The Mars Session: Joe McMoneagle on Ancient Mars, Out-of-Body Work & UFOs

Instagram teen accounts come with automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see. Learn more about teen accounts at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. That's software overload. Udo is the all-in-one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR. Fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your business. Thousands have already made the switch. Why not you? Try Udo for free at O-D-O-O dot com. That's Udo dot com. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Udo comes in. Udo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Udo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business. Whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Udo for free at Udo dot com. That's U-D-O-O dot com. So one of the cases that so many people wrote to me asking me to ask you about is the ancient Mars session. And I think that's when people bring up remote viewing. Yeah. It's one of the most discussed cases. I know you'll have spoken about this, Joe, many times. But if you don't mind just reframing it for folks who may be unfamiliar and what that originally was all about. What happened, towards the end of my career, I was the only viewer left. Everybody else was dead. Mostly from complications from Agent Orange, cancers, all that sort of thing. I survived. Actually, I almost didn't. At the end of my career, when I retired, I had five heart attacks and open heart surgery. That's directly responsive to being under a huge amount of stress for seven years. The stress was beyond belief. Working for these agencies was just, it can't even explain it. But at the time, when I was getting close to retirement, I was the only viewer left for about 18 months. So I was doing all the remote viewing. And I was having some problems with that. What they did is they decided they wanted to know, since I was always having spontaneous out-of-bodies from my near-death experience, they wanted to know if I could learn to control that. So what they did is they hired Robert Monroe, the man who authored Journeys Out of the Body, the first human to talk about out-of-body events. They hired him to train me, to teach me how to control, how to generate and control my otherwise spontaneous out-of-bodies. So the way it worked, I would do remote viewing from Monday morning to Thursday evening. When I finished my last remote viewing task on Thursday night, I would drive out to the Monroe Institute where Robert Monroe lived and get there about midnight, 11 o'clock, and I'd get up in the morning around 7.30 and meet him in his lab. And he would work with me in trying to train me on how to generate the out-of-body and control it. And we worked together in his lab on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And then 4 o'clock in the morning on Monday, I would drive back to Fort Meade and do remote viewing. I did that for 14 months. And every weekend, that's what I did. And so over that period of time, I eventually was able to do the capability. I can control an out-of-body. I can generate it. I can go somewhere, and I can collect intelligence. Now, what's interesting is in doing that, I think it scared people because DOD, Department of Defense, said, I did a demonstration, by the way. I did an actual target and was able to produce the details. And as a result, they shut it down completely. They said, we don't want you doing this anymore. You have to stop. It scared them because some of the data I collected was scary. But while we're doing this, while I'm working in the lab with Bob Monroe on weekends, the DOD showed up one day. I think it was a Saturday. And I had been working all morning in the lab. And in the lab, when I'm working, I'm in a black box where I can't see anything. It's like a deprivation chamber. So I'm in there. And these people from DOD showed up and said, we have a target for Joe. And so Bob Monroe said, what is the target? And they said, we can't tell you. They gave him an envelope, which he folded over and put in his shirt pocket. And then they said, we need some answers about locations. And they had a list, I think, of seven GPS locations on a card. And so I was taking a nap because it was lunchtime and I was taking a nap to rest. Because doing this was making me pretty tired. And so Bob Monroe woke me up. He said, I have some of your friends here from DOD. And they want to know some answers to locations. And I said, OK, give me the location. So he read me the GPS locations. The very first GPS location I got had a pyramid. And I said, oh, this must be a new discovery somewhere. And he said, well, I don't know what it is. But we're interested in whatever you're seeing. And so I was producing a lot of data about this pyramid. And I said, it's really weird because this pyramid is huge. It's way bigger than the one in Giza. And it's built differently because the rooms inside are huge. They're large open rooms. I don't know how they did that from a construction standpoint. But I was talking about that. And then they gave me a second target location. And I went there and said some things about multiple pyramids. And then there was a straight road that went through some kind of an impact crater. And I was talking about this stuff. And the whole time, I thought I was on Earth. Because I had never done anything on another planet. And GPS locations for me was Earthbound. So I was just reporting what I was seeing or perceiving. And I started picking up on a background history of why there were no people there now. And that there had been an event that was cosmic in size. And that they had built these pyramids as sort of a survival method, a way of staying alive until somebody could rescue them. Because it affected the climate in that area and everything else. And so things started not making any sense to me. And I was pretty tired by the time we got to the seventh location. So I said, I'm sorry, I can't do the seventh location. I just can't hold it any longer. And so they said, that's fine. So I came out. And I said, so where? Oh, I remember during the session, I said to Bob Monroe, I said, you know, the sun looks really weird. And he said, I don't care about the sun. Keep working on what you're seeing or perceiving at that location. So I kept doing that. So I came out of the booth, the deprivation chamber. And I said, so what's this target? And they said, well, we don't know. We just brought it in the envelope. And Bob Monroe has the envelope. So I said, let me see the envelope. So Bob took it out of his shirt and he handed it to me. Now, none of us knew what the target was until I opened that envelope. When I opened the envelope, pulled the paper out, it said Mars, 1 million BC. That really pissed me off. Because I don't like doing targets that I don't have ground truth for. I need ground truth. Because that's the only way I can perfect my skill set. Like vetification. Yeah. I need to be able to verify at least part or piece of it. So I got really angry. And I said, give me the card. So they gave me the card with the GPS locations. I kept the envelope in the paper. And I said, I'm keeping all this. And they said, why? And I said, because the next time I'm on the West Coast, I'm going to go to Jet Propulsion Laboratory, where they store all the films. And I'm going to get film confirmation for this. And they said, they'll never give it to you. And I said, no, they're going to give it to me. I was really angry. So next time I went to the West Coast to Stanford Research Institute, I took a day off and I went to the JPL. And I went to the counter where they sold all the negatives and pictures and everything that they take of space. Now, what most people don't know is every picture they take in space is done with tax money from us. So they can't classify those pictures. They have to release them. But you have to know what you're asking for. You can't go in and say, give me the one that has that pyramid. You'll say, which one? Okay. So I took the card and I walked up to the counter and I said to the guy, he said, can I help you? And I said, yeah. And I handed him the card with the GPS locations on it. I said, I'd like to see the four by, there's four by four negatives. They're about this size. I'd like to see the four by four mapping negatives for these locations. And on the negative, it's like 100 by 100 miles. But they have the tick marks on the outside for GPS. And so he took one look at the card. All he did was look at it. And he said, oh, that's the old city on Mars. And he pulled the drawer up and handed me a packet. So I came back with it. I took the negatives, went into town to a photography place. I gave them a copy of the GPSs and the negatives. And I said, blow these up the best you can. I want to know if what I described is in these pictures. And everything I described is on those negatives. And they blew them up the best they could so you could see. So that's all in my mind trick book. I was pretty sure that everything I said was correct. And I've not read the mind trick book yet. But are the pictures in there, are any of those negatives still available? Or what happened with the information like that? I have the negatives. But I've got to tell you, I've got 22 boxes, banker boxes of information. And I've been shipping stuff to Rice University because they want all my papers. So I haven't got a clue where they are right now. But the actual photographs from those negatives is in my book, my mind trick book. I'll definitely be checking that one out because I've not got to that yet. But also when you've mentioned Rice University for folks who are maybe unsure, that's Jeff Kripal. That's the Archives of the Impossible. I've posted Jeff on the podcast. Yeah, so that's good to know that those are in good hands. We'll say that much. Everything I've ever done in almost 50 years is going to be at Rice. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Excellent. And thinking on that then, because it's a fascinating case in everything you've said so far, Joe, it sounds like there are very few limitations, perhaps, on remote viewing. You've said before in interviews that time is largely immaterial. You can go deep into the past. You've remote viewed Mars 1 million B.C., but I've heard you talk about future targets being more limited. Is that right? Oh, yeah. It's much more difficult going into the future. And there's a, predominantly, there's a reason why. When you go into the past, everything that has occurred or did occur or would occur or might have occurred in the past, we understand the concepts of reality that make it so. In other words, the first flight by the Wright brothers or whoever did the first flight, it happened in the past. We know how planes fly in the air now, so it's not a big surprise to us to know that somebody built a plane and got off the ground first. That's not a big surprise. But where you get a surprise is in going to the future because the example I use is if in 1975 you were to target a specific room in Sylvania Corporation as a remote viewer, what you would probably get in targeting that room is a glass tube with this sort of cloud-like roiling energy in this tube. And there would be a pencil-thin beam of light, and you would see that light chewing its way through four inches of stainless steel. And on the other end, you would hear a thump, thump, thump, thump, thump. And you could provide all those details. But if somebody said, what is that? You couldn't tell them. You couldn't tell them anything about it. It's like, holy crap, they're using a light beam to chew through metal. How do they do that? I don't know. You know, the conceptualization for a high-energy pump laser doesn't yet exist. So what people would say to the remote viewer is, you're nuts. You're crazy. That's not possible. Okay? So going just a little bit into the future, maybe it's a month, you can be reporting on things in great detail. You have absolutely no understanding for. And I've done targets like that, and I've done a target like that in the out-of-body condition. And I will tell you, when you do a target like that, and you bring it back in such detail, where you can draw an engineering drawing, you know, front view, top view, side view, cut away all the parts, name as many of the parts as you can, and what their function is. And you get a feeling for what it might be, and you get a feeling for what it might be able to do, it's scary. When you do that, and you hand it to somebody in the DOD, they go, well, wait a minute, stop, don't go any further, because it's something they're working on. Okay, and you just accessed it in detail. That's scary. That really makes people worried, because I could build that in a garage. You understand? Yeah. No, they don't want that capability out there. They don't want anybody to have that capability out there. So how do they deal with that? Well, they release everything, supposedly, on remote viewing. Only they dump all the files on the floor, and they shuffle everything together in a big mess, and they release it out. And every Tom, Dick, and Harry that hears the word remote viewing suddenly goes, oh, that's easy. I just close my eyes and give them a drawing. And before you know it, it's not even valid anymore, because the protocol has disappeared into the woodwork. And maybe that's necessary. Maybe that should happen. You know, I'm a firm believer that there's a lot of things wrong with what we do. And because I believe that because we can do something doesn't necessarily mean we should do it. You know, I can tell you I got as far as I did in remote viewing because I have a solid foundation that I clearly understand my own personal morality and ethics. I will tell you, I will tell you, I will tell you, I will tell you, I will tell you, I will tell you it's a baseline I'm willing to die for. I don't think many other people know what they will or won't die for. But it's the very reason that I have a clear understanding for what I should or shouldn't be doing, that I can talk about things and there are things I won't do. So I think there are a lot of people out there that do things simply because they can. And that's creating a huge problem for humanity. We need to pay more attention to not doing some things just because we can. It just brings out too many problems because the first place somebody wants to go with something when it's got a lot of energy or a lot of power or a lot of capability is militarily. Yeah. We don't need more of that, believe me. I mean, we're getting into an area now where we're capable of fighting proxy wars using machines. And we're introducing AI. That's insanity. That's my personal belief. You can't teach morals and ethics to a machine. It just won't happen. Do you think, you've mentioned AI, Joe, do you think AI is going to change our relationship with consciousness? It'll change our relationship with pretty much everything. And in some ways that's okay. But in many ways, again, we'll be doing things maybe we shouldn't be. So we're sort of opening the door to a capability we don't know enough about to control it. And where you can't control things. Why do you play in that? You know, a good example, when they decide they're going to find the God particle and they built the CERN accelerator in France and Switzerland, that was a great idea. It was huge. Multi-billion-billion-dollar project, fastest accelerator on the planet. We're going to get to the basis of reality and existence. And what they also theoretically suggested it might open the door to a black hole that would consume the earth. But they did it anyway. How insane is that? You understand? It's that clip from the movie Oppenheimer when they're talking about the chance of it igniting the sky. And he says, almost zero. And they're like, almost zero? And he's like, yeah, almost zero. There's a chance. It's like, what's wrong with these people? They want to go down in history as the eradicator of the human species? I mean, no morality, no ethics, no contemplation for what might happen. But it just, it's crazy. One of the things I do like about remote viewing is you have a capacity for seeing ahead from a perspective that's different any other way. In other words, you can actually go ahead and report on the effects or results of something. You may not know exactly why they're happening, but you will certainly be able to report on them. Did you ever feel when remote viewing, you were being watched or something was viewing you, like you're tapped into a stream of information that something else was aware you were there? Oh, I know that. And it has to do, in fact, you'd be very interested in this because it had to do with me targeting a UFO. I don't generally target UFOs. And the reason I don't is because there's no ground truth. But I can't select my own target, so I wind up targeting them occasionally. Most of the time, they were machines, okay, to be honest. They're machines. Even if there were entities inside, they weren't what I would call intelligent entities. They were programmed entities. You know, the alien robots are live. We build robots out of machines. So a lot of the people that they say are obviously aliens of different descriptions, they're just simply grown in a lab and they're programmed to do certain things. It's the reason they have so much indifference towards us. They're robots, for any other word. But I got targeted on one UFO, one time, many years ago, maybe 20 years ago. And as soon as I opened to the target, I was recognized as penetrating an area I shouldn't have been in. I was able to capture maybe two glimpses perceptibly, and it shut down. And part of it worried me because whatever entity was in that UFO knew instantly that I was there from a mental standpoint. And so I was concerned that there might be retribution for that. But the retribution turned out to be interesting because every time I went back, and I did, I went back to that target a number of times with the idea that maybe I'll catch them off guard. No, you don't. Every time I went back to that target, I would get the same information. So for six months, I got the same thing over and over and over and over again. And what it was, I don't know if you remember the old Vietnam peace symbol. It was a line down like this and then two lines under it. Yeah. Okay, like an upside down Y. But it was in a circle. Well, that upside down Y is all I could get for six months. And I tried to figure out, what is it connected to? What does it mean? How is it used? Is it a symbol for something? Is it this, that? I couldn't get any further with it. And one day I had an epiphany. And you know what that is? That's the inside and outside corner of an empty box. As soon as I concluded that, it went away. And it was replaced by three boxes. Now I get three boxes for another six months, stacked all different ways. But they're all equal. They all look the same. They just are never perceived in the same positions. They move around. They change all the time. So I dealt with that for quite a while. I can't even remember how long. And then suddenly that changed because I had another epiphany. I remembered when I was a little kid, my parents gave me three blocks. And they were wrapped in plastic. I ended the plastic. It was three blocks. And it had letters. A, B, C, D, E, F, G on one. H, I, J, K on the other. And numbers on the other with the ends of the alphabet. So it was the alphabet and the numbers. And I was supposed to learn numbers and alphabet from it. Okay. As soon as I realized that, now I get multiple blocks. I'm getting sometimes seven, sometimes 11, sometimes three. Multiple blocks with a single symbol on it. Now, why is that happening? I think I'm supposed to try to figure out what the symbol represents. And that's what I'm working on now. But this is a slow process. This has been going on for five years. So what is that all about? I suspect, and this is, again, this is information that has come along with the processing that I do in my head. The information I'm getting is there's no way that whatever civilization that entity comes from, we're never going to know that entity. And here's the reason why. They're a half a million years ahead of us. So on one side, you've got this group of entities a half a million years ahead. And on this side, you've got a lot of immature people. That's us. We do things because we do things because we can't, not because we should. Okay. If those two groups ever came together, it would destroy both. There's just no way we'd ever get along. We'd want what they have, and they wouldn't want us to have it. Right there, eradicating conflict. They'd have to put us down. It just can't happen. I understand that. So I think they're viewing what they're doing with me as a way of maybe teaching. In all my thinking about the way the target changes or improves, I'm also getting a lot of feeling about why. You know, why not? Why yes? Why of, why because, all those kinds of things. And I don't like it because I feel like I'm being controlled. But I can understand why. Because we're a dangerous species. Yeah. Here's my fear. All, you know, less than 100 years ago in America, we were in covered wagons going west. You know, we didn't even have a country yet. And in truth, we were still dividing up into states and stuff, are settling in the west and creating new businesses and things. And we're still a growing, changing world because humans, hopefully, are improving and not dissolving. But however that's happening, the problem I'm having is that our greatest discoveries are accidental. So when we discovered the use of nuclear energy to produce a weapon, that's the first thing we did. We made a weapon out of it. Yeah. And we vaporized two cities full of people because we could. Now, the excuse is it prevented a lot of deaths continuing to the end of the war. That's bull. They could have stopped the war any other way. They didn't. They wanted to use those weapons. Okay. So what if the next thing is we discover, well, it's obvious that you're not going to go from star to star and meet other entities in a fire wagon. And that includes UFOs. I don't care if you're traveling at five times the speed of light. It's still going to take you 50 years to get the office of jury. So it's a waste of time. I think you get from star to star by folding out of this dimension and folding into that dimension. You don't even travel through space. You travel through other or whatever that is. Okay. What if we suddenly discover that capability? Should we or shouldn't we? If we decide we should, we have just become a threat to a half million year old advanced civilization because they know we're going to travel star to star. And the back room in that ship is going to have a nuke. You know that. So what will happen? We'll get knocked back to sticks and stones. We'll suffer a double massive flare out of the sun or whatever. We suffered a flood that killed most of the people on the planet at one time. Natural disaster is the way we're being controlled. And so if we become a threat, a serious threat, we're going to be back and living in caves and hunting animals again with spears. Because when you regress, it's all the way down to the flint. It doesn't stop halfway. Because you lose 20% of your capability, you can't build a factory anymore. You understand? So I think we need to pay attention to our morals and our ethics as an answer to our introduction to a race or species of entities that's a half million years ahead of us. And that's a wise move where wanting to meet and try to get something from them is not a wise move. And so that's just my personal opinion. It could be wrong, but I sure wouldn't want to be thought of as a threat to those entities, whoever they are. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. I can understand that. And listen, I want to ask, we're going to get to some listener questions just to finish off. Sure. You've answered so many already in the body of the interview. But I want to know, how closely do you follow modern ufology and the UFO topic and what's happened in the last few years with Congress and David Grush and those folks coming forward? I follow it pretty closely. Ryan Wood and his father, I've known them forever. And, uh, in fact, I, I went to a couple, uh, uh, possible crash sites with Ryan back many years ago. Uh, and it was, it was clear that most of them were other things, but there was one site we went to where it was obvious to me it had been a UFO crash and somebody had come and gotten it. Uh, there were still marks in the desert floor from the big, heavy equipment that came and pulled it away. Uh, so I, I know that stuff's out there, but, uh, and I know they have this stuff and they've probably been working away on it, but I suspect it's going to take another couple hundred years to understand it. Um, but you know, I kind of follow along with it. Uh, what I, what I become concerned about is the. The leaps of judgment that many make, uh, I don't like some of the people in the UFO community that try to out people because I think they're doing it in a nefarious way, in a bad way. Uh, there probably are people in government that know more, but I don't think being hostile towards them and trying to out them in some way to force them to get information out. Uh, is, is a wise thing to do. Uh, I think in the long run, what they would probably do before giving it up is destroy it. Uh, just my view. Uh, I, I agree, I agree, Joe. I don't think that the gatekeepers and the powers that be are sitting on social media, scrolling through X and Facebook thinking, oh, well, some of these folks want us to give them all the information. Should we do it? They don't care. And I think there has to, these things have to be done the right way. And I think there are some good people trying to work on this in various different ways. And, and, and what, what my preference would be is if they were to come and allow some people with obvious, with an obvious bent towards being more ethically inclined to bring them in on it and help make those decisions on what should be released and what shouldn't be. I, I, I don't think governments are smart enough to, to do that. I think everything is, is geared towards weaponry, towards modernizing armies and, and air forces and that sort of thing, because that's where the money is. And, and, and the, the world right now is, is, is, is a swamp of avarice and greed and whatnot. That's clear. Uh, when 40%, 40 to 60% of almost any country on the planet is fighting to live and it's got a half percent at the top that owns or controls more than half of its GNP. There's something wrong with that picture. Yeah. Um, it, it just isn't proper. Uh, anyway, you know, that's politics, but politics are dangerous. Yes. I, I'm very apolitical and people tell me I'm, I'm not, but I, I genuinely am. And I have, I know I am because folks on the right and left of politics both tell me a lot of different stuff. I get emails from all over folks in the United States, folks from Europe, folks from the UK. I just, no matter who you vote for, the government gets in and that's what happens. So, yeah. I always, I always felt, you know, I did 20 years in the army, most of it overseas, uh, doing defensive stuff against terrorism and, and that sort of thing. And so, uh, I always felt like my job was to defend people's rights to be left or right or centrist or whatever. And so many times I didn't even vote because I felt like it was a betrayal of that neutrality, uh, because I was overseas doing the good fight. What disturbs me now is that people want to force me into some framework and they don't understand me at all if they think that way, because I will support what I think is just. And I want what I think isn't just, so, you know, I reserve the right to do that. And, and, uh, that's, that's all my boundaries. As long as I control my own boundaries, I don't have any problem. And rightly so. And listen, Joe, I had so many questions, like I say, from people, what I've done folks. Normally I read your name out and I go through the question, but Joe had easily over a hundred questions. So what I've done is I've gone through, I've gone through them all multiple times and I've tried to amalgamate the questions. I've reworded them essentially, Joe, and tried to group them in. The chances are folks, if you've asked a question, you've heard a variation of the answer or it's been asked directly. So there we go. But listen, let's fly through these kind of, I've got like six or seven here, Joe, to finish off with. First off, were you ever given targets that feel ethically questionable? Oh yeah. And, uh, I've deliberately failed on that. I, I did a target on national television, 31 million viewers in Japan. And I was asked to describe where a woman on a panel, they pulled out, they pulled her up on the stage and said, can you tell us where she was at eight o'clock on last Saturday? And I said, sure. And when I said, sure, I felt a blast of fear coming out of her. So I went ahead and did the remote viewing and for some ugly reason it failed. And, uh, I had to turn to the audience and bow and say, I apologize. It's all on me. I thought I could do it. I couldn't do it this time. And then later when the program was taped and done and I was in the green room, did she came and visited me and thanked me profusely. She said, I knew you knew where I was. And, and here's the problem because of her job, she was 23 years old because of her job. If I had said in detail where she was and what she was doing, there was nothing wrong with it, except that it would have ruined her career right on the spot. Okay. She wasn't doing anything wrong. She was doing exactly what any mother would do. And the problem was she wasn't married. So it would have killed her career right on the spot. And, and I chose to, to not be successful. I've done that a number of times and I'll just take the heat for it. I don't care. I will just add you, I've not asked you on this episode, but I do love the, the, the time you went on Japanese TV. I think one of your first ever appearances and you, I was telling someone this in the gym earlier today and you were on, it was like a show where I was a panelist. Skeptics, a panel of believers. Yeah. Right. Right. And yeah, you had to essentially remote view where someone had gone in a bullet train could have been anywhere. And you described to the woman standing in water, there was fake trees, a fake background. Yeah. And they laughed at you because in Japan, nothing inside would be fake. Yeah. We don't do that. And yeah, she was essentially standing in like a pond with like a kid's little house behind her and, and you were right, weren't you? Yeah. They actually, well, while she was talking to the camera in the background, they overlaid my drawing of the tea house over the tea house, the fake tea house. And it was identical. And what, so what I wasn't sure of, you said, and when I saw you talking about that a couple of times, the, you know, the, the head of the university of Tokyo for physics or something. The head, the head of the physics department, the university of Tokyo, he made a very impassioned speech about three minutes speech before we started the program. And what he said was, and it was film. And what he said was, if I can't show you the trick that he uses, I'll resign my position as the head of the physics department at Tokyo university. And in fact, he came in three days in a row afterwards and went through frame by frame, by frame, couldn't find where I was, slipped the answer or knew the answer or any of that. And, uh, so I asked the studio, I said, did he resign? And they said, no. And I said, what happens if he doesn't? And they said, he'll never appear on channel four in Tokyo again. So. I do. I do love that story. I shared that today in the gym with a few people and they liked that. Um, other question for you was besides Mars and the submarine case, both of which you've shared on this show, what was the most surprising or strange operational target you were given? I think the strangest target was a, it was a Russian spy that they caught in another country and the, that particular country brought him to America and they wanted to know some very specific things about him. And, and I answered all their questions and then later they found out, uh, they found out that, uh, he was also gay and they said that would have been important because we could have used that as leverage. And I said, I said, I don't, because I don't, because I know everything about somebody, maybe, why would I give you the stuff you don't need? You know, in other words, it, this, this was a specific operation in a certain way for a certain reason. And I'm not going to give you all that extraneous stuff to go back and use it to blackmail or something. No, that's not what it's about. And in the first, the very first target I had that was an American citizen, it was brought in by an agency. And, and I think, uh, Hartley Trent did the same thing when they took us in the room, do the remote viewing and we started remote viewing. The first thing I did is I stopped and I said, I need to know something first. And they said, what's that? I said, is there a warrant issued by a judge? Because in America, you can't target a U S citizen without a warrant. And when I asked that, the person got really upset and said, Hey, nobody's going to know. And I said, no, you're wrong. I will. Yeah. You know, find a warrant and I'll give you what you want, you know, but, uh, that's occurred actually, actually on some news programs where in foreign countries where I've been asked to, to just, to disclose information on someone. It happened in Budapest, Hungary. And I gave them a lecture on personal privacy. And when I went back three months later to visit the, uh, the psychologist that was working with us, uh, I came out of, uh, customs and the professor came over and gave me a big hug. And he said, I'm so glad to see you got through customs. I said, well, why wouldn't I? And he said, because if you had described that guy on the national news program, that, that was to support, uh, a, uh, group of five people who were out to assassinate the new president. Uh, that was the new president. And if I told him where he was and what he was doing, he might've hit them right there. I would never get out of jail at Budapest, Hungary. Wow. So first thing I always do is ask, should I, or shouldn't I? Well, moving back into UFOs, uh, you were asked by a lot of folks around this. Were you ever tasked with viewing Russian or Chinese UFO related programs? No, I don't remember ever being, Oh, I take that back one time. I was asked about the Chinese program and, uh, but the information that came out of it was negligible. I don't think they really had a much of a program. Um, I think. Or is that difficult for you to look at? Because again, it's the verification aspect of it, of what does a flying saucer look like? Or what does a craft or a being look like? Yeah. But, well, you can get a really good description of the craft, but the, the, where the problem comes in is what are they doing with it? And there's a cultural difference there. And for the, the differences with the Chinese and anybody else, it's completely different. Because they look at, they look at their very, they look at their professors or researchers and everything differently than we do. If they have snow white hair and they're in their, they're in their eighties, they make no mistakes. Okay. So anything they say is accepted as truth. In America, that would never happen. You know, we'd question anybody for their background, their intelligence, how they were trained, all those sorts of things. If they're a researcher, uh, Chinese don't do that. Uh, everything's perfect for a man over 80 with snow white hair. He can decide what's real or not real and they'll buy it. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you're drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business. Whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. So, you know. Fair enough. How good is that? Yeah, yeah. No, no, that's fair. And you were asked about reviewing, remote viewing, famous UFO incidents. For example, Roswell, did you ever review anything like that? Yeah, I have done that for three crash sites. One crash site, it turned out, was a bomber that came down. It was treated just like a UFO collection. They raked the ground. They put everything in sacks, loaded it all on low boys, every piece of wreckage, everything. The reason why, it was in 1940, just before our introduction into the Second World War, and it was carrying one of the two prototype Norden bomb sites. That's for bombing from high altitude at night. It made it more accurate. They did not want one piece of that bomb site getting in anybody's hands. So, it was all treated, identical to how you would collect a UFO. Sure. That's the one that sticks out in my mind the most. But there were two others. One, we never were able to confirm or deny anything about it. But another was one we felt was truly a UFO site. What was interesting about that is there was some material collected from it, and we actually went back to the place where they stored it and were able to access the safe. And it was, the logbook was there where they logged in, but it was no longer in the safe. So, we were unable to obtain it. And have you ever encountered alternate timelines or dimensions in your work? I don't believe in them. I already believe that every human being on this planet is in a world of their own. And the reason I say that is you're always with different people. And when you go and do something where you're alone, and you come back, and you're with people you know, and they say, what did you do yesterday? You can tell them, but they can never know that for sure. They have to take your word for it, which means you're in a different bubble of the world than they are. So, our worlds are all different. And how we express them comes out in our interaction with one another. It's why it's important that we don't shut down when we meet somebody that's new or somebody different. They have information that could be of value to us always. So, you want to make friends with everybody you meet. Even people you don't like, you can learn from. You learn from your enemies. Some of it's not good. But you may be making assumptions that are wrong. And that's why they remain your enemy. Where, in fact, you may find common ground. And it makes the enemy idea go away. You know, it's just, I've always felt every human being is in a different world than mine. And I can learn something from them. And so, I've always wanted to be as open as possible with people. So, I don't want to deny anybody or condemn them automatically. I mean, there are bad people in the world. I've met evil people. And I won't have anything to do with them. But I have to meet them and really come to know that first. In your near-death experience, you described distressed souls in a tunnel. What did they look like? And what did that experience mean to you? When I had that experience, I was DOA 38 minutes. I had no breathing and no heartbeat. Now, I don't believe that. I think maybe I had a heartbeat every six minutes. Maybe I took a shallow breath every now and then. But that's immaterial. I was out of body the whole time watching the entire event. So, when I eventually was in the emergency room, watching them and cutting the clothing off me, I felt heat on the back of my neck. And I thought it was one of those bright lights in the ceiling. So, I turned around to see if I was close to one. And I was enveloped in a more intense light, white light. It was ten times more intense. But it didn't bother me because I had no longer had my eyes. I figured I was just in a pure form there. I know my body wasn't there. I was just one with this light. And my perception was that it was God. I got in an argument with the voice and the light because the voice said, you can't be here. You have to go back. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to go anywhere. Because it was so comfortable. And then I woke up. I sat up and I was covered with a sheet. I had tubes all in me. And so, I kept telling people, God's a white light. You can't cease to exist. You come with you. You are gifted with all the knowledge of all the effects you've had on everybody you've ever interacted with. And then some. And it sort of paints you with a brush and colors that says, this is what I am. That's heaven and hell, by the way. You can either be painted very, very dark or you can be painted very, very bright. And that depicts how you're received by others in that state. But I started telling people that. And the military put me in a rest home for two weeks because they thought I had serious brain damage. So I wouldn't stop talking about it. And the third psychiatrist I was with said, you have to act normal or you're not going to leave here. So I started acting normal. And I got reassigned to the different unit. But they let everybody think I was dead. Anyway, I matured a lot. But for six months afterwards, I hated being here because this is so primitive. I thought of about 30 ways of taking my own life. I was seriously contemplating that. And one night I got pulled back out of body, back into that light. And some entity, and I don't think it's God now, but it was a, it may have been a reflection of me. I don't know. But I got speed slapped and told, look, if you know what's going to happen when you die, why don't you pay more attention to being here? Do something right. And so I've been trying to do what I can here. And what's interesting about that is I've had like three or four near death experiences where I've come so close. And right at the last second, it gets reversed. And it's like, you still aren't done. Go back. You still aren't done. Go back. And I've had MRSA twice in the hospital after surgeries. The second time I had 108 temperature, 107 temperature. I almost died. They fought 33 hours to keep me alive. I was ready to go. I didn't go. It's like every time I think it's going to happen, I'm sent back. So I don't know if I'm doing something right or I'm doing something wrong. Depends on your viewpoint on where you want to be. But, you know, it, I do know that everybody has an opportunity to do good and good's relative. Good for how you view it. You got to do what you perceive as the right thing and not do something just simply because you want it. I don't, what's interesting is I lack for nothing. I have anything I want when I need it and my wife is cared for and, you know, I'm comfortable and I don't need a lot. But, you know, I'm enjoying this place now. A lot of folks asked you once from, you've remote viewed your own death. And a lot of folks were asking, why did you do that? And has it changed the way you live? It's changed it greatly. I haven't, I don't think it's possible to remote view death itself. There's a gate there. You can't get past it. But, um, I used to make fun of mediums, you know, I used to walk in the office sometimes and pick a stapler up and go, oh, oh, I'm getting a message from the dead. You know, the guy who made this stapler, you know, I made fun of mediums because I didn't believe in it. And then I was working a problem where, uh, an undercover agent had disappeared and they didn't know why. And I had discovered that he drove off the road and wrecked his car and died. And they said, how do you know he's dead? And I said, cause he's floating horizontally in front of me with his hands crossed on his chest and his eyes are closed and he's drifting away. And they said, the monitor said, oh, this is where we can find out about death, right? So he says, following. And I said, okay. And I'm trying to follow him. I said, I can't get closer to him. He keeps getting further away. And he says, follow him anyway. You're a remote viewer. You can do anything. And I said, I can't get any, he kept yelling at me. And I said, look, there's this, this, these gauze like things coming down. It's making me more difficult to even see him. I can't get through them. And he said, well, do it anyway. And I said, look, I can't go beyond the veils. And as soon as I said it, I went, I just got tape being a medium. Yeah. So I, I changed my whole attitude. I went to a place in New York where they have mediums and I spent three or four days there with them. And then I went down to Florida to where they have them down in Florida. And I spent two or three days down there and I met these mediums and they're truly good people. They're honest people. They're actually helping. Now, some of them aren't as gifted as others. Like some remote viewers aren't as gifted as other remote viewers, but they're trying. And so I, I don't bad mouth mediums anymore. I know exactly what they're doing and I think they're doing a good work. So do we know about that? Final question. No. Final question, Joe, because you've been with me in such a long time and you've been so good in this interview. I really appreciate it. And I'm sure folks have loved it. Looking back over your life and your career now, what do we still most misunderstand about consciousness or whatever that might be? About consciousness? You have to remember, you've got to remember this, okay? Everything we think is real, isn't. Our entire consciousness, even the part that's in our head, is locked inside a bone box. The only way we know anything is through the sensing devices that we have. Ears, the smeller, the eyes, skin. There's all kinds of sensing devices we have for interpreting our environment. What we are actually walking around in is an energy field, a massive energy field filled with all kinds of different energies. And they all represent something. And these sensors tell us that we're actually in a world, okay? But that world is our creation. No two people on the planet create the same world. It's a mistake to make the assumption that we all are talking about the same thing. We're not. We're talking about our personal perceptions. So to label people because they don't think like you is wrong. To label somebody because they do think like you is wrong. We can learn from everybody. And we shouldn't condemn anyone because we don't like how they perceive or how they present. And there's a reason for that. We need to know the reason. We don't need to condemn them. And so, you know, people are flawed. We're all flawed because we have to deal with reality through a sensing system that's dysfunctional. The one thing we have an advantage on is that all of our mind is not here. All of our mind is. It's the reason why this whole energy field exists. I think we have an agreement that it's all here because it's a place we can come and experience and do things that teach us something about who and what we are. And in terms of knowing God, I think God is just as blind as we are. I think God is a neutral creation that has no understanding for what it is. And we are like the fingers. We're the examples or the experiment that goes out and discovers and learns and understands what good and evil is to help God understand what God is. In other words, we're all part of the creator. And if we're all part of the creator, then we have a potential to be extraordinarily good and not evil. So I just prefer to be extraordinarily as good as I can be. Doesn't mean I don't make mistakes. I really do. I screw up big time sometimes. I'd pay for that. But, you know, I've just become a lot more open, I think, understanding that I'm different like everybody else is. That's all for this episode of That UFO Podcast. Thank you so much for listening and watching. If you enjoyed the show, please follow, subscribe, and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps others find the show. If you're watching on YouTube, hit like, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you don't miss future episodes. You can also support the show directly and get early access, add free episodes, and bonus content on Patreon, or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube memberships. All the links are over at thatufopodcast.com or in the show description below, along with merchandise and more. Don't forget, you can also pick up a copy of my book, Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects, available now in all good bookstores and through online retailers, including Amazon. Big thank you again to all of you for listening and tuning in. Until next time, keep looking up. You never know what you might see. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.