What Lies Beneath the Pyramids of Egypt

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Up to three concurrent streams. MLB trademarks used with permission. Astonishing Legends Network. Listen to the Astonishing Jump Drawer exclusively at patreon.com slash Astonishing Legends. I've lost all track of what day of the week it is. We're still talking about movies. I'm sorry. The earth is going to be fine. They call it the elephant's foot. Michelle said you're hanging on by a thread so you might as well take that vodka shot. If Prince had crawled out of his grave I don't think he could have gotten into the live show. If you want to roam the earth in that, you have at it. That's weird. You didn't end the stream. I'm ending it now. I don't know why we don't go away at the end of that. We should. I think we're supposed to. Maybe I'm supposed to make us go away ahead of time. Now we're going. Bye everybody. Good night. Astonishing Legends would like to thank Hymns, Squarespace, Wild Grain, our contributors at patreon.com, and you, our listeners, for making tonight's show possible. If you've been anywhere near social media in the past few weeks, you've likely been bombarded by a story that's being called the discovery of the century. A story so extraordinary, so mind-bending, it's hard to believe it's real. It's a tale of a vast, multi-level complex hidden beneath the sands of Giza. Geometric passageways, cylindrical shafts plunging deep into the earth, and chambers that defy conventional understanding. The news spread like wildfire, igniting imaginations and sparking global debates. But as the dust settles, questions linger. Is this a groundbreaking revelation? A misinterpretation of data? Or could it be something far more astonishing? Something that challenges everything we think we know about ancient civilizations? There are those who say it's the legendary halls of Amenti, a repository of ancient wisdom lost to time. Others speculate it could be a power plant, a weapon, or even a gateway to another realm. The possibilities are as vast as the complex itself. But what is the truth? What is the evidence? And is it too early to even make an assessment? Who are the people behind these extraordinary claims? And what drives them to explore the unknown? Tonight, we delve into this story that has captivated the world. We'll examine the science, the skepticism, and the sheer, mind-boggling possibility of what might lie beneath the pyramids. From cutting-edge technology to ancient myths, from peer-reviewed papers to viral conspiracy theories, we'll explore every angle of this mystery. Could this be the key to unlocking secrets buried for millennia? Or is it another tantalizing puzzle that will leave us with more questions than answers? Welcome back to Astonishing Legends. I'm Scott Philbrook, and this is Forrest Burgess. These claims are merely attempts to undermine the grandeur of ancient Egyptian civilization. However, these attempts are futile, and such baseless rumors will ultimately be consigned to the dustbin of history. Dr. Zawi Hawass, former Minister of Tourism and Antiquities for Egypt, to the media when asked about this story. Join us tonight for a fascinating discussion on a viral news story about what lies beneath the Great Pyramids of Egypt. And we're back. That we are, folks. Thank you so much for joining us again. We'd like to thank everyone for all the wonderful feedback we've been getting on the Astonishing Dead Letter Office. We're continuing to produce them weekly to the best of our ability and are always excited to hear your stories. So send those in to deadletteroffice at astonishinglegends.com, and we'll check them out. Yes, and just so you know, folks, the Dead Letter Office is part of our main feed, so if you're subscribed to Astonishing Legends, you'll get the Dead Letter Office as well. And if you're just interested in one show or the other, you can tell them apart by either their logos or their length, because the Dead Letter Office is a much shorter show than our main show, much like every other podcast out there. Well, not all of them, but I bet most folks didn't think we could do a shorter show, did you? But we did it, so there you go. We just posted the 22nd Dead Letter Office already, and it's only getting better and better as we settle into the groove on production for it. Yeah, so if you haven't subscribed to Astonishing Legends already, do it now and get the Dead Letter Office weekly on Tuesdays as well. Yes, and if commercials aren't your thing, a reminder that our main show and the Dead Letter Office are both available earlier and commercial-free on our Patreon at patreon.com slash astonishinglegends. We'd love to see you over there. All right, that's enough housekeeping for tonight. So let's dive into this insane story. All right, so we've already talked about this, but obviously this starts with the story that's been blowing up the internet the past 15 days or so by now, and I mean, you sent it to me, Forrest, I sent it to you, two other friends of mine sent it to me asking, what did we think? But for the uninitiated, it's a big news story about a possible underground complex beneath the Giza pyramids. What did you make of it, Forrest, the first time that you saw it? We talked a little bit about this subject and the broader philosophical strokes about how we approach these topics and what interests us, and I was thinking about it, and really my approach has been the same as when we first started the show, and that I don't come to this, hopefully, with any kind of bias. Certainly, I like things to be true because that's the more interesting thing. This is the fun thing is that if this were true and fantastical things did exist, that's just who I am. And, you know, and again, there's another type of personality where it's like, this is all belowny. None of this is real. I'm going to go so far as to set out to do a show to knock this all down, and that's fine because we need that counterpoint. Yeah, not only is it not real, but you're stupid if you think it is. You're stupid. And also, what we've been called, if we would even entertain ideas like this, we are, quote, unquote, dangerous. I'm still not sure how that's dangerous. I saw that in the research leading up to this one. It's like, it can be downright dangerous. And for the record, I do believe there can be dangerous messaging in certain conspiracies, especially if they're rooted in, you know, destabilizing political systems and things like that. But whether or not something is underneath the pyramids does not feel dangerous to me on the surface. I'm sure, you know, go ahead and send the emails about how it is. Well, no, and what it is is when we first got called that, and that was tied to our good friend Blake and having us on, how dare he, first of all, for even entertaining us. At Monster Talk, whose show has a skeptic angle, and we went on his show too. Yeah, yeah. And no, we love it because we want to hear that viewpoint, and we want to incorporate that and scrape it, as they say nowadays, with the AI. So, but reading the comments about our appearance, it's like, you know, this kind of talk, and, you know, these guys are idiots, and this is dangerous. And it's like, all right, we're not proposing anything. But I've heard this said about Graham Hancock in an article, I think it was in The Guardian, and that his ideas were dangerous because the inference I got was that, well, if you believe this crap, next thing you know, you're going to be storming your government's capital and causing riots and all kinds of mayhem and blowing things up. It's like, that's a bit of a leap for me. Like, but I can see the conspiratorial thing here also in the Snopes article, which you sent me, it's like, well, I don't know if this is real. It's like, okay, let me take a look at this. And the word conspiracy was also used there. It's like, what is the conspiracy here in that there is ancient knowledge and past ancient civilizations that had advanced knowledge and technology? Is that a conspiracy? Or is just the conspiracy to go against the mainstream thinking? And I think that's probably it. But getting back to my point of what I thought about this, it's like my main goal in starting the show and in talking with my friends about it, like with you, is to know what this thing is. What is it? What's going on? Right. And I often think about the great Fran Lebowitz quote. I think it's even on mugs and bookmarks now. It's before you speak, think. And before you think, read. And the idea is like, before you go spouting off with the latest catchphrase of the day, look into this thing. What should you think about it? Look at all sources. Yeah. There's a lot of knee-jerk reactions with a headline like this that grabs a lot of attention. Right. And that's what we saw in some of the articles where it's just like, okay, we're back to the same old chestnuts of like, you know, this guy's a kook. This is unfounded. This is totally false. I like the Snopes article because it had a lot of good sources, but the labeling on it, and I'll say this at the beginning, was that this story was false. Well, what do you mean by that? Do these people not exist? Is this a hoax? Did they not find any data? Or is it just a misinterpretation? And I would think that that labeling is a little unfair because I've read other Snopes declarations or their branding on it. It's like, needs more information. Like, okay, that's fair. Yeah. Rather than just saying like, this is all, you know, false just says, none of this is true. So that's a really good point. And, you know, the Snopes thing was one of the first things that I went to look for with it because sometimes you do see, and it's like, no, this is the only source for this is a person that was a proven bot that it's a clickbait thing and they're just trying to get traffic to their TikTok or whatever. And that's where this all goes back to. And so you can't trust it. And it's false. In this case, we have three people, two college professors and another Egyptologist who've been involved in this a long, long time, but it's all based on a work that they did in 2022. There's papers published. These folks are working at universities in Italy. These are, as you just said, these are real people. There's real data associated with this. It could be being misinterpreted. It's bleeding edge, like cutting edge information, the way they compiled the information, which we'll talk a little bit about. But I agree with you. It's maybe not fair to label it false. What you could say is it needs more information or maybe the headline is kind of false, but you know what they do on Reddit when this happens is it just says misleading title. Okay. So maybe it's a misleading title. Maybe it's a misleading idea or something like that. Yeah. And that's what I would say about false because what that does, it's the same thing as the guerrilla skeptics of Wikipedia is going through and just deleting everything that they think is silly. Whatever they personally classify as pseudoscience or they just delete it or they wash it off the entries. Yeah. One of the names, Joseph, oh, the last name is blanking on, but basically I recognized him from his work with the Nazi bell, Die Glocke. Which we covered, folks, by the way, if you look up Astonishing Legends, Nazi bell, you'll find we did an extensive series on that. Right. Which they basically just, all the fun stuff that was in there, they just got rid of it and just said, a hoax. Are parts of it a hoax? Are some of it true? Some of these people did exist. Is it, yeah. And is it only a hoax because you can't lay your eyes or your hands on it right this second? Because there's a lot of stuff like that. The other thing that keeps coming up in the articles is that, quote, unquote, no credible sources. And credible sources, though, that was hot linked. I will say, because I clicked on that too. It's like, when it says no credible sources and there was a link and I like clicked on it and then you get a search return, you know, like a Google or whatever search, you choose your search engine. And it's because of an overwhelming portion or in that case, the link that they provided, the articles that are cited with relation to tonight's topic are the Daily Mail, the Star, you know, the tabloids. Yeah. You have organizations and certainly, of course, they make mistakes and they're after clickbait. And then what you're really getting at, what you mean by credible sources is credible people. So you and I had this brief discussion before we started here. Well, what does that mean? Are you looking for a academic title? Are you looking for accolades and published papers and awards to be credible? The platform has to be credible. Well, you know, the first thing they're going to say, you're looking for scientifically submitted, peer-reviewed papers where the science has been evaluated by other scientists who have been able to reproduce the results and agree with the findings. And what did we find a couple of years ago in a few articles and just recently within last month, now there's a problem with the peer review process. That's not credible, it seems, or it's flawed. It's got deep-rooted flaws in it and things are kind of lackluster and things aren't really being peer-reviewed. They seem to be kind of rubber-stamped in a way or people aren't really paying attention. So now there's a problem with that. Well, what does that mean? Does that give it a validation? Depends on your viewpoint, which is all I'm talking about here. It's all about your personal point of view and how you view this kind of stuff. Because if you're talking about credible people, Avi Loeb, who we interviewed, well, if you're looking for titles, he's got a pretty big one. Is there somebody more credible than him? Well, I would argue no, because here's a guy who has a laundry list of titles and accolades and things that he's accomplished, like five of them at once. If you can't remember our coverage on him, an Israeli-American theoretical physicist, works in the areas of astrophysics and cosmology. He's the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University since 2007, director of the Institute for Theory and Computation at the Center for Astrophysics, chaired the astronomy department from 2011 to 2020, and founded the Black Hole Initiative. So I would find it hard to argue with that if you're just looking for academic titles, but you may not agree with his conclusions. And that's fair. You have that right to do that. But like I said, that's where I like the argument because it gets tricky. It's like, well, is he a credible source? Well, a lot of people have put him down and attacked him for his views on Oumuamua and his belief that there may be other intelligent life out there in the universe. How dare he? And then you have other folks like John Mack. He started off very skeptical, looking into the possibility of alien abductions and what's going on psychologically with these people. And then as he interviewed more of them and got more into the research, started to change his views. But he was the head of the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School from 77 to 2004, won the Pulitzer Prize for his book, A Prince of Our Disorder, exploring the author T.E. Lawrence. We mentioned him and then we get emails like, well, he was very problematic in a lot of his approach. It's like, okay, well, again, if you're just looking for titles, it's a pretty good one. And these guys, again, you may not agree with what they did or their approach or their conclusions, but... Yeah. What is your definition of credible? Getting back to what we're talking about is that, okay, so there's no credible sources. Let's look at the people then. We're going to do that. Well, we're going to look at the people. Okay. They exist. You may not like their title or what they studied or their conclusions, but they're real people. Secondly, let's look past the personalities and see what the data is. Right. We can consider the sources, but look at the data and that's getting back to Avi Loeb. Let's look at that. And so your interpretation, if they got the data correct, it's something very extraordinary here. So is that what we have here? I think that's the big question. What have we discovered about this story so far? Well, the reports are saying that advanced radar scans have picked up an extensive underground system, five multi-level structures, geometric passageways, deep cylindrical wells leading to cube-shaped chambers. It sounds like something out of a science fiction movie. And I'm talking good old-fashioned 1950s. Or we can go back to 1927, Metropolis. That's what I'm envisioning down there. Or also the total recall, where there was a giant cavernous structure that was designed by ancient aliens to melt ice that's underground and create steam, therefore create a breathable atmosphere on Mars. And it's half a million or a million years old. Well, guess what? Now we have other folks that are saying like, yeah, they're, well, it depends on who, again, who you believe. The CIA, their Project Stargate, they're saying that there was a civilization on Mars. And some of those images have recently popped up. I think it was Joseph McMonigle was talking about a photo that he apparently had that was of a bone, some kind of funeral that was on Mars. Yeah, I saw that picture. Yeah, I saw that video on Instagram. And now there's a Tic Tac on Mars. So it's all over the place. Yeah. It's a mishmash. And now with you, you put AI in the mix and it's like, well, who to believe? And that was my other big point about this story. It's like, I'm not sure what to believe. Well, yeah, it's getting harder and harder to do. And it's only going to get harder than that. You know, there's a lot of folks that think, you know, and this goes back to actually Nikolai Tesla, not Tesla. The car company has nothing to do with that. The actual original Tesla, who was Croatian inventor, just a genius so far ahead of his time and was doing really amazing experiments and basically got crushed by Thomas Edison, who operated in nefarious ways, but also just very traditional capitalist ways to crush Tesla. But one of the things that Tesla was working on was ways to transmit power wirelessly. And he is one of the original developers of the electric motor and on and on and on. And honestly, I'd like to do a show on him someday. And I think we should do that. But for now, it's enough to know that he was really fascinated with the pyramids, apparently. And so back in the day when he was doing his early research, he thought that the pyramids might be a way to store or transmit wireless energy like he was trying to do, or maybe even generate energy. And that's an idea that has stuck around a long time. And a lot of folks still think that they might be some kind of power generator. And there's a lot of folks that are proponents of that theory that are, I think, just generally interested in it because, like you said, it's far out. It's a creative thing to think about. There's other folks that have latched their or hitched their wagons to it that maybe are suggesting other things about that. For me, it's more about, does this technology exist? Were we better with technology as a younger species than we are now? Just because we've developed metals and we went through the industrial age, that doesn't mean that the things that were being done by humanity prior to now weren't necessarily even more sophisticated for their time than some of the things we're doing at this moment. That goes with the whole, I don't know, I'm not going to call it the Graham Hancock camp, but it is a lot of people who are also archaeologists and scientists who believe during the Younger Dryas period, there was a massive, well, ancient apocalypse, let's say, that there was knowledge. And it's basically our ancestors being as smart as we are now. Now, we like to think that, like, no, they couldn't have been. And again, this is not about- They didn't have the internet. Well, it's not about, like, what color you are or coming here and there. It's basically ancient ancestors having an advanced technology and having a buildup of society that was in many ways more advanced than what we have now, but in different ways. It might not have even had electricity. It might have had electricity, but even without energy, it doesn't mean that it couldn't have been a super sophisticated culture without harnessing electricity. And then something happened, a major catastrophe, a comet, something happened, and it wiped out a lot of that, and we had to start over. And so many of the creation, I don't even say creation, or maybe recreation myth is a better way to say it, of all these cultures that said someone, a stranger, came to their lands and taught them how to do these things again. Right. And if you look at the Egyptians have a story like that. The Peruvians, the South Americans with Viracocha. Yeah. A being coming from over the waters, and I think we're coming out of Lake Titicaca, to give them the knowledge of agriculture and architecture and some of these kind of secret things again. Or Denzel in Book of Eli. There's something that's being stored by somebody who comes to, again, and you could say it's from the stars. And if you ask a lot of the indigenous people, they will say it's the sky people, or the people from the sky, or various gods and this and that. But it's no one centric group, let's say, over another. It's an extraordinary being or somebody that had possessed extraordinary knowledge coming to reseed the spark of civilization again. Right. And so these things were lost. And if you look at some of the other, which aren't too wacky, that this has started over several times again. Right. Maybe call it the matrix thing, where you don't know how many times the matrix has restarted. You just think yours is the best and the brightest and the be-all, end-all. And then if you look at Casey in the 30s was saying like, oh yeah, no, no, there was civilizations like up to like 50,000 years ago. And then another major reshaping or rebirth at 30,000 years ago. And this was continuing. But they were human. But they may have had some help. And so you have all these way out ideas here. And that's where I think people think it gets conspiratorial and it's racist or it's this and that. No, it's junk science. And we're going to have, by the way, we have archaeologists who listen to the show and sometimes they reach out to us. They're like, oh, you were very fair. You were very fair about this. And this one, they're going to be like, what are you talking about? Some of them. Well, listen, no, I'm just, like I said, I just, I'm pondering this without too much prejudice, you could say. I'm just like, let's see what's going on here. And here's maybe my prejudice is I believe it's possible. So that's what I'm coming to say. Is there, is there structures below the pyramids? Well, yes, we're going to take a look at some of them that have been found by more quote unquote credible sources and credible teams with peer reviewed papers and people who want to, want to be trusted more. And they're covered by the Scientific American publication and the Smithsonian magazine. And so that makes them more credible, I guess. Well, maybe so. But it's not like there's nothing that has been discovered under the pyramids that is anomalous using remote sensing techniques. That's already happened. And so that's been established. We just don't know what they are yet. And so no claims have been made. I will say in this story, though, the scale is much more grand and just mind blowing. It's a large claim. It is a very grandiose claim, which I think is, you know, what for me initially was a red flag. And I think it is for a lot of people. It's like, oh, come on. You know, the more grandiose the claim, you know, you get to the whole thing, the quote, whatever. I know. The Sagan, which was not Sagan. It was often attributed to him. Was it Troutzi? Our friend from PSYCOP. Yeah. It's like extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Extraordinary proof. Extraordinary proof, yeah. Whatever, whatever. But, and okay, that's fair. And so, like I said, what's the proof that is being offered here? What are we looking at? Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition. If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of. Or artificial sweeteners do all the heavy lifting. It's basically dessert in disguise. You shouldn't have to choose between tasty and nutritious. And that's what makes Aloha stand out. Aloha protein bars nail the delicious and nutritious. They're USDA organic and made with ingredients that actually grow somewhere. It's their whole taste that grows philosophy. 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This is a job for Indeed's sponsored jobs. This is Jessamy Barker. Thank you for listening to Astonishing Legends. Now let's get back to the show. So there is some acceptable, and it's not that new. I think it was developed in the 50s, something called muon tomography or muography. Does it involve cows? That's muon. Okay. Without the V. Not the organization. The idea, though, is that you could take cosmic ray muons, which are elementary particles, kind of like an electron. And as they pass through solid matter, they will tend to collect more in open spaces or less dense forms. And so when you use that and you could take and make a 2D or 3D model from that, you can get an image. It's much more powerful than x-rays, which are limited in this sense, but kind of the same idea. You're passing rays through solid matter, and the differences in density can be mapped and turned into an image. Here's a simple explanation here. Since muons are less likely to interact, stop, and decay in low-density matter than high-density matter, a larger number of muons will travel through the low-density regions of target objects in comparison to higher-density regions. So if you are labeled to do that, then you can use those differences again to construct an image. So the idea is that, well, let's take that and on a much larger scale, use these on massive structures like the pyramids, where you don't want to start taking them apart brick by brick to see what's underneath. So it's non-invasive, it's non-damaging technology. But even then, I believe the French team had a lot of trouble getting that passed by the Egyptians, because they didn't want anything disturbed. And it's a little bit like with the SAR here, which Scott is going to explain right now. Okay, so where does this story really start? A lot of people are going to think, oh, it started the other day in March of 2025, because that's when we all saw it on the news, that's when it went viral, and that's when everyone started seeing it. By the time this show airs, it will have been about 20 days prior, in theory, that this press conference was held in Italy, right? On March 15th, on the Ides of March, I should say. There was some doubt, though, that the press conference took place at all, and who was there? Maybe it was, as you commented, maybe it was three people, and you just see the tops of the backs of their heads. Yes. Well, you see the fronts of their heads, you see them sitting at tables on the YouTube video. Right. But there are no audience shots, I will say that. But I can't confirm that somebody did film something, and they spoke for two and a half, three hours, I believe, in Italian. Granted, I had to have Google translated to make hide and hair of it. Yeah, so the official press release video also claims that it was live streamed, you could tune in, if there was technical difficulties, the speakers were going to hang around for like another hour to answer questions in case they got hung up. They said there were 900 people could have been in attendance in person, but up to 2,000 total online, maybe. But again, there's no proof of that. Well, it's not stored anywhere, right? Is that the case? Or why are people doubting that this took place at all? Because of the nature of the claims. Right. There you go. So we found a video. This is titled, The Official Press Release, Giza Plateau, Discovery of a Huge City Under the Pyramids. Yes. I guess this is official statement to the public and the press, Italian and international. We are pleased to announce the first results of the team coordinated by Professor Corrado, Balanga, Filippo Biondi, Armando May, and Nicole Ciccolo. I think that's who she's speaking. She is announcing- Yeah, she's like their publicist. She's the one that did the press release saying that the conference was coming. She did that back in early February, I think, about a month prior. Right. And that's like a five-minute statement where she says what's going to happen. Right. And she offers an email address to contact them for a press release, which we, at the time of this recording, had not had time to reach out for an official press release, but they're offering one and an email address. Yes, they are. They are offering to send out the information. And I guess there's a reference to the conference, which they had at the Artemid or Artemide Congress Center with a quote that says, you are more than 900 people. I'm not sure who said this. I think maybe it might have been Corrado. You're more than 900 people, a human tide. And look, if I really say it, reminding you, this is translated from Italian. With a tremor in my voice, if the pre-sales continued, we were at least 2,000 people. So that's a suggestion. There was over 900 people were there and potentially up to 2,000. But the Snopes article sort of implies that maybe it didn't happen at all, or maybe these people weren't there. There's a whole thing that's going on. And we found some quotes in some of our research that indicated that maybe there were 900 people present, up to 2,000 people. If you counted all the people online, they said at the conference, well, if we'd continued our pre-sales, we would have sold out, and then it was sold out. But Snopes is like, we couldn't find anything on the capacity. I don't think they ever even found the video that we found, which is actual video footage of them in Italy giving it. When you look at the room, you know, it's a full house hotel room. Yeah, it's a ballroom kind of setting. And there is a large projection presentation screen, and it says Giza on it. And you can make out the logos of the team in the upper left and upper right. That's them at the tables. Yeah, it does seem like them. Yeah, I see them there. And it's also, I would just say, you know, you and I have been to several podcast conventions, podcast movement. This is as big as their main presentation room, and there's somebody in every chair. Yeah, it looks packed. There are many hundreds of people there. If not, as they said, I could see up to 900. The only reason I know anything about crowd sizes is because when my wife was in the Groundlings Theater, it was a 99-seat theater. By fire code, it couldn't be bigger than 99 seats. And I am telling you, when I look at this, I see at least five or six times how big the Groundlings Theater was in terms of the number of people sitting out there. Oh, of course. And I've, one of my past job incarnations, I worked these types of presentations and set them up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a packed house. And why wouldn't it be, judging by how much buzz this has gotten online? It's an interesting subject. Why wouldn't? Right. And like I said, if it had, even if you went there to debunk it, you would still show up. You know what I'm saying? That's half our audience. They don't believe in any of the crap we say, but they're entertained to hear it. Yeah, which is totally fine. So they're entertained to hear it. But no, you're right. And I think it's good to point out that that is the tone, at least from the Snopes article and a few others, that maybe this thing, you know. Did this even happen? Yeah, maybe it didn't happen. And I found a Facebook posting, but you can't find the video and how many tickets did they really sell? It's a little bit of the putting down in your mind. And maybe they- Yeah, and it's also disappointing because this video wasn't, I mean, it wasn't super easy to find because it's in Italian and whatever, but like, it's not impossible to find it. I'd say it took 10 minutes to find it. Well, here's the other aspect of it. This is actually, I'll give a shout out to my good friend, Ilya. He was actually, I think, the first person to send me a link to this. And he listens to the show and he's- Oh, yes, Ilya. Yeah, I know. I interact with him on socials all the time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he's quite knowledgeable about all this stuff and he's up on the news of what's happening. And he'll say like, hey, Forrest, what do you think about this? And so I get a lot of tips. So yeah, anyway, thank you for putting that in our minds as well. He sent this clip. This is another aspect of this, which is, this is the other part of the story. We're going to get to the specifics of what was purported to have been found in the dimensions and all that stuff. But this is also pretty political in a way and not just in an academic sense, because apparently, and I didn't know this watching it, that one of the main posters of this information, Greg Reese, is controversial himself. And that controversial nature was brought to my attention. And my friend Ilya didn't know this at all, apparently. So it's not like he's purporting one side or political view with this. He just thought it was interesting, like all of us do, or at least we do. And it's like, I don't pay a lot of whole mind. I want to check it out. But apparently, this is from the Snopes article, talking about the, again, the credible news outlets and other scientific publications not having anything to do with this or endorsing it. Quote, rather, this appears to be a spin on already questionable research conducted in 2022 that was subsequently embellished by a variety of right-wing content creators like conspiracy website Infowars, contributor Greg Reese, who publishes the Reese Report, listed as a source for many of the claims pertaining to this topic. Infowars founder and woman conspiracy theorist Alex Jones shared a version of the same claim on X. So take that as you will, but that's already labeled this as a political hot potato of sorts, just because it's connected. Even though nothing that I saw in the Reese Report mentions anything about any of the other Infowars stuff, it's just about this. Well, it's tainted already. So it's just a weird mishmash of views and now politics and archaeology and pseudoscience and pseudo-archeology. And that's why the more I started to wade into this thing, the messier it seems. That's interesting to me. It's like, why are these folks latching onto this? I don't understand that necessarily. I mean, it's, but the whole world is interested in it because it went viral and it's not just going viral with the right or the left. I don't think having an interest in this type of stuff is really a sign of a political bent. Well, I think what's valid about pointing this out is that if Greg Reese is one of the main sources of this news, let's say, on the social media platforms, well, that's interesting. But again, why is that happening? And who's the audience listening to this and running with it? Well, like we know, we have a lot of friends. I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are interested in this type of topic. And they can set aside belief systems and just look at what the story is. And so, but it's interesting because we've come across this before. And I think it's worth pointing out is that if we come across a story that's perhaps spurious or, you know, just, it's got some dodgy aspect to it. We find there's only one source and that source, you know, has been known to put out a bunch of bunk, then I think that's worth looking at. Now, again, going back to my original point, at some point, that's fine to consider that, but you have to look at what's being put on the table here. What's being put on the projection screen in the ballroom? Breakout ballroom A. Yeah, right. So you have to look at what's being offered here. And, you know, if it really was offered, okay, then what is the data? Yeah. And I wasn't aware of that. I mean, the video that I was looking at and I was referring to the audience size and everything, that's actually on Nicole Ciccolo, who I think is their publicist. She's Italian. And her press release that she did in February is overdubbed in English. And she's, you know, bono sera. She's starting off in beautiful language, Italian, beautiful cars too, if I do say so. So that version of it that I'm looking at is an Italian YouTube posting. Yes, yes, translated. So that's where I saw that. But when I saw the articles, you know, it was the Daily Mail and all of that stuff. And then creeping through in the Instagram algorithms. But I don't know where those started. It's too hard, especially when something blows up as big as this did. It's too hard to source the first posting about the press release. But the thing is, they did a press release in February. Which the whole goal of that is to alert the world. And then a month later, they did the conference. It's kind of a press conference with the 900 people in attendance and a couple thousand people online. I guess the assumption I would make is on that day, the word started going like wildfire about what they were claiming. Right, right. And like you said, people from all different walks of life and different bents and different political leanings apparently latched onto it and just started sending it to everybody. And like I said, I know it got sent to me by three people. Of course, that's counting you. You got sent to you. And then I sent it to you. And then Ilya sent it to you. I don't know if anybody else did. But when stuff like this happens, we get that stuff. It's like, have you seen this? Or what do you think about this? What do you guys think about this? You should do a show on this, that kind of thing. So, and that's why we're doing this this week. We actually don't always do topical stuff. We, a lot of times we want to wait till the dust settles, see what the real deal is. But this felt like something we're talking about right now. And I'm glad that we're doing it. It's nothing new really, because as people will say, and again, this is going back to the connection of the Reese Report in putting forth the idea, positing the idea that this is some kind of Giza power plant. And that's ripping off the title here. So a 1998 book by Christopher Dunn made a lot of waves at the time called the Giza power plant technologies of ancient Egypt. And not that he's the first either, because as I think you said earlier, Tesla also believed that there was some kind of connection between the pyramids and earth's natural harmonic frequency resonance and harnessing natural power. Remember the things that I'd heard, and I believe this is true, but the pyramids were actually capped with gold. So they had originally at the top, and that's all kind of worn off. And I'll just, well, if I eventually chipped off, it was there. It's a hard hike, but well worth the chippings of gold. I don't know about that kind of stuff at that time back in 1998, but I'll say when I was a kid and first learning about the pyramids, and I was fascinated, of course, and with Egypt and Egyptology, one of my first thoughts, when you see, it's like, what's inside the pyramids? Come on, there's gotta be something really, really cool inside, right? And then you learn as a kid, like, eh, it's a king's chamber, there's a queen's chamber, there's some, just like two or three tunnels that kind of go up to the center, and then that's about it. And as a kid, like, that doesn't make any sense. That's a lot of wasted space. And I know it's supposed to be a tomb for the king, and they got everybody to chip in. Yeah, it might be done for spiritual reasons. I mean, look at the churches all around the world, they don't double as power plants, you know, these beautiful sanctuaries, Notre Dame, et cetera. Yes, but for different reasons. Now, the point with the cathedrals, as most people know, is that you create a space with a lot of headroom, multiple stories high, because you've done this, Scott, you've walked into a cathedral, it's impressive, and it's meant to be. And it's meant to have a physical and emotional and spiritual impact on you as you are in the presence of God. Almighty God takes up a big space. And so you go in there, and the organ's playing, and it's transformative. Wait, are you saying the pyramids don't do that? Because I would say that they do. If you're walking up on them out there, I would say they're all so, yeah, so what? You're outside, but it's still impressive. And for a different culture, it might evoke all the same things that stepping into a beautiful sanctuary. Right, and I understand the, right, the physical, mechanical aspects of it. Especially covered in gold. Well, the mechanic, yes, the mechanical engineering, but it's not meant for you. You were meant to look at it from the outside, but a lot of people died helping to build, though. No matter how you believe how they were built, it was not a fun project. Although I think they did get free beer and bread. Right. But a lot of lashings as well. So you have this massive thing. And my point is that if you build something that large, it seems, I'm not just, I'm talking about kid logic. It's like, there's got to be more to it. The burial mounds all across the world for important people of their cultures, they're impressive and they're large. They're not that big. You know what I'm saying? It seems like overkill. Yeah. Pun intended. So it just seems like, what else? There's got to be something more to it. And I've always felt that way growing up. It's like, okay, yeah, there's some magical properties. I learned about that, of course, in the, in the late seventies as a kid, like, you know, the, oh, people are claiming this kind of an energy center and razor blades will sharpen on their own when left in the pyramids. And it has all these magical properties. And it's like, okay, I don't know about that, but it's just like, there's got to be more inside to it. It just, there's a lot of dense space. And this is what we're learning now, again, from credible sources is that with the scan pyramid and the Muon topography is that there are recently previously undiscovered large empty spaces, especially in the North part of the Khufu pyramid, I believe that are in there because they can see the large empty spaces within them. And it's like, okay, what's going on there now? There's more to the mystery. That's my point about this as I always suspected, even as a kid. Well, you may be proven to be right in our lifetimes. If they hurry up and get in there, we're not exactly spring chickens, but like I am, I am curious to know what is going on in those chambers. Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition. If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of, or artificial sweeteners do all the heavy lifting. It's basically dessert in disguise. 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So circling back a little bit to the idea, and this is another thing to take, not just from Snopes, but from the multiple articles that had a skeptical counterpoint to the tabloid articles that were like, vast city, amazing. And then all the other people are like, bunk, everyone's arguing about it. One of the things that got latched onto that was that they kept saying it's not peer reviewed. And the interesting thing about that is, yes, the statements that were made as of this recording 10, 15 days ago about the findings are not peer reviewed. But the paper that they wrote and published in 2022 that says some of the things that they said in these findings is peer reviewed. So I want that to be clear. And honestly, I didn't fully understand that myself until Forrest a minute ago was like, wait, can we stop down a second? We need to look into this. Because the truth is, the paper was peer reviewed. So when we look at the paper that was published back in 2022, there's a spot in it where they describe a northern underground complex structure being immediately below the base of the pyramid structure on the north side. And that there's also northern east and northern west underground corridors being mentioned as being connected to descending ramps and located underground. And then an unfinished room noted as being off-axis and located underground in a different area. So they mentioned that in the paper that was peer reviewed. Now, the other thing that we've talked about was the weakness of the peer review process. You get to this whole point, it's like, well, it wasn't peer reviewed. It was peer reviewed. It was peer, you know, it's like a Dr. Seuss, you know, with the sneetches and the stars on their stomachs. But like, is it important for it to be peer reviewed or is it not important? Because the peer review process, it has its flaws. We didn't get into those flaws earlier, but the stuff that came out and actually it was a 2022 article about that, which I don't have here, but I remember what it said. And it was talking about just it takes forever, which stalls scientists and researchers' careers because they're not getting reviewed fast enough. The reviewers aren't getting much for it. They're bored. They don't want to do these jobs anymore. And then the process is getting, there's a little bit of like a puppy mill vibe. It's like, ah, let's get this out the door. Let's get this out the door. And this honestly is one of the things that we touched on. And folks may not have heard it if you're new to the show or you haven't been through our back catalog. We did a series on the Kelly Hopkinsville goblins, which is an amazing, wonderful story that I really enjoyed covering. But in the course of that show, we came across a peer-reviewed paper talking about how it was just a bunch of drunk hillbillies and the reasoning in it was really weak. And we called that out. And that's in fact how we got to be friends with Blake from Monster Talk, who then took that ball and ran with it and started talking about weaknesses in peer review before it became a more public thing. He was ahead of the curve there and he still does that. And so hats off to him on that. But the overall point is it's a way for them to attack it to say, oh, well, this isn't peer-reviewed. And it's true. What they said at their press conference, not peer-reviewed. They would have to submit another scientific paper that has the more precise details from the press conference for peer-review to then be able to say, okay, well, everything we said here actually went into this paper. It's a second paper. It came out in 2025 versus the one in 2022, and that one's now going through the peer review process. Right. And that company that did it is MDPI, the Multidisciplinary Digital Publishing Institute. This is just their description in the first paragraph of their wiki entry here, is a publisher of open-access scientific journals. It publishes over 390 peer-reviewed open-access journals. MDPI is among the largest publishers in the world in terms of journal article output and is the largest publisher of open-access articles. So yeah, not in the back of a comic book, fly by night, mail it in, correspondence course, and you get your stamp on it. However, recently you sent me an article about another problem with a peer-reviewed process, and maybe you can refresh my memory, but it had something to do with, they've caught some errors in it. And it seems like maybe there's some bot-ism, there's some bot action where it's like, wait a second, this should have been caught. And the same mistakes were happening in different papers, and it's like, are somebody having AI do this? Because it just seems like they don't have enough people to do the peer-review and enough processes, and it costs money. So it's just like, ah, let's just run this through an LM. Right. So everything is getting sketchier and sketchier, and that's something that we've talked about, well, I mean, a lot recently. And I'm seeing it every day now with, and you used to make fun of me, because I'd always be like, that's CGI, that's CGI. Yeah, I did say it a lot, but to be fair, I worked in special effects for like 15 years. I know what to look for. I sat in rooms where that crap used to cost $1,500 or $2,000 an hour to make, and there was all, when stuff wasn't right, my clients got mad and we had to fix it. So I know what to look for. That stuff's getting a lot better. And it's all, you know, it's always about the lighting and the shadows and the frame rate and what was the camera doing? Is it following the object or is it leading the object? And there was a huge thing, 500,000 views on Twitter posted yesterday as we record this of something that the guy was like, oh, this looks like the Black Knight satellite over the pyramid, over the Great Pyramids. And I clicked on it, and it's basically a silhouette of Boba Fett's ship up above the Great Pyramid. And then there's still a shine to the cap on the top of the pyramid. It still has a shine on it, like there's still gold or it's shiny. And it's like, okay, it takes about one-tenth of a second to determine that the whole thing is video game footage or something similar, or a very poorly done AI. And then on top of the silhouette of the ship is, it's Boba Fett's ship, which originally, by the way, was called the Slave One. And I guess that was politically incorrect. So now it's called the Fire Spray for you nerds out there. I just called it Boba Fett's ship. But everyone knows that shape, you know, and our lucky friend, friend of mine, Tommy, has one of them. It's the coolest thing in the world. Well, how do you know he wasn't there? Well, you don't. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, that stuff is propagating like crazy. And on some platforms, it's like the quote, a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on or whatever, which people attribute to Churchill. And I looked it up. It wasn't actually Churchill. It was his secretary of, or no, excuse me. It was Franklin Roosevelt's secretary of state, Cordell Hull, who said that originally. And it was, because it's also been attributed to Mark Twain. But apparently, Cordell Hull originally said, a lie will gallop halfway around the world before the truth has time to pull its breeches on. So just for you nerds out there who's like tangents and wanted to know about that. But that's the point, though. Like right now, this stuff is running rampant. And that is why, this brings me to the next thing I wanted to say about this. That's why when you first sent it to me, and also my friends, my friend Tommy sent it to me, and my friend George also sent it to me, I was just like, I just don't know about this. Doesn't feel right. This feels like mystery solved. And that's another thing that we've talked about on the show. Nine times out of 10, something comes out, it says mystery solved. A lot of times, it's about something we've already covered. And it's like, it's not even, almost never is it solved. I can count on one hand the times that it is actually solved. We've had mystery solved on Dyatlov Pass. We've had mystery solved on Amelia Earhart, probably four different times. We've had mystery solved on so many different things. Yeah. You know what? They found the Cotopaxi. They found the Cotopaxi. It was missing. It is one of the ships in the desert at the beginning of Close Encounters. It has been found. It says Cotopaxi on it. And we talked about that. We have an episode on it. So yeah, that is mystery solved. But the first thing that a lot of these, you know, these publications will do is be like, well, we're going to say this. We're going to get the clicks. And all the ads are going to go on this page. And everyone's going to visit it for 10 years. And we're going to make all this money on the click-throughs, as much as $300 to $400, maybe. So, but that's what happens. And so then with this stuff, now we've got AI in the newsrooms. And I think I said to you, Forrest, yesterday, well, they're firing reporters. And they're replacing them with AI. Even the Washington Post is doing that. And I thought, you know, that's not great. But they're trying to cut down money. Their subscription numbers are down. They're not making as much revenue. And so now they can just feed things in with a savvy editor and have that person pretend to be three or four different reporters. I have already found stories myself on the platform formerly known as Twitter with journalists that clearly aren't real people. You click on them. It's a fake picture of a person whose age doesn't match. Like there was some guy who was supposed to have been a journalist for 30 years. And I click on it. It's like a 25-year-old dude with his shirt unbuttoned and a gold chain like he should be driving a Corvette in 1978 holding a champagne glass. I'm like, that's not this guy. And you can tell when you read the articles because they have mistakes in them. So my point is, coming back around, what happens is, and I was wrong, by the way. They're not replacing. It's my understanding. And journalists, you can write in to us if I'm wrong. According to the Columbia School of Journalism, I was just looking at this today, they're not actually replacing them yet. They're using it as a tool to help, I guess, manage the content or revise it or whatever. It's a tool that they're working, and it's not a full-blown replacement, even though lots of people have been laid off. But the thing is, there's now all these apps that, and if you follow AI stuff like I do on Instagram, you get a thousand ads for these too. And there's a bunch of them that are designed to make things go viral. They make stories go viral. They make clips go viral. And so a story like this comes out, and it's like, oh, great. I can turn this into a thing. I can turn this into 10,000 clicks. And that's how that thing caught on fire. And so whenever anything's riding that particular train, I'm wary of it, almost no matter what it says. No, I hear you. I would just argue, not really an argument, just that this is more like- Oh, let's argue. Well, I see your point of that. But when I, conversely, I would say it's not mystery solved, but mystery opened. I don't have a good phrase. Well, yeah. I mean, this is- You know what I'm saying. I'm saying that- Yeah. Mystery solved would be like, oh- Sort of euphemistic in terms of the vibe of it. Not that it's technically solved, but just that it has that same vibe. It's like, hey, look at this. You got to look at this. Look at this. It's amazing. Mystery solved would be, well, they scan. It turned out to be a long buried EV charging station. Well, I wasn't being literal. I wasn't being literal. I was just saying that feeling. I knew what you meant by the vibe of it with something like that. I take it to mean something else when I see something. Well, here's the other thing, talking about clickbait. It's like, what's the old chestnut, Amelia Earhart? It's like, mystery solved. It's like, okay. Dyatlov passed. Mystery solved. It's like, let's look at this. Okay. It's just going back to infrasound, or it's just going back to a freckle cream jar that's on, with a bunch of junk on some island. It's like, that's nothing new. So then, okay. Getting back to it, it's like, what is new here? What is newer from 2022 as to the discovery now? What has happened then? Do you have some scale? Because you can hear about that. You think like, oh, okay. So they found, what's some tubes? I mean, it doesn't have to be a whole lot. I remember it like, oh boy, this is one of the first things that got me back interested. And even before we started to do the podcast, but this would be pre or maybe early 2000s, I think, where they found a very long square channel, or not a really, I guess it's a tunnel, but it's square. And I thought like, oh, is this a vent shaft? What is it? Because that was previously unknown or undiscovered. And then finally, they were able to get, with the early 2000s technology, I think, a- They sent a robot down the tube. Yeah, a wheeled robot with a camera, and they get to the end of this thing, and it's possibly long. It's locked off, right? So how would you build that into it? It's kind of hard to imagine how you would chisel that out, or channel that out, or build around it to create that. And they get to the end of it, and it's a door, it's blocked off. And here's the crazy thing. There's two, what look like metal handles on the inside. Like, who would, you can't reach down that far. It was like 40, 60 feet, something like that, just off the top of my head. So did you hook something on that? Is it a plug? Like, what is that thing? Because it obviously had some purpose, it would be very hard to build into that, so it was important. So what is that thing? Well, they don't know. And that's the last I heard of it, that they were going to try and drill through it and put a camera through to the other side, and maybe they did and didn't see, could not see much for that vantage point. Well, yeah, and they're very protective. Egypt's very protective about those processes, and I fully believe that they operate a lot of times in secrecy, so they can decide how to deal with what they find. I feel like when they sent that robot down that tube, they already knew it was a dead end and it would be an enigma that would be intriguing but not provide an answer until they could control the answer. And I don't mean this in a fascist way. I think they just like to control the message they are dealing with historical. And at that time, I think it was still Zai Hawass was the master of antiquities there or whatever and was in charge of that stuff, which he no longer is. But he's still clearly involved because he comes up in this story. Yeah, he's kind of an emeritus status at this point and a renowned figure. And I personally like just him as a figure. He's a very charming guy. Very charming guy. He's fun to watch and knows his stuff. But yes, they keep it very close to the vest. But my point being is just a door with metal handles at the end of this long shoot is, that is the mystery. That is intriguing enough. You know, sure, I would like to know what's on the other side of it, but that is enough for me to want more inquiry into it. But back to your point about things being solved. So when you see this story, the point being is that, yeah, there's a shaft and it's 40 feet tall. Well, that's kind of weird. And then you see the purported, I will state that, scale of the structures. And I think if you haven't already, it's probably time, we're way past due, to describe the dimensions of the objects found in it. Because now we are talking about total recall and the massive thermal spikes that go down into the ice crust. This thing is massively long underneath. So one of the things you could say like, okay, well, a 40 foot long square shaft with a metal door at the end of it is intriguing. And earlier I may have said topography, muon topography, I meant muon tomography, but that alone is worthy of further study and intrigue and interest. But when you get a sense of the scale of what's purported to be underneath the pyramid, that's the part that's mind blowing. But who is behind this? Talk about the people. Right. So we've mentioned him a few times. We should start with Professor Corrado Malanga. He is from the University of Pisa in Italy. He's a researcher there. He, I believe, is now retired. He was the chair of organic chemistry there. And he taught there for 35 years. He's published over 50 works in international chemistry journals. And I believe that it said that he was involved in quantum biological chemistry or something like, I can't remember. It's hard to find stuff because it's all in Italian on him. But he is a real legitimate academic who's been working in the university system for a very long time. Now, here's another note about Professor Malanga. And honestly, if you follow our show at all, even if you don't recognize his name, you will immediately recognize his face because he is prominent in UFO research. So if you've seen UFO videos or you watch any UFO stuff on TV, this guy's face comes up a lot. As soon as I saw him, I was like, oh, yeah, this guy is somebody that I recognized immediately, even though I wasn't super familiar with his name. So there you go. He's got an interest in UFOs. Does that mean he's maligned by mainstream science? Yes. I'm going to go with yes. That probably means that. They're going to look down their nose at anything that comes out of his mouth. Now, there are people that consider him, though, a type of visionary for his theoretical research. He's very open-minded. So you get into that whole thing where it's like, well, what are we dealing with here? It's like, well, Michio Kaku can do this and talk about crazy things. Or we can talk about this. Or we can talk about that. And I'm like, yeah, well, the other thing he does is he studies abductions. He's an expert in abductions, which gets back to John Mack, as somebody that Forrest mentioned earlier. This obviously labels you a certain kind of researcher. And, you know, so I'm like, well, yeah, OK, it's funny. Because even me, when I look at this, it's like, ah, well, all right. So we got this guy. He's talking about all this crazy stuff under the pyramids. He's super into UFOs and abductions and also the holographic universe. He's studying that now. Science, consciousness, and self-awareness. And it's funny. When I see it all that way and I'm trying to think of him as a professor, I'm just like, I don't know. This is a little out there. I don't know if I can. And then I'm like, oh, wait, I'm into four out of five of these things. Wait, what's the one that you're not into? I mean, hey, we've had Terry Lovelace on. He makes me believe in abduction. We have obviously talked a lot about UAP over the years. The tic-tac makes me believe in UFOs. The holographic universe, I don't know a whole lot about that. I do want to cover it. But every article I read about that, that is somewhat academic in nature, indicates that they keep finding more and more things that seems like it's real, including clips from Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about. I think I saw a clip from him yesterday about it on some talk show. And of course, it's Colbert or somebody who was like, tell me about the holographic universe. That's not real, right? And the first thing out of Neil deGrasse Tyson's mouth was like, I wish I could argue against that. Right, right. And he can't. So that's what you think about. OK, how am I going to label this person? How am I going to package this person? I want to talk about the other two people here, too. But I do want to circle back to this in a minute, is the cultural perception of these kinds of studies in Italy? Is it different from America? I don't know. I've not been to Italy. I wish I have. I have lots of rich friends that have been there. I'm unable to attend myself. But I do think that culturally, it's more open to these kinds of things and this kind of research. And it doesn't necessarily brand you a complete nutcase, which is kind of what happens to you in the US when you have to go out on a limb a certain way here to maintain your respect from your community and from other academics. The two other people involved with this study, and this is, again, they're connected to the original paper in 2022 and also the press conference from 2025, is Armando May or Armando May. He is identified as a self-taught Egyptology expert, a journalist. He's from Naples. He was born in 1967. He's been researching Egypt since 2002. And then we have Professor Filippo Biondi of the University in, help me out here in Scotland, Strathclyde. I'm sure I'm saying that wrong. Well, you put a little accent on it. I'm sure that makes it more writer. I don't know. I didn't know why I didn't put it. If I did, I don't even know what the accent is. But it's Strath, S-T-R-A-T-H, and then Clyde, like a Clydesdale, in Scotland. And he is described as an S-satellite technology specialist. And I had to look there. I was like, is that a typo? That's the surveillance band that the S-satellites have. And he also specializes in synthetic aperture radar, or SAR, which is part of the technique they used. And he developed the Doppler tomography, speaking of tomography, methodology that these guys used to do this analysis in 2022. Now, I did want to say, and this is interesting to me, when I looked up, you know, just trying to find out anything about S-band satellite, I found a cool website called Jacopo's Lair. We'll put the URL in our show notes. It's actually a-centauri.com. But he talks about the S-band here. He says, a portion of the electromagnetic spectrum from 2 to 4 gigahertz. It can be very diverse in nature. Some satellites broadcast the entire time over the entire globe. Others downlink their data only over a specific ground station called a dump. Others still are active only over part of the world. And some are so very far away that very large dishes are required for reception. Instrument payloads for these are very diverse, include imagery, very high-resolution cameras, precise altimeters, sun observatories, magnetometers, and many more. Some are military. Others are commercial or research. He adds, you are not tied to Earth orbit anymore with many lunar orbiting satellites transmitting telemetry or carriers on the S-band. And so it explains how, and then it gets into a bunch of technical information about how they work. It's not something I had heard of prior to researching this. But Professor Biondi is an expert in this. So these three researchers led the CAFRA project. They used synthetic aperture radar technology, SAR, and Doppler tomography methodology, which Biondi, I think, kind of developed, to claim the discovery of a vast underground city and structures beneath the pyramid of CAFRA and the wider Giza Plateau. So in this press conference, they talked about what they found. Just to come back around on that here for a second, Forrest, I think you were going to ask about that. It's a vast network of structures, according to them, rooms and corridors, directly beneath the Giza Plateau. Essentially a city, theorized to extend for a significant distance. One claim suggesting it stretches more than 6,500 feet directly under the pyramids. There's eight large vertical cylinder-shaped structures referred to as shafts. They're estimated to be at least 2,100 feet deep, potentially could extend to at least one kilometer beneath each of the Great Pyramids, supposedly serving as access points. The vertical shafts are said to be surrounded by spiral pathways that connect to other structures, and they claim to have found two 80-meter cube-shaped structures connected to the spiral pathways. Above these deeper structures, they detected five multilevel structures connected by passageways. Five small room-like structures were allegedly located inside the Pyramid of CAFRA using SAR technology as well. The overall size of the complex is claimed to be comparable in size to the pyramids themselves, and even ten times larger than the pyramids, according to one statement. The layout and characteristics of the chambers are said to have, quote, a remarkably strong correlation with the legendary halls of Amenti as described in ancient myths. Come back to that in a second. This includes the possibility of the fabled Hall of Records, which was a term originally coined by Edgar Cayce, another subject that we've covered on our show, and we'll come back to that in a second. Right. But this was reportedly made using synthetic aperture radar technology combined with Doppler tomography methodology that converts photonic radar information into phonic signals or vibrational data, and that's claimed to enable the exploration of deeply buried structures without physical excavation. So that's supposed to be at the root of this, and this technology is part of what people are saying. I don't know. I don't know if this works. I don't know if that's real. Right. You know. Untested by not enough. Can we prove it? Yeah. Folks, so far. From my memory in reading the Edgar Cayce books, though, I believe what he said, at least pertaining to knowledge, was that eventually, someday, an Atlantean, folks from Atlantis, escaping Atlantis, buried a storehouse of knowledge under the paw of the Sphinx. Right. And I can't remember, but that's well known. You can look at it. Yeah. And he said Atlantis was destroyed in 10,500 BC, and the refugees brought civilization to Egypt, built the Great Pyramid, and the Sphinx within the following century, and that this hall laid somewhere between the Sphinx and the Nile River with an entrance near the Sphinx's right paw. There you go. So, right. It's a storehouse of knowledge of all their collected things. There are a few of those scattered throughout the world. Might be the Himalayas, the Basque Country. Take your conspiratorial pick. Yes. Your Graham Hancock pick. But that time period also, I think, lines up with that cataclysmic date or era of the younger Dryas, and there's going to be a geologist who's going to write and correct us, or not even bother and just say, I can't help these guys. They left. They turned this off like 15 minutes ago. I can't do anything like this. But the idea, though, is that there is thinking that's advanced that is buried under there for a reason. What if they finally opened it up, and when you got in there, it was the instructions on how to make a synthetic aperture radar? With this Doppler tomography built into it. It's like, oh, what? All that's in here is a thing that's telling me how to find what's in here. And you're saying, you know, that's the trickster. Well, that is. Yeah. Well, there is a theory that if aliens and what we're seeing in the skies are us in the future, and we have captured their craft, really, now you're in that knowledge discovery loop of the Tesseract from Interstellar, in that we are reverse engineering our own technology, which spurs the future technology. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's like we've got a craft from Earthlings from the future, but they only knew how to build it because we discovered their craft from the future. Right. And then we just keep going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, and we get super advanced without having to really go that far down the timeline because we're just looping back each time. Oh, this is really cool. I'm going back 30 years. Oh, this is really cool. I'm going back 30 years. You just keep doing it. And then it only takes 30 years to get really amazing. And then is there a, I guess, is there advancement? So now this is getting too philosophical. Yeah, we got to be careful. It's like in Looper when Bruce Willis shuts them down when they start talking about the time travel paradoxes. He's like, we're not going to talk about that right now. And it's like, you could just see them. They were like, we don't need that in this script. Right. Raise your hand if you want your nails to look perfect all the time. Me too. I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle from Olive and June. And this is exactly why we created the Manny System. 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If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI-native ERP solution that consolidates, migrates, and automates all in one place. Learn more at Intuit.com slash ERP. Forrest and Scott, thank you for supporting their sponsors. I'm Christopher Vignol. Now, back to the show. Just while we're here real quick, and before we get too far away from it, I did want to mention the halls of a mentee, which people were suggesting, oh, maybe this is connected to that. There's a couple of places to look up information about this, but I'm looking actually at a website called startmotionmedia.com. There's an entry here by Miriam Shandi, the editor-in-chief, where she talks about the halls of a mentee. And she says, what are they really? So, she gets into the fact that these are esoteric legends of the halls. And this is from December of 2024 that she posted this. According to the Emerald Tablets, which despite their name, are not your typical kitchen countertops, the halls of a mentee serve as a mystical domain housing the universe's most profound secrets. It is as the cosmos's own Google, but with fewer ads. So, she's saying some funny stuff about that here. It's actually hard to find stuff on this. Another place where there's much more information is from the McClintock and Strong Biblical Cyclopedia, which, by the way, is a huge, like, I don't know, 12-book set or something. You can find it online for $1,500 in some places. Written by all various experts back at, I think, in the late 1800s. I don't know. It doesn't really matter. But here is what it says about a mentee. A mentee, which means the hidden in Egyptian mythology, was the general name of the underworld. So, this is a different take on this. Or Hades, including the lower heaven or fields of peace with its 21 gates. Kerneter, which means the good place. Sound familiar, like a TV show. Rustah, or purgatory. And hell. It was under the special governance of the setting sun as Osiris Rotamente, the judge of the souls of the dead, of Horus and the funeral deities. The great hall of the two truths were there, and in it the examination of the soul of the deceased took place. There were also the 15 gates of the house of Osiris and the 14 abodes of hell. A mentee had its rivers both of separation and punishment, in that respect resembling the Hades of Greek mythology, which was doubtless copied from it. It is fully described in the great collection of funeral rituals called Ritual of the Dead, and it was often spoken of as the country of the words of truth and the happy land of Osiris. Owing to the graves of the Egyptians being mostly excavated in the mountains on the western bank of the Nile, the terms land of the west and the hidden land became synonymous, and the present name of the village ermit is derived from that one of the chief cities near the ancient necropolis. So, fascinating, this is a very spiritual, mystical place that has to do with life and death in hell. Also, though, is it a collection of knowledge, or spiritual knowledge, the esoteric kind of knowledge, the sort of thing that the Vatican's keeping in its basement and won't show it to anybody? We don't know. But that's another implication about what could be below the Great Pyramids, regardless of what these folks think they may or may not have found, if their technology is right or wrong. Now, that lore predates, obviously, their 2022 paper and their 2025 press conference. But it is fascinating, and it's those kinds of things that people are expecting to find that plant the seeds for confirmation bias about, what are we finding? What are we looking at? Oh, my God, we found it. We found El Dorado. It's under the pyramids. So, that's another thing to consider when you look at what's happening here in terms of revealing the information. But still, it's pretty fascinating. Well, yes. So, a storehouse of knowledge, we've got Joseph P. Farrell, who's the gentleman who wrote the books about the Nazi bell. Oh, yes. But what he had said there, I think that one of his main ideas that we found fascinating is that apparently he said he claimed to have found evidence that the Germans were working on a large Junker plane that could travel from Germany to New York specifically to drop a Nazi bell, some kind of a nuclear weapon that they were working on. And they do know that they were working on something. And here's a little anecdote. I think I've told this story before, but one of the tales of my grandfather would say that, you know, during World War II, for a brief time, he was in charge of some German prisoners, and there was an officer there who spoke English very well. And my grandfather liked to talk to anybody, even German prisoners, mostly folks outside of the restaurant as we were all trying to go home after a meal. But he would start asking this guy, they started conversing. The German officer told him that, well, you know, you may have won this battle, but we're developing a weapon that will soon win the whole war. And he didn't say weapons. He said a weapon. That could have been the heavy Gustav, though, that giant, crazy cannon thing, right? That they never fired. Well, I think what they were talking about is what we know is that, no, they were working on a nuclear weapon. Yeah. And that certainly shortened the war for us and the Japanese over three days. But the bell wasn't just necessarily a nuclear weapon. It might have offered the chance to warp time. Well, that's another part of this is that, in the end, you can connect all this way out woo-woo stuff to the pyramids and the Nazi bell and the D-Glaka. And then, you know what I'm saying? It's all kind of connected in a way, theoretically. And it's all bunk and pseudoscience. Well, my grandfather said, well, what did you say to the German officer? He said, very much my grandfather, he said, well, that might be true, but you're in here now. So he's a very practical kind of guy. It's like, yeah, but you're still a prisoner here. And he threw a goose in there and he was trying to tell them like, okay, I'm going to come back with some firewood so you can cook the goose. And of course, they didn't really understand him. And by the time he found some firewood and came back, they had already eaten the goose raw. They were that hungry. So just a little life during wartime. But getting back to my point is that Joseph P. Farrell was positing in his book, the Giza Death Star, perhaps the pyramids were used as a scalar weapon or a directed energy weapon, which then goes back to Tesla and his death ray plans. And the weird fact that the person who was in charge of collecting and interpreting all of Tesla's, there's, I can't remember off the top of my head, over 20 trunks, maybe 60 trunks and only 20 were recovered or known. So there's a lot of missing trunks of his research. The scientist in charge of interpreting all that was Donald Trump's uncle. It's weird stuff. History's full of weird stuff. So, but yeah, you can connect Tesla, you can connect the pyramids to this, to weapons or energy production. I have a practical question. How do you aim a death ray that shoots out of a pyramid, right? Do you get the enemy to just fly directly over the point, the apex? Or do you, how does that work? Go over here. No, move over. Over here. Over here. All right. Turn it on. Turn it on. See, now you're using your little brain, Scott. Okay. The thing about this stuff is that, yeah, you're thinking like, well, like I did when I was a kid, is that the weapon comes out of the top of it, like the pyramid in Las Vegas, the Luxor. No, the idea is that this thing generates power. Now this also goes back to, well. Or maybe it's more like an EMP. What Casey had said was translated to him. Again, he said, he claimed he wasn't making this up. He's getting this information from his higher sources. We did a series on Casey too. C-A-Y-C-E. Look it up. Is that the Atlanteans had centralized power sources. So these would open up a turn on, which would power their transmedium ships, which could fly through the air or go under the water. Well, what have we been seeing lately? Like I said, the idea was that it is kind of brilliant. You have this main power source, which generates other machinery, but like with Tesla, wirelessly. Yeah. So the idea with Tesla is that, and he could prove this, is that with one of his power towers there in New Jersey, Tower of Power, which reminds me of a Frank Zappa song, is that you could turn this thing on and then you have an antenna on your car, and it's an electrical car, but it's receiving power and able to drive just through the transmission and the capturing of this energy with the antenna on your car. By the way, folks, if you haven't seen the movie, The Prestige, look for that. That's a great movie. Yeah, it's pretty good. But then people counter that and would say like, okay, yeah, you could have this wireless transmission of energy because that's the next evolutionary step is you don't need wires. Right. Alan Watt said that about our brains and the neurotransmitter link or whatever is that we go from a wired age in the industrial age to a wireless. And then the next step beyond the wireless is the telepathic. But in this case, you could say an argument against that is that, okay, you could have all that, but then we wouldn't get very good or any television or radio reception because the airwaves would be so filled with static, you couldn't control it. So who knows? But anyway, I'm just making a point. This is all kind of connected and these are big way out woo-woo ideas, but that may all change when something else is proven or found out. So of course, what I'm hoping for is that they actually find some giant crystal that is acting like a hard drive and has all the knowledge of the Atlanteans in it. Now, the reality of that is that if that ever is found, we probably won't ever get to know about it. Well, one of the things I do want to talk about is the counterpoints to the statements. The paper is interesting. The science is interesting. We did some research into it and I just will quickly say, you know, I'd written up some stuff explaining how they did the tomography, the Doppler tomography, and it has to do with light converting to sound and measuring that. And the interesting thing about tomography, we're throwing that word around a lot, is it's really just a combination of multiple methods from multiple angles. You get all the data from different devices and then you layer it all together and you get it in a 3D sense. And then when you start laying it together, you can figure out where shapes are or what kind of things you're looking at. So it's like having three or four or five different forms of radar. And the component here that was really sophisticated was the satellite stuff, which is why Biondi was so important because he was an expert in that. So these satellites are going over and the satellites, and I think this is something that he pioneered, are able to essentially pretend to be a much bigger antenna than they really are. Even though they're a singular unit, what happens is, and I guess they're using software to do this, they're collecting data from multiple angles, possibly on multiple passes when they go over or maybe they can be repositioned depending on what kind of satellites they are. And so in that way, they mimic a huge antenna that can collect a lot of data, even though they're just one device. And it's kind of like, Forrest and I were talking about this offline, but if you watch Skinwalker Ranch, when they take a drone up and it flies all over the place and then they stitch a thousand pictures together, it's like a thousand drones took one picture. It was my assessment that that was kind of the same idea with the satellite component of this. Or is it like Batman using like 10,000 phones, smartphones to paint off each other, and then he gets a sonographic image. Right. Is that you're able to, the idea though, is that you're sort of crowdsourcing data sensor to form an image, like individual pixels, but you put them all together and it makes the fuller picture. Right. And then you combine that with the other data you're getting from other, you know, preexisting methodologies and you, and you put it all together and, you know, eventually you're essentially exposing your film in lots of different ways to get an image without, in a non-destructive way. And the really fascinating thing about this is folks, and we, we have a link to the paper. You can find the paper online from 2022. It has a lot of full color imagery in it. And it also has a lot of math formulas that look like something from a beautiful mind and a lot of text that I could not understand, but I understand the pictures. And I'm telling you, when you look at the pictures, it's fascinating because you can see how they're layering everything together and they're explaining it in the paper. And what's interesting to me is that they have a control group because there are structures within the pyramids that they know, or we already know that, that are there. There's an, actually a vertical structure within the pyramid, which everyone has seen. If you look at any YouTube video, it's down inside there in the middle that almost has a kind of pagoda shape to it. It's a stacked vertical structure. And they have used this methodology to identify that. So when they do that, you get a sense of what you will see when you apply that process to something that we know does exist. So then if you're seeing an object in another place, you can say, well, here's my control. My control is that I know this object inside the pyramid exists. What is this over here that I haven't identified visually or in any other way, but it's giving me the same kind of signatures. That's compelling. And I mean, even to a layman, an idiot like me, and I'll go ahead and say it, that paper is complex and you have to understand a lot of things and go to school forever and be one of these folks to, and of course it can still have errors in it. And that's the whole idea of peer review. We need other people to look at it. But when I look at it, I say, well, this is a system that clearly works in these cases. And yes, could there be false images? Could there be flaws in the formulas that maybe produce artifacts of things that aren't there? Yes, but it was more compelling to me than I expected it to be based on the nature of the headlines that this story wrote in on. Right. Now, to recap and be clear, what you're saying is that there really is a paper. It has real scientific ideas in it. I mean, as far as I can tell. Gobbledygook, scientific gobbledygook, that somebody's looked at this. It's a, you know, it reminds me of so many, well, a few things. One is the Peruvian space mummies, the space cake mummies. Yes. And that what we got back is a lot of CT scan data that's really dense. And if, well, you want a, you want a dense rabbit hole to go down, look at the people responding who say there are CT scan experts and just like, well, you really needed a better machine and what they are using and they didn't use these correct settings and it gets really technical and really dense. And that is similar to this. It's what you're saying is that we capture something. Initially, the images look anomalous or are of something anomalous. Right. But we're not really trusting the way that the information was gathered or could have been gathered in a better way. And so we must reserve judgment and conclude these are made out of cake until we know that these aren't pastiche, put together bones of other Peruvian mummies, blah, blah, blah. And so then what you have here is that, like I said, real paper, real data, but somebody really technical. And again, I guess the peers who would review would say, okay, how about this? We're now on board with the way that the data was collected. Could have been better, but we are okay with the process, but we're not okay with the conclusions. I think they would need to be, again, as they say, what science wants is reproducibility and you get the same results. So they'd need to task those satellites, take them somewhere else, film something where they know that something's there so they can say, all right, this is how it works when we're definitively identifying something and compare that to the other results, maybe do it again over the pyramids and see if they get the same things and if they agree with the conclusions. And if they do all those things, which of course would take years. And obviously somebody that's got access to the satellites like Biondi does or however that works and they do all that stuff. And then, you know, five years from now, they say, you know what, there is something there because the other thing that's not going to happen is Egypt is not going to let anybody dig down 2,000, 4,000 feet under the pyramids anytime soon. Maybe they already have. So this is unverifiable in a conspiracy kind of way. You could say whatever you want is down there. They're not going to dig, not that far down. They're not going under the pyramids. Yeah, non-destructive. That's why they're allowing. Reluctantly, Egypt is allowing some non-destructive sensing data, right? Because you're not disturbing anything. That NOVA program on PBS had, I think it was the, I think it was a scan pyramid project with the French team. What was fascinating about that is, yeah, I think there were muons, maybe neutrinos, tachyons, take your pick. But the idea was that these parts, these, right, these cosmic ray particles that go all the way through the earth, well, they get stopped up in denser parts, as we explained in the earlier part of the episode here. And then what they would have are essentially like photographic negative plates that they stationed around the pyramid. And so as it passed through, it would collect, and then you get kind of a dot matrix image of the density of the pyramid and which parts are more denser than others. And that's where they discovered that empty chamber, heretofore unknown. There's a doorway entrance, curiously enough, that's kind of like what, a quarter of the way up the pyramid. It seems like a hard climb for it to put a door. But there's a, they detected an empty space. Now, I don't know if they had actually yet gone into that or let them explore, but they know it's there. That's what I'm saying about this. If you think this is all baloney, well, there is some more acceptable and accepted and credible, quote unquote, studies done on this where they have agreed that there is something there. And so what happens as these particles pass, they get exposed onto these plates, which had to be adjusted for, I think the, basically the spin and curve of the earth. It was very technical, but they had to figure all that math out so that you were getting a stable image onto the receiving plates that were receiving these atomic particles to form this image. And so that's how they know like, okay, this is a less dense than the other parts of the pyramid and not where we expected. There is something there, but that took a long time to get them to approve. They almost didn't. I'm talking about the Egyptian antiquities department, whoever's in charge of that over there, because it's like, we don't know what you're doing really. And we don't want you messing around. And what you discover though, is that to me is a pattern that is indicative or calls back to thematically of other storehouses of knowledge. And now I think about Oak Island and the different levels and the 90 foot stone and the different chambers. And also that led to Enoch's supposed nine chambers, Enoch from the Bible, who had the well or the nine chambers of rooms. And each one, I think had a different aspect of lost knowledge or knowledge from God about architecture or, you know, knowledge from the angels about cultivation and animal husbandry and architecture. And as you get down at the bottom was the Holy of Holies. And that's the golden triangle that had the name of God on it, which you said was Fred. I remember you talking about way back in Oak Island. Yeah. So, but that's the idea is that it's a step chamber in this. Again, this is all speculative until we get in there. And that's not really going to happen. Which brings me to Dr. Zahi Hawass, who we brought up before. This is a guy that is the former master of antiquities, I believe was his title in Egypt. And when Forrest and I were younger, well, it's not even that long ago. I mean, to us, back when we started the show, even, I think he was still on TV. You would see him if you watched anything on the Discovery Channel or anywhere else about. There was a great special. I taped it on VHS. Oh, look at that. I can't remember who the host was, but it was, I made sure to tune in. I set my VCR plus code while I was at work and I taped it. And it was a great, kind of a long special because they had just made a discovery where it, this is not the one where, I don't know if it's the guy's donkey stepped in a hole and that might be, that was something else. But basically they found this chamber, it went down. Yeah. And it was a network of these tunnels, like a, like a spokes in a wheel. But they had found the tomb of Osiris and it's a ceremonial tomb, but it had water in it. And the first thought was like, oh my gosh, that is like 5,000 year old standing water. Right. Don't drink it. But there were other chambers. And I just remember him saying like, like, this is phenomenal. And he's like, well, yes, you know, but it's going to take decades, maybe 30, 50 years to really, because they got to go through with their paint brushes and examine it a little bit. I felt like, can we just skip to the, just go down the hallway. Yeah. Hurry up. Hurry up. Move the artifacts aside, find out what these are. 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I'm Mr. Welch, and this is one of my very good friends from Los Angeles, and we don't talk so much anymore because I don't live there anymore, but he's from Cairo, and he knew Dr. Hawass. He was like, you've got to come with me, Scott. I will take you. I'll take you to the pyramids. And he's like, I'll take you to places the tourists don't go. And I was like, why didn't I do that? But I do want to read this article from Dr. Hawass about this particular release. And this came out on the 22nd, which is four days prior to when we're recording this right now. And this is directly translated from Arabic, so it's going to be a little bit clunky. Egyptian archaeologist Dr. Zahi Hawass denied the reports of the presence of columns under the Pyramid of King Khafra. He said in a press release Saturday, these are lies issued by some non-specialists in ancient Egyptian civilization and the history of the pyramids. He emphasized that the Supreme Council of Archaeology did not give these people any statements to do any work within the Pyramid of King Khafra. He said no radar devices were used inside the Pyramid, and everything that was said about the presence of columns at the bottom of the Pyramid has no basis, and there is no scientific evidence to support these words, and there are no missions operating in the Pyramid of King Khafra now. Hawass added that the base of King Khafra's Pyramid was carved from the rock about eight meters high, and there are no columns below this base, according to scientific studies and research carried out around the Pyramid in recent years. He pointed out that, quote, what was said is an attempt to undermine the ancient Egyptian civilization, which is a failed attempt, and these rumors will go to the dustbin of history, end quote. Huh. Well, not a fan. He's not a fan. Okay. Not a big fan. I could have guessed that. Just quickly, in another source, he called it completely wrong and fake news. Hmm. Okay. But, you know, to the point that, and again, I'm out of my depth here, but to the point where he said they didn't use radar inside the Pyramid, that's false, it's like, they're not saying they did. Right. They did this from space. Yeah. Yeah, and far away, so you can't keep a radar from going inside of something. So, I mean, you can, but, like, that's, I mean, he's saying nobody was on site, so. Yeah. No, listen. But, I mean, but I could see his point of view, and I respect the fact that he is Egyptian, and he represents the Egyptian people and the Egyptian culture, and he's not into this. Because, again, their attitude is, and this is just me from having years of watched him and read stuff from him, is, you know, it's their own thing, and they want to own it. And they very reluctantly let anybody outside of Egypt, not Egyptians, go there and poke around. That's why he's saying the French team had such a tough time. And then the other part of me would say, like, okay, well, listen, not that you need any help, but, like, if somebody has a good idea, and they're not going to hurt anything, why not let them in there? Unless you're afraid of finding out something that destroys the narrative you want to believe in. Right. And I'm not saying that narrative is wrong, or that there's something else that they should be afraid of. I'm just saying that sometimes you like to keep things the way they are. And I always remember your phrase, I think, when we talked about, well, pretty much anything, Kincaid's Cave, all these discoveries, and the phrase, you know, the episodes we did on giants. And you're like, you know, the phrase, they're going to have to rewrite the history books. And you're like, what's the big deal? Just rewrite the history books. Who keeps talking about history books? Who cares? And it's like, it's not the books themselves. They've been rewritten a lot, though. Well, the thing is, it's what you have behind it is a belief system and ego. Yeah. And you have a narrative. And I hate to keep bringing up that word, but the more the years pass here, and the more we do this show, the more I've come to believe, or just notice, and try to pay attention to, is the competing narratives of everything. Right. I'm not telling you, I'm behind any one particular narrative, but that everybody's pushing their story and they want to keep it that way. And so, yeah, they don't want to find any giant bones. Right. In fact, there was just a story that we were researching this of another discovery of bones. And then, you know, you go back to the same old things that the Smithsonian had a, they had a barge full of like strange biological artifacts. No, you can't say that about them. That's a credible source. The Smithsonian's a credible source. Well, were they in the turn of the century in the late 1800s, early 1900s? They took all the Kincaid stuff and hit it, right? That is, you know, and I thought that was kind of silly at the time. We covered that a while back too. And so did our friends at Graveyard Tales. Just did it. I'm sure it's great. So look at that too. Yeah. No, I thought like, I don't know about that, you know, burning a barge full of stuff. And then it just keeps coming up. It's like little tidbits of like, yeah, that may have happened. Right. So, but that's my point is that it's just like, let's not rock the boat. Let's just keep it the way it is because we're invested in this and we're part of this. Whereas if we discover something else, then we're not part of this. Right. And it gets very cultural and it's all about the peoples and them wanting to hold onto what they have. That's why you have a controversy with the Kennewick Man and the Lovelock Giants and people's own stories and their own mythology conflicting. Now, now you have indigenous people saying like, yeah, we did chase these giants in the Lovelock Cave and they were, they were killing us and terrifying us. So we had enough. We chased them in the cave, let the entrance of the cave on fire, killed them all. That's the indigenous story. Then you have Western Europeans, white folks saying like, nah, nah, nah, nah, that's, nah, that's, that's cute, but no. My point is like, I want to know the truth no matter where it leads and it's going to be uncomfortable. Truth often is. This is something that I know you wanted to bring up. And I did want to mention here as we're getting towards the end of the episode, we did find an article from the Smithsonian called scientists are investigating a puzzling underground anomaly near the Giza pyramids. This was published in 2024, just roughly about a year ago, based on studies done in 22 and 23, I think. And what this talks about is a discovery made by researchers from Higashi Nippon International University and Tohoku University in Japan and the National Research Institute of Astronomy and Geophysics in Egypt. So this was done in cooperation with Egypt and they identified an anomaly located in a previously unexamined vacant area without any noteworthy above ground features within the ancient necropolis neighboring the great pyramid of Khufu in Giza. This area is part of the Western Cemetery and they used non-intrusive imaging technologies, specifically ground penetrating radar or GPR and electrical resistive tomography. There's tomography again. To scan the site instead of traditional excavation. This is different from the synthetic aperture radar technology used by Malanga and Biondi that we've been talking about tonight. Now, the nature of this anomaly was that the scans revealed a shallow L-shaped structure, approximately 33 feet long, buried six and a half feet deep. It appears to have been filled in with sand after construction and connected to this structure is a deeper, highly resistive anomaly. The researchers don't know what the deeper structure's contents are, suggesting it could be empty or filled with materials like sand or gravel. So they believe this points to the possibility of the presence of archaeological remains. They have plans to excavate it further, which as we've said will probably take a long time, the L-shape cannot be created in natural geological structures. Peter Der Manuelian, an Egyptologist at Harvard University not involved in the research, noted that the vacant area had previously avoided exploration and that while Giza has some above-graved L-shaped offering chapels, the underground anomaly is worthy of further exploration. So this is completely unrelated to Corrado Malanga and Filippo Biondi's work using the synthetic aperture radar, but that's an important note that they found something right there. They're saying something is there. That's the credible source of the Smithsonian. They're using GPR and they're using a different kind of tomography, but they're saying something is there and that's like, okay, that's okay. Whatever they're saying is true. And by the way, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be more respected or believed. Just making an observation that, and it's something that we, I think, mentioned earlier for us is that we know that ancient sites have structures beneath them because ancient sites and every single one that we've ever covered on this show, even the really ancient ones like Pumapunku and Gobekli Tepe, there's always something underneath the thing they built. There's always something down there. Well, yeah. And usually it remains undiscovered until people are allowed to poke around. And it reminded me of the Moai. Oh, right. Yes. My friend Tommy mentioned that. I almost left that out. I'm so glad you brought that up. He'd have been mad at me. No, I remember you mentioned that earlier today. It's like, yeah, you're right. There's whole figures. There's the rest of the body. Yes. What's the rest of the story? Underneath the ground and that, if you ask the indigenous people there, they'll say, how did you get these statues there? Well, they walk there themselves. Yeah. And it's like, nah, he used pulleys and ropes and logs, right? Yeah. Come on. That's how you get it. Yes. I don't think we know at this point how they got there, but it seems that, yeah, you can maybe move some of it. It doesn't explain everything. Right. Now that I'm saying that these things came to life, but why not entertain the magical to a degree? And then there were also people who had a story, as I mentioned earlier, about, I think it was two twin brothers, perhaps, that arrived from over the sea, from over the water, to instruct the people and kind of kickstart their civilization again after some great disaster when they had lost all the knowledge and, you know, were on the verge of extinction. These people show up, but again, they're not saying they're spacemen. They're just saying that some strangers showed up, other human beings, or maybe other people from the area, but not people from the island and had the knowledge to say, okay, these are the lost, forgotten ways. This is how you're going to get back on track. Right. So again, they're also part of this world global narrative of ancient knowledge being restored or kept and then brought forth when it was needed, when the chips were really down. And not saying that it's any one, it's not saying they're Western Europeans or this and that, but just strangers. Yeah, it's coming from a smart neighbor who lives somewhere we've never been, and is that Is that a place we've never been on this planet, or is it somewhere else? Curious strangers, ancient aliens say yes. Yeah, yeah. So, but the idea is that it's somebody who seems peculiar to them, but humanoid, unless I guess you're Viracocha, then you're more godlike. Viracocha's cool. I mean, Viracocha's one of the coolest dudes we've ever come across. He didn't come down from the heavens. And so ancient China, and is it the first, the yellow emperor flying around on a dragon, delivering knowledge and getting people back on track. So the Egyptians also have a form of this legend, and could it be possible that the pyramids are even grander than we think? Well, why not? Yeah. Let's say they had the way out knowledge and technology to build those things in the first place, which I'm not convinced we still know, and I don't think it's ramps and logs. And it's a lot of people, yeah. But ramps, logs, a lot of grease, not so sure. Even floating, that was one theory proposed that they had channels built, little canals, and they would float the blocks up there. Well, still not satisfying to me. So these people around this time, what we know is that the pyramids are there. They built these things somehow, still don't know. You know what else we know? There's pyramids all over the world. Well, yes. From different cultures that don't seem like they knew each other. No, and we're still, and with LiDAR, we're discovering more and more all the time. That's right. In unexpected places. And so, and check out Ancient Apocalypse, because it's fascinating. And I think it's fairly level-headed, even though the ideas might be controversial. It's worth a look. It's beautiful cinematography. Just check it out. But it sparks the imagination and the ideas, and that's what I like about it. And that's circling back around to the beginning. And that's why I want to check this out, because I want to know what's going on. Is there something that could be explored further? And what are the implications? Well, again, I think the pyramids are one of the great wonders of the world. Amazing that they did that. Is it any more amazing that there's a massive structure underneath it that they were also somehow able to figure out how to engineer and build? It's not that much more of a stretch to me. For me, it depends on how deep a hole they had to dig. Well, yeah. Then what'd you do with the sand? I mean, if it's like truly like a kilometer, I'm like, I don't know about that. That's a deep hole. It's a deep hole. But again, they still don't know how they built Pumapunku and Tiwanaku and how they got those. It's just the world is full of these things. The mainstream scientific viewpoint stops at a certain point. It's like, well, we don't know. And it ends there. And that's fair. But what I would say is like, listen to the indigenous peoples, take in their myths and legends and consider the impossible or the seemingly impossible and let the wonder of it be. So to the point you just made, when you consider the three gentlemen behind this report in this study, Corrado, Malanga, Filippi Biondi, and Armando May, you're looking at folks that are putting forth a theory that the world is looking down on because they're using new technology and the latest statements that they're made haven't been peer reviewed yet, which is really just, I think, the rest of the world and the scientists who are like, okay, it's a slap on the hand. It's like, you just relax. We need time to examine this. By the same token, and we've talked about this on the show before, and we've even had scientists on the show before. I'm pretty sure that Dr. Avi Loeb said the same thing about being surprised at how many people were not willing as scientists to be more open-minded and think outside the box. And you come back to, it's the most basic example. It's almost a cliche. But you come back to Galileo and the Galileo Affair, where he came out and he said, you know what? Copernicus was right. The sun's in the middle. It's not us. And he was branded a heretic and put under house arrest for the rest of his life and lambasted by the Catholic Church for even suggesting such a thing now that every single person on the planet knows, even the people that think the earth is flat, right? Don't they think the sun's in the middle? I don't know. Maybe not. Well, he still fared better than Giordano Bruno from the 1600s here. What was it? Born 1548, burned at the stake in 1600. February, an Italian philosopher. That's right. Astrologer. He was a cosmological theorist. He believed that the stars were distant suns themselves. Not just, we just didn't have one sun, but the stars were also suns. That's crazy talk. Maybe there were planets of those stars. Yeah. And maybe other beings lived there. And for that, they didn't dig that. The Roman Inquisition got him and he was branded a heretic and burned alive. So ideas are dangerous. And it turns out though, his ideas weren't dangerous. The people that didn't like the ideas were dangerous to him. All right. So now we're at the point of the show where people probably care the least about. But what do you think is going on here? What is this story about? Like, what did they find? Did they find anything? Do you think there's any credibility to this story here? Well, I'll tell you what I think. I love looking into stuff like this. And again, we don't do topical stuff so often. It'll be interesting to see how this show ages when it gets into our back catalog in a couple of years and people come back and look at it or we do and think, wait, okay, what happened here? Because when you first sent it to me and my friends were sending it to me, I was just like, this is too sensationalistic. I'm caught in a clickbait algorithm. It's coming up everywhere, every source. People are putting opus clip versions of it on Instagram with misspelled words. And by the way, try harder, people. Like these programs that make the viral clips for you for all the platforms, they're super easy to use. Maybe try a little harder with the titles. No, it's the people that, no, the notifications I get on the phone of so-and-so broke their silence. Like, I'm tired of all this broken silence. And no, I can't believe who did what for silence. Digging into this was kind of a revelation for me. And it was a pleasant one because I was pretty convinced that it was complete BS. And to have gone down into it and look at it closer and find out, for example, that the paper that came out in 2022 was peer-reviewed and it makes some very valid points. And having looked at the pretty pictures in it, I think that it makes sense, the technique they're using. I can't read the math formulas. But it's a real paper. And now they're coming back and they're saying, you know what, these are our conclusions here. A couple of years later, it took us this long to figure it out, but here's what they are. And even though that's not peer-reviewed yet, these people are real educated academics with experience and they seem to have some level of sophisticated knowledge, which I'm not even well-educated enough to judge. But I was less sure that the whole thing was made up clickbait from a questionable source after I looked at it, even though Snopes is calling it false. And I do think that a lot of scientists and researchers are really set in their ways and they get afraid to get out of their lane at all when it comes to thinking outside the box. But I don't see what the real harm is in applying this new technology to these techniques. We have already seen LiDAR reveal completely lost hidden cities in the jungles. If there is a new technique here that Biondi has developed that is allowing us to ascertain things that we not only didn't know about, but probably can't reasonably excavate indefinitely or possibly ever due to a threat to the existing structures, like, why not try? Why not apply that? And why not try? But I also respect Dr. Hawass' opinion about the ownership of the narrative and what's going on there. And also, if he says research has already been done on what's underneath the pyramids, and where I'm telling you there's no columns there because we did X, Y, and Z, I'm not the person to argue with him on that. I will say that I am more believing of it than I expected to be by the time we got through this episode. Okay. I'll buy that. This has happened a few other times. No, I love it when this happens because it's, I love it when it happens to me is that when your expectations are turned on their head or just altered it up, it's like, you know what, we went into this thinking like maybe there's a, well, there's probably nothing to this. Entombed in Zorichina. That sounds pretty fantastic. And then you start finding out the people involved. And I know there's some maybe classism involved. It's like, okay, it's a Eastern European country. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they don't have it all together. You know what I'm saying? Like to put this much effort and money and the government resources into something that is something a psychic said. So that there's something in the ground that's intelligent and mysterious. Again, back into the ground and that maybe we should check this out. So I applaud them for that. Even if it was a kind of a folly, I happen to think that there was enough there to warrant checking it out. I mean, come on, what else are you doing? Come on. Right. Why not spend a little time and energy? But I do like these stories where I'm trying to think of another one. Do you remember one off the top of your head where you were pleasantly surprised, let's say, or your expectations were turned around? It turned out to be much more than you thought it would be. You know, there's a lot of them, Forrest. And by the way, you just mentioned another show. I keep bringing this up, but Entombed in Zarechina. That's another series we did. You should check it out if you can find it. T-S-A-R-I-C-H-I-N-A. We should get these links into the show notes of the episodes we mentioned if you folks haven't heard them. But obviously the first one that really freaked me out was when we covered Skinwalker Ranch way before it was a TV show, way long time ago. Well, Skinwalker Ranch. And then I just remembered, of course, Shadow People, where you thought that was all antihistamine induced. And it turns out that maybe there's more to that. But some of the really ancient ones, or the really old ones too, were shocking to me. Because I'm like, oh, this is just folklore. It's a legend now. It's like, whatever. You find it in a children's book or Grimm's fairy tales. But the Pied Piper, I was surprised how much we dug up when we covered that. And also another one of my favorites was The Beast of Gévaudan. La Bête de Gévaudan. That was a freaky story. The Van Meter Monster too. I was like, what? A pterodactyl? Come on. With a light on its head? Nah. But then you start looking into it. It's like, what is happening? We've covered a lot of stuff. And that's why I love doing this show. I've been blown away by a lot of things that we've covered. But this one was more of a 180 than I expected to make, though. I was more surprised by how this one bore up to a little digging in on it. Again, it's like, you hear, oh, they found a chamber. Or an L-shaped chamber. Like, well, that's pretty cool. That's- Right. They found that and they know what it is. And they, oh, it's filled with sand and debris. Well, that sounds like a Beckley Tappy. Yeah, they did that. They backfilled it. And that should be explored. And I hope they find some artifacts. That'll be cool. And then it's kind of distant until you make a personal connection. And, you know, I don't know if I'll be able to get to Egypt to see all the stuff in person. But just as a side note, where it makes it personal, it seems kind of abstract. I'll relay a quick anecdote here. I think I've told friends, but not maybe on the show for once, that I visited, when I was visiting the museum in Los Angeles that had an exhibit of ancient Egyptian art. And very cool stuff. A lot of stuff made with rattan and just a massive collection. It was a kind of a spectacular deal coming through Los Angeles. I was struck, a little dumbfounded when they had, they had found furniture that belonged to the royal family. And, you know, it's like, well, here's a chair that was owned by the Pharaoh once, or it was made for him. Like, okay, that's pretty cool. And then there was a little tiny chair made out of rattan or wicker. It was lacquered and pretty good craftsmanship. That was impressive. But the, the placard on it said, this was the chair belonging to the granddaughter of the Pharaoh. So that's pretty cool. But what blew me away is that on the arms of this rattan chair, you know, that was varnished and lacquered where her hands would be her little hands. It was worn off. The lacquer, the varnish was worn off. It just made it really human and connected to that moment. It was her little hands, the granddaughter of the Pharaoh 5,000 years ago that wore down that varnish. It wasn't from age or erosion. It was because she sat in that chair so much. And suddenly that made it really human and very personable. And I was, I was taken aback. I was like, you know what I'm saying? That's a connection. Like you can go to a place that's ancient. It's like, whoa, I wonder who put their hands on, on Stonehenge, uh, right here at this, uh, what Druid had his, uh, his, his grimy paws right at this place that I'm putting my hands or who kissed the Blarney stone before me, uh, 300 years ago. But seeing that made it, it was, it was very human. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like suddenly I was connected to somebody who lived 3000 years ago in a royal family in Egypt. And so that's different though. When you see this pyramid, it's like, it's a bunch of rooms and, you know, people, there's spiral passage way down each one of them. And that's okay. Maybe. And then, uh, you know, these buildings and it goes way, way down and it's this monumental thing. And it's all supposition until we really get at it. And I guess what I'm saying is I don't think I have very little hope anyone will really get to the bottom of this pun intended physically to see what's really there anytime soon. Maybe if there's some kind of intervention or something happens, but, uh, I'm not holding out any hope, but it's cool to think about. And that's fine for me. It's enough to keep my wonder going like the wicker chair, just imagining like, oh, what was she like? What was that family like? What would it have been like to have been there? Probably very dangerous if I would have had me killed, but. That's why you don't want to go back in time, folks. Be gone. You'll instantly be dead. Yeah. Just, it, it just made it like, these are people back then who did these things and the people that built, uh, just the pyramid at the time, how to, to see it happening. If I could go back in time and be to stand afar and see how are they actually making this thing? The three of them of this size and what's really underneath them and what's the real purpose. Now that you may not find out as an outsider, because I believe this is all like very sacred architecture that the secrets of it are only known to the few, but built by the many. And we may never know, but it's like, it's pretty cool just to think about and wonder about. So when I saw this story, it's like, well, that's kind of cool. Again, like the L-shaped chamber, that's kind of fascinating. I hope they find something. It's probably a, I'll be disappointed if it's just filled with sand, but still it's pretty cool. It's something undiscovered as of yet that they just found out. And I hope really that they keep making discoveries because I think mainstream archaeology has it right. You, you keep looking, you keep dusting off inch by inch, paintbrush by paintbrush, and it takes a long time, but let's get this right and let's preserve it as much as possible, but also leave room for the, the major leaps in discovery and adventure. And if nothing else, it's like going to the moon, like, yeah, it's expensive. Is it, is it worth anything? A lot of people don't think so that money could be better spent at home on people who are really in need. Do we need to be standing on the moon, planting flags? Well, that's still a big debate now. Is it worth it? And I think at some point it's like, as they would say, it was budgeted for that. You know, we have money set aside just for that. And the reason we do that is that it keeps advancing us and it's something we can all at least collectively in our imaginations enjoy and inspire us. And that maybe that's the purpose, not counting the fact that there's probably a alien bases on the dark side of the moon that aside, just us achieving that goal as a human race is worth something. So I see, let's keep digging under the pyramids. Let's keep discovering new things. Let's be open to new ideas that this could be more magnificent and impossible and wondrous than we could ever imagine. Because that alone is worth something. I've always believed that there is a brave new world out there waiting for us, but not if we lack the bravery to seek the truth. That's going to wrap up episode 307 of Astonishing Legends. The main show is dark next week, but look for new episodes of The Dead Letter Office weekly on Tuesdays. Astonishing Legends is edited by Sarah Voorhees-Wendell at VW Sound. Our co-producer is Tess Feifel, who also leads our research efforts and manages our social media. And we're grateful for the hard work of our technical producer, Ed Vakola, behind the scenes. Special thanks to our announcer, John Boland, for lending his voice to our shows. Hi, my name is Jessamy Barker. Galaxy Wide and Perpetuity. Hi, I'm Christopher Vignot. I understand that this has been no implied promise of present or future. A-M-Y. Galaxy Wide and Perpetuity. Galaxy Wide and Perpetuity. I understand this is with no implied promise of present or future. B-A-R-K-E-R. You said artisanal. You say artisanal. I said artisanal. I go back and forth. Really? Yeah. Okay. All right. Very good. Okay. Here we go. Our theme, which is available as a ringtone, was composed by Judson Crane at FounderMusic.com. All other music and sound design for the show is composed and created by Alan Caressia. Our logo was created by Tommy Beaver Design, and our animated graphics for social media and YouTube are done by Joshua Sloan at DeadStreetProductions.com. Many episodes have transcripts available. For ones that don't, you can request them by emailing transcripts at AstonishingLegends.com. Astonishing Legends would not be possible without you, our listeners. Visit our store at AstonishingLegends.com or interact with us and other listeners on Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, Discord, and YouTube. You can also visit us at Patreon.com slash AstonishingLegends, where patrons have access to commercial-free versions of both the main show and the Dead Letter office, as well as additional bonus content, including the Patreon-exclusive show, The Astonishing Junk Door. No part of this show may be reproduced anywhere without permission. Copyright Astonishing Legends Productions. Good night. Protein bars often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition. If it tastes good, you flip it over only to discover it's made with a whole paragraph of ingredients you've never heard of. Or artificial sweeteners are doing all the heavy lifting. It's basically dessert in disguise. You shouldn't have to choose between tasty and nutritious. And that's what makes Aloha stand out. Aloha protein bars nail the delicious and nutritious. They're USDA organic and made with ingredients that actually grow somewhere. It's their whole taste that grows philosophy. 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