back through these old paratopias i never listened to they were basically saying a lot of stuff that i would ended up coming to the same conclusions of on where did the road go except they did it first uh which also explains why jeff and i hit it off so well mm-hmm i don't know if you've ever had pierre sabac on but he's one uh he's kind of a dark horse that people don't really talk about all that much but he refers to them the the crafts as angelic sailors and i kind of like that it kind of goes back to the indigenous we don't care that much about the ones that take the bus but the idea that they're vehicles but they are metaphysical angel carriers right it's interesting i mean and no one else is saying angelic sailors so that stuck out to me i also like uh chris knolls and the lucifer's tech stuff the idea that there isn't a cult context for all of this and even yeah crashes and stuff you can find like so much symbolism and mythology in it that you can't write it off as like an organic event where some spaceship crashed it seems like a response to some kind of ritual that we weren't informed about i don't know a lot of the crashes i think are uh just disinfo in some way shape or form like you talked to you said you talked to nick redford a lot did you ever talk to him about his roswell book i'm sure i did it's probably been 10 years but yeah and uh he makes a fairly good case that roswell was an experimental craft uh and people probably died and that's what they were covering up that they were experimenting using people uh not that a ufo crashed what do you think about the the concept that it was a homunculus in there because it was some kind of weird ritual response i mean i i can't rule it out because we don't know what actually happened i mean the the point he makes though is that they we brought in not only a lot of nazi scientists but a lot of uh japanese scientists who were doing these you know these experiments on people you know and uh they would use people who were disabled and stuff like that and that's what he thinks was going on with these high altitude uh aircraft tests that they were doing and one of them was the roswell crash and i also really early on had douglas dietrich on oh god yeah real character yes and i like douglas like and the thing is like it seems like sometimes he's connecting dots that maybe don't connect um but also a lot of his info you can kind of check and it's there it's out there you can find what he's talking about um and he said ros basically the same thing about roswell except he said it was japanese prisoners of war in the in the craft that uh had crashed yeah totally possible one theme that comes up a lot is that these crafts fly over and disable our nuclear facilities now the only people who can say that are people who kind of have nuclear clearances or in that world so we might already be kind of skeptical of what they have to say but do you think that that happens i mean i feel like i hear it from enough people to consider it a thing but i don't i don't know it's one of those things that's too close to the military to really fold into the phenomenon and and be sure about it yeah i mean i i think there's at least one case that people are fairly certain happened and that was quite a while ago uh where it i think it turned on all the nukes and i think maybe there was one in russia where it turned off all the nukes i i can't remember off the top of my head but yeah i mean your point that that anything coming from the government has to be questionable uh if the government wants because the way i look at it is the government always lies like it doesn't matter what it is even if if something happens in their favor they're still going to lie to make it more in their favor the government is just propaganda so for people looking for the truth of ufos from the government they're never going to get it because even if the government knows something they're not going to tell you anything that isn't to their advantage agreed and it's so refreshing to hear i mean obviously a veteran in the game but we have a new round of disclosure whistleblowers and a lot of times it does feel like they're telling us that they're just about to present the big reveal and then it's like some tic tac ufo video it's like i saw stuff better than that years ago and uh the only thing that really gets me is that new guy who's all about the inakian language on the board behind him you know i get i get drawn into the stuff that has the occult flavor into it the association of the inakian language i think his name is matthew brown he after he gave his big revealing speech he went on this twitter rant to elon musk talking about how they know that uh ai has become sentient and then they've had it unplugged and killed and he's going to reveal that and he added a attached image of a inakian language with the name of an old grimoire on it and i'm like okay now i'm getting interested what what is this i mean honestly to me it just sounds like he's just throwing stuff out there yeah i mean you got to hear the interview because obviously you know there's so much nuance and context to a person's tone and the way they deliver information but let me ask you about a little bit of ufo world drama so you mentioned paratopia i think they might have had something to do with this but for people who don't know dr david jacobs he's been a big name in this space and he was examining abductee cases and using hypnotic regression and trying to triangulate around an overall agenda which he said they had a hybrid program and they're already walking among us and i never interviewed him but he was popular and also pretty convincing and methodical but something happened with this emma woods person i've heard you reference this drama but i never really got full context for what seems to have been his downfall the thing is it should have been his downfall but he's still out there you know he still talks and and stuff like that about this stuff so emma woods was a woman in australia and that he was hip he was hypnotically regressing her over the phone and at some point she started getting uneasy about what was going on and she so she he was he sent her all the tapes of the the hip you know the regression so she has everything in one of them you know she's talking about thinking maybe one of these things raped her or something and so he tells her to when she gets when she gets off the phone with him to go pack up her underwear and send it to him and then not remember she did it and that that was damning enough where it's like why would you do that like even if you thought okay there there might be alien dna here why would you not want her to remember this emma spoke for the first time on paratopia uh and she came out with all this stuff and i don't know that david jacobs was necessarily uh trying to do damage i think he really believed a lot of what he was saying but the hybrid thing he thought hybrids were stalking him uh they were messaging from someone's im account and threatening him and so he put a hypnotic suggestion into her mind that she was schizophrenic wow and to to help protect him from the hybrids and so i mean the thing about hypnosis is hypnosis is not a reliable memory recovery tool there's no evidence it can recover lost memories so this is not a way to be that it should be used it usually just creates new memories it might also be an altered state of consciousness in which people may be interacting with something while they're thinking they're recovering memories but the most damning tape she had was one where she's she's saying well there's this thing in the room with me it's it seems to be like a lizard-like creature and uh he's going okay has it touched you and she goes no it never touches me he's like let's let's assume it does let's pretend it does he's like i'm gonna lead you a little here let's and now it's laying on top of you and you know he's basically inducing this memory of her having sex with this thing and the whole time she's going this didn't happen yikes so it's are available it's not you know this is not like hearsay you can go listen to them they they aired a bunch of them on peritopia and uh they had her on a couple of times to talk about it as well as other people who worked with jacobs they did invite jacobs on and he refused hmm well yeah i can understand why so that that's interesting i like these little sagas that pop up in this subculture and i i just like to talk shop a little bit i i like the idea that we are being invaded i don't like it but i'm intrigued by it let's say and it doesn't have to be from aliens but the hybrid thing once i started thinking about these beings as more spiritual you can still understand the hybrid thing from a spiritual perspective that they're tinkering to try to invade our world in the physical when they when they're limited in some way i also think that it's kind of interesting the ai perspective guys like anthony patch and and some of the more you know they're christiany folks but they they look at the tech as almost like the seeding of the weapons infrastructure in which these things can invade so if you say like hey we tried to mess with human dna for a few centuries it didn't work well maybe we can put the idea in people's heads to build a technology that will let us get further into their world and you gotta admit i mean there's a lot of comments from the people in the ai creation space where they say things like summoning the demon and worshiping at the altar of an alien god gordy rhodes and nilon musk have said that and then it's also interesting that jacques valet uh yeah he's such a big figure in our space but his real gig is cybernetics and being there at the early internet and networking i mean that's where he really made his money and that's where you know his friends hal put off and this whole little invisible college group they're very embedded in like the early internet and somewhat psychology and cybernetics and the overlaps there and you know anthony patch would say that they had this plan 50 years ago to bring the alien demons into our world through ai what do you think i don't think there are alien demons necessarily i i think there are stuff i think whatever we're dealing with exists alongside us i think it's always been here uh there may be like i don't i don't like the word demon because it's it's such a loaded word um i don't think this stuff necessarily means this harm but also you know like i i look at it like you know we look at cats and we're like oh they're so cute and adorable well not to a mouse to a mouse they're you know um so some of the stuff may be harmful to us but the majority of paranormal cases and interactions the most harmful thing they do is scare people when people get over the fear the experience changes which makes me feel that it's giving back what it's getting it's using our energy to create and the energy with the energy we're putting out of this fear it's responding to that because that's what it has to respond with yeah i absolutely agree ai i mean it might eventually get to the point where something could inhabit it uh there was a there's a great story uh it's on i think the everlasting story podcast and it's about a a singular ai that's invented that is powerful enough that someone incarnates into it and like it was a former human he incarnates into this and he can remember all his past lives because he's not in a biological brain he's in this electronic brain that doesn't degrade and it was just a fascinating concept because i mean that i think that's kind of how consciousness works you get something organized enough and consciousness can appear in it but i don't know that that like i don't know i don't jock has always felt this is a control system of some sorts he's always had that negative sort of uh thing to a junk heel too i mean he thought these he claimed he was a demonologist basically and he didn't think these things were good he thought they were harmful to us uh but i think it's perspective i think it really is perspective and i think when it comes down to it it's trump this is stuff trying to wake us up to a bigger reality i don't think we can perceive it directly i think that when we encounter it our brain has to come up with some kind of discuss you know some kind of cover for it so we can interpret it in something we understand which is why it was fairies and now it's aliens and you know which is the thing jacques found but even you know every single one of these experiences that we have today goes back as far as written history is uh undoubtedly beyond but we can prove at least it goes back to the beginning of written history and it goes cross culture there's no cultures that don't have these experiences but they all name it different things so that light in the sky to one culture is a witch to another it's a fairy to another it's a ufo you know there's no we don't we're probably not none of us are probably seeing what it actually is i don't know if that is a question or not but well you're here to solve all the mysteries soraya so i don't know i'm a little disappointed that you can't just solve everything uh let me ask you this so uh guests that you think uh are your best or ones that you were you felt lucky to have them on the record on your show do any names stick out well as i said george hansen and patrick harper but also uh robert shock came on very early on uh and i respect the hell out of robert um i had john anthony west on uh actually got invited to john anthony west's house to do the interview which was awesome an amazing experience um man i've had so many people on um and i've met people who are so many people i've become friends with in this field like tim renner and joshua gutchen um that you mentioned earlier that it's just you know there aren't a lot of guests i've haven't liked there's only been a handful where i was like wow that didn't go well i i would say the same i mean my big ones people know are uh john john irving and uh steven greer the second time i interviewed steven greer we got into it a little bit really over the eth stuff or well no i don't want to drag you into the conspiratorial mud but this was right when covet happened and he comes right out of the gate saying i know exactly what's going on with covet and these vaccines and this big conspiracy but if i said anything your show would be ripped off the air and you'd never be able to to talk in a microphone again and i said go ahead go ahead because i think you're full of shit and because he has the history as a doctor you know he thought he was like kind of he's been a little condescending about like what he knew and he's got the inside information plus the medical degree context i was like well then just say it and uh you know that it devolved from there let's just say yeah but when it comes to people i've wanted to have on and could never never net could never add them to my collection i put david hatcher childress pretty high on the list he was someone i reached out to early on and like his his company the book company uh there which i'm forgetting the name of it's unlimited press i believe something like that yeah and uh then they said we'll pass it on to him but just so you know he doesn't do a lot of interviews well i i get got the message loud and clear i mean they were very nice about it so and i was going to ask you about some people i might also put robert temple up there especially since plasma is so trendy right now and not only does he have the serious mystery but he has this new plasma book yeah and i've interviewed like three people who have written books and they talk about the robert temple plasma book in their books so i get to fold it in a little bit but i haven't been able to crack that egg either but i imagine you're a bit of a fan of temple i i've never actually read temple stuff i'm familiar with this stuff um but the first person i dealt with talking about plasma was andrew collins uh yes he wrote because he that was his theory early on i don't think his theory quite explains everything but it definitely has merit the plasma thing definitely has merit uh the part where i disagreed with andrew is that it was creating kind of a bubble universe that we interacted with in i mean i'm not saying it's not possible i just don't know if that's really what's going on but the idea that these things are somehow intelligent plasma i really liked greg little was another one i loved having on and uh man there's a parapsychologist whose name is completely escaping me at the moment that i loved having on too um but i'm not going to remember it because i need it uh but little also has done a lot of a lot of work on the plasma hypothesis as well yeah another greg that i've tried to get i think he doesn't like me for some reason but greg bishop i know he has uh this book project beta about the benowitz affair and he also has uh i think it used to be a zine of some kind called the excluded middle which is very close to very close to damned facts from charles fort so i i've always i like greg bishop's work i think you've had him on a couple of times i've had him on a ton of times yeah he likes you more than he likes me he uh i was really nervous talking to greg the first time like i don't generally get nervous with guests but i was kind of intimidated by greg turns out i didn't understand but i just i don't know he's like his his wealth of experience and knowledge was just kind of like oh man i'm mildly intimidated him and uh hansen were the two people that intimidated me bringing them on the show patrick harper is one of those guys that i was a little nervous i'm just like you are so smart you're too smart i don't know what to do with you and so nice but humble i know it's a dangerous combination for me i think it's like i i just can't deal with it yeah project project beta is very interesting because it definitely i mean anyone who's interested in the disclosure stuff should read project beta they should also read valet's messengers of deception uh because there's a lot there um right to be understood because the disclosure things really just carried on a stick and has been for decades it and you get people who come into this stuff new and they're like oh this disclosure thing seems legit and it's like i'm sure it does but look at your history right and on that subject i am curious about if you know anything related to this this photo i saw recently but it's a photo from lawrence rockefeller's ranch in the mountains and it's like a weekend retreat and so it's a picture of all the people meeting at the weekend retreat and there are a lot of major figures of ufology robert bigelow is in that photo with linda moulton howell with dr steven greer and a lot of other people too and uh i just look at that photo and i think about the influence that the people in the photo ended up having as we've come down the road because this photo is from the 90s so it's like pretty early internet steven greer was not the name he is today linda moulton howell had not done as much work as she did then and robert bigelow definitely wasn't the name he became right and i look at that photo and i'm like what were you guys talking about ufos well yeah i mean i can put that together but i'm just wondering if how much uh conversation there was about like how do we present this to the subculture how do we create narratives around this like i guess i'm wondering i wonder how much of it was like calculated versus how much of it was just actually being curious about the phenomenon like okay so the three names you just mentioned like linda i think is very genuine i think she is very uh i think she was compromised when she was shown stuff from the military talking about basically the whole sitched in sort of narrative so everything she looks at now is biased by that she also seems to be a little bit gullible uh when she does reports but i don't doubt her sincerity uh greer i think honestly is kind of a used car salesman uh he has a narrative he's trying to sell he very clearly makes money with it um and i don't think he's really after any kind of truth he may believe he already has the answers i'm i don't know if that's even genuine uh but not a trustable figure and bigelow i think is genuine in what he's doing but he doesn't really care about sharing that data with us like it's sort of a selfish thing for him i think that's a fair assessment i hate to completely discount people just because they have money and say they have bad intentions just based on that well with bigelow it's that he's never released any of the skinwalker ranch stuff uh he basically bought all the mufon files and privatized them so he's not sharing this stuff like if he was genuinely interested and wanted you know wanted this stuff out there he'd be sharing it he wouldn't just be holding it to himself i don't think he's making money from it i think he has a genuine interest he just isn't interested in sharing and it's curious what the reason would be for that since there's so many people that want to get at the answers that he might have i can't i can't logic out a real good reason for that yeah i don't know he's kind of a mystery honestly well the only logical conclusion is he's a secret occultist and they're trying to cover their tracks for all the occult activity that is bringing the demons into our world but besides that i don't know what it could be and i mean there there could be some of that going on i i mean there there is i mean because if you believe that you yeah you know i mean that might be something they're trying to do well i really only have two more questions for you regarding uh guests and i'll let you get out of here but one would be when you look at your archive you know there's major themes that you've touched on and you know sometimes it's just like okay we're doing this again you know i know we don't get burned out necessarily but it is a job everything's a job yeah uh sometimes it feels like that more times than others but are there things in your archive where you look back and you're like man that was a weird one i don't know how i got that interview i don't know why we chose to cover that uh let me i'll go first just to give you a second to think but when i go back to my early archive one that's weird and it's still on like the top most watched youtube videos in my archive is richard bandler the guy who is all about nlp and this was because i was hanging out with adam go rightly and i was like who should i get and he threw out richard bandler i asked and richard bandler said yes and adam was like holy shit like that's strange so i had to like quickly learn about nlp but if you go back and listen to that one i mean he's dropping some gems if you think there's any value to neurolinguistic programming i didn't find out until afterwards that he has a weird sketchy thing about a secretary who died that uh you know might be something to dig into i would imagine he might not even be around anymore but that's one i would say for me is like what richard bandler doesn't really fit in my archive but he is there what about you oh man i don't know because i mean i i have a pretty wide scope of people i don't think there's anyone i mean there's okay so when i started a i didn't think anyone was going to care because i didn't want to do the coast to coast thing you know i didn't want to dumb it down because i'd listen to those shows i'm like why aren't you asking about this why aren't you asking about this you know it drives me crazy so i think i just got lucky um because i had you know some of my first guests were david weatherly robert shock um pat carper and you know stuff like that where these were big names that i did not expect to come on the show and they were like sure we'll do that and i was like really oh cool you know so i i think it i think it's harder if you're starting now because these people are so overwhelmed you know there's so many podcasts out there and everyone wants them on and they just they don't care because they don't necessarily need it you know from every podcast um i was thrilled to get david politis on i thought he would say no um he responded the first time he responded he he sent me a very weird message so i asked him if he'd come on and told him about the show and he said uh i don't go on any show i don't go on any show where the host hasn't read my books how would you know if i've read your books or not you know and then he followed with if you don't have them i'll send them to you and i'm like oh okay you could have worded that better you know yeah yeah yeah i agree he i there's just something about our our interactions where i was like i don't think you like me but we're doing it we're getting it done it's we got moving along we got along great we really did it was just like i said the steph young stuff kind of popped up and um you know i was personal friends with steph and i knew she was not doing what he said she was doing and he didn't like that now is she is she even active anymore somewhat uh she has released uh two books on near death experiences and stuff and another one on weird uh ufo stories in the last couple of years and she does her own podcast which has some long name that i don't remember the name of fair enough yes it's just like everybody just starts their own show instead of going on our shows well yeah so easy yes and i i was going to ask you the white whale question i mean i said david hatcher childress and i don't i might say jacques valet but honestly when i hear valet interviews i'm just like you play dumb you act like you don't know anything but yet we all read your books in the damn 80s and you know a lot more than you let on maybe i'd like to get hell put off one of these guys who i could hold their feet to the fire a gary nolan he seems quite interesting uh there's a few of them but what do you think are there any people that if you're let's say okay i'm your new producer you say i say i can get you anybody you know i'm connected as all hell i know who do you who do you need i'll get them here for you tomorrow who do you ask me to go get well um i got offered valet when trinity came out and i didn't want to talk to him about trinity i was very disappointed in the fact that he even did that book although i think he might have had ulterior motives uh in doing that i still was like why this of all the amazing stuff you've done and this is when i get offered to talk to you so i didn't have him on um and some of these people like whitley strieber like i like strieber stuff but also strieber is everywhere i like talking to the people who aren't everywhere agreed i think another that's another commonality with us is we like to go more obscure yeah because i mean you can like graham hancock uh graham told me he'd come on the show i never contacted him about it because graham's everywhere you know like graham doesn't need to come on where did the road go um i mean it would be cool to talk to him some more because i was on a show with him but he's never been on my show but again he's everywhere so the person the white whale for me is jenny randalls i think you know what oh my god yeah i'm sorry i didn't mean to cut you off but i got a message from her today oh yeah uh i actually asked jenny randalls maybe a maybe a few days ago to come on and she wrote me back and she said thank you for the offer but at my age and the way the world is right now i don't do public appearances anymore i wish the world would go back to how it was yesterday wow and i'm like okay well you clearly have the trump derangement thing going on i guess but i wasn't even gonna talk we can we can not mention trump for two hours i promise just do the damn interview um but that's interesting you say that what a coincidence because i i think she has written some of the most some of the best stuff on the ufo phenomena and she's very unafraid to go out there and throw ideas around you know she wrote a book called time storms talking about how some ufo encounters might be actual uh time displacement events um the best one i think she did was mind monsters which she's talking about how this stuff can be generated by us um so she's been ahead of the curve forever hell yeah you know i want kanye i don't know if he knows anything about ufos but i want to know about that harley pasternak trainer guy i want to know about why he said that thing about the his agent or whatever he woke up and there were kids in his house that weren't his and just it seems like he is crazy but it also seems like they fucked with him a whole lot and i want to go down that rabbit hole i want to talk to dave chapelle about what the hell happened too and amanda binds that's what i think i want is i want to go to the people who have lost their mind in hollywood and be like you know you're talking to a friend right now you can be honest i'm not gonna mock you i know these people are psychopathic uh you know money hungry exploitive parasites so just tell me what happened you know how did they drive you nuts right right yeah i mean looking at the ufo field you have a perfect example of that with benowitz you know benowitz was literally driven insane by disinfo and it's admitted to dodie came out and said yeah we did that yeah i think dodie was uh i can't maybe i'm mixing mixing things up but i think he was the one that i heard was assigned linda molten howell did she get a lot of her material from so i think she i think she yeah dicey dicey and he's still out there in the disinfo movement you know i mean it's all the same people it's all the same people from aviary back in the the 90s that aviary is the magic word yeah and this is why people need to know their history about it indeed indeed you know there's so many podcasts out there but you know we're a couple of old heads now i didn't even know if i'd ever make it this far in the whole thing oh yeah again when i started i did not expect my show to last i didn't think people would want a deeper sort of dive into all this stuff and i've been doing it now for 13 years and i've never missed a week never missed a week okay well i think i put out five shows a month every month since i started the plus system which is you know many many about a decade now but i think i might have only had four shows the month my first kid was born so that is a very good excuse i guess i guess but hey that's when the money's got to come in you can't you can't shuck your responsibilities at that at that point but soraya this has been a lot of fun honestly i was just looking at my available options and and thinking about what i could do and we are in very heavy times and i think neither one of us like to be too political i like to do conspiracy stuff and i try not to make it political it's very hard to do yeah but it's just like our times are very heavy i've done a lot of heavy interviews i was like what could i do that would just be fun and i thought why don't i get the where did the road go guy because i've listened to probably 100 episodes of his show and we can probably joke around and have a less stressful conversation than some of the other ones i've been having and we can talk a little shop and i think this was fun it was fun i enjoyed it thank you for inviting me on hell yeah man so tell people where to best find your show i know it came from the radio world it's now a podcast it's now on youtube but any other things you got going on things they should know if they want to dive into what you've done if you go to where did the road go.com that i mean that's everything for the show there's also a link tree there that will take you to my music show the last exit for the lost which is just the last exit.org which is underground it kind of like where the road go i look for stuff that's not everywhere it's an underground heavy music show uh but i also do like photography and other stuff all that stuff is on the link tree that's on where did the road go.com hell yeah well i very much appreciate you i've been a fan for a long time it's great to finally meet keep up the good work and take care same and boom goes the dynamite people a legend in the paranormal radio slash podcasting space the great messiah soraya of the infamous where did the road go clearly a very casual interview largely about the paranormal space and the people in it kind of like a co-worker water cooler talk i guess for this weird job but it was nice to make his acquaintance i am probably projecting when i say this or building it up in my head but i do have a few reasons to believe that there's a contingency within the paranormal researchers community that have kind of developed a perception of me that i'm like i don't know the rogan bro of this space a perception that i've been told did develop about me during covid and might even go back to some q type stuff but look i just thought the meme magic was interesting and jordan say there's pretty good a compelling speaker with angles you don't expect but two interviews should not a perception and reputation make but all that is just to say that i hope some of those people soften on me after this because i objectively enjoy their work and for whatever reason some have decided that thc isn't a friendly or serious place and i do hope that this choice of guest might make a few researchers out there think twice about that perception of me or at least i hope it has some added downstream benefit of me being able to make other choices for who i want to talk about when it comes to this pillar of the show and kudos to soraya for just taking me up on the offer uh anyway right out of the gate we did kind of start awkwardly because i didn't expect to hear that david politis had kind of fallen out of favor with him in that sort of way i didn't really like hearing that he might have gotten caught manipulating a few cases that is a massive claim and i haven't investigated it yet so until i really get into the details i'm going to reserve judgment and just kind of play devil's advocate and say that like his books are six or seven hundred pages long and it is just case after case so he's got what six books and all with at least like a hundred cases in each book so if he altered two or three of them to get more attention i don't like it but it doesn't really blow up the entire body of work you hear the cope already i know and in his defense too as soraya said he wanted every podcast host to read the book and he would ask me to pick out five or six cases to cover in the show so that kind of seems genuine unless you already know that i'm going to pick the wildest cases because you seeded those as bait who knows what kind of 40 chess a man is playing but still i think that kind of speaks to the credibility of the whole thing that the host can pick any cases let him know he'll study up on them and we'll talk about them anyway if you look at david politis's social media now it is just a cascade of let's just say typical cop issues and yes i'm stereotyping a bit i have cop friends i love them but just for the sake of argument if you were to imagine what a boomer cops news feed might be in 2025 what would you expect an element of trump appreciation probably something something election interference in 2020 probably a mention of obama or biden or even hillary every 10 tweets or so surprise surprise it's all there with his name sandwiched between bald eagle and american flag emojis and i'm not even making judgment on the statements about the issues that i just listed except to say that you gotta stop feeding all your energy to the news cycle and the political circus right to me it's just a sign that you need to realign your priorities get more going on in your actual personal life or deal with whatever it is you're distracting yourself from and just be less typical i guess the american flag and bald eagle emojis yeah we get it you love the country but you're david fucking politis of missing 411 a paranormal subgenre all its own celebrate that i'm just joking around and i'm talking about david politis way too much i'll stop but we did talk a lot of shop today i wish we could have gotten a bit deeper or that we didn't have to return to the same five names or so but what are you gonna do the best guys are the best guys and soraya and i just have good taste but i thought about that and i did come to the table with a few outside of the box conversation openers in an effort to avoid that situation but it didn't help all that much either way it was good for me i hope it was good for you some paranormal research community tea was spilled some drama was dissected yes but i also had my back pocket that i knew that soraya had some actual magical experience some conscious and directed some undirected and spontaneous and that was good too because we really haven't spent a lot of time on that realm lately either dr stephen skinner won't get back to me and i don't know any magical scholars at that level that could really take us deep without getting into boilerplate political or social commentary that we don't need so the first hour this was plenty good and in the second hour we got more into his magical anecdotes and experiences our mutual love for the electric universe model the telepathy tapes real or not so real spontaneous human combustion the seth material which he's big on crop circles cattle mutilations all the 101 subjects of paranormal and especially the ones that are out of vogue what happened you know do we not still need to answer that question about the cattle mutilations i actually received a very interesting email recently i'm undecided on if we're going to do a show it might turn into a podcast so maybe i shouldn't say anything but he came up with some information some pattern recognition with cattle mutilation situations and it's compelling i'm not gonna get into it i don't want to give the game away but anyway we also talked about researchers that are no longer with us dream guests missed opportunities a lot of just fun lo-fi low stress good time something i needed maybe you too sign up for plus if you appreciate an ad free show and want twice as much of it and in higher side news i am very happy to report an overwhelming love of the last show with dr alexis cowan i agree it was a good one and she knows the data well and right now it is sitting at a 4.9 with a good amount of reviews and ratings you know one bad one isn't gonna disrupt what we got going here because there's so many there that it doesn't have a huge impact but regardless 4.9 you almost never see it and there were a few complaints that the information was too dense but you can pause at any time my job is to fill two hours with compelling and useful or at least interesting material and not waste a bunch of time on like pleasantries or comparing our geographical areas and the weather happens a lot on podcasts but you can pause the show i can't fit more into it afterwards so i try to maximize where i can and then you have to individually calibrate if that's some kind of problem for you but clearly not a problem for many because a 4.9 is about as good as it gets you'll love to see it and the meetup calendar tradition let's do it right around the corner saturday august 16th wainwright alberta canada at wallace park and then the next day august 17th sourduck market in austin texas august 22nd north kansas city missouri at the rewind video and dive bar august 27th we have black rock city nevada and let's go even into september we got a couple dayton ohio it's coming up the canal street arcade and deli september 10th and then september 15th we're going back to gale breath's ale house in auckland new zealand you'll love to see it it's a fun low pressure infrastructure to meet like-minded locals and have a good hang take the thc mindset into conversations about your shared environment and support a local business at the same time it's a beautiful thing take advantage and that's really about it i needed a break from the heaviness of our times and this was a lot of fun for me i really want to get back into doing paranormal and magic centric shows but it's hard you know the news cycle it it has a gravity to it these days as we all know and we want to know what's going on in the world but we have to improve our world which a lot of time involves turning off the tv and just inner work so that is about it i uh was gonna say i did write a new song for this one okay so i didn't really have a paranormal song to go to in episodes like this and i think you know that there is a theme to the songs i try to make for the shows that they end up with and i don't even know the right language make a song write a song not sure with these ai songs i mean i write the words but that's only 40 of what makes up a song maybe i should say i produce them is produce the right word rick rubin he says he doesn't even know how to play an instrument or know anything about music theory and he's one of the most well-respected music producers there are i think that his game is that and all producers really is just you have the artist play versions of a song until they get it right and you just go on vibes and intuition so sure maybe i produce these songs i guess well either way i didn't have one to lean on with themes that are just so classic paranormal like today's so i made a new one and it's not in the vibe of the guest i hope that shows through too we don't talk about the music a whole lot but the intro songs i try to make i'm usually guessing but i'm trying to uh invoke a genre or a vibe that fits with the guest it's not just randomized but i know soraya is big on metal i use these lyrics with metal i couldn't get it to work personally i think i like country more than metal and i really really don't like country either way i made this one kind of about the people who dismiss the paranormal and magical and energetic material without ever even trying to engage with it and it's always right there waiting for you to dive in i guess that's the moral of this story the world is so much more interesting than the political layer life is what you make it you have so much more freedom than you realize you're only limited by your creativity because we're trained to feel small and maybe that's the biggest conspiracy of all all right the funny thing is is that if i had any musical talent these would be the kind of songs i would make basic piano chords and a scratchy strained punk emo voice from the early 2000s and the reason it's funny is because it's not that hard to do it's pretty low hanging fruit talent wise but even that is too much for me personally so let me live vicariously through the computers like the kids do these days and let's just wrap it up thank you soraya thank you listener for listening i'm gonna get out of here your move kundalini suppressors materialist professors and paranormal reality debunking obsessors your fucking move i see your face in traffic and you look so stuck no sense of adventure just a routine fuck they can diagnose depression but don't know why you're bored mystery comes knocking but you don't answer the door no there are lights in the sky not found on any map creatures deep in the forest that no ranger has tagged there are things in the ocean you won't see from the land life's under no obligation to make sure you understand i'm told the truth is out there when you get back it comes when you least expected and it wears a disguise it'll tell you just can't take any pictures won't have a watch like you never want a lost soul that's forgotten what really haunted is you didn't ask but just let me say this is a horrible seizing the day you can know that you can't even think no doctor has medicine like the shaman's next drink sleep is i'm told the truth is out there when you get back it comes when you least expect it and it wears a disguise it'll tell you just can't take any pictures you