Vandenberg UFOs, Congressional Intimidation & What Comes Next – Jeff Nuccetelli

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Intuit TurboTax. See guarantee details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees. Only available with TurboTax experts. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. It's tax time, y'all. If you want to file free, this next one's for you. Now Taxes is so free. Love that jam. Up next, commercials. Intuit TurboTax free edition. See if you qualify at TurboTax.com slash free. No schedules except for earned income tax credit, child tax credit, student loan interest, and Schedule 1A. Hi everyone, and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. My name is Andy, and I am joined today by a returning guest. He is a former Air Force security officer who was part of an incredible UFO event at Vandenberg Air Force Base in 2004. And one of the stars of the most recent congressional UAP hearings. And also one of the few guests I've ever met now face-to-face after the Salsa Symposium in Italy back in October 2025. Welcome back to the podcast, Jeff Nusitelli. Jeff, welcome, mate. Thank you, man. It's good to see you. Good to see you again. And I mentioned that on the news update I've just done, that you are genuinely one of the first ever guests I've met in person. And it's good to have you back on afterwards. You can confirm I am a real person. Because you are. I am not this fat in real life. The camera adds on £10. But, no, it was obviously great to meet you. Stunning scenery, stunning place, wasn't it, at the Salsa Symposium. It seems like a lifetime ago. But, yeah, and a lot has happened since then as well. And we're getting into a December that maybe a lot of folks didn't expect to be as busy or news-heavy as it's turning out to be with a lot kind of going on. But, first off, Jeff, if people want to know all about your background in an immense detail and the Vandenberg Air Force Base incident, I would always suggest go back and check out our first interview or any number of interviews you've done on that incident. But for those who maybe need a quick recap, do you want to take it away, Jeff, as to who is Jeff Nusitelli, what happened at Vandenberg, and we'll get up to speed. Yeah, sure. So, yeah, I was active duty Air Force military police. I did 16 years on active duty, a pretty active career. And I was stationed at Vandenberg in 2003 during the incursions, the UFO incursions. So that started off briefly with the Vandenberg Red Square event that was covered in the first congressional hearing with David Grush and others. That was brought up by Representative Luna. She was aware of the case. I had been working with Congress and Aero prior to that hearing, so they had already had the documentation and were aware of the details. And then we had a number of other spectacular UFO encounters during that time frame. We had an object come and land on the flight line, witnessed by my good friend Grant Best, and on and on. So we had all these UFO incursions. They were checking out the technology we were launching from Vandenberg, which was NRO, National Reconnaissance Office, technology, next generation tech that was going to give us dominance in air and space for the next 20, 30 years. And these UFOs would come and they would inspect or do something to launch the rockets, and then they would fly off. So those encounters went on from 2003 to 2005, then I had my own spectacular encounter at Vandenberg where a large orb came down from space, basically, and hovered 200 feet over my home with other witnesses. And every one of these cases was investigated, seen by multiple on-duty personnel, and up-channeled and reported. So each one of these incidents were documented and investigated. So that's what brought me here. Awesome. And since then, things have kind of kicked off for you in the sense you've got really involved in the topic. In a way, I think a lot of your colleagues perhaps don't want to for obvious reasons. There's so much stigma still involved in this topic. There's a lot of risk involved in this. We had those discussions at SAWL, and I don't think it's, you know, giving away any secrets that there's an intimidation goes on in the background. There's a knock-on effect for people's families that happen, people's jobs, careers, livelihoods. People get messed with, and we hear that in so many different ways to different extremes. But some people like yourself can take that step forward. They can come out the shadows, and they say, no, enough's enough. Something has to be done here. And there's now a good, strong core of people like yourself who are looking to do that. So obviously that builds to the hearings. I've not had you on since then. Back in September now? September, is that right? Yeah. Tell us about the build-up to that, being called to testify. Were you really comfortable to do that? Was there ever any doubts? Yeah. I had doubts coming forward initially back in 2023. But after I made the decision to do it, I'm like I'm all in because I went out publicly on the Merge podcast. And that was really one of the most difficult things I've ever done. That was kind of coming out of the closet, right? So after that, initially, that was probably the most nervous I had ever been in my life was when I initially came out and disclosed to the whole world that I'd seen these objects. And that was difficult because my career has been very reputationally based. You know, I worked in law enforcement. I was a hostage negotiator involved in tactical operations. So these are high-stress, high-trust operations. And then, you know, I worked for the DOJ, the Department of Justice. So, you know, my career is very reputationally based. You know, I handled hundreds of millions of dollars for the federal government, worked on high-profile trials like the El Chapo trial, things like that. So it took a lot for me to come out. But after I did, I'm like, you know, I'm already in the pool, so I might as well swim. And then, yeah, leading up to the hearing, I had always wanted to have the opportunity to share the information I had about these incursions with the public. So I really wanted to testify in the first hearing. That didn't happen. And then I had let, you know, Congress know that I am willing and able to testify. But it came to a certain point where, you know, I just had to kind of surrender and be like, you know, this is beyond my control. I put my name in the pool. And then, you know, leading up to that hearing, I got the phone call. And they said, you know, we're really interested. Congress is very interested in your case. And we'd like you to testify. And so that was kind of a dream come true. But what came with that was a lot of stress, pressure. There was an active intimidation campaign unfolding in real time against me and some of the other witnesses that testified. It got actually pretty scary sometimes with the surveillance and the intimidation tactics. You know, some people might remember that someone pulled a gun on David Grush prior to the hearing. So there was a lot boiling in the background that was quite disconcerting. But, yeah, we all powered through that. We came together as a team. And we think the hearing was powerful. And it really moved the needle, you know, behind the scenes in Congress, in the intelligence community, and in the Senate. We woke people up. They were able to see behind the scenes some of the information that we provided. Some of that is classified. Some is not. And in my opinion, this topic is the most important topic in the federal government behind the scenes. And the reason for that is because some of these congressmen and women have seen evidence, pictures, videos, documentation of these objects, these craft, this phenomenon. They know it's real, and they're very concerned about, you know, what is it, what is it doing, how is it interacting, you know, with humanity. And so the hearing moved the needle in a number of ways. And I think people will start seeing that play out in the news cycle over the next year. Just before we touch on the hearing a little bit more, in terms of that intimidation cycle that's been going on, we know there's been all kinds of stuff now. You mentioned Grush with the whole gun being pulled on him. We know journalists had his medical records leaked to him. We hear how often FOIA requests can be denied. They can take years to come through. Yet a journalist managed to find David Grush's medical records, I think, within 24 hours, which is unbelievable for that to happen. But we all know exactly what's happened in that circumstance, don't we? We don't have to say it. What was it you specifically were experiencing when it comes to these kind of intimidations and instances? I don't want to get too specific, but I can speak in generality. So intense digital surveillance, having phone calls interrupted, having people try to install programs on your computer, things like that, having family members approached in public. I've been approached in public with other UFO, you could say whistleblowers or witnesses. So they let you know that you're under surveillance, that you're being watched, that everything you say, everything you type, every email, every text message is being read, that you have no privacy. We had people come to the house, things like that. So, you know, it gets very deep and dark. And then with some of the other, I'm not a whistleblower per se. I'm a witness. Whistleblowers have a classification under the Office of Special Counsel within the Department of Justice. You know, they're assigned a whistleblower case number and a case. I am not that. But some of the friends I have that are whistleblowers had much worse intimidation, you know, just really terrifying things. So that's what we have to deal with leading up to the hearing and afterward. Yeah, I think that whistleblower term, it gets thrown about and including by people like myself. But like you say, there is a difference. I think it's just people say whistleblower in terms now of you've had involvement with the UFO topic in an official capacity or you were in the military or the government. You're a whistleblower because you're now speaking about it. But technically, that's not correct. Like you say, you can be a witness or are making statements, folks. So it's good to clear that stuff up. But the hearing itself, like you say, we had a needle moved and not to go back over too much old ground here, but it's the first time getting to speak to yourself about it, Jeff, on the podcast. You had the video that came out and we spoke about that personally, didn't we, at the Sol Symposium. And we had the testimony that was delivered by yourself, by Chief Alexandro Wiggins, by George Knapp, and also by Dylan Borland. There we go. Yep. Try to remember. So many hearings now. We've been very, very spoiled. For me, it's been after the Grush hearing, which really made waves internationally. I think it's been the best of the hearings. What I'm really disappointed about is I think it's difficult to measure the impact publicly because I think it was within 24 hours the Charlie Kirk assassination happened. And that just, that was the new cycle across the world, wasn't it? So there's that element of it, which we will never know what could have been in terms of that. But for you personally, I'd love to know when the hearing finishes, those moments, because obviously you're watching it on TV or YouTube, however you consume your media, and it finishes and everyone stands up and you all have a chat and the camera fades to black. What happens in that immediate aftermath? Because you don't fade to black. You then walk out that room. Is it conversations? Are you in corridors? Are people approaching you? What goes on? So the way we handled it is as soon as it was over, we, me and the other guys, we all went and sort of sequestered in a spot. We didn't want to be bombarded with media and questions and things. So we kind of retreated to a quiet place, let things calm down. And then we just spent the rest of the day and the evening together, me and all the other guys and their wives and families. And we just sort of, you know, enjoyed the afterglow. It was really like an out-of-body experience. It was surreal and powerful and emotional, you know, the entire leading up to it and then, you know, sitting there. It was because when you know what Dylan has been through and Matthew Brown, you know, who was with us behind us. Yeah. And you know what they've been through. It's powerfully emotional. It's hard, you know, to keep yourself together. And then afterward, it was this huge, like, release. Um, and we just felt like joy and we were so grateful for the opportunity. And then we finally got to go out and speak our truth to the public under oath. You know, that was important. So we just enjoyed the afterglow and spent a lot of time just bonding and hanging out and feeling good and, uh, you know, feeling very proud of what we had done. Um, and, uh, that's, that's how we, we went back to the hotel, cracked a couple of beers, shook off all that, that tension and stress. And we just had a great day together, you know? Yeah. And for you personally, do you start then getting messages from colleagues, people you've not heard from for some time? And, and what's the tone and the vibe amongst folks like yourself who haven't come forward? Do you start to get the sense of, I wish I'd done that. Well done, Jeff, but you know, maybe it's me next time. Or do you see that momentum building? Yeah. After, after the hearing, there was a flood that came to me and some of my other friends from people that were at Vanderbilt during that timeframe. And, uh, it was just an outpouring of support and validation. Like I got so many messages like, dude, I saw it too, or different, uh, events that I, I am aware of, but I didn't personally, you know, witness or wasn't involved in. So it was a flood of support and validation and people saying, we saw it too. We know you're not lying. And that just, you know, made me feel amazing because some of these people I knew, some of these people I didn't know, and it was just a flood of support and validation. So I'm hoping, um, some of those people will come out publicly. Some of them initially, you know, from, from the, the energy of the hearing, they were like, oh, you know, I'm ready. I, I want to share with the public too. But then, you know, after the, after glow, they reached out and they're like, you know, I don't know if I want to do that. Um, and, um, and that's a good thing because coming out, you know, once you've come out, there's no kind of reining it back in, you know, you're, you're out in UFO world, it's, you know, big foot and time travel and, and the whole mixed bag. Right. So you have to be very careful about putting yourself into that. And the repercussions, you know, because a lot of these people, professionals, they have clearances, you know, reputationally based, you know, careers and, um, you know, all kinds, you know, their, their families might not believe or agree in this stuff. So people really need to think deeply, like, what is your motivation for coming out? What's your, your goal? Um, you don't just want to jump out and tell your story and overshare and kind of throw your life, you know, it's in, in, into, you know, chaos. Right. Yeah. So a lot of support, a lot of information, and I'm hoping people will carefully walk out their stories and, and share. And you say there's no walking back, but Marco Rubio on the age of disclosure documentary, which we're going to get to, um, he made some big statements around his thoughts, feelings, opinions on, on the UEP topic on, on things. But the documentary was filmed over what, three years, I think they've mentioned Dan Farah said. So it's not like they recorded this earlier this year and put it all out at quick, quick time. Since then, Marco Rubio has gone up in the world and he is, he is now more or less every time you see president Donald Trump, Marco Rubio isn't far behind. I imagine Marco Rubio has, has bigger ideas than where he is now still that may be running for president himself. One day, it seems he has taken a slight step back from the statements he made in the documentary to now in a recent interview, just in the last week saying, well, you know, it's really interesting. I'm paraphrasing here, folks, but you know, I was just quoting a lot of things I'd heard. And for a lot of people, that's not quite true, but I imagine understandable. How do you feel about that when you see someone like a Rubio coming forward and, and maybe taking a little bit more of a, well, look, I wasn't saying we've got aliens here. Yeah. Yeah. I think he needs to do that. I did watch that interview. I initially had seen it on Twitter and they're like, oh, you know, walks back things. But when I watched it, it didn't seem like he was walking anything back. Really? He, he said, he, he's not, I forget the exact language, but he said, he's not like trying to, you know, discredit any of the, any of the statements he made. What he was saying was he was reiterating things that he had heard from these admirals, generals, intel community, you know, people and pilots. Yeah. So the, the sense I took from it was, um, he hadn't, he, he, what he was trying to say was I haven't seen these non-human, you know, uh, craft myself. I haven't seen the bodies. I, I, I haven't proved that there's a reverse engineering program that I'm aware of, but I've heard enough information to where I'm comfortable speaking about it to the public. So that's kind of how I took it, you know, that, um, he hasn't, that's not unfair. Yeah. Yeah. That's not unfair, is it? That's, uh, and you get a guy in that position who may be looking down the line. And again, Marco Rubio will have a team of people around him. All these folks will in those various positions. And I don't doubt he gets some advice in terms of what to say directions. Lou Elizondo, I'll ask you a question on that in just a moment. Mentioned on with Ross Coulthart. But he understands that Rubio, even if he did have a real strong inkling to push this whole disclosure movement forward, he can't break ranks away from the administration and their plan and their direction, because that's going off on a whole other tangent that they might be like, whoa, you know, this is a team effort. What are you doing over there chatting about this UFO thing? Let's get to there when the time comes. And speaking about Lou Elizondo, he was on with Ross Coulthart and he said he is heartened by what's happening behind closed doors. And he can't speak about that. And I'm sure you have limitations too, Jeff, but what sort of things, and I think this is what kind of people want to know and in a sense need or deserve to know what is now happening behind the scenes that people can be hopeful going into 2026 progress in this, this topic is going to happen. So I think the main, the main thing, David Grush being in the mix now is a huge deal, right? So David Grush, you know, is the right man for the job to go in and try to get the information that the congressmen and women need and help them, the congress people, navigate the intelligence community, right? The labyrinth that they have to navigate to even get the right clearance, the right access to see the information that David is talking about, right? To talk to the people, the 40 whistleblowers that, that David Grush interviewed and recorded and submitted to the inspector general. So he's trying to, to navigate that labyrinth. And from what I understand that there's enough, there, there are allies now in the intelligence community, unrelated to David Grush, who have been inspired by the hearings, by the actions of Congress and the Senate. They know this phenomenon is real and they are doing what they can within their, their power in the intelligence community to help, help the disclosure process, to help Congress get in touch with the firsthand witnesses, to, to navigate that labyrinth, to get to the documentation, information, videos that they need to see and get the whole process really like kind of codified. Because right now Congress is, is trying to put together a puzzle and they're not allowed to have all the pieces, right? And that's what I think is happening behind the scenes. We have allies in DOD, the intelligence communities that are helping Congress put the puzzle together. And that's going to play out over the next year, I think. So have you seen the Avengers? I take it. Yeah. Most folks have. Yeah. And that, that scene in, um, in infinity war or end game, can't remember spoilers folks, but it's been a while, uh, where they've got the infinity gauntlet off of Thanos and Spider-Man and Captain Marvel are trying to get it across to a certain point and they're being attacked by all sides. And that's what it's a bit like for David Grush, where he's got the infinity gauntlet and he's trying to run with it. And you guys are all on the sides trying to protect him, trying to move things forward. But is David Grush not painting a huge bullseye on his back? If he didn't have one already from folks in legacy programs and gatekeepers who are all trying to get at him as he tries to reach an end point. Absolutely. I mean, the deeper you go, the more dangerous the labyrinth, right? There's a dragon deep down somewhere at the bottom level. So, yeah. How, let me just ask Jeff, sorry, how do you then really protect him? Cause I think most folks, and I hate to get sinister with it, would, um, would look at, you know, they're not just going to bump someone off and I have to be careful of terminology because algorithms and stuff. They're not just going to bump someone off in broad daylight because, you know, that would be too obvious. But then again, any number of broad daylight assassinations and, you know, things have happened over the last couple of years, all kinds of conspiracy theories come out about them. And a lot of the public tend to just go, yeah, deep state got them. Yeah. And it's just accepted. So for, for a David Grush and with the best will in the world, I wish him all the health and safety with all of you guys and girls involved, but it's so dangerous. What is stopping one of these legacy programs or gatekeepers literally pulling the trigger? Yeah. Well, it's a good question. And, and, you know, it could be as simple as they don't want to martyr him. So the difference between like, let's say, you know, we had a bunch of Lockheed Martin whistleblowers that died unexpectedly during their trial. Right. And was that the aircraft thing? And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So two of their, you know, key witnesses got ill and died in the middle of it. And like you said, the public is like up deep state gun, they poisoned them or whatever. And then they go about their business. But what is different with people like David Grush, he has a community that loves and admires and supports him where those Lockheed Martin contractors, you know, were just on their own. Right. So that could be the thing preventing, you know, the worst thing happening. So what the game plan seems to be in UFO world is reputation destruction. Yeah. That's their game plan. They don't need to kill me or anybody. That would just martyr us in some circles. It's just keep them sick, unemployed, broke, desperate, attack their credibility, attack their, you know, any, any angle you can go, you know, they've got PTSD. They had, you know, problems with alcohol 15 years ago and try to discredit, you know, go after the person and try to discredit the entire movement by affiliation. I think that's the game plan. So, you know, that's the thing. And David Grush being in the position he's in probably gives him some protection, you know, because he's working directly for a congressman, a sitting congressman. So hopefully that will provide him, you know, that and the publicity will give a measure of protection. Now, in the same interview with Ross Coulter, they read a memo that Elizondo had written for President Trump, and in it, they introduced an acronym EADT, Emerging All Domain Technologies. I think we could all do without another acronym in this topic, but there we go. I wonder, and for folks who haven't heard, I've just done a news update where I've discussed all this in detail. The idea is there, it's an umbrella term where you can have UAP drones of human origin and non-human origin and other advanced technologies as a descriptor. And then within that, you can pick out, well, actually, this is genuine UFO. This is Chinese drones. This is Skunk Works, you know, latest invention. So that makes sense. But I wonder, are we in an age where we are seeing incredibly advanced technologies more publicly as nations are spying on each other in a really obvious way, and the public are kind of getting caught in the crossfire of, you know, confusing, competing technologies? That does not explain all the sightings, but certainly a percentage of them. Is that what you think might be happening? I think there's some of that happening. Like with the New Jersey drones, you know, I lived through that. You know, I had the objects flying right over my house, you know, night after night, we watched them for hours. Do you mind, Jeff, what exactly were you seeing then? Because I've said before, what we were seeing online, it's so difficult when someone sends you a video using a cell phone, it's late night, and they say, here's a camera. You can't make out anything distinguishing around about it. You can see a point of light, maybe a few points of light, and it lasts for 15 seconds, and they tell you, this was doing all these crazy maneuvers, and then joined something else, but you don't see any of that. So what exactly were you seeing, and what were your kind of thoughts? So yeah, what we were seeing, I classify them as anomalous. So they, you know, it was the lights, and there would be anywhere from a dozen to three dozen at a time, flying over Manhattan, and they were doing like a racetrack pattern. They would, they would go over Manhattan, they would loop around Jersey over my house, back to Manhattan, different altitudes. And very slow moving, typically, I never saw any abrupt maneuvers. But the thing that was anomalous about them, like they were 200 feet over the house, right? And we, a few times, I would run outside and look. A lot of times, we're just in the window watching them getting videos. And the problem is, they were hard to resolve with the naked eye, even at close range. You could see the lights, the green, the red flashing, but you couldn't resolve the object, even at close range. So you couldn't see what you were looking at, you can see the lights on the end. And then they would slowly just, you know, drift away. Some of them were larger than a helicopter, some of them were really large. And we're very familiar with, you know, obviously, I'm familiar with aircraft, but even in our location in Jersey, we've got a helicopter route that goes right over the house in Manhattan daily. It's like a route. So we know the scale and what they sound like, and what they look like when they're 500, 800 feet over the house. These were low, below 500 feet, some of them were larger than helicopters, completely silent. And they had these weird, you know, alternating lights. And yeah, they were just floating around. So all the videos we have, I probably have half a dozen videos are terrible. You can't make out any kind of detail, just the light. Yeah. Um, no noise, difficult to resolve with the eyeball and, and silent, you know, and, and, and hovering for hours and hours. So that's what we saw. I saw zero drones in New Jersey. And I was looking, you know, listening, you know, listening. Yeah. So I don't know what they were, but I never saw one drone. Do you believe that the explanations then, because we had the whole, um, Biden, Biden administration at the time has been really quiet on it. And then we had the incoming Trump administration as they finished our campaign very much saying, you know, day one, we're going to tell you what these were, we know what they were. Um, they then came in and very quickly we hear they were FAA approved. The FAA say that was nonsense. Um, so there was a whole lot of miscommunication going on with it. For me, it seems there's, there's an element perhaps, like I say, of adversarial technology, a really advanced adversarial technology being tested, really not even tested, used publicly. And then there may be elements of you, a genuinely anomalous object, shall we say, mixed with a gnat as well. Um, where do we, what, what do we do with that information? Because it seems to have just gone nowhere. And yet again, is this then a knock on the UFO topic and potential progress that the public are so easy to just go, meh, okay, they lied because they did. Everyone seemed to have lied about it because they're all really confused. And the people who should know, I personally don't believe that they cannot track these objects, at least back to a point of origin. I know they said that. I would imagine that's bullshit. Yeah. And that's the thing. The, the, the government response was completely incoherent, right? We had, we had congressmen saying there were Iranian motherships. We, and on and on, like it was incoherent. And that's the main issue, right? We had the, um, the mayor of Bloomfield, New Jersey, which is like five miles from my house in Jersey. He had these things right over his house and he was all over the news. He was on podcasts demanding to know like what is flying over my, my neighborhood. And I felt the same way. These things are over our churches, our schools, our homes. And if, if it is research, no one consented to it. So what right does the FAA or the fed have to do research on me and my family and my community without any kind of consent authorization explanation, right? Yeah. So it, it, you have to take it down. It's either a completely anomalous meeting. These are UFOs, whatever that means, or it's a state level actor. It's the United States doing something to their own people without consent, or it's an, it's a foreign adversary nation doing something to the American public without consent, right? Um, so the whole situation is, you know, it, it, it's a disaster. And the problem is the news cycle moves so quickly that it gets left in the dust, right? But I know that like those police officers in New Jersey, I've spoken to a few of them. Uh, I'm hoping to speak to the mayor of Bloomfield and other people. And, you know, we, I, I'm working with some other people in New York that have not let this issue go. They want to know what those drones were. I call them UFOs. Yeah. What those UFOs were over New Jersey, over Long Island, over Manhattan and what they were doing. And, um, we're not going to give up on that fight. We're going to try to get people, witnesses and, um, policy makers and the police together and have a discussion and try to put some pressure back to the fed and the FAA and be like, tell us what you were doing over our communities and why and what. So hopefully that, you know, that will start to play out over the next year. We're not done with New Jersey. You know, the, the new cycle has forgotten it, but the people that were affected by that have not forgotten. The, the new cycle right now is being impacted, uh, in a positive way by the age of disclosure documentary. Um, what's, what's your thoughts on the documentary? You were at the premiere, you mentioned in Los Angeles with Dan Farah, New York. Yeah. Cause it was at New York, LA and Washington all had, all had events on, didn't they? Um, what was that like? What was your take on the documentary? Um, and what's your, your thoughts been on the impact since it's come out? Yeah. I mean, the movie for me has been, I, I got involved like three years ago. So I've been kind of watching, you know, in the background, watching it unfold and be put together. And it's just been like a life changing experience, you know, um, and I became good friends with Dan Farah and, um, he actually, him and his other producer, Colin, uh, really went out of their way to, uh, include me and my friend Chaz King, the other Vandenberg witnesses that's in the film. Uh, you know, he, they even invited us, us into some of the editing processes and, um, we got to work a little bit on the visual effects was really cool. You know, so we, we got to really see how these things are put together in the background. So seeing it actually come to fruition and like get birthed into the world was like incredible because I know the amount of work and drama and stress that went into making this film, uh, unbelievable. And there were powers that did not want this film to be made, you know, and, um, people to try to shut it down, derail it, um, you know, the whole time through over that three or four year period. So seeing it come to life on the big screen was huge. And, um, so yeah. And the thing is, I, I had got to seeing the video or the film in full South by Southwest in Austin. Dan invited me out there. And after I saw it, I'm like, wow, this is really going to wake the public up. And that's what the movie was intended to do. It's, it's not for people like me that are well steeped in, in, you know, UFO lore. It's for people like my family, that they know something is going on. They know that there's kind of congressional hearings and, you know, we're having these flaps, but they don't have the full picture. So the movie was really like UFOs 101 for the modern era. Like this is what has been going on, you know, since like 2017, or even, you know, prior to that, yeah, walking the situation out. It's basically a full, like two hour briefing for the public. You know, it's a full blown, like unclassified briefing to walk out in a very, uh, coherent manner. This is what's been going on. This is what we're trying to do. And this is where we need to go in the future if we ever want answers. And the film just, you know, crushed it, man. And I knew when I saw that film at South by Southwest, it was going to have a huge impact, you know, on the population in general. And that's what we need. If we have an engaged and enthusiastic public, they will put pressure on the government, Congress and the Senate, you know, to look into it, to try to provide answers to the public, to act in good faith with the public, right? Because we have questions and the, the government allegedly has the answers, but they're not sharing. So I think, you know, the movie is just going to gain more and more momentum as more and more people see it globally. And it's really going to put pressure on the government to start addressing the phenomenon, you know. Yeah. I've been pleasantly surprised by the impact it's had since it's come out. Um, my, my concern, and I still don't think it's completely unwarranted was it's largely going to be the UFO community. Like you say, who it's not for really, um, is going to be the ones buying it. And I think it's the UFO community that deserve a pat on the back for getting it to where it is because Dan Farah and co have been very quick to, to shout and share as they should about the placing on Amazon prime, how well it's doing. I would say that is to put a number on it, 90%, at least UFO centered folks who people who listen and watch this podcast and others who are buying it and picking it up. But I think then it's being clipped and streamed in different formats and little bits and pieces information. So different these days, I think to try and get anyone under the age of 21 to sit and watch a 90 minute documentary is difficult. That's actually slightly longer than that, but just the clips from it have gone viral online. I've had people asking me my opinion. Genuinely, I've struggled to get folks who are going to watch it for me to watch it, even with me offering to pay for it. I've got one friend who watched it, but I just think that's the nature of kind of documentaries. Um, however, it seems to be gaining traction. USA today ran a front page highlighting the work of Michael Sifoni and the society for UAP studies. Uh, we have seen multiple big podcasts and other shows now pick up and talk about the topic. Um, recently poly market, which I wasn't too sure of the whole poly market thing, but essentially makes predictions and you can buy and gamble essentially on predictions. This is what it looks like that shot up. And it was like president Trump to disclose information or declassify files by the end of the year is now like 90% guaranteed. It still seemed essentially like buying stocks or gambling. It's not to say that's going to happen and any number of things can set that off. However, it's looking positive. And even then off the back of that, something I imagine it's going to get even more eyeballs just because of the nature of the entertainment as the Steven Spielberg movie is now being advertised on billboards across the U S and we don't know the titles yet. It's rumored to be called disclosure or the dish or non view. I imagine disclosure is probably going to be the title or something like that. Um, but that comes out next summer is all of this building towards a positive view of the UFO topic. And it's long been rumored that guys like Spielberg and the entertainment industry have had a hand in disclosure or are testing the water at different times. If I was being really optimistic, Jeff and being Scottish, that's difficult for me. But if I was being really optimistic, I'm looking going big Hollywood documentary, the mainstream is picking up on this. They're not ridiculing it. The mainstream is actually now addressing the fact we used to ridicule this, but it seems that we shouldn't and can't. Yeah. I know next summer, the big blockbuster is Steven Spielberg and it's a movie straight up about UFOs. Does, does this all lead to a positive place or is it just good timing and marketing? It might be a combination, but I think it all leads to a good place, right? Regardless of what the phenomenon is, or if there's, um, you know, dark aspects to it, with terrifying aspects, which I believe there, there, there probably is, right? There's good and bad and everything. Um, we need to know, we need to know, like what re how reality is constituted, right? Uh, and the more we're aware that reality is strange, the more we can investigate it, and we could kind of reframe our paradigm. And start asking different types of scientific questions, in building different kinds of experiments to explore this phenomenon, because we know it's real. Um, and some people claim to know what they know what it is, but I don't know what it is, right? Seems to be a multitude of things. So all of this to me is a good push in the right direction to where we could finally, even if the government never moves another inch on it, movies like Age of Disclosure and this new film coming out by Spielberg are going to, you know, ignite people's curiosity, you know, worldwide. And then you're going to have people digging into this topic, exploring it. Some of those people will end up being scientists and authors and musicians and whatever. And, you know, it's just going to roll and add to the curiosity. And more people are going to look into it. So eventually, we're going to get to a place in society where the stigma is much lower. much lower. And I think that's what we're working with these movies, you know, I think the hope lies in the artist. Because artists capture the truth, right? In a certain way, they capture the emotion, they capture the feeling, the zeitgeist of something, without having to prove anything, approve a truth, right? You hear music, and it moves. There's a truth to it. So I think the more artists are involved and engaged in the topic and somehow try to express this fundamental truth through art, the better off we'll be. You know, and that's happening. You know, it's happening right now in multiple domains, not just filming, you know, there's incredible sculptors and painters and all kinds of different artists that are delving in and exploring, you know, like the contact events. And, you know, what happens when you look up and you see the impossible, and then you have to integrate it into real life. And, you know, that that journey, and more and more people are having that experience, right? Yeah. And I think that's really interesting about the the picture they've chosen for the Spielberg. Because the trailer's due on the 19th of December, apparently ahead of Avatar, the new Avatar movie, Fire and Ash. And that's a big movie to get ahead of. Not one I'll be going to see. Not a fan of the franchise. No offense, folks. But the that trailer, I might go and see the movie just to see the trailer and leave. I'm sure it'll be online. But the picture of someone appears is looking up, and then the cameras facing down. Yeah, I think that the inclination there is, there's a UFO above them. If you look in their eye, you can see kind of lights reflecting as it's some kind of abduction happening. And then it's within the silhouette of a blue jay bird. And there's all kind of connotations around various different groups have been there in the past. So it could get pretty deep. I think you have to remember, a general public isn't looking for a two hour movie on the Wilson Davis memo. For example, as much as I'm sure a lot of the community, shout out to Joe Murgia and Cole, Richard Dolan, who I'm sure would love a two hour Wilson Davis memo movie, shot in an underground car park somewhere in DC. But you still have to market this to a public. And then you've got the age rating. Do you go 12A? Do you then have to get the kids who want to come and see it involved? And there's a lot of questions around that. But those are those will be answered in due time. And, and Jeff, I got a lot of questions for you, if you don't mind going through some of them for me just to wrap up the podcast. Purple burglar. Actually, I'll go with Adam first, because it kind of relates from the last question. What is Jeff's favorite UFO or alien story that resonates with him other than his own? And why? My grandmother and grandfather's case, the depressed aisle landing. That that case is mind blowing. And so briefly, what happened was my my grandmother and my grandfather on my mother's side, were out fishing on Lake Erie, they used to go every year to fish, they're a big fisherman. And it was evening, they were coming in on a little boat. And there's a state park in a beach in a lighthouse right there. And as they were coming in, it's a Pentagon shaped like saucer type shape came in and landed on the beach. And my grandparents saw that happen. And my grandmother was like, we need to go. So they got to the shore, it was getting dark. She wanted to investigate. My grandfather said no way in hell. They went back to the hotel. And then crack of dawn, my grandmother made my grandfather take her out there to the beach. And by that time, what had happened in the intervening time, there was a group of teenagers on the beach, their car got stuck in the sand. They saw the craft land, it landed like 100 or 200 yards away. They said a creature got out this big kind of amorphous, hairy, almost like a Bigfoot thing. They had an interaction with it. It allegedly, like damaged their car as it ran by. And eventually, the police came, local police came to investigate. The police said over and over in interviews, these people are not lying. We don't know what happened. But something happened. They're not making this up. There was physical evidence. The craft had left eight-inch depressions in the sand from the landing gear. Project Blue Book investigated. The FBI was involved. And long story short, there were multiple witnesses, including police officers that had seen things flying around like two weeks prior. There were two journalists. One of them happened to be taking photographs just at the right time, and caught a photo of the craft coming in. And then the physical evidence on the beach. And Project Blue Book determined that to make those eight-inch depressions in the sand, they would have needed like 1800 pounds of pressure to compact the sand that deep. And the outcome of the investigation was the Air Force said, all this was a hoax pulled off by that 16-year-old girl and her friend. They drove 80 miles from New York, tricked everybody, and case closed. So that's the case that, you know, because that's the case I would grow up hearing. I would watch Close Encounters with my grandmother, and she would tell me, that's real. Like, this stuff happens, and me and your grandfather saw one land. Naturally. That's really cool. And you mentioned Close Encounters. There's even rumors the new Spielberg movie will be connected to Close Encounters and might be some kind of sequel. Well, not called Close Encounters 2. It will maybe follow on, follow a family lineage or something like that. That would be really cool if it was. That would be unbelievable. Like, what happened to those pilots that they've returned at the end of Close Encounter? What happened to Roy when he gets on the ship, right? If it literally could start or end with, like, those coming back. You know, Roy comes back and he's not aged or all that kind of stuff or something like that, or even the end of the movie. It could be a cut scene or, yeah, there's a lot of possibilities and all that kind of stuff, I think, awakens the imagination, doesn't it, for the general public? But yeah, really cool, really cool story to share. Purple Burglar asks, what is a belief you held for most of your life that you later realized was completely wrong? Did that belief reshape the way you make decisions today? That's a deep question. I was going to say it's deep, yeah. I'm not sure about my entire life, but there was a point, probably from my late 20s to my mid-30s, where I became very jaded and, like, irreligious. I just kind of gave up. I'm like, the world is not mysterious. It's not enchanted. All these things that I want to be real, like, magic and UFOs are nonsense. And I was just in that period in my life. And that also happens to be, like, one of the most unpleasant, like, periods of my life, too. You know, I was in the military, very materialistic, very focused on facts, logic, things like that. And then I was sort of coming out of that phase in my earlier, like, mid-30s. And then the Vandenberg stuff happened. And then everything just, the veil just got ripped off again. And that was a huge transition point. I had to re-evaluate everything I had thought again. But it was very, it was traumatic in a way, but also very enlightening, because it gave me some clarity. I'm like, I don't know what reality is now. But I know, whatever these objects are, they're real. And that was a starting point. Because I, you know, it wasn't like I was out camping alone and saw an object. I was with two of my best friends on a base when it happened. And the thing for me, the big change was during all these encounters, right? I never saw the object. You know, I'm running around like a lunatic. I'm hearing it all play out on the radio. People are calling in UFOs, hovering over them and flying around. And I'm driving like a maniac with my head out the window, trying to see it for myself. And I never did. I would get there right after the thing left. And that was a heavy weight on me. Because all these people are telling me like, it's real. And we saw it. And I believe them. They're not lying. It's not a prank. This is really happening. I'm in a movie. Like UFOs are flying around. And I believed it. But I needed the way my brain works. I needed confirmation. I believe my grandmother and my grandfather, I believe my father, he saw the Kecksburg Fireball when he was a kid. I believe these stories, but I needed to see it. And then in 2005, you know, all doubt was removed. And I saw it. And it was real. And it was unbelievable. And I had witnesses with me. And that had to happen too. I couldn't be alone. I know my own personality, my own mind. I might not have really ever talked about it. I might have talked about it just with very close friends, right, and family. But without those other people there to validate that I'm not crazy, and I'm not hallucinating, and I'm not, you know, manic or something, I needed all that. So everything that needed for me to get to this point happened. And then I spent 20 something years thinking. There's something to be said in that for like, when you're a kid, and this is not applied to everyone, everyone, nothing does. But like imagination and inspiration as a kid is so much easier to come by. Like I would go and see a film in the Senate, I remember going to see the first mission impossible. And as a kid, I was a proper geek. I mean, I've got a UFO podcast. I still am a geek, right? And a UFO book and everything like that, right? So I am still a geek. But I think just with the framework you live your life by, as you grow older, you lose a lot of that imagination and spark and interest because you've got this kind of structured life, you have to work, you have to get money, you have to live life a certain way. A lot of that other stuff kind of goes out the window. I would go and see a movie, come home and start writing comic books. And I can't draw. I'm no artist, never have been. But I would come up with like series off the back of mission impossible. I would go and see power rangers and I would start writing all these comics and stuff like that. And then that just kind of dies off as you get older and you start to be more serious across life. And I think that's an issue with a lot of folks when it comes to the UFO topic, we are trying to tell someone in their thirties, forties or fifties who don't have an interest or like you, you haven't had that confirmation, that experience that you need to go, shit, that there's something to this. And I think that can, that turns off so much of society and perhaps more so in the West, whereas there are other places, tribes, indigenous peoples, um, who, who do accept this as being part of culture, part of reality, part of nature. Yeah. Yet in the West, it's still shunned in a lot of ways. And maybe you need that experience or sighting to, to spark something in you. And I've, I had that when I was a kid, I had that sighting that I can always go back to. And I've said, and I'm going to use you, Jeff here, just as an example. If tomorrow yourself, Grush, Elizondo, Mellon, Borland, Brown, you all stand in front of a camera and go, this was all a big psyop. We have been doing this to test some new psychotronic drug or I don't know, you know, and everyone in the UFO community goes, ah, it was all bullshit. Well, I had my sighting. I know what I saw. That doesn't matter that those guys were lying or it was all a ruse, whatever it was. And I think for a lot of people, unless you've had that confirmation, they can struggle. And to your point, you may never have even spoke about it. Yeah. And that's the thing we're trying to make the world safe for people to speak the truth. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's the thing, like you said, like, we, we deceive ourselves in life. We try to talk ourselves like out, like I didn't see that maybe it was a bird or whatever. But that that's the thing, like, it seems like reality is very mysterious and strange, and we don't understand it. And, you know, science has so many questions, like we don't understand what gravity really is, or how it works. You know, they've combined space time into a thing. And, you know, these encounters are, there's some kind, to me, I think there's some kind of communication. You know, because I keep talking about the pattern. The pattern is, you know, you're going through your regular life, and then you see a light, and you pay attention to the light, because it catches your attention, right? It's doing something, it's odd. It's an outlier, anomaly, you pay attention to that light. And then you're trying to figure it out, is that satellite or what, and then it performs for you. It rips the veil off, because it starts to flutter like a leaf, or it disappears, or whatever, right? So, there's an attention, and then an interaction of performance. And then with the Vandenberg incidents, in almost every case, after the performance of visitation, they come down, you know, they hover for a moment, and then they fly off. So there is an interaction between us and it, whatever it is, right? Yeah. And that's the thing we try to talk ourselves out of. And that's why I'm excited. More and more people are kind of waking up, and it's a personal journey, you know, I'm not trying to convince the world to look at this. But for people like you, and like me, that maybe you saw something as a kid, or in college, and now it's 10, 15 years later, and you know what you saw, you know, it was weird. Yeah, this is giving you permission to talk about, to find other people, like minded people that you can discuss it, explore, and not be afraid to talk about what is real, like what you have really experienced, right? And that's where we're moving to. Yeah. And that's why I'll respect folks get in touch with me, Jeff, and you may hear this, who say, I've never seen anything myself, but they're really into the topic. And I don't know how I would feel about a lot of this topic, had I not had my own sighting that I couldn't ever explain away. Because it would be so easy to go, oh, person A, I thought they were telling the truth, they've made a mistake, they've made a second mistake, I'm no longer going to believe them, the UFO topics all bullshit. But there's so many people have had so many different experiences, like yourself, the Vandenberg stuff, where you're now hearing actually all these really serious military guys who at one time were the bad guys, you were the shadowy figures who would come and retrieve things and clear everything up. Oh, actually, no, these guys and women are now all seeing things and have been for decades and decades and decades. And now you're coming forward. And it's another, not that everyone needs it, but it's another level of permission to be like, it's okay, people are talking about this now. Let me just follow up on that. Then Adam had another question. He says, since the 2017 New York Times article, and all of the development since, how has Jeff's view of the phenomenon changed and evolved? It's constantly changing, updating and evolving in my head. I mean, I'm at a point now where I'm very comfortable not knowing. I'm not trying to categorize it. I'm not trying to say it's ET or crypto or whatever. I'm more interested in I think what we're dealing with is reality interacting with our consciousness, right? That I think reality is constituted in a way where it is full of life, there's life at multiple scales, right? So just like when we invented a microscope scope, and we look down, we're shocked, we find out that there's a whole invisible universe underneath us at a different scale, things that are alive, interacting with us, in the environment, with us that we were completely unaware of. And I think that scales through reality. And reality, and the universe is so vast and incomprehensible, that we don't understand really what what we're part of. And we have these limiting senses, that shunt out most of reality, because our brains can't handle it, right? We can't look at the entire electromagnetic spectrum, but we must be overwhelmed. So in our human, you know, bodies, we're seeing tiny slivers of reality, we can't see the micro, we can't see the macro without a tool. And now we have tools, we have telescopes, we have microscopes, we have all these different kinds of analytical tools. And the more we look, the weirder things are getting right. You keep hearing James Webb telescope, find structure that should be impossible. Yeah, physicists baffled by, you know, what they find out there. And in the same is true, if you look down, you eventually get to quantum and then it doesn't make any sense, right? We're dealing with magic. We're dealing with the the observer can make the universe decide, you know, positive or negative spin, the observer effect. So, you know, I think reality is so strange and bizarre. And we're just kind of getting started in exploring it. And a lot of what we knew as humans has been thrown out. All the observations we've made throughout our history, if you read our religious texts and our mythology and our legends, we're talking about a universe that's alive with life. And sometimes we interact, you know, and I think that that is baseline reality. That's what human beings have been documenting and observing as far back into antiquity as you go. Lights in the sky, things in the ocean, lights in the forest, right? And now we have, we're being forced to look again, you know, peek behind the veil. Yeah. And Matthew Brown, when he came forward, made that statement that reality is classified, didn't he? I think it was a cliffhanger at the end of his first or second appearance on weaponized. And that certainly seems to be the case. And certainly is a lot of what you're getting at there, Jeff. And Mark wants to know is, and sorry for folks who are watching on YouTube, my heated blanket has turned off and I'm trying to really subtly grab the controller that is on the floor. So apologies, Jeff, if it looks like I'm rummaging down below. The conversation's great, but it's not that exciting folks. So my hands are going for the control. Mark wants to know, is national security being misused to cover up corruption and to protect the selective contractors whilst they work on UAP crash retrievals? Yeah, probably. I mean, national security is a blanket to use for any kind of, any kind of shenanigans, right? Public safety. And that's what the government is using, you know, to do digital surveillance and mass, you know, data collection and things like that. We're trying to keep the public safe, national security, public safety, right? So yeah, they can use that blanket. And they certainly are with the over-classification. And that extends beyond UFOs. I mean, things are over-classified on every conceivable level all the way down. Even like during my military time, there would be things in a secret classified briefing that were public knowledge, you know, as public like law enforcement information, or maybe there was some kind of terrorist, you know, event that happened in a different country that's on the news. And then I'm in this briefing in a skiff, and they're talking about, I'm like, this is not classified. Yeah, like every, you know, so that is just a massive problem in government. And, and that's what Congress is, that's the labyrinth they're trying to navigate. They can't find out who they need to talk to, to get the ball ruling on getting the proper clearances. Congress needs to investigate. That's the problem, over-classification. And Will asks, regarding the UAP incursions Jeff testified about, did he ever see or was he ever told that these craft were definitively manufactured off planet by NHI? No, no, the only sort of information I got like that was through Arrow. Arrowgate provided me an update a few years ago. And it was something to the effect that they had checked special access programs run by the US military, and the objects we encountered at Vandenberg were not part of any of those. So that was good for me. That's confirmation. That was not like US tech being tested on us. So it's either adversarial or other, right? Or they lied. Or they are. Yeah. And that's the thing with Arrow. Like what can we believe coming out of Arrow? And I don't want to go full rabbit hole stuff and conspiratorial. I like to think I'm pretty sensible. But I do always try and look at every option. And I've spoken with many folks who are military backgrounds, government backgrounds, and I mean no disrespect, but the idea that a government wouldn't lie or test stuff on its own people has been shown throughout history to not be true. And it's only so many years or decades later that you find this kind of stuff out, if indeed it comes out at all. So yeah, you wouldn't want it to be the case, but would you necessarily put it past a small... And again, we're not... The US government isn't an office. You don't knock on the door and say, hi, we're the US government. How can we help? It's offices, compartments, teams of people that never meet, never know what each other do, which is part of the problem, but also helps hide a lot of this stuff, doesn't it? And I suppose on that, Will's final question and the last question from the listeners was, on a scale of one to 10, how disappointed are you, Jeff, that no whistleblower protections have been extended to anyone with UAP info? 10. The whole whistleblower protection thing is a long conversation. I know that all these bills and amendments have been put in, but the crux of the issue is, there is an entire bureaucracy dedicated to protecting whistleblowers that I'm very familiar with. This is the Office of Special Counsel within the DOD, or I'm sorry, within the DOJ. And there is a massive organization. The law is very clear, the protections are laid out. All the infrastructure to protect witnesses is in place. It has been for decades. The problem is, it's not working. The system is not working. It is already in place and should work fine. And that's a leadership issue. And there's also bureaucratic issues with it. And there's manpower issues. So if they really want to protect whistleblowers, and I tried to relate this to Congress. What Congress could do immediately is ask all the agencies in the federal government, how many whistleblower complaints do you have active and open right now? How many investigators and lawyers are on each case? And how many cases does each investigator and lawyer have on their plate? And what you will find is one investigator lawyer might have 200 whistleblower complaints on their docket. And they are responsible for protecting, guiding, counseling, investigating each one of those cases. And whistleblower cases are incredibly complicated. They're resource intensive, time intensive, right? So if you're an investigator with five cases, it's too much, let alone 200. And that's something that they could do and fix rapidly. You could hire a whole bunch of lawyers coming out of law school, get them trained, assign them cases with a mentor, you know, a skilled lawyer investigator, put teams together, and start investigating these whistleblower complaints, right? Because one complaint could take multiple years to resolve. That's a problem. So if the government is actually interested in protecting whistleblowers, they could do that right now. Without legislation, without fighting, hire people to do the job and get the job done. And final question for me, Jeff, I want to ask you, and I'm going to give you that. I think this is a really nice question to finish on because it gives you a lot of freedom to not have to talk about things that are either ndaid, classified, things you're involved in that you can't speak about yet, but you can talk around. I'm going to ask you for three predictions that may very well happen in 2026. Oh, wow. And the UFO topic, not baseball, NFL, anything like that. So three predictions. I'll definitely tell you what I'd like to see happen. Yeah. I want to see near the end of the year and leading up to this, I want to see more hearings. Some people have said, you know, we've heard enough. That's completely wrong. I believe the battle begins now. So what the way I look at it, David Grush kicked the door open. Standing behind the door was Dylan Borland. And behind Dylan Borland are shadowy figures that are waiting, whistleblowers that have the information we all want to know about biologics, about craft, about crash recoveries, about reverse engineering. I believe those people exist. And I want to hear from them. But before we can, there's a lot of work that needs to be done. I want to see that work done. And I'm working on that behind the scenes to the best of my ability. So my prediction, one prediction, is around the end of the year, next year, we're going to see three critically important hearings, structured around a massive event movement of the people coming together, raising their voices, and demanding in a peaceful and respectful manner from the government, the truth. So that's my prediction. That's something I'm working for. We need to gather, we the people together. And this could be a worldwide movement. We need to raise our voices, we need to be heard. And we need a response from the powers that be. Right. So that's one prediction, I believe that will happen. I'm going to work to make that happen. What else? I think you're going to see a lot more witnesses and whistleblowers come forward, not through the government, but through podcasts and news sources, you're going to see a flood. And that can be tricky because anybody can jump into this space. The vetting process. I've had people get in touch with me, Jeff, in the past. I've not had Matthew Brown or Dylan or yourself reach out to me first. And I would never want anyone who listens to this, who's a serious whistleblower, to reach out to me first. Please go to Corbel Knapp or Coulthart, or go to one of the bigger sources. But yeah, I'm always wary of that because I can't do the checks that other people can. Yeah. So that's prediction too. You're going to see a flood. From every walk of life, military, civilians, you're just going to see people that are emboldened and encouraged share their story. And that's a good thing overall. And the third thing, my prediction is you're going to see heroes fall. The celebrities, the thought leaders in this space, the people that are out there claiming to be doing the work, taking the credit, getting the glory, shaping the narrative. You're going to see those people fall flat on their face. And that's going to be disrupted to the community, to the movement, to everything. You know, because there are bad actors out there. And there is a, in my opinion, I can't prove this, but the Fed has actively infiltrated the podcasting space. I put this out publicly a few months ago. Kurt Jai Mungle, who I'm a fan of, put a tweet out a few months ago and said, Hey, what's going on in UFO world? And I said, here's what's going on. The FBI is infiltrating the podcast space. And you're going to see that start to play out. And I think that is going to play out. And you're going to, because of that initiative and other initiatives, you're going to see heroes fall. Yeah, unfortunately. I'll just announce my next guest is Cash Patel. No, no, he's not. He's coming on to Jeff Nusatelli and I've got a new $1 million studio being set up for the folks. Yeah. But listen, you've not asked me to promote this, but I'm going to mention it, Jeff. You set up a whistleblower defense fund through a GoFundMe. It's currently sitting around 90% of its $8,000 target. There's less than $1,000 to go, folks. Do you want to just very quickly finish off Jeff by mentioning this and anything else you want to touch on? Yeah. So one major initiative that I'm working on collaborating with multiple people that it's taken a bit longer than I expected to get up and running, what the plan is. So after the hearing, Dylan and I, and many others in the background, knowns and unknowns, we identified what a major hurdle for us is. We have been relying on organizations and the Fed to help us, to support us, to get us to Congress, things like that. That help is not coming. It is not manifested. You will hear many organizations say, we are supporting whistleblowers. We are working with them, not with me, not with my friends that testified. We had no support leading up to that, except for Jeremy Corbell. Without Jeremy Corbell, the hearing would not have happened. We did not have the support we needed. We couldn't have even gotten there, some of us. Why? Because people are unemployed, right? People are, we can't pay our bills, we're unemployed, on and on. And going to Congress is expensive. Flights from, you know, California are not cheap. Hotel rooms, things like that, right? So we received no support from these big organizations claiming to be on the topic. The only person that supported us was Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp. They helped, right? So we decided after that, the whistleblowers can't, we're not, we're done begging Congress and begging these other organizations for support, because it's not coming. So what we're going to do is we're going to build our own organization, run by whistleblowers and witnesses to support whistleblowers and witnesses, give them what they need to take the stress out of their life. If that, if they're unemployed, we can give them direct financial support to pay their bills, to maybe get some medical insurance, to just get the ground under their feet level. Because many people we know that want to come forward, their lives are in just chaos, because they've lost their jobs, they've been, you know, they've lost their clearance on and on. So that's what the whistleblower defense fund. Uh, that's why we initiated it, it's a stop gap, just to try to get some money in flowing so I can help people directly stop the bleeding. And then the goal is we build out a professional organization, a nonprofit that we could directly support people, help them get to Congress, you know, um, help them get their lives on track. And we want to also include the community. We want to do things like retreats, events, where people like anybody in the community can come and, and meet Dylan Borland, meet me, meet Matthew Brown, meet all these other people, talk to them, share their experiences, you know, do some healing together. There's a lot of value in that. So we need resources to do that. And we want to, um, get rid of some of these barriers, these pay to play things like, you know, like, Oh, if you want to meet the whistleblowers, you got to buy a $2,500 dinner ticket, or you have to, you know, travel here and put out some money. And we want to kind of get rid of that and open up, you know, to where just anybody can come and participate, you know? So that's the big pie in the sky, um, thing that we're working on right now. Awesome. I know a lot of listeners got in touch, especially after the hearing and they heard Dylan Borland's story on weaponized. And obviously he talked about how difficult it was to get a job, getting clearances back, just trying to make ends meet. And obviously I think you've, you've articulated that really well, that when you finish this podcast, Jeff, you're not off to your mansion to, to go for a dip in the pool. You've, you've come on with me after dropping your kids off at school. You then go about your life. I've had multiple guests in a similar fashion who go about different things. You don't ask me for money. Um, and it's, it's very much your own time. You're trying to get this point across to people. So if folks want to donate, the link will be in the description as well. Um, and it has a chance to give back as well there folks. So once again, Jeff, thank you so much for your time, mate. Thank you, Andy. Dude, it was a pleasure finally meeting you in real life. I hope we can do that again soon, man. So anytime, you know, give me a call and I would, I'm going to order and read your book for sure. So I'm, I'm glad you finally got that out and published. Congratulations, man. I've heard good things about it. I haven't read it yet, but I will. Yeah. Um, I believe it's on president Trump's desk. That may or may not be true. Um, but yeah, there we go as a paperweight, but Jeff, thank you so much, mate. Great talking. Great. Thank you, man. That's all for this episode of that UFO podcast. Thank you so much for listening and watching. If you enjoyed the show, please follow, subscribe, and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps others find the show. If you're watching on YouTube, hit like, subscribe and turn on notifications. So you don't miss future episodes. You can also support the show directly and get early access, add free episodes and bonus content on Patreon or by subscribing on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube memberships. All the links are over at thatufopodcast.com or in the show description below along with merchandise and more. Don't forget. You can also pick up a copy of my book Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects, available now in all good bookstores and through online retailers, including Amazon. Big thank you again to all of you for listening and tuning in. Until next time, keep looking up. You never know what you might see.